NationStates Jolt Archive

The House of Earls approved banning public Christianity at a 22-2 vote. This means that churches have to be destroyed. also, public Christian writings sales cannot take place. It has been allowed to order unabridged(sp?) bibles from a select few companies with licenses. Basically, you can have prayer at home and only at home. you can invite friends over, of course. Observing Sunday Sabbath is still legal. Any non-Christian religions are allowed public practice.

Be like me.
All religion is illegal.
All the time.

It's really just a response to all the forced conversions of millions, if not billions and the fact that they still want more members.

The communist nation of SROR announces full support of your decision.





-Official Statement Chairman,CP of SROR

DJM is quite pleased that your nation allows continued public Jewish prayer.

Sel Appa's decision of banning this religion is fully supported by the Kingdom of San Lucia. We hope that this will lead to further growth and prosperity of your economy.


- Otto von Hinderriech
Chief Diplomat and Minister of Foriegn Affairs
San Lucia

The Holy Imperial Empire of Belem condemns this act and demands that sel appa immediately revoke the law past and allow Catholicism to be a legal religion. If this is not done within 24 hours the Imperial Empire will take steps to force Sel Appa to change its laws for the better.

The community of Nonhypocrisies wishes to convey its concern in regards to the opression of a specific group among your people. We believe that the public practice of Christian religion should be allowed so long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others. However we will not be joining The Holy Empire of Belem in their ulitmatum.

Sincerely
Department of Foreign Affairs
The Community of Nonhypocrises

Official Response from Holy Republic of Hawdawg:

We are appauled at the recent steps you have taken to remove Christianity from public in your nation. The destruction of churches and the written word is totally unacceptable. We applaud the two brave souls who stood up to this attack on Christianity and voted against these measures. The perpetraitors of this attack will surely have to answer to a higher power, may the Lord show you no leniency. All products and services offered to or recieved from your country are no longer welcome in Hawdawg. Cease this nonsense or face the consequences.


Prime Minister Ivanhoe

Though i support this measure my nation would also suggest the ban of all practice of religion in public as to be fair. And also that the groups not be opressed.




-Chairman,CP of SROR

While we do see this as bigotry in a way, Tenarius does support the path you are taking. We will not take sides either way in this conflict, but will keep a close eye on the situation.

Katsuka Nakumo
Minister of Foreign Affairs

We suppose it will be interesting to see how this pans out. Especially given Belems constant over-reaction on where these matters are concern which could see the deaths of many of those they seek to save by going to war over little more then another nations choice to ban a religion without really going out of it's way to severely harm Christians.

The irony is that Belems actions could very well turn the nation further against Christianity because they rienforce the idea that Christian nations are war-mongering nut jobs who can't respect the ideas of national sovereignity and instead will choose to harm more Christians in a foolish crusade instead of diplomatically resolving the situation.

However, Belems record for idiocy is long and in places, humorous. Where as the banning of publically worshipping Christianity will have lost a large amount of support you could have had. So here your own nations record will begin and, if Belem is as crazy and obcene as usual, possibly even end here too.

Iuthia condemns the reasoning behind the banning of Christianity and will add your nation to the blacklist... though in truth this condemnation isn't going to be all that effective, it at least hi-lights our opinion on the matter.

Foriegn Minister Mick Lakely, Iuthian Diplomatic Corps

We have given our reasons and the terms. We believe this does not infringe upon Christianity, it just restricts it to fairness.

The government is atheist, but may make religious laws, like this, every now and then...

Meh, it doesn't change the fact that we aren't content with the reasoning which seems to be flawed. Christianity doesn't force people to become Christian... it may be more active in it's recuitment but no one is physically forced to be a Christian.

Our main concern is that your government is doing this out of some petty dislike for the religion and instead of simply making it illegal for religions to go door to door trying to convert people or making some other simplistic measure to control the methods you disaprove of you have outright banned public worship for them.

What happens if they do it anyways? I assume they will be arrested for worshiping their religion?

Unacceptable the clock is still ticking.

OOC:Sel Appa Get On MSn

IC: The USSCT fully supports Sel Appa's decision onthe banning of public chritianity.


Comrade Vladamir Medvedev, Leader of The United Socialist States of Comunisticturkey

Vasily Zaitsez, Minister Of War
Sasha Parlenova, Minister Of Foreign Affairs
Georgi Kostantavich, Minister Of Trade And Commerce
Viktor Stulukast, Minister Of News And Entertainment

We support Iuthia's position, and find Belem's reaction unacceptable. In order to find a peaceful compromise with mnimal harm to the people on all sides we propose diplomatic talks be held.

Elenor Wright
Foreign Secretary
Community of Nonhypocrises

The Holy Imperial Empire of Belem condemns this act and demands that sel appa immediately revoke the law past and allow Catholicism to be a legal religion. If this is not done within 24 hours the Imperial Empire will take steps to force Sel Appa to change its laws for the better.

Hello well first its not illegal its just not allowed in public.


Comrade Vladamir Medvedev, Leader of The United Socialist States of Comunisticturkey

Vasily Zaitsez, Minister Of War
Sasha Parlenova, Minister Of Foreign Affairs
Georgi Kostantavich, Minister Of Trade And Commerce
Viktor Stulukast, Minister Of News And Entertainment

Hello well first its not illegal its just not allowed in public.


Comrade Vladamir Medvedev, Leader of The United Socialist States of Comunisticturkey

Vasily Zaitsez, Minister Of War
Sasha Parlenova, Minister Of Foreign Affairs
Georgi Kostantavich, Minister Of Trade And Commerce
Viktor Stulukast, Minister Of News And Entertainment

It is one in the same.

Message to Belem:
Taking the path you seek, will endanger the lives of those you wish to save. You do not know if the government you are fighting are stable or not, they may respond to violence agaisnt them with the slaughter of many more. A more diplomatic approach can be reached, including the granting of refugee status and free travel to your, or other countries.
We will continue to moniter the situation.

Message to Sel Appa:
Whilst we applaud your use of sovereign rights, we do not condone the singling out of a single religion. Being Athiastic, we do not agree with the views of many religions, but allow them to excist in our country, unhindered, yet unassisted. Maybe less strict laws could be placed, or people who wish to leave could leave. They would be most welcome here.

The ban on public practice of Christianity is to be frowned upon. To single out a single religion for this is especially repugnant. It is sad that oppression of this degree is still applauded by some. This reminds me of another persecution, which shall remain vague and unnamed because of racist overtones. On second thought, it will remain unnamed, but those among this group who are discerning may be able to detrmine of which "crack down" I speak.

Message to Siesdta: We have already offered them our proposal they have yet to offer a productive counter offer and refuse to acknowledge the first offer. The deadline is in place to ensure that Christians suffer no undue suffering at the hands of the inept goverment of Sel Appa.


----------------

As of now two Imperial fleets and numerous troop transports are being redirected to a position approx. 500 miles of the coast of Sep Appa.

OOC: more info coming soon.

bump

This is an outrageous and horrible act. Christianity is one of the more peaceful religions in this world. And yet you get rid of it? My friend, although
I am not going to use violence towards you, I am warning you that other countries will use force to re-allow Christianity. I do not mind if you ban the forcing of religions on others, but destroying Christian churches? That's both evil and disrespectful to Christians around the world. May God help you rethink your descision.

-President John Holtz of the Conservative United States of Holy Paradise.

Nianacio strongly condemns this action of House of Earls of Sel Appa. To ban public display of religion would be bad enough, but to single out a particular group for your oppression is worse. Even if millions of people are being forced to convert (I find this in interesting and unlikely claim), you could ban forced conversions and increase funding of law enforcement. You had the option of protecting "millions" without oppression or discrimination, but you chose the route of oppression and discrimination with no increase of protection; those millions could still be kidnapped and converted in private homes. Your plan may have an unpleasant effect on the stability of your government. I ask the House of Earls to reconsider its decision.
However, Nianacio even more strongly condemns the actions of Belem. An attack on Sel Appa would be unacceptable, and could be disastrous. Please reconsider.
Nianacio will as soon as possible move its overseas naval presence to an unspecified position near the nation of Sel Appa.

Peaceful? Christianity has caused more wars and killed off more non-christian peoples than any other religion in the world. As well has pressing their religions beliefs on everyone else.






-Chairman,CP of SROR

To: The Leader of Belem
From: President John Holtz of Holy Paradise
Sub: Overreaction
My friend, as a fellow Christian nation I ask you, do not attack Sel Appa. Even though what they are doing is wrong, we must remain peaceful. For in the Bible doesn't it say, "Love your enemies as much as your friends, and do good to those who hate you."? If we show an example of Christian run nations being peaceful, maybe Sel Appa will change his mind. More is done through peace in these cases than violence.

Peaceful? Christianity has caused more wars and killed off more non-christian peoples than any other religion in the world. As well has pressing their religions beliefs on everyone else.






-Chairman,CP of SROR
True, true. But that's because of nutballs, not true Christians. If followed correctly, Christianity is the most peaceful of the major religions of the world.

Actually if you look into the religions Islam,Buddism,or Hinduism are the most peaceful of the worlds 5 largest religions

Peaceful? Christianity has caused more wars and killed off more non-christian peoples than any other religion in the world. As well has pressing their religions beliefs on everyone else.Has Christianity caused the wars, or been abused and misused as an excuse for them?

Has Christianity caused the wars, or been abused and misused as an excuse for them?

Christians claimed the Muslems were abusing the life 'god' gave them by not being christians, and went on the Crusades.

You could also argue that the nation of Belem threatening to go to war over the relgious matters in another nation further points towards the claim that Christianity starts wars...

Of course, this would be an inaccurate assumption given that it's not the religion which starts the war, but the idiots who feel they are doing the work of god who start wars.

Remember, religion doesn't kill people (often), people kill people. Stop people now!

>.>

<.<

The Commonwealth of Squirrellovers is horrified at your recent actions.
We will send several star transports for any refugees fleeing these recent atrocities.

If Belem attacks Sel Appa, we will send several space galleys to close down Sel Appa's airspace, but go no further.

We wont shut down private airspace, just sel appa government airspace

To: The Leader of Belem
From: President John Holtz of Holy Paradise
Sub: Overreaction
My friend, as a fellow Christian nation I ask you, do not attack Sel Appa. Even though what they are doing is wrong, we must remain peaceful. For in the Bible doesn't it say, "Love your enemies as much as your friends, and do good to those who hate you."? If we show an example of Christian run nations being peaceful, maybe Sel Appa will change his mind. More is done through peace in these cases than violence.

And it also says a tooth for a tooth. Many times has the bible called upon the faithful to defend themselves. The israelites entire history is defending themselves against those who would do them harm.

Message to all enemies of Sel Appa

Should the nation of Sel Appa, or any of her protectors come under attack, the agressors shall feel the full 'displeasure' of the Siesatian Space Navy. Our government is disterbed by the recent disregard for sovereign rights, and should any vessel of unknown origin aproach the coast of Sel Appa, the vessels will be destroyed with extreme prejustice.

Have a nice day:
President Nicholas Crescent

OK point taken we wont do anything in sel appa territory. We'll just send a space galley to fly around outside it and look threatening. Wouldn't want to start a major war involving us.

We still urge you to stop though

Emperor Joe
Commonwealth of Squirrellovers

Sel Appa will be prepared to fight any bums who think they can force us to rethink the law. Also, remember that Christians can still pray, just at home, in private. And that anything other than the bible that is christian is illegal. So no christian music, no reasons why you should be a christian. However, informational unbiased books are perfectly legal.

Offenders will receive between 2.5 and 5 years in jail. Anyone who wishes to leave has to go through the same process as everyone else and religion is not a base for immigration or emmigration.

The House of Earls has appointed a 5-member non-christian commission to research christian divisions(such as Lutheran, Mormon, Catholicism...) to determine which paticular groups are the worst. It is pending whether Mormonism may be fully banned(refugees may leave if they wish).

The community of Nonhypocrises wishes to extend welcome to all civillians fleeing the religous law reform in Sel Appa.

This is Sep Appa's last chance to stand down immediately and overturn the law. There shall be no further warnings

------------
specs on the fleets off coast:

ships per fleet:
4 Intrepid Carriers
4 Fiery Avenger missile ships
4 Tracker ASW ships
4 Shield AA ships
20 Romulus Battleships
30 Legate Battlecruisers
40 Centurion Heavy Destroyers
60 Vesivous Frigates
20 Velite attack submarines(using caterpillar drives to stay silent)

Accompyning the fleet are numerous supply and logistical ships as well as 75 troop transports.

Statement by the Bishop Walter-o Mondale-o to the Urukkian Orthodox Christian Church:

Although this new Sel Appan law is highly contradictory to the religious policies of Urukku, we will stand by Sel Appa. They are still our ally, and we will defend them from any attempts to infringe on their sovereignty.

So, good people of Urukku, though I know this decision may anger you, and our response may anger you further, you must remember that your anger and hate will accomplish nothing here. Keep the Christians of Sel Appa in your prayers as we keep the Enemies of Sel Appa in our gunsights.

Christ be with you,
Amen.

Accompyning the fleet are numerous supply and logistical ships as well as 75 troop transports.

OCC: Ew, you think if you were serious about starting a war against someone who obviously is new to the game you would give them an example of how you roleplay a war properly.

If all you are going to do is post numbers and a line of roleplay when your actions will seriously fuck up someone who is new to the game then I would suggest they ignore your crappy roleplaying skills as you are clearly just a bully who can't be assed to do things properly. You are clearly just here to 'pwn' another newbie who doesn't know better and can't fight back.

I would honestly suggest ignoring him until he puts some effort in. You don't have to take crappy RP like this, even if the nation does have lots of posts and should know better.

Sel Appa has ciphoned off 150,000 troops from it's current war to defend against possible attacks by Belem.

Sel Appa warns Belem that an attack on us will likely launch a world war and possibly the death of millions.

In response to Belem's continued an unabated warmongering, the Phalanx Council has voted to activate three offensive Phalanxes (Red-Crux, Black-Crux, White Bear), a total of some 240,000 men, 890 Tanks, 480 Jet Fighters, 100 Bombers, including veteran Red-Crux Paratroopers.

Stand Down, Belem.

We will stand by our ally.

OCC: Ew, you think if you were serious about starting a war against someone who obviously is new to the game you would give them an example of how you roleplay a war properly...

OOC: I am not a newbie and I know how to roleplay.

Slaytanicca's stance on the matter depends on whether organised Christianity in your country is an oppressed minority, or an opressive majority. If the former, we beg Sel Appa to rethink it's decision and will not hesitate to impose trade restrictions should another breach of basic rights be legislated. If the latter, we think the decision wise if not exactly laudable, and will not hesitate to aid Sel Appa in the case of conflict.

Regards,
Jeff C Gorevomit, Slaytanicca

This is religious affiliation in our country:
28% Atheist
25% Jewish
23% Muslim
10% Asian(Buddhism, Taoism,...)
7% Christian
5% Hindu
2% Other

We are not oppressing Christians at all, just limiting their ability to advance their religion.

OCC: Ew, you think if you were serious about starting a war against someone who obviously is new to the game you would give them an example of how you roleplay a war properly.

If all you are going to do is post numbers and a line of roleplay when your actions will seriously fuck up someone who is new to the game then I would suggest they ignore your crappy roleplaying skills as you are clearly just a bully who can't be assed to do things properly. You are clearly just here to 'pwn' another newbie who doesn't know better and can't fight back.

I would honestly suggest ignoring him until he puts some effort in. You don't have to take crappy RP like this, even if the nation does have lots of posts and should know better.

that was just specs. I didn't even start the roleplay yet considering the ultimatum doesnt run out for another hour. thats just so people know whats coming via recon.

Message to various nations concerning the recent events in and surrounding Sel Appa:

To Sel Appa- We condemn this blah blah blah. Why don't you just make it against the law to advertise one's religion or maybe make it against the law to force conversions (one would think that would already be against the law, but one never knows)? We won't interfere in your nation in any way, but we don't think this is the best course of action. And do not think that this is some Christian nation, Our nation is 65% pagan.

To Belem- We have no idea what whoever does the moving and shaking in this nation is smoking/drinking, but it must be some powerful stuff. First of all, who gave Belem the power to decide things in Sel Appa? Christians aren't being put to death or tortured or any kind of genocidal thing, they're just being prohibited from practicing in public. Though we are pagan, we have read the bible, and Jesus actually said once that praying should be done in private. And if Belem intercedes, probably a great many Christians will be killed. We are sure that a diplomatic solution can be worked out. Don't be so quick to rush to war, for even the greatest powers can be defeated by guerilla fighting.

To Holy Paradise- Christianity is a very peaceful religion in theory. In practice, it is quite violent, as the great numbers of our citizens who were burned at the stake for heresy when Altar Rang invaded could tell you if they were still alive. In theory, Christianity is a compassionate religion. In practice, it is more warlike than our ancient pagan one (which is by no means peaceful).

All signed by
King Haakon IX

"Sir, we're detecting a massive fleet near the nation of Sel Appa. They've recently banned Christianity from public worship, but have yet to oppress the actual religion. It appears the nation threatening them has moved a fleet close to them. Sir, we have a hundred ships in orbit to check the gravity field of Earth for the proper place for an orbital platform proposed by ISEC. You're orders?" Lieutenant Soylaba said.

"Order all ships to power up the disruptors and take targets. Ten are to target the fleet near Sel Appa and the other ninety are to target military bases and potential military installations in the threatening nation. If a hostile action is taken, destroy the fleet and let the hostile nation know we won't hesitate to make sure their military is suitably suppressed. Contact Sel Appa and tell them we are making them a temporary ally during this. What they did is not excuseable, but they don't deserve to be invaded," General Orbez said.

"Sir, which set of disruptors? The cannons or the torpedos?" Soylaba asked.

"Both," Orbez said.

~Electronic communication to Sel Appa~
We may not agree with what you have done, but you do not deserve to be invaded for it. We are temporary allies until this is over.
~End communication~

~Communication to Belem~
Hostile actions against Sel Appa will result in the destruction of your fleet. Further hostile actions after that will result in orbital bombardment of your military. If you wish to continue after that, we are authorized to suppress your militaristic ways as much as necessary to get you to stop.
-General Orbez
~End communication~

Sel Appa will never persecute Christians for any reason. However, several Earls want all Mormons deported ASAP.

In theory, all religions are peaceful, but Christians and Muslims tend to go to war a lot. You don't see Jews going on a crusade or jihad. They don't have many militant groups.

OOC: btw, I am really an atheistic jew. I think most jewish practices are great, but deny the existence of a god.

Sel Appa,

Barring a fundamental difference in the way Christianity is practiced in your nation, we have found no reason to believe it is oppressive. Therefore, while we won't condemn the action, we believe it overboard and unnecessary. We beg you to hold off destruction of their places of worship especially, as many will be old and of irreplacable value to your people's heritage. Indeed, you can only destroy something once.

Regards,
Jeff C Gorevomit, Slaytanicca

Sel Appa has allowed historical churches to become museums. Other churches can move out of the country. The Government will subsidize some costs on churches that cannot afford to move.

Your banning religion from public? No wonder the Anvorobuodians wanted to rebel! I don't blame them! If people want to leave your screwed up country so they can have churches, come the MrSparkleland. The immigrants will have full right to religion.

Sel Appa,

This is truly great news. We have absolutely no reason to critcize your decision, now you have clarified. Please accept our apologies for our previous ignorance and misunderstanding. Indeed, we will gladly help your nation should it become threatened.

Jeff C Gorevomit, Slaytanicca


OOC: We're currently mobilising forces. And why is this such an issue to some when tons of nations have outright bans on religions, including Christianity? OMG attack them!

Most Earls encourage Judaism or Islam, if you want a religion, yet all are atheist.

We plan no further action against any religion(except if the few anti-Mormon Earls get their way).

OOC: Including myself, there is a large minority of Christians on this site. However, I see no reason my personal beliefs should be forced on the citizens of my own nation, let alone other nations. In fact, the leader of my nation is an atheist (it's kinda hard to an android to worship the people who made him when they are dead...) and the majority of the people don't view religion as that important to get upset about. Thus, their natural action is to be concerned over someone banning the public belief in it, but to defend that person (who has done nothing they see as deserving of invasion) against another nation interfering.

The fleet is off the Sep Appa coast at an position approximately 500 miles away from the Demmahom district. The tasks force in the fleet(4 taskforces per fleet based around a carrier) are in tight spherical defensive formations to allow for the most coverage of CIWS systems on incoming attacks. ASW choppers are establishing a sonar buoy perimeter at a perimeter 50 miles out from the fleet.

Carriers are increasing the amount of planes in the air to 25% of the naval fighters with the fleet which is 192 fighters(Half F-40 Vampire a carrier launched version of the F-22 with some upgrades, and F-42 Tiger Sharks which the Belem version of the JSF fighter.)

The rest of the aircraft are being prepped to begin offensive operations.

OOC: Belem, think about this. Do you really want to risk losing those lives for this?

ooc: i was in wars over less.

OOC: Most wars don't involve myself and Siesatia involved. Unlike Siesatia, I won't hesitate to attack your nation's territory or, if you won't quit after losing your military, your major cities and going down from there.

ooc: and your talking to the guy who glassed 5 nations and a region and btw I dont acknowledge future tech.

OOC: you can't glass Sel Appa and still be sticking up for the Sel Appan Christians, as you'll be killing them. You'll have to resort to traditional war. And you'll have to try to avoid civilian deaths to avoid killing the people whose rights you're supposedly defending.

OOC: you can't glass Sel Appa and still be sticking up for the Sel Appan Christians, as you'll be killing them. You'll have to resort to traditional war. And you'll have to try to avoid civilian deaths to avoid killing the people whose rights you're supposedly defending.

Normal RPing doesn't apply to Belem.

OOC: you can't glass Sel Appa and still be sticking up for the Sel Appan Christians, as you'll be killing them. You'll have to resort to traditional war. And you'll have to try to avoid civilian deaths to avoid killing the people whose rights you're supposedly defending.


ooc: that was a threat to enigma actually when he talked about destroying cities.

ooc: and your talking to the guy who glassed 5 nations and a region and btw I dont acknowledge future tech.

OOC: Heh. Good luck on your missiles getting there. I'd love to see them try.

There has been a couple cases on here where someone tried to not acknowledge being attacked and ended up with their lack of acknowledging being ignored. Careful how you choose to RP this one and remember that even FT ships have problems with nukes.

Sel Appa- I wouldn't bother acknowledging the attacks in this case. He is not willing to acknowledge two people willing to help you, so I see no reason you need acknowledge him invading.

ooc: its because im under no obligation to recognize nations that wont exist in my timeline for the next 3000 years.

Christianity is banned, while all other religions are allowed to practice freely. This is bigotry and hypocrisy to the highest degree. The likes of which have not been seen since Nazi Germany. The people of Eudeminea strongly encourage you to reconsider. We will embargo all goods produced by your nation, and publicly welcome any Christian refugees from your nation and officially grant them political asylum.

ooc: its because im under no obligation to recognize nations that wont exist in my timeline for the next 3000 years.

OOC: Actually, timeline-wise the people of my nation predate Earth (this one, at least) by thousands of years, so they would be able to coexist with your nation and not be outside your timeline. You can consider this your first encounter with aliens.

Christianity is banned, while all other religions are allowed to practice freely. This is bigotry and hypocrisy to the highest degree. The likes of which have not been seen since Nazi Germany. The people of Eudeminea strongly encourage you to reconsider. We will embargo all goods produced by your nation, and publicly welcome any Christian refugees from your nation and officially grant them political asylum.

OOC: He didn't ban Christianity, just the public worship of it. People in his nation are allowed to still be Christians.

Please, people, don't think a public worship ban is equal to an outright ban.

OOC: Actually, timeline-wise the people of my nation predate Earth (this one, at least) by thousands of years, so they would be able to coexist with your nation and not be outside your timeline. You can consider this your first encounter with aliens.

no.

Good, MrSparkleland stands with Eudeminiea on this issue! Both MrSparkleland and Eudeminiea are both an assylum for those who want their rights respected.

OOC: He didn't ban Christianity, just the public worship of it. People in his nation are allowed to still be Christians.

Please, people, don't think a public worship ban is equal to an outright ban.

It is just as bad! It destroys the people's god given rights. Why can't their be churches or Christian music? This is discrimination against the people of Sel Appa!

no.

OOC: Still ain't going to prevent me from opening fire. In fact, I see a loophole you forgot.

IC:

"Sir, one of our ships seems to be having shield problems. Orders?" Soylaba asked.

"Damn. Since we're allies with Sel Appa and they are about to be invaded, give it to them for the duration of our alliance and welcome them to being a space race. We've already interfered with this enough to give everyone involved hints of what we can do and that we exist. Might as well give away technology as well," Orbez said.

It is just as bad! It destroys the people's god given rights. Why can't their be churches or Christian music? This is discrimination against the people of Sel Appa!

Little fact of life: The only right humanity shares as a whole is the right to die. Thus, I would say this does not contradict their God-given right. And we don't know enough about the internal goings-on of that nation to be a good judge of if this is discrimination against one group or part of a long campaign of forcing religion to be private.

OOC: LMAO!!! Oh my fuckin crap that was good! Oh, man.... ha ha

OOC: Still ain't going to prevent me from opening fire. In fact, I see a loophole you forgot.

IC:

"Sir, one of our ships seems to be having shield problems. Orders?" Soylaba asked.

"Damn. Since we're allies with Sel Appa and they are about to be invaded, give it to them for the duration of our alliance and welcome them to being a space race. We've already interfered with this enough to give everyone involved hints of what we can do and that we exist. Might as well give away technology as well," Orbez said.

ooc: ill just ignore you opening fire. Im not rping with someone who I cant reach there homeland because there in space.

And yeah just giving a nation advanced technology like that they wouldnt even be able to comprehend it. It would be like giving a caveman an M-16 its just to advanced for them to understand they might be able to use that 1 but wont be able to repair it or reproduce.

-OOC-
Just do what I did when I wanted to bitch slap a few Modern Techers while maintaining the Technology Gap.

Create Modern Tech (In my case, called Underpact) forces. Use your superior Future technology to quickly establish primative weapons systems, 21st century being quite primative compared to a lot of FT stuff, and start whoopin' ass.

And if they want to continue the war, they'll have to challenge your main forces. The Tech Gap/Tech Barrier doesn't apply if the Modern Techer is the one who challenges an FT nation. ^_^


But giving them a ship and making them a temporary Future Techer, allowing thier FT allies to help works too. ^_^

This is discrimination against the people of Sel Appa!
No, it only means that 1,400,000 people cannot have public worship.

ooc: ill just ignore you opening fire. Im not rping with someone who I cant reach there homeland because there in space.

And yeah just giving a nation advanced technology like that they wouldnt even be able to comprehend it. It would be like giving a caveman an M-16 its just to advanced for them to understand they might be able to use that 1 but wont be able to repair it or reproduce.

OOC: Actually, the ship includes schematics, mathematics, and etc. enough for a person to reproduce it in the databanks, as well as a tutoring program that can have anyone capable of flying a fighter jet using it with efficiency and making FTL jumps in just under an hour. The schematics are in case repairs on the scene are needed and the training program is because it saves money in military academies. Considering most of my actual tech is just post-modern and not truly FT, they should have no problems understanding it.

Oh, and those ships of mine are expensive. Shooting them down tends to set me behind in my production schedule and cost me money.

ooc: sep im going to create a war thread as not to clutter this one up. ill post link about half a second.

OOC: Actually, the ship includes schematics, mathematics, and etc. enough for a person to reproduce it in the databanks, as well as a tutoring program that can have anyone capable of flying a fighter jet using it with efficiency and making FTL jumps in just under an hour. The schematics are in case repairs on the scene are needed and the training program is because it saves money in military academies. Considering most of my actual tech is just post-modern and not truly FT, they should have no problems understanding it.

Oh, and those ships of mine are expensive. Shooting them down tends to set me behind in my production schedule and cost me money.

still its a huge technology gap to comprehend that would be like giving davinci the schematics to a computer and saying "go build one" you have to have the manufactory already set up to produce prerequisite parts

still its a huge technology gap to comprehend that would be like giving davinci the schematics to a computer and saying "go build one" you have to have the manufactory already set up to produce prerequisite parts

OOC: True. I had problems with reproducing FT ships myself when I was younger (including losing an attempt to produce a ground factory...). It'll take years for a person, even with all of the data necessary to do so, to build the factories needed. Thus, part of why this is only a temporary thing.

here is the war thread sel http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7603030#post7603030

No, it only means that 1,400,000 people cannot have public worship.

which is discrimination against those 1,400,000 people! Your nation is what librals want to do to people here in The United States, they want religon banned from public buildings. They even want "In god we trust" taken off the dollar. I don't want to live in that world!

which is discrimination against those 1,400,000 people! Your nation is what librals want to do to people here in The United States, they want religon banned from public buildings. They even want "In god we trust" taken off the dollar. I don't want to live in that world!


OOC: Please mark OOC comments with a an "OOC." And also, liberals do not care if you pray in public, we just don't think the government should favor any religion. Remember, "In God We Trust" was not always on money, it was added during the cold war, just like "under god," in the pledge, to differentiate ourselves from "godless communism." If you want to continue this debate, I suggest you IM me, my screen name is BassistSartori. Now, let's get back to the thread, shall we?

IC: Callisdrun implores Sel Appa to take a more moderate course than banning public worship of their christian population.

Callisdrun also condemns Belem for being an international bully.

It is pending whether Mormonism may be fully banned(refugees may leave if they wish).I hope it is not. Such an action would not be welcomed warmly in Nianacio.
In practice, it is quite violent, as the great numbers of our citizens who were burned at the stake for heresy when Altar Rang invaded could tell you if they were still alive. In theory, Christianity is a compassionate religion. In practice, it is more warlike than our ancient pagan one (which is by no means peaceful).Nianacio, while having a very religious citizenry, has never gone to war for religious reasons.
OOC: Well, not in the past hundred years, at least...I'm not sure how long Nianacio has been peaceful.

ooc: its because im under no obligation to recognize nations that wont exist in my timeline for the next 3000 years.

If you are 2004, than I will excist in about 140 years. Not too far off. And, Sel Appa, if he does not want to acnowledge 2 allies to help you, ignore his sorry ass.

The Honorable Michel Saint-Michel, President-Elect of the Catholic Republic of New Avignon, on behalf of the National Assembly and the people of our nation:
We are saddened at the decision of the Earls of Sel Appa to restrict the public practice of Christianity. On behalf of our people I invite any Christian, or any member of any other religion, or anyone without religion, who cannot abide the current conditions in Sel Appa, to come to
New Avignon. We are in spirit a Catholic nation, guiding our public policy by the precepts of the Holy Catholic Church, but our laws guarantee nearly complete freedom of religious practice to all. Most of our people are Catholic
but we have sizable numbers of Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists, and we welcome immigrants who are willing to make a positive contribution to our society.

OOC: i just found this, never read the other posts, only saw the title, lol

IC:
Vasp Principles is greatly disturbed by this Discrimination, although VP is mainly Christian we do allow almost any other religion other than those which the public say are morally unsound and ask to ban!

Therefore we would like to ask Sel Appa to let all christians leave their nation, we would be more than willing to offer them homes and jobs in our nation, or we would be willing to have them temporily stay before they can set up their own "christian" nation such as Israel is the "jewish" nation.

OOC: Actually, the ship includes schematics, mathematics, and etc. enough for a person to reproduce it in the databanks, as well as a tutoring program that can have anyone capable of flying a fighter jet using it with efficiency and making FTL jumps in just under an hour. The schematics are in case repairs on the scene are needed and the training program is because it saves money in military academies. Considering most of my actual tech is just post-modern and not truly FT, they should have no problems understanding it.

Oh, and those ships of mine are expensive. Shooting them down tends to set me behind in my production schedule and cost me money.

Are you saying that a modern tech nation is going into future tech? Thats not do-able, its is S**T RP! i mean, a nation in 2004 could not suddenly have a nation in 3122 give them a massive ship, unless that nation is also in the space age...and if thats wrong why would a nation in 3122 be using modern tech weapons...?

OOC: I see a lot of argument between future-tech and modern-tech nations over whether the FT's should be allowed to RP against Modern-Tech nations using their Future-Technology. While I don’t think Belem should just ignore DLE, I do feel that the RP would be a little more fair if the Future-Techs were more willing to play using only Modern-Technology. It is fairly pointless for Belem to get involved in this war if DLE is just going to glass him/her/it from orbit. It will be fairly pointless for me to get involved in the war on Sel Appa’s side if all the rest of his/her allies are using Uber-Troopers from 25000 AD.

I’m just suggesting that the RP will be more fun if we’re all on the same level.

IC:

Official Ultimatum

Withdraw your fleet or we will destroy it by any means necessary. It is not your business to determine Sel Appa’s laws for them, and we will see to it that you do not make it so. You have forty-eight hours to comply.

Secret Missive to DLE:

We have a few hundred archaic ICBMs we don't know what to do with (Special Offers are weird sometimes). We would be willing to let you... utilize these weapons for a minimal concession.

Trading rights, blah blah blah, raw materials yakkitty smakkitty, don't find us we'll find you so on so forth... (which would be a good idea for an RP since you're in a supposedly un-mappable region of space, although Balrogga is already taking a peg at it)

Are you saying that a modern tech nation is going into future tech? Thats not do-able, its is S**T RP! i mean, a nation in 2004 could not suddenly have a nation in 3122 give them a massive ship, unless that nation is also in the space age...and if thats wrong why would a nation in 3122 be using modern tech weapons...?

OOC: Actually, my nation exists in the equivolent of the modern era. It comes from a totally different planet quite a ways away and the original empires predate this Earth. Timeline-wise, I'm around Earth 2020 or so. My nation uses an entirely different system of counting the years and our months are not in sync with Earth's. I've made mention before of how they have to convert their timescale to Earth's. Keep in mind I'm not from Earth at all and hold so settlements there.

And, if I wish to give them tech, that is between me and them whether they accept it.

[b]OOC: I see a lot of argument between future-tech and modern-tech nations over whether the FT's should be allowed to RP against Modern-Tech nations using their Future-Technology. While I don’t think Belem should just ignore DLE, I do feel that the RP would be a little more fair if the Future-Techs were more willing to play using only Modern-Technology. It is fairly pointless for Belem to get involved in this war if DLE is just going to glass him/her/it from orbit. It will be fairly pointless for me to get involved in the war on Sel Appa’s side if all the rest of his/her allies are using Uber-Troopers from 25000 AD.

I’m just suggesting that the RP will be more fun if we’re all on the same level.

OOC: Have you even looked up how big my ships are? We're talking twelve-person ships that are referred to as cramped. And for me to glass Belem will take weeks of firing and warfare. I'm not a big nation and my ships are far from being huge.

But, if it comes down to it, I can just drop my troops off somewhere and take up Godular's offer. Look up my store to get an idea of personal arms.

Are you saying that a modern tech nation is going into future tech? Thats not do-able, its is S**T RP! i mean, a nation in 2004 could not suddenly have a nation in 3122 give them a massive ship, unless that nation is also in the space age...and if thats wrong why would a nation in 3122 be using modern tech weapons...?

-OOC-
You're forgetting how badly NS physics sodomize time. Basically, years are meaningless.

The Federation of IPsec, humbly requests that Belem and Pel Appa begin negotiations to resolve this conflict. While the Federation does not condone the actions of Pel Appa, we do understand the right to self governance without outside interference. With that in mind however, we would strongly urge the government of Pel Appa to reconsider their decision or at least make it an all inclusive decision, so as to encompass the banning of ALL public religion.


Should Pel Appa decline the suggestions of The Federation, we as a devoutly religious nation, would feel compelled to act in the form of economic aid to Belem.

OOC: I see a lot of argument between future-tech and modern-tech nations over whether the FT's should be allowed to RP against Modern-Tech nations using their Future-Technology. While I don’t think Belem should just ignore DLE, I do feel that the RP would be a little more fair if the Future-Techs were more willing to play using only Modern-Technology. It is fairly pointless for Belem to get involved in this war if DLE is just going to glass him/her/it from orbit. It will be fairly pointless for me to get involved in the war on Sel Appa’s side if all the rest of his/her allies are using Uber-Troopers from 25000 AD.

I’m just suggesting that the RP will be more fun if we’re all on the same level.

IC:

Official Ultimatum

Withdraw your fleet or we will destroy it by any means necessary. It is not your business to determine Sel Appa’s laws for them, and we will see to it that you do not make it so. You have forty-eight hours to comply.

IC: The blockade will remain until his government overturns all rulings on the banning of Christainity.

OOC: 2 quick things 1. what type of naval assets do you have in the area?
2. the actual war part of the thread is going to be conducted in the war thread so put all future posts there. thanks.
Link: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthrea...030#post7603030

No, it only means that 1,400,000 people cannot have public worship.

OOC:
And how is that not discrimination you fool?

Also if you are going to single out mormans, you might look into the actual name for their church.

OOC:Also if you are going to single out mormans, you might look into the actual name for their church.Well, there is more than one church within the "Mormon" category...if he bans a specific one though, I hope he doesn't refer to it as "the Mormon Church".

OOC: i just found this, never read the other posts, only saw the title, lol

OOC: Then why did you even bother posting? Don't judge a book by its cover.

Also if you are going to single out mormans, you might look into the actual name for their church.
1. I don't need to look up the words "The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints."
2. Also if you are going to single out people who don't want to waste time spelling out a whole name, you might look into the actual spelling for their shortened name. MORMON!

It's a few radicals who are anti-Mormon that want it.

Sel Appa,

An initial force of 40,000 troops, 120 MBTs and accompanying support and logistics vehicles has been sent via IL-76 to protect your interest, escorted by 20 MiG-29s. Two fleets of the Slaytaniccan navy are currently en-route, bearing marines and ABM launchers. We pledge to aid you in any way we can against this unwarranted aggression.

Regards,
Jeff C Gorevomit, Slaytanicca


OOC: How fast can my fleets get there? Maybe I can telefrag Belem..

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=378181

can you post all troop deployments in the war thread.

thanks.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=378181

can you post all troop deployments in the war thread.

thanks.
OOC: Sure dude, I was waiting to see if Sel Appa accepted my aid, plus it says "Invite Only" in your thread. Sorry for my mistake, I'll deploy them there now.

just put the invite only there to prevent random people from coming in and going "I ATTACK!"

just put the invite only there to prevent random people from coming in and going "I ATTACK!"OOC: Aaah, alright, ta mate!

OOC: I do not acknowledge Belem's "attack" and the rest of you should too.

way to be a noob and can't accept consquences for your actions.

way to be a noob and can't accept consquences for your actions.

OOC: Way to be a n00b and only ever attack significantly smaller nations who have little or no chance of doing anything to stop you. I think I saw one almost identical to this one about a month or two ago... Sel Appa is right to ignore it, if you ask me. There's a difference between 'RPing' and 'only being in it to win'.

I go to war with plenty of nations my size. those result in draws. I was at war with Soviet Bloc for awhile.

And If I was godmodding I wouldnt of allowed Nianacio into the RP, or Slaytanicca.

-OOC-

Go ahead and accept that he's attacking, but demand that Future Techers are allowed in otherwise the RP will be ignored.

DLE and I will take care of him.

Don't forget the few hundred ICBMs I can loan to DLE... I modded them for orbital launch.

Whether Enigma wants 'em loaded up with Death Confetti or conventional explosives should prolly be worked out beforehand, though.

What about catholicism? FYI-It's not a form of christianity, christianity is a form of it.

-OOC-

Go ahead and accept that he's attacking, but demand that Future Techers are allowed in otherwise the RP will be ignored.

DLE and I will take care of him.

*poke* HEY!

What about catholicism? FYI-It's not a form of christianity, christianity is a form of it.Catholicism, while it can be used to refer to all of Christianity, usually refers to a certain branch of it (at least in my experience).

OOC:
What about catholicism? FYI-It's not a form of christianity, christianity is a form of it.

Christianity was formed sometime around 50 CE. At that time, there was only one type and everyone had to listen to the church in Rome, or else. With the invention of Gutenberg's(sp) printing press, it enabled ideas to spread faster, so Martin Luther was able to break off from what had become Catholicism. He formed Protestantism, which it self split into many branches.

Catholicism is always Christianity, but Christianity is not always Catholicism.
A square is always a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square.

If Belem wants to start a war over a religion, he only proves my point further. Therefore, I do not acknowledge his action figure playset as a real war.

you know that makes no sense. Because Im proving your point as I play a Theocracy nation and always have and had religious wars in the past you won't RP a war with me because of that. Yet you start an open RP to antagonize the people who roleplay as Religious nations and then refuse to accept the consequences of said action.

We banned Christianity because they like to go to war. You want to force us to do something that infringes on NOTHING. You as a Christian nation just prove our point that Christians just like to start wars.

I suggest you stop thinking you invaded us, or perhaps we will discriminate against Christians. And break the UN Resolution at vote.

Hm... you do realise Belem that with this being freeform he can pretty much ignore what he likes for whatever reason he likes, and given that your wars have a habit of getting out of hand, or resulting in you using nuclear weapons and tend to be dull as you argue how much you should and would own him.

Yeah, I think I can understand why he wants to ignore it. It's dull to RP in that scenario and what is nationstates other then entertainment? To be forced into some poorly roleplayed war over such a shitty reason is dull to some people.

So I would suggest that seeing as he doesn't want to have a war against you and he won't accept a war against you, you should ignore him and move on. Failing that I would suggest that he gets a mod to close the thread once and for all.

To: The leader of Sel Appa
From: President Holtz of Holy Paradise
Sub: End the ban
Please, I ask you with all of my being, re-allow Christianity in your country. Most Christians are peaceful. The ones that cause the wars are not true Christians. If you still won't, I ask you, just read a little bit of the Bible. The Lord never wants Christians to start wars, only defend themselves(not saying Belem is in the right by doing this). The Lord is good, Christianity is good. Its just a few of the followers who do the bad things. Thank you.

To: The leader of Sel Appa
From: President Holtz of Holy Paradise
Sub: End the ban
Please, I ask you with all of my being, re-allow Christianity in your country. Most Christians are peaceful. The ones that cause the wars are not true Christians. If you still won't, I ask you, just read a little bit of the Bible. The Lord never wants Christians to start wars, only defend themselves(not saying Belem is in the right by doing this). The Lord is good, Christianity is good. Its just a few of the followers who do the bad things. Thank you.

OOC: You do realize that you are talking about a guy who, in the OT, actually ordered and commited genocide multiple times, right? If you're going to make that case, recommend the NT for reading. Otherwise, you plop a mountain of evidence against what you are saying in his lap.

OOC: You do realize that you are talking about a guy who, in the OT, actually ordered and commited genocide multiple times, right? If you're going to make that case, recommend the NT for reading. Otherwise, you plop a mountain of evidence against what you are saying in his lap.
you're right. Well, Christianity is unique for the New testament so he'd probably read that.

you're right. Well, Christianity is unique for the New testament so he'd probably read that.

OOC: Kinda hard to tell which is unique and which isn't at a glance. Besides, most people start reading at the front of the book.

OOC: You do realize that you are talking about a guy who, in the OT, actually ordered and commited genocide multiple times, right? If you're going to make that case, recommend the NT for reading. Otherwise, you plop a mountain of evidence against what you are saying in his lap.
OOC: Exodus is gold :)

OOC: I only know the Old Testament and several parts are not true:
Egypt hoohah
Flood
Adam and Eve

OOC:
Adam and Eve

-OOC-
Oh, I just cite that to say that Christians are inbred. ^_^


Belem, you want a war? Fine.

Earthfall Island will begin... "removing" Christians. However, if you pull anything in bad RP, such as hundreds of nukes or one line attack posts or claiming creative/sneaky/underhanded tactics won't work, and I'll take it as an invitation for the Zircon Hive Master (FT) controlling the leadership of the island to sweep in and give his "pet" a hand. (Or claw, rather.)

Go in, fight, and leave.