NationStates Jolt Archive

http://img16.exs.cx/img16/416/riw18.jpg
RIW-18
RSMG (Rotary SubMachineGun)

Calibre: 5x30mm
Action: Tension Spring Rotary, Gas Pin-Push
Weight: 6.2kg loaded
Firing Modes: Safety, Fully Automatic(1600 rpm)
Magazine Capacity: 250 rounds
Muzzle Velocity: 1000m/s
Maximum Effective Range: 400 meters

Designed to fulfill the almost forgotten role the SMG filled in WW2, the RIW-18 provides a deadly close range weapon intended to support riflemen. While apparantly small and ineffective, the 5x30mm shell fits the gun like a glove, providing a low-weight, high-velocity bullet with excellent terminal ballistics vs. body armor. A single shot of the 5x30mm would be the equivalent of being shot by say, a .22, but a swarm of them impacting the same area will tear anyone to shreds better than even a shotgun. The gun, even with its huge firing rate, is very comfortable to fire, having a completely smooth and controllable recoil, and as a result maintains a superb accuracy. Its bullpup design lets it maneuver easily in tight spaces, and it comes standard with suppressors for its 3 barrels so it won't destroy your soldiers hearing or give away their position as easily. The 250 round boxes of ammo are only about as heavy as 1.5 30 round magazines like those of the M-16 allowing a soldier to theoretically carry more than a thousand bullets! And lets not forget that each magazine gives a soldier almost 10 seconds of firing, amazing for laying down covering fire! The inner mechanisms are very simple, and just like an HK G36, it lacks a direct gas feed from the barrel. The RIW-18 could be used instead of an assault rifle by a military, but it should be noted that its performance versus vehicle armor is very poor. The RIW-18 has a removeable foregrip that can be exchanged for most underbarrel grenade launchers, a bayonet lug, and a standard picatinny rail for mounting optics on its combination iron-sights/carrying handle.

Price: $900 per unit

(ooc: Say it with me now; miniminigun)

http://img16.exs.cx/img16/416/riw18.jpg
RIW-18
RSMG (Rotary SubMachineGun)

Calibre: 5x30mm
Action: Tension Spring Rotary, Gas Pin-Push
Weight: 6.2kg loaded
Firing Modes: Safety, Fully Automatic(1600 rpm)
Magazine Capacity: 250 rounds
Muzzle Velocity: 1000m/s
Maximum Effective Range: 400 meters

Designed to fulfill the almost forgotten role the SMG filled in WW2, the RIW-18 provides a deadly close range weapon intended to support riflemen. While apparantly small and ineffective, the 5x30mm shell fits the gun like a glove, providing a low-weight, high-velocity bullet with excellent terminal ballistics vs. body armor. A single shot of the 5x30mm would be the equivalent of being shot by say, a .22, but a swarm of them impacting the same area will tear anyone to shreds better than even a shotgun. The gun, even with its huge firing rate, is very comfortable to fire, having a completely smooth and controllable recoil, and as a result maintains a superb accuracy. Its bullpup design lets it maneuver easily in tight spaces, and it comes standard with suppressors for its 3 barrels so it won't destroy your soldiers hearing or give away their position as easily. The 250 round boxes of ammo are only about as heavy as 1.5 30 round magazines like those of the M-16 allowing a soldier to theoretically carry more than a thousand bullets! And lets not forget that each magazine gives a soldier almost 10 seconds of firing, amazing for laying down covering fire! The inner mechanisms are very simple, and just like an HK G36, it lacks a direct gas feed from the barrel. The RIW-18 could be used instead of an assault rifle by a military, but it should be noted that its performance versus vehicle armor is very poor. The RIW-18 has a removeable foregrip that can be exchanged for most underbarrel grenade launchers, a bayonet lug, and a standard picatinny rail for mounting optics on its combination iron-sights/carrying handle.

Price: $900 per unit

(ooc: Say it with me now; miniminigun)

OOC: Pretty much fine, but I doubt that thing has an effective range of more than 100m. To hold that much ammo in a lught box, the bullets have to be small. Since the round is already 5x30mm, the casing couldn't be very long. From the picture, the barrel doesn't look very long either. While its small diameter helps its range, 5.56mm rounds have a tendency to tumble after a short distance, and a smaller 5x30mm would probably have it even worse.

If it would be possible to fit a solid shell in and increase the effective range and reliability. Notquiteaplace may be interested in offering you a contract for the development of this weapon into something our lighter battlesuits could mount. With the option of running from two ammo buckets, one with each ammo type.


Perhaps $1.2 billion for the design and supply of plans and a license available to Notquiteaplace only. We would be willing to offer this for such a weapons.

OOC: Basically we would like a variant with much longer range(250m+), solid shell firing capabilities, and the option to change the bucket the weapon is fed from at the flick of a switch, even if motors are used for it. It all has to be extremely reliable. It can weigh up to 20Kg of the original if it meets these parameters, and buck size should be at the user's discretion. As we could feed it from a bucket we would like ammo per cunib foot specifications.

IC: We would also pay $500million for the license to make these weapons ourselves for our paratroopers and non armoured infantry, though we would pay an additonal $500million if you could develope a longer ranged one. Smaller magazines would be acceptable for both of our requests. This variant could weigh up to 7.5Kg. We would only use these in small numbers for a limited number of ops.

If the caliber needs changing we also wouldnt mind.

We offer a bonus of $1bn if you can complete both projects and exceed our requirements by a large margin, particularly range.

Chellis: Thats about the gist of it, the effective range is that high because of its high velocity and the barrel is longer than you think because it is bullpup. The tumbling of 5.56 is a result of many side factors which can be easily corrected for(but aren't in that case because it gives it more stopping power), which we do because tumbling isn't needed in them.

Notquiteaplace: By solid shell do you mean a solid projectile(it already is, although hollowpoints are possible, this isn't a shotgun if you thought it was...) or caseless(it'll make the guns cost a bit more), in either case, its quite possible. The dual feed is also easily possible, a system for it was made in the prototype stages. The reliability of these weapons is fantastic owing to their wholly simple mechanisms. With higher power charges and longer barrels we could increase the range to about that far, but no farther without going over your 10kg limit. The $1 billion is a deal and we ask $700 million for the license.

OOC: I made a few edits as chellis replied while I wrote. However either way our parameters are a bit easier now. We meant solid projectile, as we would like something capable of piercing the armour of basic powered armour in varieties varying from motor augmented nearly bullet proof armour, to walking armour (of the extremely light variety) battlesuits which can resist smaller shells. However we are not future tech or godmoding and a solid slug at short range will still have a good chance if killing even a heavy battlesuit. We want weapons for the lighter battlesuits to be able to decimate the armour and be able to attack larger suits. (suits are the large ones, armour is the personnel grade stuff which still has weaknesses to conventional bullets at the joints and eyes)

IC: In this case, We accept, though we would like to see the specifications of these weapons. We should offer a bonus if your claims are accurate. And our thanks also. Money will be wired on confirmation of these specs (OOC: when you post them and they are definately good), the bonus will be wired once we have seen them and judged.

The Army of Juosh would like to purchase 1,000,000 of these for a total of 900,000,000. The Money will be wired upon confirmation. Thank You.

Major General Achmed Sanchez

(ooc:OMFG DAMIT I HAD THIS ALL TYPED UP THEN I ACCIDENTALLY DELETED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!11)

Notquiteaplace: If you are willing to pay for more expensive ammo(and I guess you could afford it, having battle armor etc. in combat use), we can defer you to the flechette version of the weapon we developed(which we are using in another upcoming unit, but I digress...)

RIW-18 Flechette Model

Calibre: 5x40mm (Flechette; 1.25x35mm)
Action: Tension Spring Rotary, Gas Pin-Push
Weight: 7.3kg loaded
Firing Modes: Safety, Fully Automatic(1600 rpm)
Magazine Capacity: 250 rounds
Muzzle Velocity: 1400m/s
Flechette Velocity at 600m: 900m/s
Maximum Effective Range: ?500 meters?(really hard to say with all the variables like multiple impacts and angles)

Similar to the standard RIW-18, the only diffference in this model is the ammunition; a special discarding sabot flechette round, similar to those tested by Steyr in the latter half of the 20th century. This cartridge has simple, cylindrically shaped plastic case with a standard extraction groove. The flechette is totally enclosed in the case and priming compound is located annually at the inside wall of it.

Cubic foot ammo capacity will be around 280 rounds to 300 rounds as the size of the container increases(allowing for more space with the same thickness of walls). Prolonged firing will require the occaisional recocking of the gun's tension spring, extremely prolonged firing(thousands of rounds) will result in overheating(albeit at around a third the rate of a single-barreled weapon) but will not result in cookoff since the mechanism doesn't allow for it.

Juosh: Confirmed, the weapons will ship immediately.

meh just use that RL 6 barrel 5.56mm microgun :p

That would weigh 38lbs with the same ammo capacity because of its batteries and engines and chainfeeds.........

Well we here at The Phoenix Milita pay no mind to weight, as all of our soldiers are required to bench press 270 pounds and curl 90 pounds in order to join !!!!!


:D :p :fluffle: :D ;)

EDIT: by the way i think the gun, motor, battery and 500 shots weigh like 45 lbs

EDIT2: by the way, most personal body armor would be able to stop your 5x30mm round with ease.

Yep, all that does only weigh 45lbs, but the ammo only accounts for 14 lbs of it, sad......... And I think you're wrong about the armor penetration values, because these bullets are designed in line with the concept of PDW bullets like the FN 5.7 which can go through a PASGT helmet or 48 layers of kevlar, at something like 250-300m.

This is one of those threads that goes bump in the night.........

I am grateful for the fact that you would supply me with some RIW-18 RSMGs to help me protect my nation from oncoming invaders.

(ooc:OMFG DAMIT I HAD THIS ALL TYPED UP THEN I ACCIDENTALLY DELETED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!11)

Notquiteaplace: If you are willing to pay for more expensive ammo(and I guess you could afford it, having battle armor etc. in combat use), we can defer you to the flechette version of the weapon we developed(which we are using in another upcoming unit, but I digress...)

RIW-18 Flechette Model

Calibre: 5x40mm (Flechette; 1.25x35mm)
Action: Tension Spring Rotary, Gas Pin-Push
Weight: 7.3kg loaded
Firing Modes: Safety, Fully Automatic(1600 rpm)
Magazine Capacity: 250 rounds
Muzzle Velocity: 1400m/s
Flechette Velocity at 600m: 900m/s
Maximum Effective Range: ?500 meters?(really hard to say with all the variables like multiple impacts and angles)

Similar to the standard RIW-18, the only diffference in this model is the ammunition; a special discarding sabot flechette round, similar to those tested by Steyr in the latter half of the 20th century. This cartridge has simple, cylindrically shaped plastic case with a standard extraction groove. The flechette is totally enclosed in the case and priming compound is located annually at the inside wall of it.

Cubic foot ammo capacity will be around 280 rounds to 300 rounds as the size of the container increases(allowing for more space with the same thickness of walls). Prolonged firing will require the occaisional recocking of the gun's tension spring, extremely prolonged firing(thousands of rounds) will result in overheating(albeit at around a third the rate of a single-barreled weapon) but will not result in cookoff since the mechanism doesn't allow for it.

Juosh: Confirmed, the weapons will ship immediately.

OOC: A frightening economy with 1.1+ billion people and military as high government priority. Plus we ha ve a small elite military with less than 2 million front line troops including airforce and our huge navy. About 4 mill including logistics. Anyway the point is we are rich and have an elite army. So yes, considering that the suits cost about $1million to $3million (well the ones im fitting with this weapons) the weaponnand ammo costs are by the by really. Though technically we havent done any of this until after the civil war finishes.

Oh and as for the sabot idea, those were the main weapon of our larger suits in 30mm form. Though their cannon boast impressive range and penetration and rate of fire, they are also about three times as heavy. So will be mounted on heavy suits while the smaller ones use your weapon.

We will work out some sort of automatic recocking system, or even one that the suit weaer on the battlesuits can activate easily. It will be part of the suit however, not the weapon.

IC: Notquiteaplace is very very impressed we will wire you a total bonus of $1.3bn making a total of $3bn for this weapon. It will be put into service on several models of powered battlesuits and the powered armour (OOC: makes up the bulk of my infantry) will have this with both ammo types available as an option.

Thank you, it has been good doing business with you.

Matthew Dodd Minister for defence

So basically, this is just a p90 with a 250 round box.....

I don't see what this has to do with shot guns :confused:

Shubo: Consider it nothing, we see it as a humanitarian effort that needs no thanks.

Notquiteaplace: Confirmed, it has been a pleasure giving the people of your nation a few more degrees of safety.

The American Alliance: You could put it that way, but the difference in ammo and firing rate makes it a totally different weapon in practice. The reason I compared it to shotguns is simple; it surpasses them in functionality. Shotguns offer limited, heavy ammo, poor armor penetration, poor range, and almost no supressing fire ability. This is like a trench shotgun for the 21st century, and so much more.....

*Sileetris Royal Guard Division elite soldiers spray Billanova for a complete ten minutes, resulting in a large pile of shell casings and a thin film of blood beneath a thick layer of compacted slugs*

bump

OOC: Nice work on this, I like to see original gun designs.

In response to the talk of PAGST, the FN 5.7mm can puncture through even CRISAT at 300 meters.

And, in regards to shotguns, the Shottie and the SMG fill similar CQC roles in modern battle.

(While I wouldn't dispute that there's still a minor place for the sub-machinegun in modern warfare and domestic security, I don't think that it's the same as it was in WWII... before the assault rifle existed (I know, but a handful of them in the dying days hardly count). Surely a decent compact assault rifle does everything this does, and given the reputed range of this, it does almost everything an assault rifle does, not a shotgun. Ah well, I'm sure it's still a viable weapon. Lavrageria will just use an AK-47.)

OOC: Chellis uses the American-180, personally. 270 round magazines(barrel), .22 short magnum rounds, 1800 rpm, etc. Rips through pretty much anything it comes against.

OOC: Holy god! I didn't realize they had upped it! Going through all this I see the 275rd one actually weighs less(44oz) than the 177rd one(57oz), meaning my gun could easily hold more(I was estimating based on the old mag and now realize it was a heavy piece of metal, not the actual rounds, that accounted for a good deal of weight), and for the weight I've posted, much more, like 350 rounds. If I do change it, should I also up the firing rate like they did? Being a semi-gatling type weapon this could fire tons faster......

Seriously, Whats with the shotgun thing? i see nothing about shotguns...
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I'm calling them outdated, this weapon could replace them in SWAT teams and bunker-clearing operations with more effectiveness. Basically I'm saying if you're still using shotguns, you're behind the times.

In which you'd be wrong, shotguns are still more effective for tasks like shooting locks off doors or anything involving horrendous close-range stopping power, or, hell, shooting minigrenades. And shotguns would be cheaper, simpler to produce and easier to maintain, as well as using single cartridges to do the job this thingy takes dozens of rounds to.

In which you'd be wrong, shotguns are still more effective for tasks like shooting locks off doors or anything involving horrendous close-range stopping power, or, hell, shooting minigrenades. And shotguns would be cheaper, simpler to produce and easier to maintain, as well as using single cartridges to do the job this thingy takes dozens of rounds to.
And lets not forget, shooting geese :D


:sniper:

GMC: Thats what underbarrel breeching shotguns are for; a single task like that doesn't justify an entire weapon. Shotguns still have no body armor penetration power. And mini-grenades launched from shotguns are inconvenient; they need to be loaded in at the time you want to fire them(impossible in clip-fed auto-shotties) and they bring up the problem of being caught with one in the barrel when you really need buckshot(point-blank grenades aren't fun), plus they can't arc or roll like thrown minigrenades. The ability to lay down suppressing fire is also lackluster, even in auto-shotties because of the limited ammo and sharp recoil. To top it all off, this can be(and is) suppressed making it hard for an enemy to detect. So lets compare:

Armor Piercing:
RIW-18: Yes..........Shotgun: No

Suppressing fire ability:
RIW-18: Yes..........Shotgun: No

Stopping Power:
Equal or greater in favor of RIW-18 because of continued firing(Imagine a man in powered armor)

Longer range abilities:
RIW-18: Yes..........Shotgun: No

Suppressed barrel:
RIW-18: Yes..........Shotgun: No

Doorbusting:
Attach an underbarrel shotgun to the RIW-18's front position.

Minigrenades:
Same underbarrel shotgun if you think they're necessary.

And as for the complaints about the reliability, cost etc. Consider.......
Everything in the gun(besides the below VVV near frictionless carbon) is easily produced in molds and assembled by machine, but could be done in any decent workshop by hand......
There are no complex, fragile, or tightly functioning parts(EG open gas systems)......
The moving parts require no lubricant and would take many, many years to wear out because they are coated in Near Frictionless Carbon(new stuff, exists irl and will be used on an industrial scale within ten years, when tested it stood up to 17.5 million passes of a steel ball which left a small streak and the testing machine wore out).......

The Pheonix Militia: You mean to say you wouldn't like to see a flock of geese machine-gunned out of the air?

Yes I would, and spell my name right will you, its not hard :(

Armor Piercing:
RIW-18: Yes..........Shotgun: No
Shotguns can fire Armor Piercing Slugs :)


Doorbusting:
Attach an underbarrel shotgun to the RIW-18's front position.
I thought you said the RIW makes the shotgun OBSOLETE :confused:

Minigrenades:
Same underbarrel shotgun if you think they're necessary.
ditto

Sorry bout the name thing, I always pronounce it militia in my head so I spelled it that way :(

Armor piercing slugs that have a huge kick and none of the spread that makes it so fun to use in close range. And flechette shells aren't good for door busting.

Obsolete as a main weapon, for special purposes its fine. Its like how we still use prop planes for reconnaisance instead of dogfighting.

I just use a .8 gauge shotgun as a secondary weapon (under the AR-22, above the Street Cleaner, etc:)

btw i was refering to the "Pheonix" spelling :P

You've given me dyslexia, I hope you're happy!

<paraphrase>Shotguns are outdated and antiquated.</paraphrase>

Not necessarily... observe my "postmodern" take on the combat shotgun, the Sag Assault Shotgun (ASG) (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/SAG_ASG#Sag_Assault_Shotgun_.28ASG.29).

I'll admit that is a fine weapon(probably the best a shotgun can get), but it still only has 24 shots standard, requires a special slug for AP work, and probably(it would be hard to engineer) doesn't have the ability to load one of those specialty shells in when you need it: What happens when you really need to use a Dragonfire shell but you've got a magazine of buckshot loaded? Do you just smush it into the ejection port as the shell already in the chamber is forced back into the magazine?

With 250rds to work with, its possible to easily kill someone with just a tap of the trigger, sending maybe 10 bullets their way in half a second, even though they are small pistol bullets that could be fatal or debilitating in only 2 shots. The trigger on this could be modified to fire a 4 shot burst when pulled slightly before going to full-auto, a shotgun fires 1 shell no matter how overkill it is.

Given the practicality of this weapon in straight-out shooting, a shotgun only has specialty shells going for it as a bonus. And an underbarrel shotgun could use all the specialty shells yours has(excepting maybe sabot but the primary mode of this gun covers long range and AP engagements already).

(You're needlers kick tremendous ass btw)

The weapon as described is a [very] llight machine gun. Marketing it as a competitor to shotguns hits you against the brick wall of a shotgun's lack of complexity in comparison [and hence vastly lower cost with comparible machinery] and cheaper ammo. And, um, if you have to sling a shotgun under it, you've hardly replaced it...

There is great debate here from our engineers and design teams,specifically the weapons effectiveness range and the weapons ability to cool itself.Therefore the Holy Republic will only require 100 units at this time for testing.The RIW-18 has a promising design and seems well suited to Brendanberias Maritime forces and perhaps special operations....Needless to say we are intigued.The amount and the shipping costs will be wired upon further notice ...Thank you
Respectfully Col.Xavier Powers 3rd Engineering Division Holy Republican Marines

GMC: Well, I guess its just a matter of having better performance or lower cost then. And I've been saying, the only reason you'd keep underbarrel shotguns is for special purposes, because this is better at actual combat.

Brendanberia: We will give you 100 to test for free. You'll find it is very, very hard to overheat since it fires small bullets and has three barrels. The effective range is a result of the high speed projectile from a long barrel, with several impacts on the target(similar to how an M-16s effective range is around 600m while it can technically hit to almost 1000m)

OOC: Someone at 950m "hey! did you just touch my arse?"
Another person at 950m replies, "nope, but theres some guy with a gun over there."

GMC: Well, I guess its just a matter of having better performance or lower cost then. And I've been saying, the only reason you'd keep underbarrel shotguns is for special purposes, because this is better at actual combat.

Brendanberia: We will give you 100 to test for free. You'll find it is very, very hard to overheat since it fires small bullets and has three barrels. The effective range is a result of the high speed projectile from a long barrel, with several impacts on the target(similar to how an M-16s effective range is around 600m while it can technically hit to almost 1000m)
Thank You for the considerate gesture...We would like to take possesion ASAP ...Our engineers are eager to stress test this item...Due to the nature of our primary forces a rather durable weapon is needed....We also stress the need for a non penetrating round....Upon succesful completion of the testing the first order will call for 20,000 units

It is a very reliable gun with very simple internal mechanisms, no jarrable parts, and it is made of unrustable materials like stainless steel and TiAl alloys. Just like a pistol, frangible low-penetration rounds are available, eliminating the need for lower velocity type rounds.