NationStates Jolt Archive

Speaking via the White Peoples Radio and Television Network, Hans Stahlecker of the Stahlecker Munitions Company, had the following to say,


"Over the last three decades, the Stahlecker Munitions Company has been well-ahead of the world in regards to body armor and protection of soldiers in combat, be it providing South Africans and Argentines with the armor required to kick British ass, or by providing the armor for white rebels during the 1984 Civil War... We pride ourselves on being second to none. And today, we are so very proud and honored to announce that the Mississippian Central Command has standardized the model Hans Stahlecker-Military Tactical Armor, A204, commonly known as the "Crusader Armor" as the standard for all Mississippian servicemen. This total armor system will replace the older and heavier armor, which will be given to the paramilitary units and private buyers at auctions."


"The newly standardized armor, which was in use amongst the MSAAS, consists of basically a standard appearing BDU that is made of a classified anti-ballistic material, the pants and shirt are about six times thicker than a normal BDU, but the total weight is only four pounds, this provides complete coverage for the legs, body, arms, and with the addition of gloves and inserts into the boots, the hands and feet can also be covered. Furthermore, we offer a ballistic face mask made of a classified material which will protect the entire head, face, and the neck. The classified material can stop all pistol and shotgun rounds, and rifle rounds up to and including 30'06 armor piercing and 308 armor piercing."


"Finally, a very advanced system exists, whereby small inserts made of a material much more light-weight and much more efficient than ceramic, can be inserted into the front and back of the shirt, and the sides, whereby rounds up to an including 50 caliber BMG, can be stopped, however the risk of death from blunt force trauma still exists when being shot by such a powerful round. The total weight of the armor with the inserts, is twelve pounds. The total cost is $50,000 for a complete system with inserts."

"The Mississippian government has ordered sixty million armor systems, which will be produced and delivered over the next three years. The total cost for this will be nearly 2,500,000,000,000 Mississippian Dollars." (ooc- the MS dollar is worth more than the US dollar)


Ooc- I am basing this on a highly advanced version of the modern RL "Spectra" armor which just recently came out, much stronger and lighter than Kevlar. So this isn't an idea I just pulled out of my butt, it's something that we may quite likely see in RL within the next decade, armor that does what the old 20-30 pound SWAT Tact vests did, but does it better and is much lighter, ultimately leading to a day when armor is so light you can be nearly totally armored up and it's just like wearing normal clothing, just heavier, that would be the armor fans dream.

(OOC: Ooh, could I buy some?)

"Exportation of this armor system, or attempted exportation, will be punished with summary hanging. This is for Mississippian forces only."


Czarina Alice Fabus

"Exportation of this armor system, or attempted exportation, will be punished with summary hanging. This is for Mississippian forces only."


Czarina Alice Fabus

(OOC: Oh, okay. :()

The classified material can stop all pistol and shotgun rounds, and rifle rounds up to and including 30'06 armor piercing and 308 armor piercing."


Does that include the 4 pound BDU as well.........

Does that include the 4 pound BDU as well.........



"The BDU by itself without inserts, yes, it can stop the 30'06 and 308 rounds, and it weighs 4 pounds, the total system weighs 12, that is 12, including the 4 pounds for the BDU itself, that means the total weigh is 12, period. I hope that helps explain things."


Hans Stahlecker

ooc: Not that I care really too much, but what is this amazing material which can stop a .308 Armor Piercing round and yet weigh only four pounds???
The information will be required, oocly of course, ..to avoid a massive ignore on this armor.
edit:
also, if your going to claim its spectra, you should be aware that the inserts used in modern day real life armor (hard ceramic plates which are lined with spectra) can only just barely stop a russian 7.62mm round and they EACH weigh 4 pounds, and its rigid, not fabric-like

ooc: Not that I care really too much, but what is this amazing material which can stop a .308 Armor Piercing round and yet weigh only four pounds???
The information will be required, oocly of course, ..to avoid a massive ignore on this armor.

OOC: Exactly what I was going to say. The TSICS Mk. II that I use for my Special Forces is capable of doing just that, but it's ridiculously expensive because the material is composed of SWINT-composite fibres interwoven with spider silk and other materials. It's about 25-times as tough as Kevlar, but the exacting purity and time-consuming construction means each piece of armor takes a terribly long time and is not particularly cost-effective.

ooc: Not that I care really too much, but what is this amazing material which can stop a .308 Armor Piercing round and yet weigh only four pounds???
The information will be required, oocly of course, ..to avoid a massive ignore on this armor.
edit:
also, if your going to claim its spectra, you should be aware that the inserts used in modern day real life armor (hard ceramic plates which are lined with spectra) can only just barely stop a russian 7.62mm round and they EACH weigh 4 pounds, and its rigid, not fabric-like


Ooc-

I think I already explained this, it's based on a system called the Spectra material, and this is just a more advanced version. Just because I'm modern tech, doesn't mean I can't have slightly more advanced designs, AMF is modern tech, but nobody goes after him yelling about his sentinels, which are so far out of RL modern tech, it's not funny. I think I am entitled to have an advanced armor system that we've been talking about for a long time, pouring funds into, and using small numbers as prototypes to test it out, we've been using early model designs for a long time, slowly decreasing the weight, I think this is quite realistic, and by 2010, this may very well be a possibility.

And by the way, for 500 dollars, I could buy a 4 pound plate that stops 12 rapid succession (but spaced, not on top of each other) 7.62x39mm. There is no such thing as "Russian 7.62mm" there is 7.62mm NATO (308) and 7.62x39mm (Soviet caliber).


I have my own body armor, and I've realized something, over the years, armor keeps getting better and less in weight, and this trend will continue. How much experience do you have with body armor? I have my own armor... I don't think you do, do you?

Instead of having a 4 pound plate of a material stronger and lighter than steel, why not 4 pounds of a fabric that is lighter and stronger than the hardened stuff that is stronger and lighter than steel and does more per weight ratio? Is that really so unrealistic?

Ooc-

I think I already explained this, it's based on a system called the Spectra material, and this is just a more advanced version. Just because I'm modern tech, doesn't mean I can't have slightly more advanced designs, AMF is modern tech, but nobody goes after him yelling about his sentinels, which are so far out of RL modern tech, it's not funny. I think I am entitled to have an advanced armor system that we've been talking about for a long time, pouring funds into, and using small numbers as prototypes to test it out, we've been using early model designs for a long time, slowly decreasing the weight, I think this is quite realistic, and by 2010, this may very well be a possibility.

And by the way, for 500 dollars, I could buy a 4 pound plate that stops 12 rapid succession (but spaced, not on top of each other) 7.62x39mm. There is no such thing as "Russian 7.62mm" there is 7.62mm NATO (308) and 7.62x39mm (Soviet caliber).


I have my own body armor, and I've realized something, over the years, armor keeps getting better and less in weight, and this trend will continue. How much experience do you have with body armor? I have my own armor... I don't think you do, do you? There is no soviet union, anyone who knows shit knows the terms "Russian 7.62mm, "AK-47 round", "Soviet 7.62mm" means 7.62X39mm and I dont need to inculde the exact name and dimesions of a commonly known round in a nation-simulation game forum.

I dont currently own my own body armor(i dont have that many enemies in real life ;) ) but I wore and took care of both flak jackets and interceptor body armor while I was an infantryman in the United States Army.

Also, I do not believe that the armor which you describe will be possible in 5 years as you state, at least not as light as you describe, perhaps in 15-20 years it will be feasable.

as a final note.. my military utilizes .45 caliber assault rifles (~11mm) so I wont be paying much mind to your armor ;)

edit:
Instead of having a 4 pound plate of a material stronger and lighter than steel, why not 4 pounds of a fabric that is lighter and stronger than the hardened stuff that is stronger and lighter than steel and does more per weight ratio? Is that really so unrealistic?
can you rephrase that?

Or do it the way the Russians did it in WWII...the guy in front of you is your armor, and enough people survive to accomplish the mission...although it is questionable as to casualties...

Or do it the way the Russians did it in WWII...the guy in front of you is your armor, and enough people survive to accomplish the mission...although it is questionable as to casualties...
OOC: That is not true and is a lie told about Russian tactics. This rarely happened. It was not a tactic implemented by the Soviet Union, despite what you may have been told.

There is no soviet union, anyone who knows shit knows the terms "Russian 7.62mm, "AK-47 round", "Soviet 7.62mm" means 7.62X39mm and I dont need to inculde the exact name and dimesions of a commonly known round in a nation-simulation game forum.

I dont currently own my own body armor(i dont have that many enemies in real life ;) ) but I wore and took care of both flak jackets and interceptor body armor while I was an infantryman in the United States Army.

Also, I do not believe that the armor which you describe will be possible in 5 years as you state, at least not as light as you describe, perhaps in 15-20 years it will be feasable.

as a final note.. my military utilizes .45 caliber assault rifles (~11mm) so I wont be paying much mind to your armor ;)

edit:

can you rephrase that?


A rifle that fires 45 caliber pistol round? So what, that still is easily stopped by modern RL armor? Or do you mean a 45 caliber rifle round (in which case, the recoil will be such that your troops can fire about 10 rounds before their shoulders fall apart, and not to mention the magazine size is probably only about 15 rounds at the most, basically you want me to believe your soldiers have a fully automatic version of the Barrett 50 caliber rifle (30 pound weapon) but it's 45 caliber instead of 50, and it's actually your standard issue rifle... Wow, and you call me unrealistic?

A rifle that fires 45 caliber pistol round? So what, that still is easily stopped by modern RL armor? Or do you mean a 45 caliber rifle round (in which case, the recoil will be such that your troops can fire about 10 rounds before their shoulders fall apart, and not to mention the magazine size is probably only about 15 rounds at the most, basically you want me to believe your soldiers have a fully automatic version of the Barrett 50 caliber rifle (30 pound weapon) but it's 45 caliber instead of 50, and it's actually your standard issue rifle... Wow, and you call me unrealistic?
Notice I said .45 caliber assault rifles so therefore it is OBVIOUSLY a rifle round.
(~11x75mm) It has a number of anti-recoil features including spring systems. It does have a low rate of fire, but with burst fire it is quite effective. It is more accurately described as a battle rifle, a weapon which is useless to poorly trained armies but deadly in the hands of a trained rifleman , and yes I call you unrealistic, or godmodder, whichever you prefer. :cool:

That's enough of this conversation and I am through. :)
Use your armor all you want in post-modern world, where I'll glady face it with one of my alter-egos(and thier supeiror armor), but in the modern world, its crap.
Your going to attack my assault rifle rather than defend your armor... well that's fine by me, but I am not going to listen to such garbage, especially from the likes of you

Notice I said .45 caliber assault rifles so therefore it is OBVIOUSLY a rifle round.
(~11x75mm) It has a number of anti-recoil features including spring systems. It does have a low rate of fire, but with burst fire it is quite effective. It is more accurately described as a battle rifle, a weapon which is useless to poorly trained armies but deadly in the hands of a trained rifleman , and yes I call you unrealistic, or godmodder, whichever you prefer. :cool:

That's enough of this conversation and I am through. :)
Use your armor all you want in post-modern world, where I'll glady face it with one of my alter-egos(and thier supeiror armor), but in the modern world, its crap.
Your going to attack my assault rifle rather than defend your armor... well that's fine by me, but I am not going to listen to such garbage, especially from the likes of you



They make 9mm assault rifles, which fire the 9mm pistol round. Indeed Colt makes a 9mm rifle (it is a rifle, chambered to fire a 9mm pistol round) so OBVIOUSLY you don't know what you're talking about, if you think I was mistaken.

Two examples of rifles chambered to fire pistol rounds.

It's still a pistol round, just fired via a rifle.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/ruger_pc_carbine.html

http://www.impactguns.com/store/082442810959.html

YOU MEAN THE "COLT SMG" ????
http://colt.com/law/smg.asp

YOU GIVE ME EXAMPLES OF CARBINES HAHA

OBVIOUSLY YOU don't know what YOU'RE talking about!


EDIT:, a sub machine gun firing a 9x19mm with a 30 inch barrel is still a fricken smg, not a rifle, you dont know what you are talking about and I am very glad that you have chosen to ignore me FINNALY.
AND PLEASE DO tell me where is "flame bait/cursing" you speak of
crap is hardly a swear word, and there are no swear filters on this board and you can use any foul language you want. So spare me the innane replies and call all the mods you want I didn't flame you I simply attacked your infeasable design which you basically asked the community to do by posting what you posted on your first post.
I am putting you back on forum ignore, an ignore you unknowingly bypassed when you started being DA instead of CM

The Colt 9mm also comes in a 16 inch barrel version, which is thus considered a rifle, but just barely so.... Anyway, please remove yourself from my threads, your swear words on earlier posts and your borderline flame baiting, are already more than enough for me to mod-call your butt... In other words, you're on my ignore list from this point forward, and thus you are invited to leave all my threads and never post in them...

OOC: Nice Idea....I looked at the Spectra armor, and I must say that if this system is based upon it, it sounds like a good thing.

All pistol rounds and shotgun rounds? Bullshit. Have you honestly tested EVERY SINGLE GUN IN THE GAME. No you havent. Dont say you have. Bullshit liar. Some pistols could go through that armor a few shotguns but a ton of rifles.

OOC: How does this armor compare to a German steel helmet which is a NATO test medium. I'm just curious, because my military uses a rifle that can penetrate one at up to 600 meters.

......this halarious to wacth, a pistol round is a pistol round PERIOD, even if its fired from a rifle, it's as if a pistol fired it. only because of the longer barrel its a bit more accurate but its volicity isnt gonna change, neither is its penetrating power.

OOC: how much is this god-sent armor

"Exportation of this armor system, or attempted exportation, will be punished with summary hanging. This is for Mississippian forces only."


Czarina Alice Fabus

Perhaps you sell an export version? I always want my Immortals equipped with the best of the best. If not, forget I asked.

-Shah Khosru III

OoC: Your mysterious material wouldn't happen to be spider-silk, would it? It would be the only thing I know of capable of meeting those stats, and it is pretty strong (proportionally stronger than steel). If so, how do you harvest the silk? Genetic modifacation of the spiders so that they constantly produce it? Or take a note from already accomplished genetic feats and introduce the spider gene into a goat (or other mammel)? I am curious.

OoC: Your mysterious material wouldn't happen to be spider-silk, would it? It would be the only thing I know of capable of meeting those stats, and it is pretty strong (proportionally stronger than steel). If so, how do you harvest the silk? Genetic modifacation of the spiders so that they constantly produce it? Or take a note from already accomplished genetic feats and introduce the spider gene into a goat (or other mammel)? I am curious.




Ooc- We won't say exactly, and yes it could very well be spider silk, I was waiting for somebody to ask. It is based on Spectra and spider silk but we refuse to admit publicly it is based on anything so radical as spider silk. :)



Ic-

"To see what the armor is based on, I'd direct you to Stahlecker Munitions Company executives. Other than that, I'd have to say, no comment."

Czarina Alice Fabus

ooc: you might want to read this
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=367578

ooc: you might want to read this
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=367578



You might want to read this:



http://www.spectrafiber.com/armor/fr_armor.html

http://www.defense-update.com/products/s/spectra.htm

http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2004/5/body_armor/index.phtml

Pound for pound, Spectra is 10 times stronger than steel.





Just because I read more about armor and weapons, and know more than what most "Avg" folks seem to know, doesn't mean I'm a godmodder.

OOC: You showed me a 16 pound bullet proof vest and a material only used in combination with rigid ceramic plates, Nothing even suggesting a 4 pound complete BDU with the same level of protection is possible.

Ignored.

OOC: You showed me a 16 pound bullet proof vest and a material only used in combination with rigid ceramic plates, Nothing even suggesting a 4 pound complete BDU with the same level of protection is possible.

Ignored.



Ooc- Which is why I said, "Based on Spectra" not "Taken word for word from existing armor."

You might want to read this:



http://www.spectrafiber.com/armor/fr_armor.html
This link goes to a 404 error.

http://www.defense-update.com/products/s/spectra.htm
This link goes to a single paragraph page that doesnt mention weight at all, other than a "10x stroner than steel" reference, which is a useless comparison as no one gives their troops body armour made of steel.

http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2004/5/body_armor/index.phtml
This link also goes to a 404 error.

Just because I read more about armor and weapons, and know more than what most "Avg" folks seem to know, doesn't mean I'm a godmodder.
You claim to have read all of this, yet all you have presented is two dud links and a paragraph containing a useless comparison to steel. Although I admit I dont like these armour suit things (which everyone seems to be building these days taking the US Army looking into it as being able to build one a few times better right now), if you tried to use this against me, I would ignore you as you haven't presented any evidence that it works. Then again, Im not sure if it matters as you added me to your seemingly boundless ignore list last night because someone kept adding you to an MSN convo I was in.

(PS: No idea why my previous post is deat :/)

OOC: Or just use battle rifles designed with the armored infantry in mind.

OOC: Or just use battle rifles designed with the armored infantry in mind.
OOC: Indeed. Ceramic inserts will break after a couple of tungsten rounds, and kevlar (or kevlar like material) may stop the bullet but it wont stop the bullet breaking bones / making the soldier feel pain

OOC: Indeed. Ceramic inserts will break after a couple of tungsten rounds, and kevlar (or kevlar like material) may stop the bullet but it wont stop the bullet breaking bones / making the soldier feel pain


Ooc- I know of RL spectra inserts which will stop 18-24 rounds of AK-47 ammunition in rapid succession.

Ooc- I know of RL spectra inserts which will stop 18-24 rounds of AK-47 ammunition in rapid succession.
Provide a link and relative cost, please.

OOC: If the armour could even stop 18-24 rounds of 7.62mm ammunition you could still very well possibly black out or break a bone.

Provide a link and relative cost, please.


I've already provided enough links, I don't remember every little thing I've read over the years, as in the exact site. I remember reading it, it costs about 800 dollars per plate. Hell, I own a body armor suit and a plate, I think I ought to know what they do.

Either take my word, do what I did and search for yourself, or don't believe me and don't RP with me. I have neither the time or the inclinations to search for it again. I'm not meaning to offend you or sound strident, I just have things to do. If I come across the links again, I'll post them ASAP.

I've already provided enough links, I don't remember every little thing I've read over the years, as in the exact site. I remember reading it, it costs about 800 dollars per plate. Hell, I own a body armor suit and a plate, I think I ought to know what they do.
You own a suit of body armour, therefore you know how all types, even experimental ones that SWAT doesnt have, work and also how much they cost? I own a computer, that doesnt mean I could make a processor if you gave me a slab of silicone and a knife.

Either take my word, do what I did and search for yourself, or don't believe me and don't RP with me. I have neither the time or the inclinations to search for it again. I'm not meaning to offend you or sound strident, I just have things to do. If I come across the links again, I'll post them ASAP.
Thanks for that, 'twill be apreciated if you find them. I do not, however, accept things that I dont think look right if you dont have a link to substantiate it.

Our job is not to prove you wrong, but it is your job to back up your claims wiht evidence (and working links).

Our job is not to prove you wrong, but it is your job to back up your claims wiht evidence (and working links).


There are links on page 2 already.

And only one works.

According to the single functional link, Spectra appears to be only a 40% improvment on armind fiber, which is the main fiber used in kevlar armor... and kevlar can not come near to providing the performence you're claiming, not even when resin bonded into a stiff shell. While Spectra does have the potential to provide (in tandem with ceramic inserts) reasonable protection against even standard rifle rounds, there is no evidence supporting your remarkable weight claims

I also find it ironic that a few weeks ago you posted rifle ammunition that could not only blow through any existing body armor, but also transfer enough momentum to it to knock the vest 60 feet backwards, and now you've developed body armor that stops all armor-peircing rifle rounds... Interesting.

DA, you do realise you're claiming that you've made a suit of resin-bound kevlar all over your entire body except the head, hands and feet, weighing the same as a standard kevlar helmet? Unless you've made it out of carbon nanotubes or something (in which case you're looking at 1,000,000s per suit) this simply isnt possible.

DA, you do realise you're claiming that you've made a suit of resin-bound kevlar all over your entire body except the head, hands and feet, weighing the same as a standard kevlar helmet? Unless you've made it out of carbon nanotubes or something (in which case you're looking at 1,000,000s per suit) this simply isnt possible.


Spectra weighs about 1/4 of what Kevlar armor weighs, at it's about 4-5 times stronger. I'm making something based on Spectra, but an improvement.