NationStates Jolt Archive

The prime minister of the Republic of Korea has announced today that Quinntonian troops will be invited into the ROK to train for a potential invasion by Dra-pol.

While the government of LRR does not seem happy about this reversal of policy by its supported party, the United Liberal Democrats, it can serve as an excuse to withdraw LRRA and LRRN elements from the country and redeploy them in former Bonstockian territories.

In fact, by this stage the once gigantic LRRA presence in Korea has been reduced to one armored division around Andong and a few brigades scattered across the south and Jeju-do island.

Reaction to this move from the Unification Party and Dra-pol has yet to be seen, but it is assumed that this move will not be viewed favorably.

The Central Directorature, Da’Khiem, The Choson People’s Republic

“Another step in the right direction.” That was the belief at the upper levels of Drapoel government. With the internationally agreeable LRR humanitarians increasingly out of the way, the arrival of easily vilified Crusaders was in itself not bad for propaganda.
But the propaganda war was a slightly different matter than the shooting war. As it happened, this move was quietly received as one favouring the CPRD in that respect as well. LRR soldiers hadn’t fought last time with millions of their countrymen under the watch of silent Drapoel artillery. For quite the opposite reason, Quinntonian soldiers last time hadn’t fought at all. How keen would they be to fight next time knowing that entering a war on the CPRD would spell the end for Quinntonian Dra-pol?

Nether the less, Da’Khiem issued a statement calling the invitation an affront to the status quo and the balance of power, and threatened to invite the Shining Sphere of Revolutionary Co-prosperity and the Igovian Soviet Commonwealth to deploy forces to Korea in response. That it came as a threat rather than a promise was owing to a desire to see any deployment moderated in its scope rather than stopped outright. It was considered a good thing to have Quinntonian troops in the south, just not too many of them.

-Busan-

From party headquarters, the Millenium Democratic Party announced its opposition to the proposed joint training exercises, stating that they believed the government was essentially 'selling out' to the Quinntonian interests in the government.

"At least when the Hudecians came they brought jobs and reconstruction aid, when the LRR came, they brought humanitarian aid, doctors and food. Now, the Quinntonians come, and what do they bring to us? Nothing but guns and threats." Party Spokesperson Jin Joo declared. "The MDP will work tirelessly to ensure that a better deal is struck for the people of Korea."

Of course, with less than 20% of the popular support, it isn't expected to have a significant impact on any attempts by the government to carry out with its plans.

Many members of the ULD party have voiced their opposition to the deployment of Quinntonian troops in the south, fearing that it will cause Dra-pol to shut up tighter. With the ULD's new policy of openness towards Dra-pol due to come out within the week, this cannot be a good thing.

In LRR, the departure of significant LRRA forces is also reviewed. Dra-pol could obviously justify a war against the Quinntonians much more easily than a war against the LRR forces, who were not firmly entrenched on a prime strip of coast in Dra-pol. But concerns in Indonesia are pressing, and the army can use the lighter-equipped, deployment friendly units which were once in Korea for operations on Sulawesi Island.

But for all the criticism and worrying, the LRRN yards remain only a short sail away, ready to respond should Dra-pol decide to attack.

The Quinntonian Dra-poel military officials announce that a small force equelling only 6000 troops and 250 tanks would be moved into a newly leased area on the South-eastern caostline of ROK. There Quinntonian aid organisations and civilian services agencies would be encouraged to build offices to serve the ROK population.
The Quinntonian military is going to contract ROK construction firms to work alongside Quinntonian engineering units to build the base that will house the experiemental military group. This, and the civilain housing units would create over 3000 jobs, and permanent positions would be available for ROK personel in evrything from administrative to labour jobs.

The New Alliance Party appluads this move as being a "step in the right direction," and reminds the critics of the plan that Quinntonia dispensed billions in aid and arms shipments during the Dra-poel invasion, and that they already are invested financially in Dra-pol as one of ROK's largest trading partners, a partnership worth billions. The party leaders were quoted as saying that, "Quinntonia has always been invested in ROk's future, ever since they set foot here all those years ago. If an invasion comes, it helps me to sleep a little better at night knowing that a few extra men are ready to lay down their lives for our beloved nation. I refuse to just sit idly by as Director Hotan parcels us up to be used in mad, personal quest for power and fame. We will stand, and we will fight. I pray that it never comes to war, but if it should come, let us be ready. And can anyone honestly say that they are sure that Hotan will sit on his side of newly conquered border and be content forever?"

WWJD
Amen.

The Quinntonians move into an area dotted with bunkers and fortifications built by LRRA engineers during the height of the war for reunification, currently manned by several companies of ROKA support troops, trained by the LRRA.

The first evidence of their LRRA influences might be the style in which the defenses are constructed- generally built to accomodate anti-tank missiles. They are built low to the ground and buried under mounds of dirt, with only the vision slit showing, but with a reasonable opening in the back to allow a quick escape. Obviously meant as more of a trip-up line as opposed to a position for sustained fighting.

Alaric (Galle), Victoria (Sri Lanka), Beth Gellert

At sea a trio of Igovian frigates could be seen closing from the mainland, considered necessary escort for a sensitive convoy headed through former Bonstockian waters. On the docks, the last containers were swung aboard the waiting Hyena Class transport. Such vessels were usually employed with Igovian expeditionary forces, their 47,000tons of empty hull able to accept some five hundred vehicles, but this one was preparing for a mission of trade.

MT-3 'Hotan' battle tanks similar to the 150 already in service with the Unified People's Army were the primary constituant part of the cargo bound for Korea. Along with them a small number of aircraft specifically requested by Da'Khiem at the last minute. On her way back the Hyena would carry raw materials drawn from Drapoel mines in partial compensation for the hardware.

"There's the Igovia." Said one docker, indicating the Nibiru Class light-carrier/assault-ship arriving behind the frigates. Soon, along with other small supporting vessels, the five ships were on their way to the distant peninsula.

-Ottawa-

"So they are going to get involved?" Thabo had expected this.

"It appears so Deputy Prime Minister," O'Hara responded. "I have our condemnation ready to be broadcast but... I thought that it would be better if we sent a more convincing message to BG."

"What are you thinking?"

"Although our naval assets are still being repaired, and many of our troops are dispatched to Borneo, Celebes and other islands in the Pacific, it could be possible to increase funding for the ROKA and the ROKAF."

"They already are building dozens of F-22s and we have sent them nearly 25 H-2s (Avro Arrow varient)," Thabo snorted. "We can't give them much more without stripping our own defences."

"I was planning on dispatching a third air corps to the Korean peninsula, or at least threaten to it might cause BG to rethink its plan," O'Hara quickly added. "Otherwise, we'll fund Hudecia Industries to subsidize the production of a second drydock facility in Ulsan and another aviation assembly plant up in Pohang. Hudecia Industries, through its subsidiary Korea Military Corporation has already turned Pohang and Ulsan into thriving metropoitans."

"We can't keep only sending military aid though," Majiowski the Internal Affairs Minister sighed. "This time lets increase humanitarian aid as well, and promote the newly built university in Pohang. We have many engineers and physicists that would be willing to travel and teach there, for a price."

"Good idea."

The Beddgelen transaction was completed smoothly, with arms being provided second hand after minimal use but far below their usual asking price. The MT-3 had defences viable in the face of opposition by ATGW's such as those deployed by LRR-sponsored forces, though not so close to impervious as were the BG-issue MT-4 tanks, none of which had yet been exported.

Reports of F-22 aircraft being provided to the south wiped-away massive portions of the previously existing resistance movement regarding Igovian arms exports to Dra-pol. In the past, BG had sold a small number of tanks and a hand-full of MLRS to Dra-pol, and in return had recieved raw materials mined from Korea, anti-ship-missile technology developed by Dra-pol in conjunction with an unnamed third party, and small political favours yet unreleased to the wider world. The south appeared to be receiving massive handouts in return for absolutely nothing. It appeared that the counter-revolutionaries had taken-off their gloves. Barefist boxing with a six and a half foot inebriated Celt was a horrifically bad idea, and the ISCBG resolved to join the battle. This shipment would no longer be considered the last. The Igovian Soviet Commonwealth would be the CPRD's USSR. Further ships were loaded.

If ever there had been a good way to encourage socialist economics and to discourage the capitalisation of Kosong, this was it. A war of metal, sham-democratic faux-capitalists against pure communists. The ISCBG would wipe the floor with the indecisive counter-revolutionaries. Dra-pol would be moved from the numeracy-proficient quality deficient party to the numeracy proficient quality-dominant party.

However close LRR said it was to the ROK, it is unlikely that it is getting anything more than a very limited number of Spike-ER missiles for its own use.

Perhaps one of the major mistakes made when engaging the LRRA is the assumption that there will only be a few missiles in the air at any time. With just about every combat vehicle equipped with one anti-tank missile, probably the Spike-ER, and quite a large number equipped with the Spike-EER, a longer-ranged weapon, any group of tanks attacking a regular LRRA division can expect itself to be in danger at ten kilometers distance from the actual lines of opposing tanks, much more when the TM-13 missiles, essentially guided artillery rockets, are taken into account, as well as artillery and air power.

Tank ECMs can perhaps defend against the regular, run of the mill surplus soviet equipment even when used in large numbers, but any tank army facing something close to a regular LRR formation should be prepared to take heavy losses without even closing with the actual lines. A line of domestic ATGMs with modular guidance heads allows for fast adaptation to different combat environments, and engagement of a very wide range of targets.

And while the ROKA does not come close to this capability, it can still, with modified soviet missiles, engage any tank operated, sparing the double-barreled Sinoese beast equipped with an MRL, one or two kilometers outside the tank's engagement range.

As was stated before, Hudecia had not been providing the Korean government with free F-22s, these fighters had been in production at a facility based in Pohang. Although the facilities were built by Hudecian donations and the workers trained by the Hudecian tradesmen, they were selling the fighters to the Korean government. (OOC: although this is not known, the fighters are sold at an unbelieveably low rate thanks to the subsidization of the industry by Hudecia Industries, which is independent of the Hudecian government but the CEO is the former leader of the Conservative Party). Accusations of Hudecia giving away F-22s were simply unfounded then.

The same applied to the newly recreated Korean Navy. Hudecia actually had been purchasing several frigates and destroyers from Korea (OOC: at incredibly high prices).

The justification for the proposed deployment of a third air corps to Korea was the continuing threats posed by the collapse of the Bonstockian 'empire'. These units, it was said, would be moved south once the situation in Sulawesi was stable enough.

The Quinntonian engineers and troops begin immediately setting up a chapel to be used for their daily worship as first priority, and then begin to build more permanent structures in order that this might be defended if need be.

There are massive aprtment complexes, reinforeced with concrete andother housing projects that are being built in and around the base, with the hope that they may be used for the many people who will be hired on in a permanent basis to fulfill them many roles that will be needed for the ditribution of humanitarian aid.

Included in the construction, and peaking the amount of workers under contract at more than 5000, much more than origibally thought, are large hospitals and future schools taht are being designed for use on a permenent basis, with the understanding that upon Quinntonia leaving here, they will be donated to ROK.

OOC-Although it seems as though we are giving aid for nothing, it couldn't be further for the truth, we are giving preferencial treatment to ROK, but no more than any of our nations is doing for former Bonstock. What is Quinntonia getting out of it? We are getting an opprotunity to show the love of Jesus Christ to people. Also, the new consumer base doesn't hurt. Yes, we are probably going above and beyond for ROK. But this is nothing compared to the aid packages that were recieved by Dra-pol from Quinntonia long before Beth Gellert ever showed up on the scene. Hundreds of billions in infrstructure, power plants, factories, mines, advanced farming techniques, hospitals, universities, other schools. Hell, I educated five thousand of Dra-pol's finest minds at Quinntonian Univeritites, paying for their tuition and housing. The difference is, Dra-pol used that to insert terrorists into Quinntonia. Dra-pol also martyred a hundred thousand civilian aid workers in its borders.
You want to be Dra-pol's USSR, go ahead, but that will just probably lead to a cold war.

WWJD
Amen.

Back in LRR, the TM-14, long a twinkle in the service's eye, has been finished by the state armories.

The TM-14 is viewed as a replacement for the spike series missile in all variants. The infantry-portable variant, called the TM-14A, will have a range of 4.5 kilometers, and will probably be carried on the platoon level.

The standard variant, TM-14B, will usually be mounted on BMP-2 infantry fighting vehicles, light Jeeps, BV-206s, and main battle tanks. The B variant sports a range of 9 kilometers.

The C variant is optimized for use off of the BMP-5 series APC, attack helicopters, and Striker and BMP-2T tank destroyer vehicles. It has a range of 10 kilometers, and due to its larger size, is better suited to be deployed on these larger platforms.

The TM-14 is a cheap, mass-producable ATGM. It is very difficult to jam, but less likely to hit its target than other missiles (75-85% hit ratio, generally). It makes up for this accuracy problem with a range superior to the leading foreign competitors, and a system of modular seeker heads that allow the missile to engage a variety of different target types effectively. Seeker heads include active laser guidance, fire-and-forget IR, and radar-seeking, specifically developed to defeat Iron Blood GT-6s and their hardkill missile defense systems.

The TM-14 comes along with the arrival of superior MBTs to Dra-pol. While its primary job would, without a doubt, be to fight Sinoese tanks, it should work against the Hotan as well.

The ATGM is the LRRA's way of making up for its shabby tank force. Operating only some 10,000 second and third rate tanks, with a small contingent of Challengers forming the high end of the tank force, the LRRA uses its tanks in support of infantry and anti-tank units.

However, the LRRA can boast some of the best engineer and APC vehicles in all of Asia, perhaps all the world.

But again, for fear of provoking a dangerous arms race, it is highly doubtful that anything getting close to front-line LRRMFs weaponry will ever get into the hands of the ROKA.

Increasingly, however, LRR finds itself supporting the ROK more and more with tanks, older naval vessels, and older aircraft in order to prop up its defenses against Dra-pol. It is established that Dra-pol being in control of the entire Korean peninsula at this stage, before Dra-pol society becomes more open and free, would be a bad thing at best.

(OOC: I don't know what all that OOC stuff was in aid of. It doesn't seem to relate to the situation in any significant way. Nations like Quinntonia and Hudecia are propping up the ROK as part of their sphere of influence and to spread their ideology, BG is starting to prop-up the CPRD in response as part of its ideological sphere. If that creates a cold war situation, well, yeah, there you go, we've got a cold war situation. It seems obvious enough that it wouldn't need clarifying OOC. It's just the condition of the RP'd environment at the moment.
As an aside, I'm inclined to think that cost and performance are trade-offs for ATGWs as well as everything else in the world. I mean, if they're cheap, they probably don't have the best, latest countermeasure resistance and what not, and if they do, then they're probably not cheap.
Sorry, I don't have anything IC to add until BG and Dra-pol work out the details of future trade and aid.)

People’s Navy frigates to receive refit in ISCBG

For only a relatively short time has the Drapoel People’s Navy has operated two frigates, one as flagship of each fleet. The vessels, called Kurosian I Class, were built in Al Khals by converting Omar Class light patrol frigates to serve Drapoel needs. Now they are set for another round of modifications abroad, this time in Beth Gellert. The Yellow Sea Fleet’s flagship Hotan has already left Drapoel waters on its long voyage to India, where it will be refitted and returned before the East Sea Fleet’s Kurosian departs sometime next year. It is thought that the ships will be met and refuelled by an Igovian Benefactor Class tanker around half way through the voyage each way.
Currently fitted with Al Khali air and surface search radar and sonar and armed with two triple Qian Wei anti-ship missile tubes, a 100mm gun, four dual-purpose 30mm cannon, three 14.5mm machineguns, an ASW mortar, and DRAR-19 SAMs, the vessels are already reasonably formidable. It is probable that the refits will focus on defensive systems, likely adding Beddgelen passive countermeasures, possibly replacing close-range guns with BG-CIWS, and removing DRAR-19 in favour of much more capable Loviatar-S vertical-launch systems. Some manner of EM shielding improvement may be incorporated, but the main point of discussion is on Beth Gellert’s deadly Charioteer anti-ship missile. Mounted by one class of Igovian frigate and carried on certain nuclear submarines, the missile would certainly make the People’s Navy able to confront and threaten enemy carrier battle groups as never before. The main problem with the theory is that the six-missile vertical launch system used by Beddgelen frigates is thought by some to be too large for incorporation aboard the smaller Drapoel ships.


Drapoel South Korea

“Laser threat detected, searching... two-point-five miles ahead, neutralised.”
“Obstacle ahead, come right...”
“...multiple laser threats! Searching... beyond range!”
“Grenades! Grenades!”
“Grenades deployed.”
“Section, withdraw under smoke! Gunner, suppressing fire beyond three miles!”

The 1st Armoured Brigade’s training regime had significantly intensified in the final quarter of the year as the Republic’s economic health improved with growing trade inside the Shining Sphere of Revolutionary Co-prosperity –Yamani oil being key in the matter- and Igovian aid flowing into Korea. In these exercises Unified People’s Army formations were making increased use of their mechanisation and the communications shortfalls that stranded an entire Assault Division in the extreme south during the war seemed to have been brushed aside. This also showed in the UPA’s relation to the People’s Army Air Force, which was not only bumping up its pilots’ flying times but more closely and quickly co-ordinating its significant attack strength with army manoeuvres. The training was characteristically brutal, and several persons would sustain injury before a major operation is concluded.

Well, since you figure the LRRA only operates a small fraction of the tank force that it can credibly use, at least expensive ATGMs can be afforded. And even if they miss, the tanks still can't fire back for a while.

And there's still the TM-13 ATGM, which is essentially a BM-21 rocket with a seeker head slapped onto it, and that can attack tanks way outside of their gun range.

One of the reasons why I would imagine the TM-14 being relatively cheap is the fact that it is made from recycled Spike missiles. In fact, it is essentially a Spike ripoff with a fancier sales brochure and a larger motor slapped on. It is true that it probably won't have the greatest resistance to jamming, but the advantage to a cheap missile is that you'll have a ton in the air at any time. And since tank jamming systems have become so common these days, its better to have a ton of missiles, so at least one will hit, rather than a few very expensive missiles which will probably miss anyway.

Here's a modified description of the TM-14:

The TM-14A and TM-14B are the most numerous ATGMs in the LRRA's inventory. They have a long range (5km for the TM-14A, 9.5km for the TM-14B), and are cheap to build and operate. Their only drawback is their low accuracy (can drop to below 50% when jammed). Their fire-and-forget characteristics make them an ideal choice for infantry units, their supporting vehicles, and logistics troops who would be in grave danger if they sat and actively guided a missile onto target. Its heavy dispersal among all LRRA units also ensures that many missiles will be in play at any time.

The TM-14C is a much more expensive system, which outfits special carrier vehicles such as BTR-80, BMP-2, and Alvis Striker variants. With a maximum range of 12-14 kilometers, the missile has easily the longest reach of any ground-launched ATGM in Asia. The TM-14C is very difficult to jam, and is very accurate owing to active laser guidance coupled with IR backup.

The system’s drawback is the fact that it requires active guidance to target. This might take anywhere from 18 to 30 seconds approaching long range, and the carrier vehicle is, during this time, required to maintain its laser lock on the target. The TM-14C missile is also much heavier than the TM-14A and B missiles, therefore increasing reload time and decreasing missile payload.

OOC: Well, I suppose the ROK better hope that the CPRD doesn't attack during the rainiest parts of the year :)
Before BG State Arsenals start working on the next generation of counters to long range ATGWs, you are sure that it is possible and practical to have a modern portable laser on a target fourteen kilometres away? I'm not sure that I've encountered such ranges before, and just want to check before BG starts doing the same sort of thing with its laser defence weapons ;)

OOC: I'll say this, yes, we are propping up South Korea. So what? Big deal, North Yaman has been propping up Drapol. So what? Alls fair in love and war. But if its an arms race you want to start then be my guest.

IC:

Korea Military Corporation (KMC), having completed its current contract to supply 25 F-22s and 25 F-18s to the ROKAF which it signed under the previous government is looking for another government contract. CEO Hee-Chui has approached cabinet for the purpose of promoting the company and its products.

"We cannot rely on the Hudecians or the LRR to provide us with top of the line equipment, however, KMC can give us the best the world has to offer and is supporting our economy right here at home." Was a common theme when speaking to cabinet members.

KMC is also under contract to supply the ROK Naval forces with 5 Okpo class destroyers and 8 Ulsan class frigates. It also has a contract to build 2 Okpo class destroyers and 5 Ulsan class frigates for Hudecia.

OOC: Uhm, yeah. That's what I said- various nations have been propping-up the South, and so BG is doing similar for the North. I don't understand the need for all this stating the obvious and then repeating what I say, heh. Also, in response to the slightly odd OOC accusation that I am starting an arms race, I'd say, "Huh?" I don't have a problem with it, it's just part of the RP, but I don't understand how you can reconcile the first part of your OOC commentry with that accusation. I am not starting an arms race... we are. You can make unbalanced accusations like that IC for propaganda purposes, but it doesn't make any sense at all OOC.

Just one final comment on a slight tangent, though, I do hope that people are not losing sight of some pretty concrete limits on the ROK's capacities today. Its population has been drastically reduced by war dead, emmigration, and more significantly by the annexation of its most populace areas into the CPRD, which in spite of significant displacement towards the south has taken millions further from the total. Without becoming more militarised than the north, there's only so many aircraft squadrons and large warships like destroyers and what not that can be realistically maintained. Maybe Hudecia is doing that, I'm just making the comment off-hand because I got the impression that other states were offering or transfering major vessels and things, but so long as someone's co-ordinating it on the ROK end it should be fine.

OOC: Well.. when I was 'in control' of the Korean government, this is what I was doing. Hudecia was spending a lot of money to prop up the Korean military forces through back channel methods so it wouldn't create any arms races. But, now that LRR is 'in control' of the Korean government its up to him whether or not he continues what I was doing.

You'll note that my numbers of troops in ROK have not increased even though LRR decreased his compliment (actually I pulled out about 5000 troops when the Bonstockian war began and those troops haven't came back at all). The only thing I've done is manouvre some better equipment into ROK hands while overall troop numbers decrease.

There is nothing wrong (in our view) with providing South Korea the means to defend itself properly considering that its army was obliterated in the first war. Its airforce was gone.. its navy at the bottom.. its army in tatters.. we started from scratch.

So can ROK support 5 destroyers, 8 frigates and about 100 odd fighters? You bet it can. Canada can do that on a bad day.

Drapol is not in that situation. Its army is good, its air force improving, its navy... okay.. well.. maybe its navy needs help. But giving Drapol guns is like saying Americans are undefended.

And my comments were not directed at you about the supporting.. they were more for my allies to see.

OOC: Yeah, I wouldn't dispute that the ROK can support those kinds of figures.
I would dispute that the likes of Da'Khiem and Portmeirion would fail to notice that the ROK was receiving help in building-up its military, of course. Dra-pol's closed society could cover up much (but not all) of such things if it tried, but the ROK would, for example, struggle to hide new front-line fighters that it didn't previously have, unless it wasn't giving them any flying time, much as most other capitalist nations would struggle to hide industries dedicating large resources to exporting such things. Details would no doubt be obscured, but yes, BG arms exports and aid would increase in response to such things, as has been the case. I think this is all flowing realistically enough.

Of course, while you say in fairly simple terms that the ROK is defending itself from the CPRD, BG sees a conflict of ideology being played out, and supports the side it considers most progressive in the face of regression rather than the side most defensive in the face of aggression. I know that maybe it's not ideal to be saying this OOC, but then, to be honest, it is the sort of thing that you'd hear if you visited an Igovian university or such institution.

Oh, and I don't think that North Yaman is propping up anything (no offence NY :) ). That nation is one of the smallest in the RP circle, and is hardly one of the wealthiest or most powerful. I think that it's more or less just an important trade partner. It props-up Dra-pol like France props-up Germany, unless I'm very much mistaken.

OOC: Well, I suppose the ROK better hope that the CPRD doesn't attack during the rainiest parts of the year :)
Before BG State Arsenals start working on the next generation of counters to long range ATGWs, you are sure that it is possible and practical to have a modern portable laser on a target fourteen kilometres away? I'm not sure that I've encountered such ranges before, and just want to check before BG starts doing the same sort of thing with its laser defence weapons ;)

OCC: Mabye I should change it to radar guidance. That would solve the problem of being a target, and would also solve the problem of carrying a laser.

IC:

With the establishment of a two-bloc situation over the Korean peninsula, the LRR government tries very very hard to withdraw from it.

In an official statement, the government announces:

"LRR cannot be a party to the two-bloc status forming in Asia over the issue of Korea any longer. Such a situation is infiniely harmful for the entire region, especially the peninsula. Therefore, all combat military units will be withdrawn from the Korean peninsula. We will, however, remain involved in diplomatic negotiations to resolve the impending crisis peacefully."



Behind the scenes, however, the government tries to ensure that extra Hudecian troops will fill in the gaps left by the LRRA's withdrawl. If not the Hudecians, the Quinntonians would probably be willing to send in more units.

And also, the majority of the donated weapons have been recieved by the ROK military already.

It might surprise a Dra-pol pilot to see a MiG-23 flying along in the colors of the ROKAF, or a Grisha class corvette flying the Flag of the Republic Of Korea.

However, such equipment was only ever ment as intermediate propping-up until the ROK military could get itself properly supplied. While the modified Grishas are actually good vessels, able to handle their ASW and AA tasks quite well despite their age, the majority of the surplus equipment supplied from LRR is not stuff that the military of any respectable economic power would want to keep.


The government really doesn't want to have to deal with being a partial party in Korea anymore. While it definately wants a solution, the government sees a less partial position as the key to credibility. However, there's no telling how things will turn out. Perhaps unification will have to wait until Hotan dies.


Back in LRR proper, the TM-14 is distributed among the LRRA. It proves easy to use and maintain, and its similarity to the spike is a major component of this. It appeared as though the LRRA had found a solution at long last to its anti-tank needs. A cheap, fire-and-forget missile that could achieve kills in a jammed environment (albeit with the odds in favor of the jammer) was finally in the hands of the army and airforce.

In place of the TM-14C's deployment on certain plaftorms (the BMP-2 mostly), the armories have been testing eight-missile TM-14B launchers.

The winter excersizes are by now in full tilt, and observers from all over Asia (including Sino, Beth Gellert, and Dra-pol, as well as the friendlier nations) are invitied to attend and watch the LRRA parade around and brawl with itself, while the airforce performs high-speed passes overhead, pretending to strafe and bomb. The navy is usually left out of the winter excersizes, mostly due to the fact that the navy can't really be involved in most of what happens in the winter excersizes.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/t7201.jpg

A T-72 series MBT on manouvers near Novgorod.

Oh, and I don't think that North Yaman is propping up anything (no offence NY :) ). That nation is one of the smallest in the RP circle, and is hardly one of the wealthiest or most powerful. I think that it's more or less just an important trade partner. It props-up Dra-pol like France props-up Germany, unless I'm very much mistaken.

OOC: Not at all BG. NY is a nation of only fifteen million. The Dominion has basically no force projection. No navy at all(though it has been landlocked until, well, now). Troops are tied up on the Xiaguo border, stationed in the Ogakar plain(triangle between Taithin, Hairukamaha and Thesho) or aiding the reconstruction efforts at Sol Sanctum.

The only deptartment that really got any serious funding was the air cavalry of the Arrowguard, which numbers around 150 Raven tilt rotor transports and 100 Dragonfly attack tilt rotors. This took up most of the Arrowguard funding, and its only other units are the outdated, but surprisingly unique, Mako propeller Ramjet fighters. And all these were bought from Spyr, which you can viewed as the supporting state of Lyong.

However, the Yamani oil fields (the oil reserves extend in a circle around the Spyran border city of Yamaki-ro) have been shipping oil through Chotei into Dra-pol ever since the end of the last conflict in the on-going Korean Unification war. Yaman has also been part of the Starfire defence system, placing as many advanced anti-missile defences in Yaman as possible.

OOC: Thanks Yaman for pointing out my point exactly. And I don't think Drapol will mind me saying that he needs of all things... OIL! What does N. Yaman have? You guessed it ;)

Without Yamani oil, Drapol would have a lot of trouble. So in that sense, N. yaman is 'propping up' Drapol.

IC:

The Hudecian government categorically refused to increase its permanent military forces stationed in South Korea stating that its already stretched army could not afford to.

Behind the scenes, Hudecia was furious that LRR would abandon the nation, but then decided that if it meant an increase in Quinntonian troops there that it would end up being okay. Hudecian diplomats contacted their LRR counterparts to see if this was a drastic change in policy on LRR's part.

(OOC: Trade- propping every civilisation in history (except for Dra-pol when it was absolutely isolationist)! Dra-pol is receiving no one way aid from anyone. So far as I'm aware, the Yamani are getting materials and/or cash in exchange for their oil, and BG's military aid is in the form of cut prices and a trade balance in Dra-pol's favour, which (with the exception of four SAM batteries delivered before the war even started) is something that's only started since the ROK started flying F-22s around, and so on. It's all a pretty minor point, really, so long as it's understood that it's a two way street and not all the fault of the communists or something daft like that. Uhm, now, what was I plotting before the damn forums drove me to madness?)

OOC-Damn Commies causing all those problems.

IC- The Quinntonian government is absolutley shocked!!!! This uneccessary withdrawl from Dra-pol is seen as an attck on the ROK by Quinntonia.
The Quinntonian government asks that, if LRR is resolute in their need to move all their troops out of ROK, then we ask that he waits for 10-18 months, so that proper transition arrangements can be made, leaving suddenly would leave the ROK naked and defenseless, with Quinntonia and Hudecia otherwise occupied.
WWJD
Amen.

While the LRR government is somewhat confused as to why Quinntonia would particularly lament over the departure of what is equivalent to two somewhat undermanned tank divisions, equipped with vehicles which are not great improvements over Dra-pol forces, the government agrees to wait for at least a year before withdrawing vital anti-tank, support, and artillery units.

Hudecian diplomats will probably find that the troops drawn from the ROK are only leaving because they can be replaced. While LRR supports ROK soveriegnty in the short term (barring any extenuating circumstances), it has been stated that eventually the government would like to see the peninsula unified. LRR's confidence in Quinntonia's large and powerful military is also expressed, and it is kind of clear that an M1A2 will stand a better chance of protecting the ROK than a T-72 with some extra armor slapped on.

The government also makes it clear that it is not easy to withdraw, and it really does feel very guilty about what it is about to do. It is feared that LRR is abandoning the cause of human rights and anti-imperialism for political manouvering, and therefore diplomats from the ROK and ROK-allied nations will probably find the state armories quite willing to supply upgraded T-72s and surplus Spike missiles for very low prices, along with surplus Volgostani MiG-23s, dumped in favor of the Su-30. And while the entrance of olc Soviet military equipment into the ranks of the Korean military might be viewed as a scheme to cheat the ROK out of money, like how uncle Jethro sold those people a used car without an engine for a few thousand dollars, the state armories also prove quite willing to make upgrades and modifications to the airframes to suit the ROKAF.

But LRR diplomats also ask Hudecian and Quinntonian officials if they would support a proposed 'Korea Treaty,' which would do the following:

1. Ensure that Dra-pol would eventually get the whole peninsula

2. Ensure that all the people of the ROK and Quinntonia would not be signing their death warrant, and would be gaining a similar or improved standard of living.

Of course, in order to get Dra-pol's compliance, Beth Gellert and North Yaman would probably have to be on-board.

In Dra-pol, with the economy doing well, a bumper harvest being capitalised upon by the acquisition of spare parts for worn agricultural and other infrastructure equipment, the balance of trade improving, and the early great expenses of war beginning to wear-off, rations are rising and taking moral with them. After going through a long period of extreme hardship after the liberation, some South Koreans new to the CPRD are glad simply to find on arriving at their much altered supermarkets that they are allowed an extra box of eggs or whole fish, or that some of the compensation they were promised on reposession of such things as the family car has finally been awarded. An extra yard of fabric here, a new bicycle tyre there, an extra pane of glass and permission to collect more firewood. Merely making life a little easier after clinging so desperately over the abyss does wonders for some and means little to others as here and there conspirators continue to work against Da'Khiem.
Mass Games are organised to build upon moral gains and promote unity, and radios tilt the balance towards songs rather than news and speeches as televisions play childrens cartoon movies.
What speeches do remain tend to talk of imperialist wars in wider Asia and to cite disgusting foreign claims of Drapoel imperialism, pointing out that the ROK is but one client state to a global profiteering machine.

South Korean formations within the UPA remain badly under strength as volunteer rates continue to run below targets, but as northern troops fill out the ranks, reasonably impressive parades become again possible. Many southern-heavy units are deployed in the north in order to increase soldiers' interaction with those who live as part of the CPRD without a second thought, and in turn northern soldiers account for the majority in the south as they necessarily stand prepared to meet any invasion.

Training has intensified, yes, but so have rations afforded to the soldiers, most of whom live more comfortably than the people they protect.

Little of this is likely to be noticed outside the CPRD. The growing confidence of the People's Republic does however manifest itself outwardly. PAAF fighters have begun to challenge foreign aircraft even flying close to the border, often acquiring radar locks or venturing across the border to goad the enemies. Frequently, smaller Drapoel Ultra Shinden and Fishbed aircraft will draw near only to perform radical turns away from hostile planes, displaying their superior turning circles. Cardinal fighters supplied by Beth Gellert have several times locked on to foreign aircraft from over the horizon before breaking off, the PAAF apparently delighted with its new found ability to engage from beyond visual range.

But LRR diplomats also ask Hudecian and Quinntonian officials if they would support a proposed 'Korea Treaty,' which would do the following:

1. Ensure that Dra-pol would eventually get the whole peninsula

2. Ensure that all the people of the ROK and Quinntonia would not be signing their death warrant, and would be gaining a similar or improved standard of living.

Of course, in order to get Dra-pol's compliance, Beth Gellert and North Yaman would probably have to be on-board.


No. Dra-pol has proven itslef cruel, inhuman and corrupt time and time again. The almost 250,000 civilians that have been martyred, 100,000 that were helping to rebuild and modernise that country have proven that all too well.
The Quinntonian government wishes for Korea to again be united, but only under a government that is democratically chosen by ALL its people, in a fair and equitable election process. When that happens, and the people of Korea ask Quinntonia to leave, then we will. Until that time, we stand on gaurd for the people of Korea against the tyrant and butcher of Dakhiem, Hotan.

WWJD
Amen.

Hudecia supports the idea of a united Korea, however, we feel that it must occur under a democratic government.

Since increasing ties with the Igovian Soviet Commonwealth, the Choson People's Republic has begun to more vehemently defend itself on a democratic platform. Following the Igovian pattern, Drapoel spokesmen decry the systems in place within societies such as Hudecia, Quinntonia, and even LRR as, 'false democracies' and a rare event -the translating into Drapoel of new books- has occurred. The Green Book by Mu'ammar al-Qadhafi has been adapted with careful adaptation of sections with a religious bent, and many of comrade Graeme Igo's lectures and essays, including the article On Mass Motivation and the Soviets have also been printed in Dra-pol. Comrade Graeme has apparently been invited to speak at the Seoul university.

It is now uniformly the Drapoel Communist Party's contention that the multi-party political system is dictatorship in disguise, that it sets comrade against comrade and encourages lying, slander, and competition where there should be unity, dialouge, and progress. The enemy contention that Dra-pol is without democracy because it does not follow the system presently ascribed to by aggressing societies is reported as extreme arrogance and as highly naive- "the work of ignorent men who would be on our side if only they understood" as comrade General Hozaro put it.

Meanwhile, Dra-pol's local elections have continued in spite of difficulties in Seoul and Igovian pressure to replace them with open senates or people's congresses.

Here is the new member thread.
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7566460#post7566460
WWJD
Amen.

Rather than take offence to the recent attack on the Hudecian political system, the Hudecian government took to opportunity to praise Drapol for its efforts in treating the people of South Korea with respect and taking efforts to ensure their fair treatment.

"In any war, it is difficult to treat those who you conquer with the dignity they deserve. However, when I look to the north of us here, we see that Drapol has taken extraordinary measures to help South Koreans adjust to the lifestyle of Drapol. In addition to this, Drapol has taken measures to adjust to the South Koreans demands, by having some elections for example." Said the Hudecian Interior Minister in a visit to Busan.

Hudecia does not see the need for a multi-party system like in Hudecia or Quinntonia, but it does see the need for some sort of representation through true democratic elections.

Major facts of LRR politics were probably overlooked in the official Dra-pol assessment:

There are really no political parties. The government is essentially a large representative body who's level of dissent to one another is usually in the form of different-colored sweaters.

While it is true that LRR is 'ruled' by a pope, in practice his job consists of overseeing the ridiculously ornate and loud governmental ceremonies and furnishing his palace (shack) with plenty of golden statues of Freddie Mercury.

So in conculsion, the government is run by several national assemblies which almost always agree with one another, considering their like mindsets and the decidedly liberal and left-leaning stance of LRR society. Government actions are always open, and meetings of the peoples' congresses are always open to whoever wants to attend. The approval rating of the government is always high, and it is supported by well-protected rights of free speech and free press.

While the Dra-pol assessment criticizes the LRR government of slander, lying, and the seeding of disunity among the population, such accusations are not true. The Dra-pol government must take care in the future not to confuse open government with corrupt government.


But on a more conciliatory note, the LRR government praises the Dra-pol decision to adjust to the lifestyle of South Korean citizens and hold regional elections. The government also suggests the establishment of local people's congresses, or other forums where the new Dra-pol citizens can voice their greviances. The government also offers to furnish agricultural collectives with the MT-3 tractor, a very popular LRR model which has been proven very capable and reliable.

Also, the government has sent messages to Da'khiem inquiring as to weather copies of Dra-pol revolutionary literature could be sent to LRR for review and possible publication.

Also, the government invites all Asian nations to attend a summit on the Asian situation, which will concentrate primarily on Dra-pol and the Korean peninsula, in Sakhalin'sk.

North Yaman supports the LRR idea, and believes this is a topic that should be discussed at great length, possibly at this proposed summit in LRR. Any nation that simply refuses to discuss the idea is ignorant in their pre-condemnation of the proposal.

Although Hudecia does not like to be forced to attend any conference, it had no intention of refusing to attend.

The aide, in responding with an affirmative response as to Hudecian participation in the summit, asks N. Yaman to wait until after someone has refused to attend before making such a pre-condemnation.

In other, slightly-related news, the LRR state armories have built the first prototype of a light fighter designed to replace the MiG-21-2000.

The new fighter, designated FRA. 5, has a canard-delta wing configuration, and is only a little larger than the MiG-21 itself.

The FRA. 5 uses composites in its design to a large extent, as well as recycled MiG-21-2000 components.

The FRA. 5 prototype has very strong and robust landing gear, enabling it to operate from roadways and flat expanses. It also has six wing and one centerline hardpoint.

The FRA. 5 will be powered by a single thrust-vectoring Al-41G turbofan engine, offering much-increased reliability, fuel economy, and thrust.

The FRA. 5 is designed to be a cheap and reliable defensive fighter, taking over from the aging MiG-21 and MiG-23 airframes in all but the Central Defense District. This still means that there are about 400 MiG-21-2000s and 210 MiG-23s on the market for export.

bump

With the influx of refugees that are coming into Quinntonian Dra-pol, it is asked if they might be temporarily housed at the Quinntonian military base in ROK, Quinntonain Dra-pol will take full responsibility for their care, and they will not leave the immediate area without passports, security checks, etc.
WWJD
Amen.

The LRR government has recently been looking for a buyer for its surplus MiG-21s and MiG-23s. Several countries have made the top of the list:

Poland
Finland
Norway
Croatia
East Timor
North Yaman
Spyr
Republic Of Korea

Being used, one would expect these aircraft to run for as low as half of their new price, depending on the age of their airframe. Prices would probably come out as thus:

MiG-21-2000: 8-4 million USD (purchase of at least 25 aircraft, without Quinntonian-compatible upgrade)
MiG-23-2000: 10-6 million USD (purchase of at least 25 aircraft, without Quinntonian-compatible upgrade)

OCC: When I mean Quinntonian-compatible, I mean american weapons, since Quinntonia is America. I assume the weapons systems are similar...

Quinntonian troops are now starting to muster up, and getting the many airbases ready for the influx of planes coming in from the many places that Quinntonina had spent the last several months stockpiling them.
The skies were literally turning black with the planes that were being brought into the area, with jungle being slashed so that the thousands of engineers and the thousands upon thousands of local workers in furious paving projects in order to make the way for the many planes that were going to be used in the future operations in the ex-FRB.
WWJD
Amen.

The Quinntonian Government is revealing their replacement of LRR backed troops in the ROK. This comes after the announcement that LRR is pulling its troops and support away from the ROK government, seen by some critics as throwing its people to the wolves of the brutal Dra-poel regime.

In response, the Quinntonian government has taken on itself to fill in the void, completely at the request of the LRR government, who is on friendly terms with Quinntonia and Quinntonian Dra-pol since the election of a conservative Christian pro-Quinntonian party, The New Alliance Party to the position of its opposition in the besieged ROK government.

So, under the direction of the Quinntonian Dra-pol Commander-in-Chief, General Lee Gemby, it has been announced the four divisions of Quinntonian troops, at full strength, and using more experienced, veteran troops to complement the existing Hudecian and ROK militaries. \

The Four Divisions will be; 1 Heavy Armoured Divisions, 20,000 troops and 800 armoured pieces; 2 Elite Airborne Divisions, 20,000 troops each and with the capability of airdropping 1500 troops per division every 12 hours.1 Heavy mechanised Divisions, with 20,000 troops and 600 pieces of armour. This will be joined by 600 Attack helicopters and a complement of 250 Fighter Planes. The airport that has now been constructed with the help of ROK contractors will also handle the bulk of Long-Range Bomber activity in the region, taking those valuable counter-attack elements out of the immediate range of Dra-poel artillery.

In an interesting move, the ROK government has been very agreeable to moving the vast numbers of Kenandruan refugees that were loyal to the ex-Royalist regime. This included 50,000 Royalist soldiers that have been formed into 5 Auxiliary Divisions of 10,000 troops each, though they continue to stay within the allotted area around the massive Quinntonian base, but are being paid, armed and their families taken care of by the government of Quinntonian Dra-pol. Their leaders have said that they remain loyal to their Monarchical masters and will return to Kenandru to fight for the restoration of their homeland when the time comes, at the call of their monarch, but for now they believe that it is their responsibility to protect and defend the almost 260,000 refugees that have come with them from the now-defunct refugee camps in Kenandru.

The Quinntonian government is now turning its attentions to setting up coordinated training activities with the ROK Army and training the hundreds of militias that area springing up throughout the nations’ small towns and cities. They are providing training and uniforms, equipment and weaponry, in the form of basic AK-47 derivatives, knee mortars, etc. The militias are also being paid a stipend amount that encourages the militias to drill and train regularly, as the pay is calculated by the hour but is still of a relatively low amount, just enough to supplement the incomes of these willing patriots. The training doctrine of these military units is in guerrilla tactics and Northern Dra-poel tactics, mirroring the Dra-poel tactics and even equipment.

OOC- I realise that this thread has been inactive from some time, but I felt that there was no other good place to post this development.

WWJD
Amen.

Portmeirion has recently denied allegations of increased technical co-operation with the CPRD during that nation's recent economic boom. Stepping out of his Daewoo-built luxury car with one ear to his South Korean Telecom mobile phone, Commonwealth Professional Civil Servant Graeme Igo spoke of the absurdity of allegations regarding Korean high-technology-for-Igovian-weapons deals.

"It is quite out-of-the-blue" Said Igo, raising a finger to halt questions while he texted a contact listed as H-T. "The idea that the joint Portmeirion-Da'Khiem fighter programme MiGgen could have lead to export of Igovian Loviatar AMRAAMs in return for political loyalty and captured South Korean consumer technologies is... hang on, I've got... oh, dude, look at this on my video phone... man, Korean pop videos are so wha... erm, important message, I have to go, really."

The goivernment is naturally quite happy to be mostly out of Korea (although around 250 troops still remain, performing various advisory and logistical functions.)

The fact that Quinntonian units are replacing the Hindustani divisions is comforting, knowing that at least someone will prevent the ROK from being eaten by Dra-pol.

In other news, the state armories can be seen, in a relatively strange move by Hindustani standards, developing main battle tanks. Apparently, the new military doctrine calls for ATGWs to be regarded more as support weapons, allowing infantry units and light units to engage tanks, rather than the basis of the entire military tank fighting force.

The new tanks, vehicles that might be described as closer to tank destroyers than actual tanks, being light, fast, and mobile, are based off of the APC-3T chassis, with an extra road wheel in the front and back. The APC-3T, one of the most reliable vehicles in Hindustani service, is probably not a terribly bad choice for the role, being able to accept prodigious amounts of applique armor and still perform wonderfully in the tough off-road conditions of India. Of course, in order to carry a tank turret and tank gun, the power pack will have to be enlarged significantly, and there will have to be major changes to the vehicle overall.

(Just to say that I'm reading carefully ;) Any provocative deals with the ROKA will, of course, lead to the deployment of MT-4* in the CPRD.

*MT-4 is the Hathi (Elephant), the main battle tank fielded by front-line Igovian forces, and, as yet, not exported, even to North Korea, despite being fairly close to immune in the face of long-range ATGW attack.)

(Just to say that I'm reading carefully ;) Any provocative deals with the ROKA will, of course, lead to the deployment of MT-4* in the CPRD.

*MT-4 is the Hathi (Elephant), the main battle tank fielded by front-line Igovian forces, and, as yet, not exported, even to North Korea, despite being fairly close to immune in the face of long-range ATGW attack.)

OCC: Well, I figure that since my army is generally several times smaller than almost all other Asian armies, even those of countries with significantly smaller populations, I could afford to field expensive and jamming-resistant anti tank missiles in most of my units, in at least some quantity. And its not like I actually export anything thats developed for my military.

That would mean giving away the few qualities that allow the HA to even survive on the battlefield to other countries. I mean, almost everybody could take on my military and, at least by numbers, expect to fare well.

I figure that, in order to be able to stand up against Sino's five million men-at-arms, with all his miracle tanks and bulletproof soldiers and chemical warfare, I'd need to equip my very small army (because it seems like I'm one of the few around here who thinks that the military shouldn't be the government's top spending priority) with weapons that can stop that overwhelming force.

I think that I've now realized that its more expensive to keep replacing those ATGWs all the time. While I'm far from totally getting rid of them, I think relying on tanks to do the bulk of the national defense is a better idea than relying on ATGWs.

IC:

The prospects of the ROK getting anything but surplus equipment from Hindustan are slim, as the government has always been extremely unwilling to share its weapons technology, however brilliant or foolish the idea is. It has been long maintained that fairly effective weaponry, especially in the aircraft, artillery, and missile department, is all that allows the small military to survive in large-scale modern engagements.

The Quinntonian Government is revealing their replacement of LRR backed troops in the ROK. This comes after the announcement that LRR is pulling its troops and support away from the ROK government, seen by some critics as throwing its people to the wolves of the brutal Dra-poel regime.

In response, the Quinntonian government has taken on itself to fill in the void, completely at the request of the LRR government, who is on friendly terms with Quinntonia and Quinntonian Dra-pol since the election of a conservative Christian pro-Quinntonian party, The New Alliance Party to the position of its opposition in the besieged ROK government.

So, under the direction of the Quinntonian Dra-pol Commander-in-Chief, General Lee Gemby, it has been announced the four divisions of Quinntonian troops, at full strength, and using more experienced, veteran troops to complement the existing Hudecian and ROK militaries. \

The Four Divisions will be; 1 Heavy Armoured Divisions, 20,000 troops and 800 armoured pieces; 2 Elite Airborne Divisions, 20,000 troops each and with the capability of airdropping 1500 troops per division every 12 hours.1 Heavy mechanised Divisions, with 20,000 troops and 600 pieces of armour. This will be joined by 600 Attack helicopters and a complement of 250 Fighter Planes. The airport that has now been constructed with the help of ROK contractors will also handle the bulk of Long-Range Bomber activity in the region, taking those valuable counter-attack elements out of the immediate range of Dra-poel artillery.

In an interesting move, the ROK government has been very agreeable to moving the vast numbers of Kenandruan refugees that were loyal to the ex-Royalist regime. This included 50,000 Royalist soldiers that have been formed into 5 Auxiliary Divisions of 10,000 troops each, though they continue to stay within the allotted area around the massive Quinntonian base, but are being paid, armed and their families taken care of by the government of Quinntonian Dra-pol. Their leaders have said that they remain loyal to their Monarchical masters and will return to Kenandru to fight for the restoration of their homeland when the time comes, at the call of their monarch, but for now they believe that it is their responsibility to protect and defend the almost 260,000 refugees that have come with them from the now-defunct refugee camps in Kenandru.

The Quinntonian government is now turning its attentions to setting up coordinated training activities with the ROK Army and training the hundreds of militias that area springing up throughout the nations’ small towns and cities. They are providing training and uniforms, equipment and weaponry, in the form of basic AK-47 derivatives, knee mortars, etc. The militias are also being paid a stipend amount that encourages the militias to drill and train regularly, as the pay is calculated by the hour but is still of a relatively low amount, just enough to supplement the incomes of these willing patriots. The training doctrine of these military units is in guerrilla tactics and Northern Dra-poel tactics, mirroring the Dra-poel tactics and even equipment.

OOC- I realise that this thread has been inactive from some time, but I felt that there was no other good place to post this development.

WWJD
Amen.

Just making sure everyone knows
WWJD
Amen.