NationStates Jolt Archive

I am thinking of starting a thread that describes the end times according to the book of Revelations. You would be able to expand or interpret it, but please keep it close to the scripture. Anyone interested?

I have no idea how the end times are supposed to occur according to the book of Revelations, but I do enjoy end of the world stories more than most do. How does the end of the world come about in the book of Revelations?

Awesome a biblical thread! Revelations is my favorite book. CM would you like to participate in my International Circus Mystery thiny!!! thread it'll be good. And so will this!

It'd be best if you read it in the Bible. Then you'd understand. However, if you're not a religious man, I'll summarize it for you the best I can.
A false prophet appears, who is the Devil's own (refered to as "the Beast" whose mark and number appears on all of those who have dealt with him, the number is six-hundred and sixty-six. It is commonly thought that the Beast is Muhammad of Islam), The Beast gains power and Jesus comes again. He opens seals to the underworld and plagues appear such as all the water in the world turns into blood. Jesus comes back and rules for one thousand years. At the beginning of the 1000 years, a great battle is waged at the place known as Armageddon where all the Jews and Christians make a last stand against all the demons of Hell. The Arch-Angel Gabriel sounds the charge, the Arch-Angel Mchael will lead the charge. After the 1000 years, the dead will rise and the faithful Christians arise to Heaven. Those who follow the Beast will stay on Earth and the whole planet will be consumed by fire.
This battle at Armageddon is what I mainly want to be RPed after a short introduction.

Awesome a biblical thread! Revelations is my favorite book. CM would you like to participate in my International Circus Mystery thiny!!! thread it'll be good. And so will this!

Same here, CE...and if you join this thread, I'll join your Mystery thingie...just TG me a link.

Okay. Here's my character. (I think a character by character thing would be better for a biblical battle thread than an army thing.)

Joseph Kliner:
A 37 year old Polish clock maker he felt a call to the palce that would become the battlefield of Armageddon.

OOC: The mystery thing is right under this one I think.

You got the story wrong:

-Rapture (first coming, people dissapear, general panic)
-Leader comes to power, says he's Jesus (possibly UN General Secratary
-Spiritial Leader spreads the word
-7 years of Tribulation
-After the seven years A GRAND BATTLE of good vrs evil occurs, good wins.
-1,000 years of peace
-Another battle, the last one occurs, good vrs evil, good wins.
-Eternal Life and Happiness

Yeargh, short review, but it works.

Oh and Crazed Marines, Jesus said that quote in your sig right?

TIOR: You're right. I only read three chapters today, so i'm a little *_*.
You are correct on the quote, and I'll give you ten times the original winnings if you can give me the exact book, chapter, and verse.

CE: good idea. Let's do this on a character base.

You need to hold up your end of the bargain. Even though I would have participated in this anyway.

I'm getting to it!

For those who don't know what 'armageddon' according to the bible is, here's what St John wrote about it:
Okay, so here's what's gonna happen. According to John's visions, it all starts to go wrong when the `lamb of God' one day decides to open up the huge, sealed book of life. The looks of the lamb betray little good. As John writes, it looks `as it it were slain, having seven horns and seven eyes.'

Don't worry, we mortals probably won't have to face this heavenly lamb -- yet. The first thing we do notice, is four horsemen: one on a white horse, one red, one black and one pale. The band of horsemen is here to bring about a lot of misery. The swordsman on the red horse spreads war, the man on the black horse leaves a trail of famine, and that skinny guy sitting on the pale horse, that's Death himself, bringing `plagues or pestilence' -- John leaves it up to Mr. Death to decide. By the way, the guy with the crown and the bow on horse #4 causes no problems in particular.

The horsemen are barely there, and here comes more trouble. Suddenly, the Sun goes black. The Moon becomes red as blood. There's a massive earthquake. Amazingly, the stars drop from the sky like figs from a tree, and the heaven slams shut `as a book folded up'. All mountains are dislocated, and every island begins to drift.

Still surviving, right? Wait, the worst is yet to come. Suddenly, everything becomes quiet, and in the `four corners of the world' (sic), four angels appear. It's the angels that cause the silence: they hold back all wind. Then, from the direction of the Sun, a fifth angel descends, carrying a special item John calls `the seal of God'. The angel marks the slim total of 140.000 Jewish people with the seal, and rushes home. By now, you're probably beginning to feel somewhat nervous. John anyway foresaw that a huge crowd would dress in white robes and pray for salvation.

And to be honest, nothing has really happened yet. After half an hour of complete silence, all hell breaks loose. There's a huge thunderstorm, there's the sound of voices coming out of nowhere, and there's another massive earthquake. Next, there's hail. And fire, burning up all grass and pulverizing one third of all trees. A mountain-sized comet plunges into the sea, turning one third of all water into blood while killing a third of all organisms living in the sea, and sinking one third of all ships.

It becomes darker still. A talking eagle is spotted. It screeches there's more to come. And that's no understatement. For the next moment, another meteor plummets into the Earth. An angel brings out a key and uses it to open the lid of a bottomless pit humanity somehow overlooked. Now, you're in for some REAL trouble.

There's smoke coming from the pit, and then, suddenly, huge amounts of killer locusts, each as lethal as a scorpion, flock out of the smoke. The scorpion locusts leave the 140.000 who carry the divine sign unscathed, but sting everyone else, for five long months in a row. By now, people `shall desire to die,' John estimates. But isn't that a pity: to their astonishment, they discover it is no longer possible to die.

Then, after those five painful months, the locusts take the shape of horses, albeit with manlike faces, long hair and lion's fangs. They total the number of two hundred million. The king of the monsters, a guy appropriately named `Exterminans', arrives at the scene.

Still holding out? Prepare yourself, actually they've been treating you mildly so far. Suddenly, the locust army out of hell sets out for a huge massacre, butchering one third of all people. People are burnt, suffocated in smoke, or squashed by huge lumps of brimstone, all of which sling out of the locust's mouths. Cities crumble, Jerusalem is destroyed and there's another earthquake, a devastating thunderstorm, and yet another earthquake.

Then, a sign is spotted in the sky. It's the Virgin Mary, `clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and on her head the crown of twelve stars', as John puts it. Another sign is seen: a huge, red dragon that uses its tail to throw one third of all stars (weren't they already gone?) to the surface of our pitiful planet. In a brief but fierce fight, the dragon along with several other demons is booted out of the sky. Unfortunately, they all fall down to earth. The dragon is in a bad mood. It declares war on the Virgin Mary and her likes.

And when that happens, you'd better hide. Out of the sea rises a huge beast, with seven heads and ten horns. (In a later chapter, John will explain that the ten horns are actually ten power-hungry kings without a kingdom.) The beast has `words of blasphemy' written on its seven foreheads, has the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion. Don't try to kill it, you'll find that the head you're hacking off grows back on within moments.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, most people decide. They kneel in front of the beast, and decide to `adore' the dragon. The sea monster reigns for 42 months, speaking the curious combination of `great things and blasphemies'.

Then a second beast hits the scene, this time coming out of the earth and wearing two horns. The new beast takes over power from the sea monster, and demonstrates his supernatural talents, for one thing by letting it rain fire on earth. Understandably, the remnant of the earth's inhabitants accept the beast willingly as their new leader. They should have known better, though: the number of this beast happens to be 666. Although John never actually calls it that way, the beast is in our time often referred to as the antichrist.

Meanwhile, the 144.000 who still carry the mark of God on their foreheads decide they don't want to have anything to do with the beasts. On mount Sion, they team up with the divine lamb. Also joining are three angels, one of which sets out to warn the masses not to hang around with beast nr. 666 anymore. Meanwhile, another angel reassures the 144.000 that the sinful city of Babylon will soon be destroyed. In yet another supernatural appearing, someone looking much like Christ descends on a cloud. Next, seven more angels appear, carrying seven divine plagues. Still following?

Now, if you're one of those who take the antichrist beast for leader, you're definitely in for trouble. The first angel strikes and wounds everyone. The second one turns the sea into blood, whereupon `every living soul' that happens to be in the sea drowns. The third angel turns all rivers and fountains on Earth into blood. The fourth angel harasses the population with heat and fire. The fifth angel brings darkness to the beast's kingdom. The sixth angel heads for the Middle East and dries up the river of Euphrates.

The unholy threesome -- the devil dragon, the antichrist and his false prophet, who is also there -- take up the glove, and declare an all-out war on God. They send out three ghostly frogs to convince all world's leaders to engage in the final battle. God in the meantime gathers his troops at a place which in Hebrew is called Armageddon (literally: the hill of robbers). And there's more voices and thunderstorms. Not to mention the biggest earthquake that ever shook the Earth, all previous apocalyptic earthquakes included. More cities crumble. Mountains collapse. Every island is swept from the face of the earth. And there's more hail, with hail stones as big as tennis balls.

Another angel descends, declaring the evil city of Babylon has just been destroyed, it only took one hour. Kings and merchants lament over the devastated city. A bright, avenging angel descends to lead the troops of God: it sits on a white horse, wears a blood sprinkled garment and has the dubious pleasure of carrying a two-edged sword in its mouth. Together with the others, the angel beats the antichrist and his false prophet and throws them into a pool of lava. If you were dumb enough to have joined the antichrist, you're dead: the angel with the sword slashes everyone and uses the corpses to feed the birds.

Now that the big part of the job is done, it's time to clean up the mess. Another angel comes down, ties the defeated devil dragon, tosses it back into the pit and shuts the lid. Not to be opened for another thousand years. Every martyr Christian that was ever beheaded comes back to life. Reunited, they live and reign for a thousand years.

But time flies when you're having fun. Suddenly, it's a thousand years later, and oh boy, the devil is at it again. He comes out of his pit and seduces all nations to join him in yet another war against the city of martyrs. But God himself puts the uprising swiftly to an end, by letting out a huge heavenly fire, which burns all the bad guys. This time, the devil himself is tossed into the pool of lava. The false prophet -- obviously, he survived the lava the first time -- is taken captive. He will be tortured forever, John is told.

Now, it's time for the final judgment. All the dead rise, and are judged `according to their works'. Many are cast into the pool of lava, those who have an entry in the book of life -- the chosen ones -- live forever.

By now, our planet has underwent some radical changes. There are no more seas, for instance. The skies open up, and an entire city -- the new Jerusalem -- gently lands on earth. It is made of gold, has twelve foundations, twelve gates and twelve angels guarding the gates. People don't die anymore. And what's more, they don't suffer, cry or worry about anything anymore. There are no more murderers, sorcerers, liars and, notably, no more dogs. Also, there's no more day and night. The world bathes in the gloom of the glory of the Lord. `Behold, I make all things new,' God declares.

TIOR: You're right. I only read three chapters today, so i'm a little *_*.
You are correct on the quote, and I'll give you ten times the original winnings if you can give me the exact book, chapter, and verse.

CE: good idea. Let's do this on a character base.

Bah, the book was Matthew, though I don't know the Chapter or verse. Just put my name in your sig >_>

Can my nations leader be the Antichrist?

Close enough. Mathew 10:34...good scripture

Can my nations leader be the Antichrist?

((OOC: It has to come from a powerful nation. Not me, I'm powerful but not evil. Let Crazed Marines decide, I want a really good RPer as the anti-christ, not that you're bad, you just don't look like you have the experience.))

Crazed Marines, General Patton said that quote in your sig :D

Confound it! TG IT TO ME! At least give me some time to find another quote.

Confound it! TG IT TO ME! At least give me some time to find another quote.

Just put TIORx2 there :)

Don Mills
Don was a professional soldier, but was discharged after he accidentally called artillery on the wrong enemy village and killed a thousand civillians. Whoops! Well, he's now merc who's working to protect the Pope. He carries a gun shaped like a semi-large cross which has a machinegun, grenade launcher, rocket launcher, and flamethrower built in. (I know, I stole it from Trigun) He swore to protect and to pay for his sins.

Well... My guy knows how to make clocks. Ooooh. He's also Jewish.

OOC: CM, your character should be part of the "Bene Jesuits," LOL. Visigaul and I came up with it a while back. Its a small, militant arm of the Church that is kept very secret, and mostly oversees Papal security. When I get more time, I'll bring in a character for myself.

He's part of "Bene Jesuits", just don't let that get around. Also, he refers to his flamethrower as "The Gates of Hell".

bump

I already killed the AntiChrist, he drank my bourbon without my permission.

j/k

Tbh I think the End will be more like SK's The Stand.

Tomas Puente was an unusual specimen. In his hometown of San Antonio, Texas, most hispanic kids were disparaging of academic excellence. Tomas, on the other hand, loved to learn, and was especially fond of the written word. He entered into an essay contest sponsored by his college, St. Mary's University, and managed to win a trip to Washington D.C. Best of all, His Holiness the Pope would be visiting the National Basilica during Tomas' stay in the area.

What do you think? We've got the Bene Jesuit, the Jewish clockmaker (Awesome in his simplicity), and now a dorky half-Mexican. (Sad thing is, he isn't that different from me.)

OOC: Except that he likes to write...lol...
I was thinking that we kill off the Pope and Don swears revenge on the Beast

IC:
Don was ready for anything. He even had his shotgun pistol at the ready if the Pope needed it along with his Cross. They were loading everyone onboard the Boeing 747 and Don saw that they had even loaded the Pope-mobile along with the flatcar for the announcer, monks, nuns, and Cardinals for the "Pope-a-palooza" that would ensue with any trip.

OOC: Actually, I would think that the Pope would be Raptured, like in the Left Behind series. Heh, its your thread, so you call it. Most Catholics would choose (assuming they had the choice) to stay behind during the Rapture anyway, I know I would.

The Pope's gonna get martyred by the beast. lol

OOC: Thanks New Exodus.

Joseph Kliner sat back in his chair in Washington D.C. It was a long way from Poland but his niece had recently had a son. And he had to look after his nephew. He had been meddling with one of the clocks around the house trying to get his mind around it.

A month ago Rolex had sent him a letter asking him if he'd want to join the company. Joseph would love to go but to leave his mother Poland would be horrible.

He messed with the cogs in the machine. Making it faster and slower at his leisure. He began oiling the cogs so they worked perfectly as he tuned it to Polish time...

OOC: Crazed Marines, can my guy be the antichrist? I've got the perfect character for it.

OOC: Also, I personally believe the Rapture does not exist, so they'll be some differences of opinion here.

Also, Left Behind is, although a good read, total bullshit.

Personally, I think the office of the Papacy is where the antichrist will take office, which is who I want my character to be.

Crazed Marines, I have a thicker plot than what I jsut said. If you say yes, or will consider saying yes, I'll TG you the rest.

bump for Camel Eaters

OOC: Also, I personally believe the Rapture does not exist, so they'll be some differences of opinion here.

Also, Left Behind is, although a good read, total bullshit.

Personally, I think the office of the Papacy is where the antichrist will take office, which is who I want my character to be.

Crazed Marines, I have a thicker plot than what I jsut said. If you say yes, or will consider saying yes, I'll TG you the rest.
The anarchist character is fine, but the Pope will become a martyr if you don't mind. Then the new Pope will lead alongside the angels at Armageddon. Don't worry about any spoilers, though, they'll be some plot twists.

OOC: I know that. The pope is martyred, and the newly elected pope, my character, is the Antichrist.

Deal?

How about your character become one of the finalists for Pope, but isn't chosen. New Exodus' character will become the new Pope and lead the forces of good. Derscon, how about your character lead the Beast's army.

Derscon, how about your character lead the Beast's army.
Isn't that what the Anti-Christ will do anyway?

New Exodus' character will become the new Pope and lead the forces of good.
I don't think my character is Holy enough. I'd say just let the Pope be martyred, then when the beast starts taking over the world, the Catholic Church is one of the first institutions (as opposed to the decentralized nature of other religions) to go. As before, its your thread, CM.

OOC: My personal belief is that the office of the papacy will be occupied by the Antichrist.

I'm gonna still petition for my character, the antichrist, to be elected pope, but it is your thread.

Hey CM want me to help you out with that jackass that attacked you? You know the one with bad spelling.

1) Well, maybe NE's character could become Pope after the fight
2) Maybe. I don't believe that the Pope will be the Beast. I believe that Muhammad is the beast *thinks* Ok, He's coming back to life.
3) Who attacked me? I don't remember that...

I still would like my nations leader to be the Antichrist. He even has the perfect name: Damian.

(yes, I got the name from The Omen trilogy)

OOC: I do, too..... :(

I'm sorry Arctic. I know Derscon's RPing abilities, so he is the anarchist. But how about this, you become his second in command?

And if you need someone to fix a clock well you know where to find my guy...

I'm sorry Arctic. I know Derscon's RPing abilities, so he is the anarchist. But how about this, you become his second in command?

You know you put anarchist? ;)

Camel Eaters, send your clock maker quickly! The Holy Hand-Grenades used by the Forces of Good have defective timers, and they must be fixed before the Final Battle! ;)

OOC: Sweetness! Thanks, CM.

TG me when the IC thread is created.

Camel Eaters, send your clock maker quickly! The Holy Hand-Grenades used by the Forces of Good have defective timers, and they must be fixed before the Final Battle! ;)
Yes, the grenades believe that three is five!

Mike, I like your new sig.

Thanks, I was thinking that each of us would eventually take the individual statements as part of their sigs.

Camel Eaters

You have to change it when finish the refound.

Ok, I'm making the real thread, this is now the OOC/planning thread

You get my TG?

yeah, replied too.

No the other one the one not about this thread.

dunno, I'll check. I'm in the middle of writing the intro.

To the thingy for Armageddon? AWESOME! Jumps up and down singing Nobody by Sknidred. Then take a look at the thingy that I made.

Yeah, the inro for the Armageddon thread. I hope you like it. And yes, I replied to the second TG.

Can hardly wait for the Armaggedon thread. Check me responso.

As a non-Christian, I feel silly pointing this out, but the correct title is the Book of Revelation. The last book in the Bible was a single revelation, not a series of revelations.

Really because I have a Bible right here and it says Revelations. guess the book's wrong. ;)

Ok, finished the intro. Here's the link. Hope you like it
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=373645

Okay, so here's what's gonna happen. According to John's visions, it all starts to go wrong when the `lamb of God' one day decides to open up the huge, sealed book of life. The looks of the lamb betray little good. As John writes, it looks `as it it were slain, having seven horns and seven eyes.'

But there are signs of Revelation to come that this site doesn't mention. I've studied Revelation for 3 years, with several third-party sources (Tim LaHaye has done some amazing word) and professional articles on all sorts of things analyzed such as symbolism and motifs. I personally take it very literally. I highly recommend reading the 66th Book, because by finishing it yourself, God blesses you for your knowledge of Judgement (that's a beginning passage).

There are a few signs of Revelation, one being the destruction of Russia (most signs will point to Russia as being the nation to strike at Israel and fall into shambles), but the nation's demise will be as a miracle, like the Hang of God had smitten it.

The other major sign will be that Peace will be established in the nation of God, Israel (The Middle East). This will be a lasting Peace, and will last for at least 7 Years. ONce that contract had been signed and Peace reigning in Israel, that marks the start of Tribulation, where True Revelation takes place.

The Biggest sign will be, of course, the Rapture. Before Judgement, God ordains that all those not worthy of Judgement be returned to him. Like a shepard gathering his flock, all those Faithful to God shall return to heaven, and those whom have hallow belief or are without God in their hearts shall stay on the damned earth and face Tribulation.

Don't worry, we mortals probably won't have to face this heavenly lamb -- yet. The first thing we do notice, is four horsemen: one on a white horse, one red, one black and one pale. The band of horsemen is here to bring about a lot of misery. The swordsman on the red horse spreads war, the man on the black horse leaves a trail of famine, and that skinny guy sitting on the pale horse, that's Death himself, bringing `plagues or pestilence' -- John leaves it up to Mr. Death to decide. By the way, the guy with the crown and the bow on horse #4 causes no problems in particular.

The subject about the First 4 of the 7 Scroll Judgements of the Lamb of God is probably one of the most arguementative subjects in Revelations. They are the subjects brought up most on how to interpret Revelations. THis is because the Red Horseman, the Grey Horseman, and the Black Horseman are all symbolic of War, Famine, and Death. However, these are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Judgements. They arrive after the White Horseman. The one with the Crown to Rule and the Bow without a quiver. This Horse is the AntiChrist. As such, it should be interpreted as the only "literal" horseman, as the others are merely symbolic of what the AntiChrist shall usher in.

The White Horseman wears a Crown to rule the world. He shall arrive and be a leader for all, and he shall be ELECTED by the people almost unanimously (Remember, all the Faithful are gone)! They will flock to his leadership, and for a time, he shall give the world peace, prosperity, and unity, and the world will be combined under the 10 Thrones. He shall center the world in Israel, where he will rebuild Babylon on it. This will be the governmental center of the world, where the Thrones shall be seated, and the Antichrist at the main chair to rule over them.

The horsemen are barely there, and here comes more trouble. Suddenly, the Sun goes black. The Moon becomes red as blood. There's a massive earthquake. Amazingly, the stars drop from the sky like figs from a tree, and the heaven slams shut `as a book folded up'. All mountains are dislocated, and every island begins to drift.

Still surviving, right? Wait, the worst is yet to come. Suddenly, everything becomes quiet, and in the `four corners of the world' (sic), four angels appear. It's the angels that cause the silence: they hold back all wind. Then, from the direction of the Sun, a fifth angel descends, carrying a special item John calls `the seal of God'. The angel marks the slim total of 140.000 Jewish people with the seal, and rushes home. By now, you're probably beginning to feel somewhat nervous. John anyway foresaw that a huge crowd would dress in white robes and pray for salvation

The Final 3 Scroll Judgements here, as well as some confusements. The Lamb of God only Judges the World 7 Times. Tribulation is a cause of 21 Judgements; 3 sets of 7. They are the Scroll Judgements, the Bowl Judgements, and the Trumpet Judgements. The Last 14 are given by Angels (with the last 7 by Seraphim ONLY), and it can be highly misinterpretted by this man that the Lamb of God, Jesus, would be responsible for the entire Tribulation. The 5th Seal does Close Heaven, but only to those that would die in Tribulation. Their sentence would give them a sort of odd state in which they can neither go to heaven or to hell. The 6th is a simultaneous natural occurance of a Solar Eclipse, and a Harvest Moon as is adopted by most theologians. This could be an awesome site of the Sun being blocked by a red sphere, with its corona around it; truly an awesome sign. It is accompanied by a huge earthquake in which all the tectonic plates shift in alignment. Before he Final Seal is the Herding of the Flock: The 144,000 Sons of Abraham (The Hebrew People) from all Tribes coming together, and carrying a sign of Faith and Protection. The last Seal Judgement? An eerie silence. Absolutely nothing happens. It's Forced Silence over all Creation for 30 minutes. No one can speak. Nothing can make a sound. There is just pure silence.

Then the Seraphim bring out the Trumpets.

And to be honest, nothing has really happened yet. After half an hour of complete silence, all hell breaks loose. There's a huge thunderstorm, there's the sound of voices coming out of nowhere, and there's another massive earthquake. Next, there's hail. And fire, burning up all grass and pulverizing one third of all trees. A mountain-sized comet plunges into the sea, turning one third of all water into blood while killing a third of all organisms living in the sea, and sinking one third of all ships.

This Earthquake is the cause of an Angel throwing down a Heavenly Censer into the world after filling it with the fires of Heaven. This may or may not be interpretted as a minor comet hitting the world, but it causes thunder, lightning, and an earthquake when it strikes. It's not a 'storm' because there is no rain.

The Trumpet Judgements of the Seraphim are incredibly harsh to the environment. Most deal with destroying the actual world with little regard for what it does to the beings on it. The First Trumpet Judgement causes a huge storm of Hail, Fire, and Blood (COMBINED) across the forests of the world and a third of all vegetation is destroyed. The 'Sea' in the Second Trumpet Judgement is most likely, as theologians agree, to be the Mediterranean Sea. This asteroid strikes the Mediterranean Sea, and turns it a red color, perhaps spilling some chemical through the pores of the rock. The CHemical destroys 33% of all life in the Mediterranean Sea and the shockwave destroys 33%of all the ships from it (and perhaps coastal civilizations from the impact). The Fouth Trumpet does something quite similiar. But instead of just a 'rock', it's a 'falling star,' which can be interpetted as a meteor or comet. The name of this meteor is Wormwood. When it crashes into the sea, it has a strange power to absorb and manifest what it is made out of into the liquids that it touches. These liquids become volitile and poisonous, destroying all those that would dare drink from them. Note that there are *TWO* Spatial objects hitting, one after the other. (This lasts for 7 years, so they could be slightly spaced out, but the Seal Judgements take 3.5 years, the 7 Trumpet and 7 Bowl judgements take the other 3.5, so it goes really fast)

It becomes darker still. A talking eagle is spotted. It screeches there's more to come. And that's no understatement. For the next moment, another meteor plummets into the Earth. An angel brings out a key and uses it to open the lid of a bottomless pit humanity somehow overlooked. Now, you're in for some REAL trouble.

There's smoke coming from the pit, and then, suddenly, huge amounts of killer locusts, each as lethal as a scorpion, flock out of the smoke. The scorpion locusts leave the 140.000 who carry the divine sign unscathed, but sting everyone else, for five long months in a row. By now, people `shall desire to die,' John estimates. But isn't that a pity: to their astonishment, they discover it is no longer possible to die.

Then, after those five painful months, the locusts take the shape of horses, albeit with manlike faces, long hair and lion's fangs. They total the number of two hundred million. The king of the monsters, a guy appropriately named `Exterminans', arrives at the scene.

Still holding out? Prepare yourself, actually they've been treating you mildly so far. Suddenly, the locust army out of hell sets out for a huge massacre, butchering one third of all people. People are burnt, suffocated in smoke, or squashed by huge lumps of brimstone, all of which sling out of the locust's mouths. Cities crumble, Jerusalem is destroyed and there's another earthquake, a devastating thunderstorm, and yet another earthquake.

The 4th Trumpet isn't pure darkness, but a dimming of the luminosity of all lights in existence. This dimming is very very noticable, except to Blind people, whom only know darkness. All Celestial Lights were dimmed by a third (including the night and the stars), and night became 16 hours of the day, every day.

The 5th Trumpet is something that is incredibly focused on, which is that God Opens the Pit. The Pit was a prison for God's worst creation, tne Angel Abaddon, the Angel of Destruction. Abaddon was sealed in the Pit by God for some horrible indiscretion (theories suggest that he was the one whom destroyed Sodom and Gamorrah, or that he worked with Lucifel in the Battle for the Throne, but instead of being banished to Hell and continue to work for Lucifer, he was imprisoned so his Destructive Talents could be used in the Grand Scale of things). Abaddon is released, and the Pit is Opened in the world. It's opening causes huge smoke to fill the atmosphere, as if a huge volcano had been erupted. From it arrives Abaddon's Legion of Demonic Scorpion Locusts. They are the size of a horse, with the body of a locust (including wings), the tail of a Scorpion, and the head of a man. They wear breastplates of Jacinth. Abaddon is given instructions that humanity is ripe for the hunt. If you know anything about Scorpion Venom, you'd know that it damages the nervous system, it's rarely deadly. As such, those attacked by the Locusts of Abaddon wouldn't die, but they would be in a paralyzing agony that would last for five months. They could not move, eat, drink, talk, or perform any action for 150 days. However, the venom that courses through them also nourishes them, and they will be unable to die by any means, and only know pain.

The 6th Trumpet of the Seraphim also frees a second Angelic Prison, this time under the River Euphrates in Iraq. These four Renegade Angels were perhaps a part of Lucifel's Army as well, or perhaps were imprisoned there by being in League with the Watchers (See Enoch I). They have an army amassed of 200 Million, and are given the rights to destroy a third of all mankind, which they do flawlessly, using fire, smoke, and brimstone, and their 'community service' for God is fulfilled. The Army of Abaddon is *NOT* the Army of the 4 Arch-Angels of Death. At this time, the True Prophets arrive, sent by God, to aid in the Struggling of Tribulation. They are the guides to humanity. They are the messengers. They speak the word of the True God and offer hints of what is to come. They cannot give any true answers, as they are but Prophets, and give only Prophecy.

I'll deal with the rest later. I can't speak of Revelation too much on an empty stomach. The rest of this is filled with an awful lot of foolishness..

High Orcs, I think your two major errors are:

1) You interpret too much of Revelation to be literal

and

2) Yuo actually believe everything in the Left Behind series


You see, there is NO BIBLICAL REFERENCE TO THE RAPTURE AT ALL. The rapture will not happen. The antichrist, which I believe to be the office of the papacy, will attempt eliminate those that understand the Papal decietment so as to bring back the Holy Roman Empire. Those are those that are martyred.

Also, Revelation takes place not JUST during the End Times -- remember, it was written in 35AD. These prophecies written are to take place FROM 35AD ALL THE WAY UP TO THE END TIMES.

Those masses of people? Yeah, that was the Protestant Reformation coming out of the belly of the Beast. They were splitting from the papal decietment and making their robes white.


You see, that is the LARGEST PROBLEM with Apocryphial writing -- you don't really know what is literal and what is not. You usually can make educated guesses, though.

Blood will not literally rain from the sky. All those mystical judgements are NOT FOR LITERAL INTERPRETATION, as they are physically impossible. Yes, God could break those laws, but He most likely will NOT.

If you wish, I will give my shpiel about the antichrist Papacy.

I've not actually read the "Left Behind" series.

LaHaye has done other work besides his co-writing with Jerry Jenkins.
Work actually on the book itself.

And you *CAN* take Revelations to be Literal!
It's ADVISED in some parts

I figure, if you want a good fucking story, why the hell NOT!?

There have traditionally been four or five schools of thought on the interpretive framework of the book of Revelation as a whole. There are many hybrids of these approaches; indeed George Eldon Ladd's moderate futuristic approach is really a hybrid of the mostly futuristic approach. In this discussion we will focus on the following five views: historicist, idealist, preterist, mostly future and moderately futuristic.

The first one in our consideration is the historicist method of interpretation, apparently made much of by the reformers. In this understanding of the book, the events described therein refer to actual events from the beginning of the church until the time of the interpreter. Thus the reformers could say that the Roman papacy was the antichrist, entrenched in its false doctrine and deception. According to Mounce, in this view, "the Apocalypse was held to sketch the history of western Europe through the various popes, the Protestant Reformation, the French revolution, and individual leaders such as Charlemagne and Mussolini."2 Apparently the method had a somewhat spurious beginning with a monastic named Joachim of Floris (d. 1602),3 and overall is open to several criticisms. Perhaps the most damaging critique is the fact that such an interpretive framework for the book leads to endless speculation and subjectivity in its interpretation. It is simply very difficult to arrive at a consensus in the identification of referents in history for the symbols in the text.4

The second method of interpretation is known as the idealist method. In this understanding, the contents of the book are not seen to relate to any historical events at all, but only to symbolize the ongoing struggle between good and evil during the church age until Christ returns. Johnson says that, as a system of interpretation it is more recent than the three other [preterist, historicist and futuristic] schools and somewhat more difficult to distinguish from earlier allegorizing approaches of the Alexandrians (Clement and Origen). In general the idealist view is marked by a refusal to identify any of the images with specific future events, whether in the history of the church or with regard to the end of all things.5

The primary benefit of this view is that it renders the apocalypse quite understandable at a basic level. It is simply a book that was written to encourage suffering saints in the knowledge that God will someday conquer all evil and make things right. One of the most significant criticisms brought against this view is the fact that Revelation is of the apocalyptic genre and as Ladd says, apocalyptic documents generally describe actual events in history.6 This also appears to contradict the clear language of the text wherein the writer says that Jesus will show him what must take place next (4:1). If there is no real chronology according to real historical events, then this statement seems to be superfluous and the section on the churches (2-3) seems be a-historical as well.

A third method of interpretation is the preterist method. In this approach to the book the symbols and content therein relate only to events and happenings at the time of the author. The beasts of chapter 13, for example, are related to "Imperial Rome and the Imperial priesthood."7 There is no future eschatology in the book whatsoever. This method is based primarily on relating the book to Jewish apocalyptic tracts written at that time to encourage faithfulness during times of persecution. Therefore, the message of the book would seem to be that while the church is threatened by the state and the demand of emperor worship, "those who endure will share in the final victory of God over the demonic powers which control and direct the totalitarian state."8 According to Johnson the system first appeared in connection with a Spanish Jesuit named Alcasar (ca. 1614) who initially developed some of its particulars. It is held by a great number of scholars today, including those from a more liberal perspective.9 The benefit of this view is that it interprets the book in its primary historical setting first. This is to be commended and maintained. But, one of the most significant problems with the view however, is that none of what was supposed to happen, happened. Rome was not overthrown by God and the saints certainly did not share in any such victory. In conjunction with this problem is the fact that much of what is in Revelation appears to be prophetic and speaking of a time quite distant from John's time (i.e. the return of Christ and the consummation of all things), but the preterist interpretation cannot account for this. For that reason many interpreters who see the events described by John as extending past the first six centuries of the church are not in agreement with this view.10

I refer to the fourth method of dealing with Revelation as the mostly futuristic method.11 In chapter 3:10 the Lord says to the church at Philadelphia that they "will kept from" (thrhvsw ejk) the hour of trial to come upon the earth. This is a literary, programmatic statement wherein the hour of trial refers to the judgments described by John in 6-18. According to John, the church at Philadelphia will not even enter that tribulation. Walvoord argues that it is unlikely that just the church at Philadelphia is ultimately in mind here—surely it must be the church as a world-wide body.12 Therefore, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments (6-16ff), which in this system are referred to as a time of Jacob's trouble (Jer. 30:7), are all future and occur after the rapture (1 Thes. 4:16) of the church. They relate directly to Daniel's 70th week (see Dan. 9:24-27; a seven year period) and therefore concern Israel and not the church. In Walvoord's system, the seal, trumpets and bowl judgments are chronologically sequential, that is, after the seal judgments, come the trumpet judgments and finally the bowl judgments. These all occur in the last 3.5 years of the seven year period of Daniel's 70th week.13 The end result of this Great Tribulation is the destruction of ecclesiastical (17) and political (18) Babylon. Then Christ will return with the church and set up his kingdom (19, 20).

Ladd is correct when he asserts that this interpretation relies heavily upon the distinction between Israel and the church and the distinctive plan God has for both.14 Ladd, as well as a host of other commentators, are extremely critical of this distinction between ethnic Israel and the church, but there appears to be significant precedent for it in a post cross setting (cf.1 Cor. 10:32 and Romans 9-11).15 Finally, in this method, proper attention is given to the grammatico-historical context of the letter and the churches in chapters 2 and 3 are generally taken as real, literal churches. Therefore, since the first three chapters (one might also add 4 and 5) deal with "things" during John's lifetime and chapters 6-22 deal with "things" to come in the future, I have called this view the mostly futuristic view.

The fifth view and the one espoused by Ladd is referred to as a moderate futurist view. According to Ladd, an answer to the problem of the relationship of the seal, trumpet and bowl judgments to one another, could provide the solution to the view of history affirmed in the book. With that in mind, he proposes that the seal judgments represent "the forces in history, however long it lasts, by which God works out his redemptive and judicial purposes leading up to the end." Therefore, Ladd understands the seal judgments to be going on throughout the church age and the trumpet and bowl judgments (really from chapter 7 onward) to be concerned with the time of the consummation. The primary reason he argues in this fashion is because the contents of the book cannot be opened until the last seal and 6:16, 17 explicitly says that the "great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand" (NIV)? This text, according to Ladd, suggests that it had not yet arrived until the sixth seal was broken. Further, Ladd understands the seal judgments to parallel the woes outlined in Matthew 24 and that the white horse in Revelation should be understood to be the victories won by the gospel in an age characterized by evil and death.

There are several problems with this view of Revelation 6. First, it is unlikely for several reasons that the rider and white horse are to be associated with Christ and the gospel.16 It is true, as Ladd points out, that white is generally associated with spiritual victory in Revelation,17 but the identification of the rider and 6:2 rests partially on parallels with the rider in 19:11. They are similar in that they are both on white horses, but the parallel is difficult to maintain beyond this. The rider in 6:2 has a bow and a crown and is bent on conquest, the rider in 19:11 is judging to effect justice. Therefore, the purpose and contexts for their actions are different. Also, the language of "was given" (ejdovqh) is used of divine permission given to evil powers to carry out their destruction (9:1, 3, 5; 13:5, 7 and 14:14, 15). Therefore its use in 6:2 would tend to argue for the rider and his mission relating to some form of evil, perhaps military invasion, with the crown symbolizing eventual rulership over conquered peoples.18 Yet another thorn in the side of Ladd's theory is the fact that 6:2 is part of a series of judgments and calamities and it is difficult to believe that it could refer to the gospel going forth. Chapter 6 and the seals represents profound judgment, not salvation.19 Finally this interpretation of the rider in 6:2 seems to promote confusion between Christ opening the seals and also being the one sent forth as the first rider.


Though I hate to use third-party sources to explain my own reasonings...
I just don't have time to argue right now.

I never said none of it is to be taken literally, it is just that you're taking too much of it.

I never said none of it is to be taken literally, it is just that you're taking too much of it.

that is my choice, and there's nothing wrong with it.

I'm not forcing or saying you, personally, should.

But I do feel that, in the context of story writing, that, for entertainment purposes, it should.

High Orcs, are you joining or not?

You don't want Orcs in your RP

Aren't Orcs also God's creatures? :)

And Derscon, ease up. I don't necessarily expect anything in Revelation to ever come true, but I understand why people (including myself) would want to try to understand just what would occur if it did. Which reminds me of something...

CM, do you think that when the time comes for the moon to turn red as blood, we could work in a story about a Christian astronaut manning a lunar outpost? Maybe one of his/her fellow astronauts is a follower of the Antichrist, and the Christian dies a martyr out on the lunar surface, thus starting the moon's transformation. It was something I came up with a while back.

Aren't Orcs also God's creatures? :)

We are creatures of the Old Ones, and the Chosen of the Red God Lopnel.

Oh, okay then...

CM, do you think that when the time comes for the moon to turn red as blood, we could work in a story about a Christian astronaut manning a lunar outpost? Maybe one of his/her fellow astronauts is a follower of the Antichrist, and the Christian dies a martyr out on the lunar surface, thus starting the moon's transformation. It was something I came up with a while back.
that works

*cough*Ithoughtmycharacteristheantichrist?*cough*

yours is, that was just a joke between me and NE.

Oh, sorry for ruining the fun, then.

Ok, the process for choosing a new Pope's pretty simple. All the Cardinals in the world come to the Vatacan and can't leave until a new Pope is chosen. They keep on voting until one person has a majority and then they throw all the votes in a fire with dry straw, creating black smoke (instead of the regular white smoke caused with wet straw). The winner is the new Pope.