NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: Previous alliance information that was located here has been removed. This alliance is now defunct. See the last pages of this thread for details. Mods are free to delete this thread.

The Empire of Xeraph would be honored to form an alliance with the United Empire of Colerica. If you wish, we have a splendid embassy waiting for you in our capitol of Xeraphia, approx 23,000 square feet of the most beautiful granite and marble building to be seen in Xeraph (excepting the Emperor's Palace, of course.)
This is provided to you at no cost, and in addition you would have your own airstrip and HeloPad.
Your staff of 100 and security forces of 50 will be very comfortable here.
If you like, we can beam your people here....let me know which you prefer.

respectfully,

Prince Vlad of the Grey Phoenix, in the Name of the Emperor

I would love to be an allie with you, would you want to exchange embassys also if it is possible.

The Empire of Xeraph would be honored to form an alliance with the United Empire of Colerica. If you wish, we have a splendid embassy waiting for you in our capitol of Xeraphia, approx 23,000 square feet of the most beautiful granite and marble building to be seen in Xeraph (excepting the Emperor's Palace, of course.)
This is provided to you at no cost, and in addition you would have your own airstrip and HeloPad.
Your staff of 100 and security forces of 50 will be very comfortable here.
If you like, we can beam your people here....let me know which you prefer.

respectfully,

Prince Vlad of the Grey Phoenix, in the Name of the Emperor

The United Empire of Colerica warmly thanks the Empire of Xeraph for their embassy offer and, of course, agrees to an exchange of embassies. The construction of your embassy within the United Empire shall begin immediately.

Regards,

Kircer Danton
Magistrate of Foreign Affairs

Kressi Thra
Magistrate of State

Maderic Thra
Emperor

I would love to be an allie with you, would you want to exchange embassys also if it is possible.

The United Empire agrees to exchange embassies with your nation. To clarify, we ask: you are willing to join the Imperial Confederacy?

OOC: Are you an empire?

Official Imperial Response:

We would be honoured to join this healthy alliance. I do however have a suggestion. This embassy exchange will help to strengthen the ties that all natiosn have with eachother. I suggest that all nations are required or at least suggested to have an embassy within one another.

Official Imperial Response:

We would be honoured to join this healthy alliance. I do however have a suggestion. This embassy exchange will help to strengthen the ties that all natiosn have with eachother. I suggest that all nations are required or at least suggested to have an embassy within one another.

The United Empire agrees that nations involved in the alliance should be required/encouraged to have embassies with all other nations involved.

OOC: Am I in? And I suggest making a list of members on the first post.

The Communist Empire of Avios is intrigued at this notion of an imperial alliance, but will observe for a while longer before applying for membership.

OOC: Of course, you're in....nation list has been created....

IC:

We thank you, Avios, for considering our alliance. If you do decide to join, please state so at any time.

Green Sun is a small and humble nation that can offer little, but offers its support. I will be glad to join this Empire as long as we don't forcefully recruit any nations. If one nation defeats another in an unrelated war and they are recruited thusfully, I will accept that as a non-forced recruitment. May our stars shine bright.

Green Sun is a small and humble nation that can offer little, but offers its support. I will be glad to join this Empire as long as we don't forcefully recruit any nations. If one nation defeats another in an unrelated war and they are recruited thusfully, I will accept that as a non-forced recruitment. May our stars shine bright.

The United Empire warmly welcomes Green Sun into our pact. We agree that the IC should not go out and seek to force any nation into our Confederacy. That is not how we operate. While we are all empires by nature, that doesn't mean we should force anyone into this pact. If the nation is conquered, then forcing them into the IC could be considered a spoil of war. Other than that, however, joining the Imperial Confederacy is completely voluntarily.

Ronius Vigilantes values all its allies greatly, and would treasure the chance to make Colerica one of them.

OOC: *contemplates invading and annexing Green Sun* (not seriously)

I have one question, do we have to join a region? I joined a new one not twenty minutes ago and I would feel rather guilty changing from one region to another so soon.

Bump

I also will not be changing regions, so I assume this alliance does not require it.

I have one question, do we have to join a region? I joined a new one not twenty minutes ago and I would feel rather guilty changing from one region to another so soon.

Changing to a new region is unnecessary. Stick with the one you're in.

Ronius Vigilantes, welcome aboard. We look forward to a long, healthy alliance that will be prosperous and helpful to both of our great nations.

All nations in this empire:
There is a small incident involving three shoppers in Green Sun. I ask for any aid you can supply.
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7652676#post7652676

All nations in this empire:
There is a small incident involving three shoppers in Green Sun. I ask for any aid you can supply.
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7652676#post7652676

That seems like somewhat of an internal matter, unless you are a protectorate of a larger nation.

But it's a call to other nations for help.

All nations in this empire:
There is a small incident involving three shoppers in Green Sun. I ask for any aid you can supply.
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7652676#post7652676

While we normally wouldn't take part in such minor internal problems, the United Empire shall look into it via the Colerican Imperial Intelligence Agency as a show of good faith to our new found ally. Keep in mind that this alliance is primarly for inner-alliance commerce and military aid.

Well, with the new evidence found, military aid may be needed. Thank you for aiding me.

I request entry to this alliance, and if so, I have a large space in Aredeth, Comatica, waiting to be developed by embassies.

If you accept me into this alliance, I am afraid that I may need your assistance at once. But I assure you: after this conflict is over, I will not immediately request leave of this alliance. I will provide more information if I am accepted.

Green Sun cannot give you immediate and direct assistance in your war, but I can offer you secret plans.
<<
>>

Green Sun cannot give you immediate and direct assistance in your war, but I can offer you secret plans.
<<
>>

*Secret plans are good.

We do not expect everybody to give me direct assistance, but thank you indeed for your offer.

The Commonwealth of Azazia remains intrigued by the proposal. While the Commonwealth maintains a strict policy of neutrality in armed conflict, we do see the need for expanding commercial ties with other large states. My government would be most interested in hearing any further details there would be available about military assistance to members during war and about trade agreements.

Minister of Foreign Affairs
Ivan Valovich

I request entry to this alliance, and if so, I have a large space in Aredeth, Comatica, waiting to be developed by embassies.

If you accept me into this alliance, I am afraid that I may need your assistance at once. But I assure you: after this conflict is over, I will not immediately request leave of this alliance. I will provide more information if I am accepted.

What is the nature of your present conflict?

I request entry to this alliance, and if so, I have a large space in Aredeth, Comatica, waiting to be developed by embassies.

If you accept me into this alliance, I am afraid that I may need your assistance at once. But I assure you: after this conflict is over, I will not immediately request leave of this alliance. I will provide more information if I am accepted.

Welcome aboard, PDC. What is the nature of this conflict that faces you? We request details before we shall take any action.

Avios, have you come to a decision yet? While we're not pressuring you to hurry up and decide, it would be nice to know what your status is with the Imperial Confederacy.

Azazia, the nature of the Imperial Confederacy is for nations of our sort to form a pact together that will insure strong diplomatic ties between all nations involved. Incase of war or armed conflict, an IC nation may request military aid from the other members of the Confederacy. If the reasons for their request are valid, the IC calls on its members to intervene and take action. In peacetime -- as we would prefer to remain in for as long as possible -- the alliance acts to better one another's economies. For example, IC nation's with storefronts can give generous discounts to their fellow IC brethren.

What is the nature of your present conflict?

Well...It was my fault to begin with, but the opposition has ordered me to disband my execution of war criminals, of MY nation to begin with, who have comitted severe treason and fought the government in ways of hostile acts. He does not beleive this is fair, and has refused to stand down. I have given him one last ultimatum: I will let half of these criminals go in exchange for an apology and for him to stand down. I am awaiting his response. If he does not stand down, I have thouroughly warned him that it will be war, for he has threatened me militarily many times.

So it may or may not happen. I will supply the link in a few minutes.

If you supply aid to the case of the mysterious collapses in my nation, I will try to diplomaticly resolve this problem.

BTW: Are you an UN member?

Largent will join.

Here: Da Link (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=377310)

If you supply aid to the case of the mysterious collapses in my nation, I will try to diplomaticly resolve this problem.

BTW: Are you an UN member?

Who me? No, I'm not part of the UN.

Avios, have you come to a decision yet? While we're not pressuring you to hurry up and decide, it would be nice to know what your status is with the Imperial Confederacy.

The issue is still being debated in the Avioan Senate. Currently, it appears a slight majority favor joining the alliance. The most common gripe, however, is that this alliance is for empires of any political, economic, and religious affiliation. Avios has a propensity to favor relations with pro-social governments with planned economies.

If that's the case, then they can do whatever they want...It's not Genocide...I'll help however I can.

If that's the case, then they can do whatever they want...It's not Genocide...I'll help however I can.

Who's "they"?

The Commonwealth is interested in the idea of the organization, but our contention is that the Azazian constitution forbids tieing national foreign policy decisions of military matters, i.e. war and armed conflict, into international organizations. My government belives that the Commonwealth has much to offer the empires in the Imperial Confederacy, and we could gain a great deal from these nations. We would like to petition for admission, but merely as an economic and commercial partner as any military alliance would run against our national constitution.

Of course, we are open to any discussion of these policies should any government in the Imperial Confederacy or Colerica express concerns over such an arrangement.

Ivan Valovich
Minister of Foreign Affairs

The Empire of the Preatorian Order wishes to join this alliance of Empires.
Our capital Solace in the region of IRSAMistan can welcome any new embassies.
You will notice our high efficiency in transportation and communications and our Armed Forces are the best trained of the region.
The Empire is here to stay and shall flourish.

Emperor Noboe Kuri

Premier Pelican of Avios has sent a message to the leader of Colerica.

“The debate in the Avioan Senate has taken a sudden and sharp turn towards refusing to join the alliance. After word came in that a new member of the alliance, Present Day Comatica, was engaged in the execution of political prisoners, opinion quickly shifted. There may still be a way that Avios will join your alliance. You, and the other member states of the noble Imperial Confederacy, should apply pressure on your fellow state to release these political prisoners and cease “selling” them to rogue governments. Please reply soon, comrade. Time is of the essence. Should one prisoner be executed, I fear relations with Avios and the Imperial Confederacy will rapidly deteriorate.”

"Green sun replies to Avios with the fact the prisoners ARE POW's AND Communist rebels. This means they are a danger to all societies and therefore must be punished for their acts. We consider those sold lucky. Green Sun does not officially recognize the acts that are being commited within his nation, so Avios should, as well."

Communists are not all rebels. In fact, in my country, the capitalists are rebels, but they just vote for their affiliation like everyone else does. Execution solely because these men are communists is a travesty.

Not all Commies ARE rebels, yes, but there are many of them and these commies are rebels, therefore, a danger to society.

I could consider you a danger to society – a nation of seven million aggravating a nation of 1.8 billion.

The Commonwealth of Azazia should point out that the fundamental guiding principle of our empire is that of an imperial democracy practicing a mixture of socialism and market economics.

Our society allows for dissent, and while Communists may be among them for their espousal of violent revolution to create a communist state, we recognize that such individuals, until they commit the act are merely citizens of our empire. As citizens they can provide a public service while formulating their ideals, and then should they commit a crime, they can provide public service as punishment. Our empire uses criminals of convicted of certain agregious crimes as cheap labour to construct public works, such as infrastructure and civic buildings.

Your Communist prisoners are worth far more alive than dead.

The Commonwealth will stand with Avios in advocating the stay of execution. Not for the release of criminals and traitors, but merely for their continued existence as public servants.

Ivan Valovich
Minister of Foreign Affairs

The issue is still being debated in the Avioan Senate. Currently, it appears a slight majority favor joining the alliance. The most common gripe, however, is that this alliance is for empires of any political, economic, and religious affiliation. Avios has a propensity to favor relations with pro-social governments with planned economies.

That remains a cutting problem to the United Empire. We are a far-Right nation, but we're welcoming any empire into the Imperial Confederacy.

Premier Pelican:

While we do not wish to see relations between your nation and the Imperial Confederacy collapse, Premier, we will not take a strong stance against our members as this is a Confederacy -- a loose-knit organization of empires acting on their own. We do not believe in forcing our will over the other members of the alliance. While we may or may not condone the actions that the government of Present Day Comatica has taken in regards to the execution and sales of prisoners, we will not take a firm stance against them nor shall we force them to leave the Imperial Confederacy. We are sorry if this is not the news you wish to hear, but it is our decision.

Regards,

Kircer Danton
Magistrate of Foreign Affairs

Avios is slightly disappointed, but understanding. There is still a chance we may join the confederation, if we can gain diplomatically and economically from being a member. This does not mean, however, that action may not be taken against Present Day Comatica outside of the Imperial Confederation. Furthermore, Avios would like to thank Azazia, whatever their economic affiliation, for offering some moderation.

Avios is slightly disappointed, but understanding. There is still a chance we may join the confederation, if we can gain diplomatically and economically from being a member. This does not mean, however, that action may not be taken against Present Day Comatica outside of the Imperial Confederation. Furthermore, Avios would like to thank Azazia, whatever their economic affiliation, for offering some moderation.

After some slight deliberation, the United Empire has reversed its decision. While we're certainly not going to come to the aide of communists, we condemn Present Day Comatica for their actions and demand that they reach a peaceful settlement immediately or grievous consequences may result. We apologize for the confusion of our dramatically changed decision, but we feel that this better suits the situation at hand.

Kircer Danton
Magistrate of Foriegn Affairs

I think we should create a region where we can have "colonies" of our nations so that we have somewhere to meet.

Kircer Danton;

The Commonwealth most sincerely appreciates the efforts of the United Empire in attempting to bring about a peaceful settlement despite national policies and ideologies. We are most grateful to all nations that attempt to secure peace in protentially explosive situations that demand the utmost in courage and honor to stand for what is right. And we thank the United Empire for their courage in condemning Present Day Comatica for its treatment of its prisoners.

Ivan Valovich
Minister of Foreign Affairs

I think we should create a region where we can have "colonies" of our nations so that we have somewhere to meet.

I'd prefer not to, actually. I don't think it's really necessary nor do I want to leave my own region.....

This sudden turn of events has caused yet another dramatic change in opinion in the Avioan Senate. Politicians are being accused of being called flip-flops left and right. Indeed, some have gone from complete support to complete refusal back to complete support. It has yet to be seen if actually wearing flip-flops to the next meeting of the Senate will save their political careers by showing their humorous sides.

The main priority is assuring that blood is not spilt so a rogue regime will gain political influence.

Even if Avios ultimately refuses to join the confederation, its government is still very open to diplomatic, economic, and ambassadorial exchanges with Colerica.

The Empire cannot support a communist entry in this alliance.
The Emperor has expressed deep concerns that communists would destabilize order in our humble realm.
Our people are free to have an opinion, as long as it does not endanger order and stability.

The Empire cannot support a communist entry in this alliance.
The Emperor has expressed deep concerns that communists would destabilize order in our humble realm.
Our people are free to have an opinion, as long as it does not endanger order and stability.

It would go against our oath to the Right-Wing Collective to befriend a communist nation. Thusly, we're agnozing over this decision, and frankly, this entire alliance. The United Empire is considering disbanding the current Imperial Confederacy and replacing it with an alliance with stricter guidelines for admission.

The Emperor has expressed deep concerns that communists would destabilize order in our humble realm.

Communism has remained a stable force in Avios from its foundation all the way up to today with its present population of 1.8 billion. Avios has never had a blood revolution or rebellion and as of yet has only been involved in one aggressive military campaign on foreign soil, and that was for the liberation of a fledging nation.

Green Sun's goverment grows weary of this situation. How the nation treats its rebels is completely up to him. Keeping the rebels withing his nation is not a good idea. If they escape from their holdings, they will cause more chaos in the nation. Execution may not be the best way to handle it, but it is effective in discouraging more to rebel. If they should try to gain control, they should do it within legal an political limits.

Colerica, by colonies, I mean new created nations. So you wouldn't have to leave your region. Make another country to do it. Not a necessity, but a convenience.

While the Commonwealth fully recognizes the sovereign right of any nation to disallow communism, we also find it important to note the important role a communist uprising played in our history. Previous to the aforementioned uprising, the nation was entirely a state concerned with big business. This allowed the people to suffer per the demands of a market economy as well as created competition among the individual republics and states in the former Empire. Ultimately defeated, the Communist ideals of brotherhood and equality for the worker became part of our collective culture. And so while still a state driven by market forces, we now recognize our duty to the working classes as well as have created the new Commonwealth that in the name of brotherhood has become more centralized to better provide for those people.

As unusual as it is, the United Empire is withdrawing from its own alliance. While we still wish to remain allies with all nations currently involved, we cannot compromise our core ideals. We will be issuing a new Imperial Confederacy later on which has stricter guidelines for admission and acceptance. We apologize to all involved.

Kircer Danton
Magistrate of Foreign Affairs

As for the Avios situation:

Ronius Vigilantes is, as our UN class shows, die-hard liberal. But as long as the communist nation doesn't make life bad for its people, I think that there really shouldn't be a problem with it. Yes, some of the founding nation's morals are against it, but I believe a union of communism, socialism, and democracy would make our alliance more diverse, better at making decisions, and more powerful.

Please, Colerica, don't go. You are the leader of this. Without you, it surely will fall apart.

Please, Colerica, don't go. You are the leader of this. Without you, it surely will fall apart.

I shall restructure this alliance and reshape it into something that better fits my original intentions.

In Colerica's absence, I will assume the role of temporary leader (if there are no objections).

To Green Sun, we posit that by executing en masse one group of people united by either ideology, race, creed, etc. that you risk creating a group of martyrs that down the line will become a rallying point for those disgusted with the current group in power. So while revolution and violence is reprehensible when committed by the rebels, and while revenge sweetly coated as justice seems most palatable, it may be the most long-term inefficient means of dealing with a problem. For any serious uprising or revolution is more often than not stemming from a systemic problem within the larger society and by merely delaying conclusive and decisive action on that problem it merely festers as an infected wound, a wound that may ultimately lead to the death of the collective body.

I say nay. Perhaps we should form a council of all the nations and vote on issues. But if there are none who agree with me, I say yay.

I have rested my case on the subject of the Communist Rebels. I have no prejuce against Communism, only rebellions.

In Colerica's absence, I will assume the role of temporary leader (if there are no objections).

Agreed. I only hope you serve the alliance well.

The Empire used to be a crumbling republic, but our Emperor Kuri has managed to restore oder and has banned communism from the Empire.
Communists do not value the state in our Empire, they value the collective. The Empire must go forward, even if it will harm some of its loyal citizens - such is the price to greatness!

As of decree 10089 of the Imperial Council, no communist shall rest, live or foster in the Preatorian Order, and no engagement shall be allowed with another Communist Nation.

However, decree 10093 of the Imperial Council ordered the Imperial Foreign Secretary to allow diplomatic conversations with other communist states, if they approached us - but no more.

Long live the Empire!

Foreign Secretary Vercigenetix

Green Sun, though there are none who agree with you yet, I believe it is your right to disagree.

However, for the sake of having someone to give us guidance, I believe a leader is a necessity, whether or not that leader is me. However, with the endorsement of the outgoing leader, it seems logical that the leader should be me. Besides, for the moment, it's temporary anyway.

As for the Avios situation:

Ronius Vigilantes is, as our UN class shows, die-hard liberal. But as long as the communist nation doesn't make life bad for its people, I think that there really shouldn't be a problem with it. Yes, some of the founding nation's morals are against it, but I believe a union of communism, socialism, and democracy would make our alliance more diverse, better at making decisions, and more powerful.

I find there to be a fundamental error in your statement, if I have interpretted it correctly - which may not be the case. Your belief that a union of communism, socialism, and democracy would make the alliance more diverse seems out of step with the true aims of any communist or socialist state. The true states that follow such economic principles have as a key principle the whole of the nation governing themselves through a democracy. The difference happens to be in the means of the state's ascension to an equal democracy. Communists believe in violent overthrow, while socialists belive in using existing democratic institutions to promote an equal democracy.

As such, I would find it more important to bring together a loose affiliation of countries abiding by market economics and planned economics for the commercial and trading aspect of the Confederacy. As for the military aspect, while the Commonwealth remains firmly opposed to joining if required to pledge military support, we would also point out that more often than not military command structures depend less on domestic policies and more on training and discipline. The more well trained, the more capable of fitting in and assisting others.

That at least is the opinion of the Commonwealth.

Ivan Valovich
Minister of Foreign Affairs

True, but how can you convince me you're the one for the job? You just up an said it. This proves nothing to me you're a compentent leader, not saying you're not.

I'm not saying I'm the best (though Colerica recomended it), but I was the first. Based on your statements, I will take action thusly:

Any current member is urged to state their choice for leader of what we shall temporarily name the Multinational Allegiance (name to be redecided later). Please do not choose yourself.

I have no opposition to you. The others seem to be rather biased with their own ideas. I am only against open rebellion that can cause innocent people harm.
((OOC: Peas, I'm out.))

Communists believe in violent overthrow, while socialists belive in using existing democratic institutions to promote an equal democracy.

That is one of the many definitions that have sprung up to attempt to separate communism from socialism. In reality, there is no universally accepted definition that sets the two apart. Avios generally does not support bloody revolution, so under those definitions we are socialist. However, we go much farther than most definitions of socialism in terms of our economic system. In that respect, we are communists.

Furthermore, communists can be either liberal or conservative. How did the Soviet Union have both a reformist and a hard-liner party if all communists were conservative? Generally, they are always considered left-wing with regards to economics, but military and diplomacy are entirely different spheres.

To Azazia:

Your general interpretation of my statement was the right idea, however I meant it to be applied to decision-making process. I believe that looking at an issue from more than one point-of-view is helpful in making the best decision. And for the reccord, the idea of communism being supportive of violent overthrow is downright false.

For economic purposes, I believe that a simple free trade agreement is all we need.

Militarily, an allied army consisting of a set portion (not number of troops, but percentage) of all of our armies would be my idea. It would be used only at the consent of ALL member nations, however, if one nation didn't want to, they could choose to withdraw their army but lose the option of our military support for a year (NS year).

These are my views. If you have objections, feel free to voice them, and they will be considered.

Continued discussion will take place tomorow. I will start the thread. It will be named "Multinational Alliance". Feel free to continue talking, but my I will say no more till tomorow (approximately 6:00 PM Eastern US).

***Imperial Decree 2009***

It is ordered hereby that the Empire of the Preatorian Order will depart immediately the defunct alliance.
The Empire believes there needs an alliance of Empires, but only of Empires, and not communist states, or people's republic, etc, etc...


Emperor Kuri wishes best of luck

***End of Imperial Decree 2009***

Avios is still very willing to make new allies, but not any that outright ban communists from their countries. We hereby join the alliance, despite its current instability. Avios would support either Ronius Vigilantes or Azazia as the alliance leader, as they appear to be the most centrally-oriented.

ooc: sadly I have not the time tonight, or for a while as my final critiques begin to start, to discuss political philosophy, though such debates would be welcome. but briefly, i do agree with avios that there are no clear set definition of either socialism or communism hence the too frequent clashes evident on these boards between greatly differing political philosophies that are nominally the same. Although my interpretations of the texts, especially that of Marx's manifesto leads me to believe the marxist communist idea is that the current institutions, at least those of 1848 were insufficient to bring about communisty societies peacefully as advocated by the socialist of the time and thus needed a foreful revolution; perhaps i misspoke in them being necessarily violent as there could easily be a peaceful revolution as witnessed in georgia recently, but more than likely - especially as evident in the revolutions of '48 - that is not entirely likely. but i digress.

ic: The Commonwealth would be willing to join a loose alliance of empires for the explicit purpose of promoting and increasing trade and peace throughout our presumably inherent large civilian populations. We would make clear upon signing though that we would not be able to join any military alliance and thus recognize forfeiture of any military assistance. This would not necessarily preclude development or commercial transactions of military hardware or technology but merely the actions of Azazian troops on foreign soil in a foreign instigated war.

Ivan Valovich
Minister of Foreign Affairs

Official Imperial Statement:

This alliance was not stable when it's leader was here, but when the leader left it fell to pieces. When I look at the candidates for leader, and the views of some nations, I can not bring myself to take it. It is with no remorse that the empire hereby withdraws from this defunct alliance.

A quote from emperor Bhalk-
"Its just not what it was supposed to be."

OOC: Borman, you're entirely correct.....which is why I implore you to join the new IC:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=379994

bump

Why did you bump this, Xeraph? Bump the NEW Imperial Confederacy thread, not this old crappy one.....