NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: VPs Vehicles storefront can be found HERE (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11272579#post11272579)

All equipment designed by VP and/or associates is copyright protected. All rights reserved.

Please do own Maths, any nation that does not do their own maths will have a "tax" put onto the price, this will vary depending upon the level of the maths required.

I reserve the right not sell to any nation if i choose so, for IC Reasons, although if there are OOC reasons also, although i hope to never have to do that.

Military Budgets are based upon www.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy, if for any reason this does not work then i shall judge your budget upon a total 15% of your governments money, based upon http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php?

Thats basically it, other than: THERE IS MORE TO COME, NOT ONLY LAND WEAPONS!

Rifles (best weapons at end of list):

M-14, rifle and sniper: $300
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m14.htm
This weapon has been improved specifically for export so that your nation may enjoy a sturdy riffle, at a cheap price.

M16A2 Rifle: $550
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m16.htm

M4A1 Carbine: $550
A better close combat capability than the M-16A2. Can be upgraded to 35 round magazines.

AK-108- the venerable AK range has improved!
Price:$600

Individual Combat Weapon (OICW)
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/oicw.htm
Price: $1200

XM8-$750
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m8-oicw.htm

Grenade Launchers:

M203 40mm Grenade Launcher-$500(Due to stock surplus)
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m203.htm
Ammunition types fired: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/40.htm

Shotguns:

12-gauge Shotgun-$150
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/12-gauge.htm

Pistols:

M9 9 mm Beretta Pistol-$220
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m9.htm

.38 Caliber Pistol-$220
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/38-cal.htm

Sub-Machine Guns:

M249 Light Machine Gun-$3900
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m249.htm

M1928A1 Tommy Gun- the classic SMG! Only $90!
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1928.htm
CCWS:

MP-5A4 Heckler and Koch 9mm Submachine Gun- $420
Improved version of MP-5, magazine capacity of 60rounds.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/mp-5n.htm

Mortars:

M120 120mm Mortar- $10,000
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m120.htm

Medium fire support system 135mm Mortar-$35,000

The Mobile Fire Support System (MFSS) is a rifled 135mm mortar system. It is the first remotely fired mortar system, and can be fired from anywhere within range of communication(10KM). The MFSS is equipped with its own Global Positioning System, field radio, fire control computer and radar jamming devices. The turret has power traverse, elevation and auto load capabilities. When the system receives a fire mission over the radio, it can turn, load and fire, within 10 seconds. The system has a range of 10 kilometres and 16 kilometres when using Rocket Assisted Projectiles. The weapon can also be easily airlifted and transported by one Hummer or truck. They may even be carried in some large APC’s.
Minimum range: 200m when being operated by crew, 100m when radio operated.
Maximum range: 16km
Sustained rate of fire: 6Rounds/Min
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/000519-covington-mortar.jpg

Anti Air missile systems:

Mistral-cost $25000
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mistral.htm
An excellent AA missile system for your infantry to protect themselves against helicopters and ground attack aircraft.

OOC: Pricing for Mistral estimate, could not find exact price details.

Bump! Also just taking this space so i can use it to post new stuff later if i make this any bigger, im working on some new stuff already!

First 10 Nations to purchase from here get a 5% discount!

Firstly, the Taiwanese Islands would like to congragulate the Vast Principles on the opening of its storfront. We hope our two nations will form a healthy working relationship in the future.

Next, with the Senate approving the National Total Armament Programme, the Taiwanese Island Government wishes to place orders for the following equipments:

1.) 100 million M9 9 mm Beretta Pistol
2.) 50 million MP-5A4 Heckler and Koch 9mm Submachine Gun
3.) 30 million M-14
4.) 20 million M4A1 Carbine
5.) 30 million Remington 870 (12-gauge Shotgun)
6.) 70 million M16A2 Rifle

Which amounts to $119,000,000,000.

Lastly, with Senate approval of the Permanent Military Creation Programme imminent, the Government of the Taiwanese Islands wishes to inquire whether such weapons as the Desert Eagle Pistol, the HK G11 Rifle, the M82 Sniper Rifle and the HK MP5SD10 or MP5SD5 Submachineguns will be avaliable here in the near future.

Firstly, the Taiwanese Islands would like to congragulate the Vast Principles on the opening of its storfront. We hope our two nations will form a healthy working relationship in the future.

Next, with the Senate approving the National Total Armament Programme, the Taiwanese Island Government wishes to place orders for the following equipments:

1.) 100 million M9 9 mm Beretta Pistol
2.) 50 million MP-5A4 Heckler and Koch 9mm Submachine Gun
3.) 30 million M-14
4.) 20 million M4A1 Carbine
5.) 30 million Remington 870 (12-gauge Shotgun)
6.) 70 million M16A2 Rifle

Which amounts to $119,000,000,000.

Lastly, with Senate approval of the Permanent Military Creation Programme imminent, the Government of the Taiwanese Islands wishes to inquire whether such weapons as the Desert Eagle Pistol, the HK G11 Rifle, the M82 Sniper Rifle and the HK MP5SD10 or MP5SD5 Submachineguns will be avaliable here in the near future.

Could i suggest to you that you cut back on your order somewhat? Only 5% of your population(max) should be in the military, that means only around 6.9million in your armed forces. this being said, your Civilian population could use weapons also.

Therefore, upon that information, for ALL your military to be armed with M9 9 mm Beretta Pistols, and with space for growth in the military, i would say around 8million, or 10million if you are going to use them in the police/civilian forces.

Your men in your Airforce and Navy will not all need Riffles, so lets say 6million riffles, of different types, to allow for growth. The riffle types are up to you to decide upon the types. The shotguns and MP-5A4s can be bought in the numbers you want, but i would not go further than buying 1million of the shotguns and 2million of the MP-5s, although it is up to yourself to decide, different nations like different army types.

Also, you could probably do with some machine guns and mortars(up to you). If you are interested then please say.

Answer to your question: If you want these weapons then i shall certainly look into the production and sale of these weapons. Our industry is more than capable of producing guns of such sizes.

Lastly, with Senate approval of the Permanent Military Creation Programme imminent, the Government of the Taiwanese Islands wishes to inquire whether such weapons as the Desert Eagle Pistol, the HK G11 Rifle, the M82 Sniper Rifle and the HK MP5SD10 or MP5SD5 Submachineguns will be avaliable here in the near future.

Maybe you could GASP! make them yourself! Never thought of that did you..... anyway, nice storefront.

The word is rifle plural rifles

"My purpose in life, has been fufilled."

In the English language you can't use commas in that way.

The word is rifle plural rifles
If your going to get all grammarical.. (is that word? lol)

"The word that should have been used is rifle.. The Plural is rifles."

im not getting grammatical, just spellorific :)
its very annoying to read "riffles" about half dozen times.
I dont give two shits and half a piss about grammar...


and, I, can use, commas, how, ever, I like, its, used to, show, a, pause, in, the, phrase, so, bite, me. :D

OOC: Thanks for the bumpage, and the thread hijacking :p , lol. Howgsweat, did you read that post of mine about your signature...i think the MODs deleted it(an insult to you).

Maybe you could GASP! make them yourself! Never thought of that did you..... anyway, nice storefront.
SHHHHH!

lol, i'll make some trully origional weapons when i get the time, i have some vehicles ligned up already (MBT, AAAV eetc, and ships/aircraft if i can be bothered to learn more about them)

Umm you wrote the M4 has a shorter barrel AND is more accurate than the M16. I think you need to get your facts right, yes it does have a shorter barrel but it is by no means more accurate (generally longer barrel length means better accuracy), its also cheaper to produce than the M16.

Could i suggest to you that you cut back on your order somewhat? Only 5% of your population(max) should be in the military, that means only around 6.9million in your armed forces. this being said, your Civilian population could use weapons also.

Therefore, upon that information, for ALL your military to be armed with M9 9 mm Beretta Pistols, and with space for growth in the military, i would say around 8million, or 10million if you are going to use them in the police/civilian forces.

Your men in your Airforce and Navy will not all need Riffles, so lets say 6million riffles, of different types, to allow for growth. The riffle types are up to you to decide upon the types. The shotguns and MP-5A4s can be bought in the numbers you want, but i would not go further than buying 1million of the shotguns and 2million of the MP-5s, although it is up to yourself to decide, different nations like different army types.

Also, you could probably do with some machine guns and mortars(up to you). If you are interested then please say.

Answer to your question: If you want these weapons then i shall certainly look into the production and sale of these weapons. Our industry is more than capable of producing guns of such sizes.

I can see why there are confusions. Allow me to clarify: the National Total Armament Programme intends to provide basic armaments to all our citizens. This is because currently our nation has virtually no army, and the Senate refuses to endorse any land force above the size of 5 divisions. Those weapons were intended to equip a population of 150 million.

Thus our previous order still stands; please confirm the purchase.

Maybe you could GASP! make them yourself! Never thought of that did you..... anyway, nice storefront.

Unfortunately, our nation has had very limited experience and capacity in terms of modern weapons. We are currently funding a project that would hopefully allow Taiwanese Islands to become self-sufficient in basic arms in the near future, but before then we would not want our country to be defenseless.

Umm you wrote the M4 has a shorter barrel AND is more accurate than the M16. I think you need to get your facts right, yes it does have a shorter barrel but it is by no means more accurate (generally longer barrel length means better accuracy), its also cheaper to produce than the M16.

OOC: In general yes, but that isnt always the case(please dont ask for examples), from what i read the M-4 is more accurate but i will check on that when i get the chance.

Also, with the cheaper thing, i'll check that out soon also...

IC: Taiwanese Islands, order CONFIRMED, we thankyou for being our FIRST customer, and we hope you enjoy our range of weapons we are sending to you. The order will take some time to complete as we do not have that many weapons readily available, that you want your citizens to use them is a mystery to us.

OOC: DISCOUNT STILL IN PLACE!!!

Come and get your weapons!!! We hope to add more in the near future...

We will like 20 The Mobile Fire Support System (MFSS) please ;)

id like to buy 1,000,000 for a total 10,000,000,000 money wired opon comfirmation

Would you mind not posting your orders retardedly and actually do it with a bit of RP?

Would you mind not posting your orders retardedly and actually do it with a bit of RP?

me.......huh...wtf i just wanta order a million mortors im not gonna rp

"the goverment of revertromance would like to aquire from the Hogsweat national milatary 1 million motors for a total of 10 billion USD. The aquisition of which should be hurried for boh intrests"

........... :rolleyes:

me.......huh...wtf i just wanta order a million mortors im not gonna rp

"the goverment of revertromance would like to aquire from the Hogsweat national milatary 1 million motors for a total of 10 billion USD. The aquisition of which should be hurried for boh intrests"

........... :rolleyes:
I'm not even the guy selling here. Your obviously a bad RPer if you can't be bothered to RP the transaction of weapons.

FUCK U
Get on AIM, I'll show you how to do transactions

IC: Bunny Eaters, order confirmed.

OOC: RevertRomance: what do you want 1million of? lol, anyway, a bit of RP is good, especcialy when you have more posts than me ;)

Hogsweat, thanks for looking out for my storefront, its quite useful! I owe you one(just call on H2 for help once ciivil war is over that is).

:upyours: isnt that a cool smilie? :)

Ah, how delightfully archaic. The XM8 and OICW? Well, they're nowhere near our S411s, but we'll take some of each, take away their ability to fire, and sell them as civilian collector models (ooc:Kind of like the NRA sells M1's, right?).


One Thousand XM8's: USD 750,000
Five Hundred OICW's: USD 625,000

Total: USD 1,375,000.

What can I say? We have a lot of spare cash collecting dust. :P

ooc: Oh, bugger, forgot to re-login as TOR.

I'd like to buy 2000 of your XM8 rifles for my AA infantry units (750$*500 man unit*4 units=) 1,500,000 for now. Will wire cash upon completion of delivery.

Thanks. Is there any chance that you will be stocking up on Shoulder Based AA Weapons? If so I would open a contract with Vast Principiles Infantry Weapons Storefront for export of such items. I'm looking for either British or Soviet type, or possibly home made, technology. Or even Chinese.

OOC: Btw, your MSN.. if you ever get it working add me at matt.labunda@gmail.com

Please post the link of where you read the M4 was more accurate

Gilabad will buy
-100,000,000 MP5s 70,000,000,000$
-100,000,000 M4A1s 6,000,000,000$

TOTAL
76,000,000,000$

Gilabad will buy
-100,000,000 MP5s 70,000,000,000$
-100,000,000 M4A1s 6,000,000,000$

TOTAL
76,000,000,000$

Order Confirmed, Please come again!

EDIT:- OOC: Pricing changed for M4A1s, we would like to ask what the M-4s are for so that we may change them if they are to be used for longer range fighting, as i now see that they are not better at longer ranges.

NEW ANTI-AIR MISSILES TO BE ADDED!(shoulder launched!)


Anarresa: It appears you may well be correct, i shall look into this soon, but upon new information it appears the M-4 is actually an variant of the M-16 to be used as a submachine gun, although i have yet to confirm wther this ios correct or not.

We would like to open an Import deal with Vast Principles for the production of The Mistral Class Shoulder Launched AA Missile. We require these models for extensive use in our armed forces. initial trade dealings, would be at at suggested;
1000 Of These Arms Per Week; for a cost of
$350,000
Until the sufficient order of 20,000 units has been delivered. What do you say to this?

OOC: Pricing for weapons changed, all orders for the M-4, M-16 etc changed, money refunded!
Sorry for any inconvinience caused!

Hogsweat:- Hmmm, let me see, if you give me an excuse for it then i can get them to you cheaper, reason being, $350,000 a week is actually wrong(my fault, sorry). Actual cost per week would be at $2,500,000, quite a lot more than you thought(sorry).

With an excuse i can easilly cut that down to lets say 2million a week(max). That excuse could be perhaps that we make a deal so that you produce some of the weapons for me, and i send you the manufaturing facilities needed perhaps?

ooc: Vast, might want to check out http://www.colt.com/mil/home.asp

BUMP!!!


ooc: Vast, might want to check out http://www.colt.com/mil/home.asp

OOC: Thx, but i dont really need that link right now(do I...???) if i do please tell me, i would like to know if ive done something wrong but i dont have the time right now to look properly...lol

BUMP!!! Second today! haha

OOC: The M4 was created because the M16 was too much based around a marksman principla, the M4 is smaller, easier to operate and easier to clean and maintain. Its better for the grunt on the ground who isn't going to be hitting targets at 550 meters (the effictive range of the M16). The M4 isn't a submachine gun, thats a totaly different class of firearms, but a more useful assault rifle.

Bump

Recently a bunch of gold coins were dumped into HoL along with some democrats that another state didn't want. A group of quick-thinking mercenaries put the new visitors to work digging the coins out of the daiperswamp (not a nice place).
So now we have some cash to spend. We would like 12 OICWs please. I estimate each of the gold coins at roughly $500 and we retrieved 40 of them.
Can you make up the rest of the order with ammunition?

Thank you

The Red Draco infantry team.

Recently a bunch of gold coins were dumped into HoL along with some democrats that another state didn't want. A group of quick-thinking mercenaries put the new visitors to work digging the coins out of the daiperswamp (not a nice place).
So now we have some cash to spend. We would like 12 OICWs please. I estimate each of the gold coins at roughly $500 and we retrieved 40 of them.
Can you make up the rest of the order with ammunition?

Thank you

The Red Draco infantry team.

Order Confirmed, but i would suggest that you purchase M-16s/M-4s in greater numbers for your military at a later date. Thankyou for purchase, i hope we may have a fruitful exports relationship!

I would like to inquire on the availability of Tactical Nuclear Weapons from your Storefront. Something small and light, (10 mega ton range) that may be worn on my belt. Also would ask for recommendation for arming responsible children between the ages of ten and five years.
Thank you for your time.

An armed society is a polite society.
:sniper:

Radlett wishes to buy for her modest army:

5,000 M-14 riflles, totalling $150,000
20 OICW's, totalling $24,000
6,000 Beretta pistols, totalling $132,000
3,000 Tommy guns, totalling $27,000
10 mortars, totalling $200,000
and 3 Mistrals, totalling $75,000

All in all, the total cost being $608,000. The cash is in the post. Leave weapons on the doorstep of our millitary base.

Hot Hot Hate would like to purchase the following:

17,500 M4A1 rifles(Cost: $9,625,000)
20,000 M9 Beretta pistols(Cost: $4,400,000)

Total: $14,025,000

Money will be wired upon confirmation.

Orders confirmed,

Ten Ring- for your children to be armed they would have to be using a very low caliber weapon, something which i do not currently sell here. However, if the need be, my Weapon designers could come up with something to stop our pistols having to much of a force pushing back on these children. We strongly advise you do not give children weapons.

As for the 10MT warhead, TG me about it, if you are willing to RP it i can sort something out for you, or if you do not RP we will have to wait untill you reach a population of 100million. I will also not be held responsible for your actions!

Disclaimer:

Anydamage or harm that may be caused by misuse of our weapons sold here will not be accounted for by ourselves, and we reserve the right not to give out any sum of money upon legal action from other nations.

Thankyou.

BUMP!!!

I am working on a Military Vehicles storefront at the moment, with a multitude of different vehicle types being planned, i am also hoping to receive help on some of my own designs in the near future(none other than CSJ!)

I would like 50 boxes of 34 AK-108 Each.

The Rogue state of Eltaco would like to puchase:

10 Mortars (100 000)
200 000 Tommy Guns (18 million)

Total cost ($18 100 000.00)

money will be paid once delivery has been made

Orders confirmed, Thankyou for your purchases!

OOC: Hataria, i think i may buy some stuff from you if i like your storefront(vehicles or something), especcaily with your bussiness here!

BUMP, orders are going down a bit!

BUMP, work on the vehicles storefront continues! I am also receiving help with some of my own vehicles, so if your patient good things should come soon!!!

BUMP!

Sorry, im logged in as H2, not sure how too log out(normally by going through NS it works fine, thats what i did, i was logged on as VP...)

Anyway, please buy, top quality weapons here only!!!

Vast Principles Store,

I am a peace-loving prosperous democratic nation over 600 million in Craigerock residing in the Allied Democratic Nations region. One nation in my region, Shalrirorchia, has nuked the Capitol cities of 4 nations in my region, including my own. He has invaded Lubilijana and has threatened to invade Craigerock. My defense budget has been 0% but my nation has authorized deficit spending for the purpose of arming our populous with small arms to defend our nation against this possible invasion. This invasion could take place within days, so my request is urgent and so is my need for immediate delivery if possible. My ownly hope for national survival at this point is to make my nation a possible unwinnable conflict for this foe and make his adventure a quagmire. I am willing to pay an additional premium of 30% for immediate cargo airlift delivery to my nation. Your assistance is greatly appreciated. Do you also contract out factory-level training and support?

http://aldemonat.proboards31.com/index.cgi?action=recent

Sincerely,
Chairman Dougie of the Grand Council of Craigerock


This shopping list is attached below:

100000 AK-108- Price:$600
Extended Price: $60m

500000 M9 9 mm Beretta Pistol-$220
Extended Price: $110m

100000 .38 Caliber Pistol-$220
Extended Price: $22m

100000 M249 Light Machine Gun-$3900
Extended Price: $390m

100000 MP-5A4 Heckler and Koch 9mm Submachine Gun- $420
Extended Price: $42m

10000 M120 120mm Mortar- $10,000
Extended Price: $100m

2000 Medium fire support system 135mm Mortar-$35,000
Extended Price: $70m

20000 M203 40mm Grenade Launcher-$500
Extended Price: $10m

20000 12-gauge Shotgun-$150
Extended Price: $3m

600 Mistral-cost $25000
Extended Price: $15m

MATERIAL TOTAL: $822m
DELIVERY $246.6m
GRAND TOTAL $1,068,600,000

IC: Order confirmed.

We shall ship weapons at a price increase of only 7.5% immediatly by air under escort. Details of flights have been sent.

We advise you to buy less of the M249 Light Machine Guns, instead incrase the ammount of AK-108s(which we have included grenade launchers on) and cancel the order for 40mm grenade launchers unless needed for western/US military weapons(M-16, M-4 etc).

Basic WEAPONS training can be provided, these are courses for a small ammount of your troops to be qualified as instructors on the ordered weapons. FULL Military training for Infantry is not catered for at the current time, although we can upon request give you links to other corporations and nations who would be happy to aid you upon request.

Thankyou for your order,
All Steel Corporation, VP.

OOC: Link to my Vehicles section will be posted soon so you can get tanks etc if needed(please look!)

Link to Vehicles storefront Posted in the FIRST POST, so check it out!

The military of Shiaze will purchase:
12,000 tommy guns for $1,080,000
12,000 M-14s* for $3,600,000
*3,000 of those M-14s are snipers, the other 9,000 are regular rifles.

IC: Order confirmed.

We shall ship weapons at a price increase of only 7.5% immediatly by air under escort. Details of flights have been sent.

We advise you to buy less of the M249 Light Machine Guns, instead incrase the ammount of AK-108s(which we have included grenade launchers on) and cancel the order for 40mm grenade launchers unless needed for western/US military weapons(M-16, M-4 etc).

Basic WEAPONS training can be provided, these are courses for a small ammount of your troops to be qualified as instructors on the ordered weapons. FULL Military training for Infantry is not catered for at the current time, although we can upon request give you links to other corporations and nations who would be happy to aid you upon request.

Thankyou for your order,
All Steel Corporation, VP.

OOC: Link to my Vehicles section will be posted soon so you can get tanks etc if needed(please look!)

IC:
All Steel Corporation,
It has been a pleasure to place an order with your store.

I will make the adjustments you recommended. Those are excellent recommendations.

Cancel the order for M203 Grenade launchers: Savings $10m
Reduce the order of M249 Light Machine Guns to 10000: Savings $351m
TOTAL SAVINGS: $361m

Increase the order of Ak-108s by an additional 600,000: Additional cost: $360m

OVERALL NET SAVINGS $1m.

I am also interested in obtaining BASIC weapon training for prospective instructors. How much would you charge for about 60 Senior Enlisted Instructors? My nation is not very safe right now, so I would like to fly them to your nation for training if possible, or a third nation if needed. All facilities will be needed for this group; lodging, messing, local transportation, training site, etc.? Would the remaining $1m be able to cover these expenses? Thank you.

Sincerely,
Dougie
Chairman of the Grand Council of Craigerock

OOC: Thats a good idea Craigerock, if you need help just ask, ive not got much better to do!

IC:

Shiaze- Your order is confirmed, you have made quite a wise choice as far as we can see(your defence budget isnt to high, although you could spend more) and this is a great starter for a military, or as an improvement for troops. If you upgrade your infantry further please look at our best riffles(such as the XM8, OICW) for the best weapons available.

Craigerock- Your new order is confirmed. We are sorry to see that your governments military spending is so low, we believe that a strong mlitary will keep your nation safe from any threats that you may come accross.

Your training for your prospective instructors shall be undertaken immediatly upon Vast Principles Military training grounds, and we are willing to train 5% of the total ammount of your military being equiped with weapons purchased here, for the $1million that has already been received(extra). These instructors will be transported by air by the aircraft used to take your purchased equipment to you.

All prices will be included at no extra price. We hope you realise that this is a large undertaking upon our part and hold that in consideration in the future(we would like to strengthen bonds between our nations).

Weapons have been shiped, thay can ALL be expected very soon, we are though having to divert shipments of the AK-108s from sale to our civilian population, police and reserve forces.

interesting store front VP. By the way, might I suggest to add a little bit more pictures in? It would greatly improve the store front. To bad I can't buy anything given that I'm only future tech.

Powellicus would like to purchase the following:

100 x M203 40mm Grenade Launchers $50,000
100 x MP-5A4 Heckler and Koch 9mm Submachine Guns $42,000
100 x .38 Caliber Pistol $22,000
700 x M16A2 Rifles $385,000

Grand Total - $499,000

Money wired on confirmation

We have a very small defense budget. NSEconomy rounds .4% down to 0% which explains why out of our total government budget of $2.6 Trillion, our defense spending is only $10.5 billion dollars. We have only spent slightly over $1 billion so far in your store and we are looking at the best way to spend our remaining resources in this budget to defend our nation against a possible attack from an enemy armed to his teeth. We would not be able to defeat him except to harass him to leave us alone. If you have any suggestions within this budget we would be willing to consider it. Thanks for all your help. If this budget is well spent we may be able to convince our Council to spend more in the next budget year on military equipment and personnel accounts.

Sincerely,
Chairman Dougie of the Grand Council of Craigerock

IC: Powellicus, thankyou for your bussiness, we are glad you have bought our weapons, both vehicles and riffles! The weapons are being shipped immediatly(all by air to make sure you get your troops armed) and some training for instructors will be included.

Secret Message

To: Chairman Dougie of the Grand Council of Craigerock.
From: Vast Principles Joint Services Tactical Annalysis dep.

Dear sir,

With your Budget of $9billion we would suggest you look at your navy. We would suggest that you expand upon a subamire defence network, including ballistic missile Submarines to act as a detterant to any future enemies.

This force should consist of several SSBNs, such as of the Ohio class, although these are expensive. They should be supported by Such Submarines as the Sea-Wolf class or Loas-angeles Class attack subarines.

Unfortunatly the Ohio costs a total of $1,200,000,000, therefore taking over 10% of your budget. Our advice is therefore to instead take several out on loan until your budget can cope with these costs.

We would be more than willing to supply you with a COMPLETE submarine fleet (around 25-30 subamrines) on loan for a varying ammount of time and at a small price compared to the cost of building of a completely new Subamarine fleet.

We Further reccomend that you build a home dfence fleet, or purchase one. These can vary in size, but as the threat to you seems quite large and your nation of a considerable size quick estimations would suggest it would compromise of two or more Super carriers, if only 2 super carriers several light carriers, 2 battleships and an unspecified number of cruisers, destroyers and frigates.

Again, the pricing for a super carrier is significantly high, at $4.5billion each, although they vary upon the exact age of production. Older vessels with older EW systems etc cost only $4Billion.

We could compile a fleet taking ships from our own navy for you, but this would be expensive still.

If you are interested in this then contact our Naval Department, they can discuss costs with you, and Insurance, if you do go into battle we would have to carry out repairs etc to keep them in service and this can be VERY costly. They could also be destroyed, another thing which would cost a lot.

If you do not like that idea then you could go for used naval ships, they can be cost effective and stay in active service for many more years if younger.

Another option is to purchase Fast Attack craft, these work close to shore to attack enemy fleets using missiles. They are Cheap, comparerativly easy to build and do their job well in large enough numbers. They can be purchased new, although constructions times may be high. These coupled with a small submarine hunter killer force can work well in smaller coasts. Another possibility is to purchase some Missile Cruiser Ships to use in aggresive attacks on enemy nations. This would cost quite a bit, but nowhere near as much as the other options(that i know of) seeing as they would belong to yourself.

IC: Powellicus, thankyou for your bussiness, we are glad you have bought our weapons, both vehicles and riffles! The weapons are being shipped immediatly(all by air to make sure you get your troops armed) and some training for instructors will be included.

Secret Message

To: Chairman Dougie of the Grand Council of Craigerock.
From: Vast Principles Joint Services Tactical Annalysis dep.

Dear sir,

With your Budget of $9billion we would suggest you look at your navy. We would suggest that you expand upon a subamire defence network, including ballistic missile Submarines to act as a detterant to any future enemies.

This force should consist of several SSBNs, such as of the Ohio class, although these are expensive. They should be supported by Such Submarines as the Sea-Wolf class or Loas-angeles Class attack subarines.

Unfortunatly the Ohio costs a total of $1,200,000,000, therefore taking over 10% of your budget. Our advice is therefore to instead take several out on loan until your budget can cope with these costs.

We would be more than willing to supply you with a COMPLETE submarine fleet (around 25-30 subamrines) on loan for a varying ammount of time and at a small price compared to the cost of building of a completely new Subamarine fleet.

We Further reccomend that you build a home dfence fleet, or purchase one. These can vary in size, but as the threat to you seems quite large and your nation of a considerable size quick estimations would suggest it would compromise of two or more Super carriers, if only 2 super carriers several light carriers, 2 battleships and an unspecified number of cruisers, destroyers and frigates.

Again, the pricing for a super carrier is significantly high, at $4.5billion each, although they vary upon the exact age of production. Older vessels with older EW systems etc cost only $4Billion.

We could compile a fleet taking ships from our own navy for you, but this would be expensive still.

If you are interested in this then contact our Naval Department, they can discuss costs with you, and Insurance, if you do go into battle we would have to carry out repairs etc to keep them in service and this can be VERY costly. They could also be destroyed, another thing which would cost a lot.

If you do not like that idea then you could go for used naval ships, they can be cost effective and stay in active service for many more years if younger.

Another option is to purchase Fast Attack craft, these work close to shore to attack enemy fleets using missiles. They are Cheap, comparerativly easy to build and do their job well in large enough numbers. They can be purchased new, although constructions times may be high. These coupled with a small submarine hunter killer force can work well in smaller coasts. Another possibility is to purchase some Missile Cruiser Ships to use in aggresive attacks on enemy nations. This would cost quite a bit, but nowhere near as much as the other options(that i know of) seeing as they would belong to yourself.

Secret Message

To: Vast Principles Joint Services Tactical Analysis Department
cc: Vast Principles Naval Department
From: Chairman Dougie of the Grand Council of Craigerock

I am essentially starting from a Navy of zero. I do have extensive commercial shipping so piloting, repairing steam and gas turbine, and nuclear propulsion operation in ships is no problem, but maritime combat training is still a HUGE problem for my new Navy. I think it better to start with the smaller ships and submarines to give my crews experience and let them move up to larger ships as time goes on. Certainly I also have immediate needs to attend to ensure the survival of my nation.

Given a remaining budget this year of about $9 Billion.

I would like to take two OHIO class submarines out on loan for a period of one year. I would like them fully equipped with ICBMs (obviously I will pay for any that I use (need a price quote please)), fully insured should U.S.S. destroy the submarines. The last request I don't make lightly as it might implicate your nation, but my crew would obviously be green. Would you be able to provide a some technical and military advisors in the key sections of the submarine to make sure my crew can handle the incredible learning curve required to operate an OHIO class submarine? Again, I have nuclear reactor trained personnel, but at commercial reactor plants. The difficult requirement I have timewise is I would hopefully have these two submarines begin patrols within three months if possible, and manned by two alternating crews. I am hoping this nuclear deterrent would be able to prevent an invasion of my nation or force a withdrawal if already began.

If any money is remaining, I would like to order already built small fast attack boats equipped with surface to surface missiles and take delivery also within three months, if possible. My staff is willing to do just about anything to make this happen and on schedule.

Should I be able to ward off this invasion, my nation is also considering making the necessary license agreements to produce armaments in Craigerock. Would your Corporation be interested in using Craigerock's industrial base to produce weapons? While some would be for my domestic use, we could be a supplier for your stores? If you are interested you can contact my Commerce staff directly. We have no restrictions on what you would be allowed to produce as we are an entirely free-market economy with very pro-business labor laws.

Sincerely,
Chairman Dougie of Craigerock

Craigerock, the two OHIO subamrines have been dispatched, they will arrive at one of your naval bases soon. they will only enter your base once payment is received. They will be escorted by a small force including one light carrier.

A force of 25 FAC craft will be dispatched immediatly, and again will enter port once you pay.

We thankyou for your offer for production, although we will not be immediattly taking this offer.

we shall look it over for later use if needed.

OOC: Prices coming soon, and the type of FACs also!

BUMP, to the top again!

The United States of Lokiaa requests:
100 OICW
10 M249
100 Mistral

Total cost: $3,059,000

Craigerock, the two OHIO subamrines have been dispatched, they will arrive at one of your naval bases soon. they will only enter your base once payment is received. They will be escorted by a small force including one light carrier.

A force of 25 FAC craft will be dispatched immediatly, and again will enter port once you pay.

We thankyou for your offer for production, although we will not be immediattly taking this offer.

we shall look it over for later use if needed.

OOC: Prices coming soon, and the type of FACs also!

Thank you, I will await your price quotes.

Lokiaa: An excellent aray of weapons choosen! Please feel free to supplement it at any time(we have vehicles also)

Craigerock: The Ships and Ohios will arive shortly.

Costs for the FACs are as follow:

PHM 1 Pegasus- $20 million each

For 25 cost is $0.5billion. They are being transported by military cargo ships under escort.

Cost for 5 years service of two Ohio class Submarines is $50,000,000 for the operating cost, plus $100,000,000 for the cost of the boats on loan.

Insurance is not covered, cost for destruction of boats would be only $250,000,000 each as they are only 15 years before retirement.

OOC: Reason for 5years on the Ohios is that 1 NS year is seen as one RL day or one RL week. I normally do one RL Day=1NS year, but sometimes it can be changed, for 1year the price will be 5times as less, and the submarines will be different, with only 7years before "retirement".

Vast Principles, Jan 28, 2005

$500m for 25 Fast Attack Craft (Pegasus class)
$150m for 5 yr. lease for two Ohio class submarines

$500m deposit should any boats be destroyed, returnable should the boats be returned in serviceable condition.

Grand total of $1.150 Billion wired to you.

Sincerely,
Contracts and Appropriations Department
Craigerock

Vast Principles, January 29

The Commonwealth of Lubilijana (A close ally of Craigerock) has recently been invaded, and we need to be able to feild more troops as quickly as possible. We currently would like:

8,000 M-14 rifles (1,000 Sniper)- $2,400,000
10,000 Thompson SMG's - $900,000
6,000 Ak-108's- $3,600,000
100 MISTRALS- $2,500,000
40 m120 Mortars- $400,000

Total Cost:
$9,800,000 Dollars.

We need these weapons as soon as possible. We are willing to raise the price as much as 30% to accomodate this request. We may also be requiring more weapons soon. Over 60% of our nation is occupied and in enemy hands, however the Western side (Along the Craigerock Border) is secure.

Thank you for your aid in this time of crisis
-General Robert Mikali
Commander of Military Operations
The Commonwealth of Lubilijana

Your order is confirmed, all weapons shall be shipped immediatly by air under escort by the quickest(safe) route available.

-encrypted-

We would advise you expand upon this order to arm more of your troops quickly, and we shall teach 5% of the total ammount of troops using the weapons on how to use, and instruct, others on these weapons. This course is VERY short and can be done easily in most places.

By the sounds of your situation you could soon be needing to use guerrila tactics. In this case we could cheaply supply you, prior to total invasion, with thousands(perhaps millions) of older weapons, such as the AK47.

Even if you do succed in keeping the remaining land(and gaining more) we still say that a wise precaution to have weapon stashes to use with civilian troops later if necesary is neccesary.

Umm you wrote the M4 has a shorter barrel AND is more accurate than the M16. I think you need to get your facts right, yes it does have a shorter barrel but it is by no means more accurate (generally longer barrel length means better accuracy), its also cheaper to produce than the M16.
Cheaper since it is more likely to jam on you! The M4 is truly a WW2 weapon and not worthy of the modern world! If you want exchange small arms for big arms, ie: ships and vehicles, go to http://omega-the-black.tripod.com/
Mistral is an okay weapon but a little pricy for it's use and the number that would need to be deployed. It is also not that effective against aircraft but deadly to choppers and some incoming missles, kinda like a more effective Patriot. Okay my Naval source says the ship based multi-launcher system is pretty (>= 90%) effective against incoming aircraft. The troop carried version however requires 2 to carry and 60 secs to set-up. In other words you need to know they are coming before they arrive or it is too late.

I'd like to buy

50000- M-14's

Just that for now, more to come.

P.S can someone tell me How to pay for the stuff, I'm new, thanks.

Hail. Tsar Barrik of The Holy Empire of Danite wishes to purchase the following weaponry.

M203 40mm Grenade Launcher x 100,000 ($50,000,000)

Total Price: $50,000,000

These are to be delivered to Pier 31 in Sagret, Isles of Arden.

** Money Wired Upon Confirmation **

Vast Principles

The money has been wired immediately

Thank you for your recommandations. We would indeed love to buy many more rifles for Guerilla warfare (Thats why we bought the Thompons). How much would 60,000 Ak-47's cost?

In addition, to you have any cheap RPG's for use against Armored targets?

-General Robert Mikali
Commander of Military Operations
The Commonwealth of Lubilijana

Cheaper since it is more likely to jam on you! The M4 is truly a WW2 weapon and not worthy of the modern world!

A World War 2 weapon? What? In my opinion, the M4A1 is a more practical design than the M16 itself. If and when the XM8 replaces the M16, the M4 will still be widely used by special forces because of many positive factors.

when the XM8 replaces the M16, the M4 will still be widely used by special forces because of many positive factors.

Nope. US SOCOM had a special rifle competition over the past two years for new rifle designs. What resulted is the FN SCAR (Special Combat Assault Rifle by FN Hernstal) which has the ability to be easily rechambered for 7.62 AK magazines as well as the standard NATO 5.56 round and magazine. Thats what they'll will be using because it eliminates one of the things that hampers special ops from operating for long periods of time without resupply, ammo.

Nope. US SOCOM had a special rifle competition over the past two years for new rifle designs. What resulted is the FN SCAR (Special Combat Assault Rifle by FN Hernstal) which has the ability to be easily rechambered for 7.62 AK magazines as well as the standard NATO 5.56 round and magazine. Thats what they'll will be using because it eliminates one of the things that hampers special ops from operating for long periods of time without resupply, ammo.

No offence, but rechambering? you could start as 5.56 yes, then go to 7.62, but that would mean strengthening it also. if you could have a pull out barrel that would be Very complicated, and take quite a while to change them around.

Spec ops troops generaly carry enough ammo to last them a while!


M203 40mm Grenade Launcher x 100,000

Order Confirmed. Could i ask why you would want these grenade launchers if your not purchasing any M-4s and M-16s? These launchers are designed for use of American Riffles, such as the M4, M16.

I'd like to buy

50000- M-14's

Just that for now, more to come.

P.S can someone tell me How to pay for the stuff, I'm new, thanks.

Order Confirmed, Riffles shall be shipped immediatly.

OOC: Right, well, you basscially do as Danite has done,

Say "[nation/leader etc name] would like to purchase [gun] [quantity].

Money wired upon confirmation."

Thats the basics, some people like to RP it more, and perhaps say have it under escort, by helo to [name place].

If you keep to the basic first idea i said you shouldnt go wrong. But be careful you dont over extend your budget, you can see how much money you get a year at http://www.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.

Look at your defence Budget, dont use more than that mmount of money each day.

Money cant be sent, its near enough your imagination, :D

We currently have a vast number of American weapons, most of which do not have the grenade launchers. Therefore we've bought the grenade launches as accessories.

- Tsar Barrik

Quick switching barrels isn't hard at all if you have the right parts and a good understanding of the weapon. Its even easier when the weapon is designed for it. With that ability you theoretically could have a special ops team operating in enemy territory indefinitley without the need for resupply. Much like how the US deployed its special forces in the mountains of Afganistan before the main invasion, all they then need are batteries for a sattalite phone or other electronic communication device. Besides the SCAR basically has the same simple internal mechanisms as the AK, unlike the less robust M4, so its more durable.

And the M203 can be modified easily to be mounted on most weastern assault rifles. Its not uncommon to see an IDF Galil with an M203 on it.

Quick switching barrels isn't hard at all if you have the right parts and a good understanding of the weapon. Its even easier when the weapon is designed for it. With that ability you theoretically could have a special ops team operating in enemy territory indefinitley without the need for resupply. Much like how the US deployed its special forces in the mountains of Afganistan before the main invasion, all they then need are batteries for a sattalite phone or other electronic communication device. Besides the SCAR basically has the same simple internal mechanisms as the AK, unlike the less robust M4, so its more durable.

And the M203 can be modified easily to be mounted on most weastern assault rifles. Its not uncommon to see an IDF Galil with an M203 on it.

Interesting you should say that. Depending upon terrain it would be quite easily possible for troops well trained in survival and bushcraft to do well of the land, and theoretically if their getting ammo from enemy soldiers they kill food, water etc would be redily available.

I shall have to look into this new weapon, sounds interesting!

A World War 2 weapon? What? In my opinion, the M4A1 is a more practical design than the M16 itself. If and when the XM8 replaces the M16, the M4 will still be widely used by special forces because of many positive factors.
True the M4 is a more reliable weapon than the M16 in some regards.
M16 is more acurate and reliable in battle.
M4 requires far less maintainance than the M16.

If you are looking for a weapon that can be used in all enviroments, is cheap and is easily cleaned in the field go with the AK series. No serious military is still arming their soldiers with the M4 though.

No offence, but rechambering? you could start as 5.56 yes, then go to 7.62, but that would mean strengthening it also. if you could have a pull out barrel that would be Very complicated, and take quite a while to change them around.

Spec ops troops generaly carry enough ammo to last them a while!
1. rechambered weapons have actually been around since WW2 and with the tools and supplies can be done in the feild as quickly as the weapon can be broken down or even fast depending on the type. The Checs have a SAW the the stock just rotates out to the side you slide the barrel out and slide the new one in, 2 min's tops.
2. Spec Ops only carries what they are able. Depending on the amount of gear that is needed for their mission it could be very limited. And if they are expecting little to no resistance and then encounter heavy attacks they could easily run out before they can disengage or be reinforced.

True the M4 is a more reliable weapon than the M16 in some regards.
M16 is more acurate and reliable in battle.
M4 requires far less maintainance than the M16.

If you are looking for a weapon that can be used in all enviroments, is cheap and is easily cleaned in the field go with the AK series. No serious military is still arming their soldiers with the M4 though.

HAHAHA! ok, i've had to go and find a link, but ive got one for you:

M4/M4A1 5.56mm Carbine:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m16.htm

When people talk about the M-4 they mean a shorter barreled version of the M-16, they are in use with the US military, frontline troops, spec ops(not sure what group, may be all four main ones but i couldn't say).

or the colt one: http://www.colt.com/law/m4.asp

As you can see, this is NO WWII weapon!

BUMP, bussiness gone stale i see!

HAHAHA! ok, i've had to go and find a link, but ive got one for you:

M4/M4A1 5.56mm Carbine:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m16.htm

When people talk about the M-4 they mean a shorter barreled version of the M-16, they are in use with the US military, frontline troops, spec ops(not sure what group, may be all four main ones but i couldn't say).

or the colt one: http://www.colt.com/law/m4.asp

As you can see, this is NO WWII weapon!

The US army uses M4 to arm backline troops (similar to the M1 Granand) Someone thought its was good for Spec. Ops and delovoped a mod kit (which name ive seen to forgotten.)

The US army uses M4 to arm backline troops (similar to the M1 Granand) Someone thought its was good for Spec. Ops and delovoped a mod kit (which name ive seen to forgotten.)
It's the SOPMOD, "Special Operations Peculiar Modification"
And you're wrong about the M-4 being used to arm "backline" troops.
The M-16 is almost never issued to Infantry units anymore the M-4 is used by virtually all US Infantry from mortarmen to paratroopers, and that's as "frontline" as you can get. The M-1 Garand was also used primarily to arm "frontline" troops more than "backline" troops.

OOC: What you people are doing is getting your M-4s mixed up i think, the M-4 im talking about is a shorter barreled version of the M-16. Its also used quite a bit by Spec Ops teams in the shortest version i think, and is quite popular, although im not completely sure about that, ive not heard that its crap at least!

If you check the links i posted(http://www.colt.com/law/m4.asp and http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m16.htm) you can see that they are Modern weapons, versions of the Modern(ish) M-16.

Nope. US SOCOM had a special rifle competition over the past two years for new rifle designs. What resulted is the FN SCAR (Special Combat Assault Rifle by FN Hernstal) which has the ability to be easily rechambered for 7.62 AK magazines as well as the standard NATO 5.56 round and magazine. Thats what they'll will be using because it eliminates one of the things that hampers special ops from operating for long periods of time without resupply, ammo.

I guess you havent figured out yet the Special Forces dont use any one gun. They are the elite, and in that case they have the option to chose from a variety of different weapons depending on that persons personal preference or the tactical needs of the mission.

I realize that. But a need for a durable medium range weapon with good hitting power sill exists, i.e. an assault rifle. Generally, in today's world, Special forces can either use the assault rifle of their home country or an AK. The SCAR was made so that units could operate with 7.62 ammo from AKs and still use all the american peripherals like scopes and silencers. In case you didn't notice, AK's don't fare well with pretty much any external addons save russian grenade launchers. But RPGs are designed to replace those so you don't see many around.

Most of the time Speical Ops will use assault rifles, despite what you may think. They're designed to be good medium range firearms. The only other real options are shotguns and smgs but for close quarters only. In case you haven't figured out why most Delta Force operatives use M4s or AKs.

Well there are also 7.62 versions of the M4A1 which Special Forces do use, the main ones being the AR-47 series (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Rebel182/ar47car1.jpg) and the Stoner SR-47 series (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Rebel182/SR47.jpg).

Both have M16-rifle versions of the gun and can usually be converted back to .223 when necessary. Let me know if you want sources and/or more pics.

OOC: Interesting, and good Bumpage also!

I never knew 7.62mm M-4s etc were used by the US! 5.56mm Rounds just dont pack enough of a punch!

Yea sorry for the hijacking... in my opinion .223 backs plenty enough punch, especially with the new green-tippers coming out now which dont ricochet (the velocity is reduced) and stop inside human bodies. Im not trying to give 7.62 a bad rap, it is a good round just I dont believe the US needs to change rounds again, especially when we have 7.62 semi auto sniper support weapons (SR-25, MSG-90).

Well you can go argue to SOCOM then. Im just stating their logic behind the gun

Im not arguing. Just stating the facts.

I've shoot .22s before, their quite small, but got a long killing range depending on the gun, a long barrel means a long kill, and acurate, thats why the M-16/M-4 aren't as good as the M-14, the M-14 made a good riffle over longer ranges!

You really think 5.56 (.223) is the same as the .22 LR round you shot?

You really think 5.56 (.223) is the same as the .22 LR round you shot?

Obviously not, the .22 rounds i sshoot aren't meant for killing a man primarily, they would be longer if they were for that. The point i made was meant to say that armour vests can, at longer ranges, stop riffle rounds of smaller(namely 5.56mm) caliber.

Although at a long enough range any rounds could be stopped in theory. Anyway, i think 5.56mm is capable enough for now, but in the future it may become neccesarry to upgrade weapon caliber to cope with new armour. And also, whats the point in having a round that just stays in a humans body? The whole it makes out of the other side should be big enough...and how can it be stopped unless designed speccially for use at a certain range with no, or only a certain ammount, or armour on???

Actually dude the high velocity .223 round the military uses now is ideal for piercing various types of body armor, in my opinion.

Maximum trauma bullets are bullets which usually stay within the body and, when traveling through, churn up the inside organs. This is whats best about hollow-point pistol rounds, which form into a spinning-mushroom shaped mass of metal, and 7.62 rounds.

.223 usually, with its high velocity, continues on through the body leaving minimum trauma, and if the person being shot is still high on adrenaline they may be able to coordinate and fire a few more shots.

Actually dude the high velocity .223 round the military uses now is ideal for piercing various types of body armor, in my opinion.

Maximum trauma bullets are bullets which usually stay within the body and, when traveling through, churn up the inside organs. This is whats best about hollow-point pistol rounds, which form into a spinning-mushroom shaped mass of metal, and 7.62 rounds.

.223 usually, with its high velocity, continues on through the body leaving minimum trauma, and if the person being shot is still high on adrenaline they may be able to coordinate and fire a few more shots.

True with the second part, im still not sure how they stop within the body though...the first part true i suppose, especcialy when you remember that the US military is planning further weapons using 5.56mm rounds, if they needed larger, more powerful rounds they would probably rather have 7.62mm rounds.

Well in my opinion, 5.56 and 7.62 both have their pros and cons. I believe body armor to be more resilient against 7.62 than it is agains 5.56.

The extremely high velocity of the 5.56 (faster than the browning .50 round).. is what makes me think it would go through normal body armor. Slowing this round down, which is what the Army has done most recently, allows it to stop inside a human body without possible going through and injure the people behind that person. This reduction in velocity also protects against ricochets.

Ahh, but in theory of course it is easily possible to improve velocity by adding more propelant to the round. I would also like to point out that the .50 Browning round of of 12.7caliber, therefore not 7.62. by that i mean that just because a .50s round may be slower it is no reason to believe that 7.62mm rounds are any slower.

i also believe that the Browning .50 rounds are quite a lot older are they not? That may, or may not, mean they could be faster if reproduced using newer techiniques and designs.

Browning 12.7mm rounds shoot around the same velocity as 7.62 (about 2500-2700 fps). 5.56 shoots well over 3000fps. Im sure they could make 7.62 shoot faster, but they dont because the round would be too big and heavy, and adding grams of gunpowder to the 12.7mm rounds would also make them bigger by comparison to the older ones.

OOC: interesting, im beggining to think that i was wrong to doubt 5.56mm rounds! Although im not sure if the propelent in 7.62mm rounds will make it travel at longer ranges, seeing as they are used in sniper riffles(although they are more powerful rounds).

What the 5.56mm round doesn't have the 7.62mm round probably has just as many issues to make it just as bad. I suppose the tumbling of the round in the soldiers body would be larger meaning more damage, but then 5.56mm rounds can make a bit enough hole as it is!

Natoa Wishes to order 1,350,000 AK-108 Assault Rifles at a price of $81,000,000. Thank you.

IC:
To: Natoa
From: Lord Dragun
Subject: Order

Dear Sirs and/or Madams,

Your recent order for 1,350,000 AK-108 Assault Rifles was wrongly calculated by yourselves, the price would be 10 times that at $810,000,000.

If you are still willing to make this purchase then please state so and we shall send them immediatly.

Thankyou,
*signed*
Lord Dragun, VP exports dep.

The Confederacy of Eltaco wouldlike to purchase 100 mistral AA rockets.

Total Cost: $2 500 000

Please send telegram confirming delivery. Money is being wired to you.

The Confederacy of Eltaco wouldlike to purchase 100 mistral AA rockets.

Total Cost: $2 500 000

Please send telegram confirming delivery. Money is being wired to you.

Confirmed, a TG shall be sent, enjoy your purchase!

Bump. Working on finishing touches on new "MW-58 amphibious MBT". Should be a real beauty!

TAG

Just so i remember to come and sort this out when i bring VP back from the dead!