NationStates Jolt Archive

My latest rant, is about one sided conflicts. It runs along the same vein as the thread about RPing is for fun.
I am seeing a conflict evolve, between Acre Union, and the Ottoman Alliance... again. Now yes, Acre Union started it, he shouldn't have. You have no argument with me there.
However.... he declared war on the Ottoman Alliance. There is no justification for an ally of an ally of somebody who knows someone in the OA to join in. It should be OA Vs Acre Union and allies.
This is just an example, one of many. RPing is for fun, not for taking over land. How fun can you honestly expect an RP like this to be if its 20 V 1?
Its like buying a game then inserting the cheat to finish all levels. You can say you finished, but it won't have been any fun, because you just cheated.
This is said repeatedly on these forums, i'll say it again. RPing here is for fun, it isn't a competition of who can take over the most land. So please, if you're planning to have a conflict, try and make it at least vaguely entertaining.

For some, it's fun seeing how much land you can take.

I dont think that actually happened, Sanct, with the OA example. However I do agree with your sentiment.

I dont think that actually happened, Sanct, with the OA example. However I do agree with your sentiment.
You don't?
Here's the list so far:

OA side:
Celtayoshi
Hataria
Praetonia
Ottoman Khaif
Guffingford
Greenmanbry
Independent Hitmen
Thrashia

AU side:
Acre Union
Roman Republic


8 V 2. Not bad at all, and it should make for one hell of an RP. Also, lets wait and see who else pops up, this list will continue to be updated, until the conflict.

Umm... Sanctaphrax...

If you care to notice, everyone who went to war with AU in the first and second incidents WAS a member of the Ottoman Alliance..

Now, the exact same thing is happening.. but with Hataria as well.. so what's the problem??

We DON'T want the land.. believe me.. most of us aren't in it for the land.. we just want the guy to leave us alone. If you have an parasite bugging the hell out of you, you try to crush it. It's as simple as that. Now why don't you understand that?..

We just want him to leave us the hell alone, and give us compensation for the mobilizations that we made to subdue his forces.. war isn't a cheap thing, you know? Let him pay up, and shut up. And we'll do the same thing. Deal?

You go ahead and talk to him. He doesn't want to talk to anyone involved with the OA. He just posts one-line declarations and disappears. You should counsel HIM about RPing, not us.

BTW, just saw your list..

Guffingford isn't helping the OA.. Guff is there for the land.. so okey, your points are valid for him, at least.

The last two times everyone in the conflict was actually in the OA. The OA was just huge. Anyway this is what I have to say on the general subject of dogpiles:

1) People are RPing realistically. In real life if, say, Micronesia (a tiny little island chain in the Pacific) bombed a NATO country, NATO would pwn it. They wouldnt sit back and think "well this war wouldnt be very fun so we'll just get Turkey to do the invasion but use only some of their military to make it fair" they'd think "You attacked us for no reason - regime change! Also, in order to keep casualties low we'll use all our strength to overwhelm you."

2) N00bs dont RP realistically. Instead of dog-piling and pwning them it's best to teach them to RP, because they're unlikely to start a new nation and try to RP properly. They'll just give up an leave.

Acre Union is different. He has been destroyed twice, has come back, and DONE EXACTLY THE SAME THING AGAIN. This does not deserve compassion,

People that right one or two sentence replies in posts bore me. It's no fun to say *insert nation name here* prepares for war. Get detailed. Describe how you prepared for war. Put some names in there to give it some flavor.

Prae, your point is valid, but you're forgetting one thing, this is for fun. This isn't RL, nobody actually gets bombed. Fun, is 1 V 1. 2 V 1 but this, 7 V 2 and i'm assuming not everyone has shown up yet, this isn't fun. Like I said, this should be OA only, i.e Guff and Hataria out, versus AU and a reasonable amount of allies to make it a fun war. Examine NS, and you'll find the best threads have been balanced, ganging up on a nation isn't fun for anyone.

Ladies and gentlemen, an update. Thrashia has joined in, guess on who's side?

Prae, your point is valid, but you're forgetting one thing, this is for fun. This isn't RL, nobody actually gets bombed. Fun, is 1 V 1. 2 V 1 but this, 7 V 2 and i'm assuming not everyone has shown up yet, this isn't fun. Like I said, this should be OA only, i.e Guff and Hataria out, versus AU and a reasonable amount of allies to make it a fun war. Examine NS, and you'll find the best threads have been balanced, ganging up on a nation isn't fun for anyone.
I play this game to realistically portray a realistic nation. I find that fun.

I myself do not RP for expansion (although it is something that I do occasionally on the Earths and Farbini) but to expand the name of Sochism and all Osea nations out there. Kinda like Soviet Russia invading everyone and reistablishing their governments to communism.

Yes, I will admit that I myself play some expansion RPs, but what good is a nation that sits around and just has wars? To me it is not reailistic if I don't keep the majority of the land after a war, even if it did not start of an expansion war. Moving in, killing them off, and rebuilding them/leaving is not my idea of warfare, but running in, blowing them to hell, and then taking thier land and money. Maybe let them live in the world scared for life and economically destroyed.

Why I put this post down is just one of my insights, but yes, I do agree with you. Too many expansion wars around here (slaps own wrist).

The Ottoman Alliance is a defensive alliacne which was setup in order to protect national interests. In the first two cases of war the Acre Union attacked or threatened to attack one of the Ottoman Alliance nations. Now, according to the Ottoman Alliance constitution members must defend that nation. The whole point of an alliance is to give a larger force in situations like this, and also to prevent situations like this.

Acre Union knows he si going to fight a whole alliance, so he either doesn't fight at all, or he prepares to fight larger numbers. If on the other hand Acre union had a valid reason to attack the OA, then other nations would rally to his side and help fight the OA, thus evening things.

I was referring more to the fact that they're relying purely on weight of numbers, rather than RPing skill. If you beat a nation, 1 on 1, well done. You can keep his land, you took it. But its just no fun, 8 on 2. There's no challenge, nothing that would make it an interesting RP. I look at some of the nations in the list, Prae and Guff for example, and I think, what the hell are they doing here? They RP to a much higher standard than these two, it surely isn't challenging or fun for them, so why bother?

Well what about AMF's smackdowns? No one ever criticises them. I dont see why you keep defending that warmonger (AU), Sanct.

Well what about AMF's smackdowns? No one ever criticises them. I dont see why you keep defending that warmonger (AU), Sanct.
I'm not defending him, i'm attacking you. If I had been defending him, I wouldnt have sold Thrashia weapons just now, I wouldn't have sent AU a TG telling him to back down.
I personally don't read AMF's threads, as they very rarely have anything to do with me. An RP should be between two groups of nations, relevant to the RP. Thrashia, Guff and Hataria need to go as they have no connection to the OA.

Whatever Sanct. I dont have the energy to argue anymore.

Meh.. and by the way, another nation just joined :D

Which just shows that our side is not the wrong one in this conflict.

Thrashia? I already added him to the list.
Prae, I can hardly be bothered to argue as well, but this just seems like the most pointless war I have ever seen.

In the interest of fairness, how about I randomly join in on AU's side, despite having decided to attempt to scare him out of it yesterday. In can see it now... an entire alliance against Fluffywuffy. That is, if I join in.

Sanct, while I agree that RPs in general are supposed to tell a story and be fun, people who pick fights with a large group of nations have no right to bitch when they're gang raped. Now, if this were a planned RP it would be something else entirely. Hogsweat and I are planning a war and one of the things he's going to do would bring AMF and the rest of NATO down on his head if it weren't planned.]

In the interest of fairness, how about I randomly join in on AU's side, despite having decided to attempt to scare him out of it yesterday. In can see it now... an entire alliance against Fluffywuffy. That is, if I join in.
That's something that really annoys me. A group of people are having a war that has history and a back story, and then some massive ********[EDIT: Uber-1337) nation jumps in on the underdog side for no reason whatsoever.

A polite no would have been better. ;) At least I asked, rather than invaded for no reason.

If you beat a nation, 1 on 1, well done. You can keep his land, you took it.


I don't want his land, I want him to stop threatening the Ottoman Alliance.

Celtayoshi, just ignore him then. He obviously won't stop of his own accord.
SS- He picked a fight with the Ottoman Alliance, that is my point, only the OA need get involved. Hataria, Guff, Thrashia have no reason to be there. It should be only OA against AU and a reasonable amount of allies.

Not looking at the other points, its hardly cheating. Its more like playing the game superpower 2. Just because you are america, and fight maybe haiti, its not cheating, though haiti would get pissed if nobody helped it. Same thing, if germany attacked france, and NATO gang-wanked it, it wouldnt be cheating. Some nations are stronger than others. Not every fight should be equal odds, otherwise its always the same thing. Whoever takes Acre Union should rp with Acre when they lose, let Acre play as the insurgency, or maybe cooperate to make a new government. The ends justify the means, though I agree if the conquerer just kills off the population and burns the land, thats not very nice nor fun.

A massive one-sided fight (or ganging up, or smackdown, or whatever else you want to call it) is not, in and of itself, a bad thing. However, if not done properly, which it often isn't, it frequently turns into a flame war, which is a very bad thing. We don't need OOC hostility here.

Before such a confrontation occurs, the situation should be accepted by both sides, and it would be best to provide some rules or guidelines to keep things in line. If it goes like that, all the power to anyone on the receiving end. They get my respect just for being there at least semi-voluntarily. If it's not, someone will not find it fun, and it should be stopped right there before that hostility sets in.

That's my two cents.

A polite no would have been better. ;) At least I asked, rather than invaded for no reason.
:/ I wrote "uber 1337" and it *s is out. Weird... anyway I was refering to other nations as well, not just you.

Right:

I suggusted this and got this accepted as RWC Defensive Policy:

Defensive responses should be limited to a few players unless in extreme circumstances. However, logistical and economic aid are unlimited.

This effectively keeps the RP's managable and hopefully enjoyable for all.

Unfortunately many alliances still seem to want to 'lay the smackdown' on anybody who dares interfere with them. Dogpiles are not the way forward, Managable defensive actions are.

If you want loads of players divide it into fronts otherwise it's going to get stupid.

Seriously, people need to stop dogpiling...

Only my thoughts on the matter :D

You don't?
Here's the list so far:

OA side:
Celtayoshi
Hataria
Praetonia
Ottoman Khaif
Guffingford
Greenmanbry
Independent Hitmen
Thrashia

AU side:
Acre Union
Roman Republic


8 V 2. Not bad at all, and it should make for one hell of an RP. Also, lets wait and see who else pops up, this list will continue to be updated, until the conflict.

OOC:All but three of those are OA, and therefore im not entirely sure about their actual allowance!

However there is a valid point to this thread, altho perhaps AMF vs Macabees might have been a better example!

EDIT: And i am not a coward, when the OA invaded AU last year I was going to invade with them, however i saw how badly he was outnumbered and simply didnt. However AU says he has all these gorilla groups yet i havnt actually seen any RPing as them. (Attacks on supplu convoys, isolated garrisions etc)

Just to throw in my two cents(which no one cares about), I find the funnest wars are civil wars.

Stop bragging SS =P

uber l337

Anyway, meh.

Stop bragging SS =P

uber l337

Anyway, meh.
The uber and the 1337 have to be connected. Example:

********
uberleet (will that do it?)

uberl337

Ch3at3r!11! u use a |!!1!!

Acre Union will be nothing but a Hole in the ground after I am done with Him.

I think one-sided conflicts sometimes come with the territory in NS. You can't tell me there haven't been one-sided wars IRL (the one the U.K. fought that ended in less than an hour comes to mind).

I don't think sheer numbers tells the whole story about whether a war on NS is fair or not. I'd like my chances in a war against five or six newb countries that really don't know much about RP, but I wouldn't want to take on Melkor Unchained without a posse if I were worried about losing my country. If you have a reasonably sized military and you're a skilled combat RPer, you can overcome size differences or numbers overmatches.

....... If you have a reasonably sized military and you're a skilled combat RPer, you can overcome size differences or numbers overmatches.

Not only that, but A skilled combat RP'er will include things like the fact your nation might be fighting for their homes, ect. These things can make a difference in anyconflic, let alone a one-sided one (that's my 2nd two cents).

Not only that, but A skilled combat RP'er will include things like the fact your nation might be fighting for their homes, ect. These things can make a difference in anyconflic, let alone a one-sided one (that's my 2nd two cents).
Yes, that is very true. Just look at the Soviet's in WWII.

And Sarzonia, how about WWII as a one sided conflict? Look at the U.K against Germany and Italy's empire in 1940. What chance did we stand? And by god, we sent the Nazi's running with their tails behnd their legs!

I don't think sheer numbers tells the whole story about whether a war on NS is fair or not. I'd like my chances in a war against five or six newb countries that really don't know much about RP.
So would I, if they declared war on me, they would pay. But this isn't five or six newb nations. This is Prae, Guff, Celtayoshi, Greenmanbry. Together with their other allies I assume they have about 10X the population of AU and RR.

You know I'm actually helping AU now...

Makes a big difference you know? ;)

You know I'm actually helping AU now...

Makes a big difference you know? ;)
Not really advisable. You arent too big...

Not really advisable. You arent too big...

I'm not, but I'm not doing bad right now.