NationStates Jolt Archive

army

Northern Empire

07-01-2005, 12:30

Cahoona

07-01-2005, 12:41

hmm i don't think i'll be knocking on your door!! :sniper: :mp5: :eek:

Endorak

07-01-2005, 15:13

How many countries in the real world have/could sustain that size army?

BTW democracies fight better than totalitarian states.

Lapse

07-01-2005, 15:44

ok, i am as we speak "building" my army, taking different types of units together and wonders what do you find realistic for my nation. i know a lot about military, but not realistic sizes of armies. so i ask you out there, is this realistic:
ground
5.5 million troops in peace time, 16.5 when war arises
10 000 heavy tank
14 000 medium/light tank
22 000 artillery
7 000 APC
4 000 MLRS
8 000 Mortars
air
1 500 MiG - 29 Fighters
1 200 HIND (D) Heli's
300 Chinook(transport heli)
1 Antonov
10 Hercules
400 TU-160 Bombers
sea
9 Akula subs
3 Kirov Destroyers (29 000tons)
1 Stalingrad Battlecruiser (approx 47 000tons)
6 Udaloy Destroyers (8 400tons)

my nation;The Armed Republic of Northern Empire have 122 Million inhabitants, good economy, and spends much money on military.
Short Answer: NO!
Long Answer:
basically, no...

I am nearly a 3.2 billion population nation. I barely have your peace time military in my mobilized military (around 10 Million in defensive circumstances). I do spend alot of my resources on equipment, but I still ensure that I do not go more than a few million in my military during peace time. Some people will not even agree with more than a million in any military regardless of nation size.

To calculate your entire Military, that is, all army, navy, and airforce numbr of people, including all non-combatants, a good rule around 0.5%-1%

although, when younger nations such as yourdelf, it can be permitted occaisionally to have a 2% military IF you have a Thriving, Powerhouse, or frightening economy.

What you should also remember is that if you have 10000 heavy tanks, you need:
around 5 operators per tank + technicians = probably 50,000->60,000
probably a million dollars (could be wrong) or so a year to maintain each one: 10 billion dollars a year
and dont forget logistics:
from what I can see above you have 300 chinooks, and 10 hercules.
I doubt a chinook would be able to carry a tank (once again, could be wrong), and hercules would not be able to carry many if any at all
So you would be looking at naval transport: a specialised tank carrying ship may carry what, a hundred tanks? you will need to make 100 trips, or have 100 boast for taht to work, and then also remember somehow you have to pay for the boat(s), and the maitanence, and the crew, and dont forget that you ill also need to somehow get the pilots of the tanks have to be over there

So, in short, for 10000 tanks, you would need:
50,000-60,000 trained people to operate/technician
10 Billiion dolars a year for maintanance + wages for operators
Transport - lots of boata + maintanace + crews

so basicallly, you could possibly have those tanks, as your entire military

here is a suggested military for you:

55 thousand troops in peace time, 165 thousand when war arises ( you wont need any more than this unlkess you get attacked by a groiup of invaders, and then, people will always jump into teh rp and help you assuming you are playing fairly ;) )
100 heavy tank
140 medium/light tank
220 artillery
70 APC
40 MLRS
800 Mortars (I assume you mean soldier carried mortars?)
air
150 MiG - 29 Fighters
120 HIND (D) Heli's
30 Chinook(transport heli)
1 Antonov
10 Hercules
40 TU-160 Bombers
sea
6 Akula subs
3 Kirov Destroyers (29 000tons)
1 Stalingrad Battlecruiser (approx 47 000tons)
6 Udaloy Destroyers (8 400tons)
5 transport ships of some kind

Although, that may be fairly dodgy in someplaces, but i just cant be bothered looking up all teh details of all of those craft atm

And it has been a while since i have done this, so im not sure how much standard rules have changed...

Also, it is good to see that you are actually checking with people not going around n00king the world with 18964908632047uber nukes...

Endorak

07-01-2005, 22:23

Surely Britian in WW2 had a bigger army than that?

-----------------------------------
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~y0259802/

Join the Democratic Alliance region.

Lapse

08-01-2005, 02:34

Surely Britian in WW2 had a bigger army than that?

-----------------------------------
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~y0259802/

Join the Democratic Alliance region.
i doubt it...
and after world war 2, britain was screwed economicalyy for decades..

Alexias

08-01-2005, 02:39

yah, he's right.

Remember, man, you gotta pay these troops, and pay them WEEKLY.

Northern Empire

08-01-2005, 11:59

thanks for the feedback, the guy i am planning a war with, the community of comunistic scandinavia, got a basket case economy and is mustering like 5 000 T-72's and many, many, many million men. nukes are coward, i have added some SCUD launchers, but they can also high explosive warheads instead of nukes. war is no fun when a nuke arrives and BOOM! blasts the whole area. no fun.. conventional warfare i more fun.. like WW2 warfare.
to defend my military numbers, i use an example:
Soviet 1988:
50 000 Main Battle Tanks(heavy tanks)
3 000 combat airplanes

North Korea 2004:
1 000 000 troops
4 000 000 in reserve
3 800 heavy tanks
15 000 artillery
6 000 Mortars
2 400 MLRS

and the fact that my nation has better economy than those to together should make me able to sustain such an army
the suggested army is in fact smaller than the Norwegian army, and that aint good. but, it also aint fun if fighting with numbers way different, so if i get attacked by a nation with numbers like the suggested ones, then there is no problem, i just scale down my army. but if i am to fight comunistic scandinavia, i need these numbers.. wellwell.. anyway, thanks for the help! nice to find ppl who comes up with an alternative solution instead of just saying: no you dickhead ;)

Northern Empire

08-01-2005, 12:01

i doubt it...
and after world war 2, britain was screwed economicalyy for decades..

during WW2, germany alone sent 2 million troops to Soviet. at stanlingrad alone 165 000 germans were killed, so the armies were larger

Lapse

08-01-2005, 12:46

Okay, ill give you a useful link:
http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=Northern+Empire

that is your nations Economy page. It will tell you the amount of money your government have to spend on things such as military.

on it, it says Defense: $66,179,272,051.20
Which means you have approximatly 66.2 Billion dollars allocated towards your military.

First off:, you will have to pay your soldiers a large amount of money, we will use peace time forces due to teh ridiculouness of teh wartime forces.
5,500,000 * the salary
a standard salary for a soldier is probably at a roungh estimate. $30,000 USD.. for an enlisted
5,500,000*$30,000 = $165 Billion dollars (budget blown already)

and taht is in PEACE TIME!

Secondly, Germany may have had 2 million troops at time y and Britain may have had 087517896527502troops at one stage, BUT current warfare would mean taht that many troops, would be incredibly easy to pick off. Somebody attempted to invade me once, and was using a ridiculous amount of troops, in 1 post, I managed to kill 2 million of his trrops by dropping an anti infantry device taht I have designed, purely because he had so many, all clumped together. If somebody were to drop a nuke into your mass of soldiers, how many would make it out alive? 1-5% at most?

Thirdly, Logistics. There used to be a really great thread about logistics once, but i am not sure if it still exists, basically, it pointed how impossible it would be to get people from point A to Point B en masse.
a troop ship may carry a thousand soldiers.
You have lets say, 1 million to transport, you would need to make 1000 trips, or have 1000 boats, or somthing inbetween, as I said in my last post, you will also need fuel, Supplies, maintanance, and crews for these ships... all of which cost money. and that is only with 1 million troops.

And of course, your country...
You somehow have to keep nyour country alive whilst at war, or else you lose. you have to have your remaining population provide enough food, for not only themselves, but also the soldiers, you wont be able to import if you are blockaded,a dn you wont have any money to if you are not, or things to export due to the lack of people to produce them as they are all at War. Of yoyur 100% population:
16.5 million at war: = 13.5%
36.5% to young or too old for war or work = 36.6 Million
Unemployment Rate: 20.37% =24.85Million
that is atleast 70% of your population unable to work
and other the remaiing 30%:
10% max would be farming or food production
20% would have jobs which dont produce any food or anything: such as Television presenter, or Public serveants

Therefore, 10% of your population would have to produce enough food, oil, vehicles, and all other things required for the war. and they woulod have to supporty the nation not at war

Overall, it would be impossible on many different levels to sustain such a military. You would be lucky, if you could sustain teh military I suggested.

oh, and you don't really ahve a very good economy, a 'good' economy such as yours, is probably less tahn the average nationstate

Your enemy is also a blatant godmoder if he has what you say he says he has ( :confused: :p )
his defense budget is:
Defence: $2,324,863,404.86
2.3 Billion dollars, which with teh rule i gabe you of US$30,000 per troop:
76,666 troops, without anything else in his military, or even weapons for the soldiers. point out to him/her the address:
http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=comunistic+scandinavia
if they do persist with taht sized military, then you can ignore them, and they woudl be labelled a godmoder. DO NOT try to match his army if you care about your reputation to the rest of teh world, or you will just get labeled a godmoder aswell.

If you are not sure what I am talking about with a godmoder, read the stickies at the top of the international incidents forum.

Lapse

08-01-2005, 12:49

to defend my military numbers, i use an example:
Soviet 1988:
50 000 Main Battle Tanks(heavy tanks)
3 000 combat airplanes

And to rebut your military numbers:
Soviet 2004:
BANKRUPT!

;)

Alexias

08-01-2005, 13:51

North Korea: Population 22 million.

1,000,000 standing army

21 million people starving.

Economy is a piece of shit, pretty much barter and trade.

Northern Empire

08-01-2005, 13:52

Okay, ill give you a useful link:
http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=Northern+Empire

that is your nations Economy page. It will tell you the amount of money your government have to spend on things such as military.

on it, it says
Which means you have approximatly 66.2 Billion dollars allocated towards your military.

First off:, you will have to pay your soldiers a large amount of money, we will use peace time forces due to teh ridiculouness of teh wartime forces.
5,500,000 * the salary
a standard salary for a soldier is probably at a roungh estimate. $30,000 USD.. for an enlisted
5,500,000*$30,000 = $165 Billion dollars (budget blown already)

and taht is in PEACE TIME!

Secondly, Germany may have had 2 million troops at time y and Britain may have had 087517896527502troops at one stage, BUT current warfare would mean taht that many troops, would be incredibly easy to pick off. Somebody attempted to invade me once, and was using a ridiculous amount of troops, in 1 post, I managed to kill 2 million of his trrops by dropping an anti infantry device taht I have designed, purely because he had so many, all clumped together. If somebody were to drop a nuke into your mass of soldiers, how many would make it out alive? 1-5% at most?

Thirdly, Logistics. There used to be a really great thread about logistics once, but i am not sure if it still exists, basically, it pointed how impossible it would be to get people from point A to Point B en masse.
a troop ship may carry a thousand soldiers.
You have lets say, 1 million to transport, you would need to make 1000 trips, or have 1000 boats, or somthing inbetween, as I said in my last post, you will also need fuel, Supplies, maintanance, and crews for these ships... all of which cost money. and that is only with 1 million troops.

And of course, your country...
You somehow have to keep nyour country alive whilst at war, or else you lose. you have to have your remaining population provide enough food, for not only themselves, but also the soldiers, you wont be able to import if you are blockaded,a dn you wont have any money to if you are not, or things to export due to the lack of people to produce them as they are all at War. Of yoyur 100% population:
16.5 million at war: = 13.5%
36.5% to young or too old for war or work = 36.6 Million
Unemployment Rate: 20.37% =24.85Million
that is atleast 70% of your population unable to work
and other the remaiing 30%:
10% max would be farming or food production
20% would have jobs which dont produce any food or anything: such as Television presenter, or Public serveants

Therefore, 10% of your population would have to produce enough food, oil, vehicles, and all other things required for the war. and they woulod have to supporty the nation not at war

Overall, it would be impossible on many different levels to sustain such a military. You would be lucky, if you could sustain teh military I suggested.

oh, and you don't really ahve a very good economy, a 'good' economy such as yours, is probably less tahn the average nationstate

Your enemy is also a blatant godmoder if he has what you say he says he has ( :confused: :p )
his defense budget is:

2.3 Billion dollars, which with teh rule i gabe you of US$30,000 per troop:
76,666 troops, without anything else in his military, or even weapons for the soldiers. point out to him/her the address:
http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=comunistic+scandinavia
if they do persist with taht sized military, then you can ignore them, and they woudl be labelled a godmoder. DO NOT try to match his army if you care about your reputation to the rest of teh world, or you will just get labeled a godmoder aswell.

If you are not sure what I am talking about with a godmoder, read the stickies at the top of the international incidents forum.

okay... i see.. humm well... seems like i need to rearrange my army.. anyway, we will probably fight a war with these armies, and recalculate for other cirumstances. we go to the same school, and this war will be fought outside NS.. we will sit with pen and paper somewhere ;) i do not wish to be labelled a godmoder(or whatever), because i really try to play fair. i know about military tactics, equipment etc, but not expenses, realistic numbers etc. all i know is that the norwegian army has 450 000 troops.. hehe...and by the way.. how do i get down the consumption? they consume to much money :P

Lapse

08-01-2005, 14:12

lol, there might be a sticky in the Got Issues? forum which has that kidn of thing in it, but i can't tell you off hand sorry.