NationStates Jolt Archive

Hey, I'm not exactly an expert on this sort of thing, so I'm calling in help. Please tell me... is the following feasable, and what specifiations do you think it should have in terms of speed, displacement, capacity, etc.?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/commando_burns/Morgue.gif
Morgue Class

Sonic Emitters

Sorry, the caption in the picture is wrong. Basically, I've given up on trying to hide my subs in favor of diguising them. The engines can run at a low noise level with the sound of an orca pod or something being broadcasted over the noise. Who would shoot at a pod of whales? Waste of ammo.

Vertical Tubes/105mm Arty

I'm thinking of using these only if there is little to no assault personell aboard the vessel. The tubes can be used for surgical strikes by the submarine, as to knock out beach defences. The arty can be used for this purpose as well, however requireing the sub to surface.

Tactics

For use in moderately large assault numbers with the Regal-Class (http://s6.invisionfree.com/International_Mall/index.php?showtopic=1104).

Thanks to those who help!!

OOC: I suck at naval RPs, but sonic emitters that transmit the noise of a pod of whales would be pretty damn stupid.

I mean, WTF would more than one pod of whales be doing in such close proximity to another?

OOC: Interesting, reminds me of a Japenese submarine class during WWII. The noise emitter is interesting...

OOC: I suck at naval RPs, but sonic emitters that transmit the noise of a pod of whales would be pretty damn stupid.

I mean, WTF would more than one pod of whales be doing in such close proximity to another?


OOC Actully, Orca pods sometimes combine into one huge pod(a superpod). And sometimes they just hang out in the same area. Of course there are other sound s to use(like shrimp or seals).

I'd be very concerned about this design. It's much safer to employ something not so reliant upon one system for safety, for a start. Additionally, while the use of guns is interesting, reloading them and carrying the large amount of ammoneeded for them to be capable of sustained fire might be troublesome.

been stationd on a sub

first wheres your engin room
wheres your prop
the best thing is to just be quiet
try to read blind mans bluff it will give your better specs then i can
also good tactics can befound in the tom clancy book ssn

1) It's an outside view of the sub.

2) The props are covered by hoods, in the back, where it says 'engine output'.

Thanks everyone! I'm working on it right now...

whats your sources of power

Using submarines for surface fire support is pretty stupid.

In the first place, modern submarines are slower and less maneuverable on the surface. This translates directly into vulnerability. I'm assuming that you've never heard of counter-battery fire. As soon as this slow, cumbersome target emerges from the water, deploys the artillery systems, and starts firing, every available gun that bears on it will return fire. Submarines do not perform well when shot full of holes.

In the second place, most submarines are cylindrical. When your guns start firing to one side or the other, the recoil will tend to roll the submarine in the opposite direction. Apparently you aren't familiar with Newton's Laws of Motion.

Submarines are designed to perform very definite functions. Sneaking a special-forces team into enemy territory, destroying enemy surface ships and submarines, or launching massive missile barrages into enemy territory are things that submarines do better than most other platforms.

You would get far more lethality, maneuverability, and survivability with dedicated surface craft of various sorts.


TEO

look up the ssgn

Using submarines for surface fire support is pretty stupid.

In the first place, modern submarines are slower and less maneuverable on the surface. This translates directly into vulnerability. I'm assuming that you've never heard of counter-battery fire. As soon as this slow, cumbersome target emerges from the water, deploys the artillery systems, and starts firing, every available gun that bears on it will return fire. Submarines do not perform well when shot full of holes.

In the second place, most submarines are cylindrical. When your guns start firing to one side or the other, the recoil will tend to roll the submarine in the opposite direction. Apparently you aren't familiar with Newton's Laws of Motion.

Submarines are designed to perform very definite functions. Sneaking a special-forces team into enemy territory, destroying enemy surface ships and submarines, or launching massive missile barrages into enemy territory are things that submarines do better than most other platforms.

You would get far more lethality, maneuverability, and survivability with dedicated surface craft of various sorts.


TEO


You know if subamrien guns were so useless then why as the US navy working on a gun system for the Ohio (or any other sub with trident D-5 tubes). Of coruse it isn't a traditional gun but a vertical firing system developed from the 155mm AGS program which is designed to fire guided rounds. The submarine doesn't need to surface to fire a VGS it only needs to come to periscope depth. The proposed system is designed so that submarine can coem to cosm depth, receive a fire mission, fire off 5-10 rounds and then dive and move, all within a minute or 2 makign coutner abttery fire difficult essepcially when the proposed 5" muntions will out rnage any conventional lad based artillery.

I actually don't like the idea, even though its quite feasible... As I'm one of the main users of submarines, I maintain a doctrine of silence, so I don't like noise... The amount of noise your submarine will now make will only draw the attention of other naval warships in the area...

You know if subamrien guns were so useless then why as the US navy working on a gun system for the Ohio (or any other sub with trident D-5 tubes). Of coruse it isn't a traditional gun but a vertical firing system developed from the 155mm AGS program which is designed to fire guided rounds. The submarine doesn't need to surface to fire a VGS it only needs to come to periscope depth. The proposed system is designed so that submarine can coem to cosm depth, receive a fire mission, fire off 5-10 rounds and then dive and move, all within a minute or 2 makign coutner abttery fire difficult essepcially when the proposed 5" muntions will out rnage any conventional lad based artillery.
do you have any idea how noisy that would be i was on an ohio class
just launching after launching one nuke if there was an enamy sub around you would be lucky (and the enamy would have to suck) to be able to launch the last nuke

look up the ssgn

SSGNs don't fire 105mm artillery... they are missile guided submarines - they fire surface to surface missiles.

Ok, if you're trying to build a successful submarine you need to learn the types:

SSK
These are diesel powered attack submarines. These are generally less noisy than a nuclear powered submarine. HOWEVER, when you're recharging the batteries, and thus using your diesel engines, you're emitting so much noise you'll wake up New York. In other words, when you're recharging sonar will pick you up like nothing. SSKs are better on the defensive.

SSN
Nuclear attack submarines. Normally carry torpedoes and attack surface ships. However, modern ones have verticle launch tubes and give them anti-shipping missiles. Nowadays in Nation States SSNs take the place of SSGNs as surface to surface launchers.

SSGN
Like an SSN..only slower, carries more fire power, and fires surface to surface missiles.

_______________________________

Now:

All submarines suffer from one fatal flaw. That's called cavitation. Cavitation is the popping noise the bubbles that cluster around screw makes. This was taken care of by Catepillar Drive - but Catepillar Drive is somewhat slow, and can still be picked up.

Another Thing:

Your going to want to put an anachoic tile layer around your submarine. Anachoic tiles absorb active pinging at long ranges. Of course, if there's a destroyer one kilometers away, pinging you, he's going to find you.


If others haven't answered other problems I'll come back..but I have to go now.

OOC: As for qualifications, I left the United States Navy, as a FT1/SS in 1997. Last command was the USS Hampton, SSN-767 a flight 4 LA class.

There are several fundamental problems with your overall design.

Hull shape, is too boxed, would create a great deal of cavitation.

Design lacks any driving planes whatsoever...

No powerplant consideration. The vessel has 1/2 the space being used for transport capability, and the other 1/2 for weapons capability, with no space consideration for powerplant.

You should look into the incorporation of redundant power production, nuclear/diesel nuclear/nuclear diesel/diesel.

Questionable use of fairwaters. The vessel has two fairwaters side by side. Fairwaters in sub design are used to house masts and what not.... so the question rises as to why have two?

Also, the dual system of propulsion in the rear, while it may increase maneuverability, it also decreases your ability to counter cavitation and flow-noise (your Orca sounds won't mask cavitation and flow-noise)

Also, you should think about at least employing some form of subsurface defensive capability... countermeasures, torpedo drones, etc. And need to make provision for shipboard sonar.

Your design also lacks the fundamental design characteristics for ballast tanks.

i never thoght to add coner stuff :headbang:

Thanks for all the input! Back to the drawing board.

SCRAPPED

I actually don't like the idea, even though its quite feasible... As I'm one of the main users of submarines, I maintain a doctrine of silence, so I don't like noise... The amount of noise your submarine will now make will only draw the attention of other naval warships in the area...


Well the VGS is a very specialist system, you would need to come in to about 50km off shore to get any kind of depth fire capability. I think the idea behind it is to only use it when you have total sub/naval dominance as a cheap(ish) source of additional firepower for land forces. I woudl say its analogous to the AC130, you certainly wouldn't use one of those when there are still enemy fighters about. The system could probabaly be be carried out far more cheaply using a surface vessel but i belive the aim is the same as the Ohio SSGN program ie a way to make use of expensive assets that you don't really need anymore. Of course it could be that a subsurface firing platform would be less vunerable to sea conditions...

Well, the Hercules is still a great aircraft and it cannot be compared with an Ohio Class SSGN...

I understand what you mean, but I still don't like the idea... :rolleyes: :p