NationStates Jolt Archive


On the move again (ATTN: The Macabees)

Automagfreek
24-11-2004, 21:56
Several large naval groups headed by some of the up and coming Warchiefs in the AMF military took to the seas outside of St. Freeksburg port with great speed. On board were several large divisions of Sentinels, several battallions of Sentinel Stalkers, and of course the heavily armed regiments of the Death Dealers. Moving in formation at the fastest possible speed they cut through AMF territorial waters quickly, and upon entering international waters they steered along the most secure and direct route to their target. Chatter over the radio was minimal at most, for the young and ambitious Warchiefs knew exactly where they were going and what they were about to do.

***Back at ULE City, Automagfreek***

Minister Hartman and Defense Minister Jackson sat in their highback chairs and listened to the reports of enemy movements and their level of activity. Having heard his fill, Hartman waved his hand dismissively and silenced his military advisors, and with an exhausted yet to-the-point voice he gave them his final set or orders for the evening. Look, we all know Automagfreek is committed to the war in Crimmond at the moment. The rest of the world knows this, and I certainly don't see the problem with this latest deployment.

One of Hartman's advisors interrupted him reluctantly. Sir, we all know the entire planet watches our every move, so what are we going to say if the international community questions this latest deployment? We already have almost a quarter million troops in Crimmond, and surely everyone is going to wonder as to the nature of this... Hartman cut off his advisor abruptly. Look, if there are any questions from anyone, I will handle them.

Another one of Hartman's advisors stepped forward just as the two Ministers began taking their leave for the evening. Sir, what are you going to tell them? Hartman turned and said plainly. Simple, they're going to Crimmond.Nothing more, nothing less. He eyed his advisors one last time, then alongside Jackson the two exited the secure room. Jackson leaned over and whispered to Hartman while glancing around. You're just going to say that our latest deployments are going to Crimmond? Hartman turned to Jackson and with a look of bewilderment on his face, nodded and said yes.
Independent Hitmen
24-11-2004, 22:08
A KH-11 Recon Satellite over the Med noticed the large collection of ships moving from port in AMF and heading out into the open sea.

Within minutes the information was in the New White House. AMF had been on the watch list primarily because of the leading role that it took in NATO, and the current problems that were currently being inacted in the Western Med, that were connected with NATO and NWO members.

Within the hour the Secretary of State had delivered a message to the AMF embassy in J City, formally requesting to know AMF's stance on the straights of Gibralter as well as any information that may be relevant to that fact directly concerning the troop movements that were observed by satellites overflying international waters, or allied territories.
McLeod03
24-11-2004, 22:16
<MAFCCP>

A look of panic crossed the face of the Intelligence officer assigned to watch AMF deployments world-wide. His hands visibly trembling, he flicked-open and depressed a covered button, alerting the Duty Officer to the new situation, and began to collate images, attempting to piece together approximate numbers, and possiblelanding zones for this huge fleet that had just departed the country of an ex-ally.
Tyrandis
24-11-2004, 22:18
Tango. Alpha. Golf.
The Macabees
24-11-2004, 22:34
OOC: It's a nice day day to smell dying sentinels.

And, before I start, I wish to make the point that in this attack you have no clue it was me.

Remember that sub I sent to your waters?

IC:
SSN37 was four hundred feet submerged, some one thousand kilometers from AutoMagFreek's coastline when it received the ELF transmission to rise to periscope depth to receive a more detailed sattelite databurst. The captain did so, and the transmission went through as planned and he read his orders. It seemed like a large AMF fleet was leaving home waters and heading on course to the Junker Reich, or somewhere near it - telling from current relations with AutoMagFreek the Macabees weren't taking any chances to hurt this task force before it got anywhere - plus, it would be nice to sink a few ships clandestinely before any belligerency became official. Perhaps it would form the Freeks to change their mind before they did anything stupid. NWO, RWC and Macabee sattelites had all detected the movements and several sattelite passes had given perfect coordinates of the location of Freek shipping in that fairly large task force. So, it would SSN37s job to strike at the heart of the task force.

Submerging back to four hundred feet the Toledo class SSN sailed towards the Freek task force and once it got within five hundred kilometers of the Freek task force (fast fowarding a bit) it rose to one hundred and fifty feet depth, well out of SONAR range of the Freek forces, and extremely safe. It was time to play a card in the war before the conflict had even started. If enough damage was done to the fleet before it got to the Macabee waters then the Freek force could be dealth with a tad easier, and the Macabee people could go back their routine lives - however, if nothing was done then the Macabee Empire would face a larger obstacle and it would be a tad harder to destroy this feeble attempt to crush the Empire. In any case, the Empire's military would finally have a chance to crack at the Freeks.

From the submarine's position five hundred kilometers from the moving Freek fleet it opened the outer doors to its VLS tubing and readied four Principe III missiles for launch. The hydraulic system would automatically reload the empty slot in the four slot tube after every launch, providing the Macabee submarine a constant rain of fire on the Freek fleets. So, one after one, a total of ten Principe IIIs were slammed into the air, and at three meters altitude, with a RAMjet propulsion (the SS-N-19 uses RAMjet, so RAMjet is possible at such a low altitude), the missile made its way at Mach 2.1 towards the Freek fleets. However, the fun wouldn't end there. Since it was "below" the horizon the Freek RADAR probably would fail to detect it until it got within one hundred kilometers or so, depending on recent the Freek RADAR was, but it wouldn't really matter. At one hundred kilometers out the Principe IIIs turned on their heavy jammers and began to slow down, and seventy kilometers from the Freek task force the missile capsule broke, dropping a 250km MT-2 SuCav torpedo into the water, nose first, at 120kph. The MT-2 made its way at a normal rate of 70 knots for most of the attack phase, but twenty kilometers out it started to make turns for 200knots (Super Cavitating), knifing its way under the waves towards the AutoMagFreek navy. The increased range, from ten kilometers to twenty, was made possible through a THYMONEL 8 coating on the screw, which gave it a tad extra strength, allowing it to take both water pressure and pure pressure of the sheer velocity it was moving at. (And no, a missile launched torpedo is not possible. A missile the size of a AS-19 Koala can carry a 2kt warhead.... so a missile MUCH smaller than that can carry a 250kg torpedo without problem. I've spoken to a bunch of naval experts, such as my physics teacher, who worked on the Tomahawk (TLAS-D) missile project, and my neighbor (a Lt. Commander in the Navy), as well as a British engineer who went out with myh mom.)

After this launch the submarine dived to eight hundred feet and changed bearing to beging screening the AutoMagFreek navy from one hundred kilometers out, using its anachoic tiling and MACCAVAB on the screw and hull to make it extremely quiet.

In other news, some fifty SSNs had left Macabea to place themselves randomly between the AMF navy and the Macabee homeland, and a naval task force was placing itself one hundred kilometers from the shore, with a triangular ASW, triple ASW, fifty, one hundred and one hundred and fifty kilomters out. An AWACs was happening two hundred kilometers out, and their was an active CAP around the carrier. The Macabee government will not give an official response, although it had contacted allied governments to send navies to help the Macabee Empire in this war.
Automagfreek
24-11-2004, 22:36
OOC: You are making great assumptions that your sub is in my waters undetected. Not only are you in the waters of quite possibly the most militant modern tech nation around, you're also in Arda territory. You're taking great liberties here in assuming that I don't know there's a sub in my waters.
The Macabees
24-11-2004, 22:38
OOC: Your are making great assumptions that your sub is in my waters undetected. Not only are you in the waters of quite possibly the most militant modern tech nation around, you're also in Arda territory. You're taking great liberties here in assuming that I don't know there's a sub in my waters.

OOC: Are you aware that SONAR can't burn through a modern submarine unless around 10kilometers from it..if its a powerful system...are you also aware that I said that I was 1,000 kilometers away, and moving within 500kilometers distance of your moving fleet..which is well away from your waters.
Automagfreek
24-11-2004, 22:41
OOC: Are you aware that SONAR can't burn through a modern submarine unless around 10kilometers from it..if its a powerful system...are you also aware that I said that I was 1,000 kilometers away, and moving within 500kilometers distance of your moving fleet..which is well away from your waters.


OOC: You are aware that I have actual underwater SONAR emplacements at strategic positions around my territorial waters? Not the mention the fact that you're assuming that I do not have subs patrolling my waters on a 24/7 basis.

No worries though, my fleets are all equipped with the latest and greatest in Resi Corp. tech. But for tonight I'm off to play some paintball.

Once you figure out the point of this thread you're going to feel like an ass, and I don't even know why you're posting in this thread......
Isselmere
24-11-2004, 22:50
(.... so a missile MUCH smaller than that can carry a 250kg torpedo without problem)

[OOC: The ASROC's warhead is a Mk.46 or Mk.50 torpedo, the Australian Ikara carried a Mk.44 or Mk.46 torpedo, MBDA sells the MILAS the warhead of which is a LWT, so I doubt that anyone would refute that point. However, supercavitating torpedoes are basically underwater rockets, thus have no propellers, propulsors, etc. But that's another argument entirely...]
Sarzonia
24-11-2004, 22:56
[OOC: No clue what you're doing? I think your IC actions can at least make you suspicious.]

Rear Admiral Ben Newman sat on the bridge of the shiny new flagship ISS Vigilant. The Commonwealth-class vessel just breezed through the Sarzonian navy's typically rigid sea trials with flying colors and the ship was deemed more than ready to serve at the forefront of combat. He studied the lines of the fine Granzian construction and smiled.

What a nice ship, Newman thought. I'm sure it will be put to real good use.

The Vigilant waited for the convoy led by the [i]Vanguard before it set off on its way. The ships included several Resolute-class battleships, which could wield impressive missile and gun ordnances at their targets. The fleet, a combination of the Third and Sixth Fleets, would set sail and Commodore Brynne Napier would get the opportunity to earn herself a promotion to Rear Admiral if she commanded the Sixth Fleet to a win over Newman's Third Fleet. Either way, the show of force was expected to be an impressive one.

Thirty new SZ-2 'Albatross' aircraft took off from the aircraft carrier Granzi, newly pressed into service after an extensive refit due to the retirement of its legendary sister ship ISS Valiant. The Granzi would be expected to carry on the tradition of great service by the great Vengeance-class supercarriers.

The new aircraft were expected to get an opportunity to prove their mettle in air-to-air combat and provide some faith in Windham and Green Industries, which took a gamble by establishing the Avalon Aerospace Corporation. The ISS Penobscot, the second Portland Iron Works-built supercarrier, launched a squadron of 25 SZ-1 'Vulture' aircraft. Both fleet commanders expected their aircraft to acquit themselves well in the naval exercise.

"Admiral," a lieutenant manning the communications station called out in a calm, confident voice that belied his nerves.

"What is it, Mr. Hopkins?"

"I'm reading a series of fleets approaching our exercise location. Registry... Automagfreek."

Newman raised his eyebrow slightly. Automagfreek? Surely they weren't planning naval exercises themselves, were they?

"Seems like we have some surprise guests," Newman said in a nonchalant tone. Let's clear the dinner table, shall we?" When Hopkins delayed responding to Newman, he clarified.

"Tensions between the Macabees and NATO have been nearing the boiling point for months now," Newman said. "Our special envoy to NATO has been briefing us that such an exercise was an outside possibility. Perhaps we can talk the Automagfreek admiral into conducting a joint exercise with us. It'd give us something better to do than try to shoot down our own people, even if it is with blanks."

"Aye sir," Hopkins replied with a look of doubt still clouding his fresh-faced countenance. He opened the channel to Commodore Napier to inform her of the change in plans.

Aboard the bridge of her ISS Courageous, Napier raised an eyebrow for a brief moment, then smiled slightly.

A change could do us some good, she thought.
Inkana
24-11-2004, 22:57
OOC: You are aware that I have actual underwater SONAR emplacements at strategic positions around my territorial waters? Not the mention the fact that you're assuming that I do not have subs patrolling my waters on a 24/7 basis.

No worries though, my fleets are all equipped with the latest and greatest in Resi Corp. tech. But for tonight I'm off to play some paintball.

Once you figure out the point of this thread you're going to feel like an ass.
-Snicker-
The Island of Rose
24-11-2004, 23:38
OMG! Tag.
Belem
25-11-2004, 00:01
Tag since Mac is an ally
A Few Rich People
25-11-2004, 00:08
IMS-43
Small Island off of AFRP

“Report!” barked the CO.

“Sir, we have a large naval force from AMF moving rapidly across international waters, and its course does not coincide with their current war,” replied the ensign.

“Any idea their target?”

“Sir, no sir, but we seem to not be it.”

“Good, keep me informed,”

((OOC: IC tag))
Safehaven2
25-11-2004, 03:21
tag
Zarbia
25-11-2004, 04:26
tag.
Izistan
25-11-2004, 04:30
Ooc: Tag
Skager
25-11-2004, 04:42
*Prepares for a major shit storm, pulls out umbrella and gets popcorn.*

{TAG} with great interest!
Inkana
25-11-2004, 04:59
Whoa! Looks like we're in for a real show!
[TaG]
IDF
25-11-2004, 05:05
tag
Schultaria Prime
25-11-2004, 05:37
TAG for the political implications this could have on Schultarian foreign policy.
Vastiva
25-11-2004, 06:53
"General! AMF is moving troops again!"
"But of course." She closed a folder, tucked it away. "Are they moving in our direction?"
"Negative, sir."
"In the direction of our colonies?"
"Negative, sir."
The General stared at her aide. "Ok then."
"....there seems to be a submarine following them."
"And?"
"And.... may I refresh your coffee, sir?"
"Of course."
Dumpsterdam
25-11-2004, 13:04
OoC: Uh, Mac, what do you want to do with those quarter of a million DAF troops you got in your country? Just leme know m'kay?
The Merchant Guilds
25-11-2004, 13:16
*Tag for later reference/participation*
Jonothana
25-11-2004, 17:47
I hope I don't forget to buy tags for my Christmas presents.
Benderberg
25-11-2004, 18:02
SECRET MESSAGE TO MACABEES

We have noticed that there seems to be an AMF fleet steaming towards you. I don't want to guess their intentions, but you can never know what they will do. I want to ask permission as part of the RWC base exchange program that I can send troops to your nation to help keep in case of possible escalation by AMF. We will send the troops we had in Poland to help. We have 125,000 ground troops of 10 divisions available along with an additional 75,000 logistical troops with those divisions. We have 2 fighter wings and 1 strike bomber wing. As for Naval ships I can only send 1 destroyer squadron with 1 Ticonderoga class cruiser and 5 Arleigh Burke class destroyers. They have 1 fleet oiler accompanying them.

We apologize that we cannot send more. Perhaps if things settle down a little bit in our nation we will be able to spare more. We await your reply.

With Regards.

General Romsel, leader of the Dominion of Benderberg.
The Macabees
25-11-2004, 18:27
OOC:

Vastiva: Ummm, how the hell do you know about my submarine screening the fleet?

AutoMagFreek: Those SONAR emplacements...seem a little bullshit... if you have a program sending those coordinate of SONAR contacts you pick up you're going to have to be over 150 feet submerged..meaning I doubt you'll pick something up passively under the layer, or under two layers, and if you're going active you've just painted the entire SONAR "picket line" for anything that comes near, and probably failed to paint the enemy submarine for yourself.

If your sending it from four hundred feet you're sending it either through radio, or ELF (extremely low frequency)..but those messages are going to be long, so most probably the radio messages can be picked up, so again, you've painted the "picket line" for something trying to get around it.

And again, I doubt you have that picket line 500 kilometers off your coast... or even farther than that.... by the time I would get 500 kms from your fleet your fleet was probably 200kms off coast...so I was probably around 700kms from your coastline when I attacked.

And, I'm fine feeling like an ass...

----------

Also, I might get on this weekend... 1. My dad is a dick, and doesn't let me on... and he has a 56k... if I go to my mother's then I can use the cable for as long as I would like...

2. It's thanksgiving.


-------------

About the torpedoes:


The Mk48 ADCAP has a warhead about 500kgs, more or less... the MT-2 has a 250kg warhead... so it's MUCH smaller... also, I've seen "hybrid" torpedoes built by amateurs in action... having a screw for normal runs, and then putting in the underwater jet (sometimes called underwater RAMjet) for the final run..of course, these have a range of no more than fifty kilometers.... however, I augmented the range by putting a stronger super alloy on the engine, and making the engine a bit longer.
The Macabees
25-11-2004, 18:28
SECRET MESSAGE TO MACABEES

We have noticed that there seems to be an AMF fleet steaming towards you. I don't want to guess their intentions, but you can never know what they will do. I want to ask permission as part of the RWC base exchange program that I can send troops to your nation to help keep in case of possible escalation by AMF. We will send the troops we had in Poland to help. We have 125,000 ground troops of 10 divisions available along with an additional 75,000 logistical troops with those divisions. We have 2 fighter wings and 1 strike bomber wing. As for Naval ships I can only send 1 destroyer squadron with 1 Ticonderoga class cruiser and 5 Arleigh Burke class destroyers. They have 1 fleet oiler accompanying them.

We apologize that we cannot send more. Perhaps if things settle down a little bit in our nation we will be able to spare more. We await your reply.

With Regards.

General Romsel, leader of the Dominion of Benderberg.

We would very appreciative of allied aid in this war. We thank you.
Greenmanbry
25-11-2004, 20:35
[TAG] + evil grin
Isselmere
25-11-2004, 20:39
OOC:
About the torpedoes:


The Mk48 ADCAP has a warhead about 500kgs, more or less... the MT-2 has a 250kg warhead... so it's MUCH smaller... also, I've seen "hybrid" torpedoes built by amateurs in action... having a screw for normal runs, and then putting in the underwater jet (sometimes called underwater RAMjet) for the final run..of course, these have a range of no more than fifty kilometers.... however, I augmented the range by putting a stronger super alloy on the engine, and making the engine a bit longer.

[OOC: Mk.48 ADCAP warheads are about 300kg, which is approximately the mass of a lightweight torpedo. My statement wasn't refuting the possibility of such a missile, but the reverse. With respect to hybrid torpedoes, it's an interesting concept, but it seems as if you're firing from over a hundred km away.]
Vastiva
25-11-2004, 20:50
OOC:

Vastiva: Ummm, how the hell do you know about my submarine screening the fleet?


OOC: Because my OVERSIGHT satellites have been there for months real time, and know what the sea floor is supposed to look like. Your submarine is making a shadow*, a pressure wave where there is not supposed to be one, altering magnetic resonance patterns, interfering with normal LIDAR and passive-image checks and cross checks of the area (etc). You are also altering the movement patterns of fish schools who show up nicely on deep UV scans. So we have a "there's something here which is not supposed to be there", which then gets checked and cross checked and compared with NATO military movement tables, allied military and civilian movement tables, general shipping notes, and all other sources.

At the end of all this, the surface is checked and found empty. As a result, the best intelligence estimate is "there's a submarine there".

Who owns the submarine, the type, etc, is not IC known at this time. Heck, it could be an AMF submarine. Vastiva doesn't care at this time.

*no, we don't mean a visible light shadow.
Automagfreek
25-11-2004, 20:58
OOC:

Vastiva: Ummm, how the hell do you know about my submarine screening the fleet?

AutoMagFreek: Those SONAR emplacements...seem a little bullshit... if you have a program sending those coordinate of SONAR contacts you pick up you're going to have to be over 150 feet submerged..meaning I doubt you'll pick something up passively under the layer, or under two layers, and if you're going active you've just painted the entire SONAR "picket line" for anything that comes near, and probably failed to paint the enemy submarine for yourself.

If your sending it from four hundred feet you're sending it either through radio, or ELF (extremely low frequency)..but those messages are going to be long, so most probably the radio messages can be picked up, so again, you've painted the "picket line" for something trying to get around it.

And again, I doubt you have that picket line 500 kilometers off your coast... or even farther than that.... by the time I would get 500 kms from your fleet your fleet was probably 200kms off coast...so I was probably around 700kms from your coastline when I attacked.

http://members.cox.net/resicorp/crawler.htm

I have several legions of these transports retrofitted with SONAR equipment spread throughout my territorial waters. They sit passively at the bottom and track things like...oh...your sub that enter my waters. When one of the crawlers detects the presense of an unidentified target, the signal is instantly relayed from crawler to crawler in a matter of seconds, and it is then bounced towards the nearest coastal defense station, and is then reported to AMF military command. Anything and everything that the Resi Corp produces I own in full rights because I ICly bought Resi like 6 months ago. While I do not have vast quantities of these things because they are too advanced for my scientists to reproducce, I do have enough of them to keep me safe.

And, I'm fine feeling like an ass...

Well, this thead was supposed to be merely a gag. Guess not now.


About the torpedoes:


The Mk48 ADCAP has a warhead about 500kgs, more or less... the MT-2 has a 250kg warhead... so it's MUCH smaller... also, I've seen "hybrid" torpedoes built by amateurs in action... having a screw for normal runs, and then putting in the underwater jet (sometimes called underwater RAMjet) for the final run..of course, these have a range of no more than fifty kilometers.... however, I augmented the range by putting a stronger super alloy on the engine, and making the engine a bit longer.

That's fine, although I really don't care for stat wanking myself. My larger ships are fitted with AI assisted rail drivers and other underwater countermeasures, such as AI/ECM, and limited amounts of underwater kinetic weaponry. Not to mention the fact that my Supremacy class subs would be all over your ass right now because you inevitably had to pass near a crawler of mine and set it off.
Safehaven2
25-11-2004, 22:17
*cough* AMF I think what hes trying to tell you is that he wasn't in your territorial waters to be detected in the first place.
Samtonia
25-11-2004, 22:29
OOC-
Yarrr! Shiver me timbers! What be that I eyeing? Yarrrr! I TAG this here thread!

*Pieces of Eight! Pieces of Eight! SQUAWK!*
The Macabees
25-11-2004, 23:26
http://members.cox.net/resicorp/crawler.htm

I have several legions of these transports retrofitted with SONAR equipment spread throughout my territorial waters. They sit passively at the bottom and track things like...oh...your sub that enter my waters. When one of the crawlers detects the presense of an unidentified target, the signal is instantly relayed from crawler to crawler in a matter of seconds, and it is then bounced towards the nearest coastal defense station, and is then reported to AMF military command. Anything and everything that the Resi Corp produces I own in full rights because I ICly bought Resi like 6 months ago. While I do not have vast quantities of these things because they are too advanced for my scientists to reproducce, I do have enough of them to keep me safe.

That's tatamount to radio chatter...so that means I can hear your "crawlers" all the way from Moscow. Also, I doubt they'll be sitting at the bottom of your ocean 700kms from your coastline..oh, umm, maybe something called water pressure...the fartherst a submarine has gone down is about three kilometers..and that submarine was a miniature ball, that held two scientist... there's no chance in hell a SONAR system can fit in that... so, for that piece of bullshit I call GODMOD.




That's fine, although I really don't care for stat wanking myself. My larger ships are fitted with AI assisted rail drivers and other underwater countermeasures, such as AI/ECM, and limited amounts of underwater kinetic weaponry. Not to mention the fact that my Supremacy class subs would be all over your ass right now because you inevitably had to pass near a crawler of mine and set it off.

Do you understand what a KE system is? KE isn't a mechanical system - KE is KENETIC ENERGY... Kenetic Energy is the amount of energy in a weapon during its flight time... for a little bit of physics... KE = PE... so the amount of potential energy in your system's engine is what the KE is going to equal.

Also, last time I checked rail guns don't have the capability of working under water.


----------

you're going to have to stop bullshitting this technology, or using 2200 tech, and start fighting a real war.... or else you're being ignored.
Vastiva
25-11-2004, 23:51
OOC: Ever heard of "Passive Sonar Detection"? In short, if you know how things are supposed to sound, you know when they sound odd, and you can over time piece together what is there.

And if you believe that 3 kilometers is the furthest a submarine can go down - WHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA! :D

It's "kinetic". And KE weapons are a mainstay here. I'll leave it to someone else to fill you in on them, because you look really silly not knowing about them.

The final line just proves many of my points.
DontPissUsOff
26-11-2004, 00:02
That's tatamount to radio chatter...so that means I can hear your "crawlers" all the way from Moscow. Also, I doubt they'll be sitting at the bottom of your ocean 700kms from your coastline..oh, umm, maybe something called water pressure...the fartherst a submarine has gone down is about three kilometers..and that submarine was a miniature ball, that held two scientist... there's no chance in hell a SONAR system can fit in that... so, for that piece of bullshit I call GODMOD.

OK, you mention water pressure. What I can't undewrstand is how you can think that a small, mobile, autonomous electronics array cannot go to that depth. The array can be built very small and very strong, since it doesn't have to accommodate a load of people inside its' pressure sphere; thus the pressure on the hull can be sizeably smaller, and the hull much stronger, than on a manned vessel.

Do you understand what a KE system is? KE isn't a mechanical system - KE is KENETIC ENERGY... Kenetic Energy is the amount of energy in a weapon during its flight time... for a little bit of physics... KE = PE... so the amount of potential energy in your system's engine is what the KE is going to equal.

I actually can't understand what the relevance of this pronouncement is, to be honest.

Also, last time I checked rail guns don't have the capability of working under water.

Not necessarily true. A railgun depends on having a magnetic field able to propel the projectile from the accelerator array at high velocities. The magnetic field is not automatically going to be rendered inoperable by water surrounding the magnets. Its performance might be degraded, due to both the this and the denser medium of operation, but it's not always going to fail to operate.

----------

you're going to have to stop bullshitting this technology, or using 2200 tech, and start fighting a real war.... or else you're being ignored.

Says you? Mister "I have undetectable submarines"?
Automagfreek
26-11-2004, 00:44
That's tatamount to radio chatter...so that means I can hear your "crawlers" all the way from Moscow. Also, I doubt they'll be sitting at the bottom of your ocean 700kms from your coastline..oh, umm, maybe something called water pressure...the fartherst a submarine has gone down is about three kilometers..and that submarine was a miniature ball, that held two scientist... there's no chance in hell a SONAR system can fit in that... so, for that piece of bullshit I call GODMOD.

LOL, call godmod on it if you want, but I've been using this shit for some time. Glad you're just now bitching about it seeing as it only now affects you.




you're going to have to stop bullshitting this technology, or using 2200 tech, and start fighting a real war.... or else you're being ignored.


Question...who the hell are you to tell me what tech to use? Again, I love how you can call bullshit on this when you know damn well this is the stuff that not only I use, but alot of other nations as well. And you want me to fight a REAL war? Fine boy, you got it. You want salted earth? You got it.

Oh, and just so I'd mention, the entire point of this thread was those troops were actually on their way to Crimmond. This thread had nothing to do with you, but I was making a point. Remember a few weeks back when you made certain theads that contained 'ATTN: NATO or ATTN: AMF' in the title, but then bitched at anyone when we tried to respond? Well, this thread was to fuck with your head, but you obviously are so scared to the point where you have decided to strike me first. Looks like a joke gone bad, and now you'll get what you want. Oh wait......I can't attack you because 'OMFG LOLZ J00 C4N7 D373C7 MY SUBZZZ!!!111Shift+1'.

Also, you're picking a fight with a nation that uses fantasy/magic/post-modern and or pre-future tech. I don't want to hear ANY bitching from you about any of this. I'm not going to abuse it however, but don't expect me not to use it. And I don't want to hear you whine when Metus jumps in, because they use alot of the same tech I do.
Automagfreek
26-11-2004, 00:47
OOC: Ever heard of "Passive Sonar Detection"? In short, if you know how things are supposed to sound, you know when they sound odd, and you can over time piece together what is there.

And if you believe that 3 kilometers is the furthest a submarine can go down - WHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA! :D

It's "kinetic". And KE weapons are a mainstay here. I'll leave it to someone else to fill you in on them, because you look really silly not knowing about them.

The final line just proves many of my points.


OOC: Thank you Vastiva, and thank you DPUO. Finally some people that know their shit.
Automagfreek
26-11-2004, 01:24
As the missiles came dangerously close range to the passing fleets, the AI controlled defensive measure erupted with life, it's processor lights flickering madly as the AI engaged the automated defensive measures on board of the battleships and larger destroyers. The rail drivers whirled about and began launching volley after volley of DU slugs at the inbound missiles, compensating slighty for the near insignificant slowdown the slugs would encounter when piercing the water by leading it's targets appropriatly. The on board AI also engaged massive radar jamming across the board, affecting both friendly craft as well as any hostile craft that would try and fire upon the fleets again.

The AI was successful in downing many of the inbound projectiles, but as with any system it was not fool proof. Several slammed into the decks of communications ships, destroyers, a few transports, and into the side of a missile frigate, sinking it instantly. Immediatly the Supremacy class submarines received readout from the location of the launch, because the moment the AI detected a launch it cross referenced real time satellite imagery and tracked the projectile to it's origin in the water. The subs then took off frantically to the site, their torpedo tubes loaded and ready to fire.

Off the decks of the carrier Whirlwind, several modified OA-10's loaded with underwater sentry droids took off and flew to the exact coordinates provided. Having to compensate for travel time for both the planes and the subs, the OA-10's would drop their sentry bots several miles around where the projectiles were launched. After several minutes of hitting their modified thrusters that were outfited beneath their wings (they lose 1/3 of their payload capability as a result), the OA-10's were nearing their target.

Word had been sent to the fleets parked outside of Crimmond, and another detachment was sent to intercept the sub that had fired upon Freek ships. Almost a dozen Supremacy class subs and a small convoy of ships that included a carrier, several missile frigates, destroyers, and the like took the the seas and spread out their formation. Soon the sub would be cornered and inevitably destroyed. OA-10's were also launched off the decks of the carrier Valhalla armed with similar sentry bots. The bots held several 5 foot long high explosive torpedos with AI targeting systems both on board the missile but as well as the drone.

The OA-10's bled their thrusters dry, then switched their engine back to main power and continued on course. Periodically they would drop a single sensor into the water that sent out sonar impulses as it decended down to the floor of the sea. Having deected nothing, the 'containment' area soon shrank to a managable size. With Supremacy class subs closing in all around in a wider perimeter, the sub's days were immediatly numbered. As the containment area yet again grew smaller, the first OA-10 decended down towards the waves and dropped it's sentry bot into the water. Being pre-programed into recon/search and destroy mode, the bot would instantly engage any target not broadcasting a secure and highly encrypted tansmission with it's entire payload at once. The bot was then programmed tto fire it's thrusters and kamikaze itself into the enemy craft.

More time passed, and soon the last sentry bot was in the water. Up until now nothing had been detected, but with little to no sea left to search, the sub was already dead in the water.
Chellis
26-11-2004, 02:10
Nato channels opened up, sending information off; Large amounts of firepower happening at an AMF convoy. Chellis' ears heard it almost as fast as it happened, through friendly channels.

"Send a boat; Whatever is close. Send a message to AMF as well, asking them if they would like some assistance on whatever is happening."

------------

The CHN Oublier, a medium armed corvette, sat in the sea's a fair distance from AMF. Ships of these kind were manned mostly by citizens from chellian colonies. They sat in remote areas of the world, and provided a fast response to any action needed, from catching criminal ships or aircraft, to reconnaisance of areas of the world. The Oublier flipped on its engines, and made full speed for AMF. It wouldn't be there too soon, but within the day.
Samtonia
26-11-2004, 03:02
The Samtonian heavy cruiser General Wallace was nearest to the attack on the AMF fleet. Therefore, as the first official word filtered down her comms interception unit, she was the first Samtonian ship to officialy respond.

On a mission of signals interception, her crew was prepared to deal with enemy demands to leave an area, but was not ready to enter an active warzone. Therefore, as the announcement went out over the ship's speaker and the Samtonian relay net, the crew fell silent.

{Intercepted relays relating to attack on AMF convoy Tango. Heavy losses, with one cruiser sunk and numerous other vessels damaged. Steaming to aid. Please advise at once}

Prayers were murmured, for themselves by the younger sailors and for the people of whichever country attacked the convoy by the more experienced sailors. They had seen what warchiefs under Dreadfire's command had done before. They didn't envy anyone woh would be on the receiving end of it.

+++++++++
This is Samtonian heavy cruiser General Wallace. Be advised we are steaming towards your convoy at this time, from a bearing of 88 degrees North. Are coming to act as official Samtonian envoy to NATO on the scene. Please advise us in any way we can help.
DontPissUsOff
26-11-2004, 03:07
For DPUO's part, a lone Sovremennyy-class destroyer was making a slow and uneventful trip home, when the ship's comms crew picked up the report from the Freek fleet. The Captain's face went white when he heard the message, and he ordered flank speed towards the Freeks reported position, some 190 miles to his north-east. The destroyer surged forward, accelerating to thirty knots, her ASW helicopter dropping high-depth sonobuoys ahead of her.

To Freek fleet

This is Captain J. Marlborough of the People's Republic Destroyer S-40.
We are making full speed for your position now from bearing 205
(approx., relative) and standing by to pick up survivors.
Vastiva
26-11-2004, 03:28
"Do we have anything in the area?"
"Fleet twelve is on maneuvers, and pack eleven is near."
"Twelve - with the Nyads?"
"Yes, sir, the test vehicles are out there."
"Route to rescue operations, inform AMF we are headed in their direction. God help us."
IDF
26-11-2004, 05:53
OOC: Macabees, why did you fire on AMF? There was no IC reason for you to fire on him. You were just wanting to fire on him as shown in previous threads so you took an opportunity and now may have instigated a war. Whether or not that happens depends on how both sides take it from here. It appears you have shown that you don't want to work for peace and want to be a warmonger. AMF's ships were heading for Crimmond and you reacted to nothing and may have just screwed yourself over very badly.

IC:Tel Aviv Naval Base
Admiral Jacobson was dockside as the Atlantic fleet pulled in at the completion of their wargames. He had grave news to report. The crews were looking forward to downtime. It wasn't going to be that way.

Vice-Admiral Mordechai Kooperman saw the Admiral's grim face as he disembarked his flagship, the carrier ISS Reuben. "What is it Admiral?" he asked.

"You are going out again Mordechai," began Jacobson. "It appears the AMF Navy has come under attack. That is all we know. I'm not going to mobilize thw whole IDF Navy, but since your ships are already worked up and not due for refit yet we will send you near the AMF coast just in case."

"When will I be leaving Sir?" asked Kooperman. He was smart enough not to ask a dumb question like 'why me'.

"You will leave in 12 hours," said the CinC of the IDF Navy. "I want your whole Atlantic fleet sailing out then. I'll inform your CO's to bear you the brunt. You can tell your crews and Commanders that they will get a $10,000 bonus in their next paycheck for doing this mission. That will keep them from complaining. They will also get extended leaves upon return."

"Thank you Sir," said Kooperman. He saw that Jacobson was sincere in his regrets that the crews would have to go into harms way again. The bonuses would help make it easier.

"You won't be alone for long," said Jacobson. "The rest of the Navy isn't ready yet. We had wargames scheduled. They will go on at this time. If the situation gets worse the fleets will join you. It may just be a good workup and training cruise for you and your men. I'll head off now and inform you ship commanders."

"Thank you Sir," said Kooperman.
Presgreif
26-11-2004, 08:28
Official Communique to Macabees

We have recently confirmed information lately received that your have knowingly and willingly ordered your forces to fire upon an AMF fleet which posed no direct threat to your nation. It is our duty to inform you that as per our alliance with the nation of Automagfreek by way of that organization known as Metus we are bound by oath to come to the military aid of said nation. Consequentially, we have no choice but to officialy declare ourselves to be at war with you and yours. We have begun the full mobilization of our forces. May God have mercy on your souls.

Signed;
Safehaven2
26-11-2004, 15:37
Ummm Presgief, you have no idea it was Mac, not even AMF knows it was him yet ICCLy so that communique is irevelent. And if you read the other thread that talks about the sub Mac just used, I believe its called Crimson Tide you'd know it was a "rogue" sub and therefor not connected to Macs government.
Presgreif
26-11-2004, 20:14
Ummm Presgief, you have no idea it was Mac, not even AMF knows it was him yet ICCLy so that communique is irevelent. And if you read the other thread that talks about the sub Mac just used, I believe its called Crimson Tide you'd know it was a "rogue" sub and therefor not connected to Macs government.

ooc:Are you familiar with the concept of intelligence gathering? The Greifan Empire has its spys and informants everywhere. I would assume the same for every other nation. There are no "secrets" anymore. Oh, and do please explain to me the concept of a "rogue" sub. :rolleyes:
I could go ahead and write you a detailed 5000 word post about how it is my government came about this information, but it would be an absolute and utter waste of time seeing as how;
1) You most probably wouldn't bother reading it.
2) You'd shout GODMOD very loudly for all to hear.

So perhaps we could just spare ourselves all that bullshit and accept the fact that the source of the attack on AMF's fleet could not remain secret for long, and that anyone interested could very quickly find out its source.

Also, its "Presgreif", not "Presgrief", but then again you probably spell "Reich" like "Riech" too, huh?
The Macabees
26-11-2004, 20:21
OOC:

TECHNOLOGY DEBATE-

1. Yes, I know was passive SONAR is. However, in order to transmit coordinates and readings from "crawler" to "crawler" you're going to need radio chatter - which can be picked up by any passive SONAR supervisor on a submarine, basically painting the entire picket-line of these "crawlers".

2. Don't the rail guns need oxygen to fire? Just a question. I mean, pure oxygen.

-----------------

AMF: Those missiles I fired, don't hit your ships as missiles. Had you read my post without unecessary haste, due to your obviously haughty nature, you would have figured out that seventy kilometers out from target the missile propulsion "capsule" breaks, dropping the 250kg (warhead size) MT-2 hybrid torpedo - once the torpedo reached 20kms from your fleet it begins to use its "water RAMjet" and supercavitates at 200knots...it uses an active SONAR and a LIDAR targeting guidance system to hit your fleet.... also, you may want to take in mind that one hundred kilometers from your fleet, as specified in my post... I turned on heavy jamming...

----

Also, before this war evolves, if you're going to pull out fantasy and post-modern technology I'm just going to ignore you, so it's best not to waste anybody's time here. Or we can say that I have a fantasy mechanism that nulls are fantasy and post-modern weaponry when fighting in my "war voids".... it's up to you.

If you want to go on with the war, tell when when you've gone 430 kilometers further. After that, I'm going to need to know when you went 1,000 kilometers beyond that.

---------

IDF: SafeHaven2 still has his fleet between Italy and Tunisia if you're looking to take that route from Israel.

-------------------

IC:

Five hundred kilometers from the location of the Freek's moving task force SSN34 sat eight hundred feet under the waves of the cold ocean that bordered that warlord's dark country. It lay there, engines off, using only it's passive SONAR, and it's TB-23 towed array to locate incoming shipping. The crew of the Toledo class SSN stood quiet, saying nothing, and the captain had sweat rolling down his eyebrows and his cheeks. He knew that things would get tricky here, and that the government had branded him a rougue submarine, basically signing him his death warrant, however, he worked for his country, and he would die for his country.

The Toledo had eight tubes. Six of these tubes were loaded with the infamous MT-2 SuCav torpedoes, while the other two were loaded with the MAT-1 SuCav anti-torpedoes.

Quiet as ever it didn't take much for the sonar crewmen to hear the "sentries" enter the water. Several of them made plopping noises as they made their way down the blue ocean towards the Macabee submarine of war. The SCIWS guns were ready, and with the Freek fleet still five hundred kilometers off it was safe to actively ping. A single ping rippled through the water, painting the positions of the incoming "sentries" perfectly. Then, with the LIDAR devices on board the SCIWS guns locked on to each of the incoming sentries and fired two bursts at each sentry, knocking each one out, one after the other. Using tightly packed oxygen packs the SCIWS guns were very similar to the New Empire ASHUM guns, and they made their mark this day in war as something to be reckoned with. The Freeks would find it much harder to destroy a Macabee submarine than they previously thought. Even with their post-modern technology the totally modern technology of the Macabee fleet would prove much more than a challenge.

After this hot battle underneath the waves the submarine stood silent once again, and waited for the coming Freek fleet.
The Macabees
26-11-2004, 20:25
ooc:Are you familiar with the concept of intelligence gathering? The Greifan Empire has its spys and informants everywhere. I would assume the same for every other nation. There are no "secrets" anymore. Oh, and do please explain to me the concept of a "rogue" sub. :rolleyes:
I could go ahead and write you a detailed 5000 word post about how it is my government came about this information, but it would be an absolute and utter waste of time seeing as how;
1) You most probably wouldn't bother reading it.
2) You'd shout GODMOD very loudly for all to hear.

So perhaps we could just spare ourselves all that bullshit and accept the fact that the source of the attack on AMF's fleet could not remain secret for long, and that anyone interested could very quickly find out its source.

Also, its "Presgreif", not "Presgrief", but then again you probably spell "Reich" like "Riech" too, huh?

How bout' you write that 5000 word report, because I'm not buying it... there's a lot of nations that use the same submarines I use, and you have NO WAY OF KNOWING IT WAS ME...whatsoever.... as explained in my "Crimson Tide of War" nobody even knew this submarine had left, except for the Grand Admiral located at Targul Frumos, Freemantia, and the Emperor..and your spies don't have any way of talking to these people.
Dumpsterdam
26-11-2004, 20:25
I could go ahead and write you a detailed 5000 word post about how it is my government came about this information, but it would be an absolute and utter waste of time seeing as how;
1) You most probably wouldn't bother reading it.
2) You'd shout GODMOD very loudly for all to hear.



OoC: You got 30 minutes, start typing. ;)
Presgreif
26-11-2004, 20:33
ooc: 1)You know, playing like this, I could have a few "rogue" submarines fire a few "rogue" nuclear missiles at your nation, and deny alll accountability.
2) I don't think its very fair that in a world far advances beyond today's technological standards, you suddenly demand that we all pull the old tech out of our museums and dust it off, for your own satisfaction. Perhaps AMF should ignore you if you refuse to use only spears and axes in this conflict.
3) I always thought RPing was about telling a good story, not doing everything you can to win, and declaring anything that poses a threat to you to be a GODMOD. But I guess times have changed. I don't much see the point of RPing with someone who won't by any means risk defeat.
Independent Hitmen
26-11-2004, 20:34
OOC: Thats not 5000 words :P
Presgreif
26-11-2004, 20:36
How bout' you write that 5000 word report, because I'm not buying it... there's a lot of nations that use the same submarines I use, and you have NO WAY OF KNOWING IT WAS ME...whatsoever.... as explained in my "Crimson Tide of War" nobody even knew this submarine had left, except for the Grand Admiral located at Targul Frumos, Freemantia, and the Emperor..and your spies don't have any way of talking to these people.

No, of course not, you're untouchable. As I've said before, I can play this dumb game with you too. Damn, I could have an entire "rogue" army blasting the shit out of your little country, and completely deny accountability for it. Why won't I do that? Cause its not fun. Oh crap, sorry Macabees, did I say fun? Sorry, sorry... :rolleyes:
Presgreif
26-11-2004, 20:37
OOC: Thats not 5000 words :P

:p
Praetonia
26-11-2004, 20:42
Also, before this war evolves, if you're going to pull out fantasy and post-modern technology I'm just going to ignore you, so it's best not to waste anybody's time here. Or we can say that I have a fantasy mechanism that nulls are fantasy and post-modern weaponry when fighting in my "war voids".... it's up to you.
OOC: ROFL! Says he who uses "RAMjet Super-Cav torpedoes" and supercav CIWS. And tanks armoured entirely with carbon nanotubes. I think you should take a good long look at your own tech...
The Macabees
26-11-2004, 20:43
OOC:
You're making yourself look like an idiot by taking it totally our of proportion. Your idea of fun is not my idea of fun. I don't see as fun that while I fight with a 2010 technology army, I have some other nation attack with "OMG SUPRPWRFUL SENTINELS11!!!11one" that are unbeatable.

I never said I was untouchable. This submarine isn't the end of days for AutoMagFreek's navy - I never said a single word that connoted this. It's you and your friends that have filtered everything out to put everything out of proportion.

I don't role play with post-modern, fantasy, and future nations for obvious reasons. It just doesn't work. There are a lot of nations out there that use modern technology, such as IDF, Hamptonshire, Sigmus Octavus, and other NATO nations - and I respect those ,and I agree to role play with those. However, when you bring out totally bullshit 3000 A.D. technology just to win I'm just going to ignore you.

The only reason AMF is so "great and powerful" is because he does exactly that to win. He makes it so he can't lose. And that's bullshit, and I'm not going to take it. I can take his "picket line", and I can take his rail gun technology, and I can take his sentinels, but I'm not going to role play with technology that is unbeatable.

So, I suggest you stop being such a pathetic hypocrit... and no, there's no way you know that submarine is mine... all you have done to support your argument is to directly attack me - and that just makes you more pathetic. So, give some actual information which supports your argument and MAYBE I'll heed to you.
The Macabees
26-11-2004, 20:47
OOC: ROFL! Says he who uses "RAMjet Super-Cav torpedoes" and supercav CIWS. And tanks armoured entirely with carbon nanotubes. I think you should take a good long look at your own tech...

OOC:

I think you should learn how to read...

the Principe III is totally plausible. It uses modern VLS technology employed by the US navy, and incorporates modern Russian technology, to make a better missile. The torpedo is carried by a missile engine, incorporating RAMjet, the same way the SS-N-19 does, and then seventy kilometers from target the propulsion "capsule" breaks, and drops its SuCav torpedo, which is a hybrid torpedo..I've seen the hybrid in action, and it works.... and this missile is totally plausible using even 2004 technology.

SuCav CIWS? Where did you get that from. The MAT-1 is a SuCav anti-torpedo torpedo..that has nothing to do with CIWS.... the SCIWS is just an ASHUM gun, which is also very plausable, although I agree, it is about 2010 technology.
Safehaven2
26-11-2004, 20:57
Come on guys, im looking forward to seeig a good rp here lets try not to ruin it. Mac and AMF are both great rpers and I wanna see them rp not another thread full of OOC bs cause if I wanted that I could just go check out a thread done by Nov 04 n00bs who've never rped before.
Presgreif
26-11-2004, 20:57
OOC:
You're making yourself look like an idiot by taking it totally our of proportion. Your idea of fun is not my idea of fun. I don't see as fun that while I fight with a 2010 technology army, I have some other nation attack with "OMG SUPRPWRFUL SENTINELS11!!!11one" that are unbeatable.

Well, its nice to see you've reduced yourself to insults. Good show. :rolleyes:

I never said I was untouchable. This submarine isn't the end of days for AutoMagFreek's navy - I never said a single word that connoted this. It's you and your friends that have filtered everything out to put everything out of proportion.

You purposely provoked one of NS's most prominent alliances into action against yourself, and when we actually reacted, you started spewing off at the mouth. Wow, I'm impressed.

I don't role play with post-modern, fantasy, and future nations for obvious reasons. It just doesn't work. There are a lot of nations out there that use modern technology, such as IDF, Hamptonshire, Sigmus Octavus, and other NATO nations - and I respect those ,and I agree to role play with those. However, when you bring out totally bullshit 3000 A.D. technology just to win I'm just going to ignore you.

If you don't roleplay with post-modern, fantasy, and future nations, then why in the hell are you engaging an alliance consisting of only such nations?

The only reason AMF is so "great and powerful" is because he does exactly that to win. He makes it so he can't lose. And that's bullshit, and I'm not going to take it. I can take his "picket line", and I can take his rail gun technology, and I can take his sentinels, but I'm not going to role play with technology that is unbeatable.

You on the contrary use technology which is not only unbeatable, it is undetectable, and impossible to connect in any way to your nation.

So, I suggest you stop being such a pathetic hypocrit... and no, there's no way you know that submarine is mine... all you have done to support your argument is to directly attack me - and that just makes you more pathetic. So, give some actual information which supports your argument and MAYBE I'll heed to you.

So far I've learned that I'm "pathetic" an "idiot" and a "hypocrit" because I dare to assume that I can hold you accountable for your actions. I mean look everyone, Macabees is untouchable. He has no spys or informants in his nation. There is no possibility of an alliance which has by all rationale been watching him and his allies for a very long time coming to any conclusions, or drawing any information about this attack. Especially not a "pathetic idiot hypocrit" like myself.

This is exaclty why we didn't want to have anything to do with you in the first place. Anything else you would like to add? :rolleyes:
Praetonia
26-11-2004, 21:03
OOC: 3000 AD technology? Who is using that? Im certainly not using it (since Im not even participating in this thread, which considering that you are calling me ignorant, you really should know). And you, exactly, are "my little friends"?

I do admit that some of the stuff in AMF's post was... borderline... but certainly not 3000AD or fantasy tech. Before you decide that I am just an AMF-worshipping moron because I deign to oppose your OMFG ub3r t3ch, I should tell you that I dont like AMF's use of Sentinels, because he claims (as far as I am aware) that the benefit of the clones is to provide resistance to disease and cancers, when cloning has been shown to do the opposite. I also dont like the famous Austo-Hungary destruction, in fact I ignore it, because Austo-Hungary never replied and never got to fight back.

However, you are claim to be using "a special super alloy" to double the range of your torpedoes, which seems odd considering that you think we are tech wanking. I would also have thought that one who is so knowledgeable as yourself would know that you cant realistically armour a tank entirely with nanotubes / buckey balls and then sell it for $32m or so.

As for the SuCIWS, that was not in relation to this thread, but another in which Im sure I saw you post something about SuCIWS. Although I dont oppose the idea that SuCav torps are possible, they arent in service with any modern navy and they do have signifcant disadvantages that you havent mentioned (a range of 100km is 'hopefull' to say the least). Regardless of this, I can see that this thread is going to turn into a techwank match between AMF and yourself, and so I am going to stay out of it.
IDF
26-11-2004, 21:09
OOC: if I have to get by Safehaven 2 that isn't a problem. My fleet has already passed it twice without incident, besides I can stay on Chellis' side of the Med and if Safehaven fires he will be instigating a war and I will use heavy forces on him. My fleet will move to AMF and no one will stop me. Lets see if you RWC people can do something without starting a war. The way you attacked AMF you have shown us you are warmongers.
The Macabees
26-11-2004, 21:13
OOC: No, no, stay, these OOC discussions, although they take away from the IC RP help get things together...

the superalloy I use was named... it's a THYMONEL 8 coating, I believe I put that in my first post. It protects from Hydrogen Embrittlement, as well as problems due to friction and pressure, as well as overheating. So the SuCav's previous range of 10kms (the Russian variant has a range of 10kms) to 20kms... the hybrid allows it a total range of 70kms, using a normal steam propulsion system for fifty of the seventy, and a "water RAMjet" or the SuCav propulsion, for the remainder of the distance.

------------------------------

I don't armor my tank with "nanotubes". The C60 buckyball bonded to the diamond helix was personally witnessed by Armacor, who is currently majoring in chemistry, and I just added the extra NiFe superalloy to it. The "nanotubes" you're talking about are the the thin strips the armor is layered on, which measure in nano-meters...not nanotubes.

----------


Presgrief - I still see no attempt to support your initial arguments. My submarine isn't undetectable - it's realistic. Modern SONAR systems can't detect a submarine with an anachoic tile layer on its ceramic composite hull unless about ten kilometers distance, tops thirty kilometers...and seeing how I fired from a distance of five hundred kilometers.... I rest my case.
Safehaven2
26-11-2004, 21:13
IDF-Im not looking for a war but if you are heading to fight mac then my fleet isn't going to just sit their and let you pass though Id like to do it peacefully.

Mac-Just rp with this FT shit, if he really goes that future tech we have more than one FT ally who could help and balance things out. Hey, look at it as a fun challenge.
Automagfreek
26-11-2004, 21:19
OOC:

TECHNOLOGY DEBATE-

1. Yes, I know was passive SONAR is. However, in order to transmit coordinates and readings from "crawler" to "crawler" you're going to need radio chatter - which can be picked up by any passive SONAR supervisor on a submarine, basically painting the entire picket-line of these "crawlers".

2. Don't the rail guns need oxygen to fire? Just a question. I mean, pure oxygen.

-----------------

AMF: Those missiles I fired, don't hit your ships as missiles. Had you read my post without unecessary haste, due to your obviously haughty nature, you would have figured out that seventy kilometers out from target the missile propulsion "capsule" breaks, dropping the 250kg (warhead size) MT-2 hybrid torpedo - once the torpedo reached 20kms from your fleet it begins to use its "water RAMjet" and supercavitates at 200knots...it uses an active SONAR and a LIDAR targeting guidance system to hit your fleet.... also, you may want to take in mind that one hundred kilometers from your fleet, as specified in my post... I turned on heavy jamming...


OOC: And YOU obviously didn't read my post after that, so can the insults right now. I specifically stated that my rail drivers fired into the water at your fancy little torpedos. Look, obviously you fight wars using tech wank as your weapon, whereas I use writing to fight my wars. You can piss and moan about stats and fancy weapons all you want, but when all is said and done good RP will come out on top.

You should have known that AMF is a POST-MODERN TECH NATION. Always has been, always will be. If you did not know this before moving your sub into my territory and firing on ME first, then allow me to bitch slap you with a large trout and tell you to get out of here. You instigated this fight, then you complain about the weapons I've used all along? Please......

If all you're going to do is whine and complain about everything I do and tech wank up the ass, then you can kindly pack your bags and leave. I do not appreciate you calling me a godmoder when clearly this is the tech bracket I have been in for over a year and a half. But I'm just supposed to change that because you're The Macabbes, right? :rolleyes:
Presgreif
26-11-2004, 21:22
ooc: If you reduce me to modern tech, then yes, I agree, there is no way for me to have even detected the presence of your submarine. And if this be the case then yes, I must agree to withdraw my initial post. I must state however that I will not be reduced to modern tech. Yes, mine is an ubertech, transdimensional, OMFG 5000 A.D. nation. If you won't roleplay with such a nation, then we have nothing further to discuss. And I'd like an apology for the name calling, if that's okay by you.
Praetonia
26-11-2004, 21:25
I don't armor my tank with "nanotubes". The C60 buckyball bonded to the diamond helix was personally witnessed by Armacor, who is currently majoring in chemistry, and I just added the extra NiFe superalloy to it. The "nanotubes" you're talking about are the the thin strips the armor is layered on, which measure in nano-meters...not nanotubes.
OOC: If you actually read my post then you will see that I said "nanotubes / buckey balls" (as hard as it must be for you to hear, I dont memorise all of your tank designs) and I was refering to the massive costs involved (yes I am aware that buckeyballs are possible and exist). Could you please stop patronising me and twisting what I say in order yo insult me.

IC: "Admiral, should I announce the deployment OMFG 10000 ships to the current war with The maccabees whilst explaining to you every piece of technology on board in a most unnecessary fashion so that the readers at home can see that they cannot win against the OMFG ub3r 1337z0rz 7echn010gy of the t3h D3m0cratic Imp3riu|\/|zorzorzorz t3hOMFG!!!11!!11!shift+1!!11! ?"

"No, that will not be necessary"

"Ok."

OOC: Im out of this thread.
IDF
26-11-2004, 21:25
IDF-Im not looking for a war but if you are heading to fight mac then my fleet isn't going to just sit their and let you pass though Id like to do it peacefully.


OOC: I'm not going to fight Mac as I don't know who did it. I'm sending my fleet near AMF where they will wait and see what happens. Even if this becomes a war it doesn't mean I will become involved. I'll only get involved in a war here if forced to so don't force me. My fleet should reach your blockade zone soon. If you try and stop them you will face consequences. If you are not looking for a war then just let them through. You have no IC reason to attack them as I have not IC reason to attack your ships as of now.
Automagfreek
26-11-2004, 21:31
IC: "Admiral, should I announce the deployment OMFG 10000 ships to the current war with The maccabees whilst explaining to you every piece of technology on board in a most unnecessary fashion so that the readers at home can see that they cannot win against the OMFG ub3r 1337z0rz 7echn010gy of the t3h D3m0cratic Imp3riu|\/|zorzorzorz t3hOMFG!!!11!!11!shift+1!!11! ?"



OOC: No shit.

Oh, and Mac. Before you go calling me a godmodder for figuring out it was you who did it, I have a totally modern tech...hell, 1960's way of figuring out you did it. But of course I like how in your post you managed to destroy every one of my underwater sentry bots. Obviously you are going to pitch a bitch every time I so much as fire a bullet at one of your troops, so to tell you the truth, RP with you is totally useless. You are totally unwiling to see your precious country hurt by me, and you'll do anything to stop it. Shit, I wouldn't be surprised if you and your RWC circle jerk aren't planning on using godmodded weapons with 6 paragraph explainations against me in order to win.

But the real kicker is how you whine about my Sentinels. It's so funny how just NOW, when your ass is on the line you complain about them. Good show Macabees....really, good show.... :rolleyes:
Safehaven2
26-11-2004, 21:39
OOC: I'm not going to fight Mac as I don't know who did it. I'm sending my fleet near AMF where they will wait and see what happens. Even if this becomes a war it doesn't mean I will become involved. I'll only get involved in a war here if forced to so don't force me. My fleet should reach your blockade zone soon. If you try and stop them you will face consequences. If you are not looking for a war then just let them through. You have no IC reason to attack them as I have not IC reason to attack your ships as of now.

Its not a "bloackade" my fleets just sitting there.
IDF
26-11-2004, 21:42
Its not a "bloackade" my fleets just sitting there.
OOC: OK, as long as your fleets take no hostile action against me we will be fine. There is no reason for you to fire on me and doing so will make you the bad guy here.

NOTE: My ships are sailing on heightened alert and my airbases have planes ready just in case you fire on me.
Safehaven2
26-11-2004, 21:46
OOC; AMF/Presgrief- what tech level are you guys? Im aproximatly 2020 and I believe Mac is about 2010 maybe a bit more.

IDF-My fleets actions matter on how this plays out.
IDF
26-11-2004, 21:49
IDF-My fleets actions matter on how this plays out.
OOC: fine, I will tell you I'm not going to do anything to provoke you and my fleet is just heading towards AMF's coast. They don't have any standing orders to attack anyone unless fired upon.
Automagfreek
26-11-2004, 21:49
OOC; AMF/Presgrief- what tech level are you guys? Im aproximatly 2020 and I believe Mac is about 2010 maybe a bit more.

IDF-My fleets actions matter on how this plays out.


OOC: I am of similar tech, like 2020 -2030 tops.
Samtonia
26-11-2004, 21:52
OOC- Ooh! Guess what a little bit of time on google will do for you. The Macabees, you are screwed. Want to know how any ship in the world could pick up the fact you launched the attack? Watch this.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/ss-n-19-specs.htm

Here's the important bits.
Guidance mode: inertial with command update, active radar/IR and anti-radar homing

"However, it seems more probable that the aircraft and the satellite feed target location data to the ships, and it is noteworthy that all the ‘Shipwreck’ launch platforms carry ‘Punch Bowl’ satellite communications systems. "

So guess what? The only way you could accurately target AMF from the distance you were at is with updates from either your satellites or your cmmand ships. So we've got those signals bouncing around. now how difficult do you think it is to track the communications being sent? Not too difficult at all.

Which means with little to no work, by you using this system, anyone on the planet can finger you as the culprit. Oh, and want to try to get out of this? You can't. If you get rid of the satellite correction, your missiles/torps aren't at all accurate. Put in a new system and that, along with all the extra weight from your ramjet system will make the torp impossible to use because of size/weight issues.

So you my friend are fucked. Forwards, backwards, sideways- anyway you look at it.
Independent Hitmen
26-11-2004, 21:52
Office block, Central New York

Whoooosh.

Papers that had been momentarily lifted into the air fell back down to the tables and floor as something went by and out the window.

Looking up from his work, Jack asked a co-worker

"What was that?"

The co-worker replied

"That was a decent RP going out the window"
Presgreif
26-11-2004, 21:52
OOC; AMF/Presgrief- what tech level are you guys? Im aproximatly 2020 and I believe Mac is about 2010 maybe a bit more.

IDF-My fleets actions matter on how this plays out.

ooc:Please, people, its greif, not grief, for a godamn. Greif, like Reich. Get it?

What tech level? Uber-future, abstract. Something like 3000. Though I would like to note that this in no way means I can't lose war to a modern tech nation. It usually just means that I have really flashy shit. :p
Samtonia
26-11-2004, 22:08
OOC-And as for your anechoic tiles reducing detection to 30 km.....get real.

From http://www.trafford.com/robots/99-0080.html

Sources indicate the Russian tiles are approximately 2.8 X 3.0 feet and four-inches thick. Earlier Russian anechoic tiles were smaller in area and thinner. These sources indicate the tiles reduce the acoustic signature of an Akula or Sierra between 10 and 20 dB. This reduction, in the frequency range of an American AN/BQQ-5 sonar, causes a reduction in detection range of between 25% and 50%. The detection range shrinkage is not constant because it varies with the temperature and composition of the water in which the sound is traveling. British sources indicate the two-layer system, also in use with the British navy, is similarly tailored to counter Russian sonars and shows similar results.

So first, for the tiles to work perfectly:
1. Water conditions have to be just right
and
2. The tiles have to be perfectly adapted to the sonar of the nation you're attacking. If other nations have sonar off by even a few hertz, your tiles aren't going to be anywhere near as effective.

Next, the tiles only:
1. Reduce effectiveness of sonar by up to 50%. Note that this is when tiles are specifically adapted to the nation you're fighting
2.Reduce sound levels by 10-20 dB. And you're moving and firing multiple torpedos/missiles. That makes a great deal of noise.

So your anechoic tiles aren't anywhere near the magical stuff you've made them out to be. Please read up on the tech you have. With ten minutes and Google, I've pointed out some very serious flaws in almost everything you've used up to this point. Sheesh. Do some research.
The Macabees
26-11-2004, 22:29
OOC:

Samtonia - The missile doesn't need to have coordinates of the fleet to be successful, it just has to fire in the right direction, and it has to be given roundabout coordinates - so it doesn't need to be constantly updated by a sattelite. It just needs coordinates given to it by the submarine crew (which come from an ELF, or SSIXS transmission, which is sattelite transmitted, but is only a single transmission).

The torpedo has a LIDAR/SONAR guidance system, meaning it has nothing to do with sattelites.


---------

So, I'm guessing this thread is over with....
Automagfreek
26-11-2004, 22:48
OOC:

Samtonia - The missile doesn't need to have coordinates of the fleet to be successful, it just has to fire in the right direction, and it has to be given roundabout coordinates - so it doesn't need to be constantly updated by a sattelite. It just needs coordinates given to it by the submarine crew (which come from an ELF, or SSIXS transmission, which is sattelite transmitted, but is only a single transmission).

The torpedo has a LIDAR/SONAR guidance system, meaning it has nothing to do with sattelites.


---------

So, I'm guessing this thread is over with....


OOC: So what your saying is your missiles are not guided and are basically area weapons, but then you say they are LIDAR/SONAR guided? According to what you just said, when my AI engaged in jamming, none of your missiles/torpedos should have hit.
Presgreif
26-11-2004, 22:56
So, I'm guessing this thread is over with....

No, there's still the matter of you apologizing for insulting me.
Chellis
26-11-2004, 23:03
OOC: So what your saying is your missiles are not guided and are basically area weapons, but then you say they are LIDAR/SONAR guided? According to what you just said, when my AI engaged in jamming, none of your missiles/torpedos should have hit.

OOC: Of course they would have hit, AMF. They are washed in the blood of christ. God won't let anything washed in the blood of christ be stopped.
Presgreif
26-11-2004, 23:04
OOC: Of course they would have hit, AMF. They are washed in the blood of christ. God won't let anything washed in the blood of christ be stopped.

Shut up old man! (jk) :p
Chellis
26-11-2004, 23:12
Shut up old man! (jk) :p

OOC: O.o thats a first
The Macabees
27-11-2004, 00:39
OOC: No, that's not what I'm saying. The missiles need rudemantary sattelite coordinates to fly otwards your fleet..however, since they drop their torpedo seventy kilometers out they don't need guidance to hit your fleet... the torpedo DOES need guidance, and for that it has a LIDAR/SONAR guidance, which active jammers dont affect.
New Empire
27-11-2004, 01:17
OOC:

*pops in with flame retardant vest, jumps into bomb crater*

If by jamming AMF means noisemakers, praire maskers, and the like, then yes, he could reduce the damage of the torpedo attacks. But generally, 'jamming' is a term used for radio wave stuff, radios, radars, whatever. One could also use an active out of phase emission system (sending out sonar pulses to confuse torpedo, Spain... err... Macabees, you know what I'm talking about).

*hides*
Vrak
27-11-2004, 01:20
OOC:

I'm curious, actually. I still don't see how anyone will be able to identify that is is a Maccabbean sub. I believe that AMF will be able to identify a sub is in the vicinity, but until they get a lot closer or unless they are able to surface the sub, I don't see how.

edit: The only way I think it might be possible is if different-shaped subs have a different sonar signature or something. Excuse me for floundering, but I can find loads of links on how to "identify a sub" but they don't seem to say (at least in my casual perusal) of exactly identifying what nation's sub it could be. And well, that also means that everyone would have to have a copy of everyone else's sub "profile" on a database somewhere, else it would pop up as "unknown".

And, sorry, but OMG SPIEZ everywhere doesn't cut it with me. That's like saying you suddenly know everything about my nation and pretending that I don't have active counter-intelligence.
Kriegorgrad
27-11-2004, 01:47
OOC:

*pops in with flame retardant vest, jumps into bomb crater*

If by jamming AMF means noisemakers, praire maskers, and the like, then yes, he could reduce the damage of the torpedo attacks. But generally, 'jamming' is a term used for radio wave stuff, radios, radars, whatever. One could also use an active out of phase emission system (sending out sonar pulses to confuse torpedo, Spain... err... Macabees, you know what I'm talking about).

*hides*

*turns into a posh 1800's factory owner from england and hops into the crater armed with a posh suit and a tea-pot*

"Tally ho, old chap! Appears to be a spot of flaming going on up there, the silly fools are always concerned with such petty riff-raff!"

Sorry, but why can't someone simply lose a few subs and then fight back later?

Also, if I interepted this correctly, AMF is the one who will lose subs: AMF, you have to take hits sometimes!

The Macabean navy has always been good, you have uber-land troops so why not let The Macabees have comparitively uber navy for this RP?
Automagfreek
27-11-2004, 02:15
Also, if I interepted this correctly, AMF is the one who will lose subs: AMF, you have to take hits sometimes!

The Macabean navy has always been good, you have uber-land troops so why not let The Macabees have comparitively uber navy for this RP?


OOC: *sighs, because yet another person has not read this thread*

I took the hits from his torpedos. Read back abit.
Safehaven2
27-11-2004, 02:20
Is this rp gonna continue then?
Automagfreek
27-11-2004, 02:22
Is this rp gonna continue then?


OOC: Yeah, but I'm going to create a new thread and use this as the OOC bitchfest thread.
Automagfreek
27-11-2004, 02:25
OOC:

I'm curious, actually. I still don't see how anyone will be able to identify that is is a Maccabbean sub. I believe that AMF will be able to identify a sub is in the vicinity, but until they get a lot closer or unless they are able to surface the sub, I don't see how.



OOC: No, I have a method to positively ID his sub using 1970's level tech. Trust me, I'll figure out it's him.
Safehaven2
27-11-2004, 02:39
OOC: Yeah, but I'm going to create a new thread and use this as the OOC bitchfest thread.

Alrite then, didn't want to post IC if this was gonna end.
New Empire
27-11-2004, 03:01
Well, AMF, you have to be careful, because during the '70s the US and other nations would actually trail Soviet subs in testing, sometimes sail right under them, in order to get sound patterns for tracking and so on... So certainly you could identify it as a first world, high class sub, it's just that IDing nationality may be another issue.
Automagfreek
27-11-2004, 03:04
Well, AMF, you have to be careful, because during the '70s the US and other nations would actually trail Soviet subs in testing, sometimes sail right under them, in order to get sound patterns for tracking and so on... So certainly you could identify it as a first world, high class sub, it's just that IDing nationality may be another issue.


OOC: No, I will be able to tell who it belongs to. Trust me.
Automagfreek
27-11-2004, 03:08
THIS THREAD IS CLOSED.

IC thread: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7565323
OOC thread: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7565330
Original thread: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=376172
Vastiva
27-11-2004, 06:31
OOC:

Samtonia - The missile doesn't need to have coordinates of the fleet to be successful, it just has to fire in the right direction, and it has to be given roundabout coordinates - so it doesn't need to be constantly updated by a sattelite. It just needs coordinates given to it by the submarine crew (which come from an ELF, or SSIXS transmission, which is sattelite transmitted, but is only a single transmission).

The torpedo has a LIDAR/SONAR guidance system, meaning it has nothing to do with sattelites.


OOC: How does a supercavitating torpedo have "LIDAR/SONAR" guidance, considering all the noise the supercavitation head creates in front of the torpedo?

Just call me Captain Obvious.