NationStates Jolt Archive

The Emporer stood in the Grand Hall of the Imperial Palace, 1000 feet above the ground, he looked at the latest message from Damien the Destroyer and then looked an aide in the eye. "So it comes, the Doom of our times. The monster, it comes." He looked almost shcoked, but then he always looked like that, pale and shocked, as though he was about to die , he had looked like that since a Assin had killed his Parents the former emporer and Empress and most of his close familly. He and his brother had survived, sheilded by the blast by his parents bodys.

He had taken his revenge, hunting the assin and his paymasters to the ends of the earth and then he had killed them, in a cave in rookes pass. In one bloody day, 10,000 of his men had died in front of his eyes as he launched attack after attack upon the enermy fortress. The Enermy casultys had been far worse, 100,000 bodys had been counted. And finally they had battled there way into the cave and killed the last of the kings.

In that Epic battle he had lost his ear and his back had been hunched ever since and now he was facing the distruction of his nation. He was only 16.

"A full mobalisation, every man is to be cal;led up, Evacuate the Bambinio corrodor."

"Sire."

ooc: tag in support of Aust.

OOC: Could i ask what exactly you are mobilising for? If its something good i might get Hotdogs2 involved...2bil+pop, i havent ever had a MASSIVE RP....ever! TAG.

Interesting....

OOC: Could i ask what exactly you are mobilising for? If its something good i might get Hotdogs2 involved...2bil+pop, i havent ever had a MASSIVE RP....ever! TAG.

Interesting....

OoC: Aust is preparing for war with AMF, and so am I.

IC:

Emperor Vespasius sends Aust his good luck wishes with fighting AMF. May god have mercy upon the invaders souls.

Erik Solar,
Imperial Councillor,
Minister of Foreign Affairs.

"Very good sir, How many legions do we move to bambinio?"

"234 Aust Troopers legions, 12 ASS legions, 345 reserve legions and 89 tank corps."

"Sire, thats almost half our army."

"I know. How many reserve legions are now raised?"

"123 junior, 700 of ex-servicemen and women."

"How many have served conscription in Aust?"

"Around 3 billion sire."

"And how many are over 40 and in the Citizen Mitile?"

"575 Million sire."

"So 2.425 should be in the Reserves?"

"Sire. We have 2 billion enroled. The rest are in secure positions, civil service ect."

"Okay. Have all 2 billion raised and one 24 hour notice within 3 days. MAke sure all have uniforms. turn the econermy over to full war econermy. Extend conscription from 14 to 28. I want to have more men trained. Evry factory has to be creating wepons. I want every reservist, Mitila man, army trooper, RAF, RAN everyone on 24 hour alert. Every man woman and child in the Bambinio corrodor is to be armed and dug in, each with a bunker. Cancil the Evacuation order,"

"Sire.

A consol beeped behind them, and the Emporer looked at the mesage on the screen. "jesus Christ." It was another message from Damien.

OOC: Modern/post-modern.

~From the desk of Lord Damien the Destroyer, Supreme Warlord of the Excessively Armed Empire of Automagfreek~

Then you have made your decision to stand in the way of the Excessively Armed Empire. Aust has been adjusted from 'pending blacklist' to 'confirmed blacklist'.

It is in this hour that your fate has been sealed. You will be consumed in a lake of hellfire and brimstone as the indomitable war machine of Automagfreek rolls across your country. We will pillage, rape, and burn our way from one end of Aust to another.....but obviously this is of no concern to you although in your weak and frightened heart you know this to be true.

Well guess what, it should be concerned, very concerned. I'll see you soon.......

Sleep Now In The Fire.

http://67.18.37.14/40/9/upload/p984672.jpg
---Damien the Destroyer---
-Supreme Warlord of AMF-

"Send this reply."


Maybe so, Damien, maybe so. But how many men will you lose in the bottleneck? 100 million? 200? we both hsave basicly the same size armed forces, the same equipment and everything.

You know about Aust, about our only route to the sea, which we have now moved 100,000 men into, it's only a 10 mile winde and 100 mile long streach Damien, every day more come. We are digging in preparine, everyday we grow in dtrength and numbers as more reservists legions come into being. And all are being moved there. It's heavly urbanised two, one hug port city. And you have get past both my fleet and airforce too.

You could try a air drop, fly over the pernisular, (And thus void intruding any other nations sovregntie, but Austian Emporers are not known as The Lord of Air for nothing. Is your airforce and navy strong enough?

it is said that you need a 3 to 1 advantage to win when your attacking. Ypu don't have this. In invading Aust you'll find your own death warrent.

You have been on our blacklist for a long time, Damien, come to Aust please, come and die.

You shall rot in hell damien should you set one foot on our country.

We shall not be sleeping, but I suppose you shall be sleeping in the fire soon.

Emporer Palpatine the 4th


"Bastard. get everyone in here, The commander of air land and sea forces."

"So you, Admiral Young and Prince William sire?"

"And the most senior generals, Admirals, and Wing leaders."

"sire.

Another message came in.


Emperor Vespasius sends Aust his good luck wishes with fighting AMF. May god have mercy upon the invaders souls.

Erik Solar,
Imperial Councillor,
Minister of Foreign Affairs.

"Well we have one allie."

Okay. Have all 2 billion raised and one 24 hour notice within 3 days.

Wank much. :rolleyes:

ooc: 0_o, billion man armies?

ooc: 0_o, billion man armies?

They are basically his national guard. From what I understand, they'll hold down their jobs, stay at home, but when the shit hits the fan in their area, they're bound to march to the front lines. A titanic bureaucratic mess, sure, but not totally infeasible.

OoC: Presgrief, please note your messages as OoC or IC in this case.

Do not fill up this thread with OoC rubbish, thank you.

Euroslavia will be keeping an eye on this mobilization...Any attack upon the allied nation of Automagfreek will be considered an attack upon Euroslavia, therefore, a declaration of war will follow.

OoC: Presgrief, please note your messages as OoC or IC in this case.

Do not fill up this thread with OoC rubbish, thank you.

This is an OOC message, for those of you who don't know

I think it was quite obvious that my message was ooc. Also, questioning a 2 billion man home army isn't rubbish, as far as I'm concerned. National guard my ass. No country has the resources to train and arm every man and woman in their country, sorry.

This is an OOC message, for those of you who don't know

I think it was quite obvious that my message was ooc. Also, questioning a 2 billion man home army isn't rubbish, as far as I'm concerned. National guard my ass. No country has the resources to train and arm every man and woman in their country, sorry.

OOC: I couldn't agree more. 2 billion men armies is obviously a gross misunderstanding of logistics/monetary fundings.

This is an OOC message, for those of you who don't know

I think it was quite obvious that my message was ooc. Also, questioning a 2 billion man home army isn't rubbish, as far as I'm concerned. National guard my ass. No country has the resources to train and arm every man and woman in their country, sorry.

OoC: Aust uses this way to get an army, AMF uses sentinels. If you call that on yer ass, you can go study AMF's sentinels too and tell me thats fully legal.

Now go away and don't come back without proof.

ooc: I've never roleplayed a war with AMF, so I don't know what kind of numbers he brings. Nor do I understand why you expect me to answer for him. Also, why are you so hostile? Its just a game, for pete's sake...

ooc: I've never roleplayed a war with AMF, so I don't know what kind of numbers he brings. Nor do I understand why you expect me to answer for him. Also, why are you so hostile? Its just a game, for pete's sake...

OoC: Defensive of my allies, in these times it is needed to stand up for ones friends, especialy if they cannot be online all the time.

OOC: I've also never dealt with AMF militarily, but if you consider his sentinels to be a godmode, then doing the same, to make your military a godmode isn't the best response to it...

OOC: I've also never dealt with AMF militarily, but if you consider his sentinels to be a godmode, then doing the same, to make your military a godmode isn't the best response to it...

OoC: I do not consider them a god-mod since this is not real-life.

But as this is not real-life, why can't Aust arm most of its citizens?

Last post from me on this subject, please TG or talk to me on AIM or MSN to continue this conversation.

OOC: Just to provide a bit of basis, I hope that when you role-play your army Aust that you include a bit of mutinous intent in your army. This is based on several statistics that you have already mentioned.

Given that your nation is somewhere around 3.7 billion people, your nation will not have enough resources stockpiled to keep them at the defensive ready for very long. This is, after all, a militarization of no less than 54% of your entire population; the losses in farmers, civil police officers, and factory workers for just one day would send your economy into catastrophe. Consider the attacks on September 11 and how that week of lost commercial aviation flights has bankrupted almost every significant American carrier today. Multiply that on a scale of perhaps two or three thousand and that's what will happen on a broad mobilization scale.

The costs to arm and pay those individuals would be extremely prohibitive as well. Even if they were to only get paid on a per day basis, the treasury of your national government's defense budget would be depleted extremely rapidly. Consider the following very basic calculation.


[Aust: Population of 3.725 Billion (Ideal Situation: No Unemployment, No Corruption)]

Per Capita income: Frightening (~$35,000)
Income Tax Rate: 100%

Gross Domestic Product = National Budget ~130 Trillion Dollars (1.30375 * 10^14)

Military Budget (Extreme Spending): 25% of National Budget ~32.6 Trillion Dollars

Military Budget (Subdued Spending): 15% of National Budget ~19.56 Trillion Dollars



Reserve Soldier Pay (Conservative Funding): $25,000 Per Year of Service

Per Day of Service = $68.44 per Soldier

Costs for Salaries = ~$136,892,000,000 per Day

[Basic Supplies]:

-Food and Water (2 Meals at $2.50 per meal): $10,000,000,000 per Day

-Fuel (1 Vehicle per 50 Soldiers consuming 10 Gallons of Gasoline [$1.50 per gallon] per day): $600,000,000 per Day

Rough Per Day Cost (Not including the inevitable costs of maintenance, transport, or various other services such as medical care): ~$147.492 Billion Per Day

[At this rate your defense budget would be depleted in a span of 220 days of extreme military spending without any way to repair damaged equipment or maintain care for your troops on the front lines. As for the more realistic subdued spending, the budget would have evaporated by the afternoon of day 132 of combat.]


Also, to be noted, since 54% of your national economy is effectively on the front lines not earning any profits, your nation loses approximately $192 Billion dollars of Daily Revenue. Your economy could technically survive such an onslaught for a brief period of time, but the after effects would destroy the economic structure of your nation.

NOTE: I am not, nor have I ever claimed to be, an expert on the field of economic theory.

... I was about to say that :D

OOC: And of course lets not forget weapons and the complete impossibility of organising a two billion man army? This is probably the biggest God-Mode that Aust has made since his several hundred-thousand man "secret" paratroop drop against another nation.

Automagfreeks army probably works out at less then eight million men, most likely not all Sentinals though I can't be certain of that. Sentinals have been roleplayed so many times in history that everyone knows he uses them... meanwhile we have to take into account that if a nation doesn't like it then they ignore him, not godmode back. Seeing as The Macabees is the one who started the affair, one can assume that he knows full well that Automagfreek may us his army (and Sentinals) as a responce. You two also know that AMF has Sentinals and have thus yet not ignored him for it.

Now just to be clear, many nations ignored Russian Forces for using 40 Million troops to invade Automagfreek a long time ago because the logistics for the force were deemed a joke. Claiming two billion men in a army is probably the most laughable ideas in NS war history, similar to claims made by day old newbies who don't know any better.

Like it's been suggested, it's impossible to support that many men because the support required is in the army itself needing support. All Automagfreek has to do is wait for them to starve to death as there isn't enough people making food for you to feed them all.

Claiming two billion men in a army is probably the most laughable ideas in NS war history

*applaudes*

OOC: It's simple: Every man and woman in Aust is Conscripted from 14-21 and once they finsih there conscription they are presented with a weapon. When they go back to 'real' life they are required to join the reserves until 40. They already have weapons and thus I have that many reserves. This is unpaid and most reserves will be over 30 so they are proably forgotten there training.

From 40 upwards they are required to join thew Citizens Mitila which is basicly a joke, some of it's members can't walk!

So basicly the reservists are a huge force, i can put them on 24 hour call, but moving them....

Impossable.

They will protect there home country. In Aust of course guns are legalised so most famillys will have 1 gun.

After all, how many guns are there in America, arn't there one per person.

My main army is only 1 million strong(100 legions), my airforce has 8,000 planes, and my navy 8 fleets.

Now if i've turned my nation to a total war econermy that means anything I can use to make weapons ect will be used. You have the wrong end of the stick, it's just a reserve force not even fesibly useful for the battlefeild.

it's a logistical nightmare and I doubt that i can use them.

And Iuthia, I realise AMF can do that, but if this dosn't work I've killed my self.

Reichschancellor Einheit: So, Aust is at war? I've never had a problem with them.

Wire them $650 billion. For the war effort. Tell them it's a personal gift from the Reichschancellor of North Germania. Make sure no one knows about it. That could turn into a diplomatic nightmare.

- N.G.

Reichschancellor Einheit: So, Aust is at war? I've never had a problem with them.

Wire them $650 billion. For the war effort. Tell them it's a personal gift from the Reichschancellor of North Germania. Make sure no one knows about it. That could turn into a diplomatic nightmare.

- N.G.
Thank you.


OOC:Anyone good with economics, I was just using my own hazy guesswork to see if this would work, how long would my econermy last under these conditions?

ooc: Well, considering that you'd totaly lose the confidence of your investors, which would most probably very quickly lead to mass selling and an eventual stockmarket crash, not very long. I guess we could go into alot of detail, but suffice to say that by doing this you're leading your nation to economic ruin, at which point your people will rebel against you. If this is really the only way you can defend against AMF, I would reccomend you come to terms peacefully.

ooc: Well, considering that you'd totaly lose the confidence of your investors, which would most probably very quickly lead to mass selling and an eventual stockmarket crash, not very long. I guess we could go into alot of detail, but suffice to say that by doing this you're leading your nation to economic ruin, at which point your people will rebel against you. If this is really the only way you can defend against AMF, I would reccomend you come to terms peacefully.
OOC: I know my normal army can't take him, thoguh i could hold him in the Bambinio corrodor, however I'm on his blacklist so....
I was pritty sure that would happen. If AMF dosn't attack within 24 hours I'll have to reverse the deployment.

"Every man and woman in Aust is Conscripted from 14-21 and once they finsih there conscription they are presented with a weapon."

In otherwords you have every member of your society out of education, work and anything productive towards your society for seven years. And instead of them contributing to Aust's economy, they are in fact taking an obcene amount of money being paid, fed and equipped in a seven year long training program which will have a large percentage of your population in it at any time.

Meanwhile you have a professional force (i.e one which continued to be in the military after their consciption to become real soldiers) which would also be taking a percentage of your population away from the productive society taking away more funds while being supported by the tax payer (which you have less of because they are either in their conscription training or the military).

Basically, it sounds like your nation already has a crappy economy in the first place because the people who actually pay taxes and do work for your factories and companies are in fact serving out their time. Leaving much less people to actually make money which goes towards taxes which pays for your obcene military.

I don't have a problem against complusory military... but seven years is alot. The longer the time the more of your people won't be working in real jobs. My own program is more based around indoctrinating the people and is only a one year period with some of them going professional and joining the real military.

... actually... I get the impression this is all going to go on deaf ears. Nevermind. Just really... if you want to be taken seriuosly, don't even try and actually mobilise two billion people, it can't realistically be done other then actually saying on the news "be ready" and hoping for the best. You NEED people to actually continue working or your economy will crash and you will become easy pickings.

OOC: I know my normal army can't take him, thoguh i could hold him in the Bambinio corrodor, however I'm on his blacklist so....
I was pritty sure that would happen. If AMF dosn't attack within 24 hours I'll have to reverse the deployment.

ooc: God Aust, you seem reasonable enough, so just come to terms damnit! Let me put it this way: you're sentencing billions of your own people to suffering and ruin. Why? So you can defend an ally who was inept and stupid enough to attack one of the most powerful nations in the world for kicks. Think about it.

Now now, I'm not saying he can't have his people try and fight off the freaks with their own guns in the cities... I'm just saying he can't really claim to give them seven years training each and then organise them into a force. His nation will probably have a large military for it's type with a very crap reserves of his people which will most likely die if they are caught near any real action.

It's just you know, 2 billion people forces are obcene and as such I'm explaining why. Same goes for a complusory military service of seven years.

66% of your population?! Bit excessive, no?

We are currently in battle with the Monster known as AMF, Damien will fall under our combine might may hell rain down upon all AMF.
Chancellor Malek

OOC:As Aust has already stated... they ALREADY have jobs. They dont actually fight unless the enemies army moves into their city/town/neighberhood/whatever.

OOC: There is another problem here that his nation will run out of food shortly after they are called up. This is a godmodd as there is no way that 34% of a population can do everthing to run a natin when 66% are fighting. This is a godmodd. Even in WWII no nation really went above 10% as the whole nation would starve and all supplies would run out. Aust is godmodding here. I thought FWS was bad when reserves equaled 18% of his pop, but this is ridiculous.

OOC: I could say a large essay with good points on why this is bad, but my comrades have already provided the points, so I'll put this down. Surrender. The terms won't be great, but you brought yourself to a war you can't fight. Wouldn't you rather have your country stay alive then be destroyed? Destroyed just for an idiot nation?

ooc: Its possible to have such an extreme military force in a state of total war. Look at the Soviet Union and Germany during World War 2. Even countries like England had almost every able bodied man in the military or working in an military industrial complex. In fact towards the end of the war England had to disband 1 division per month in order to keep there front line divisions at full strenght.

Of course when your doing this the war is not invorgirating to the economy and you would have a post war Europe atmoshpere afterwards a country that will be in debt for a good 30 years.

OOC: I could say a large essay with good points on why this is bad, but my comrades have already provided the points, so I'll put this down. Surrender. The terms won't be great, but you brought yourself to a war you can't fight. Wouldn't you rather have your country stay alive then be destroyed? Destroyed just for an idiot nation?

OoC: Exactly why are you people bugging Aust to surrender and not me? I mean, I have no chance in hell to defeat AMF, Aust does and yet you ask him to surrender?

The Iron Concordiat of Wirraway will contemplate mobilizing in support of Aust.

OOC: These Godmodding accusations have thrwon me off.

-tagged-

OOC: Alright, this is what Aust is saying from my view. THe people continue in their regular lives. THey go to work, make money and so on. Nothing has changed. Except when the enjemy is within range they all grab their guns and jump into pre-made defences. That city is obliterated and AMF's forces move to the next city. The 2 billion man army isn't even an army. Its just 2 billion people that have guns and will shoot at invaders when they can hit them.

IC:
...Encrypting...
...2 VX encryption...

Official Imperial Communique:

To: Aust
From: Chancellor Licinius

The board is set and the pieces are moving. You may be able to stand this flood with a little help. I'm sorry to say I can not give military aid, but I will sire you 700 billion US dollars in the most secure way I know how.

End Transmission

OOC: I'm not to up to date on wiring but I did it so AMF cant find out and utterly rape my country in a war, then rape it again.

OOC: 2 billion man army? Go ahead Aust, use it. I seriously mean it, use all 2 billion of 'em. I know exactly what will happen if you do, Schultaria Prime and Iuthia are exactly right. The larger your army gets, the easier you make it for me.

And if anyone considers my Sentinels a godmod, go through the Archive and do some actual reading. It seems every other month I'm having to defend my Sentinels from godmod claims, and frankly I'm sick and tired of doing it. They are not super soldiers by any stretch of the imagination.....unless you consider using brutal and fear inspiring tactics godmodding. :rolleyes:

So go ahead Aust, rally every last man, woman, and child. It will simply give legitimacy to my 'salted-Earth' tactics which you know I'm now going to employ. Have a nice day.

OOC: Even if this "2 billion man" army is possible, you'll have to deal with a lot of problems. Considering how these men are essentially militiamen conscripted some point into the military, you got a serious problem at your hand as not only you have much less officers actually looking after them and their discipline, you don't even have enough officers to command their units seeing how few people would be trained to be officers in your cases. Not mentioning that you'll have serious problems also arming them and providing them with some form of transportation, as I would find it to be very difficult to provide literally near billions of firearms, aside from the fact that unless your troops are going to travel with their legs for thousands of kilometers, you aren't going to have much success in finding adequate transportation. Being able to have such large military forces is out of question - it is outright impossible, unless you have no people being skilled enough to manage cruical things such as education, healthcare, and law enforcement.

Mobilization is out of the question - it is beyond outright impossible. While the Soviet Union and Germany did mobilize many men, it takes a lot of time to do so. Take Operation Barbarossa, the largest land-based invasion ever, or example, while it involved a total of three million men (yes, 3 - which also includes Luftwaffe units and a lot of support personnel), it took months to prepare, aside from the fact that by then the Soviet Union was bordering German-occupied territory. While the Soviet Union on the other hand was caught by surprise (because of Stalin's belief that the Germans wasn't going to invade them that soon after the nonaggression pact with Germany) with somewhere between 4-6 million military personnel in total, it took a lot of time for the Soviet Union to actually transport extra troops in from further east.

But assuming that you are going to actually transport these people overseas by air and ships, eevn though it will be even more difficult logistically, good luck trying. You'll be looking at an operation that is 6000 times larger than D-Day.

Even if I don't ignore such a claim, my best luck in your mobilization, and I'll be seeing your troops fully mobilized in another fifty years.

OoC: Exactly why are you people bugging Aust to surrender and not me? I mean, I have no chance in hell to defeat AMF, Aust does and yet you ask him to surrender?

ooc:What "people"? The only one who asked him to come to terms with AMF is me. If it makes you feel any better, I'd like you to come to terms before getting your nation squashed as well. Man, you really need attention, don't you? :rolleyes:

OOC: Didn't he say that the army is not moving? Didn't he admit logistics would be a nightmare and that furthered why they wouldn't be mobile men?

OOC: Although I don't ICly support Aust, in response to Omz's post, I just have to say that whilst the numbers are far too high to be believed, he is only using these 'soldiers' in defence, not offense. Its sort of, from what I can gather, similar to the British Home Guard of WW2. Officers are retired military, the soldiers are (presumably) badly trained and equipped, and solely for use in defending towns and nearby strategic positions. At the end of the day, they are never going to stop a well trained army deployed using any form of tactics, no matter how bad.

Besides, as the war rages on, more and more of them are going to start wondering if its really worth dying for, and the number of deserters will be huge, effectively negating the usefulness of such a force.

OOC: Didn't he say that the army is not moving? Didn't he admit logistics would be a nightmare and that furthered why they wouldn't be mobile men?

Meh... if anyone paid attention I already stated that I can understand the situation being that they aren't really a force and are instead basically a bunch of men who will try and defend the city if they are attacked...

However, I would concider seven years complusory service to be pretty much a GODMOD if you want to have the funds to support a career army of any reasonable quality and an economy to support the complusory service in the first place.

Any nation can claim people in it's population will defend their cities... though you have to remeber that in comparison to a green wet behind the ears soldier they are still more likely to be killed. Such a defencive force wouldn't be well organised, it would be shit scared and it's moral would make it easy to break them.

It's not impossible to defend like Aust may do, though I can't accept seven freaking years in complusory service unless his people are idiots for missing out on education and his economy is bankrupt after sporting so many men and women who should have jobs instead of military training.

Doing a Allanea (using gun-nuts to fight soldiers attacking cities) buts the populace willing to fight in a suicidal situation and the remaining populace in a dangerous situation because AMF forces will shoot on sight because other civilians are shooting at them so everyone is a potential hostile.

It's no substitute for a trained force designed for it. However in a desperate situation I guess you may find them being able to put up very minor resistance.

The USSS pledges fellowship with those who stand against AMF and his allies/cronies. After weighing the situation, we have decided that this travesty of justice cannot be rendered upon the world without irrevocable consequences.

While still hoping to resolve the situation peacefully, the USSS has commenced the mobilizing of her armies and fleets. Warships in their hundreds have been summoned to Skeptic outposts and commanded to full readiness. Millions of USSS citizens have received notices informing them of their new war industry job. Millions more, in Skepticism's armies, congregate at important defensive points and hurry to board transport ships so as to be most able to respond if the situation worsens. Blackouts have commenced at all major cities and the local missile defense nets have been activated. All leaves are cancelled, safeties deactivated, defense projects hurried to completion. If necessary, the normally peaceful bureaucrats and citizens of the USSS shall join in this great fight, no matter how futile some may call it.

OOC: This is not not not a declaration of war. I am reiterating it plainly here just to avoid unpleasant mistakes. If war becomes necessary, however, the USSS will be ready.
ooc: Skept, could you please clarify (I'm being serious, not sarcastic) what would actually drive your nation to a decleration of war?
Quite frankly, that isn't your business. Whatever it is, it hasn't happened yet, but unfortunately looks quite likely to occur soon.

ooc: Skept, could you please clarify (I'm being serious, not sarcastic) what would actually drive your nation to a decleration of war?

The ONI Concodiat will consider mobilizing to side with Aust, if the war goes horribly wrong

The ONI Concodiat will consider mobilizing to side with Aust, if the war goes horribly wrong

OOC: How exactly could it go wrong? Or did you mean if the war starts?

OOC: I would assume it meant that it went horribly wrong for Aust.

OOC: Woohoo, okay, I am going to get flamed. I don't like spamming threads with OOC comments, but I have to say this.

When you are talking about a national guard or 66% of population that is mobilized in time of war, it would be perfectly feasible except for the nagging detail of having no work done back in the country.

During WWII in America, a draft was called, but such a small percent of the population was called up so others, namely, in this case, females, could stay and work back at the homeland.

To feed and maintain such an army, and keep the country running smoothly at home, THAT is why only a small percent of a population can be called up, even during emergencies. A country needs to continue working back at home.

North Korea, with a population of 23 million, can only manage a military of 6 millionby letting the country go to waste, with all the starvation and such.

I know this is NS, but please, at least attempt a semblance of reality.

OCC: I am sorry Aust, But i think you have complete destroyed any Rep you have with this Thread, 2 Billion? come on, Its clear that this is a GODMOD and a half your Nations rep and Future within NS is basically gone. Leave While your Ahead Aust your only making things worse.

OOC: THis is basically what I understand. His soldeirs already have weapons. They are not leaving, their is little to no logistics. When the enemy coems to them they will fight.
Ex:You work at the local store in Aust.
Aust calls the reserves to arms, basically a warning.
Your gun is unloacked and loaded
Your life continues and you continue to work for the economy and do your job
The enemies are within (Insert distance)
Jobs stop and everyone goes home, a massive lunch break
Everyopne gets their weapons and goes to the defences
Force, somewhat trained, either survives with casualties or is obliterated

OOC: He said mobilize, and from what I understand he was/is provoking the war. So he's switching to a primarily antagonistic force to a homeland militia after wanting to start a war?

And mobilizing billion man armies generally does not mean "Stand-by, militia!" It means, "Troops, pack up, we're invading ---!"

It does not matter though, as Dr. Twist said it best.

OOC: Guys, everyone with AMF has no problem with Aust handing guns to his civillians. Our problem is with the fact all of his people are trained for 7 years! That's a long time to train.

OOC: All I got was a thanks? Bahhh.

And if anyone considers my Sentinels a godmod, go through the Archive and do some actual reading. It seems every other month I'm having to defend my Sentinels from godmod claims, and frankly I'm sick and tired of doing it. They are not super soldiers by any stretch of the imagination.....unless you consider using brutal and fear inspiring tactics godmodding. :rolleyes:


OoC: Never said I did, only said that it coudn't be done by any RL country. Why not? Since I don't see any army using them, thats why.

But is this real life? No, if you want that(and I quote AMF) turn off the computer and go outside.

Why is it not possible to mobilise a 2 billion men army? Because no RL country has ever done it? Because its not possible if you look at your real life references?

But is this real life? No, if you want that, turn off the computer and go outside.

OoC: Never said I did, only said that it coudn't be done by any RL country. Why not? Since I don't see any army using them, thats why.

But is this real life? No, if you want that(and I quote AMF) turn off the computer and go outside.

Why is it not possible to mobilise a 2 billion men army? Because no RL country has ever done it? Because its not possible if you look at your real life references?

But is this real life? No, if you want that, turn off the computer and go outside.

If this Really Happened in Real Life, National Industry would Grind to a Halt, there would be no one in the Nation Working to Send food to theses Forces Build Tanks Planes Bullets Spoons Pots and Pans, THERE IS NO ONE, There all on the Battlefield, The Nation would be on the Verge of Collapse because of the Stupidly large amount of Mobilized Forces. There would be Ni Fuel for Vehicles so No Planes can get in the Air, No Ships can be Sent out of the Nation as there is no one to Man them to get Supplies and no Fuel for the ship to sail to get the Supplies. Tanks can’t go any where they would have no Ammo, The Guns of the Population would have no Ammo to fire at Enemy Forces.

This is Stupid we all know its Stupid, such a Large Amount if Impossible to Supply with Ammo Food Fuel and who knows what else they need.

OOC: Two billion people picking up weapons is certainly feasible. However, after a short time, his economy will collapse - we can all agree on that?

So its two billion people, mostly disorganized, armed and ready to defend with outmodded skills. It would be a problem, but not an impossibility.

The damage to Aust would be significant in any case - the economy will collapse regardless, and after six months or so, general starvation will set in.

Interesting.

I wonder if Aust can pull off an RP like that.

OOC: Two billion people picking up weapons is certainly feasible. However, after a short time, his economy will collapse - we can all agree on that?

So its two billion people, mostly disorganized, armed and ready to defend with outmodded skills. It would be a problem, but not an impossibility.

The damage to Aust would be significant in any case - the economy will collapse regardless, and after six months or so, general starvation will set in.

Interesting.

I wonder if Aust can pull off an RP like that.

I do Agree with you, 2 Billion Technically is Possible, But he would Need a Pretty Strong Government to Make it Possible, Because doing so much mobilization on such a Level could so easily bring Civil war, It's accepted that his Economy is now gone with this Mobilization. However i think his Armed Forces will Start Starving sooner then 6 Months and where is the Ammo and Fuel needed for those Guns and Vehicles going to come from? if a Single Nation was Dedicated to doing this along with Aus without being in the War itself, it could easily Damage there Economy as well and Bring it down.

ooc// well it seems to me that it is possible to do (and win)... look at iraq, they have the same or less training than that which he is suggesting and seem to have a chance of winning.

ooc// well it seems to me that it is possible to do (and win)... look at iraq, they have the same or less training than that which he is suggesting and seem to have a chance of winning.

OOC: With AMF's tactics? If AMF was rping the Iraq war, 20 million Iraqis would probably be dead, the other 5 million scared shitless. I've researched him a lot today.

ICly, I'm going to remain neutral, for obvious reasons.

To be honest I'm surprised you didn't really factor in the previous arguements made regarding the people of Aust continuing their work as normal (with exception of their true military forces which will be working to secure the nation) however they have been told to be prepared for war itself and should they be told to defend their area, say a town or even parts of a city, then they would quickly form a conscript defence.

We all know for a fact he can't use the obcene two billion figure as an actual army and while the first several posts suggest that they are being organised for combat (mobilisation) the later posts suggest a basic "Shit they are coming, man the defences" style use of their populace.

Basically the level of mobilisation we are talking about here is to tell everyone who still has their gun and ammo to be ready to pick it up and defend their peice of Aust. There isn't really any organisation to it because two billion people (probably the total of Aust's work capable populace given that the rest will be old people, sick people or children) isn't really a number you can organise with anything more then basic instructions.


So to further clarify this and to stop anymore comments from being made without reading the entirety of the posts made, here it is again:

It is likely that Aust's reserves are concidered two billion people, basically being anyone who can fight. These reserves are likely to have had enough training to hold a gun because of complusory military service, however I'm ignoring the "seven year training period" for this complusory service based on it's obcene cost and damage it would do. Instead I'm assuming his people can hold and shoot a gun. They will hardly remember anything more then basic training and won't have the reactions, team work or basic mentality of a trained soldier.

As it stands this two billion people, who are not part of the standing military which is trained to fight professionally, are not in any military sense "mobilised" due to the fact that in order to supply the war they have to continue work as normal, perhaps even cutting non-essential jobs and putting them into factories to produce more supplies for those fighting. They are however on alert and the cities will probably be equipped with Sirens or something of the sort which basically warn the people when attack is likely (say when hostiles are spotted near the area) which would then result in people stopping what they are doing and arming up... a process which itself would take a while to do properly but given that people won't need to be fully equipped for anything more then finding a barricade and hiding behind it with a gun I think we won't worry about that.

In reality however when one of these sirens go off, you will probably find alot of men may not be willing to even go to the defences... afterall, AMF has got a reputation and given the way the Aust government is encouraging the citizens to fight back it doesn't take much imagination for a citizen to figure that AMF troops will not be concidering citizens as non-hostile targets. Whats more their lack of training and drilling will result in the ones that do show up to be little more then a mild threat. Many will inevitably pause before firing, alot of training goes into getting rid of that pause. Their accuracy should be lowsy... even if they practice firing at the weekend it's not like they will have the luxury of aiming properly in such a stressful situation.

On the whole it probably won't be too sucessful, but it would give you something should your real soldiers be unable to defend a place. Even if it does give Automagfreek a reason to shoot civilians because they are fighting against them (and as such all your civilians are possible threats).

This is how I would percieve this two billion person force in such a way that it isn't a godmode and could be realistically done. Should you need to replace fallen soldiers you could use some of your populace, though I would suggest using reserves as they are intended... a little extra boost and nothing significant. As we already determined there is a limit to how many active soldiers you can be using at once, so only use a preportion of your population at a time, less you suffer the problem of stretching your logicists.

Thats the comprehensive opinion on the matter at least. I hope it gives everyone something to think on and providing a good solution to what may actually be meant and how to RP it.

Tag

OOC: Thanks for telling me this stuff, I'm basicly some kid with a good idea of history and a good imagination, I don't know much about economics ect. So this has proved enlightening.

My basic idea was one of forces wnitversitie with a bit of millitary thrown in. ie. They come out with there careers chosen as to the best of there ability. (Like Futurama) and if a enermy attacks Aust there told to pick up there gun and fight. Some are in units, (ie. In villages) or in indvidual Sky scrapers, but most will fight on there own.

All have sworn loyalty to the Emporer but know stuff about Napolianic wars historys (1 in 4 French conscripts dies without killing a enermy) most will die quickly. But when you invade huge places like Aust city.

They are anyone under 60 who is able to fight. Anyone over 60 is in the Citizens Mitila and is expected to fight as well bu

t not expected to do anymore but wait for the enermy.

It's basically as Iutha says. They will probbly not do anything more than stand and wait for the enermy to come.

My true forces are 158 legions, which is a rwadicly decrease number as there have been in the past. and 29 ASS legions and the Royal guards and the Deaths head legion. Around 1.65 million men, who will have had there carreers chosen from leaving conscription. Diciplin should be high as these are the 'cream' of Aust.

I have a small armoured wing (100 tank corps,) and a large air forces. I have a small navy.

They are basicly a conscripted British Home guard.

Does that clear it up?

OOC: Thats what I've been saying but Iuthia does have a valid point. What is the seven year 'training' part? A whole seven years would be enough to almost, if not, collapse your nation. THe only plausible idea I can come up with is that these people go to the local barracks on weekends. So when they have thier work done and its their weekend, the government tells them to go to the local barracks. Every weekend they are there and they train and then the week comes and they go bakc to work. You could also require them to spend vacation there, or let them have real relax time.

OOC: Thats what I've been saying but Iuthia does have a valid point. What is the seven year 'training' part? A whole seven years would be enough to almost, if not, collapse your nation. THe only plausible idea I can come up with is that these people go to the local barracks on weekends. So when they have thier work done and its their weekend, the government tells them to go to the local barracks. Every weekend they are there and they train and then the week comes and they go bakc to work. You could also require them to spend vacation there, or let them have real relax time.
OOC: It was just a guess, can I shortent it to about 2 years (14 to 16)

The United States of Shalrirorchia is also expanding an already completed mobilization, and offering supply to the Austian Alliance.

U.S.S. Weapons:

BR-55 Battle Rifle: chambered for 9.5mm rounds, this powerful and accurate rifle fires in 3-round bursts, 36 round clip.

Hades Mortar: A fun toy of the Shalrirorchian military, which has never lacked personal explosive devices for the infantry, the Hades Mortar can deliver high-explosive or napalm rounds to the target with startling accuracy.

AT-10 Javelin- Anti-vehicle rocket launcher that fires HEAT rockets. Three round magazine allows for barrage fire before needing a reload.

M7 SMG- 60 round clip of 5mm bullets. Full automatic fire generates excessive recoil.

MA5B- An older assault rifle variant that fires on single shot, full automatic, or three-round burst. Comes with built-in light. 60 round clip. Replaced with the more accurate and more powerful BR-55, but still in use.

Thank you.

...Encrypting...
...2VX Encryption completed...

Official Imperial Communique:

To: Aust
From: CHancellor Licinius

Do you have the RM-30 Emperor? If not we may be able to give you some.

End transmission

OOC:

Pardon me for my two cents...

Not sure why you need a seven year period, Aust. In South Korea, every male (around 20 or so) serves for about 2 years, depending on the branch of service. As well, not all of them serve on the front lines. For example, my brother-in-law was in the navy and didn't even set foot on a ship! He just drove trucks.

Now, they also do practice once in a while, I think 2 or 3 weekends for a few years after their service but I don't know how effective they would be. After that, they were released from their obligations but a few of the older guys told me that they can still fire a gun and they looked in decent shape to me. But certainly not up to snuff with a well-trained and disciplined army. I mean, yeah, some of these old coots are tough, but not that tough.

According to the CIA factbook, the entry entitled:

Military manpower - fit for military service

This entry gives the number of males and females age 15-49 fit for military service. This is a more refined measure of potential military manpower availability which tries to account for the health situation in the country and reduces the maximum potential number to a more realistic estimate of the actual number fit to serve.


http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html#2025

works out to about 16% of the total pop, give or take a couple points I'd say. Maybe you can use this figure. I dunno. It would give you a figure of about 592 000 000 folks. That should be enough.

Still, I always found it amusing when my former students and co-workers (not now, but at my previous place of employment) would be casually strolling around the chemical plant with their machine guns and upon seeing me would wave and shout, "Hi teacher!"

If I were AMF, I would be blasting out the propaganda if I landed on your nation. You know, free cookies and food if you lay down your arms or something.

OOC:

Pardon me for my two cents...

Not sure why you need a seven year period, Aust. In South Korea, every male (around 20 or so) serves for about 2 years, depending on the branch of service. As well, not all of them serve on the front lines. For example, my brother-in-law was in the navy and didn't even set foot on a ship! He just drove trucks.

Now, they also do practice once in a while, I think 2 or 3 weekends for a few years after their service but I don't know how effective they would be. After that, they were released from their obligations but a few of the older guys told me that they can still fire a gun and they looked in decent shape to me. But certainly not up to snuff with a well-trained and disciplined army. I mean, yeah, some of these old coots are tough, but not that tough.

According to the CIA factbook, the entry entitled:



http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html#2025

works out to about 16% of the total pop, give or take a couple points I'd say. Maybe you can use this figure. I dunno. It would give you a figure of about 592 000 000 folks. That should be enough.

Still, I always found it amusing when my former students and co-workers (not now, but at my previous place of employment) would be casually strolling around the chemical plant with their machine guns and upon seeing me would wave and shout, "Hi teacher!"

If I were AMF, I would be blasting out the propaganda if I landed on your nation. You know, free cookies and food if you lay down your arms or something.
Thanks for the advice. I'm just wating for the attack now.

...Encrypting...
...2VX Encryption completed...

Official Imperial Communique:

To: Aust
From: CHancellor Licinius

Do you have the RM-30 Emperor? If not we may be able to give you some.

End transmission

...

...
OOC: Sorry.

Ic:
Yes we do.
Emporer Palpatine the 4th.

OOC: Aust, check your TGs.

OOC: Aust, check your TGs.
Cheaked, replyed.

OOC: I checked. Is this dead, or is AMF sick or something?