NationStates Jolt Archive

Ladies and Gents, Please welcome the new,
A-15 BEHOLDER GROUND ATTACK
http://img98.exs.cx/img98/9131/ASF30.jpg
An A-15 in an exercise in the Haugus Mountains

The A-15 Beholder is designed to replace Illior’s old fleet of A-10s. This aircraft is basically the A-10’s older brother, more weapon capacity, higher max speed, better fuel efficient design, better radar, LIDAR, and of course Pallas Athena, and for some reason i forgot to add, It's carrier based!


Pallas Athena

the first joint venture between the United City-States of New Empire and the Dominion of Kotterdam, the development of the Pallas Athena TSCS was a direct response to the development of radar systems designed to defeat Athena's earlier variants. Functioning on the principle of active radar canceling, Athena was an effective active stealth system designed to allow aircraft to escape radar detection while maintaining aerodynamically-sound architecture.

Athena was developed into three variants dubbed, appropriately enough, Athena Marks I through III. Each one added a new layer of functionality, from improved cycling rates to the ability to alter the radar return to imitate other objects - A flock of birds, or another aircraft, for instance. The Dominion, for its part, had a similar system in development. The Michael Tactical Sensor Countermeasure System was first deployed on the F-34A Perseus fighter, and included the ability to project false returns anywhere within five miles of the aircraft.

Both these systems were rendered vulnerable by a new form of radar pioneered by Sileetris. Designed specifically to defeat Active Radar Canceling sets that had progressed to the point where they return a signature of empty air rather than simply a blank space, it used that very capability against them. Immediately, the Dominion and the UCSNE met to discuss this threat. Together, they were able to design a software update that would allow Athena MkII systems and up to identify and counter such radars by producing the correct return for empty air rather than the tell-tale ARC-response.

Rather than stopping there, however, the two nations took it one step further, producing a fourth Mark of Athena Stealth System, dubbed Pallas Athena. An active radar canceling system, Pallas Athena is based around a superconducting "Cold Frame" computer of Dominion manufacture. Using primarily USCNE software, Pallas Athena cycles 600-times per second, responding to inbound radar signals with the appropriate return for the atmospheric conditions in which the aircraft is currently operating.

Pallas Athena, however, combines the RCS-modifying function of Athena MkIII, allowing it to appear to be other aircraft, or atmospheric phenomena with the radar ghost function of the Michael TSCS, allowing it to project false returns. This means that an aircraft equipped with Pallas Athena could appear to be escorting a B-52H heavy bomber into enemy territory, however, when enemy fighters, or SAM sites come into range and attempt to engage, it could return to its ARC mode, and disappear. If facing threat-force fighters, it could then engage with a missile shot. If the targets were SAM sites, then Anti-Radiation Missiles could be employed.

This combined capability allows Pallas Athena to be used to devastating effect for feints to draw out enemy fighters, or for "Wild Weasel" air defense suppression missions by pretending to be a worthy target to lure in its prey. Also, Pallas Athena offers capabilities that neither system had. In addition to the Michael system's ability to provide information on the range, bearing, and type of enemy radars, the Pallas Athena can function in Scatter Mode, something the Athena MkI was designed to defeat. In scatter mode, one radar transmits, and another receives the information.

Pallas Athena can use transmitting enemy radars to receive information on the aircraft around it, thus allowing the aircraft to operate as if it had an active radar transmitting while maintaining EMCON. As well, in close combat (within thirty statute miles) Pallas Athena can function as a Low-Probability of Intercept, or LPI all-aspect radar, giving the aircraft carrying it full 720-degree spherical radar coverage out to approximately thirty statute miles. While operating as a radar system, the aircraft is visible to other active radars.

To counter this vulnerability Pallas Athena is fully capable of operating in Snapshot Mode, where it sends out a quick pulse, giving the aircraft a "snapshot" of the area around it. This is useful when a pilot has lost visual contact with a target, in that it gives him an approximate area in which to find it. Additionally, if a pilot is using a LOAL IR-guided missile, information from the "snapshot" can tell the missile approximately where to find the target, much as it would be guided if Pallas Athena were operating in Active mode.

In Snapshot Mode, an aircraft with Pallas Athena appears on radar for a bare second, flashing into existance, then fading away again. This has led to Dominion test pilots dubbing the Perseus fighters carrying the prototype Pallas Athena systems "Fireflies" for the way their radar returns would flash on and off their screens in a mass mock dogfight.

PA is the main defense for the A-15 against enemy fighters and SAMs, although heat masking and Radar absorbent paint are used anyways. Chaff and Flare pods are integrated into the design of the A-15, allowing more space on the 6 hard points for fuel and Jamming pods for the export version since PA is not a production/sales right capable from Illior, (although we do have prod rights, not sales). Integrated into the helmet is the HUD, which can be turned on or off at any time by the pilot so he can focus on whatever s/he needs. Incorporated into the helmet design is a small warning speaker next to the ear to keep the pilot in good situational awareness. also, between 2-8 inches of lightweight metal-plastic composites is used as armor to protect against ground fire, including low level flak.

As the forward canards do not alway allow for the best of ground attack visibility, the A-15 is equipped with 4 minicams, one on each canard tip and 1 on each Mauser, each is equipped to be used as nightvision, infared, and normal. for laser guided munitions, in front of the first landing wheel doors is a laser designator.

The A-15 can carry multiple weapons systems, all of what the A-10 could, but double the capacity and hellfire missile pods made for the A-15. The A-15 is powered by 2 Kir-101 High bypass turbo fans producing 22,000 pounds thrust each.

The normal weapons load out on an A-15 can consist of 2 missiles on the end of each wing, up to six bombs/missiles/hellfire pods can be carried under wing, and up to 8 2000 lb bombs in the internal bays, which can also handle a variety of Air to Ground, or several sidewinders. For all anti-infantry/lightly-medium armored vehicles, 1 rotating 12.7mm .50 caliber cannon is mounted under each canard, with storage for 3000 AP rounds for each gun.

Overview (National version)
A-15A
Primary Function: Ground Attack Aircraft
Engines: 2 Kir-101 engines, 22,000 Lbs thrust
Length: 61 feet (with refueling pylon, 65 feet)
Wingspan: 48’ 4.5”
Max Speed: M 1.2
Minimum speed: (amazingly) 180 MPH
Maximum Ceiling: 45,000 ft
Max Load: 55,000 Lbs
Full weapons max load: 18,000 lbs (6 external hard points, 2 wing tip points, 8 in internal bay)
Range: 710 NM combat radius for deep strike (max fuel w/ 15,000 lbs of ordinance); W/ in air refueling, unlimited
Weapons: (standard giant land battle load out)
2 30mm recoiless on fuselage, under canards, half in, half out of the AC
4 Hellfire Missile pods (total of 16 hellfire missiles {total weight of 6,000Lbs together})
12 assorted munitions.
Defense Mechanisms
AN/AVR-2 LWS
Pallas Athena
2 chaff pods (3 ejections each)
4 flare pods (2 ejections each)
PSAWMAWS (Pilot Situational Awareness Warning and Missile Approach Warning System)
Radar Absorbent Paint
Electrolight stealth (basically mini lights under plane, makes it harder to spot in daylight, used on Dark Stars)
Heat Masking
HVAHUD (Helmet Visual and Audio Heads Up Display)
Production cost: 21 Million (with all weapons)
Sales cost: N/A

Nations owning any particular number of these aircraft: ME (250)

Overview (Allied Export version)
A-15B
Primary Function: Ground Attack Aircraft
Engines: 2 Kir-101 engines, 22,000 Lbs thrust
Length: 61 feet (with refueling pylon, 65 feet)
Wingspan: 48’ 4.5”
Max Speed: M 1.2
Minimum speed: (amazingly) 180 MPH
Maximum Ceiling: 45,000 ft
Max Load: 55,000 Lbs
Full weapons max load: 17,000 lbs (6 external hard points, 2 wing tip points, 8 in internal bay)
Range: 710 NM deep stike combat radius (max fuel, 14,500 lbs ordinance)
Weapons: (standard giant land battle load out)
2 30mm recoiless on fuselage, under canards, half in, half out of the AC
4 Hellfire Missile pods (total of 16 hellfire missiles {total weight of 6,000Lbs together})
12 assorted munitions
Defense Mechanisms
AN/AVR-2 LWS
2 chaff pods (3 ejections each)
4 flare pods (2 ejections each)
PSAWMAWS (Pilot Situational Awareness Warning and Missile Approach Warning System)
Radar Absorbent Paint
MSPY Radar (miniature spy Radars)
Electrolight stealth (basically mini lights under plane, makes it harder to spot in daylight, used on Dark Stars)
Heat Masking
HVAHUD (Helmet Visual and Audio Heads Up Display)
Production Cost: 17 Million (without weapons except for 30mm guns)
Sales Cost: 19 Million



Overview (Normal Export version)
A-15C
Primary Function: Ground Attack Aircraft
Engines: 2 Kir-101 engines, 22,000 Lbs thrust
Length: 61 feet (with refueling pylon, 65 feet)
Wingspan: 48’ 4.5”
Max Speed: M 1.20
Minimum speed: (amazingly) 180 MPH
Maximum Ceiling: 45,000 ft
Max Load: 55,000 Lbs
Full weapons max load: 16,000 lbs (6 external hard points, 2 wing tip points, 8 in internal bay)
Range: 695 NM deep strike combat radius (full fuel, 14,000 lbs ordinance)
Weapons: (standard giant land battle load out)
2 30mm recoiless on fuselage, under canards, half in, half out of the AC4 Hellfire Missile pods (total of 16 hellfire missiles {total weight of 6,000Lbs together})
12 assorted munitions
Defense Mechanisms
AN/AVR-2 LWS
2 chaff pods (3 ejections each)
2 flare pods (2 ejections each)
PSAWMAWS (Pilot Situational Awareness Warning and Missile Approach Warning System)
Radar Absorbent Paint
MSPY Radar (miniature spy Radars)
Electrolight stealth (basically mini lights under plane, makes it harder to spot in daylight, used on Dark Stars)
Heat Masking
HUD
Production Cost: 16 Million (without weapons except for 30mm guns)
Sales Cost: 19 Million
Annual Upkeep cost per 1.5 years:1.9 million dollars

OOC: Feel free to post comments and whatever else/ orders. No production rights are available at this time

Disclaimer: No Nation buying any of these Aircraft has a right to reproduce these aircraft in any way shape or form, without the express permission of Haaj-Frimel Air Corporation. If these copyright laws are violated in any way shape or form, punishment may result in fining of up to twice the production cost of each plane, and or military and diplomatic repercussions such as being blacklisted, embargoed, blockaded, cease of diplomatic relations, and sanctions. Any malfunctions are to be taken care of the customer nation’s ground crew. Training and repair are basically the same as the A-10, but the engine is an Illiorian design, several repair manuals and specifications for spare parts are sent along with each purchase. NONE OF THESE AIRCRAFT ARE TO BE USED AGAINST ILLIOR, at any time. Lastly, we thank you for choosing to buy this specified aircraft, and good fortune to those who use it!

The Mauser is too big to mount in an aircraft on a turret... And they wouldn't fit on canards.

The Mauser is too big to mount in an aircraft on a turret... And they wouldn't fit on canards.
hrmm... suggestion to fix it? maybe a 20mm gun instead?

I don't think you could fit turreted guns much bigger than .50 caliber (12.7mm?) on the fuselage... Most guns over 20mm are in pods on the wings or internally mounted.

I don't think you could fit turreted guns much bigger than .50 caliber (12.7mm?) on the fuselage... Most guns over 20mm are in pods on the wings or internally mounted.
goes to show how little knowledge I have of real military concepts... I guess I could downsize it to a .50 caliber(12.7mm) round turret

These guesses are just based on the turreted guns on some fighter bombers from WWII, really. But I'm pretty sure that the barrel on stuff like the Mauser or 20mm guns would make them too big to be turreted.

You're best off with a large bore/high ROF gun in the nose for taking out vehicles.

These guesses are just based on the turreted guns on some fighter bombers from WWII, really. But I'm pretty sure that the barrel on stuff like the Mauser or 20mm guns would make them too big to be turreted.

You're best off with a large bore/high ROF gun in the nose for taking out vehicles.
So putting 1 mauser in the nose would be better than 2 .50 caliber's for strafing runs? I'm pretty sure the hellfires and whatever other munitions the pilot has could take the larger vehicles, but you know more than me, I'll just add another variant I guess...

The smallest guns in use on jet aircraft in the US air force are 20mm guns. They stopped using .50 calibers with the F-86 (Six) when they got more powerful, higher ROF gatling guns.

I would say dump the .50 cal gatlings and remove your cannons from the canard area that would serve to seriously unbalance your aircraft.

First you really won't be turreting any cannon worth it's salt, some degree of articulation might be possible (+/- a few degree off bore sight) though.

My absolute minimum gun for a pure ground attack aircraft would be the GAU-12 25mm gatling gun from the US harriers.
a gun designed for the 30x173mm round would be preferable but you are not goign to be moutning more than one GAU-8 although you could mount a couple of single barreled GAU-9s. A couple of late model BK-27muasers would be a good comprimise but i would agree with NE in saying you wouldn't be moutnign them in the canards.
For true goudn attack awsoemness the mauser 35mm recoiless cannon would be an ideal weapon but would rule out any artiulation and presetn problems about where the back blast goes (perhaps mount them in wing root pods?)

I would say dump the .50 cal gatlings and remove your cannons from the canard area that would serve to seriously unbalance your aircraft.

First you really won't be turreting any cannon worth it's salt, some degree of articulation might be possible (+/- a few degree off bore sight) though.

My absolute minimum gun for a pure ground attack aircraft would be the GAU-12 25mm gatling gun from the US harriers.
a gun designed for the 30x173mm round would be preferable but you are not goign to be moutning more than one GAU-8 although you could mount a couple of single barreled GAU-9s. A couple of late model BK-27muasers would be a good comprimise but i would agree with NE in saying you wouldn't be moutnign them in the canards.
For true goudn attack awsoemness the mauser 35mm recoiless cannon would be an ideal weapon but would rule out any artiulation and presetn problems about where the back blast goes (perhaps mount them in wing root pods?)
That would work well, I guess I could add those right under the wing next to the fuselage, one on each side?

That would work well, I guess I could add those right under the wing next to the fuselage, one on each side?
that would be a way of doing it :)

I'm trying to dig up soem details, i can find soem ballsitic data here:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/DSEi2003.htm (scroll down to the automatic cannon section and then the Mauser RMK30 bit...)

and a quick goggle of the basic 30mm version (search for Mauser RMK 30) should brign up soem bits and bobs

that would be a way of doing it :)

I'm trying to dig up soem details, i can find soem ballsitic data here:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/DSEi2003.htm (scroll down to the automatic cannon section and then the Mauser RMK30 bit...)

and a quick goggle of the basic 30mm version (search for Mauser RMK 30) should brign up soem bits and bobs
what about putting 1 on each side of the cockpit below the canards half in the fuselage and half out, with coverings though?

It would depend on where your jet intakes are...
although that way might create more problems as to where the back blast goes...

It would depend on where your jet intakes are...
although that way might create more problems as to where the back blast goes...
with the Recoilless ones? anyways, the intakes are on the underside of the fuselage and on either side of the internal bay, so that shouldn't be too big of a problem for the 30mm recoilless

OOC: The only plane that i know that could hold a .50 cal gatling without any problems is the A-10 Warthog. Then again that thing is designed like a damned tank

OOC: Any modern aircraft could hold a .50 cal gatling. that's only 12.7mm. The A-10 has a 30mm gatling gun.

OOC: The only plane that i know that could hold a .50 cal gatling without any problems is the A-10 Warthog. Then again that thing is designed like a damned tank

Actually most aircraft can hold a .50"(12.7mm) gatling weapon fairly easely, cosidering that many use a 20mm gatling (the M61 "Vulcan").
the only Western 50cal gatling on the market is the GAU-19 which weights in at a weighty 63kg soudns big doesn't it? well comapred to the BK27 Mauser of the EF Typhoon which breaks teh scales at 102kg... (the 20mm vulcan in soemwhere between 92-113kg depending on the version)

Damn! i guess this place can be used to discuss MG's, anyways, what about the Idea of putting a 30mm Recoilless or a 20mm recoilless on both sides of the fuselage and under the Canards? or maybe just one in the nose... pods wouldn't work too well because the canard and the wing are at most a couple inches apart, with a bit of fluxuation, the canard would be ripped to shreads...

BUMP
Post says a meeee.....

Put us down for an order of 300 of the best version you will sell us (how much do I have to bribe you for the national) once you figure out the gun problems.

Put us down for an order of 300 of the best version you will sell us (how much do I have to bribe you for the national) once you figure out the gun problems.
wish you could... PA is produced and sold by New Empire, You'd need him to get PA, though the allied version was meant for allies(i.e. NATO/APTO people and several others...), but I'll give you the AV for oh, 25 Mil apiece, to you only since you were the first who wanted to bribe me....
so that's about.... 6 billion with discounts

Sure 25 Million is Fine. I want the best I can get.

Do not deliver until you decide what gun you are putting in.

Damn! i guess this place can be used to discuss MG's, anyways, what about the Idea of putting a 30mm Recoilless or a 20mm recoilless on both sides of the fuselage and under the Canards? or maybe just one in the nose... pods wouldn't work too well because the canard and the wing are at most a couple inches apart, with a bit of fluxuation, the canard would be ripped to shreads...

Well mounts on either the top or the bottom of the fusalge would work, the nose would be a problem with respect as the where the back blast would go.

Well just my two cents, one, you would have to mount the gun directly down the center line to make sure you can keep the plane level when firing. But couldn't you just direct the backblast out down ports on the bottom or top of the plane. I am not sure if this is correct but just saying.

BUMP
I don't know quite yet what I'll go for, If i put 1 on each side of the fuselage slightly under canards, they'll balance eachother out that is, if they are synchronized. Myabe a 30 mm recoilless under the cockpit would work well.

OOC: It would probably help if you decided on a gun.

OOC: It would probably help if you decided on a gun.
yeah, I'm tryin to get CSJ to look at it and help me out, I'm looking for suggestions to help me out since this is really the first big thing I've developed and offered

Once You make a decision on the gun we will place an order for 1000 more of the Allied export version for 25 Billion USD.

Once You make a decision on the gun we will place an order for 1000 more of the Allied export version for 25 Billion USD.
Order taken into account,

BUMP

Normally i would only be too happy to buy soem but i jsut started using my own A-10 replacement...

ooc: sorry to ask this...but where does that picture come from, and are there more from where it came from?

ooc: sorry to ask this...but where does that picture come from, and are there more from where it came from?
made it myself from a program called DoGa, i can't find the link right now but google it, and it had to be hosted so i used Imageshack

I am going to be in a war soon could you deliver my A-15's now with the 30 mm cannons.

I am going to be in a war soon could you deliver my A-15's now with the 30 mm cannons.
Allright, I think I'll decide on the 30mm recoiless, 1 on either side of the fuselage/cockpit and under the canards, half in the plane, half out.

And they're being shipped now, expect final delivery in 1 NS year(Tommorow)

The Empire of Presidency would like to know if you accept wisa, master card, or the emplanted microchip? Also, is it 30 days same as cash and do you take out of town checks? Is there a 90 day trial period with money back guarentee? Do you accept competitor coupons? And finaly are there discounts for buying in bulk? Thank you.

IC: The Empire of Tanthan wishes to purchase 20 A-15C for testing. Systems to be tested is target accuracy, how it handles and if it pleases the pilots we will purchase more of them.

The total purchase comes to $300,000,000 for 20 A-15C.

The Empire of Presidency would like to know if you accept wisa, master card, or the emplanted microchip? Also, is it 30 days same as cash and do you take out of town checks? Is there a 90 day trial period with money back guarentee? Do you accept competitor coupons? And finaly are there discounts for buying in bulk? Thank you.
What in the world??? Western union wire transfers are prefered, but Visa is accepted, No, no 90 day trial period... wait a sec.... this seems like spam....

Tanthan, due to the size of your defence budget, a payment plan would be better, maybe installments of 15.5(that's with interest) million over 20 years is acceptable? the planes would still be delivered ASAP.

A payment plan is not needed I currently have 3,264,901,565.25 in my defense, and $4,431,993,075.00 in my surplus (which goes straight into defense unless another need comes up, rocket launches and stuff), even still we are talking less the 10% of my defense budget going to planes. I have massive funding still from my ally Upper Xen behind me so I have plenty of unused and money left that has been saved from other days.

p.s. my economy just took a nose dive from very strong to good, its only a little blip which is still nothing to be concerned about with such a small purchase.

A payment plan is not needed I currently have 3,264,901,565.25 in my defense, and $4,431,993,075.00 in my surplus (which goes straight into defense unless another need comes up, rocket launches and stuff), even still we are talking less the 10% of my defense budget going to planes. I have massive funding still from my ally Upper Xen behind me so I have plenty of unused and money left that has been saved from other days.

p.s. my economy just took a nose dive from very strong to good, its only a little blip which is still nothing to be concerned about with such a small purchase.
Allright, i guess the surplus will allow you to buy them. expect final delivery in 2 NS years

I have no idea why they are great planes.

I have no idea why they are great planes.
well... you just bought 1300 of them so... they must be pretty good, and tell me how they do in combat will ya? I havn't had a chance to use them yet, so have fun...

Me neither, they work extremely well in practice against tanks.

should have just put a 30mm avenger in the nose
EDIT: put it back farther on the underside of the fuselage then

should have just put a 30mm avenger in the nose
If you hadn't noticed, there was the recoil problem which was why i decided to put 2 in exactly on either side of the fuselage and right under the canards to keep the recoil from throwing the plane off balance(total of 2 guns)(this statement is not meant to be snappy or insulting, just a rebuttle)

PM: the RMK series of 30mm weapons are actually more powerful than the GAU-8 and much much lighter not to mention having a higher fire volume in the 1st 0.5seconds of firing, of course if you fire your GAU-8 any longer your plane has a tendency to stall.

PM: the RMK series of 30mm weapons are actually more powerful than the GAU-8 and much much lighter not to mention having a higher fire volume in the 1st 0.5seconds of firing, of course if you fire your GAU-8 any longer your plane has a tendency to stall.
So you are saying that's what I should be using?

The RMK-30x280 is pretty much the weapon you are using (ie the recoiless 30mm cannon), thats just the Rheimetal product classification, you could lsit it however you want.

The RMK-30x280 is pretty much the weapon you are using (ie the recoiless 30mm cannon), thats just the Rheimetal product classification, you could lsit it however you want.you just listed it where I wanted it... thanks Crookfur

BUMP

Bump for changes made after talking to CSJ, and for all who have already purchased them, well, we'll say that that's what you've got sitting in your hangars and you got a special release deal...