NationStates Jolt Archive

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

The Island of Rose requires a new SubMachine Gun to replace the venerable UZI. This is because we are unwilling to change to a sissy 9mm pistol. We are sticking with out .45s damn it! So in order to make bullet making more efficient and things, we are looking for the following things.

-Must be of .45 Caliber
-Must be small
-Must hold 30 or more rounds
-Must not be of HK variant
-Must be easy to mass produce
-Must be cheap
-Must have a laser sight (optional or installed)
-Foldable stock
-Easy to use
-Must have a silencer (optional or installed)
-Must not be the P90 from Belgium

Lowest bid wins! As in, the cheapest and the one who meets all these qualification is the winner! Come on down folks!
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff
-Minister of War: General Alexander Roska

((OOC: I'm sure this is impossible to get, but I can try...))

We humbly present to you, the AKS-74U. Lightweight, durable, rugged, and powerful.

Comes with:
Silencer
Grenade Launcher
Laser sight (Must be bought elsewhere)

Capabilities:
Cartridge: 5.45 x 39.5 mm
Weight: 3.2 kg loaded; 2.7 kg empty
Barrel: 206.5 mm
Rate of fire: (cyclic) 650-735 rds/min
Operation: gas, selective fire
Feed: 30-round magazine
Length: 490 mm with butt folded; 730 mm butt extended
Muzzle velocity: 735 m/s

And for added convinience, a photograph of the AKS-74U with folded stock, along with grenade launcher and silencer:
http://www.sovietarmy.com/small_arms/aks-74ui_icon.jpg

We're willing to sell you 1,000,000 surplus of these weapons, as our military is upgrading to another weapon at this time. The general price for each one is 100 Becels (20 USD)
_____________________
Minister von Verteidigung
Minister of Defense

Kai Leopold

http://world.guns.ru/smg/am180-3.jpg
Caliber: .22 Short Magnum rimfire :)
Weight: 2.6 kg empty; approx. 4.5 kg with loaded 176-round magazine
Length: 900 mm (35 ½ in)
Barrel length: 470 mm (18 ½ in) standard; 229 mm (9 in) short.
Rate of fire: 1500 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 275 rounds
Effective range: 100 meters

It can carry a laser sight, silencer, and can be stockless.

ooc: Assuming you want a submachine gun, not a machine pistol...

Hobbitstan is pleased to say that by a happy coincidence, it may be able to suit your needs. Post-WW2, Hobbitstan( actually a precursor state, but anyway) acquired the rights to produce the .45 Thompson sub-machinegun and to produce variants. For 50 years, the Korgratz factory has produced small arms, and the Thompson line has never shut down.

The latest version, the Koz'02 is based around a lightweight steel and plastic body, with a pistol grip, a tubular stock which can slide inside the body and a 30 round straight magazine, although a 75-round drum mag is available.

The barrel is ready to accept any silencer or extension, although non-Kongratz approved parts will void the warranty. There is an attachment point under the barrel for a laser sight or flashlight, and the iron sights on top have grooves to accept a scope (although the company hastens to point out that the Koz'02 is generally accurate in automatic mode only to a range which renders the scope superflous).

The Koz'02 can be fired in semi, burst or automatic, and clears a 30 round magazine in under 4 seconds in fully automatic. Recoil is a touch on the heavy side compared to other SMGs, but prolonged fire is likely to be unnecessary- its calibre is heavier than most comparable weapons, meaning quick elimination of the target.

The unit retails for $150, with three magazines per unit. In bulk, $1o0,000 will get you 800 submachineguns. Ammunition is not supplied.

We will be happy to provide a list of approved accessories, especially laser-sights.

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

Buechoria We want .45s (even though we can change the ammo type), plus AKs are old, we're trying to modernize, which is the purpose of this bid. We refuse, unless you have something better.

Brydog: We wanted .45 as our caliber. But can we change it to .45 then? Also, a picture would be nice, it is starting to look attractive.

Hobbitstan: A picture would be nice.
Remember, we are looking for production rights, we don't want to import.
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

We got a .45ACP verison, and a .44 Magnum verison.
You can also get the Standard verison
http://world.guns.ru/smg/am180-1.jpg

We got a .45ACP verison, and a .44 Magnum verison

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

Can we see how it looks like?
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

The Buechorian military is deeply dissapointed in your decision to reject the AKS-74U. True, it might be old, but does that make it any less powerful?
Thank you for your interest, at any rate.

_____________________
Minister von Verteidigung
Minister of Defense

Kai Leopold

OOC: Looking in my The Illustrated Book of Guns. If I can find a .45 cal. submachine gun, I will post it.

It the same as the .22 version but it carries a 175 round drum.

Official Imperial Response-

If its a .45 you're looking for, we have the answer. We present you, with the M2 'Thomson II' submachinegun. It's basicly the venerable M1 Thomson, only modernised with rails and can be fitted with a grenade launcher. Laser sight is also optional. It's also made with more lightweight material, such as a black polymer stock, and is easier to produce. It's also extremely rugged and reliable.

M2
Caliber .45ACP
Weight, empty 4.2 kg
Lenght 811 mm
Barrel lenght 267 mm
Rate of fire ~ 700 rpm
Magazine capacity 30 rounds box or 50 round drum
Effective range ~ 50 meters

OOC:Sry, no pics.

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

Your offers are being reviewed. Currently we are moving towards the Doominglandian offer of the M2. But come on folks, you can produce something better right? Please?
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

Ingram 11
Length (gun): 10.5 in
Barrel length: 5.75 in
Weight: 6.4 lb
Chamber: .45 in
Rifling: 5 grooves, r/hand
Operation: Blowback
Capacity: 30 - round magazine
Cyclic rate: 1,100 rpm
Muz vel: 900 ft/sec (275 m/sec.)

La France 0.45 M16K
Length (gun): 26.6 in
Barrel length: 7.2 in
Weight: 8.5 lb
Chamber: .45 in
Rifling: 6 grooves, r/hand
Operation: Blowback
Capacity: 30 - round magazine
Cyclic rate: 625 rpm
Muz vel: 853 ft/sec (260 m/sec.)

Both can have laser sight & silencers put on the them.

OOC: Can't find pics.

M-7 Submachine gun
http://world.guns.ru/smg/colt635.jpg

Caliber: .45HP
Weight: 2.59 kg empty
Lenght (stock closed/open): 650 / 730 mm
Barrel lenght: 260 mm
Rate of fire: 900 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 20 or 32 rounds
Effective range: 200 meters

As the developers of this model, Hobbitstan is keen to retain its rights. On the other hand, it is aware that its industries are below the norm. Hobbitstan would suggest that the Island of the Rose provides (possibly even second hand) industrial capital in the form of factories or technical advisors in payment for the schematics.

Pictures:http://guns.connect.fi/gow/scannon.jpg
A drum magazined, wooden stocked version. The barrels have been perforated to lower weight, while the ones Hobbitstan is proposing to sell are solid to allow suppressors, and would have polymer and aluminum bodies.

http://www.customthings.com/Images1/Thompson45CalSub-MachineGunM1.jpg

Same model as above, with a straight mag and solid barrel.

OOC: I'll mock up pictures of the Koz'02 later, here are some of actual sub-machineguns.

With its metal body, compact frame and collapsing stock, the Koz'02 most resembles the "greasegun", AKA M3A1, a thompson derivative itself.

http://www.secondeguerre.net/Armes/greasegun.jpg
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:sHtPk6KfYSUJ:www.dodarg.com.ar/archivos

The Koz'02 would have far better aesthetic aspects though. :P

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

-Wolf America: We reject the Ingram due to the fact that in tests it performed poorly. But La France M16K looks interesting, a picture would be excellent.

-Brydog: Do you have a picture?
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

((OOC: You know, I need to know how these guns look like =/ ))

Official Imperial Response-

...and if that last offer still didn't completely satisfy you, check out this one, the Calico M1045. Its basicly a Calico M960 chambered for a .45.

M1045-
Caliber: .45 ACP
Weight: 3 kg empty
Length (stock closed/open): 647 / 835 mm
Barrel length: 330 mm
Rate of fire: 730 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 50 or 100 rounds

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/Doomingsland/calico960a1.jpg

Venom Corporation sells a variety of machine guns that could fit your requirements:
M2 .50 Caliber Machine Gun
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2hb-s.jpg
Length: 61.42 inches
Weight:
Gun: 84 pounds
M3 Tripod (Complete): 44 pounds
Total: 128 pounds
Bore diameter: .50 inches (12.7mm)
Maximum effective range: 2000 meters with tripod mount
Maximum range: 4.22 miles
Cyclic rate of fire: 550 rounds per minute
Unit Cost: $14,002

M240G Medium Machine Gun
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m240b-sa.jpg
Length: 47.5 inches
Weight: 24.2 pounds
Bore diameter: 7.62mm
Maximum effective range: 1.1 miles on tripod mount
Maximum range: 2.31 miles
Rates of fire:
Cyclic: 650-950 rounds per minute
Rapid: 200 rounds per minute
Sustained: 100 rounds per minute
Unit Cost: $6,600

M60E3 7.62mm Machine Gun
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m60-mg.jpg
Length: 42.4 inches
Weight: 18.75 pounds
Bore diameter: 7.62mm
Maximum effective range: 3609.1 feet
Maximum range: 2.3 miles
Muzzle velocity: 2800 feet per second
Rates of fire:
Cyclic: 550 rounds per minute
Rapid: 100 rounds per minute*
Sustained: 100 rounds per minute*
(* with barrel changes at each 100 rounds)
Unit Cost: $6,000

MK19 40mm Machine Gun, MOD 3
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/...-19-dvic560.jpg
Length: 43.1 inches
Weight:
Gun: 72.5 pounds
Cradle (MK64 Mod 5): 21.0 pounds
Tripod: 44.0 pounds
Total: 137.5 pounds
Muzzle velocity: 790 feet per second
Bore diameter: 40mm
Maximum range: 2200 meters
Maximum effective range: 1600 meters
Rates of fire:
Cyclic: 325-375 rounds per minute
Rapid: 60 rounds per minute
Sustained: 40 rounds per minute
Unit Cost: $13,758

Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW), M249 Light Machine Gun
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m249-3.jpg
Primary function: Hand-held combat machine gun
Length: 40.87 inches
Weight:
With bipod and tools: 15.16 pounds
200-round box magazine: 6.92 pounds
30-round magazine: 1.07 pounds
Bore diameter: 5.56mm (.233 inches)
Maximum effective range: 3281 feet for an area target
Maximum range: 2.23 miles
Rates of fire:
Cyclic: 725 rounds per minute
Sustained: 85 rounds per minute
Unit Cost: $4,087

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

Hobbitstan: Our industries are good thank you very much. We are a leading porno exporter and Rose History International has been a world wide success. We're just stingy bastards that are unwilling to repetedly import weapons, okay? Anyway, your weapon is now under review.
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

OOC:Pic for my latest submission is up, you should find that it looks much cooler than everyone elses.

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

ITD: We're looking for submachine guns not giant uber machine guns. Thank you anyways.

Doomingland: Well, your M2 is now replaced by the Calico M960 and is now under review.
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

-Wolf America: We reject the Ingram due to the fact that in tests it performed poorly. But La France M16K looks interesting, a picture would be excellent.

((OOC: You know, I need to know how these guns look like =/ ))

Here is a pics of the La France M16K (http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2500/2554.htm).

Are you all out of your minds? The Island Of Rose will use all these weapons against you.

Are you all out of your minds? The Island Of Rose will use all these weapons against you.

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

Coreys Land: Eh heh heh... sod off.

Wolf America: Your weapon is now under review.
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

OOC:Pic for my latest submission is up, you should find that it looks much cooler than everyone elses.

OOC: Your pics does look cool but mine are the RL guns that are real .45 cal. The M2 is one but your other one is a 9mm.

OOC:If you read the thing, it says its rechambered for a .45.

Hobbitstan is currently more interested in improving its transport infrastructure and heavy industries that decadent pornography. It will be willing to take payment in US dollars or similar hard currency if necessary however. The ruling commitee has decided that the revenure generated will be used to improve Hobbitstan's rail network, in particular linking its trout-farming freshwater areas to the coast for rapid movement of spoilable goods. The total revenure needed for the project will be around 250m, and it is willing to offer 2 years use of the Koz'02 design to 5 factories on the Island of the rose for:

$1.5m, or 5% of the value of all weapons made (= 7.5 dollars a weapon), whichever is greater, to help raise such funds. Alternatively, economic aid will be accepted as listed previously

You need a new .45 cal model huh? Well i cant offer you a new gun but i can have them manufactured really cheap - since we have the metals and all.

OOC:If you read the thing, it says its rechambered for a .45.

OOC: Both of ours came out in the 90's. It is going to me or you.

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

Review results so far:

-Hobbitstan (Rejected)
-Wolf America (Still in bid)
-Doomingland (Still in bid)
-Brydog (Rejected)

Coreys Land: We refuse politely, we have Prospero 4 for that.

Anyway, Wolf America's and Doomingland's gun are still being reviewed. Complaints about the American gun is that it's too much like an M16 and it looks weak in extreme enviroments, complaints about the Doominglandian gun is that the gun is too large, even though both guns perform wonderfully. Any more offers?
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

OOC:Too large? It's smaller than the M16k, but whatever.

Out of interest, why the rejection? Pricing will be flexible, particularly if its in terms of economic aid.

OOC:Too large? It's smaller than the M16k, but whatever.

OOC: With a 50-round or 10-round drum on the top that makes it too large.

OOC:Yeah, but its much shorter, as the clip goes on horizontaly, making it more compact.

Out of interest, why the rejection? Pricing will be flexible, particularly if its in terms of economic aid.

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

The gun looks uneasy to use. Also, constant payment is a no for the Island. Even though we only had to pay once for two years, we're planning to use the gun for a long time. Plus, we need something modern looking to compete with all these nations. Thanks for playing.
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

((OOC: Doomingland, when it's bigger then an UZI without the stock, it's big for me. Whatever, you're still in the bid :P ))

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

Review results so far:

-Hobbitstan (Rejected)
-Wolf America (Still in bid)
-Doomingland (Still in bid)
-Brydog (Rejected)

Coreys Land: We refuse politely, we have Prospero 4 for that.

Anyway, Wolf America's and Doomingland's gun are still being reviewed. Complaints about the American gun is that it's too much like an M16 and it looks weak in extreme enviroments, complaints about the Doominglandian gun is that the gun is too large, even though both guns perform wonderfully. Any more offers?
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

It looks like a M16 but a M16 has 0.233in caliber. The M16K is smaller than the M16 and has bigger caliber.

It looks like a M16 but a M16 has 0.233in caliber. The M16K is smaller than the M16 and has bigger caliber.

((OOC: Eh. I just hope either one of you is willing to sell prod and selling rights after this.))

OOC:No, I own both a .223 and a .45 and the .223 is definately a larger caliber. Its bigger length-wise, and has more stopping power than a .45. But than again, you're not gonna put a .223 in a sub machinegun. The M16k is bigger than an Uzi without the stock.

OOC:Sure, I'd give you both, but you'd have to cite that we designed it when you sell.

up

((OOC: Eh. I just hope either one of you is willing to sell prod and selling rights after this.))

Sure. You'd have to said that the USWA designed it, if you sell it.

OOC: .45 in is a big caliber for a submachine gun.

OOC: .45 in is a big caliber for a submachine gun.

((OOC: But it's manly!))

((OOC: But it's manly!))

OOC: I know. Plus, will hollow point think of the damage.

Chellis would offer the Ump-45, but its an HK variant. Its too bad, because the UMP fulfills every other requirement.

Tylinoa presents the UMP45

Caliber .45 ACP
Ammunition Feed Staggered magazines;
25-round capacity
Cyclic rate Approx. 580 RPM with ball ammo
Approx. 700 RPM with +P ammo
Sight Radius 12.80 inches
Weight: with empty
magazine 5.01 pounds
Barrel length 7.87 inches
Overall length 17.71 inches with stock folded
27.17 inches with stock extended
Width 2.50 inches
Height 12.76 inches with 25-rd mag inserted

UMP45 (http://www.duta.co.uk/images/gunpics/smg/ump45.gif)

same what chellis said but you might want to take a look at it.

((OOC: I said no HK guns, they're overrated...))

((OOC: I said no HK guns, they're overrated...))

OOC: I agree they are, but im just saying, it meets every performance requirement...

OOC:If he didn't say no HK guns, I would have offered the UMP.

OOC:So, ready to tell us who won so I can go back to playing Rome Total War?

OOC:So, ready to tell us who won so I can go back to playing Rome Total War?

OOC: Yeah.

OOC:Ahhh, screw it, I'll check back in an hour.

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

After much debate we have chosen the Calico as our new submachine gun. We are now open to negotiations with the Doomlandian Government from production rights and selling rights. And maybe possible rename it. Thank you, and good day.
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

((OOC: That Calico is so sexeh...))

OOC:Got to eat dinner, back in twenty minutes.

OOC:Twenty minutes exactly.

Official Imperial Response

We are very pleased to hear that you have chosen our design. We already have a contract drafted out that should be to your liking,

1.Client shall pay 200 million for unlimited production and sales rights.

2.Client shall cite that it was a Doomingslandian design when selling.

3.Client is free to rename the product, so long as it does not infringe on article two.

We hope you find this contract appeasing.

OOC:Yeah, I figured you'd want a cool looking SMG, so I opened up my big book of guns sitting on my desk, and found the Calico.(which I already had in mind, actualy)

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

Deal. Money wired... now.
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

((OOC: Yeah, I usually pick good looking and good working guns :P ))

OOC:Well, that's my second successful arms deal in...ever, first one was with CM(DA), I'm the one who supplied him with all of his infantry weapons.

OOC:Yeah, I figured you'd want a cool looking SMG, so I opened up my big book of guns sitting on my desk, and found the Calico.(which I already had in mind, actualy)

OOC: I did that, too. But I looked for .45 Caliber submachine guns that are in real life. But it is TioR loss and it troops, who in the right mind would carry a 100-round drum will them?

OOC: I did that, too. But I looked for .45 Caliber submachine guns that are in real life. But it is TioR loss and it troops, who in the right mind would carry a 100-round drum will them?

((OOC: Every NRA member in the world :P ))

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

Deal. Money wired... now.
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

((OOC: Yeah, I usually pick good looking and good working guns :P ))

OOC: Because he rechambered it, you don't know that it would work right.

((OOC: Every NRA member in the world :P ))

OOC: Think of the weight of one 100-round drum or two 50-round drum. That would slow down your troops.

OOC: Because he rechambered it, you don't know that it would work right.

((OOC: Hey, this is NS. They have pistols with 7.62 ammo. Besides, a little twinking and it should work... eh. Most people get guns and rechamber it all the time.))

OOC:The hundred round drum mags are actualy pretty small, and you don't have to reload as often.

OOC:The hundred round drum mags are actualy pretty small, and you don't have to reload as often.

OOC: You said rate of fire is 730 rounds per minute. That is 7 100-round drums and one 50-round drum. And if a battle last for a hour, that is 43,800 per hour. That is 438 100-round drums.

OOC: You said rate of fire is 730 rounds per minute. That is 7 100-round drums and one 50-round drum. And if a battle last for a hour, that is 43,800 per hour. That is 438 100-round drums.
OOC: Just randomly popping into the thread to say this arguement makes no sense unless all battles consist of hosing down enemies for hours on end. By this logic you're own weapons would be even worse, having puny standard sized magazines.

((OOC: Couldn't have said it better myself. Besides, it'll be used on every soldier. They'll have it on their waist just for emergencies.))

((OOC: Couldn't have said it better myself. Besides, it'll be used on every soldier. They'll have it on their waist just for emergencies.))

OOC: That is what sidearms are for.

OOC: That is what sidearms are for.

((OOC: Still, it's nice to have an SMG on your waist and a Colt .45 :P ))

OOC: Just randomly popping into the thread to say this arguement makes no sense unless all battles consist of hosing down enemies for hours on end. By this logic you're own weapons would be even worse, having puny standard sized magazines.

OOC: It does make sense. Here is an Ex. Said one of you base is being attack and you have to hold off for a hour before the backup comes and help you. And most of my guns have 30-round magazines.
The USWA uses:
Heckler and Koch G11 - 50 rounds (Assault Rifles)
Colt M4 assault rifle w/ M203 40mm grenade launcher - 30 rounds (Assault Rifles)
AK-108 - 30 rounds (Assault Rifles)
XM8 Lightweight Assault Rifle - 30 rounds or 50 round drum (Assault Rifles)
Ruger MP9 - 32 rounds (Submachine Guns)
PP-90 submachine gun - 30 rounds (Submachine Guns)
Colt mod. 635 - 32 rounds (Submachine Guns)
P90 submachine gun - 50 rounds (Submachine Guns)
Heckler and Koch MP-5k - 30 rounds (Submachine Guns)

((OOC: Still, it's nice to have an SMG on your waist and a Colt .45 :P ))

OOC: This is what you need PP-90 submachine gun (http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg10-e.htm), it folds up.

OOC: I think the Calico certainly meets your coolness requirement. 8)
OOC:No, I own both a .223 and a .45 and the .223 is definately a larger caliber. Its bigger length-wise, and has more stopping power than a .45.Caliber refers to diameter, not length or 'stopping power'.
Besides, it'll be used on every soldier. They'll have it on their waist just for emergencies.A Calico on the waist of every soldier? o.O
.45 in is a big caliber for a submachine gun.I'd say it's about right.
The hundred round drum mags are actualy pretty smallThe (non-drum) magazines are indeed a lot smaller than they appear to be in pictures. However, it'll be larger in .45cal than in 9mm Parabellum.

I'm surprised you rejected the Tommy Gun... Roycelandia still uses the M1928A1 with the 50 round Drum magazine even today.

Failing that, there are plenty of other good SMGs, including the Lanchester, PPSh-41, MP-40, and the Owen Gun (all of which are in service with Roycelandian forces).

Just because it's an "old" design doesn't mean it's no good...