NationStates Jolt Archive

Whoever rules Crimsdale is a blood thirsty mad man. They started a war over a murder of 50 violent Neo-Nazi protesters who were the first to attack, Pushkan police forces were just acting in self defense. Yet they call it an unjust slaughter. So is killing 9 million of Pushkan citizens which is one of the possibilities of the war between Pushka and Crimsdale, is that a just slaughter? Aid me, i ask you, my nation has no hope unless you help us. Let the justice prevail, let not an emperialistic gov't disrespect the holy right every nation has of its sovereignty. Hear my words nations of the earth, hear my words, those are the words of desperate, yet proud people. Aid me.

bump

bum p

OOC: What tech? Future, Modern?

You know, I have mercenaries

The war hungry nation of LivLiNaTer will pledge their alligence to any worthy war. Also I'm new so what do you mean when you say "Bump"?

OOC: I hope you know.. Not many people care if a Dec '04 nation is wiped out. You might want to consider a treaty instead of war.. But I could really careless.. For obvious reasons... I'am after all, The Fascist Confederacy.

OOC: Its modern, like this day kind of modern.

Mercenaries? That is great, i take anything, cost doesn't matter at this point. Well as long as its within my compacity.

The nation of Sweet Horne is prepared to answer your call for help. My nations military is ready for deployment to any point on the globe. My army is around 8.6 million men. Most of them are highly trained shock troops. My nations army is equiped with advanced tech including dropships (not space-capable) and blaster rifles. Just say the word and SH forces will come in as peace keepers.

Well, then The ONI Concordiat will supply all support to Crimsdale. The fascist leadership there is a very intelligent one, and your execution of protestors has offended the Concordiat as well as Crimsdale.

OOC: Its modern, like this day kind of modern.

Mercenaries? That is great, i take anything, cost doesn't matter at this point. Well as long as its within my compacity.

OOC: I don't think you could afford much according to your Economic Statistics:
Administration: $4,370,042,107.97 17%
Social Welfare: $4,884,164,708.91 19%
Healthcare: $3,598,858,206.56 14%
Education: $3,084,735,605.62 12%
Religion & Spirituality: $0.00 0%
Defence: $4,112,980,807.50 16%
Law & Order: $2,570,613,004.69 10%
Commerce: $3,084,735,605.62 12%
Public Transport: $0.00 0%
The Environment: $0.00 0%
Social Equality: $0.00 0%

Exchange Rate: 2.8957 rubles = $1
Gross Domestic Product: $57,818,371,887.84
GDP Per Capita: $6,424.26
Unemployment Rate: 19.73%
Consumption: $31,839,750,000.00
Government Budget: $30,242,505,937.50
Government Expenditures: $25,706,130,046.87
Goverment Waste: $4,536,375,890.63
Exports: $7,465,726,846.82
Imports: $7,193,235,005.86
Trade Surplus: $272,491,840.97

(Go here if you don't believe me: http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=Pushka )

OOC: Its modern, like this day kind of modern.

Mercenaries? That is great, i take anything, cost doesn't matter at this point. Well as long as its within my compacity.
check your economy here (http://www.sunsetrpg.com/economystatistics.php) orhere (http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=pushka)
then visit the link in my sig. I would be willing to negotiate prices if it's too much

The nation of Sweet Horne is prepared to answer your call for help. My nations military is ready for deployment to any point on the globe. My army is around 8.6 million men. Most of them are highly trained shock troops. My nations army is equiped with advanced tech including dropships (not space-capable) and blaster rifles. Just say the word and SH forces will come in as peace keepers.

Thank you, you can place your troops near the caitol city of Moscovi.

OOC: actual war is gonna be going on in this thread http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=380289&page=2&highlight=Pushka

so post your troop deployment in there.

OOC: I don't think you could afford much according to your Economic Statistics:
Administration: $4,370,042,107.97 17%
Social Welfare: $4,884,164,708.91 19%
Healthcare: $3,598,858,206.56 14%
Education: $3,084,735,605.62 12%
Religion & Spirituality: $0.00 0%
Defence: $4,112,980,807.50 16%
Law & Order: $2,570,613,004.69 10%
Commerce: $3,084,735,605.62 12%
Public Transport: $0.00 0%
The Environment: $0.00 0%
Social Equality: $0.00 0%

Exchange Rate: 2.8957 rubles = $1
Gross Domestic Product: $57,818,371,887.84
GDP Per Capita: $6,424.26
Unemployment Rate: 19.73%
Consumption: $31,839,750,000.00
Government Budget: $30,242,505,937.50
Government Expenditures: $25,706,130,046.87
Goverment Waste: $4,536,375,890.63
Exports: $7,465,726,846.82
Imports: $7,193,235,005.86
Trade Surplus: $272,491,840.97

(Go here if you don't believe me: http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=Pushka )

OOC: I believe you and i know about that site, well if i am to be wiped out so be it but atleast i am not gonna do what another country tells me to do. Besides i got few things up my sleeve.

Well, then The ONI Concordiat will supply all support to Crimsdale. The fascist leadership there is a very intelligent one, and your execution of protestors has offended the Concordiat as well as Crimsdale.

The Concordiat army is oriented towards tanks, and has an extremely effective Panzer force, made up of Guderian II heavy tanks.
Guderian II
Armor:10-inches on all sides
Armament: 2x 20mm cannon, 2x 12.8cm cannon
Speed: 17mph
Tactical Use: Heavy breakthrough/Infantry Support

The Concordiat army is oriented towards tanks, and has an extremely effective Panzer force, made up of Guderian II heavy tanks.
Guderian II
Armor:10-inches on all sides
Armament: 2x 20mm cannon, 2x 12.8cm cannon
Speed: 17mph
Tactical Use: Heavy breakthrough/Infantry Support
Perhaps you will need some extra infantry support?

The Concordiat army is oriented towards tanks, and has an extremely effective Panzer force, made up of Guderian II heavy tanks.
Guderian II
Armor:10-inches on all sides
Armament: 2x 20mm cannon, 2x 12.8cm cannon
Speed: 17mph
Tactical Use: Heavy breakthrough/Infantry Support

OOC: If you declaring war on me its not in this thread its in another thread.

Perhaps you will need some extra infantry support?

OOC: Everyone who wishes to ally against me please make a new thread or something this one is not made for that reason.

OOC: Everyone who wishes to ally against me please make a new thread or something this one is not made for that reason.
I'm just trying to get the better buck

I'm just trying to get the better buck

OOC: And i am just trying not to get unjustly wiped out. Besides i don't really think anyone would need any of your weapons to defeat an almost weaponless country of 9 million. Do you?

I don't make alliances, with anyone but three nations. Anybody else is just hiring me for a job

OOC: And i am just trying not to get unjustly wiped out. Besides i don't really think anyone would need any of your weapons to defeat an almost weaponless country of 9 million. Do you?
You could wipe his tanks out easier than you think

You could wipe his tanks out easier than you think

OOC: Can you enlighten me on that matter?

OOC: Can you enlighten me on that matter?
all you have to do is take out the treads, but you would never be able to take on many tanks at a time, so you would need to draw them into an urban setting where they would more than likely go in single file down the streets. Take out the first and last in each row, bam, tanks are almost useless.

The Grand Duchy of Savuroun is prepared to deploy our military within eight hours. Say the word and we shall come to your aid Pushka. We have can have our JSF strike fighters to your country within two hours to begin Peacekeeping operations and maintain civil conditions. Also, a special operations group known only as the Black Dragons will be made available to for your use.

Black Dragon Squad:
Team members:6
Training: Assasination, sabutoage, demolition, anti-terrorism/counter-insurgency
Weapons:
-Each memeber has:
--one guass rifle
--three flash bangs
--three fragmentation grenades
--9mm M-9 pistol
Armor:
-Classified-
The black dragons are on loan to the government of Pushka. More military assets will arrive shortly. Our next communique will come when our forces are fully assembled and dug in.

Let it be known to all parties involved, the bloodshed must stop. The Duke of Savuroun is willing to do whatever it takes to ensure stability is returned to the region. We declare our open support of Pushka and Sweet Horne.

The nation of Sweet Horne is prepared to answer your call for help. My nations military is ready for deployment to any point on the globe. My army is around 8.6 million men. Most of them are highly trained shock troops. My nations army is equiped with advanced tech including dropships (not space-capable) and blaster rifles. Just say the word and SH forces will come in as peace keepers.

OOC: Uh, no. No nation is able to maintain an army 10% of their population unless they're being invaded and forced to conscript everyone they can. Even 5% is pushin' it during peacetime.

You also need workers for factories, agriculture and such, and it's generally assumed that at least a third of your population will be too elderly, too disabled, or too young to serve.

Read thy stickies!

If our help is required, we can have a carrier battle group on station shortly.

BCVN Andal (Nimitz CVN)
-25 A-17 Warhawk Naval Variant (Thankyou, Phoenix Dynamix)
-40 F-35 JSF Naval Variants
-2 E-2C Hawkeyes
-Full Complement of Rotary Air Vehicles

BCV Oak (Bubnor-01 CV)
-30 A-4X Skyhawk II
-20 F-14 Tomcat
-Full Complement of Rotary Air Vehicles

UNS Perrie G. Scavies (Spruance)
UNS Gurnard D. Gutwhistle (Spruance)
UNS Randall L. Waterhouse (Spruance)

UNS Pugilist (Ticonderoga)
UNS Ninja (Ticonderoga)

UNS Fell Wind (AEGIS)
UNS Zephyr Breeze (AEGIS)

3 Perry-Class Frigate/Destroyer

+ Support/Supply Ships.

OOC: Can you enlighten me on that matter?
10 inches = 254mm

Penetration figures for some cheaper infantry weapons
RPG-7V: 330mm
later RPG models: 600+ mm
RPG-16: 350mm
RPG-18 (64mm disposable): 375mm
RPG-22 (80mm disposable): 400mm
RPG-26 (72.5mm disposable): 500mm
RPG-27 (105mm disposable): 750mm
B-11 107mm Recoilless Rifle: 380mm
M72 LAW (82mm disposable): 305+ mm
M136 AT4 (84mm disposable): 400mm
Fagot (AT-4) ATGM: 480mm
Metis (AT-7) ATGM: 460mm
Metis-M (AT-13) ATGM: 1000mm
Kornet (AT-14) ATGM: 1100-1200mm
Khrizantema (AT-15) ATGM: 1000+ mm
Eryx ATGM: 900mm
and so on . . .

In fact, the only one I could find that won't go through is the B-10 82mm recoilless rifle. Even if he has excellent composite armor, that will only protect against weapons with 400mm of HEAT penetration or less. As for tank rounds, a Soviet 100mm APFSDS fired from a T-12 towed antitank gun should penetrate at 2 kilometers for at least the sides and rear (no mention of sloping, but can't be certain). Most NATO 105mm guns will also do the job.


For that matter, the twin 128mm guns on that thing will really interfere with each other (loading issues), and it's slow enough that you can easily get around for a solid shot. My analysis: rolling coffin.

*Scrambler Code 2.583764c*

**Confidential**

To: Government of Pushka

From: Lady Tanya Bryce, Governor of Chimaea

RE: Crimsdale Situation

Warmest greetings,

I have been adviced on the situation developing in Pushka with regards to Crimsdale. Since this will have an impact upon Baron stability, The Commonwealth is prepared to offer the following:

1. Negotiation between the parties concerned. We can also bring this matter to the eyes of the International Mediation Council.

2. Military and economical assistance. Whilst a major part of our military is gearing up for the conflict in Syskeyia, we can give assistance via the Second Fleet. We would prefer to avoid a military engagement, however. A diplomatic solution is always preferrable. We are also easily able to give a major economical boost to your war effort.

I also note with concern that the incident that has sparked this situation seems to be a case of excessive violence used against a protest, and the law that forbids all but government-approved protests. Chimaea has a very high civil rights record and we strongly urge you to rethink this law and to start an independant inquiry into the deaths.

Yours,
Lady Bryce

**Message Ends**

FYI evil woody thoughts - my nation has 92 million, 8.6 is about 6-7% of my population. Defence is the second largest order in my counrty. Its quite possible to have thatmany when you just got out of another peacekeeping mision from a massive war in northern europe. The serving age is 17 to 50 in my nation. Military service is mandatory of all civilians. andbesides, if your going to complain, do it in the other thread or did you not read this thread to catch up on events.

OOC:No, actualy 8.6 would be even more than 10% if you only have 96 million. Can you post a link to the thread he's attacking you in?

*Scrambler Code 2.583764c*

**Confidential**

To: Government of Pushka

From: Lady Tanya Bryce, Governor of Chimaea

RE: Crimsdale Situation

Warmest greetings,

I have been adviced on the situation developing in Pushka with regards to Crimsdale. Since this will have an impact upon Baron stability, The Commonwealth is prepared to offer the following:

1. Negotiation between the parties concerned. We can also bring this matter to the eyes of the International Mediation Council.

2. Military and economical assistance. Whilst a major part of our military is gearing up for the conflict in Syskeyia, we can give assistance via the Second Fleet. We would prefer to avoid a military engagement, however. A diplomatic solution is always preferrable. We are also easily able to give a major economical boost to your war effort.

I also note with concern that the incident that has sparked this situation seems to be a case of excessive violence used against a protest, and the law that forbids all but government-approved protests. Chimaea has a very high civil rights record and we strongly urge you to rethink this law and to start an independant inquiry into the deaths.

Yours,
Lady Bryce

**Message Ends**


You misunderstood the incident. Those neo-nazis were required by law to be put to prison, but they resisted the arrest and tried to attack the authorities, unprovoked. Three of the authorities are in hospital right now, suffering from sewere knife wounds. I will apreciate any help you can give me.

10 inches = 254mm

Penetration figures for some cheaper infantry weapons
RPG-7V: 330mm
later RPG models: 600+ mm
RPG-16: 350mm
RPG-18 (64mm disposable): 375mm
RPG-22 (80mm disposable): 400mm
RPG-26 (72.5mm disposable): 500mm
RPG-27 (105mm disposable): 750mm
B-11 107mm Recoilless Rifle: 380mm
M72 LAW (82mm disposable): 305+ mm
M136 AT4 (84mm disposable): 400mm
Fagot (AT-4) ATGM: 480mm
Metis (AT-7) ATGM: 460mm
Metis-M (AT-13) ATGM: 1000mm
Kornet (AT-14) ATGM: 1100-1200mm
Khrizantema (AT-15) ATGM: 1000+ mm
Eryx ATGM: 900mm
and so on . . .

In fact, the only one I could find that won't go through is the B-10 82mm recoilless rifle. Even if he has excellent composite armor, that will only protect against weapons with 400mm of HEAT penetration or less. As for tank rounds, a Soviet 100mm APFSDS fired from a T-12 towed antitank gun should penetrate at 2 kilometers for at least the sides and rear (no mention of sloping, but can't be certain). Most NATO 105mm guns will also do the job.


For that matter, the twin 128mm guns on that thing will really interfere with each other (loading issues), and it's slow enough that you can easily get around for a solid shot. My analysis: rolling coffin.


Do you have any of those weapons for sale?

(OOC) In case CSJ does not have the chance to follow this thread, you may want to check out his storefront threads that pertain to what you are interested in.
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=281544
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=281547

Do you have any of those weapons for sale?
SMAW
Caliber: 83mm rocket
Weight: 7.54 kg w/o rocket, 13.39-13.85 kg loaded
Length: 759.5mm carrying, 1371.6mm extended for firing
Effective Range: 250m against 1x2m target, 500m against tank-sized target
A manportable, reusable 83mm rocket launcher for infantry operations. It has excellent accuracy at combat ranges, which is further improved by the inclusion of a 9mm spotting rifle on the side, which uses rounds that match the ballistic profile of the rockets. Rocket types include HEDP (High Explosive Dual Purpose), HEAA (High Explosive Anti-Armor), and FTG (follow-through grenade)
Cost: $13,000

M136 AT4 light antitank weapon
Caliber: 84mm rocket
Weight: 6.7 kg (loaded)
Length: 1020 mm
Effective range: 300 m
Maximum range: 2100 m
Minimum range: 10 m
Armor penetration: 400mm
This is the replacement for the old LAAW rockets, and is a single shot tube housing an 84mm antitank rocket. The weapon has negligible recoil, and, unlike its predecessor, it does not need to be extended before firing. After the rocket is fired, the tube is discarded.
Cost: $1480

BGM-71F TOW-2B
Weight: 22.6 kg
Speed: 300 m/s (1080 km/h)
Range: 4.5 km
Guidance: LOS (wire command)
Warhead: 6.1 kg dual EFP
This is an upgrade of the TOW-2 missile that includes slightly longer range and an overflight top attack (OTA) capability, using two downward firing EFP (Explosive Formed Projectile) warheads. The tandem warheads combine with the natural advantages of the top-attack profile to defeat most tank armor, including newer ERA, with a reasonable chance of success. It has the same weight and can be fired from the same launchers as the TOW-2A.
Cost: $80,000 (missile), $180,000 (launcher)

BGM-71E TOW-2A
Weight: 22.6 kg
Speed: 300 m/s (1080 km/h)
Range: 4 km
Guidance: LOS (wire command)
Warhead: 5.9 kg tandem HEAT (1000mm penetration against ERA)
An improved version of the original TOW-2, which boasts a new tandem warhead with 25% greater penetration. The basic system is rather heavy, weighing in at 92.89 kg with missile and launcher, and though it can be broken down to be manportable, it’s more likely to be found mounted on light vehicles like the HMMWV and FAV. The missile is also fired from helicopters and heavier vehicles like the M2/M3 Bradley and ITV, which have more specialized launchers.
Cost: $65,000 (missile), $180,000 (launcher)

BGM-71B TOW
Weight: 18.9 kg
Speed: 300 m/s (1080 km/h)
Range: 3.75 km
Guidance: LOS (wire command)
Warhead: 3.9 kg HEAT (600mm penetration)
An older variant of the TOW missile. Though it has only limited effectiveness against modern MBTs, it can still eliminate them if it strikes the side or rear armor, and it’s quite effective against older tanks and more lightly armored vehicles. Plus, it’s rather cheap compared to newer ATGMs
Cost: $23,000 (missile), $102,000 (launcher)

FGM-148 Javelin
Weight: 11.8 kg (22.3 kg missile w/ launcher)
Range: 2.5 km
Guidance: IIR
Warhead: 8.4 kg tandem HEAT (800+mm behind ERA)
A modern fire-and-forget infantry ATGM boasting an IIR seeker and a selectable attack profile. The weapon is manportable, with the complete system (missile & launch unit) weighing 22.3 kg. The missile’s seeker works in the same way as that of the AGM-65D maverick in that the gunner locks it onto a specific IR image, which the missile guides itself to. The attack profile is selectable and includes two options. The first is the direct attack mode, which is used against lighter vehicles and bunkers/buildings. In it, the missile flies to a maximum height of 50m and strikes the target head on. The second, which is used against tanks and other heavy armor, is the top attack mode, where the missile flies to a height of 150m and then arcs downward to the target, hitting the top armor, which is the weakest of the tank. The missile naturally boasts a tandem warhead for use against ERA, and a decent penetration of 800+mm. The most notable advantage, however, is the fire-and-forget capability, which leaves the gunner with the opportunity to reload or seek cover immediately after launching the missile, rather than having to wait for it to strike the target.
Cost: $65,000 (missile), $130,000 (launch unit)

Eryx ATGM
Weight: 26 kg (complete system)
Speed: 140 m/s (502 km/h) average
Range: 50-600m
Warhead: tandem HEAT (900mm penetration)
Guidance: SACLOS (wire)
A short range SACLOS guided antitank missile for use by infantry units. The missile uses a soft-launch technique, where it is ejected from the launcher before the motor ignites, allowing it to be employed in confined spaces such as urban and jungle combat situations, and it can be fired safely from enclosed spaces.
Cost: $50,000 (missile), $210,000 (launcher)

Milan 2 ATGM
Weight: 6.73 kg (missile), 16.4 kg (complete unit)
Speed: 200 m/w (720 km/h)
Range: 400-2000m
Warhead: 2.7 kg HEAT (352mm penetration)
Guidance: SACLOS
This is an older 2nd Generation ATGM. Though it lacks the firepower of current units, it is an excellent starting unit for younger armies, as it is not very expensive, and is good against older tanks.
Cost: $27,000 (missile), $85,000 (launcher)

SMAW
Caliber: 83mm rocket
Weight: 7.54 kg w/o rocket, 13.39-13.85 kg loaded
Length: 759.5mm carrying, 1371.6mm extended for firing
Effective Range: 250m against 1x2m target, 500m against tank-sized target
A manportable, reusable 83mm rocket launcher for infantry operations. It has excellent accuracy at combat ranges, which is further improved by the inclusion of a 9mm spotting rifle on the side, which uses rounds that match the ballistic profile of the rockets. Rocket types include HEDP (High Explosive Dual Purpose), HEAA (High Explosive Anti-Armor), and FTG (follow-through grenade)
Cost: $13,000

M136 AT4 light antitank weapon
Caliber: 84mm rocket
Weight: 6.7 kg (loaded)
Length: 1020 mm
Effective range: 300 m
Maximum range: 2100 m
Minimum range: 10 m
Armor penetration: 400mm
This is the replacement for the old LAAW rockets, and is a single shot tube housing an 84mm antitank rocket. The weapon has negligible recoil, and, unlike its predecessor, it does not need to be extended before firing. After the rocket is fired, the tube is discarded.
Cost: $1480

BGM-71F TOW-2B
Weight: 22.6 kg
Speed: 300 m/s (1080 km/h)
Range: 4.5 km
Guidance: LOS (wire command)
Warhead: 6.1 kg dual EFP
This is an upgrade of the TOW-2 missile that includes slightly longer range and an overflight top attack (OTA) capability, using two downward firing EFP (Explosive Formed Projectile) warheads. The tandem warheads combine with the natural advantages of the top-attack profile to defeat most tank armor, including newer ERA, with a reasonable chance of success. It has the same weight and can be fired from the same launchers as the TOW-2A.
Cost: $80,000 (missile), $180,000 (launcher)

BGM-71E TOW-2A
Weight: 22.6 kg
Speed: 300 m/s (1080 km/h)
Range: 4 km
Guidance: LOS (wire command)
Warhead: 5.9 kg tandem HEAT (1000mm penetration against ERA)
An improved version of the original TOW-2, which boasts a new tandem warhead with 25% greater penetration. The basic system is rather heavy, weighing in at 92.89 kg with missile and launcher, and though it can be broken down to be manportable, it’s more likely to be found mounted on light vehicles like the HMMWV and FAV. The missile is also fired from helicopters and heavier vehicles like the M2/M3 Bradley and ITV, which have more specialized launchers.
Cost: $65,000 (missile), $180,000 (launcher)

BGM-71B TOW
Weight: 18.9 kg
Speed: 300 m/s (1080 km/h)
Range: 3.75 km
Guidance: LOS (wire command)
Warhead: 3.9 kg HEAT (600mm penetration)
An older variant of the TOW missile. Though it has only limited effectiveness against modern MBTs, it can still eliminate them if it strikes the side or rear armor, and it’s quite effective against older tanks and more lightly armored vehicles. Plus, it’s rather cheap compared to newer ATGMs
Cost: $23,000 (missile), $102,000 (launcher)

FGM-148 Javelin
Weight: 11.8 kg (22.3 kg missile w/ launcher)
Range: 2.5 km
Guidance: IIR
Warhead: 8.4 kg tandem HEAT (800+mm behind ERA)
A modern fire-and-forget infantry ATGM boasting an IIR seeker and a selectable attack profile. The weapon is manportable, with the complete system (missile & launch unit) weighing 22.3 kg. The missile’s seeker works in the same way as that of the AGM-65D maverick in that the gunner locks it onto a specific IR image, which the missile guides itself to. The attack profile is selectable and includes two options. The first is the direct attack mode, which is used against lighter vehicles and bunkers/buildings. In it, the missile flies to a maximum height of 50m and strikes the target head on. The second, which is used against tanks and other heavy armor, is the top attack mode, where the missile flies to a height of 150m and then arcs downward to the target, hitting the top armor, which is the weakest of the tank. The missile naturally boasts a tandem warhead for use against ERA, and a decent penetration of 800+mm. The most notable advantage, however, is the fire-and-forget capability, which leaves the gunner with the opportunity to reload or seek cover immediately after launching the missile, rather than having to wait for it to strike the target.
Cost: $65,000 (missile), $130,000 (launch unit)

Eryx ATGM
Weight: 26 kg (complete system)
Speed: 140 m/s (502 km/h) average
Range: 50-600m
Warhead: tandem HEAT (900mm penetration)
Guidance: SACLOS (wire)
A short range SACLOS guided antitank missile for use by infantry units. The missile uses a soft-launch technique, where it is ejected from the launcher before the motor ignites, allowing it to be employed in confined spaces such as urban and jungle combat situations, and it can be fired safely from enclosed spaces.
Cost: $50,000 (missile), $210,000 (launcher)

Milan 2 ATGM
Weight: 6.73 kg (missile), 16.4 kg (complete unit)
Speed: 200 m/w (720 km/h)
Range: 400-2000m
Warhead: 2.7 kg HEAT (352mm penetration)
Guidance: SACLOS
This is an older 2nd Generation ATGM. Though it lacks the firepower of current units, it is an excellent starting unit for younger armies, as it is not very expensive, and is good against older tanks.
Cost: $27,000 (missile), $85,000 (launcher)

Pushka's defense council:

For right now we are prepared to pay you 20 million dollars for Eryx ATGM launchers and missiles. We request 50 launchers and 200 missiles for the first shipment, as war progresses we might spend more funds on more of your weapons. Do we have a deal?

Nation of Pushka puts 50 million into a development of sea mines and production of 100000 of them. Once produced the mines will be put in the bays of Pushka's two only sea ports.

The Republic of Siap shall fully support Pushka. We are deploying our Urban Assault Division which consists of 100,000 specialized urban warfare soldiers. We are also sending a small naval fleet which consists of several PT boats, a sub, frigates and an aircraft carrier.
~Siap

Due to the dilapitated state of your military and the lack of powerful allies, I suggest that you try to negotiate a peace treaty with Crimsdale. Otherwise, you'll most likely be defeated.

The Kingdom of San Lucia shall remian neutral and send 1000 military observers to the conflict, to make sure this war is fought in a civilized manner.

Due to the dilapitated state of your military and the lack of powerful allies, I suggest that you try to negotiate a peace treaty with Crimsdale. Otherwise, you'll most likely be defeated.

The Kingdom of San Lucia shall remian neutral and send 1000 military observers to the conflict, to make sure this war is fought in a civilized manner.

I shall not surrender any of my nation's lands or be forced to implement foreign policies in my gov't. As for powerful allies, do not speak until you have seen, they just haven't showed up yet and we still have time.

Pushka's defense council:

For right now we are prepared to pay you 20 million dollars for Eryx ATGM launchers and missiles. We request 50 launchers and 200 missiles for the first shipment, as war progresses we might spend more funds on more of your weapons. Do we have a deal?
Private Message to Pushka Defense Council
We are perfectly willing to provide the desired units, and due to the state of emergency, will provide air deliver, with the shipment expected to arrive within 48 hours.
It has also been decided that, due to the fact that you are being threatened by a much larger nation with imperialistic desires, we will provide additional small arms and ammunition in an aid package. This is to include 1000 FIM-92A Stinger missiles, 200 Stinger Launch Units, 5000 Predator disposable antitank rockets, and 200 NTW-20 anti-materiel rifles chambered for the 14.5mm KPV round (total value: $80+ million). It is as yet undetermined whether or not we will send combat units to assist, though the proximity of our Northern and Ferrusian Garrisons make it a notable option.


OFFICIAL STATEMENT
While the people and government of Clan Smoke Jaguar cannot condone the slaughter that has occurd in Pushka, we cannot accept this as a reason to go to war. Using force to dictate the policy of weaker nations is an open act of aggression that reveals the imperialistic nature of the Crimdale regime. At current, we have not decided to contribute forces directly to the conflict, however, we will be sending aid and relief to the people of Pushka, who will no doubt suffer greatly due to Crimdale's actions.
For now, we will not be directly involved, but any attack on Smoke Jaguar personnel or interference with trade, will be regarded as an act of war against Clan Smoke Jaguar, warranting immediate retaliation.

Private Message to Pushka Defense Council
We are perfectly willing to provide the desired units, and due to the state of emergency, will provide air deliver, with the shipment expected to arrive within 48 hours.
It has also been decided that, due to the fact that you are being threatened by a much larger nation with imperialistic desires, we will provide additional small arms and ammunition in an aid package. This is to include 1000 FIM-92A Stinger missiles, 200 Stinger Launch Units, 5000 Predator disposable antitank rockets, and 200 NTW-20 anti-materiel rifles chambered for the 14.5mm KPV round (total value: $80+ million). It is as yet undetermined whether or not we will send combat units to assist, though the proximity of our Northern and Ferrusian Garrisons make it a notable option.


OFFICIAL STATEMENT
While the people and government of Clan Smoke Jaguar cannot condone the slaughter that has occurd in Pushka, we cannot accept this as a reason to go to war. Using force to dictate the policy of weaker nations is an open act of aggression that reveals the imperialistic nature of the Crimdale regime. At current, we have not decided to contribute forces directly to the conflict, however, we will be sending aid and relief to the people of Pushka, who will no doubt suffer greatly due to Crimdale's actions.
For now, we will not be directly involved, but any attack on Smoke Jaguar personnel or interference with trade, will be regarded as an act of war against Clan Smoke Jaguar, warranting immediate retaliation.


I accept your aid with open heart. In this time of war it is most needed. But do not let yourself be blinded by enemy propaganda. Those neo-nazis were not as innocent as our enemies might want you to think. They did not receive a permission to assemble, they have blocked the traffic near the main street of capitol city. For that authorities decided to take them in. Yet the protesters instead of peacefully surrendering their weapons (knives, few pistols) they attacked the authorities unprovoked. It just came in from the hospital that two of three policemen injured in the incident then neo-nazis frist attacked, died from the received knife and pistol wounds. Take ththose facts into consideration.

Should all Neo-Nazis and all of their fascist and communist ilk die a horrible and firey death, my conscience would not be burdened. However, I must not let my personal feelings interfere with my obligations to the international community. Of course the protestors would not receive permission from you; they're protesting. No nation that requires governmental permission in order to assemble is going to allow dissidents that right of assembly. It is terrible that three of your law enforcement personnel lost their lives, but what of the nearly fifty who died doing nothing more than defending their right to speak? According to the original news reports, the protest was non-violent until the police moved in. Thus, logic concludes that it is the police's fault. Know that I am not defending the fascists, I am merely stating events as they appear to have unfolded. I will cease aggresions against Pushka the minute they compensate the families of those who died and repeal the totalitarian law that led to this entire incident.

King Dayan I

Should all Neo-Nazis and all of their fascist and communist ilk die a horrible and firey death, my conscience would not be burdened. However, I must not let my personal feelings interfere with my obligations to the international community. Of course the protestors would not receive permission from you; they're protesting. No nation that requires governmental permission in order to assemble is going to allow dissidents that right of assembly. It is terrible that three of your law enforcement personnel lost their lives, but what of the nearly fifty who died doing nothing more than defending their right to speak? According to the original news reports, the protest was non-violent until the police moved in. Thus, logic concludes that it is the police's fault. Know that I am not defending the fascists, I am merely stating events as they appear to have unfolded. I will cease aggresions against Pushka the minute they compensate the families of those who died and repeal the totalitarian law that led to this entire incident.

King Dayan I

So your solution to the problem is to kill the other 10 million of Pushkan citizens? And you speak to me about morals? As i said the fact is that nazis attacked unprovoked. My nation is not going to allow racism, and if yours does then truly we are moraly above you and this is also a fight of racism represented by you and social equality represented by me and my allies. As for the agression, do not worry, we can handle ourselves. I will not have my country be denied of its birth given right of sovereignty by any nation, yours icluded.

So your solution to the problem is to kill the other 10 million of Pushkan citizens? And you speak to me about morals? As i said the fact is that nazis attacked unprovoked. My nation is not going to allow racism, and if yours does then truly we are moraly above you and this is also a fight of racism represented by you and social equality represented by me and my allies. As for the agression, do not worry, we can handle ourselves. I will not have my country be denied of its birth given right of sovereignty by any nation, yours icluded.

First of all, where do you get the idea that I am going to kill ten million civilians? That is called genocide. You have the power over who dies and who lives. Only you can spare your soldiers from the flame. The sooner you lay down your arms and agree to negotiate, I will stop fighting you and will do my best to make Crimsdale cease hostilites as well.

No, the Nazis did not attack unprovoked. According to your own news reports, they did no violent act until the police moved in on them. I do not say their retaliation was justified, but your police made the first move.

How exactly does my support of the right of individuals to express themselves equate with racism? How does suppressing that right equate with social equality? You justifications for your crimes are contradictory when exposed to even the slightest logic.

I make no pretense about taking away your sovereignty. I do not want to control your nation or your people. I could not care less about your country, except that you have violated one of the Natural Rights of Man, and then killed those who protested that violation.

The nation of Sweet Horne is prepared to answer your call for help. My nations military is ready for deployment to any point on the globe. My army is around 8.6 million men. Most of them are highly trained shock troops. My nations army is equiped with advanced tech including dropships (not space-capable) and blaster rifles. Just say the word and SH forces will come in as peace keepers.
...You're kidding, right? You're a NOVEMBER nation. I'm an April '03 nation with 3.5 billion citizens and I don't even have an 8.6 million man army.

First of all, where do you get the idea that I am going to kill ten million civilians? That is called genocide. You have the power over who dies and who lives. Only you can spare your soldiers from the flame. The sooner you lay down your arms and agree to negotiate, I will stop fighting you and will do my best to make Crimsdale cease hostilites as well.

No, the Nazis did not attack unprovoked. According to your own news reports, they did no violent act until the police moved in on them. I do not say their retaliation was justified, but your police made the first move.

How exactly does my support of the right of individuals to express themselves equate with racism? How does suppressing that right equate with social equality? You justifications for your crimes are contradictory when exposed to even the slightest logic.

I make no pretense about taking away your sovereignty. I do not want to control your nation or your people. I could not care less about your country, except that you have violated one of the Natural Rights of Man, and then killed those who protested that violation.


They protested that we have a multitude of races in our gov't machine and they consider those races impure and weak. My people will not lay down our arms. We will fight till the last drop of our blood. We will not be defeated by an opresionist imperialistic gov't such as your own. If it is war you want then we shall give you war, a lot of body bags are gonna be going home to your country.

...You're kidding, right? You're a NOVEMBER nation. I'm an April '03 nation with 3.5 billion citizens and I don't even have an 8.6 million man army.
Naah, he can have it. He just has to remember "Every other man gets a rifle. The man without a rifle follows the man with the rifle. The man with the rifle shoots. When the man with the rifle dies . . . "

We will fight till the last drop of our blood. We will not be defeated by an opresionist imperialistic gov't such as your own. If it is war you want then we shall give you war, a lot of body bags are gonna be going home to your country.

My people are not that squeemish. A few body bags, though tragic, will only steel our resolve to ensure that those deaths have meaning. You seem to have only one recourse though, and that is to call me oppressionistic and imperialist; neither of which you have any evidence to support.

My people are not that squeemish. A few body bags, though tragic, will only steel our resolve to ensure that those deaths have meaning. You seem to have only one recourse though, and that is to call me oppressionistic and imperialist; neither of which you have any evidence to support.

Oh really? No evidence? How about starting a war and risking millions of lives over a single gov't policy after that gov't stood up to you and refused to have your foreign nation have an influence in our internal affairs? That makes you both opressionist of nations that do not live up to your own social standards which many consider wrong, and imperialistc cause you are trying to influence my gov't policy and conquer my nation. As for "few" bodybags, maybe a thousand won't matter, maybe even not a hundred thousand. But i plan to kill much more then that.

And what meaning will those deaths have? My nation will never even consider taking your policies. And if by some stroke of luck you win this and force us to pass those laws, once we become stronger we will switch back because thats how we have things running, thats how our people want them to run. Your deaths will not mean anything, to anyone, they will not help anybody, your goal will not be accomplished.

Pushka's right. Using differing moral standards as an excuse to force your policy/views on others is at the heart of imperialism. Your actions themselves are imperialistic, regardless of whether or not you believe so. Even though Clan Smoke Jaguar has some issues with the policy that sparked this, the invasion over such a minor issue is far worse. That's why I'm helping him.

Pushka's right. Using differing moral standards as an excuse to force your policy/views on others is at the heart of imperialism. Your actions themselves are imperialistic, regardless of whether or not you believe so. Even though Clan Smoke Jaguar has some issues with the policy that sparked this, the invasion over such a minor issue is far worse. That's why I'm helping him.

He would not listen to diplomatic overtures for reform after murdering 50 of his citizens for no greater crime than expressing their beliefs. That is a deplorable violation of human rights. If you see my views as imperialistic, I'm sorry. I have made it clear on several occasions that I have no wish or desire to occupy or even conquer Pushka. His claims about me threatening to murder millions of civilians are absurd, and he knows it. The sooner we come to an agreement, the sooner this bloodshed ends.

From what I read, the slaughter came after they violently resisted police attemps to break up the march peacefully. That's not entirely justifiable, but it's not exactly the same as sitting there and gunning them down in cold blood. And they most certainly were killed for a little more than "just expressing their beliefs."
In addition, you're making the classic western mistake that your beliefs are right and universal. A quick check of other cultures shows this not to be true, yet this "holier than thou" attitude persists and starts conflict. Though you're not necessarily murdering millions of civilians, what you are doing is trying to force your policy upon him, which is a clear violation of national sovreignty, hence, imperialistic. And yes, you are willing to sacrifice at least tens of thousands of his people, many of which being innocent civilians, because he doesn't want to cave in, something a nation has every right to do. If you weren't willing to do this, you wouldn't be going through with a war.

Greetings from The Most Holy Emperor,


Dear brothers, we must not be quick to war. We are leaders of Nations, millions if not billions of lives are in our hands.It is our duties to our nations to resolve this incident quickly and without any more bloodshed, then that which has spread. Please be quick to forgive and slow to anger. We can resolve this without open warfare.


In the event peace cannot be achieved, The Holy Empire is willing to send a peacekeeping force of 2,000 infantry and light armor to act as a neutral zone for refugees, and a Medical aid camp for any and all wounded personnel military or civilian.

We believe that governments should look out for the best qualities in people and not just in our lands but in all lands.

From what I read, the slaughter came after they violently resisted police attemps to break up the march peacefully. That's not entirely justifiable, but it's not exactly the same as sitting there and gunning them down in cold blood. And they most certainly were killed for a little more than "just expressing their beliefs."
In addition, you're making the classic western mistake that your beliefs are right and universal. A quick check of other cultures shows this not to be true, yet this "holier than thou" attitude persists and starts conflict. Though you're not necessarily murdering millions of civilians, what you are doing is trying to force your policy upon him, which is a clear violation of national sovreignty, hence, imperialistic. And yes, you are willing to sacrifice at least tens of thousands of his people, many of which being innocent civilians, because he doesn't want to cave in, something a nation has every right to do. If you weren't willing to do this, you wouldn't be going through with a war.

From what I read, 50 protesters were slaughtered after the police tried to break up the protest. According to Pusha, only three police officers died. To say that the protesters acted out of aggresion is a plausible statement, but the facts as presented by Pushka himself seem to slant in favor of my interpretation. As for "expressing their beliefs," they were protesting. He included no information on what they did, so I have to assume innocence until guilt is proven. As for the Western mistake of assuming my beliefs and morals are superior, well, apparently they are. While the West enjoys liberty, equality, and economic success, the rest of the world (for the most part) stagnates in despotism, civil war, and terrorism. As for my actions being imperialistic, yes I am iunfluencing his nation. However, imperialism is defined as "one nation influencing another for military, economic, or terrirtorial benefit." I gain none of those things from this war. I gain only a clean conscience. Sacrifice thousands of his citizens? Perhaps. But I can assure you, their sacrifice will not be in vain. If I can bring liberty and freedom to Pushka, their death, as well as the deaths of my soldiers, will have a meaning.

...You're kidding, right? You're a NOVEMBER nation. I'm an April '03 nation with 3.5 billion citizens and I don't even have an 8.6 million man army.

However, it is likely that there are discrepancies, due to future space tech and modern tech. ( Although I am not necessary opposing what you state. )

(OOC)- I can only post a short blurb right now.

IC- Pushka I pledge my support to you in this problem (please note I have not read the entire thread yet). Any nation against Pushka is recommended to back down unless the threat it valid.

((POST more later).

The Facists must die!

From what I read, 50 protesters were slaughtered after the police tried to break up the protest. According to Pusha, only three police officers died. To say that the protesters acted out of aggresion is a plausible statement, but the facts as presented by Pushka himself seem to slant in favor of my interpretation. As for "expressing their beliefs," they were protesting. He included no information on what they did, so I have to assume innocence until guilt is proven. As for the Western mistake of assuming my beliefs and morals are superior, well, apparently they are. While the West enjoys liberty, equality, and economic success, the rest of the world (for the most part) stagnates in despotism, civil war, and terrorism. As for my actions being imperialistic, yes I am iunfluencing his nation. However, imperialism is defined as "one nation influencing another for military, economic, or terrirtorial benefit." I gain none of those things from this war. I gain only a clean conscience. Sacrifice thousands of his citizens? Perhaps. But I can assure you, their sacrifice will not be in vain. If I can bring liberty and freedom to Pushka, their death, as well as the deaths of my soldiers, will have a meaning.

My people are not dying for your idea of liberty they are dying against that idea, they are dying protecting their land from you, from an imperialist who thinks that his way is the best and tries to unjustly force other gov't to obey his ways. But fear not, i have enough allies to break you, and even if i did not you went into combat and your tactics are flawed, i already have a plan to disintegrate your armed forces. Plus i have an advantage in numbers at this point, plus i have an ally with 3 billion in population. Tell your men to surrender their weapons and i will send them to your country unharmed.

My people are not dying for your idea of liberty they are dying against that idea, they are dying protecting their land from you, from an imperialist who thinks that his way is the best and tries to unjustly force other gov't to obey his ways. But fear not, i have enough allies to break you, and even if i did not you went into combat and your tactics are flawed, i already have a plan to disintegrate your armed forces. Plus i have an advantage in numbers at this point, plus i have an ally with 3 billion in population. Tell your men to surrender their weapons and i will send them to your country unharmed.

Have you yet realized that I haven't called in any of my allies? I do not wish to boast, but I have my regional allies, who can field a combined force of approximately 85 million troops. After that, there is the League of Small Nations, with whom I am an aliied non-member. Following that, you get to face the Ottoman Alliance.

OOC: sorry for the short post. I'll do something longer in couple hours when I get my creative juices flowing.

Have you yet realized that I haven't called in any of my allies? I do not wish to boast, but I have my regional allies, who can field a combined force of approximately 85 million troops. After that, there is the League of Small Nations, with whom I am an aliied non-member. Following that, you get to face the Ottoman Alliance.

OOC: sorry for the short post. I'll do something longer in couple hours when I get my creative juices flowing.

Do not threaten me, decision of my people is not to give into your demands and that is what my nation shall do. We shall not be forced to abide by laws of your nation. You disrespect our sovereignty, you bring unjust war to our door step and you will be punished for it. You should finally realize, WE SHALL NOT GIVE IN!!!!!

OOC: Firstly, don't mix space tech with modern tech. It causes massive headaches when RPing. Secondly, if a small nation has 8 million soldiers you can bet that they're not well trained, not well armed, not well defended and without much heavy support. A small professional armed forces can easily destroy them. Besides, you do not NEED 8 million soldiers. What on earth are you going to DO with all of them? Have 8/10ths of them sitting around drawing pay and twiddling their thumbs whilst the rest are on active duty? Please don't make the mistake of thinking an army is as good as its numbers. In this day and age that's rubbish.

OOC: Firstly, don't mix space tech with modern tech. It causes massive headaches when RPing. Secondly, if a small nation has 8 million soldiers you can bet that they're not well trained, not well armed, not well defended and without much heavy support. A small professional armed forces can easily destroy them. Besides, you do not NEED 8 million soldiers. What on earth are you going to DO with all of them? Have 8/10ths of them sitting around drawing pay and twiddling their thumbs whilst the rest are on active duty? Please don't make the mistake of thinking an army is as good as its numbers. In this day and age that's rubbish.

OOC: Then did i say that i have 8 million soldiers? Well i have 14 million in population, my actual army force is 840000 thats 15 thousand in air force and the rest in two armies. The rest is volunteer units who are poorly trained (well to a degree because everyone older then 20 was at the army at some point in their life, we use draft) but hell thats how USSR beat the Germans, Russia's professional army was wiped out in two weeks, the people who waved Soviet flag above Reinshtag were enlisted during the war, they were farmers, peasants, factory workers. Small professional armed forces can easily destroy 8 millon you say? Hmm, last time i checked no matter how professional you are you can' dodge bullets. Anyways i don't have 8 million, if take into consideration volunteer units most of who are armed with AK-74s, well my army is somethere around 6 million.

OOC: I seem to remember that the turning point in the battle for Russia was when Winter hit hard and the German troops were ill-prepared and not trained for combat in those conditions. Before that they were cutting through Russia like a knife through butter. I understand that in times of war on home soil you'd conscript every man and his dog, I'm just talking generally. Some of the armies listed here are ludicrous, especially for some of the invasion forces.

OOC: I seem to remember that the turning point in the battle for Russia was when Winter hit hard and the German troops were ill-prepared and not trained for combat in those conditions. Before that they were cutting through Russia like a knife through butter. I understand that in times of war on home soil you'd conscript every man and his dog, I'm just talking generally. Some of the armies listed here are ludicrous, especially for some of the invasion forces.

OOC: Ah, Germans started retreating since 1942, and they were basically were being beat back through the other 3 years of war, summer and winter. The reason we were beaten in first year of war is because Stalin disarmed most of Russian armed forces along the western border, as a part of non-agression pact with Germany. Most of our looses are accounted for in first few weeks of war. Battle for Moscow was the turning point, and it was an actual battle, 250000 German soldiers didn't just freeze to death, they were beaten. As for supplies, well Soviet soldiers had much less of those in first years of war, as for fighting conditions, it gets pretty cold in Germany too, plus Germans were better trained then Soviets. Yet we still won. Moscow was the most decicive battle of the whole war on both eastern and western fronts. Because remember, if not for those 80% of German forces being on Eastern front, other allies would be over run.