NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, this is the 'hub' thread, I suppose, to keep everything in order.

Pre-War (Marching To Armageddon) - http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=383111&highlight=marching+armageddon

OOC War Preparations (Nations At War) - http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=383122&page=3&highlight=marching+armageddon

Central Powers Conference- (A Week In Budapest)
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=384030&highlight=Cynthia

Balkans and Middle Eastern Campaign (The Guns of August) - http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=385466

Far Eastern Front (The Rising Sun) - http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7819994#post7819994

Western Front (Seasons in the Abyss) -
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=385760&highlight=Abyss

the Russians are going to sea.... I will game out the battle of Tsushima tomorrow .... any other navy action?

What is the British Hannover fleet doing, and what is the British Navy doing? I would assume the British China squadron will move to support the Japanese with the British, Australian and British Hannoverian cruisers moving out to sea zones to look for raiders. British Hannover has one battleship in the Pacific, will it join up with the British squadron (which will take nearly the entire 3 month turn for it to reach the British squadron in Japanese waters) or will it stay home to guard Puget Sound (my suggestion).

Gunboats are dead meat against any real combat ships, so I suggest they remain near bases.

In the Black Sea the Russians are going to try to run the Dardenelles from the Black Sea side before the Turks have time to mine it (trying to reach the capital and force the Turks to surrender early). The Turkish fleet will intercept and a battle will erupt in the Black Sea. The Russian Med squadron is currently visiting Greece, and it runs for the Italian base at Taranto (I assume the British will try to intercept with their own cruisers). Should be a battle there too in other words.

to get the US in the war a Russian Cruiser squadron is going to run into an American cruiser squadron and convoy and mistakenly identify them as British Hannover ships (based on the real life incident when the Russians opened fire on British fishing boats in the Dogger Bank because they thought they were Japanese torpedo boats.... a staggering bit of ineptitude, and Markarov can't be everywhere)

The US begins mobilizing for war after the declaration is passed.

In the Pacific the US puts together a provisional division in Hawaii consisting of an Army Division HQ, 2 Army infantry regiments, and 2 Marine regiments (division size of 28,000 men.... during World War 1 the US had bigger divisions than everyone else in real life)... it has enough shipping for it as well. This leaves an infantry brigade, coast defense unit and 2 Marine regiments in Hawaii (basically a reinforced division sized unit).

The Navy can move all of that, and this is what the Americans will use for their initial offensive operations. All other garrisons are at full strength and remain in garrison for now.

The Army and Marine units at home will require months before they are ready to go as all were below strength, and it will take time to get them ready. Some regular units will be reduced to a cadre to provide additional troops to fill out National Guard units, while others will fill up with wartime volunteers and eventually conscripts (the US immediately puts a Conscription Bill through Congress which will pass).

Coast Artillery NG divisions are easier and they immediately are sent to their assigned garrisons.

Basically, within 6 months, the US will have an army of 20 Infantry Divisions (large sized), 10 Cavalry regiments, 1 mountain infantry regiment, and 6 Corps headquarters that it can send overseas (1 million men) and 2 Army headquarters as well. In addition, several Marine regiments are also available and will be formed up into brigades. The US will operate under its own command as a equal co bellegerent with the Japanese and British (and eventually French).

some Cavalry will also be available to remain at home (to watch the Mexican Border) and additional divisions can be raised from Central America (about 6 within a year) which would be ideal for service in Africa or the Philippines later on.

But in the short run, the US can't deploy a really large army yet.

Okay, I believe the British are going to try and intercept your Russian squadron with some cruisers. The British Hannoveran Atlantic fleet is probably going to focus, along with the Pacific fleet, on protecting the sealanes from raiders. Meanwhile, British smaller fleets everywhere, along with colonial garrisons are getting ready to seize German colonies as soon as the Germans declare war.

the Americans are sending 4 light cruisers to intercept the Russians as they run for Vladivostok (probably catch them just north of Hokkaido). The British would probably send a similar number of protected cruisers to do the same, holding their armored cruisers and battleships to fight alongside the Japanese in the Yellow Sea.

ooc
waiting for next Japanese post.....

Sounds about right. And yeah, I'm waiting on a French post to unleash the dogs of war too.

comments on naval action so far?

Poor Russians, lol. But the system looks like it works well enough. I'm interested to see how the big battle in the Pacific goes.

the big battle in the Pacific (the Battle of Tsushima) has been gamed out and was a severe German and Russian defeat, especially since Markarov was killed and he was the principal driving force for the Russian fleet.

laid out the naval balance in the Pacific, Atlantic and Med, including probably deployments (feel free to adjust if needed)

Conscription is passed in the United States.... the Selective Service Act...

first year goal is to have an army of 1 million men, including the regulars, national guard and inductees..

Of course this will take a while to train, equip and then ship, so don't expect to see many US troops sent overseas for a while. However, the US also begins recruiting regiments from Central America and Puerto Rico for service overseas, which is also a lengthy process.

The US quickly runs into expansion problems as its industry isn't set up for war production, which makes the actual delays even longer

in Russia, internal problems are already starting. The massive deployment of millions of men to the south, as well as mobilization, is delaying the transportation of food from the country side to the cities, causing a rise in prices. Russia still has a relatively primitive transportation system and the railroads are the only reliable system.

The Grand Duke takes over as regent, and quickly realizes that STAVKA is running the show. He realizes that he lacks the power to deal with them yet, but also realizes that the nation is dangerously close to having serious unrest. He makes the argument that sending troops to deal with rioters will be a bigger disruption to the war effort than cutting back the Army's use of the railroads, and so the Army finally agrees. This slows the pace of reinforcements to deal with Japan, and for now means that no Russian assistance will be available to help the Germans in the West.

The Grand Duke also quietly makes contact with the leadership of democratic organizations and lets them know that he favors a constitutional monarchy and end to Authoritarianism and Military Dictatorship.

The Italians will attack Britain in Egypt. They will also support the German attack on France.

Japan is going to continue to advance through Korea and into Manchuria. More men will be shipped out to help the advance. A small party of elite soldiers will infiltate the Russian lines and do their best to disrupt the Russian supply lines.

Japan is going to continue to advance through Korea and into Manchuria. More men will be shipped out to help the advance. A small party of elite soldiers will infiltate the Russian lines and do their best to disrupt the Russian supply lines.

to make life simple, I would suggest we just follow the flow of events from the actual Russo-Japanese War

http://www.xenophongi.org/milhist/modern/russowar.htm

not counting the naval events of course (since the Russians won't be sending a fleet from Europe this time)

what happened to the French? and is the French player interested in handling the Confederate States of America too?

I don't know, and it's a little paralyzing for Germany.

bump.... and a delay for me.... computer crashed at home and had to completely reinstall all of my software and still working on getting DSL back up

the news of the capture of northern Persia is a bright spot in the war so far, and goes far to negate the bad news of Tsushima.

The fact that resistance was weak is cheerfully ignored.

need a couple of pieces of information for the naval war....

German fleet is ready to fight in both the Med and North Sea... is the Italian fleet ready to go as well?

In the Med, I would expect that the Italians would move to engage the French Fleet, with the German battleships grouped with them, and meanwhile, the German, Italian and Russian cruisers would make a run at the French transports moving troops from North Africa to southern France.

Germany indicates ready to go, the Russians are ready to go, but are the French and Italians ready to go?

due to computer problems at home, if I don't hear from you in a few hours I won't be able to do anything until monday (unless I some how can get by DSL hardware driver to work)

I'm reday to go

OOC> Uber huge battles coming up.

bump.

the bloodbath that is World War I is definitely occuring on land and sea... see the various threads as I post battle results (Jutland already posted)

bump

August and September fighting resolved on the relevent threads....

lots of casualties (what else would you expect in World War I) and plans are beginning to derail on both sides

end of turn 1 War At Sea (July - September)
Three major battles bigger than Trafalgar, with the Japanese winning decisively in the Pacific, and a draw in the North Sea and Central Med as the Germans manage to send out cruisers into the Atlantic and the Combined fleet gets cruisers into the West Med and seizes control of that area.

Plus minor actions between Allied and Central Powers cruisers with mixed results, and a shocking Italian/German victory in the West Med

Turn 2 begins in October, with Germans having fleets at Walvis Bay, Rabuel, the North Sea, and Naples, the Italians having fleets in Naples and Taranto, the Russians having control over the Black Sea (as the Turks are on the defensive) and a mixed Russian/German fleet owns the Baltic.

The Allies still control the North Sea (as their fleet is battle ready and the German one isn't), have locked up the Russians in an hopeless position at Port Arthur, and the Allies are scrambling to put together a fleet to deal with the Central Powers in the Med and regain control of that sea.

Plus deal with the German fleets in Rabuel and Walvis Bay.

Montreal Conference- http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=388422

ooc
its time for the Germans to bring out the Zepplins I would think,.... at least a couple for observation purposes.

OOC> Oh yes. *grin* How long till I can start putting machine guns and bombs in them?

OOC> Oh yes. *grin* How long till I can start putting machine guns and bombs in them?

pretty much instantly

sent an email and telegram with current Western Front situation (including a map)

Then I'll probably just stick the weapons on there to start. I've been wanting to pull them out for a bit now. :)

I am getting to start the next round of combat.... Schleffien Plan part 2 (mid Oct until mid Nov when it runs out of gas or wins), more naval action everywhere, fighting in Manchuria (the seige of Port Arthur), further fighting in Thrace, Armenia and continued Russian occupation of Persia, US conquest of German island possessions....

However, need some information.... does the British Empire intend to move immediately on German Africa or wait until troops are available to spare; do the British intend to do something about the Russian occupation of Persia (some Indian Army troops in Bandar Abbas might be good)... where do the Brits plan to send the ANZACS (use them in the Pacific first or send them to Egypt right away or a mixed course of action)...do the British plan to intervene to help out Turkey (highly recommended, as taking European Turkey back will not be easy at best)...

are a couple of our earlier players still around (United Elias and Whutefeckia)... do they stay neutral or intervene (if so, on whose side)

The British Empire is in a severe manpower crunch. Stealing German colonies in Africa isn't on the top of the list. I believe that there's going to be some aid sent to Persia, starting with a couple of divisions of the Indian army (to secure a fortress area at least) and growing rapidly as the Indian army gets larger.

As soon as the BEF gets more troops in general, some are going to Turkey (maybe 10 divisions or so). I think the ANZACs are going to be used in a mixed course of action, take German Guinea, but the majority are going to be needed in Egypt to make sure the Italians don't take the whole cake there.

Things will get much better for the Empire next year, there will be more troops, plus mid-year, a rather large Royal Hannoveran Army will be available for action. Offensives in Africa will begin in earnest as soon as there's more manpower to spare and the situation has stabilized in Europe. (hopefully)

ooc information Western Front (fighting in France and along the Franco-Italian border)

map links
first is for October 10 after nearly 2 months of fighting (blue and olive are Allied, black are German)

second is for November 30 (final lines achieved)

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ad5051/album?.dir=mail

(if you save the jpeg image to your computer, you can then view a larger image allowing for greater detail)

Timeline October 1 – Nov 20
Oct 9 Dunkirk falls
Oct 16 Cambrai falls, French 3rd Army and BEF attack near Reims (Battle of Aisne River)
Oct 23 Arras falls, Germans at the gates of St. Quentin, French and British continue attack near Reims, Germans are pushed back for the first time in
the war so far.
Oct30 Germans at gates of Calais, Battle of Aisne River continues, Calais holds, but barely
Nov 7 Calais falls, Germans attack in Argonne, force end to Allied offensive at Aisne, Germans take St. Quentin
November 15 Bologne falls, BEF holds Somme line between Abbeville and Amens, French hold Reims front,

offensive finally comes to an end November 20 as artillery ammunition and troops are exhausted.

British losses 100,000
French losses 650,000
Belgian losses 100,000

German losses 750,000

French / British and remaining Belgian forces hold a solid line for the first time for 2 weeks, which along with a sacrificial British offensive in Belgium
earlier, and powerful Anglo French offensive at Reims managed to stall the German invasion and ensure survival ….

I would suggest that the BEF is reconcentated between Amiens and Abbeville, with the British Hannover Expeditionary Force taking up positions next to them from Amiens to just south of St. Quentin, and the Americans taking up positions from there to Leon, and the CSA Army taking up positions form Leon to the Aisne Rive and the French holding the rest of the Front with the Belgian Army in the rear being rebuilt.

By the start of January, I figure 12 British divisions (all understrength), the BH army as you listed it (6 divisions), the US Army at 12 divisions, the CSA Army at 6 divisions, and the French Army at 40 divisions (because of losses) and the Belgians at 4 divisions vs the German Army of 120 divisions (120 vs 80 Allied) but the Germans are understrength as well.

The Italians are bloodily repulsed, with the worst fighting (and main concentration of forces) at Briancon pass and between Monaco and the Italian border. The extremely rugged terrain, strong French fixed defenses and relatively weak Italian divisions (Italians are weak in artillery greater than 105 mm) forced the Italians to use frontal assaults in the teeth of machine gun and artillery fire, minefields and extremely rugged ground. 50,000 French and 400,000 Italians become casualties along the Franco-Italian border, essentially gutting the Italian Army but preventing French units from being sent elsewhere.

position prevents the Russians pulling off a quick victory in Turkey, followed by Russian inefficiency and distances..... the war continues there as well.

do the Italians feel daring enough to try an assault on Malta now that they have temporary control of the Central Med?

Italians feel that an assault on malta is vital to increase morale.

Allied fleets January 1906

Grand Fleet – Admiral Jellicoe commanding (based at Scapa Flow)
Mission: Meet and destroy High Seas Fleet should it sortie
RN – Dreadnought, Superb, Bellerophen, Temeraire, Queen Victoria, 6 CA, 9 Desron, 1 subron
USN – Michigan, Minnesota, 2 Desron, 1 subron
RBHN – Wilfred Laurier, 6 CA, 3 Desron, 1 subron

Blockade Fleet – based at Belfast
Blockades G-I-UK gap and prevents imports from reaching Russia or Germany
RN – 20 CP2
RHBN – 4 CP2

Escort Fleet – based at New York, Halifax, Brest and Liverpool
Escorts troops and merchant convoys from North America to Europe (and back)
French – 12 CP2
RBHN – 2 BB2, 15 CP1, 8 CP2
USN – 8 CP2
RN – 12 BB1, 30 CP2
CSA – 2 BB2 (South Carolina, Louisiana) , 7 CP2 (Alabama, North Carolina, Virginia, Tennessee, Georgia, Mississippi, Jeff Davis)

Channel Fleet – based at Portsmouth, Cherbourg and Portsmouth
Maintains control over the English Channel, well supported by mines and shore guns at Dover
Dutch – 6 BB2, 2 Desron, 1 Torpron
RN – 6 BB1, 5 Desron
RBHN – 2 BB1, 2 Torpron
French – 1 Desron, 1 Torpron

Mediterranean Fleet – based at Toulon
Guards Western Mediterranean Sea
French – 5 BB1, 4 BB2, 3 BB3, 12 CA, 8 CP1, 4 Desron

Eastern Fleet – based at Alexandria Admiral Craddock commanding
Guards Eastern Med, support the Turks, regain the Central Mediterranean, isolate Libya
RN -- 15 BB2, 15 BB3, 6 CA, 10 CP1, 6 Desron, 1 subron

Southern Fleet – based at Capetown
Find and destroy German Fleet
RN -- BC Invincible, Indomitable, Inflexible, 10 CL (Adventure, Attentive, Forward, Foresight, Pathfinder, Patrol, Sentinel, Skirmisher, Boedica, Bellona, Blonde, Blanche)
Dutch – 2 CL (Tromp, De Ruyter)
RBHN – BC New Hannover,
USN – BC Ranger, Bon Homme Richard, 4 CL (Dayton, San Antonio, Augusta, Houston)

Pacific Fleet
Support Allied operations in Pacific and hunt raiders
USN – 1 BB3, 10 CA, 12 CL, 20 CP1, 6 Desron
RAN – 3 CP2
Dutch – 2 CP1, 2 Desron
French – 2 CP2
RBHN – 3 CA, 3 CP1, 4 CP2, 1 Desron, 1 Torpron,

Asian Fleet
Support operations along Asian Coast
IJN – 9 BB1, 2 CA, 15 CP1, 11 CP2, 3 Desron, 1 Torpron,
Plus US, RN, RAN, French gunboats, 1 US suborn, 2 US Desron

Plus Allied gunboats all through the Pacific, Africa and Caribbean areas
Plus US, British Hannover destroyers, torpedo boats at home not yet deployed
and a large number of ships under construction.

US is shifting some production from warships to tranport ships, suggests that British Hannover and UK do the same

bump

ooc
gamed out the invasion of Malta, and the Italians win.... just barely, but barely is enough. This is a pretty severe blow to British prestige and highly embarrassing. On the plus side for the British, warships are being stripped from the Pacific and Indian Ocean and sent to Alexandria. The British won't be able to take Malta back right away (probably not for months at the very least) but they will outnumber the Combined Fleet again and between the French and British be in position to place pretty severe pressure on the Italians. However, there are no longer any refueling places closer than Egypt (for the British) or Tunis or Corsica for the French, and both of the French forward bases are vulnerable to being cut off from supply (as they are supplied by sea).

bump

OOC> Cool.

Both Britain and British Hannover will be shifting some ship production in order to move greater and greater numbers of troops to where they are needed.

Central Powers Fleets January 1906

High Seas Fleet (at Kiel)
German -- 9 BB1, 9 CA, 2 CL, 4 CP1, 1 Desron, 4 subron
Russian – 2 BB1, 2 Desron,

Baltic fleet (Kronstadt and Lubeck)
German – 1 BB2, 1 Torpron
Russian – 2 BB3, 1 Torpron

Mediterranean Combined Fleet (Taranto, Naples, Split and Malta)
German – 1 BB1, 4 BB2, 6 CA, 8 CP1, 5 CP2, 1 Desron, 2 Torpron, 1 Subron,
Russian – 4 CA
Italian – 4 BB2, 8 BB3, 6 CA, 5 CP1, 3 Desron, 1 Torpron

Southern Fleet (Zanzibar)
Italian – 2 CP1
German – BC Blucher, 2 CA, 1 CL, 11 CP1

Black Sea Fleet
Russian – 2 BB1, 3 BB2, 1 BB3, 2 CA, 2 CP1, 4 CP2, 3 Desron

Asiatic Fleet (blockaded in Port Arthur)
German – 1 BB2, 3 CA (all damaged and now undercrewed)
Russian -- 4 BB2, 1 Desron (all damaged and now undercrewed), 3 CP1

Pacific Fleet (Vladivostok)
Russian – 1 Desron

ooc
what happened to the French player?

`Twas wondering that. Maybe he has exams or something. This would be the time if you were in high school, or it was around this time for me.

a couple of things.... Kitchener should be in charge of the British War effort by now, and he was universely respected (he would have handled the British effort in the Colombian War)

The movement of troops to Egypt from Australia, New Zealand and India would be delayed because of the breakout of the German cruisers... meaning at this point only about 40,000 British troops are in Egypt plus the Egyptian Army of similar size (which would have no reason to like the Italians).

On the other hand, the Italian advance is going to be very slow, as supplies have to be moved either overland 1,500 miles from Tripoli, or 400 miles from the ports of Tobruk and Barbia, and both of these minor ports are within easy range of British light naval forces in Alexandria (the Combined Fleet may own the central Med, but not the eastern Med).

So the Italian advance into Egypt is going to be very slow..... months to get to the border, more months to get to anything vital.... best Italian chance for a quick win is an amphibious invasion at Port Suez, but that is VERY risky.

Figure the British send 2 divisions to Bandar Abbas (about the immediate deployable strength of the Indian Army) and since the Germans used Walvis Bay as a base, the South Africans are going to have to take German Southwest Africa (Namibia today)... historically that took a month in January 1915, probably just as quick in this instance (Smuts was a REALLY good commander).

Alrighty then.

when Constantinople falls (and it does in mid February) the Russians are also able to cross the Hellespot and take Izmet (giving them both sides of the straits and along with control over Gallipoli, giving them control of the Sea of Marmara and Dardenelles too)... I figure the Turkish Sultan will retreat to Ankara and meet his doom to the Turkish Army officer corps, which will sue for peace.

Russia will demand that Bulgaria and Greece split Thrace, but that Constantinople and Izmet become Russian territory, with the Greeks getting bites of Asian Turkey as well, and the Russians getting Turkish Armenia.

Turkey will have to surrender at that point, as it will be low on troops and no help would have arrived yet, and would probably fall into civil war between the Turks and Kurds.

The only way to stop this is if the British try to force their way through Russian minefields and guns at Gallipoli (this didn't work so well in real life) to prevent the fall of the city. Risky, but need to know if the British are going to try it, or cut their losses, and work on dealing with the Central Med instead (probably more critical for them).

Western Front will be dull all winter, but figure losses will still be higher than hoped.... about 1,000 dead for every 10,000 troops deployed that winter, with a similar number of maimed, crippled or medically discharged because of illness.

This will bleed the BEF pretty badly, and it won't be kind to other armies (but they have bigger reserves of regulars and pre war trained first class reservists). Taken with losses from the initial offensive, and basically...

yuck

losses are pretty damn huge so far

Which feeds the desperation for a successful spring or summer offfensive on both sides to end this (nobody really understands how deadlocked things are yet except for Teddy Roosevelt and General Wood, who saw first hand the fighting in Colombia and remember the lessons of the American Civil War when excessive casualties brought down Lincoln)

The American are going to concentrate on the Pacific and Kamchatka first, then assist the Allies in clearing Africa, assuming in the long run if nothing else that way there will be territory to exchange to the Central Powers if France collapses or the British lose Suez for some reason (although the Americans don't think that likely).

bump

I think the British are going to have to just deal with the Central Mediterranean. Also, offensives to take German colonies will be beginning in earnest. There's quite a bit of real estate there in Africa and much of it is rather ill-protected. It would also deny the Germans valuable refuelling bases.

at sea, the Allied wolfhounds have finally overtaken the German wolves in the South Atlantic and the German fleet dies gloriously.

Finally from the Allied point of view.

This frees up a lot of shipping that has been locked up in ports for a while, and allows the British to seriously consider operations against German Africa at last with a certain amount of security. This also frees up a lot of Allied warships to move against the Combined Fleet in the Mediterranean in 1915

Bump

TAG.
I want to read this when I have time!

bump

NOTE TO RPERS: We're going to a WWII sim in a bit, New Shiron is writing up a history, I believe.

bump, just in case someone needs to get stuff from this.

1905
The Russians begin the war by marching on Turkey after a terrorist attack kills the Czar and Czarina and it is traced back to Turkey (later historians determine that it was much more complex than that). The Russians invade Persia, and with the assistance of Bulgaria, invade Thrace as well as crossing over into Turkish Armenia.

Shortly after this, the Japanese declare war on Russia because of Russian high handedness in Korea and Manchuria. This brings in the British on Japan’s side as well as British Hannover and Canada. The Russians attempt to attack Japanese shipping and in a dramatic miscalculation, attack an American cruiser squadron and the merchant ships being escorted, triggering war with the United States as well.

Meanwhile, the Germans decide to enter the war under their treaty obligation with Russia, and as the primary war plan calls for eliminating the French to safeguard Germany, launch a massive invasion of Belgium with secondary efforts conquering the Netherlands and Denmark. This brings in the French, as well as their ally the Confederate States of America and global war spreads across the world by the end of August. Soon after this, the Italians enter the war on the German side, followed by Serbia, Greece, and Hungary (all three determined to acquire Turkish territory in the Balkans).

The principal action this first year is a series of critical naval battles and the Russian offensive in Thrace, the German offensive in the West, and the Japanese offensive in Korea and Manchuria. Three major sea battles occur within weeks of the war beginning, with the bloody draws occurring in the North Sea and Central Mediterranean between Allied and Central Powers fleets, and the Central Powers being crushed in the Pacific. However a number of German cruisers manage to break out into the Pacific and Atlantic and for a time Indian Oceans, and months are required before the Allies manage to hunt them all down and sink them in a decisive battle in the South Atlantic. Meanwhile, the Central Powers manage to gain control of the central Mediterranean sea long enough to launch a successful invasion of Malta, and this British possession is conquered by the Italians.

On land, the fighting is even bloodier as the major combatants haven’t fought a war in many years and losses are frightfully high. The Japanese manage to clear Korea of Russian forces and then isolate and besiege the Russian base at Port Arthur. Meanwhile the Russians and their allies hammer their way to the Dardenelles and with artillery and mines close off Allied reinforcements before moving in to besiege Constantinople.

The decisive theater however is in the West, and France is attacked by both Italy (in the Riveria) and the Germany (through the Low Countries). In a extremely violent campaign, the Germans manage to fight their way to the Somme River before high casualties and exhaustion bring the invasion to a halt. French and British losses are equally heavy, and the plucky Belgians are gutted and Dutch are effectively destroyed or forced to evacuate by sea to Britain.

Meanwhile, the Americans seize the German colonies of the Caroline islands, Gilbert Islands and the German portion of Samoa, while the South Africans seize German Southwest Africa and the Australians seize the German Solomon Islands.

Meanwhile, long sieges are the primary action in Thrace and Manchuria, and a massive deadlock remains in the West.

1906
The year begins with the Central Powers invading Rumania after it fails to choose the right side, and within a few weeks that hapless nation is crushed and occupied (which secures Rumanian as well as Russian oil and wheat for Germany). In March, Constantinople finally falls and the Russians manage to get across the Hellespot and take Izmet. With the Turkish army rapidly disintegrating, the Turks overthrow the last of the Ottomans, declare a military republic and pull back their remaining troops Ankara and sue for peace.

Treaty of Constantinople
1. Turkey gives up Thrace to Bulgaria, Greece, and Constantinople becomes a city state under Russian control.
2. Cyprus is handed over to Greece, as are the other Aegean islands not already under Greek or Italian control. Western Asian Turkey is annexed by Greece as well (due to majority Greek population in that area)
3. Turkish Armenia is annexed by Russia.
4. Remainder of Turkey is essentially disarmed and becomes a Russian protectorate.
5. Turkish owned Syria, Palestine and Arabia is handed over to Russia except for
Arabia which gains its independence. However, the British move first an occupy the Levant preventing Russian occupation.

Meanwhile, the Japanese take Port Arthur and the Russians and Japanese fight an epic battle at Mukden which ends in a Russian retreat and pull back from southern Manchuria. However, the war there continues.

Once late spring arrives, the Allies make a major counteroffensive in the West. The British are bloodily repulsed along the Somme, while the French and Confederates meet the same result around Verdun. An American and British Hannover offensive gains some ground in the center but not enough to justify the heavy casualties. Meanwhile the Germans decide to remain on the defensive this year, more concerned about building up for winning the war next year. However they do send troops to assist the Italians in holding on to Tripoli, repulsing a French offensive from Tunisia and a the combined Italian and German army eventually takes Bizerte and Tunis, driving the French out of that colony. A British sortie by the Mediterranean Fleet out of Alexandria finally defeats the combined Central Powers fleet off Cape Matapan south of Greece, but losses are so heavy that the British are unable to press their advantage and the stand off in the Mediterranean Sea continues.

Russia reinforces its forces in Manchuria to the best of its ability as it finds that it cannot support a three front war and can barely support a one front war. Significant portions of German arms production are side tracked to the Russians to keep them fighting which is one of the primary reasons (aside from strategy) that the Germans do not launch a major offensive that year in the West. The Italians remained bogged down in the Alps, repulsed yet again.

However the Allies do gain ground in Africa and the Pacific, with the Americans conquering the Philippines using American and Central American troops along with sizeable numbers of friendly Filipino Nationalists, and the British take German Cameroon and German Southeast Africa. The Australians take the opportunity to seize German controlled portions of New Guinea as well as the German Solomon Islands against weak (essentially pro forma) resistance. Allied attacks on German Congo and German East Africa however are repulsed by both disease and effective German resistance.

1907
The situation remains deadlocked on all of the battle fronts. The heavy casualties the constant attrition has created has severely tested the Confederate and French armies, and in the Verdun sector the Germans have identified this weakness. In addition, the Germans have developed a new weapon to use against the Allies.

The toll of the war has also brought Japan, Italy and Russia to the limit of their financial resources and all three nations are near exhaustion. In the Confederacy and France, social disquiet is developing into social unrest (for different reasons). In Great Britain, British Hannover and the United States the voters are becoming weary of the war as well. The situation is hanging on a knife edge when spring comes.

The Germans have moved vast amounts of bridging equipment and assault boats opposite of the British line along the Somme in what would prove to be the largest and most successful deception in military history.
What was hidden was the even larger build up in front of the Confederate and French Armies in the Verdun sector.

In what would prove to be the decisive land battle of the war, the Germans began their attack with a massive four hour bombardment that included not only conventional high explosive shells but for the first time very large numbers of shells carrying Mustard and Phosgene gases. Entire French and Confederate divisions are wiped out in place, and vast holes are created in the Allied lines. Pushing through are the carefully trained German Stosstroopers, who bypass pockets of resistance and stab deep into the rear.

Within a week, the 1st Confederate Army and 4th French Army have been destroyed, and 2 other French armies are shattered. The entire line collapses east of Reims, forcing the other Allied armies to retreat as well as for the first time since 1914 movement has been restored to the front.

Over the next month the Germans concentrate on destroying the French while keeping up sufficient pressure on the other Allies to prevent them from counterattacking successfully. By July 10, the Germans have reached the gates of Paris and the French Army finally collapses after suffering over 2 million casualties in three months. Although German casualties are approaching 1 million, the French are finished and a general collapse ensues as most of the remaining French soldiers desert, surrender or are forced to fall back. This in turn forces the remaining Allies to fall back on their bases, with the British retreating to Normandy and the Americans and British Hannoverians forced to retreat to Brittany, along with the remnants of the Confederate Army.

By the end of August, most of France has fallen under German control, and the French armies along the Italian border surrender as well when a German army assists the Italians in finally breaching the French border defenses. On August 31, the French government asks for an armistice, and with no other choice, the other Allies are forced to agree.

Elsewhere the deadlock has continued, as the British attempts to conquer German East Africa and German Congo are again defeated, and the British and Russians lack the strength to move much in Persia. The Japanese are also exhausted and are unable to even muster the needed troops to take German Tsingtao, while the Americans and British have other things to worry about. The only bright spot for the Allies is the American capture and occupation of Russian Kamchatka, but this isolated region is hardly vital to anyone.

On September 20, the representatives of the Allies and the Central Powers meet in Madrid to discuss a permanent peace treaty. The first step is the announcement of an immediate general armistice.

The fighting has finally ended.

@_@.

Poor French. *applauds New Shrion, though*

Well done New Shiron an excellent history.
Whats next Nordriech?

we need to decide what happens at the peace conference, which will assuredly set the stage for the next war.....

you can also count on problems in Russia, France, and possibly Japan and Italy as well as in the Confederacy

I would imagine. Given that, even with my limited knowledge of demographics, France basically lost a generation out there. It looks like they overall took even heavier casualties than the Germans, who had about twice the population and a demographically younger and more rapidly growing one. Not that German losses aren't an issue ... they basically had to win in that campaign.

The Germans are going to be a little more reasonable at the table than they had originally planned. Military victory has, in the personality-based nature of current German politics, given the Crown Prince more or less de facto control over Germany. Still, the Germans are going to want, a.) the return of their African colonies, b.) the annexation of some European territory.

My guess is that the main thrust is going to be the annexation of the Netherlands and its rich colony, the Dutch East Indies. That's the single richest prize that the Germans want to take home. They'd like Belgium but they could possibly be negotiated out of it at the table. They'd also really like Denmark (strategic position) and Luxembourg (small and largely German anyway). I doubt the Germans are going to annex any French territory. (Alsace-Lorraine as is is quite a defensible border and their major colonial interests are elsewhere. If they can get away with it, they'll probably get Britain or France to cough up some money too, since they need it. (see below for other means of collecting said money)

Regarding the Pacific, by rights they could probably claim back the Pacific Islands that were taken, but will probably recognize most of it as a fait accompli. It looks like the Philippines weren't seized, however. I suspect the Crown Prince will ask that the US buy the smaller Pacific islands (for a fair price) and will probably offer Tsingtao under similar terms to Japan (more for diplomatic, political reasons).

If the US really wants the Philippines, they might be able to buy it, although at a steeper price (ie, a realistic purchase price for relatively prime real estate). It's probably not a secret that the Germans are, if not bankrupt in some need of money. The US might be able to capitalize on that and get the Philippines for cash and recognition of the German annexation of the East Indies (more valuable territory). This would probably also apply to the Dutch possessions in the Americas (Suriname and the Dutch Caribbean). I think the Germans are sort of planning to withdraw from the High Pacific in order to concentrate their political interests somewhat.

Overall, the Allied nations are going to find that the Germans act very different to some of them than others, in general, much nicer to the North Americans. After all, they don't hold any of their territory and they want to perhaps keep them as postwar economic partners, keeping bitterness to a minimum. Britain and France will be more unpleasantly treated.

Just curious, what would total casualties look like? WWI sort of numbers? I'm guessing a bit over 2 million for the Germans. (750,000 1905, 500,000 1906, 1,000,000 1907). Don't know what things looked like for Russia, France looks like it lost even more than the Germans, Britain (maybe 1 million?), US a bit less, British Hannover maybe half the US total, Italy maybe a million, Japan maybe half-3/4 of a million?

I would imagine. Given that, even with my limited knowledge of demographics, France basically lost a generation out there. It looks like they overall took even heavier casualties than the Germans, who had about twice the population and a demographically younger and more rapidly growing one. Not that German losses aren't an issue ... they basically had to win in that campaign.

The Germans are going to be a little more reasonable at the table than they had originally planned. Military victory has, in the personality-based nature of current German politics, given the Crown Prince more or less de facto control over Germany. Still, the Germans are going to want, a.) the return of their African colonies, b.) the annexation of some European territory.

My guess is that the main thrust is going to be the annexation of the Netherlands and its rich colony, the Dutch East Indies. That's the single richest prize that the Germans want to take home. They'd like Belgium but they could possibly be negotiated out of it at the table. They'd also really like Denmark (strategic position) and Luxembourg (small and largely German anyway). I doubt the Germans are going to annex any French territory. (Alsace-Lorraine as is is quite a defensible border and their major colonial interests are elsewhere. If they can get away with it, they'll probably get Britain or France to cough up some money too, since they need it. (see below for other means of collecting said money)

Regarding the Pacific, by rights they could probably claim back the Pacific Islands that were taken, but will probably recognize most of it as a fait accompli. It looks like the Philippines weren't seized, however. I suspect the Crown Prince will ask that the US buy the smaller Pacific islands (for a fair price) and will probably offer Tsingtao under similar terms to Japan (more for diplomatic, political reasons).

If the US really wants the Philippines, they might be able to buy it, although at a steeper price (ie, a realistic purchase price for relatively prime real estate). It's probably not a secret that the Germans are, if not bankrupt in some need of money. The US might be able to capitalize on that and get the Philippines for cash and recognition of the German annexation of the East Indies (more valuable territory). This would probably also apply to the Dutch possessions in the Americas (Suriname and the Dutch Caribbean). I think the Germans are sort of planning to withdraw from the High Pacific in order to concentrate their political interests somewhat.

Overall, the Allied nations are going to find that the Germans act very different to some of them than others, in general, much nicer to the North Americans. After all, they don't hold any of their territory and they want to perhaps keep them as postwar economic partners, keeping bitterness to a minimum. Britain and France will be more unpleasantly treated.

Just curious, what would total casualties look like? WWI sort of numbers? I'm guessing a bit over 2 million for the Germans. (750,000 1905, 500,000 1906, 1,000,000 1907). Don't know what things looked like for Russia, France looks like it lost even more than the Germans, Britain (maybe 1 million?), US a bit less, British Hannover maybe half the US total, Italy maybe a million, Japan maybe half-3/4 of a million?

The Philippines were taken by the Americans who used a couple of divisions of North American troops and 6 divisions of Central American/North American (mixed) troops (Spanish speakers). The campaign started with landings at Cebu and Leyte (forward anchorage), then Mindanoa and last landings at Subic Bay and Lingayen Gulf with a two pronged advance on Manila ... it would have taken about 8 months total.

Death toll (total casualties will be x 3 of the death toll).... estimates
USA 600,000 (includes Central American dead)
UK 600,000 (includes Irish dead)
British Hannover 500,000
Australia / New Zealand 50,000
France 1.5 million
Germany 2 million
Russia 3 million
Turkey 1 million
Japan 300,000
Italy 1 million
Belgium/Netherlands 200,000

most (nearly all) were military casualties except in Turkey which had a high civilian death toll because of civil disorder

USA controls Gilbert, Caroline islands, Philippines, and Russian Kamchatka (which it will trade for peace)
Australia has German New Guinea and Solomon Islands
South Africa has Southwest Africa
Italy has Tunisia and Malta (taken from France and Britian) plus Nice and Monoco (and the coast between that area and Italy)
Russia has Turkish Armenia, and the city state of Constantinople
Bulgaria and Greece have Thrace
Greece has a sizeable chunk of the Turkish Aegean coastline
UK has Syria, Palestine, Jordan and Iraq (if that player not in game)
UK and Russian have each conquered half of Persia (north south division)
Japan has Korea, and southern Manchuria
Russia has northern Manchuria
Tsingtao is still under German control (no one ever got around to it)
Germany has control over Netherlands, but Dutch East Indies under British control at this time.
UK has seized German Cameroon
Germany has control over Luxembourg, Belgium, Denmark, US / British Hannover have seized Iceland and Greenland

the US demands independence for Iceland, Philippines as American protectorates, will buy Caroline and Gilbert Islands, plus wants British Hannover to buy Greenland. Will hand back Kamchatka to ensure Japan keeps Korea, wants Japan and Russia to pull military forces out of Manchuria
Willing to accept German take over of Netherlands and Dutch East Indies, plus Luxembourg. US willing to accept the division of Belgium into Wallonia (to go to France) and Flemish sections to Germany.

US will urge the return of German African colonies.

The US will be very firm in its resolve on this issue, but also as soon as the fighting stops, pull its troops out of France (and urge British Hannover, Britian and CSA to do the same in order to avoid giving the Germans an excuse to start the fighting again)

Russia is willing to accept the American suggestions, although not cheerfully, but needs the fighting to stop to prevent further social disruption. Besides, Russia got nearly everything it wanted from Turkey, so is willing to be flexible.

German Offer/Demands:
* Annexation of Netherlands, Denmark, Flemish Belgium and Luxembourg. Annexation of Dutch East Indies.

* Return of all German colonies in Africa.

* Accept loss of Philippines. Will make some murmur about a price, but will either quietly drop it or accept a nominal 'price' for pride reasons.

* On the sale block, for real. Greenland, Dutch possessions in the Americas, German Pacific Islands, German New Guinea.

* Germany will accept Icelandic independence. It will also make noises about Arab independence but quietly drop it in exchange for its real goals.

* German troops will immediately leave France upon the conclusion of peace. France will be allowed to take Wallonia.

* Recognition of the 'fair claims' of its allies. And the diplomats will probably notice that German talks more about Italy and the smaller nations than Russia.

* A notable absence of draconian terms on France, except the forced recognition of Alsace-Lorraine as 'German in perpetuity'. Why bother disarming an enemy which is patently inferior in real and potential military strength and why bother taking money from a demographically and economically crippled nation? Best to act relatively clement and if the winds blow right, try it again.

* An olive branch to the North Americans and especially the Japanese. The Germans will offer Tsingtao (which is untaken) to Japan in exchange for cash, trading rights and a warm fuzzy feeling for the future. Tsingtao would essentially give Japan de facto control of the Shandong peninsula in China.

Britain:

* Will likely accept the German programme, as ending the war would be very much in its interests as Ireland and India will probably flare up soon.

* Will take up the Germans on the purchase of New Guinea and the Solomons.

* Will insist on maintaining control of the Middle East, but will likely pass off Syria and Lebanon on France in order to reduce its administrative workload a bit.

British Hannover:
* will likely accept the German proposals in their essence. The people are basically sick of war.

* will buy Greenland

I'm guessing France would accept it, they, ironically, will probably end up gaining a net amount of territory through the war (Wallonia and Syria/Lebanon) as Britain would. Not to mention that with their army effectively destroyed and their economy crippled and country occupied, they really aren't in a position to talk a lot. And the Germans aren't demanding much of them directly.

OOC>
btw, I'm going to need to have the start of any new RP hold out until after next week. I'm in the book review lump right now.

the US will purchase the Dutch territories in the Caribbean and get them on the road to independence on the 20 year plan just like Central America, Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philippines. The US will keep the Caroline and Gilbert islands though, and assist Australia financially if need be to purchase the Solomon islands, German Papau and German Samoa (which the Allies seized in 1906).

About $100 Million will be offered to Germany in recompense.

Teddy Roosevelt will be able to claim that the French let the American people down, not "our boys" and claim that the liberation of the Philippines offsets the defeat of France (not exactly true, but thats how elections work) and serve another term (1908 -1912). The German victory also allows him to continue his naval build up but the end of the war will see a massive reduction in the Army.

Russia will keep what it took in Persia and Turkey, accept the situation in Asia.

Ensuring Greece and Bulgaria and Russia control Thrace is the paramount goal, even Persia is negotiable.

I will assume all this is accepted and work up a timeline to 1932 over the next week.

Italy Demands
* Malta and Corsica annexed
* $10 million from the French


Japan will purchase Tsingtao from the Germans. Korea will be annexed. Japanese Manchuria and Russian Mancchuria are to be demilitarized.

I am thinking Italy should probably claim Tunisia and Malta since they have been conquered by Italian and German troops. Corsica used to be Italian prior to 1754, but that seems a stretch for Italy to grab it as no Italian troops made it ashore.

Actually, denying Italy Corsica offers a useful tool for creating the next conflict (gives Italian Fascists something to bitch about and leads to Mussolini)

France is certainly going to have some kind of revolution as it has lost yet again to the Germans, lost territory, and the latest Republic has failed.

Anyone have a preference? I am thinking it either goes communist or fascist fairly quickly, probably after a nasty civil war.

Coin toss for me. Poor France.

The Germans accept the American offer. They're victorious, but exhausted. A loss would have been a disaster politically, as it is, there's something of a bloodless coup. That is, the current Kaiser resigns (as he was an incompetent who never wanted power) and most of the upper-level General Staff, including Manstein, the previously de facto German leader is packed off to pleasant retirements on country estates.

The Crown Prince, Friedrich Wilhelm III enstates himself as Kaiser, with the full support of the German army and people (he is viewed, rightly as the main contributor to German victory). Albrecht von Mannerheim (the leading negotiator at Budapest) is enstated as Chancellor, with the proviso that in six months, there will be an election and the Chancellor will be an elected, rather than an appointed position.

Friedrich Wilhelm sets up a sort of tripartate power arrangement in Germany, with the Reichstag and Chancellor handling most domestic affairs and the General Staff handling most military affairs. The monarchy will serve as a bridge between the two, de facto, being the foreign policy and colonial affairs arm. It's not a liberal democracy, but it's more democratic than the current arrangement. He will also try to obtain women's suffrage, which is something of a pet cause for him. He's rather unlike most of his family, either his father or elder brother, being something of a moderate liberal. I guess, ultimately, it's a classical constitutional monarchy, with the Kaiser acting a lot like the US President.

Militarily, Germany will keep about a million men in arms on the European continent itself, with colonial garrisons of varying size in Africa (although none of them large) and a rather large regular force in the East Indies (maybe 200,000?). There will be colonial troops too, with maybe 200,000 in the East Indies and the rest scattered about in Africa. Navally, Germany will keep a fairly ambitious building schedule, which will at least be able to keep up with the US or Britain individually, but not collectively. Many of the older battleships will be sold to allies or friendly states. (maybe Argentina or Croatia or Bulgaria)

Britain is going to come out of the war economically weakened and its prestige badly mangled, even if, on the surface, it actually gains territory. However, its main claim to glory, control of the seas, is no longer accurate. A peace on German terms will allow them to build up their fleet and given their economic strength and highly upgraded infrastructure, they may be able to eventually equal or even surpass Britain in naval strength.

In addition, the European continent is, in the main, under German control, alliance or influence. Germany is now second only to Britain as a colonial power (possessing huge chunks of Africa and the East Indies) and many of its vital interests are weakened. There will doubtless be revolts in Ireland and India, which will likely be put down quickly, but still, will leave lingering doubt and damage.

British Hannover is also a profoundly disappointed nation, having suffered fairly heavy casualties for no apparent gain. The main manifestation of this is going to be a reaction against the Empire. The odds of British Hannover becoming a republic and renaming itself Canada is around even. There's not much enthusiasm left in the British Empire for a country which is at least as much German as British, with a sizeable French element. If there's going to be a nasty civil war in France, there might be a significant French immigration to the BH province of Quebeb, diluting the British element further. I would also expect a lot of Eastern Europeans coming in from Russia.

British Hannover, as a fairly progressive (not socialist, just progressive liberal) country, will probably be the first major Western nation to grant women's suffrage. The British Hannoveran army will shrink back to nearly nothing (Arthur Currie will be a bit grumpy about it, but he knows and everyone else does that it serves little purpose) but the navy will keep fairly strong, maintaining itself at about a third of the US fleet.

By the way, Kanor, Italy can probably also safely annex Albania, I would think.

The United States maintains a steady building campaign, with plans to reach 16 dreadnought battleships and 8 battlecruisers by 1921, a large number of better destroyers (about 75 by 1921), a couple of more cruisers, some submarines and some blimps.

Aircraft experimentation continues, with the Navy buying a lot of Curtis seaplanes, and nascent aircraft companies becoming important by 1920.

The Army is dramatically reduced in size to about 200,000 men, including colonial troops in the Philippines, Central America and Hawaii, plus the nascent Army Air Corps but experiments with motor vehicles, aircraft and the radio are stepped up. The Marine Corps stays at about 50,000 men, as it is the primary reaction force for problems in the protecterates.

Although not itself defeated on the battlefield (as the French and Confederates were the ones who collapsed), the US Army still feels it has a lot of lessons to digest and works on that.

Increasingly unsettled conditions in the Confederacy keep the Army from being shrunk as far as desired and it actually ends up stabilizing at about 250,000 plus a large national guard.

The United States does end up in some ways better of financially. Although loans made to the French are unrecoverable, loans to the British and Australians and Japanese are recoverable, preventing financial disaster. However a recession sets in post war, offset only by still high prices for farm products as Russia has problems, the French have problems, the Germans can't get Russian wheat for a while, and the US and British Hannover are the largest farming producers (especially when the Confederacy really starts having problems)...but the US suffered no significant damage itself, has captive markets in Latin America and the Philippines, retains access to Europe and China, and continued shipbuilding and railroad construction continues to help the economy. Continued immigration from Europe, especially Russian Jews, Poles, French and Irish immigrants, and to a lesser extent, Danish immigrants is a plus long term, and substantial numbers of Blacks immigrate from the Confederacy.

suggestions by intellectuals to create a League of Nations are cheerfully ignored as most Americans want to simply forget about Europe and the dissapointments of the war in Europe.

OOC> If you're on sometime soon or later tonight, MSN would be a good idea, methinks.

Kanor ... radical change of plans. WWII is going to look very different methinks. New Shiron is writing up a history, but it won't be ready for nearly a week, I think. It looks like a German-Russian war in the early 1920's, knocking Russia effectively out of the conflict. Then a fascist England and France (with maybe Japan and/or Italy for allies) striking against North America and Germany (maybe w/Italy?) getting involved a bit later.

Fun stuff.

Sounds good. Italy will Annex Albania, Malta and Tunisia but still wishes to posess Corsica.

Sounds good. Italy will Annex Albania, Malta and Tunisia but still wishes to posess Corsica.

Italy will be able to take it over during the French Civil War (starting immediately post war), without meeting any resistance, along with Elba and other small islands

As Britain slowly goes to hell politically, the republican movement in British Hannover will gain strength and will probably officially make the break in the early 1920's, with a fascist regime in place in Britain maybe around 1925-ish. In addition, the British Dominions, ie, New Zealand and Australia might follow it.

When British Hannover goes republican, it will start calling itself simply Canada, the historic name of the country (goes back to the 16th century) and establish the Commonwealth of Nations, which Australia and New Zealand will probably join. Of course, this is a direct challenge to British authority.

bump

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bumpity

Treaty of Madrid 1908
1.Germany annexes the Netherlands, Denmark, and Flemish Belgium (including Antwerp and Brussels), retains Alsace Lorraine, and German Cameroon and German Southwest Africa are returned to German control.

2.Russia annexes Turkish Armenia, Constantinople, and parts of Persia.
3.Italy annexes Malta and Tunisia.
4.Greece and Bulgaria annex Thrace (split between them).
5.USA purchases the Philippines, Gilbert Islands, Caroline Islands from Germany for $100 Million.

6.Iceland is granted independence from Denmark, British Hannover purchases Greenland from Denmark.

7.Cyprus and parts of western Turkey annexed by Greece.
8.Australia purchases German Solomon Islands, Samoa, and New Guinea.
9.Japan purchases German concession of Tsingtao.
10.German annexes Dutch East Indies.
11.Japan acquires Korea, Manchuria returned to China and both Russia and Japan pull out their military forces except for a token force.
12.France acquires Syria, Lebanon. Britain acquires Iraq, Palestine, Transjordan. Arabia granted independence.

13.Britain given southern Persia.
14.France acquires Wallonia (southern Belgium).
15.Italy acquires Corsica, but pulls out of French Riveria.

16.Naval treaty reducing arms race negotiated. 10 – 10 -7-7 -4 -4 ratio (US/UK/Germany/Japan/Italy/France), limitations of cruiser size, limitations on submarine use, ban on chemical weapons, (basically the Washington Naval Treaty from real life without the battleship holiday)


US and UK to each have 20 dreadnoughts and battlecruisers (which are considered capital ships), Germans and Japanese to have 14 apiece, the Italians and French limited to 8 apiece. Russia is also included at the 8 ratio, as is the Confederacy. Cruisers limited to 10,000 tons with maximum of 8 inch guns. Excess ships to be scrapped or otherwise disposed of (used predreadnought battleships anyone?) This treaty also allows the navies to modernize without retriggering the naval arms race that existed prewar.

This is setting the stage for next war. Roosevelt would have pushed for a naval treaty, British would have gone for it, and so would everyone else because they are essentially broke and can't afford a naval race right now. Later on the Fascist and Right Wing types will rail against the surrender of soveriegnity and power implied.

even as the treaty is signed, Kemel takes power in Turkey as leader of the Young Turks and war between the Greeks and Turks flares up again in western Turkey and Cyprus.

Meanwhile, as German troops return to Germany, France falls apart as right and left wing extremists both call for revolution and the government falls shortly thereafter. In the colonies, the Right wingers control sufficient military forces to retain control, and they strongly control rural France. In the big cities, especially Paris, but also Marsailles, Lille and other heavily industralized cities, the Communists manage to seize control -- the French Civil War has begun.

In Russia, rioting has forced the government to pull troops to the cities and some of them join in with the workers. In St. Petersburg, the sailors join in with the Reds and the Winter Palace is seized, while in Moscow the Kremlin manages to hold out but the rest of the city falls under Red control. The Russian Civil War has begun as well.

(thus endth this thread and the groundwork is prepared for the next one)