NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: Alright

Title: Legionnaire

Role: Main Battle Tank

Armament -

Turret Mounted: 135 mm ETC main gun with co-axial 7.62mm machine gun and a TOW missile pack is located on the rear of the turret.

Smoke launchers.

.50 Caliber machine gun

Hull Mounted: 20mm Rotary Vulcan cannon

Method of Reload: Autoloader

Armour:
The Legonnaire's primary layer of Armour is a layer of 35cm of steel. The second layer is;
10 Cm of Tungsten
20 Cm of Boron carbide, Silicon carbide, Aluminium oxide (Sapphire), or Titanium boride (5 Cm of each)
Compacted together to form a 15 Cm Layer of Armour effective against HEAT rounds. The secondary layer is layered between the primary Steel Armour.
Speed –

Max Road Speed: 45 MPH

Max Off Road Speed: 36 MPH

Cruise: 20 MPH

Propulsion/Engine:

3 Union corp. Hydrogen/Gas turbines (2800 HP)

Additional Systems:

SAWRM Drone System

Light Detection and Range (LIDAR)

GDPS Infrared system

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The Legion will a occupy a role that the armies of The Federal Union were sorely lacking in, that of a main battle tank or MBT, this tank will be able to offer support to infantry when not tackling other MBTs in armored warfare.

The 135mm ETC gun ensures that the tank packs a punch while the co-axial 7.62mm machine gun is the anti-infantry element of turret-based weaponry, the 135mm ETC cannon can accept HEAT, SABOT and standard rounds among some others.

The 135mm ETC gun is fed by an autoloader of Federal manufacture, the autoloader is the bleeding edge of Federal technology, it can feed no less than eight rounds per minute into the firing chamber, resulting in an improving eight shots per minute, this is of course hard to actually do because the turret can be slightly sluggish against fast moving targets in close proximity.

The TOW missile pack on the rear of the turret is only optional but it does add an extra punch for the opening scenes of a battle, however, the TOW missile pack is a relatively easy target, because of this, many crews prefer to take the TOW missile off but an equal amount keep them on for the extra punch.

The smoke launchers are to add helpful protection to a tank that will be used in heavy assaults, the .50 caliber machine gun is mounted on the hatch rim so the commander can fend off infantry should the need arise, this little system has proved invaluable in staving off opportunists when a tank is crippled (broken tracks and the like).

The 50mm “Vulcan” cannon is used for infantry and light vehicular targets, much akin to the Bradley, this weapon is very useful in a multitude of situations, ensuring that the Legionnaire has an excellent repertoire of weaponry for any situation.

The Armour is five layers thick, the first layer being about 20cm of MKIV Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA), the second layer is 10cm of Rolled Homogenous armour (RHA), the third is 10cm of super hardened composite (SCHA), the fourth is another 10cm of RHA and the fifth and final is another 10cm of the hardened composite, the diagram below should help you if my description failed to tell you this accurately.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/Kriegorgrad/TFUarmourTank.jpg

Now for some shots of the Legionnaire in action.

[b]A Legionnaire Main Battle Tank in training exercises.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/Kriegorgrad/m1a2-001.jpg



A Legionnaire Battle Tank on patrol in hostile territory.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/Kriegorgrad/m1A2-2.jpg

Where is the fifty calibre located? Coaxial or Anti Air?

Its mounted Foward on the hull so no .

That would be co-axial I believe. On a side note have you moved to modern tech TFU?

45 MPH with 60 CM of armor?

Also, 50 mm vulcan cannon?

[May I ask why you're using rolled homogenous armour? Furthermore, what is SHCA?]

OOC: TFU seemed to forget to mention that I (Kriegorgrad) helped make this tank. The SHCA is the acronym we made up for "super hardened composite armour", we were running low on ideas and decided "super hardened" would make it seem...well...harder!

And Kahta, it's more 40 cm because ERA isn't that heavy (to my knowledge) but then again, I may be completely wrong, also, remember that only 20 cm of the armour is actually steel.

And we used Rolled Homogenous armour for the simple fact that it is simply, easy to produce in bulk and won't get screamed GODMOD at.

And Skeelzania, he has always RPed modern tech as well as future tech, it can be quite confusing at times for those unfamiliar with TFU and his ways.

[You don't want to harden composites or ceramics, that makes them very brittle and easy to break. What you want to do is take sheets of ceramics or composites and compress them together until they form one cohesive sheet. If you can take sheets of compressed composites or ceramics and compress them even further into a single sheet, you're in business. However, you can't really go beyond that using the compression method, beyond that you have to start working at the molecular level manipulating the structure of groups of atoms.

If you still want to use steel, go with a Dual-Phase Steel. It's a lot tougher than regular RHA and it's completely modern tech. I'd also suggest that if you want to move away from steel you go to Wikipedia and start making notes on every atom and their properties. If you have a base understanding of chemistry it shouldn't be too hard to come up with alloys that'll serve well as armour. Personally, my standard armour is this:
Anti-KE: Two parts Titanium, one part Molybdenum, and one part Osmium.
Anti-HEAT: Copper-Carbide honeycomb filled with ablating ceramics.

Perfectly modern tech and very capable, I came up with that in about three days while searching for ways to improvie the standard Chobham/Dorchester scheme.]

We will buy 2 of them.
*MONEY WIRED UPON CONFIRMATION*

-CR Ruling Council-

OOC: To add my two cents, a hull-mounted 20mm rotary cannon would be of little use compared to the space such a gun takes up. It would have to run approx 2/3 the length of the vehicle, taking up room for crew, ammo, electronics, or fuel.

Since such a weapon is usually used by aircraft to hit soft targets such as aircraft, infantry, or trucks and such, it's impractical. The reason aircraft use rotary guns is because they need to get as many rounds onto an area in as little time as possible, since they will only be pointed at the target for a few seconds. Your tank, however, will have line of sight against any such targets for much longer. Might I suggest removing the cannon from the hull, and if you want the cannon firepower capability (somewhat more capable than a .50), mount a single-barrel 20mm cannon on a pintle, or even a 35mm auto grenade laucher. Hell, mount both, one for the commander and one for the gunner/loader. You'll be able to kill as many things, but with more room for the hull.

(well thats true .. i might look in to that .)

Name M65

Role Medium Tank

Picture
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/m60/images/m60_tank5.jpg
Armament:
115 mm ETC Gun, Rifled
Coaxial 7.62mm MG
Anti Air 12.7mm MG
4x TOW AT Missiles
2x Smoke Launchers

The TOW 2 missiles are fixed to the turret.

Capacity
59 rounds 115mm APDS/HEAT
2,500 7.62mm
1,500 12.7mm

Armour
The M65’s primary layer of Armour is a layer of 30mm (3cm) of steel. The second layer is;
24mm of Tungsten
30mm of Boron carbide, Silicon carbide, Aluminium oxide (Sapphire), and Titanium boride (6mm of each)
Compacted together to form a 15mm Layer of Armour effective against HEAT rounds. The secondary layer is layered between the primary Steel Armour.

Engine
The Continental AVDS-1790-2C 14 cylinder air-cooled diesel engine provides 750 bhp at a rotational speed of 2,400rpm. The M65 achieves a maximum cross-country speed of 10mph to 20 mph and up to 30-40 mph roadspeed. The cruise range is 312 miles.
The vehicle is able to negotiate vertical steps up to 37 inches, gradients up to 60% and side slopes up to 30%. The tank can cross water up to 48in in depth without preparation and up to 90in in depth using the fording kit.
Specifics
Height: 130 inches
Width: 146 inches
Weight: 48.8 tonnes

Might I ask why you would use a rifle gun on your M65. Although rifled guns do increase accuracy, they do not support a HEAT round or SABOT.

Just curious...

Might I suggest removing the cannon from the hull, and if you want the cannon firepower capability (somewhat more capable than a .50), mount a single-barrel 20mm cannon on a pintle, or even a 35mm auto grenade laucher. Hell, mount both, one for the commander and one for the gunner/loader. You'll be able to kill as many things, but with more room for the hull.

GAH. Do NOT build a modernised M3 Lee.

Bump zzzz

The actual thickness of the armor on the vehicles is too great. RL tanks don't have armor much more than 200-300mm thick, all layers combined. It's through sloping and composites that they improve the protection offered to to 800-900+mm of RHA (KE) and up to 1800+mm RHA (CE).
More than that, and you're taking up a rather significant amount of extra weight and space, so you will have to start sacrificing things, like speed, ammunition, and firepower, to even consider it.

Might I ask why you would use a rifle gun on your M65. Although rifled guns do increase accuracy, they do not support a HEAT round or SABOT.

Just curious... Go ask the US when they built the M60, cos that's what it's based off. (I designed it. The m65 anyway)

[You don't want to harden composites or ceramics, that makes them very brittle and easy to break. What you want to do is take sheets of ceramics or composites and compress them together until they form one cohesive sheet. If you can take sheets of compressed composites or ceramics and compress them even further into a single sheet, you're in business. However, you can't really go beyond that using the compression method, beyond that you have to start working at the molecular level manipulating the structure of groups of atoms.

If you still want to use steel, go with a Dual-Phase Steel. It's a lot tougher than regular RHA and it's completely modern tech. I'd also suggest that if you want to move away from steel you go to Wikipedia and start making notes on every atom and their properties. If you have a base understanding of chemistry it shouldn't be too hard to come up with alloys that'll serve well as armour. Personally, my standard armour is this:
Anti-KE: Two parts Titanium, one part Molybdenum, and one part Osmium.
Anti-HEAT: Copper-Carbide honeycomb filled with ablating ceramics.

Perfectly modern tech and very capable, I came up with that in about three days while searching for ways to improvie the standard Chobham/Dorchester scheme.]

OOC: Thanks for that, that really helps, we'll take this into heavy consideration when designing the next tank in this series, thanks, also, I haven't studied too much advanced science yet (year 9) but I hope to learn about this alot more next year, thanks!

The actual thickness of the armor on the vehicles is too great. RL tanks don't have armor much more than 200-300mm thick, all layers combined. It's through sloping and composites that they improve the protection offered to to 800-900+mm of RHA (KE) and up to 1800+mm RHA (CE).
More than that, and you're taking up a rather significant amount of extra weight and space, so you will have to start sacrificing things, like speed, ammunition, and firepower, to even consider it.

This was also taken into account, I asked him if he would have less armour but he didn't want to because he wants this tank to fill the heavy-main-battle-tank role of his military.

Go ask the US when they built the M60, cos that's what it's based off. (I designed it. The m65 anyway)

The original M60 used a rifle gun as at the time guns simply didn't generate the velocities needed to make best use of SABOT ammo and most tank action was faught using HEAT ammo.

The only modern tank to still use a rifled gun is the challenger 2 and is only retained as it provides better long range acurracy when using cheap HESH rounds agaisnt biudlings and older T-series tanks, if the Uk MoD ever thought it would be facing modern tanks any tiem soon you coudl bet that the challenger 2 regunning project would become a number 1 priority.

For firing SABOT roudns Smoothbore is defiantly the way to go esspecailly if yous tart throwing ETC into the mix...

The actual thickness of the armor on the vehicles is too great. RL tanks don't have armor much more than 200-300mm thick, all layers combined. It's through sloping and composites that they improve the protection offered to to 800-900+mm of RHA (KE) and up to 1800+mm RHA (CE).
More than that, and you're taking up a rather significant amount of extra weight and space, so you will have to start sacrificing things, like speed, ammunition, and firepower, to even consider it.


You might be right .. though if this is going to be a heavy main battle tank it would have to be heavily armored. How much would you suggest I put on there?

You might be right .. though if this is going to be a heavy main battle tank it would have to be heavily armored. How much would you suggest I put on there?
A well-sloped 300mm steel plate can still provide protection equivalent to many modern MBTs (at least against KE) when done properly. If you provide 200-300mm of armor, all well sloped in the front, and of composite construction, you can easily meet or exceed any modern MBT. However, when you get that much armor, something might have to give.

Consider that the maximum actual armor protection of even Vietnam-era tanks can be over twice what the thickness of the plate is (the M60 had 120mm of steel armor, but 250mm of armor protection). Excellent sloping may provide protection up to 2.5-3+ times that of the actual thickness, and composites can increase this a bit further, though the exact level I can't say.
The best armored tanks today have maximum protection estimated at up to 900-960mm vs KE, and 1700-1920mm vs CE (aka HEAT). These are mainly the big western models (Leclerc, Leopard 2A5, M1A2, Challenger 2). Smaller eastern tanks like Soviet/Russian and Chinese T-90, T-80U, and Type 98, are estimated to have have about 780-850mm vs KE and 1000-1600mm VS CE, and that's including the reactive armor.