NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm looking to build a new fighter, but I'm small and can't do it all alone.

The New Libya Government is requesting aid from anyone who will help in the devlopment and production of this aircraft. After the production anyone who helped will get production rights on the aircraft. So there for I will only accept help from someone I think I can trust so not all of you will have your help accepted. Once the devolpment starts specs will be TG to the helping nations and posted here. I'm hoping to have enough aid and money for the aircraft within 5 years(5 Days)but hopefully sooner.


What I'm hoping to build:
http://wallpaper.net.au/wallpaper/abstract/Abstract%20Future%20Fighter%20Jet%20-%20800x600.jpg

Please contact The United States of WyattLand via telegram regarding these issue.

Ankhmet will provide $10,000,000,000US for this project. We may also provide scientists to help you produce this fighter technolog.Akhmeti scientists have a lot of knowledge on atmospheric craft.

Ankhmet will provide $10,000,000,000US for this project. We may also provide scientists to help you produce this fighter technolog.Akhmeti scientists have a lot of knowledge on atmospheric craft.


$10 Trillion?? Are you sure?

That's billion.

ooc: nice picture, looks like it would be more of an attack aircraft than a fighter mainly the nose/cock-pit conficuration

ic: Phoenix Dynamix would to donate 2.5 billion toward the development of this new aircraft

Dominion of Draconis Federation, will offer the finest of our military laboratories, Area 6, Area 9, and Area 13. We are a neutral nation, that rarely goes to war, but we are allways interested in new millitary technology. Should you comply with our offer we will be more then willing to open an exchange of our millitary technology with your government. That is if you choose us.

ooc: nice picture, looks like it would be more of an attack aircraft than a fighter mainly the nose/cock-pit conficuration

ic: Phoenix Dynamix would to donate 2.5 billion toward the development of this new aircraft


Yea its a fix of those 2. You I've heard of and seen around the past one day I've been here
:)

So yes you will be trusted and you will have rights to this once the aircraft is done.

OOC-For a fighter, the whole design is flawed. Large wings are good, but it really has no tail per-se. This means its maneuverability will be severly limited. Like others have said, its cockpit-nose config are all off. Otherwise, she's a beaut. Ankhmet can't afford to donate such a sum, but I can. *laughs at his own immense military budget*



The Republic of Feazanthia will donate a sum of twelve trillion USD for this project, under the caveat of Feazanthia gaining full production rights at the project's end.

Watch your back new libya, Phoenix will be using that fighter/attack craft against you before long, or selling it which would serve his war making needs. Am I wrong Phoenix? I doubt it, just watch your back NL or Phoenix will get ya. maniacal laughter

*whomps Draconis Federation over the head with a keyboard*
Using it against New Lybia? Ha! That is beyon my level of treachery, sorry :p
Sell it, why I would never :D (without permission ;) )

With Feazanthias offer devlopment will start. Its going to take about 2 years(2 days) to even get the first prototype off the ground.

So far here is what we are looking at:

Length: 58ft
Height: 12.3ft
Wing Span: 44ft
Engine: I'm still trying to devlop the engine, I'm wanting to build the worlds most powerful jet engine for it but it will cost Billions if not Trillions to come up with it.
Combat Radius: 1,000+nm
Combat Ceiling: Approximately 120,000 ft
Armament: Up to 13,700 pounds internal ordnance.
Crew: One pilot, one weapons and sensors officer (WSO)

Price: Unknow at this time.

(gets up from the womping, and pull's out his trusty katana)
Told you, you can't trust Phoenix to do anything dignafied.
(gives Phoenix a flat top) (haha you have a flat top now) :rolleyes:

*whomps Draconis Federation over the head with a keyboard*
Using it against New Lybia? Ha! That is beyon my level of treachery, sorry :p
Sell it, why I would never :D (without permission ;) )


Your rights to the aircraft have neen canceled and the money sent back to you.

Still accepting donations!!

With TPM and Feazanthia offers devlopment will start. Its going to take about 2 years(2 days) to even get the first prototype off the ground.

So far here is what we are looking at:

Length: 58ft
Height: 12.3ft
Wing Span: 44ft
Engine: I'm still trying to devlop the engine, I'm wanting to build the worlds most powerful jet engine for it but it will cost Billions if not Trillions to come up with it.
Combat Radius: 1,000+nm
Combat Ceiling: Approximately 120,000 ft
Armament: Up to 13,700 pounds internal ordnance.
Crew: One pilot, one weapons and sensors officer (WSO)

Price: Unknow at this time.


Sounds like your trying to build the SR-71 here. Ceiling of 120 000 feet is going to be nearly impossible to achieve in fighter. Airliners cruise below 60 000. At the altitudes your trying to achieve the air is to thin for even a laminer airfoil wing of a 44' wingspan to produce enough lift. I would suggest to relook over your plan here and consider the purpose of this aircraft. Is it a fighter? Is it a high alt. spy aircraft? From your picture (a cool one nonetheless) and the basic specs. It seems to point to the latter. This is just my opinion on the subject, which you don't have ot pay attention to in any way.

Sounds like your trying to build the SR-71 here. Ceiling of 120 000 feet is going to be nearly impossible to achieve in fighter. Airliners cruise below 60 000. At the altitudes your trying to achieve the air is to thin for even a laminer airfoil wing of a 44' wingspan to produce enough lift. I would suggest to relook over your plan here and consider the purpose of this aircraft. Is it a fighter? Is it a high alt. spy aircraft? From your picture (a cool one nonetheless) and the basic specs. It seems to point to the latter. This is just my opinion on the subject, which you don't have ot pay attention to in any way.

There will be a strike plane model, and a spy plane model.

This is not the final specs. Like I said its in devlopment and many more changes are to come to it.

Maybe it's an Inter-planetary fighter, I have them them for planetary defence from hostile space fleets, it would make since, No?

Maybe it's an Inter-planetary fighter, I have them them for planetary defence from hostile space fleets, it would make since, No?


No futrue tech or space fleet stuff in my nation. I say again this is not the final thing.

Ok, maybe it's a high-alt missle interceptor, you would want to prevent a nuclear holocaust.

Ok, maybe it's a high-alt missle interceptor, you would want to prevent a nuclear holocaust.


I've told you and told you what it is, now stop please. The final specs are not finished changes will be made.

Dear New Libya

If you will refer to http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=278248 you will see that AGI (Adejaani Government Industries) has an extremely fine pedigree in regards to our own indigenous designs (reference update circa Dec 27, Dakarie Year 67; "Additionally, a series of new products are flowing from AGI:").

AGI is offering our services, our facilities, our expertise and our experienced personnel.

What do we ask in return? Not production rights, but merely the application of technologies that come out of this project. We await to hear from you.

-Doctor Marianne Brooks
CEO, Adejaani Government Industries (AGI)

Dear New Libya

If you will refer to http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=278248 you will see that AGI (Adejaani Government Industries) has an extremely fine pedigree in regards to our own indigenous designs (reference update circa Dec 27, Dakarie Year 67; "Additionally, a series of new products are flowing from AGI:").

AGI is offering our services, our facilities, our expertise and our experienced personnel.

What do we ask in return? Not production rights, but merely the application of technologies that come out of this project. We await to hear from you.

-Doctor Marianne Brooks
CEO, Adejaani Government Industries (AGI)



So what you mean is...if I make a new jet engine for it you want the rights to the engine?

Pretty much. As well as the overall airframe design (the wings are of particular interest), as are the other technologies which may be developed from this program.

Pretty much. As well as the overall airframe design (the wings are of particular interest), as are the other technologies which may be developed from this program.


Ok its a done deal after you explain very well what your offering and how it will be of use to the Aircraft Progam.

The following specs WILL be used in the production of this aircraft.

Length: 60ft
Height: 12ft
Wing Span: 42ft
Engine: I'm thinking of maybe being able to put a space shuttle engine on it to provide the speed wanted. Maybe twin engines if needed. I want to achive Mach 23 and yes thats intense, I'm also trying to fiqure out of to allow this and keep the pilots safe but at the time I don't think this will happen.

Other specs have not been approved yet.

The following specs WILL be used in the production of this aircraft.

Length: 60ft
Height: 12ft
Wing Span: 42ft
Engine: I'm thinking of maybe being able to put a space shuttle engine on it to provide the speed wanted. Maybe twin engines if needed. I want to achive Mach 23 and yes thats intense, I'm also trying to fiqure out how to allow this and keep the pilots safe but at the time I don't think this will happen.

Other specs have not been approved yet.

On that size, it's near impossible. What I'd need to know is the following:

How many crew
What are its potential missions
Any specific requirements (apart from the laid down stats)

Once I get those, I can get to the drawing board. The potential missions and requirements is essential, as it will form the basis of what can and can't be done.

The Space Shuttle engines are chemical rockets, not jet engines. That means your 1000 naut. mile range is damn near impossible to achieve. Sorry...

Mach 23 is also impossible within the Earths atmosphere. No matter how streamlined you make the aircraft it would not fly at that at that altitude. And from the concept picture, your jet does not look that streamlined. Now, if you coated it in teflon.....

Give Adejaani all the specs. and ideals for this aircraft and let him come up with a design that fits both your concept picture and what you want the aircraft to do (exactly what you want it do). Then from there you develpo the engine. Prob. a pair of Pratt & Whitney J-58s would do the job (same ones as in the SR-71 which does Mach 3.2).

http://www.sr-71.org/ - This site has pretty much everything you need to know about the SR-71 the ultimate high altitude spy aircraft.

OOC: Agreed, donut, which is why I need the specifications before I can say "this I can't do". It's slightly possible, but I'd really doubt it. Then again, look at some of my work within the OMASC/AGI storefront. I can come up with ideas. ;)

Give Adejaani all the specs.


Length: 60ft
Height: 12ft
Wing Span: 42ft
Crew: 2

That is all I got so far I'm still trying to come up with the rest.

NL, this is what I know. What's this aircraft going to be used for? It's kinda very important, even before simulator testing (so to speak) can begin, let alone the design process.

Air superiority, strike, close air support, air interdiction and so on.

There will be 2 models of the aircraft. One will be a strike plane, and the other a spy plane. These are the two main things it will be used for but we may at a later date desgin another model for something else. Such a a bomber maybe but for now just a strike plane and spy plane.

[b]Memo
To: New Libya
From: Doctor Marianne Brooks (et al)
Re: NLF-1 project (stage one)

The NLF-1 (New Libya Fighter One) project has begun. However, most of the AGI staff here have taken one look and flatly refuse to work on the project. Indeed, the most senior engineer has gone on the record stating the following, though anonymously:

Frankly, the specifications simply can't work. Although the physical specifications are alright, the unstated requirements for Mach 2+ and 120,000 feet combat ceiling... On these dimensions? There's only one way to accomplish this on an aircraft that size. It's not overly impossible. There's a real world precedent. Though if the requirements stand, NLF-1 is going to be able to shoot up vertically, breaking the sound barrier as it rockets upwards in excess of Mach 2 up to 120,000 feet. Then it's going to break the sound barrier again (and its wings, literally) as it plummets towards the ground, out of fuel and then require people with spatulas, tweezers and lots of little plastic bags to collect the remains.

Simply put, the original airframe design as submitted simply lacks the sturdiness for extremely high altitude and speed, let alone the range. Further, the wings are not stressed enough for a strike fighter role. Although the ordnance can be mounted directly under the fuselage (as in F-14 Tomcat), it would limit the weapons choices available.

That same senior engineer, however, went on record as noting that ironically, scaling up the aircraft is not a good option, as the wings would probably snap off during a heavy landing if the aircraft is carrying a heavy load at the time.

Yes the combat ceiling has been changed to 70,000ft and we at least want to achive Mach 2.5 Also if we can't design the aircraft for a strike fighter role The New Libya Armed Forces Research Dept. is willing to make a spy plane model only since we are in need of spy planes and wish to build our own. The camera and/or video camera both can be mounted under the cockpit most likley.

That's far simpler then. A slightly modified version of the SR-71... The Mach 2.5 is going to be worrying, but it's possible. Won't be the least bit stealthy, though.

No I'm not looking for stealth at this time but since we are not going to make a fighter model lets try to make it cruise at the highest we can get it.

Height isn't the problem, it's the airframe. The wings are probably just a bit too fragile. That's why most multi mach aircraft (even spacecraft) are extremely streamlined, to the point of being triangular.

Ok, I'll see what kinda other designs I have on my computer :headbang:

I'll have a new one up in about 10 minutes.

http://www.eazhull.org.uk/SummerSchool00/group4/images/future%20plane.jpg

Carries 4 engines so we can hit Mach 2.5 with the right engine. With the airframe we may even be able to stealth it up :D

Sepcs:
Length: 30ft
Height: 12ft
Wing Span: 31ft
Crew: 2

And it can do nothing else. That thing is actually smaller than an F-16. I suppose it can be a multi mach reconnaisance aircraft. I wouldn't want to fly in it, though. :rolleyes:

The Republic of Dostanuot Loj would like to put $10,000,000,000 USD of funding into these Libyan aircraft designs.
As well, we wish to donate a number of our Kyt 9800 Articulating Ramjet Engines to the projects, we believe these will more then suffice in getting the aircraft to 120,000 feet, and above mach 2.5.
A single Kyt 9800 is rated at 115,000 lbs of thrust durring full burn, and unfortunatly eats up fuel almost as fast as a rocket.
Would this be accecpted?

Also, if a regular style jet engine is required, we are willing to donate a number of our Kyt-700 Turbofan Jet Engines, each engine being rated at 38,000 lbs of thrust with afterburner on.

Nothing is working out I'm just going to close the project.


Closed



-CEO Aideed
-Armed Forces Research and Devlopment Dept.

OOC

1. I like the artistry of the first aircraft.

superficially it looks a bit like the firefox from the movie about 10/15 years ago, however I agree with some of the criticism about the design.

http://uk.geocities.com/hindgunship/moviepic.htm

maybe you can work on that design and change the role.

say a A6 or warthog type aircraft for the 21st century.

speed about 1500 km/hr, payload about 20,000 lb, range about 1000 km, STOL from carrier,

purpose HI LO HI strike aircraft, fit it out with a 30mm multibarrel gatling, say a typical weapon mix for A/S would be 2 IR AAMs, and 2 RG AAMs for self defence and the usual ECM, chaff, flares etc, the rest of the payload would be stuff like 500lb bombs, cluster bombs, rocket backs, radar guided missiles, anti radar missiles etc for ground attack, or stuff like harpoon for AS warfare.

so give it a max ceiling about 40,000 feet, a top speed around mach 1.2 ish, a bigish payload, make it carrier or base launched, with that type of design you could argue for a carrier launched aircraft

alternatively that or you could argue that you've 'invented' a new alloy that can take the pressure/stress without fatigueing, the design looks like it could be highly manouverable.

the engine would just need to be around 20k lb to 30k lb thrust, and you'll need a tonne of fuel, maybe underwing tanks? it specs out on your amended data similar type of aircraft to say an fA18c/F4 Phantom type of aircraft.

your new allow would allow you to take the heat and pressure from an unaerodynamic shape.

you can still argue for your design, just change the story!


2. the second design looks like a high altitude long range bomber, you could argue for a high altitude vehichle, 4 30,000 lb thrust jets, with a monster payload around 50,000 lb, and a barrel of self defence equipment, reminds me a bit about experiment bombers that were USAAF were trying 50 years ago

the xb35/ b49 aircraft (sorry went away to do some research, here are some piccies)

http://www.russian.ee/~star/air/usa/northrop_xb-35.html
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Frederick2000/B2/Flypast/
http://www.allwoodwings.com/6-OtherModels/02-SpecialAircraft/003-UniqueAircraft/YRB-49.htm

I would say development costs would be about 100 to 150 billion dollars (so trillions is a bit much) (It gets expensive when there are more chiefs in the kitchen, one envisiages a highly manouverable tactical fighter/intercepter, another looks for a multi role fighter/strike air craft, and another looks at a fighter bomber so you end up with things like jaguars, eurofighters and tornadoes which are top aircraft, but neither one thing or another.

unit costs for the b2 is about 2 billion, the JSF is expected to cost about 100m each, and an f18 will set you back about 50 million, so I think you can keep it down a bit more than it is.

Locked per author's request.