NationStates Jolt Archive

Weapons Sales Rep: The Retribution is a new class of submarine that carries the capability of launching significant air strikes on any ground or sea target, it also can be used to suprise your rivals fleet and air forces by the rapid deployment of fighters that can seem to come from nowhere.

Now questions, concerns, orders? Come on guys, old Gil really needs this one

SPECIFICATIONS - BIN Retribution Submarine/Aircraft Carrier
Crew 160
Dimensions:
Length 250 m
Beam 40.3 m
Draught 20 m
displacement Surfaced 23,200 tons
full load submerged 48,000 tons
Propulsion:
nuclear water reactors 2 x 190 MW
steam turbines 2 x 50,000 hp
Turbogenerators 4 x 3,200 kW
diesel generators 2 x 800 kW
Propellers 2 x 7-blade, fixed-pitch, shrouded
Performance:
full run speed Surfaced 12 knots
full run speed Submerged 25 knots
maximum diving depth 400 m
sea endurance 120 days
Weapons:

1 Hangars: Containing 1 squadron of Harriers

Torpedoes: 4 x 630 mm torpedo tubes, 2 x 533 m torpedo tubes, 20 anti-submarine missiles and torpedoes

Electronic equipment: automated radio communication system, satellite communication and navigation system, combat control information system, navigation system

Sensors: surface target acquisition radar, active/passive sonar

Cost:4.0 billion (empty)
7.5 billion (includes cost of Harrier II NICE's)

Fighters are held within hangers under the primary hull of the sub
upon surfacing, heavy hydralic arms swing the top part of the hull
away from the body forming a pair of stablizers. During this operation the sub will sink to 8 feet above sea level and trigger the inflation of Kevlar bags similar to those used in firefighting rescue operations, These balance the craft and keep the planes above water, the Retribution cannot launch fighters in stormy seas. After deployment, heavy grade lifts begin carrying the fighters to the runways, the Retribution may launch one fighter at at a time. All fighters can be deployed within minutes and due to the careful piloting required, recover them within 15.

Also due to the sea conditions, the Harriers have been modified for sea combat and now are the Harrier II NICE (Naval Interception/Combat Edition)

The retribution carries enough supplies to go unsupported for three major sorties, after that fighter fuel and ammunition will run low.

What kind of support is offered for a nation that purchases this monster attack sub/aircraft carrier? The harbour will need to be deep and the mooring will be large as well so I would think the shipbuilder will offer technical supervision in the building of these facilities? How many crew including officers will this need? So many questions, so little time.

The Retribution was designed to be able to dock at any port capable of housing a comparable sized vessel, and for those who require new docking facillites built, a team of specialist engineers will construct the docking facillities for 2 million, 10 million if we have to provide the supplies, or if three or more are purchased Branada will send with them the Maw class floating dock which can house 3 of the subs and can be deployed anywhere 2 kilometers offshore for free. It requires the following crew

Officers:50 (Doesn't include NCO's)
Crewmen:1150 crewmen
Pilots:48 regular 12 reserve
Support crew:4 per plane 192

any other questions?

How many planes in a squadron?

OOC: and this isnt GODMODING how???

There are twelve planes per standard squadron, seventy two per attack wing

OOC: and this isnt GODMODING how???
There are at least two other submerisible aircraft carriers on ns that are well accepted, although they are better presented than this one.

I see no god mod here...

OCC: because the Retibution for one could be developed and functional in real life, everything I have said is physicly possible and I have clearly stated how it works i.e. Hydralics can do that easily. and two, the retribution isn't invisible or invincible, it;s just a very large sub that carries fighters, one retribution could not go toe to toe with a similar sized class and it doesn't carry any uber weapons of death.

There are at least two other submerisible aircraft carriers on ns that are well accepted, although they are better presented than this one.

I see no god mod here...

Sorry I'm still new to this kind of thing, just point out what I'm missing and I'll fix it.

Sorry I'm still new to this kind of thing, just point out what I'm missing and I'll fix it.
The type and amount of engines would be a good start :)

Sorry I'm still new to this kind of thing, just point out what I'm missing and I'll fix it.

OOC: Well, lets just take a look at the largest Submarine currently in the RL world, the SSBN TYPHOON CLASS (TYPE 941):

" Length 172 m
Beam 23.3 m
Draught 11 m

displacement Surfaced 23,200 tons
full load submerged 48,000 tons "

Not even the worlds largest Aircraft carriers are as large as you propose, and for a submarine to do such a thing, especcialy one desgined by such a SMALL YOUNG nation is...just pure stupidity and GODMODE!

Also, something of that size could NOT reach 25knots, the OHIO does that sprt of speed but that is MUCH MUCH smaller!

OOC: Well, lets just take a look at the largest Submarine currently in the RL world, the SSBN TYPHOON CLASS (TYPE 941):

" Length 172 m
Beam 23.3 m
Draught 11 m

displacement Surfaced 23,200 tons
full load submerged 48,000 tons "

Not even the worlds largest Aircraft carriers are as large as you propose, and for a submarine to do such a thing, especcialy one desgined by such a SMALL YOUNG nation is...just pure stupidity and GODMODE!

Also, something of that size could NOT reach 25knots, the OHIO does that sprt of speed but that is MUCH MUCH smaller!


you know nothing, stop say godmod you really are not using the word properly, This is not real life, this is NS, there are vessels 3, even 10 times the size of real life aircraft carriers, there are mobile bases bigger than some islands, as i have already said there are at least 2 other submerisble carrires around, one of them carries 120 aircraft this is well within the limits of realism


and he has more population and a better economy than RL USA

This submarine is as large as a really ugly 30-story building. There is pretty much no way it could possibly dock in any normal port, or travel underwater without making so much damn noise that you'd scare the whales away and make your neighbors think you're building an underwater city. Even if you could somehow get this behemoth up to 25 knots, your maneuverability would be absolutely nill, meaning that you could not dodge torpedos launched by other subs.

As is, this is an impossibly large uber-target. Its best use would be as a decoy.

Sure, you could build it. But why would you want to?

I haven't seen other sub/acc's on NS - but when I do, I'll post this same comment.

Have you ever seen a sub on the surface? They roll dramatically with even small ocean swells. The reason is pretty basic to sub design - submarines keel is for steerage only - not for surface balance as the keel design of a surface ship.

If a sub were to be designed with a traditional surface ship keel - it would lose all stealth ability while below the surface (not to mention being difficult to steer).

I'm not a naval designer - but this info is readily available on the internet.

W.

Okay thanks guys give me the weekend and I'll repair my sub, your help is appreciated. :)

I haven't seen other sub/acc's on NS - but when I do, I'll post this same comment.

Have you ever seen a sub on the surface? They roll dramatically with even small ocean swells. The reason is pretty basic to sub design - submarines keel is for steerage only - not for surface balance as the keel design of a surface ship.

If a sub were to be designed with a traditional surface ship keel - it would lose all stealth ability while below the surface (not to mention being difficult to steer).

I'm not a naval designer - but this info is readily available on the internet.

W.
It however maintains Radar and Visual stealth abilites which is still valuable

OOC:
To those who think this is not GODMODING;

I still say this sub is Godmode not only because of how there is so little info written, but mainly because it MAY be possible to build a submarine that could be that size (as everyone is saying) but if it dived to any depth that is of any use then it would be crushed unless it had a VERY large keel and inner and outer shell to protect from crushing that would weigh so much the engines would have to super powerful to even move at a speed to be able to move, especcialy at 25knots.

I have NEVER seen any Subs that carry aircraft on NS, especcialy not 120, and if i did i would NOT RP IT, same goes for other tech people use that I believe couldnt be designed for this area of tech(up to 2015 at current time).

Its not that im moaning about Branada, he did well for his first(i think) piece of military hardware, by that i mean at least he tried, if he was given some help he could do well.

To TPM: What i dont get Phoenix Milita is how normally when something is produced by another nation you seem to critisise, even if its quite possible(you have a right too) but here you arent...i may be suggesting something, maybe not though*wink* :d

To Branada: If you need any help with modifications feel free to ask! i and other nations are sure to help.

Ticonderoga Class Submersibile Aircraft Carrier (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/grunt74/NS1/ticonderoga.jpg)

other view (http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Rifts/Rifts-Earth-Vehicles/United_States/US_CVN-87_Ticonderoga_Carrier-2.gif)

Ticonderoga Class Submersibile Aircraft Carrier (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/grunt74/NS1/ticonderoga.jpg)

other view (http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Rifts/Rifts-Earth-Vehicles/United_States/US_CVN-87_Ticonderoga_Carrier-2.gif)

OOC: Although a very unoriginal name, that submarine does look pretty good, could you post a link to where i could see the specs on it please? before that i cant say what my proper thoughts on it are as a picture does not always mean much, as in this case(that cant be very manoverable)

I cant find the thread and im out of search tires for now (damn 180 second limit)
u should forum search it

it may have been new empire or some s nation i dunno sorry cant rember

the thread on the ticonderago is gone, lost after the forum trimming back then but there is a carrier wthat uses that pic

While not a completely hopeless design, this vessel, as it is, is definately failing to take several important facts into account.

1) Unless you have a stable 8000 ft (2400m) runway, and significant protection against seawater getting in, you shouldn't even be thinking of operating an F-15 or F-22. Land aircraft are designed to a whole different standard compared to naval ones, and just don't work.

2) Knowledge of systems would dictate two things: You can't stick a catapult in there, and there's no way you could launch more than one conventional fighter at a time. Thus, your estimates for launch and recovery times are WAY off. Plus, recovery would be a nightmare, making a regular carrier landing look like a cakewalk.

3) Conventional aircraft are for conventional aircraft carriers. Special ones like this get VTOL and helicopters.

4) Cost is too low. $2.7 billion might get a regular Typhoon class, but this is quite different, and should be at least $4 billion just for the ship.

5) Carrier is way too small for 36 aircraft. 12 might be possible, but not 36.


On the other hand, I do have to commend you for noting the limited sortie capability. Most other submarine carrier designers think they can pull the same number as a conventional carrier, as if space wasn't so limited.

Oh, and for the New Empire's big submersible carrier:
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=372820

Do note, however, that it has about three times the aircraft should, and is not that hydrodynamic, so it'll have problems. The diving depth is also a godmod for an attack sub, let alone a submersible carrier. I mentioned these shortcomings before, but he doesn't seem to listen . . .

Sounds to me like it's time to design a specalist aircraft capable of functioning on this sub, Time for some research. Thank-you everyone who is contributing, I really appreciate it and it will improve any other stuff I make. I have just one request, no more screaming godmode!!!!, man it's not like I'm trying to make it invincible I just want to make a tacticly souund sub that would be a cool addition to a fleet ok, it's my 1st time and it's slowly improving with the suggestions, it's a work in progress. Now the new mod is out check it out

Sounds to me like it's time to design a specalist aircraft capable of functioning on this sub, Time for some research. Thank-you everyone who is contributing, I really appreciate it and it will improve any other stuff I make. I have just one request, no more screaming godmode!!!!, man it's not like I'm trying to make it invincible I just want to make a tacticly souund sub that would be a cool addition to a fleet ok, it's my 1st time and it's slowly improving with the suggestions, it's a work in progress. Now the new mod is out check it out

OOC: Sorry, i over react a lot. Although i still wont RP subs such as that, purely because i do not think it possible, although i probably am on my own there...

OOC: Sorry, i over react a lot. Although i still wont RP subs such as that, purely because i do not think it possible, although i probably am on my own there...

Well okay, it is possible with the VTOL's, I just get annoyed after someone trys to keep pushing the GodMode without giving any suggestions

Its possible with VTOLs as well as regular carrier borne aircraft. Although ES/VTOL aircraft would make things easier

What does ES/VTOL mean? well I know what VTOL means but what is ES?, and is my sub now satisfactory to everyone? Does it make sense?

*Bump* Buy me now!

Extremely Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing

Extremely Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing
Technically, that would be ESTOVL

ES/VTOL = Extremely Short or Vertical Take-Off and Landing.

It's a subtle difference, but it means that an ESTOVL can't take off vertically, while ES/VOTL can.

By ES/VTOL I meant ESTOVL\VTOL ( ESTOVL OR VTOL)

Well thanks a lot guys I think the retribution is ready, in fact several have been commited to battle in a field test, thanks again!