NationStates Jolt Archive

Announcement from LSDI:

Due to the large number of projects currently being developed, LSDI is looking for dependable and reknowned aviation manufacturers to submit tenders for significant subcontracts.

The projects currently to be subcontracted are detailed below:

Project XAAM-1 - Long Range AAM for use on LAS-XF4 (details of plane are here: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=366868 ). Missile is currently 25% developed, though further development work can be carried out by either subcontractor or LSDI.

Project LAS-F8 - MiG-27 rebuild. Project for the development of a rebuilt and re-engined MiG-27. Aims to provide an affordable strike fighter. If sucessful, there is potential for large orders for this aircraft.


Project - XAGM09 - Development of high-speed ALCM, currently in prototype stage. Production of missile expected to commence mid-2005.



Any companies wishing to be considered for these sub-contracts should detail their proposals and costs below.

(Tag out of interest and plans to later submit a proposal though lacking the time at the moment..or so I believe.)

MierTech is interested in your proposal, though MierTech wonders whether production rights to any of the projects will be granted to the subcontractor.

OOC: Possibly, depending on our strategic position at the time and also dependent on the technology level of the project..

OOC: I know there's a MiG-23/MiG-27 rebuild program underway at MiG so I need to find pix for that for my version..

Very well then, I shall start on re-designing the MIG-27. Are there any specific technology requirements that are specific to your nation? Otherwise I will add my own technology to the aircraft.

Ok then. I'll look too for pictures of the MiG re-design. Meanwhile I'll generate the stats for the aircraft. Are there any specific stats you want, as due to the way I design my aircraft there are some stats that are missing when compared to other nations aircraft.

MierTech engineers and scientists have been working around the clock on the problem, and have come up with the current specification. As of yet the aircraft is still in prototype shape, but they wish to have some feedback from LSDI staff for the direction for them to continue in:


Project LAS-F8/PX-E3 'Rusiav' interceptor
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/images/mig-27-06p04.jpg
This is a project given to MierTech by LSDI (Lasatania) to redevelop the MiG-27. Utilising MierTech technology the MiG-27 has become a formidable weapon.

Designed by: Phoenixius
Function: interceptor
Crew: 1
Length: 17.2m
Height: 6m
Wingspan: 8m/15m
Empty Weight: 15,000 kg
Armament Weight: 4,000 kg
Internal Fuel: 4,700 kg
Ceiling: 16,000 m
Max Speed: Mach 2.1
Supercruise: Mach 1.4
Range: 2,400 km
Armament:
Combat Systems:
PHBVS G-I
PDCM G-I
CACS G-III


Unit Cost: $40mil
Production Rights Cost: $4bil

Options:
Archangel G-I - $1mil (Classified as Rusiav-S)
Wraith - $10mil (Classified as Rusiav-W)
PMAS G-I - $5mil (Classified as Rusiav-A)
EMPPS - $5mil (Classifed as Rusiav-E)


[i]OOC: I've basically taken the MiG-27 stats and changed them slightly, plus added my own stuff. The options are really just for me, if and when I can sell it, but if you want the tech then we can arrange something. Same thing goes for the unit cost and production rights, its for me. If theres something not quite right (the speed I wasn't sure about, so correct me if its slower that currently, or way to fast), then I await corrections. I haven't found a pic of the future re-designed MiG-27, so I just used one of the current one.

(OOC: I've time to post now...a little atleast [had to leave for school, there now]. Expect my stats/image/version this afternoon/evening when I'm home and have a scanner at hand.)

The Neo-Soviet Russian owned Lightning Stryke Industries Aerospace division shall take apon itself the task of attempting to redesign the Mikoyan Guervich 23/27 Flogger in competition with Phoenixius and any other competitors for the LSDI contract.

OOC: I'll just need to ask people to slow down this now.. I had my flu vaccine this morning and I'm beginning to feel sore and drowsy... normal service will be resumed ASAP!

OOC: OK, despite falling asleep at work just about.. I found the site I had come across before:


http://www.aeronautics.ru/mig23mld.htm

Turns out its a MiG23 rebuild... but remember, this has to be an affordable aircraft, so we're talking a price of around $10m to $15m a unit max.

(OOC: About the price...understood. I've revisioned both the -21 Fishbed and the Tu-22 Blinder. Another aircraft shouldn't be too hard.

Luck with the soreness and drowsyness.)

OOC: ach well its better having this for a day or two than having the flu for a few weeks once winter kicks in...

OOC: Shame about the flu.

IC:

We will re-design the current cersion of our prototype. The price listed was merely a projection including cost for development - we can significantly reduce the costs, but cutting back on several, less important sectors of the aircraft.

Would you rather we re-design the MiG-23 instead, or should we stick with the MiG-27 design?

OOC: It's a flu vaccine.. to avoid the bleedin disease later in th eyear..

As for design, holfd fire this now, I want to do some research myelf.. will post more details 2moro, this is more about seeing whose interested first then I may well RP the tender process...

OOC: Very well, I shall wait until tomorrow to give designs for this project - I'll create designs basedon both the MiG-23 and MiG-27.

OOC: No probs.. I'll be able to do two things at once - i.e work and this - by tomorrow I reckon.. my head feels a bit better already!

OOC: GOod your feeling better - I may take a look at making a missile for you, but really I'm not too hot on various bits and pieces for missiles - I'll probably have to look at other storefronts to get a better idea.

OOC: With regards to the AAM, I'll be designing that one entirely myself as its related to my long-range fighter project, so theres a lot of interaction between plane and missile I want to examine..

OOC: Its tomorrow, at least to me, so here are my two versions of your aircraft:


Project LAS-F8/PX-E3 'Rusiav' interceptor
Prototype 1
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/images/mig-27-06p04.jpg
This is a project given to MierTech by LSDI (Lasatania) to redevelop the MiG-27. Utilising MierTech technology the MiG-27 has become a formidable weapon.

Designed by: Phoenixius
Function: interceptor
Crew: 1
Length: 17.2m
Height: 5m
Wingspan: 8m/15m
Empty Weight: 15,000 kg
Armament Weight: 2,000 kg
Internal Fuel: 4,700 kg
Ceiling: 16,000 m
Max Speed: Mach 2.3
Supercruise: Mach 1.5
Range: 2,400 km
Armament:
1x MTG-01 A w/ 1000 rounds of ammunition
8x MTM-01/MTM-02
Combat Systems:
PHBVS G-I
PDCM G-I
CACS G-II


Unit Cost: $12mil

Options:
Archangel G-I - $1mil (Classified as Rusiav-S)
Wraith - $10mil (Classified as Rusiav-W)
PMAS G-I - $5mil (Classified as Rusiav-A)
EMPPS - $5mil (Classifed as Rusiav-E)


Prototype 2
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/images/mig-23-DNST8908431_JPG.jpg
This is another design based on the MiG-23, as part of LSDI's contract design.

Designed by: Phoenixius
Function: interceptor
Crew: 1
Length: 16m
Height: 4.8m
Wingspan: 7m/14m
Empty Weight: 15,000 kg
Armament Weight: 2,000 kg
Internal Fuel: 4,700 kg
Ceiling: 19,000 m
Max Speed: Mach 2.4
Supercruise: Mach 1.5
Range: 2,000 km
Armament:
1x MTG-01 A w/ 1000 rounds of ammunition
6x MTM-01/MTM-02
Combat Systems:
PHBVS G-I
PDCM G-I
CACS G-II


Unit Cost: $13mil

Options:
Archangel G-I - $1mil (Classified as Rusiav-S)
Wraith - $10mil (Classified as Rusiav-W)
PMAS G-I - $5mil (Classified as Rusiav-A)
EMPPS - $5mil (Classifed as Rusiav-E)


The unit cost is the projected cost of construction, plus profit. Depending on material used and construciton processes, this could go either up or down. The options are for my purpose's, though if you wish to gain any of the tech, then please contact me further.

BUMP for Lasatania's attention.

OOC: OK, I've had a cursory look, I'll bump this up for now.. Just need to wait and see if anyone else is willing to tender any proposals - that's fair after all..

Also I need to have a check myself re: systems, engines etc..

Hang fire for now, you will be contacted!

(OOC: I'll have my proposal up some time today/tonight. I've to edit a few things a little more...tweeks and whatnot.)

OOC: Pah, just because mine was better, your changing your stats! Oh well.

IC:

MierTech looks forwards to your answer. Seems LSI and MierTech are back in competition again.

(OOC: Actually it's less that I'm changing stats then that i've not had time to write stats/description due to lack of time. And I'm really not going to compare my stats to yours much if really at all, instead comparing to the actual aircraft. So bah! And sorry, for the waste of space, Last.)

OOC: Hmmm....

IC:

Lasatania, if you wish to purchase any of the specialist systems detailed at the bottom of my designs, then either post here, or TG me, and I'll see what I can do.

<bump>

<bump>

LSIA-ADFM-23 Flogger MkII

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/Ramza357/Lightning%20Stryke%20Industries%20-%20Aircraft/LSIA-ADFM-23FloggerMkII.jpg

With the possibility of contracts as well as a chance to challenege competitor arms manufactuerers, the Lightning Stryke Industries' Aerospace division went about the redesigning of another Mikoyan Guerivich aircraft, this time the MiG 23/27 Flogger. All around the aircraft has witnessed a number of mentionable changes.

The first changes, structurally include a strengthening and slight redesigning of the frame to better cope with stresses of dog fighting and the weight of a full load of weapons. Externally wings as well as wingroots have been streamlined and given additional shifting hardpoints. The nose has been enlarged to help contain a more advanced and effective radar as well as a number of sensors and other such equipment. Also enlarged and redesigned is the air intakes as well as the belly of this beast. Another change made to this aircraft is its ability to now be refueld in flight, an advantage when one needs air cover around the clock. Overall the redesign is meant to give the aging design atleast a slightly smaller radar image.

Defense wise, along with the making use of some composites and redesigning certain areass to lessen radar reflectiveness, LSI has added on some defense systems as well as updated other systenms.

Internally, along with updates to systems and controls, the engine has been pulled out. In its place was installed a more powerful and fuel efficient engine with three dimensional thurst vectoring capability. The cockpit of course has been redesigned. The centrally palced flightstick has been done away with, as has a number of dials and the glass block for the hud. Instead, the stick has been moved to the right side. The removed dials and whatnot have been replaced with a series of mutli-purpose LCDs with touch screen capability. The standard HUD has been replaced with one issued by LSIA capable of showing all information instead on the canopy. Also included is the ability to make use of helmet mounted display systems. With the inclusion of both systems the pilot now has a choice of which is better for him. As already stated, systems along with software has been updated to allow the aircraft to work with more capable weapons of moderm times.

Function: Air Defense Fighter
Crew: One (1)
Max Speed: 2.54 Mach
Super Crusie: 1.24 Mach
Range: 1,450 miles
Ceiling: 65,000 feet
Dimensions:
Length: 16.82 m
Height: 5.4 m
Wing Span[b]:
[b]Wings Extended: 14.05 m
Wings Swept Back: 7.8 m
Weight:
Empty: 28,750 lb
Maximum Take Off: 46,200 lb

Armament:
One (1) 20mm LSI-AG-14 20mm multibarrel autocannon w/ 850
Eight (9) External hardpoints for an array of missiles/bombs/pods/etc
Systems/Defenses:
Advanced All Points Radar
Helmet Mounted Display System
Full Frontal HUD
3D Thrust Vectoring
Quick Defense Measures System
Deployable Decoy System Phase I

Base Price: 15,000,000

Optional Armaments:
LSI-AGG-15 Semi-Guided 20mm Hailstorm CIWS +250,000

Optional Systems/Defenses:
Deployable Decoy System Phase II +1,000,000
Mounted Laser Defense Ball/Turret +1,600,000
Virtual Enviroment Cockpit Phase I +800,000
Virtual Enviroment Cockpit Phase II +1,250,000

---

As with Phoenixius the cost is the projected along with some profit. Also option wise, the systems would be included for my production of the aircraft. If you choose though to go with this and wish to offer the optional systems/armaments then we shall speak of this in private.

(OOC: Note that with your mentioning of the rebuild actually being for a -23 and not a -27 I went with that airframe.)

BUMP for Lasatania's attention.

OOC: Nice design NSR.

(OOC: Thankie, Phoe. There's reasons why I take a little more time...other than my slacking.)

OOC: Indeed - still prefer mine. Is Lasatania still around here?

OOC: Only just here - work's busy and I', wiped out after a 48hr+ weekend... will have a proper look and response tomorrow!

OOC: Thats ok - I've used the Prototype 2 version for my own uses, just to let you know.

(OOC:Atleast we know you're still alive and interested. Tis what matters. And the weekend screwed me over too..though by that I mean comoputer troubles..but...yub)

(And Phoe, of course you still prefer yours...tis yours.)

OOC: Naturally.

BUMP for Lasatania's attention.

OOC: OK, I'm alive.. just.. got a flaming cough as well, so I'm quitting smoking... if I get snappy, I apologise in advance..

However, regarding this design competition - as it's turned into - I came across an interesting figure...

"According to some assessments, the cost of modernising the MiG-23 would range from $300,000 to $lm which corresponds to between 8% and 20% of the cost of a new fourth-generation fighter"

So the cost of a fourth-generation fighter is going to be around $5m, so the new LSDI version now has a price of $8m....

I'll get back to everyone after the weekend - I'm moving house! But, I'll do some personal looking around re: avionics..

Remember, this is a sub-contract, and essentially, LSDI is responsible for overall development of the aircraft..


IC:

Provisional details of LSDI prototype for LAS-F8 'Ferret'




Technical details of LAS-F8 'Ferret' prototype

Length: 15.6m
Wingspan: 13.96m - 7.78 (spread - swept)
Height: 4.82m
Weight Empty: 10 200kg
Max T/O: 17 800kg
Max Speed: Mach 2.4
Range: 2050km
Ceiling: 19 000m
Powerplant: one LAS-TR7 BHI turbojet
Thrust: 127.5kN


Arklite-23 airborne radar details

http://www.overscan.co.uk/Avionics_files/moskit23.jpg

The first version of modernization envisages replacement of the Sapfir-23 airborne radar or its modified version with the Arklite-23 airborne radar, which is to be installed in the nose section of the fighter in place of the main monoblock (antenna, receiver, transmitters of the main and illuminating channels of the Sapfir-23 airborne radar).

In addition to the Sapfir-23 airborne radar's main operating modes, the Arklite-23 airborne radar features the following additional functions:

AIR-TO-AIR operating mode:
range finding, searching and tracking;
tracking-while-pass of eight targets with simultaneously engaging two targets;
close combat.

AIR-TO-SURFACE operating mode:
mapping when searching for a ground (waterborne) target using:
real beam;
Doppler sharpening beam;
synthesis of the antenna aperture;
detection of moving ground (waterborne) targets;
measurement of distance to the ground.

The Arklite-23 airborne radar is compatible with modern R27R(T),
RVV-AE and R73 air-to-air missiles (as well as R23T and R24T missiles),
Kh-31A air-to-surface missile and also KAB500KR guided bombs, unguided rockets, aircraft gun armament and air bombs.

The furnishing of the fighter with the Arklite-23 multifunctional airborne radar will enable to increase its efficiency due to:
increase of an air target detection range up to 90 km;
use of the mapping mode and employment of the Kh-31A antiship active-homing missiles with a launch range of up to 100 km against waterborne targets, as well as the KAB500KR guided bombs.


Provisional blueprint and photo of prototype of LAS-F8 'Ferret'

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/vvs/planes/mig23mld_001.jpg


[b]The first LAS-F8 'Ferret' prototype on a testing strip[/img]

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/vvs/planes/mig23mld_002.jpg

So you don't need out designs then, huh?

OOC: No, just to see if anyone can come up with anything.. no decisions yet... However, even if I don't select another design.. the whole thing about this is that is a sub-contract, so if you wish to tender for the production of this aircraft (regardless of which design) - you are free to do so, given that out of production cost of say £5m, at least £2.5m would go to you etc etc..

And on orders of 100+ aircraft its not to be sniffed at..

OOC: Though... given your previous MiG-27 design.. I might well be interested in using that as a partner project... (I'll come up with a context for it...)

Dark Angel Industries is interested in pursuing the missile contract. We are currently in the process of developing a high speed LRM missile that is specifically designed to bring down fighters moving at Mach 3+.

Also, we would like promote the LRSAM 144. It is currently produces as a G/A missile, but can easily be retro-fitted for aircraft should we get the contract. check it out at our Munitions department (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=367734&highlight=Dark+Angel)

OOC: Ach, yer just a tad late... I've already posted details of a new missile in the Long-Range fighter thread - near the top of the forum currently, check & you'll see what I mean..

The Empire of Tanthan would like to have the rights to build the Mig-27. The Department of Commerce looking to start production of the aircraft as the first major project of the nation.

We look forward to your reply Lasatania. If you choose to grant us rights to build you will be wired the $4,000,000,000 you had mentioned earlier.

OK - I've taken the MiG-23 version for myself already, though with better systems, for an increase in price.

OOC: The MiG-27 design is Phoenixus's - better discuss that with him, the last MiG-23 design on this thread is my design..

OOC: Ach, yer just a tad late... I've already posted details of a new missile in the Long-Range fighter thread - near the top of the forum currently, check & you'll see what I mean..


damn, any contracts still available? I would read the whole thread but IM short on time lol. If the MiG contract is still up for grabs we have an impressive prototype that should meet your demands.

OOC: Only thing currently left is the high-speed ALCM contract, which no-one has expressed an interest in at all.. it has to be relatively fast - imagine at least 20% faster than current ALCMs, plus it has to have improved guidance systems.. range, short to medium..


That's about it..

(ok well in that case Phoenixus are you intrested in granting us the rights to produce the aircraft and for what price?)

Well as long as Lasatania doesn't want the design, you can purchase the production rights for it for: $1.2bil. That won't cover the specialised systems detailed after the cost given (ie not the Archangel/Wraith etc). Pplus you can only use the combat systems listed on that aircraft - to use them on other aircraft, please purchase the rights for them from my storefront (check sig).

Okay, we will wire you the $1,200,000,000 for the rights to it. Thank you.

At this time we are not intrested in currently buying more rights to other aircraft.

OOC: Given your efforts, we'd be willing to build about two dozen of the MiG-27 design under license in exchange for two dozen squadrons of LAS-F8's.. merely for testing purposes..

Lasatania, are you talking to me? If so, do you mean that you wish to build 12 of Prototype 1 instead of building 12 of your own aircraft? If that is so, then sure, Knock your self out. I'm using the MiG-23 version so the MiG-27 is a free for all.

OOC: OK, I take it you mean your MiG-23 version... (This is getting confusing now!) :)

OOC: Yeah I agree. Right, the first one I made, based on the MiG-27 shall be known as P-1, and the second one, based on the MiG-23 shall be called P-2.

Now you want to build 12 P-1's instead of 12 of your LAS-F8's correct?

OOC: No, I'm going to build 12 P-1s for testing purposes.. In exchange I'll give you 12 LAS-F8's and/or limited production rights..

Ah. Ok then. By limited production rights, you mean for internal use only, right? If so, then I'll just take the 12 aircraft, but if the produciton rights are for export, then I'll have them instead. (I promise I won't sell them cheaper than you, lol).

well, just because I am really excited about this new design, I will show you the blue-prints anyways lol

MiG-27 "Raven Prototype"
http://usera.imagecave.com/Daishi/mig-27-line.JPG

Its a VTOL aircraft, using a F119 engine.
no stats yet, that is on the way. does any body have any suggestions for further improvement? take note of the larger air intakes and the F-15 style cockpit. perhaps someone has an estimated price range of a retro-fit of this type?


design copyright Dark Tower Industries

I hate to sound noobish, but what does ACLM stand for?

Looks alright, though I would prefer a purpose built VTOL aircraft. As for cost, probably around an extra $5-10mil you've got to replace the entire engine, plus make room for all those VTOL exhausts.

The idea is to completley gut the MiG-27 Flogger of its engine, upgrade its weapons/tracking systems and Radar system, as well as Anti-missile defense and decrease its overall weight. I want to make it Carrier-able and affordable. Also, because of the new engine type and lower weight, its max speed should reach well over Mach 2.

I hate to sound noobish, but what does ACLM stand for?


ALCM = Air Launched Cruise Missile

as opposed to

SLCM - Submarine Launched Cruise Missile

what is the regular price, speed, and weight of a MiG-27 Flogger?

OOC: Price is probably in the range of $8m to $12m tops.. you'll get stats for it if you enter

MiG-27 + fas

into google, then select the first hit..

lol where do you think I got the origional pic from? it doesnt have any of the stats I asked about, hence why I asked them here. Thanks for the price.

here are the stats for the Raven:

Primary Function: Low cost Carrier able multi-role, VTOL fighter
Manufacturer: Dark Angel Industries
Cost: $14M ($5M if you already have the MiG-27 and just want the retro-fit)
Crew: One
Role: multi-role fighter
Propulsion: Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 engine
Speed: Mach 2.6
Length: 56 ft
Span: 46 ft, 9 in
Ceiling: 60,000 feet
Cruise range: 1000 Nautical Miles
Systems: AN/ALQ-135(V) internal countermeasures system
AN/ALQ-128 radar warning [Magnavox] suite
AN/ALR-56 radar warning receiver (RWR) [Loral]
AN/ALE-45 chaff/flare dispensers [Tracor]
AN/AVQ-26 Pave Tack
AN/AXQ-14 Data Link System
LANTIRN
Armament: 30mm rotary cannon, six AIM-120 AMRAAM Slammer and 4 AIM-132 ASRAAM, ECN Pod, UV-32-57 rocket pod, AA-8 Aphid, FAB-500


The MiG-27 "Raven" is an upgraded MiG-27 Flogger, with superior engine, weapons, tracking system, radar systems, and decreased weight then its predecessor. It is faster and more versatile then the origional MiG-27, but the most noticable change is the engine swap, giving it VTOL abilities (Vertical Take Off/Landing), making it carrier-able. It uses a similar propulsion system to the Z-1 Aunin, based around the F115 engine. It also feature larger air intakes for improved engine performace and thrust.


Anything you think I should add/remove?

man that's nice. The upgrade price is actually right on target for all the upgrades it seems too.

is it nice enough for you to buy some? lol


thanks

did you not realize I paid 1.2 bil to be able to make them? I don't get any other aircraft stuff, but hey its an investment so I don't need to run off and buy more should I need to go to war.

did you not realize I paid 1.2 bil to be able to make them? I don't get any other aircraft stuff, but hey its an investment so I don't need to run off and buy more should I need to go to war.

you never bought the production rights to my model, it is not for sale at the moment.

Blacktower, he bought the rights to my prototype 1 version.

Yeah, but he already explained I cannot do any of the upgrades you are planning without buying a new set. So your model is supieror when your done with it. I copied the stats of the thing so I don't get confused with your model. :)

okie lol