NationStates Jolt Archive

The bureaucrats and diplomats of the USSS find themselves in the unusual position of urging sanity on a situation quickly growing mad.

Most of you have by this time seen that the nation of Automagfreek is constructing an enormous alliance with unprecedented military power in order to absolutely annihilate a number of countries whom AMF claims has "wronged" them. A further review of the situation, however, shows that the so-called act of war instigated by The Macabees was nothing of the sort, and anyone who believes in some semblance of international law should tremble with fear at what is happening.

A rogue captain in the Macabeean navy seized control of a submarine and, specifically without orders from The Macabees or any other government, attacked a ship hailing from AMF. Let us see what The Macabees had to say on the subject:

Official Message of the Macabee Empire Concerning Recent Attacks

We are well aware the the a Freek military navy was subjected from heavy fire, from a Toledo class SSN. We wish to make public the fact that although the news of the rogue submarine was kept in low profile - even from our own officers - private messages to respective governments was given, as proven by CommunistRevisted- deployments to hunt the submarine directly after said messages were sent. Consequently, the Empire's government has suspicions that the attack was made by the rogue submarine.

We do not know how the Freek government will react to this news. However, we do offer payments to the family of the death, payment for whatever was lost, or has to be repaired, and anything else to patch up relationships. Although their will be no way to be sure that it was the rogue submarine, it most probably was - and in our deepest sympathy, we give our apologies.

[signed]Jonathan VI

While damaging to AMF, and certainly an incredible shame, the actions of a single Macabeean captain do not constitute the grounds for declaration of war, much the same that if my brother murdered someone, I would not be throw into jail with him. The Macabees has indeed apologized and bent over backwards to accomodate AMF, and for what? Utter destruction at the hands of a lunatic Damien Dreadfire, the most inhumanly cruel person on this world.

Look, independent nations! Watch how AMF and his allies will take a non-issue and turn it into a mandate for annihilation! Take heed that we are all in danger, in danger from this runaway country and its insane ideals.

Look at all the nations flocking to his banner, impressed by his power! Look and see that AMF, with actions just as these, has inspired hundreds of followers who commit acts of chaos nearly as despicable!

The time has come. AMF has gotten away with enough, and those who follow him have become too cocky. Let the proud, independent nations and alliances of Nationstates stand up and tell them, all of them, that this unprecedented warmongering will not stand. If we do not now, we may never have the chance. If you do not put aside your fear now, you may be forced to live in fear forever.

Today, it is The Macabees. Tomorrow... who knows the whim of the maniac despot Dreadfire? You could be next.

OOC: How about we decide not to let AMF get away with this blatant act of warmongering and, as I see it, an overt power grab. He cannot stand against everyone.

Come on, friends. Do you want to be able to look back upon this day as the turning point, before your country became the Desolated Land Colony of AMF and his cronies?

After the reviewing the enitre situation throughly (OOC: Took me while to read all the relevant threads) we agree completely and whole-heartedly with Skepticism's call for a rational conclusion to this out of control situation.

AMF has gone to war on a shaky premise, being fired upon by a rogue commander is no excuse to bring dozens of nations to war. This isolated incident was obviously just a conveninet pre-text for an attack which has been planned for some time.

OOC: *sigh* As usual Skepticism, you fail to actually read up before opening your mouth. IC ties were confirmed between the sub, The Macabees, and various RWC members. I'm so fucking blue in the face from typing this same kind of response over and over and over and over and over that I'm done. Use your friend the 'Search' button.

EDIT: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=378449

Read up, be merry.

OOC: *sigh* As usual Skepticism, you fail to actually read up before opening your mouth. IC ties were confirmed between the sub, The Macabees, and various RWC members. I'm so fucking blue in the face from typing this same kind of response over and over and over and over and over that I'm done. Use your friend the 'Search' button.

OOC: I *have* read every single thread to which you provided a link in the thread consolidating relevant threads. I see The Macabees announcing that a submarine has gone rogue. May I quote? "He had taken the best crew, or he thought the best crew, to their possible deaths, most likely, just to start, and complete, what the Macabee government was too afraid to do by themselves." I see The Macabees sending his submarines to intercept the rogue one. I see the Macabees apologizing, then preparing his defense, due to fear that you would retaliate.

I have yet to see a single indicator that The Macabees planned or instigated anything except allowing a submarine to go rogue, by accident. Since I have obviously missed it somehow, if you could provide the specific link you have in mind, I'd be greatly appreciated.

Also, I would wonder why not respond IC? Declare war on me, too! Declare war on everyone! You can, along with the 1000 nations who follow you, most of them half-blindly! Why not have your diplomat yell at my diplomats about how stupid they are and provide the evidence to humiliate them? That would not only be more effective, but much better RP...

IC: The USSS continues to away the response of AMF, or some shred of evidence that The Macabees and her allies deliberately attacked Freeken forces.

OOC: As edited in above. http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=378449

Let all see what those of Automagfreek call "justice!

"We believe that The Macabee government knew full well of their sub's movement and is now attempting to save their own skin. We ask that the NWO cooperate fully with Automagfreek authority and NOT interfere, because this matter happened before The Macabees withdrew from the RWC and is none of the NWO's business. "

This, friends, this, is the "evidence" upon which billions will die! The Macabees realized that a disaster had occured, mobilized in order to try and stop the rogue submarine, and then to protect itself against a snap decision by the notoriously fickle Dreadfire. Her allies did the same, knowing the evil of which AMF is capable. The Macabees warned you, Mr. Dreadfire, of this rogue sub, and then apologized and offered to repay for damages done. What more can you want?! You see a genuine accident and wish to live to the next day as a declaration of war! This, from one of the most warlike nations every to exist! "We believe" and circumstantial evidence is enough for you to invade and rape and pillage and murder uncountable thousands?

This is why we must stand together and oppose the building madness. He claims to be just, but heed the words of his ally:

Automagfreek has, in our opinion, every right to be angered at such a situation and while proof may be needed to convince other nations, it certainly isn't needed for Automagfreek to declare war and little we could do could stop them assuming we wanted to. Someone has injured Automagfreek and given their history we can't see how anyone is surprised at this reaction, we feel they have shown restraint concidering the evidence they already have, they have gone to war on less in the past.

No proof. Kill anyway. Another excellent day for Mr. Dreadfire.

Official Statement from The Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

So why didn't the Macabees respond sooner? They apologized right after the submarine was sunk, 1 second. And yet you are defending them? You are presenting circumstancial evidence also. The Island of Rose thinks that this is just part of an agenda you have against Automagfreek. So until you give me 1,000 pounds of documents linking that Automagfreek was wrong, we will stand by him until the end. Good day.
Sergei Ilyanov
President of The Island of Rose
http://img131.exs.cx/img131/825/v8npresidentsergei.jpg

Ah yes, the prats of Skepticism are at it again, twisting, spinning, and taking statements out of context for their own personal agenda against AMF. How...quaint. Perhaps before the nameless diplomat from Skepticism spoke he should have been made fully aware of the entire situation, which clearly he is not. Here are statements made from Lord Dreadfire and myself.



We are investigating the attack upon our fleet, which we are almost certain came from some nation in the RWC. Our intelligence has also noted strange mobilizations from RWC nations, all flocking to the borders of The Macabees within the past 72 hours. The Macabees themselves can be seen mobilizing vast numbers of ground forces and a large contingent of their naval units. Judging from their formations over the last 48 hours, it is our conclusion that the apology issued by The Macabee government is totally bunk.

We have tracked the movements of RWC and Macabee fleets, and they are set in a defensive position to directly oppose any AMF fleet that comes near their territorial waters. If they are innocent, why are they fully mobilized?

We also have an apology from out of nowhere from The Macabee government. This caught us by surprise, because mere moments after the intruding sub was destroyed, we get an apology. It is obvious that the Macabee government knew damn well it was wrong to order that sub into our waters, and now they are backpeddling.

And another.

There is specific evidence linking the attacking sub to The Macabee government, and proof of their attack can further be seen in their response to their sub being destroyed. The Macabees knew they were wrong for attacking, hence why they have taken the recent steps that they have taken. Having raised the wreckage of the craft, we have seen significant damage to not only the entire sub, but the crew as well. Multiple bullet holes in crew members, evidence of fires where there were no explosions, and no remaining maps or documents tells us that this was an ordered suicide mission.

Withdrawing from the RWC, NATO's #1 enemy at the moment, issuing an apology mere moments after their sub is sunk, and mobilizing not only their allies, but their own armed forces and staging them in such a manner that they would stand in the direct path of the Crimmond reinforcements that came under fire.

And a statement from myself.

He pulls out a map with several lines drawn on it. One was a blue line going from Automagfreek to Crimmond.

This was the course that our fleets was on. Their destination: Crimmond.

Drawn ontop of the blue line was a green line, marking the distance the fleet had covered. In an entirely different direction was a red line, headed towards The Macabees.

This red line represents the course our fleet would have to had taken to get to The Macabees. As you can see, our fleets were clearly on course and headed towards Crimmond. Not once did they change course nor were they showing signs of changing course. We also have documents available to the public proving this.

The rules here are real simple: Macabees bit off way fucking more than they could ever chew, and now they are going to pay the price.

As you can clearly see there are numerous and obvious ties here to which Skepticism will gladly remain blind to. No manner of convincing will change their notion that Automagfreek is an evil and imperialistic nation, although it is quite the opposite. The evidence has been presented and the free world sides with AMF. If Skepticism would like to stick their nose in this situation, we will gladly ram it up whatever bodily opening they wish.

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/images/gold/thumb/3401.gif
Minister Hartman
-Minister of Foreign Affairs-

OOC: *sigh* As usual Skepticism, you fail to actually read up before opening your mouth. IC ties were confirmed between the sub, The Macabees, and various RWC members. I'm so fucking blue in the face from typing this same kind of response over and over and over and over and over that I'm done. Use your friend the 'Search' button.

EDIT: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=378449

Read up, be merry.

ooc: Do you really feel obliged to answer to this guy? Like really, who cares?

OOC: Like, heaven forbid Presgreif, that Skepticism actually may want to pursue a political/diplomatic angle here or do a bit of spin. Oh my, let's not let that happen, eh? Let's just all mobilize troops, you know? I mean, that's what everyone else does.

Of course it's up to AMF whether he wants to respond or not, and by extension, pursue this particular rp. I'm getting the feeling that AMF feels a bit like George Bush here.

OOC: Like, heaven forbid Presgreif, that Skepticism actually may want to pursue a political/diplomatic angle here or do a bit of spin. Oh my, let's not let that happen, eh? Let's just all mobilize troops, you know? I mean, that's what everyone else does.

Of course it's up to AMF whether he wants to respond or not, and by extension, pursue this particular rp. I'm getting the feeling that AMF feels a bit like George Bush here.

ooc: Yes, you're very righteous and outspoken. Do I care? Not particularly. And while we're on the topic, why do you feel such a great need to stick your nose in our affairs? If you want to get involved, assume an actual position. Otherwise, sod off.

The USSS can only shake its collective head in sorrow at the actions of AMF and the extreme lengths to which he will go to justify them. Let us see:

The Macabees admitted a submarine had gone rogue, and warned all nations to beware. They knew that the captain of said sub hated AMF, and alerted the world to this fact. So then, when an AMF ship is sunk and one of their submarines captured, they realize what has happened. They go into emergency mode. They know, as does essentially everyone, that Dreadfire's country has a short fuse and has oblitered nations for less. And so they issue an apology, assuming responsibility. They arm their fleets, hoping that a show of force will delay what they feel may be the inevitable AMF response, and ask their allies for help.

They see that something outside their control may bring doom upon their heads, and try to prevent it from happening. This is no crime.

He admits that the submarine belonged to his nation, and that other subs of his were in the area to try and corral the rogue captain. Realizing that AMF may retaliate on a moments notice, he orders them to stand guard. This, too, is no crime.

The fact that the fleet attacked was en route to Crimmond means nothing. A rogue submarine hit whatever he could get. The Macabees tries to cover its ass as much and as fast as possible, knowing that to do less is to risk utter desolation.

None of these are crimes!

Your "proof" is that a Macabean submarine attacked you for no reason, and The Macabees doesn't like you. You ignore that the submarine was not under Macabean government control!

We have never claimed that AMF is imperialistic; nor do we believe so. However we must be terrified that Mr. Dreadfire feels that he can declare war on such shoddy grounds and not only get away with it, but end triumphantly. It should no be so.

Please, friends, look at the evidence, the arguments, cited by each side. Weigh each and see which has more weight. Do this, and we believe wholehearted that you will agree that AMF is overstepping its bounds.

Once again you have proven your accusations against the Excessively Armed Empire to be bunk at best. In your last statement you totally chose to ignore the evidence I provided you with. Let me run through it one final time before I close my ears to you and your blatent attempt to get into a shoving match with Automagfreek.

1. Sub enters AMF waters.
2. Sub fires on AMF ships headed for Crimmond
3. AMF sinks sub
4. Almost a minute later we get an apology from The Macabee government
5. The Macabees and various RWC members begin mobilizing large elements of their ground forces and navy. They are placed in a position as to directly block an AMF route to The Macabees.
6. The Macabee government falls silent, while RWC members are very vocal about their support for The Macabees....wonder why.

The evidence speaks for itself. Believe it or not, it is really not our problem because we are totally in the right. Good day.

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/images/gold/thumb/3401.gif
Minister Hartman
-Minister of Foreign Affairs-

Once again you have proven your accusations against the Excessively Armed Empire to be bunk at best. In your last statement you totally chose to ignore the evidence I provided you with. Let me run through it one final time before I close my ears to you and your blatent attempt to get into a shoving match with Automagfreek.

1. Sub enters AMF waters.
2. Sub fires on AMF ships headed for Crimmond
3. AMF sinks sub
4. Almost a minute later we get an apology from The Macabee government
5. The Macabees and various RWC members begin mobilizing large elements of their ground forces and navy. They are placed in a position as to directly block an AMF route to The Macabees.
6. The Macabee government falls silent, while RWC members are very vocal about their support for The Macabees....wonder why.

The evidence speaks for itself. Believe it or not, it is really not our problem because we are totally in the right. Good day.


The diplomatic corp grows weary of this back-and-forth, but continue vigilantly in order to best expose the lies of AMF and the dark purpose behind them.

1. Yes, indeed, a rogue sub not under the control of the Macabean government entered your waters. The Macabees warned you about this, then apologized.
2. Again, the sub was under the command of a rogue captain acting expressly without the orders of The Macabees. The Macabees apologized for the actions of this man and offered to pay for all damages done.
3. Yes.
4. The Macabees apologized that one of its subs, belonging to The Macabees despite being taken over by a rogue captain, destroyed one of your ships. What a surprise, apologizing for breaking something! Why do you find this such damning evidence? If Mr. Dreadfire's butler kicked him by accident, wouldn't he want an apology?
5. Realizing that AMF may act rashly, RWC forces move to attempt and ensure that at least AMF does not attack immediately, but rather pauses and accepts some explanation.
6. The Macabean government realizes that they are likely doomed anyway, for something they did everything in the world to prevent, and are not at fault for. Their friends stand up for The Macabees and state, as have I, that there is no cause for war.

Saying you are right does not make it so. We realize of course that Mr. Dreadfire rules in a manner erratic and bloodthirsty, and that AMF acts against international law or reason as it chooses to do so. Nonetheless, we hope that if enough see that, again and again, AMF is skating on the thinnest of ice, that sufficient outrage would be conjured to prevent this looming, horrible war.

It is the opinion of the Republic that a full investigation into those responsible, directly and indirectly, for the naval attack on AMF forces, as well as a forum to address said wrongs, real and imagined, would progress with less impediment should it take place in an environment other than one filled with war, threat and mobilization.

The Republic urges for all sides to explore all avenues of diplomacy before embroiling their nations and alliances in a war none can afford to wage.

Automagfreek has, in our opinion, every right to be angered at such a situation and while proof may be needed to convince other nations, it certainly isn't needed for Automagfreek to declare war and little we could do could stop them assuming we wanted to. Someone has injured Automagfreek and given their history we can't see how anyone is surprised at this reaction, we feel they have shown restraint concidering the evidence they already have, they have gone to war on less in the past.

We stand by our quote, even if it was taken out of context it is quite clear to see that this isn't a matter of proving the Macabees guilt to the International community. It was always a matter of Automagfreek simply declaring their intention based on what was clearly enough evidence for them.

Almost every nation willing to help Automagfreek in their actions against a nation they have have marked for revenge understands the circumstances on which Automagfreek is going to war. I will admit that some of them are simply joining in with the fad, but the majority of them understand why Automagfreek is doing this and understand their methods.

Iuthia is not assisting Automagfreek in this war because it isn't our war, it's little of our concern though we do get tired of misinformation. We have noticed the freeks have always been clear on their intentions and have not lied about their methods. So your force feeding your opinion on the world is not required... nations can make their own judgements, and have, based on the avialable information.

Is this war right? Most certainly not... but then again when you piss off a near superpower there is no right or wrong, there is only the inevitability of their reactions. We notice there are ways, not pretty ways, but ways none the less for this war to be avoided. If the Macabees and allies are unwilling to surrender and take responcability for actions which have been linked to them and are willing to fight for their freedom then so be it.

Iuthia officially doesn't mind; we would ask Automagfreek to show mercy, but we know full well that mercy has been waivered by the Macabees and allies by their unwilling to co-operate.

That is our stance.

Foriegn Minister Mick Lakely, Iuthian Diplomatic Corps.

We would like to know where Skepticism's outrage was when AMF was fired upon for no reason. Where was Skepticism's condemnation of such an act? We find it highly laughable that only now are you speaking out, furhter exposing your agenda against us.

I am no one for semantics, and we could go back and forth for a week straight with you twisting and spinning my words every step of the way. You refuse to believe for one second that what we say is true, again further proof of your agenda against Automagfreek.

Automagfreek will not engage any nation that does not stick their noses into our business. This has always been AMF policy since Lord Damien took over, and it always will be. AMF has not and will not engage any county that wishes to remain neutral, and so far Automagfreek has been the one that has had war declared on it. If you have not noticed, not once so far have we issued a declaration of war. Our Blacklist exists merely to provide said nations with once final chance for peace, of which NONE have taken so far.

Where is your condemnation of THAT?

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/images/gold/thumb/3401.gif
Minister Hartman
-Minister of Foreign Affairs-

ooc: Yes, you're very righteous and outspoken. Do I care? Not particularly. And while we're on the topic, why do you feel such a great need to stick your nose in our affairs? If you want to get involved, assume an actual position. Otherwise, sod off.

OOC:

It's an OOC comment in response to yours. Since you are unable to answer directly but rather need to resort to flaming, then that's too bad for you. If Skepticism, the thread starter, has a problem with my post then I shall remove it. Otherwise, tough it out, Presgreif. If you want to send me a telegram to discuss this further, then by all means do so.

And yes, I saw your little pact of "I will try to be a shining example of roleplaying etiquette". Actions speak louder than words.

OOC:

It's an OOC comment in response to yours. Since you are unable to answer directly but rather need to resort to flaming, then that's too bad for you. If Skepticism, the thread starter, has a problem with my post then I shall remove it. Otherwise, tough it out, Presgreif. If you want to send me a telegram to discuss this further, then by all means do so.

And yes, I saw your little pact of "I will try to be a shining example of roleplaying etiquette". Actions speak louder than words.

ooc: Indeed they do. I'm sorry Vrak, my comments were uncalled for and inappropriate. I would like to take back my previous post, and hope that this little exchange of ours will not result in any bad feelings between us. Okay? :)

We would like to know where Skepticism's outrage was when AMF was fired upon for no reason. Where was Skepticism's condemnation of such an act? We find it highly laughable that only now are you speaking out, furhter exposing your agenda against us.

I am no one for semantics, and we could go back and forth for a week straight with you twisting and spinning my words every step of the way. You refuse to believe for one second that what we say is true, again further proof of your agenda against Automagfreek.

Automagfreek will not engage any nation that does not stick their noses into our business. This has always been AMF policy since Lord Damien took over, and it always will be. AMF has not and will not engage any county that wishes to remain neutral, and so far Automagfreek has been the one that has had war declared on it. If you have not noticed, not once so far have we issued a declaration of war. Our Blacklist exists merely to provide said nations with once final chance for peace, of which NONE have taken so far.

Where is your condemnation of THAT?


We respect, and always have, the fact that AMF does not run about randomly destroying countries who have not done anything wrong. That is why we look upon the events of this time and are bewildered. Yes, Damien Dreadfire has a history of erratic policy and cruelty to all humanity, but AMF has generally acted with honor and fairness, at least until their actual invasion began. In this event, however, no willful wrong was inflicted upon your country, as far as anyone can see. The USSS would be quite happy to pay for any damage incurred by your nation, if that meant averting war; this same offer was made by The Macabees.

And, as we all know, AMF does not offer "peace" without a good many long and sharp hooks attached. The fact that many nations have opted to trust their fate in war rather than have your boot on their neck for the forseeable future speaks to just that. And may we point out that this global affair began with the Freekan threats of invasion and destruction aimed at The Macabees and any who supported him. Your putting off of invasion, while commendable, does not mitigate the fact that you have promised it. Further, Dracun Imperium and Zarbia have already come under attack by your allies, suffering despite your "moderation."

You accuse us of twisting the truth; we charge that you only every held on to but a piece of it. Any course of events is better than utter and complete war; upon that we both agree. Why not settle for merely punishing The Macabees, maybe blow up a port or two, sink a bunch of his submarines, impose a fine, something less than utter destruction? Force his country into indentured servitude for a decade, something, anything. We seek only a peaceful solution if one is available, and to avoid the destruction of countries and death of billions if it becomes inevitable.

The nature of your response is bewildering....Automagfreek has made no mention of total war save for one instance, which I believe was against Aust (for mobilizing 2 billion civilians to fight us). Automagfreek only uses total war when neccessary, and only if Macabees decides he's going to step things up a notch, such as hiding in urban areas and using civilians as cover, will we consider total war.

You also confuse 'total war' tactics with our 'Blood Feud' tactics. Blood Feud is only declared in the worst of situations, when Automagfreek becomes wronged to the point where total extermination of the enemy bloodline becomes necessary. This has only happened twice in our entire nation's history. Total war is used by Automagfreek frequently for several reasons which I will talk about shortly. AMF's definition of 'total war' is the engagement of anything and everything that could pose a threat to AMF forces. Civilians are given notice before AMF forces even steam out of port to evacuate any urban areas. But our generosity does not come without conditions. The one condition is that if civilians do not flee potential combat zones, they must not care very much if they die.

All too often have we seen campaigns go sour because of guerrilla tactics. This is something AMF will forever avoid due to our decisive and fierce tactics. Why must we be so brutal? One reason is to end the conflict quickly, possibly forcing an early surrender and avoiding more bloodshed. Another reason is to avert future conflicts. If a nation sees that we are willing to do whatever it takes to win a war, they will be less inclined to move against us for fear of what we will do to them.

As far as The Macabees goes, our level of action is directly relevant to what they do on the battlefield. If their civilians stay out of our way and do not get involved, then they shall live. If this trust is broken but one time, total war will be on. Automagfreek is not an unreasonable country by any stretch of the imagination. We however do NOT tolerate it when our trust and good graces are violated. All it takes is one instance, only one instance....and then you will see awe inspiring bloodshed.

We shall see what The Macabees chooses to do. If our forces feel it is necessary, we will use whatever tactics at our disposal to come out on top.

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/images/gold/thumb/3401.gif
Minister Hartman
-Minister of Foreign Affairs-

If it pleases all, Vastiva would ask a single question.

If Macabees was completely innocent, and had nothing to do with this "rogue submarine" and its attack, why did it mobilize huge numbers before Automagfreek discovered the nature of the submarine?

To put the logic to linear terms, if there was a "rogue submarine", and Macabees had some reason to know its destination, would it not behoove them to put a warning to those nations, particularly when one such target would be Automagfreek?

If a Vastivan captain went rogue, and was even thought to be headed towards another nation, that nation would be informed in some manner. This did not occur here. So too, Macabee's mobilized and gave up its territory in Spain, the latter as "bloodshed was to break out".

Strange words indeed for an innocent nation.

Please, if you would, answer our simple questions. We have need of clarity in this matter.

If it pleases all, Vastiva would ask a single question.

If Macabees was completely innocent, and had nothing to do with this "rogue submarine" and its attack, why did it mobilize huge numbers before Automagfreek discovered the nature of the submarine?

To put the logic to linear terms, if there was a "rogue submarine", and Macabees had some reason to know its destination, would it not behoove them to put a warning to those nations, particularly when one such target would be Automagfreek?

If a Vastivan captain went rogue, and was even thought to be headed towards another nation, that nation would be informed in some manner. This did not occur here. So too, Macabee's mobilized and gave up its territory in Spain, the latter as "bloodshed was to break out".

Strange words indeed for an innocent nation.

Please, if you would, answer our simple questions. We have need of clarity in this matter.

We are happy to address these questions as best we can. First, we would argue that the mobilizations by The Macabees prior to the sinking of the submarine were due to Macabean efforts to track the sub down in the first place. Factor in the fact that Macabean authorities knew that AMF shipping was a likely target, and that AMF could quite possibly make a snap decision and strike against them immediately, or dispatch a vassal to do so (it has happened before, as those older than yourself remember all too well).

I would further point out that the very first notice The Macabees gave of this submarine was in the form of a warning to all nations, which he later modified to specifically include AMF. All anyone knows is that two attacks were made on AMF ships, and one submarine, publically claimed to be under the command of a rogue captain, was annihilated. How AMF even determined that the melted-down hulk that remained belonged to The Macabees we have no idea.

If you believed that your rogue captain was going to sink a couple Skeptic ships, you would not have to worry that our warlord would take offense and devastate your country. Extreme circumstances call for extreme measures.

"This would neither be an easy war for any NATO armies that came to pillage the golden hills of the Macabee nation; it would be hard, difficult, and it would kill the better of their armies."

The Macabean leadership obviously expects that their public accident will lead to invasion; they are resigned to the fact that any who so much as raise a fist against AMF must die, hoping only to do some damage before dying. It should not have to be this way; even if AMF is "generous" enough not to slaughter every civilian, even if some nations are spared by the fickle whims of Lord Dreadfire.

If we believed that by some accident we had angered AMF, you can be damn sure we'd be tooling up for war but fast, too. While many nations stretch diplomacy as far as possible and ten feet more, AMF has a history and reputation of threatening or using military force first, then moving on to diplomacy later, if it becomes necessary. We hope only to reverse the order.

Bluntly, Vastiva states you have little to no knowledge of AMF and how Lord Dreadfire works.

If a Vastivan "rogue sub" intended to blow up something of AMFs - or was even known to be vectored in that direction - our first action would have been to inform AMF of the possibility.

Following elimination of the rogue - a conclusion we have no doubt of - AMF would have full availability of all our records of the event, which would be substantial. Once AMF troops arrived for their inspection, our troops would stand down accordingly. Why?

Because we have no intent to "push" the events, and we know AMFs reactions enough to show they have not yet run over an innocent nation, nor failed to keep their word about what will happen if. In this case, we would ask simple "If your inspection shows our words to be true, we ask for your complete withdrawl".

Why would Vastiva do these things?

Because Vastiva is not stupid.

What did Macabees do? It mobilized more troops! How else could that be taken?

We know AMF to keep their word in all things - as such, we state categorically it is our wish that nations which have infuriated AMF stand down, surrender, and accept a slight beating rather then the total war which will rain down should they not.

It is truly that simple.

Bluntly, Vastiva states you have little to no knowledge of AMF and how Lord Dreadfire works.

If a Vastivan "rogue sub" intended to blow up something of AMFs - or was even known to be vectored in that direction - our first action would have been to inform AMF of the possibility.

Following elimination of the rogue - a conclusion we have no doubt of - AMF would have full availability of all our records of the event, which would be substantial. Once AMF troops arrived for their inspection, our troops would stand down accordingly. Why?

Because we have no intent to "push" the events, and we know AMFs reactions enough to show they have not yet run over an innocent nation, nor failed to keep their word about what will happen if. In this case, we would ask simple "If your inspection shows our words to be true, we ask for your complete withdrawl".

Why would Vastiva do these things?

Because Vastiva is not stupid.

What did Macabees do? It mobilized more troops! How else could that be taken?

We know AMF to keep their word in all things - as such, we state categorically it is our wish that nations which have infuriated AMF stand down, surrender, and accept a slight beating rather then the total war which will rain down should they not.

It is truly that simple.

We give Vastiva all the more credit for being able to hold their calm in the face of unrelenting disaster and take the course that would lead to the least destruction by both sides. However, we must point a few things out:

While you are an ally of AMF, and thus would be shown more leniency for any accidential transgression, The Macabees has been one of his most fervent enemies, and appears to be correct in assuming that AMF would look at their accounts of a "rogue submarine" with suspicion and vengeance.

What's more, your course of action requires cool, fast logic. The Macabees has never shown to possess a surfeit of that ability and instead, as we have said before, panicked and prepared for what they felt to be an imminent invasion.

We wholeheartedly agree that symbolic destruction of military targets or some form of sanctions would be far superior to massive war or utter destruction. Unfortunately such is the reputation of Dreadfire that we are afraid that the nations opposing him will not trust any alternative he offers. Hatred of AMF runs deep in some circles. What's more, most of the nations that have "infuriated" AMF have done nothing to hurt him, only supported their ally and friend.

Punish The Macabees, leave them alone to take the lesson to heart, and end this all. It does not have to come down to the largest coalition in history blasting apart one nation after another. Call back your dogs of war, Mr. Dreadfire.

OOC: tag for another time so i can write some really long posts :)

Mmmm.... it was apparently his original plan to do so.

That Macabees drew others into the conflict to cover cowardice and deceit was entirely their doing.

If not for that, no Vastivan ship or plane or trooper would currently be active.

As for cold logic - Vastiva has always responded in kind, with some knowledge of its foes, and friends. This serves us well. We hope to serve as a formal, living guide of better ways to do things.

Namaste

The nature of your response is bewildering....Automagfreek has made no mention of total war save for one instance, which I believe was against Aust (for mobilizing 2 billion civilians to fight us). Automagfreek only uses total war when neccessary, and only if Macabees decides he's going to step things up a notch, such as hiding in urban areas and using civilians as cover, will we consider total war.

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/images/gold/thumb/3401.gif
[i]Minister Hartman
-Minister of Foreign Affairs-
I balive it was you who said that you where going to use 'A scortched earth polocy' and placed us on your blacklist that pursuaded us to mobalise those men.

Emporer Palpatine

In the opinion of the Free Republic , The Macabees have a long history of starting conflicts, unwarranted attacks and imperialist behaviour. The Macabees have no credibility in their denial of knowledge or complicity in their 'rogue submarines' attack on Automagfreek.

While we often take issue with Automagfreek's 'sledgehammer' reation to such occurrences, we can at least say that it should be expected. It is absolutely incomprehensible that The Macabees would make this attack intentionally or unintentionally and then be suprised by the consequences. It is further incomprehensible that if this was an unintentional attack that it would be preceeded by a military buildup. It is unimaginable that a nation would mobilize it's forces BEFORE an unintentional, unforseen attack.

To sum up, The Macabees lack credibility and Automagfreek, as usual, is responding in their usual manner. None of this is suprising or unexpected from either side.

We prefer to stay out of it. The Macabees need to realize that poking the rottweiler is only fun until you realize the gate is open, so don't be suprised when you are bitten.

Minister of Foreign Affairs, Ilek-Vaad