NationStates Jolt Archive

***This is a closed RP***

"It saddens me today to report, due to unreasonable demands and threats forced upon us, that we have declared pre-emptive war with Italy." - Prime Minister Winston Churchill.

Malta

The flight from Egypt had assembled along Malta's principal airfield. 100 Wellington Bombers, 40 Wellesleys, and an escort of 30 Blenheim (heavy fighter version) aircraft prepared for their sortie, which would attack in several waves due to the large size of the attack. 20 Hurricanes will go over Sicily then return to avoid running out of fuel. Their target- The docks and airfield at Taranto, and their mission to incapacitate much of the Italian battle fleet and local air defences.

Time on Target estimated at 5:30PM

Somewhere off the Ionian Islands

The Carriers Argus and Eagle, with their total compliment of 40 Swordfish torpedo bombers and escort of the heavy cruiser Norfolk, plus light cruisers Calypso and Carlisle, and 5 destroyers.

The Swordfish torpedo bombers prepare for their night raid, to finish off the surviving remnants of the naval forces in Taranto.

Over Sicily

The bomber flight flew over the Sicilian countryside...And the Hurricane pilots were vigilant, ready for whatever the Italians might throw at them.


OOC: This is somewhat based on a raid in November 1940, which historically knocked out a lot of Italian warships- but i'm sending strategic bombers as well. The real attack was only a night raid of Swordfish fighters.

"It is with no regrets that I now inform you, that in accordance with our allies here and aboard, the Soverign Nation of France is now at war with Italy. We shall assist our British allies in however we are able." -Prime Minister Reynaud.

OOC: That'll have to do for now. I have to wait till I can get home tonight and find some numbers for French forces In Africa and such.

OOC: Dum Dee Dum Bump.

*** telegram to the government of Italia***

We regret to say that we are in war with eachother. We believe you threaten the commonwealth position in Africa. We will use our full force to destroy your fascist empire and secure the commonwealth position in Africa.

"It is now my duty to report to you that Italy and her colonies are now at war with Britain and France. Diplomatic communications with others have been lost and the situation looks grim. I now warn you to beware of possible attacks and bomber raids, but to have faith in our military." - Il Duce Mussolini

The Italian military in mainland Italy has reacted quickly. A defensive line across the Italy-France border has been commisioned. The line will consist of trench systems, bunkers, gun emplacements and garrisons. It is hoped to be constructed in four months.

In Sicily, anti-air defences are operational and fully alert. Skylights patrol the night, on the watch for hostile aircraft. Italian aircraft scout the sky, waiting to hound out enemy planes.

In the African colonies, the army positioned on the Somaliland border waits. A new detatchment is being formed and air raids on British and French colonies have begun.

OOC: What happened to my attack on Gibraltar?

I posted it on the IC thread:

After careful consideration, Il Duce Mussolini decided that the most strategic move would be this: Firstly, the navy: A large naval group will move to the British occupied Straights of Gibraltar. The force shall consist of:

3 Aosta- class light cruisers
1 Trento- class heavy cruiser
1 Zara- class heavy cruiser
2 Italian smg Submarines

However, before the main detatchment attacks, 2 "Maiale"- class Human Torpedos will attack the British Docks.

The newly formed Boer Republic of South Africa has no wish to ake part in this war and is refusing to open hostilities against her Italian friends.

---Telegram to British Prime Minister, from Stalin---

We are prepared to open the second front on the northern part of Italy if you after the succesfull take over of Italy give us half of that nation, we will also attack Italies allies if you agree to give in our possesion few colonies in Africa.
We await for your reply, our men are ready to mobilize

OOC: NOBODY ELSE BUT BRITAIN CAN RESPOND TO THIS!! YOU DON'T KNOW THAT I SENT THIS TELEGRAM.

The newly formed Boer Republic of South Africa has no wish to ake part in this war and is refusing to open hostilities against her Italian friends.

OOC: Why the hell are you on the allied side if you are allies with the axis?

Have you actually followed the IC Pushka? No offence, but South Africa quit the Allies ages ago, and is now on the verge of joining the Axis!

OOC: How can you get to Italy? Russia had a terrible army until about 1942, all their troops were green and their generals and commanders had been shot! You wouldn't be able to get to Italy quick enough to do anything with them, because Germany would bog you down, so would the countries in the way, and, by the time and if you get to Italy, we would have known and prepared defences.

Have you actually followed the IC Pushka? No offence, but South Africa quit the Allies ages ago, and is now on the verge of joining the Axis!

OOC: How can you get to Italy? Russia had a terrible army until about 1942, all their troops were green and their generals and commanders had been shot! You wouldn't be able to get to Italy quick enough to do anything with them, because Germany would bog you down, so would the countries in the way, and, by the time and if you get to Italy, we would have known and prepared defences.

OOC:Our troops being bad during that period is just a fairy tale a lot of Russian historians and Russians try to believe (including myself) in order to explain the failure of Russian army in first year of war, but thats just not true. I watched many documentaries on this, plus i read a couple of books. Russian force at that point was emmense, much bigger then German force, Germans didn't even have real tanks, only armored vehicles with machine guns. The reasons Russians had to retreat at first was because our Generals didn't see it coming, they simply didn't. Once Germans hit our troops (Our ally, germany hit our troops) there was a major confusion in Kremlin and non of the divisions were receiving orders to do anything, as a result 7 million men died in first two weeks. But now its different, Germans don't have the element of surprise. I have better commanding officers(me) and i got all that horde of soldiers and equipment. Russian army that was wiped out because of not receiving orders was a proffesional army, those were the guys who fought in revolution of 1917 and weren't put into gulags according to law #58.

OOC; I really don't see how Russian troops can attack the Italian border. They'd have to go through at least two neutral countries (Rumania and Yugolslavia), both of which were technically pro-axis. This would be an advance of approx 1500 miles across non-aggressive nations to reach the enemy of a friend. Be realistic, no general or leader in their right mind would try to do this.

OOC:Hitler attacked Russia and broke the non-agression pact. Was he in his right mind?

This time around Russia gonna be the one breaking the pact and attacking Germany and its allies. This time you'll be taken by surprise.

Before you decide to attack, Pushka. You may want to take a look at what happened to the Russians in WWI.

Russians attack (Roughly same numbers) East Prussia with the thought of winning, but get stomped by the smaller German army at Tallenburg.

Germans attack Russian held Poland and are barley held back, but Poland falls the next year to German forces.

Russians attack several times and fail to thwart the Germans. By 1917, Germans launch another offensive, capturing the Baltic-States and forcing the Russians to surrender.

Another great example would be the Russo-Japaneese war. As you may know the much bigger and more powerful Russian navy was sunk to the bottom of the ocean by a much smaller Japaneese force.

Although the fighting will be different, the Russians will still be facing an army that is alot better equipped, alot better coordinated and contians some of the greatest generals of all time (Rommel would be one great example). Plus, only the Germans are the only ones at this time that have ability to use the Blitzkrieg tactic (although its orgin is British).

So think about that, before attacking.

OOC; Yes Hitler was in his right mind. He had all the elements for military success that he needed. He had the necessary numbers of very experienced troops, and he had an excellent motive - food from the Ukraine and oil from the Caucasus, not to mention the ideaological motive. More importantly, perhaps the most important factor in all military operations, he had the element of SURPRISE. Stalin refused to believe that any German attack was iminent, even though he had been informed by his spies in the Lucy ring. He was concentrating his efforts in Siberia where he expected the Japanese to attack. In May 1940 RL, the Red army was in syuch a state that Russian divisions were being commanded by regimental and Battalion commanders. Of the twelve Marshalls of the Soviet Union only one, Timoshenko, was still alive. If you honestly believe that in the space of a few weeks (or even months) you can reverse the Red Army's abysmal command structure and morale, and transfer thousands of troops across thousands of miles of Siberia with little or no infrastructure, then you are very much mistaken.

OOC; Yes Hitler was in his right mind. He had all the elements for military success that he needed. He had the necessary numbers of very experienced troops, and he had an excellent motive - food from the Ukraine and oil from the Caucasus, not to mention the ideaological motive. More importantly, perhaps the most important factor in all military operations, he had the element of SURPRISE. Stalin refused to believe that any German attack was iminent, even though he had been informed by his spies in the Lucy ring. He was concentrating his efforts in Siberia where he expected the Japanese to attack. In May 1940 RL, the Red army was in syuch a state that Russian divisions were being commanded by regimental and Battalion commanders. Of the twelve Marshalls of the Soviet Union only one, Timoshenko, was still alive. If you honestly believe that in the space of a few weeks (or even months) you can reverse the Red Army's abysmal command structure and morale, and transfer thousands of troops across thousands of miles of Siberia with little or no infrastructure, then you are very much mistaken.


Ever heard of Trans-Siberian railroad? Yeah thats what i am gonna use to transfer my troops to the eastern front. German soldiers weren't better experienced, they were better trained. Plus i have an obvious advantage in numbers and superior technology (T-34 started being mass produced in 1940, while panthers and tigers were only prototypes.)

Ever heard of Trans-Siberian railroad? Yeah thats what i am gonna use to transfer my troops to the eastern front. German soldiers weren't better experienced, they were better trained. Plus i have an obvious advantage in numbers and superior technology (T-34 started being mass produced in 1940, while panthers and tigers were only prototypes.)

OOC: Yeah, and once you do that, I'm going to send a message to Japan along the lines of "Siberia weak, forces moving East. Attack now for certain victory." And what happened to your precious T-34s when they attacked Germans? They got hit in the side be mere Pz IIIs and would be knocked out.

Ever heard of Trans-Siberian railroad? Yeah thats what i am gonna use to transfer my troops to the eastern front. German soldiers weren't better experienced, they were better trained. Plus i have an obvious advantage in numbers and superior technology (T-34 started being mass produced in 1940, while panthers and tigers were only prototypes.)

But the Germans had superior tactics and generals.

Furthermore, the Germans even had superior weapons to the Russians. After all, the Soviet Union was still using the Maxim Machine-Gun and the Mosin Nagat Rifle, both of which were obsolete.

And since the Trans-Siberian Railroad was rather poorly built. Several Japaneese bombers could destroy it, leaving your forces in Siberia trapped.

OOC: Yeah, and once you do that, I'm going to send a message to Japan along the lines of "Siberia weak, forces moving East. Attack now for certain victory." And what happened to your precious T-34s when they attacked Germans? They got hit in the side be mere Pz IIIs and would be knocked out.

No not really. Back in 1940 there weren't that many T-34s and thy weren't used yet. BUt i can just issue an order of producing more of them.

But the Germans had superior tactics and generals.

Furthermore, the Germans even had superior weapons to the Russians. After all, the Soviet Union was still using the Maxim Machine-Gun and the Mosin Nagat Rifle, both of which were obsolete.

And since the Trans-Siberian Railroad was rather poorly built. Several Japaneese bombers could destroy it, leaving your forces in Siberia trapped.

Thats easier. We kill the Germans with our "obsolete" weaponry (I don't know what you talking about Masin Nagan was a perfectly good weapon, thats the one Russian soldiers used the most and they defeated more then 75% of German forces. Its not getting any better. Also PPSH was already used by officers at this point.) and then arm ourselves with their stuff. Trans-Siberian Railroad is actually build quiet well, it was upgraded by the soviets in the 20s. As for Japanese bombers. In this temperature? Are you kidding me? In syberia it gets as cold as -40C each year right now, how much colder do you think it got during the time then eastern part of the country was experiencing unusual -30C colds?

Anyways, no need to talk me out of this everybody. If i fail then its gonna be my failure. Germany you for one should happy that i am making a mistake.

Also it took Tigers more then 2 hits usually to knock out T-34s. Just to let you know.

Thats easier. We kill the Germans with our "obsolete" weaponry and then arm ourselves with their stuff. Trans-Siberian Railroad is actually build quiet well, it was upgraded by the soviets in the 20s. As for Japanese bombers. In this temperature? Are you kidding me? In syberia it gets as cold as -40C each year right now, how much colder do you think it got during the time then eastern part of the country was experiencing unusual -30C colds?

Anyways, no need to talk me out of this everybody. If i fail then its gonna be my failure. Germany you for one should happy that i am making a mistake.

Also it took Tigers more then 2 hits usually to knock out T-34s. Just to let you know.


But this is May 1940, which means it should be warm enough to allow aircraft to fly across siberia.

Plus, its kind of hard to arm yourself with german weapons, when you dont have enough of the right type of ammunition needed to fire them.

the 12 tribes will consider any breach of our waters or airspace an act of war
the 12 tribes,will endeavour to remain neutral,and will not allow, it self to get involved in a war,but will not stand by and see slaughter of civillians,i would like to see reports from allied forces on my desk on what steps to take and what we can do to help in any humanitarian degree

Exactly. And what will you do when you run out of ammo? ofcourse, silly me - you'll charge with swords!

But this is May 1940, which means it should be warm enough to allow aircraft to fly across siberia.

Plus, its kind of hard to arm yourself with german weapons, when you dont have enough of the right type of ammunition needed to fire them.

This is may? WTF? Ah whatever. Anyways, I edited my last post read it again.

You see thats how war was fought on the eastern front then Russians ran out of ammo a lot of the time they took guns from dead germans and used them. After you run across the field with a machine gun shooting at you and take a trench you usually only had 200 men alive in your batalion out of a thousand. And here you have 800 dead German soldiers some didn't even have a chance to
fire their Shmauzers. Thats more then enough ammo for 200 men.

the 12 tribes will consider any breach of our waters or airspace an act of war
the 12 tribes,will endeavour to remain neutral,and will not allow, it self to get involved in a war,but will not stand by and see slaughter of civillians,i would like to see reports from allied forces on my desk on what steps to take and what we can do to help in any humanitarian degree

This is a WW2 role play, you have to go to the sign up thread and sign up as one of the nations who fought in WW2. I am USSR by the way.

OOC: I'm going to have to side with Pushka in this. Lachenburg, The Russian army was indeed well equipped, and not the same army that fought the Axis in WW1. You really can't compare the two. The Red Army *creamed* the Japanese in assorted battles in Siberia in the late 30's, the chief reason the Japanese never joined in Germany's fight with them.

Some other points- The Maxim Machine gun may have been old, but the British still used the .303 Vickers machine gun from World War One, and it certainly did a good job. The USA still use today the Colt 1911 handgun in their law-enforcement. Small arms technology progresses slowly.

The T-34 was constantly upgraded. The later models are much better and have a bigger gun than the original batches.

In WW2, Russia did move several shock divisions to western Russia along the trans-siberian railroad. I think they are armoured divisions, but I can't give specifics unfortunately.

The leadership situation isn't so good, but several leaders such as Konev, Timoshenko and Zhukov are in my opinion capable enough to keep such an operation together. Not to mention, the terrain that they are invading at first is mostly flat and easy, giving them a greater speed advantage.

It would be an interesting scenario at least. IC post coming tomorrow.

Exactly. And what will you do when you run out of ammo? ofcourse, silly me - you'll charge with swords!

Myth. The few times the Russians did use cossack melee charges they had devastating effect, as they were employed against completely demoralised opponents.

OOC: I'm going to have to side with Pushka in this. Lachenburg, The Russian army was indeed well equipped, and not the same army that fought the Axis in WW1. You really can't compare the two. The Red Army *creamed* the Japanese in assorted battles in Siberia in the late 30's, the chief reason the Japanese never joined in Germany's fight with them.

Some other points- The Maxim Machine gun may have been old, but the British still used the .303 Vickers machine gun from World War One, and it certainly did a good job. The USA still use today the Colt 1911 handgun in their law-enforcement. Small arms technology progresses slowly.

The T-34 was constantly upgraded. The later models are much better and have a bigger gun than the original batches.

In WW2, Russia did move several shock divisions to western Russia along the trans-siberian railroad. I think they are armoured divisions, but I can't give specifics unfortunately.

The leadership situation isn't so good, but several leaders such as Konev, Timoshenko and Zhukov are in my opinion capable enough to keep such an operation together. Not to mention, the terrain that they are invading at first is mostly flat and easy, giving them a greater speed advantage.

It would be an interesting scenario at least. IC post coming tomorrow.


OOC: Did you get my TG?

OOC: Did you get my TG?

Yep. I'll reply tomorrow :)

Yep. I'll reply tomorrow :)

You know just wandering and shit. Okay. Good.

To:Stalin, Moscow
From:Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia Partisans

Stalin,
We request to know whether you have an idea how and when you will start your march to Italy. We request infomation such as what countrys will we be marching through, estimated time of march, estimated amount of supplies, plan of attack, etc. We need this information as soon as you can come up with them, so we can get an idea of how much supplies, how many troops and artillery, etc. to send. Thank you.

Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia

OOC: Okay.... Russia seems to believe that he can GET to Italy. Lets just go along with that scenario. He reaches Italy. However, because of Stalin's regime, all his good generals have been shot. I accept, the Italian generals were also crap, but this evens it out a bit. Then, we see that his troops are all green. Italy's soldiers may have been ill-equipped, but they were not rookies like the IC Red Army at the moment. The Reds were also not used to the types of terrain they would encounter. Then, to cream it all off, Germany could attack the weakened Russian front AND come around and sandwich the Russian advance. Perhaps a rethink is in order? Finally, none of this would ever happen. It is ridiculous.

Kanabia and New-Scottland, perhaps we may now continue with the actual, current, IC war described in the title rather than debate on whether Pushka can reach me?

OOC: Yes. I promise I will get around to an IC post tomorrow. :)

OOC: Okay.... Russia seems to believe that he can GET to Italy. Lets just go along with that scenario. He reaches Italy. However, because of Stalin's regime, all his good generals have been shot. I accept, the Italian generals were also crap, but this evens it out a bit. Then, we see that his troops are all green. Italy's soldiers may have been ill-equipped, but they were not rookies like the IC Red Army at the moment. The Reds were also not used to the types of terrain they would encounter. Then, to cream it all off, Germany could attack the weakened Russian front AND come around and sandwich the Russian advance. Perhaps a rethink is in order? Finally, none of this would ever happen. It is ridiculous.

Kanabia and New-Scottland, perhaps we may now continue with the actual, current, IC war described in the title rather than debate on whether Pushka can reach me?

OOC: True, continue with the IC posts. The Italian troops had poor commanders but fought with much bravery. Over 600,000 died holding the line in the defense of Italy in the Alps against Austria in WWI. Don't underestimate Italian troops.

IC:
To: Il Duce Benito Mussolini
From: Fuhrer of the Third Reich, Adolf Hitler

Realizing that Britain has declared war upon your country and people, I wish to place two(2) Wermacht divisions in Italy to help in the defense of any attack. I will await your reply.

OOC: Okay.... Russia seems to believe that he can GET to Italy. Lets just go along with that scenario. He reaches Italy. However, because of Stalin's regime, all his good generals have been shot. I accept, the Italian generals were also crap, but this evens it out a bit. Then, we see that his troops are all green. Italy's soldiers may have been ill-equipped, but they were not rookies like the IC Red Army at the moment. The Reds were also not used to the types of terrain they would encounter. Then, to cream it all off, Germany could attack the weakened Russian front AND come around and sandwich the Russian advance. Perhaps a rethink is in order? Finally, none of this would ever happen. It is ridiculous.

Kanabia and New-Scottland, perhaps we may now continue with the actual, current, IC war described in the title rather than debate on whether Pushka can reach me?

OOC: Red Army isn't as green as you like to think. A lot of people in it fought in Revolution of 1917. Plus life in Russia was tougher then in Italy, people are tougher. I can have 20 million of my soldiers all equipped and pretty up your ass. As for Germany, who said i am gonna go into this war alone i am sure some of my allies will keep Germany occupied until i take Italy and then attack Germany.

WHERE THE HELL ARE MY ALLIES!? I WANT THE REPONSES TO TGs I SENT YOU

IC:

To: Latvia and its allies.
From: Stalin

Do not worry, it will be soon. Make sure your men are ready, we got a bloody war ahead.

OOC: Red Army isn't as green as you like to think. A lot of people in it fought in Revolution of 1917. Plus life in Russia was tougher then in Italy, people are tougher. I can have 20 million of my soldiers all equipped and pretty up your ass. As for Germany, who said i am gonna go into this war alone i am sure some of my allies will keep Germany occupied until i take Italy and then attack Germany.

OOC: Yeah, your army fought well. Basically because you had to have NKVD agents behind your soldiers with orders to put a bullet in the back of their heads if they did not perform well, tried to surrender, or try to run away.

OOC: Yeah, your army fought well. Basically because you had to have NKVD agents behind your soldiers with orders to put a bullet in the back of their heads if they did not perform well, tried to surrender, or try to run away.

OOC: Don't believe everything Hollywood tells you.

The only ones with NKVD agents behind their backs were those in Shtrafbats. They were either recruited from gulags, prisons or were ex-soldiers in the red army who commited some kind of offense. Less then a million total men were in Shtrafbats at any point during the war

The rest of the Russian army didn't have NKVD behind their backs then they were fighting for their country. Take my Great Grandfather for example. He didn't have anyone behind his back, yet he still did his job of politruk, to get up then the bullets and shells are flying and all other men are covering their heads, to raise the other men into the attack. He didn't have NKVD behind him, he had his motherland behind him, that was more then enough rason to fight for him and millions of those like him.

Thats not to belittle the contribution of men in Shtrafbats they had it the hardest, their bodies weren't counted, they were worse supplied then anyone else and yes they did have NKVD breathing on their necks.

The Russians were highly motivated by all the propaganda saying that the USSR was the best place on earth and that people from other countries would wait along the roads to welcome the Sovjets.

Motivation is everything.

The Russians were highly motivated by all the propaganda saying that the USSR was the best place on earth and that people from other countries would wait along the roads to welcome the Sovjets.

Motivation is everything.

Also a little thing called motherland played a role, just like in all other Russian wars.

Also a little thing called motherland played a role, just like in all other Russian wars.
Oh, the Rodina. And General Winter.

Oh, the Rodina. And General Winter.

Oh you one of those people who think winter was the reason Soviets beat the Germans are you?

Well all i have to say is you're ignorant. Soviet soldiers were worse equiped and prepared for the winter, plus we were fighting for 4 years, winters and summers. But i guess you gonna deny that and just say it was the winter and the winter killed over 10 million Germans and their allies on the eastern front.

Well, the winter was abig factor, you can't say it wasn't. Hitler refused to produce winter equipment for the wehrmacht as he didn't want to reduce the number of consumer goods being produced. This helped the subsequent Russian counter attack no end. I'm certainly not trying to denigrate the bravery of the average russian soldier, but the weather factor did play a big part in the Russian victories of 1943 and 1944.

OOC: Pushka. For the record, it was Siberian reinforcements, which were trained to fight in Winter conditions that really helped the Russians. The winter did fuxxor the Germans over. But prior to this, the Rains helped slow the Panzer's, and other tanks. Since (Not even you) can deny the poor state of Russian Infrastructure, the dirt roads turned to mud, screwing the German tanks. The fight of Moscow, had a couple points. Originally they were delayed by Counter-attacks, from the Soviets. Then Winter came in. Between the failure of tanks and such. The constant fighting. The bitter cold, and the failure to take Moscow. The Germans were demoralized beyond belief. Then, with the snow and such, the Siberian forces which you brought, helped whoop ass, which was the turning point of the war. So the winter did help, but it couldn't win a war by itself.

Now Pushka, you did fight for four years. But, they reached Moscow in the first year of fighting. This was the first winter for both sides. The russians knew it was coming though, whereas the Germans (IE: Hitler) refused to believe it/prepare for it.

Although the winter didn't kill very many people. It DID give a large number of them equipment problems, meaning the Germans had to resort to Horse and Buggy for supplies, it also gave many men Frostbite, and other cold related problems. So the winter did help, but your also right, without Russian men to push them back, the winter can't win it alone. But don't deny General Winter his Star's either. ;) He has helped you a lot in your history.

OOC: Pushka. For the record, it was Siberian reinforcements, which were trained to fight in Winter conditions that really helped the Russians. The winter did fuxxor the Germans over. But prior to this, the Rains helped slow the Panzer's, and other tanks. Since (Not even you) can deny the poor state of Russian Infrastructure, the dirt roads turned to mud, screwing the German tanks. The fight of Moscow, had a couple points. Originally they were delayed by Counter-attacks, from the Soviets. Then Winter came in. Between the failure of tanks and such. The constant fighting. The bitter cold, and the failure to take Moscow. The Germans were demoralized beyond belief. Then, with the snow and such, the Siberian forces which you brought, helped whoop ass, which was the turning point of the war. So the winter did help, but it couldn't win a war by itself.

Now Pushka, you did fight for four years. But, they reached Moscow in the first year of fighting. This was the first winter for both sides. The russians knew it was coming though, whereas the Germans (IE: Hitler) refused to believe it/prepare for it.

Although the winter didn't kill very many people. It DID give a large number of them equipment problems, meaning the Germans had to resort to Horse and Buggy for supplies, it also gave many men Frostbite, and other cold related problems. So the winter did help, but your also right, without Russian men to push them back, the winter can't win it alone. But don't deny General Winter his Star's either. ;) He has helped you a lot in your history.


Where was no possible way for us to be ready for the winter. Temperatures that occured in 1941 were uncommon, over here in Moscow, temperature rarely falls past -15 C.

Where was no possible way for us to be ready for the winter. Temperatures that occured in 1941 were uncommon, over here in Moscow, temperature rarely falls past -15 C.
Yeah, the winter of '41 was very harsh even by Russian standards.

OOC: Please end this debate on the Red Army!!!! Both sides put up good arguments, but neither will give in, so we'll agree to disagree. END. Now, back to the IC...

IC:

To: Fuhrer Adolf Hitler, Berlin
From: Il Duce Benito Mussolini, Rome

We thank you for your offer of Wehrmacht support, and we accept it willingly. We shall provide the soldiers with necessary provisions, however all equipment must be provided by you. We have observed the effectiveness of German military equipment and have designated it superior to the current Italian equipment. We therefore propose a joint project to develop new equipment, mainly for the use of the Italian army but also for the Germans if needed. In return, we offer wealth and resources from our Mediterranean campaign, which will surely be won by the Italian people.

Regards,
Il Duce Benito Mussolini