NationStates Jolt Archive

Hey there, people of NS-world. Not certain if this belongs here - it might be better in NationStates - but anyway.

I've recently begun to reorganise all ground forces units, and get a good inventory of all their equipment. I've completed work on the Motor-Rifle Division, and was wondering if I could get some feedback as to what's good and bad about the structure of the unit.

Unit organisations


Mechanised Infantry units

Squad: 8 men, 1 IFV
Platoon: 32 men, 4 IFVs
Company: 128 men, 16 IFVs
Battalion: 320 men, 40 IFVs
Regiment: 960 men, 120 IFVs.


Armoured and recce units

Platoon: 4 vehicles
Company: 16 vehicles
Battalion: 32 vehicles
Regiment: 96 vehicles


Artillery units (gun, mortar, MRLS, SAM/AAA)

Battery: 4 guns/, 2 resupply MT-LBs, 1 battery control vehicle (ACRV M1974-1 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mt-lbu.htm)) (Artillery and AAA units)

SAM units: 4 launchers, 1 long-range surveillance radar, 1 battery control vehicle, 2 resupply Transloaders.

Battalion: 16 guns, 10 MT-LB resupply w/trailers, 1 SNAR-10 battlefield surveillance radar, 4 ACRV M1974-1 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mt-lbu.htm) battery fire-control vehicle, 1 ACRV M1974-2 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mt-lbu.htm) battalion fire-control vehicle.

SAM units: 16 launchers, 4 long-range surveillance radar, 4 battery control vehicle, 8 resupply Transloaders.

Brigade: 2 Battalions, 1 ACRV M1974-2


Motor-Rifle Division

One Headquarters company

Three Mechanised Rifle Regiments

Two tank regiments
One independent Tank battalion

One independent 122mm SP artillery battalion
One 122mm SP artillery regiment
One 152mm SP artillery regiment
One 203mm SP artillery regiment
One heavy mechanised mortar regiment
One MRLS regiment
One towed 125mm AT gun battalion

Two short-range SAM battalions
Two mid-range SAM battalions
One long-range SAM battalion
Three AAA battalions

One reconnaissance company

One engineer battalion (320 engineers, 80 engineering vehicles)

One SSM battery (6 SS-26 TELARs, two ACRV M1974-1 control units)

One electronic warfare battalion

One helicopter attack regiment

One transport helicopter regiment

One airborne electronic warfare regiment

One Spetznaz platoon

Supply units


224 T-94B (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=351247) MBTs

360 BMP-3M (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/bmp-3/) IFVs

48 2S1 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2s1.htm) 122mm howitzers
32 2S19 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2s19.htm) 152mm howitzers
32 2S7 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2s7.htm) 203mm guns
32 2S4 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2s4.htm) 240mm mechanised mortars
16 BM-22 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/9p140.htm) 220mm MRLS
16 BM-30 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/9a52.htm) 300mm MRLS
16 2A45 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2a45.htm) 125mm ATG

32 SA-19 (2S6M) (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2s6m.htm) SAM/AAA units*
32 SA-15 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-15.htm) SAM launchers*
16 SA-10 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-10.htm) SAM launchers
48 ZSU-23-4V1 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/zsu-23-4.htm) SP AA guns

16 BRM (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/brm-1.htm) reconnaissance vehicles
16 BRDM-2RKh (http://www.sovietarmy.com/vehicles/brdm-2.html) NBC reconnaissance vehicles

120 MT-LB (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mt-lb.htm) utility vehicles**
48 ACRV M1974-1 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mt-lbu.htm) battery fire-control and command vehicles
12 ACRV M1974-2 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mt-lbu.htm) battalion fire-control and command vehicles
2 ACRV M1974-3 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mt-lbu.htm) division mobile command vehicles

11 SNAR-10 (http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?ACE-72136) battlefield surveillance radars (fire-finder radars)
4 Tombstone engagement radars (SA-10)
4 Clam Shell (http://www.wonderland.org.nz/nw/clamshell_radar.htm) acquisition radars (SA-10)
4 Big Bird designation radars (SA-10)

10 MT-T (http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/traktors/mt-t.php?menu=history4.php) heavy tractors
10 MTU-72 (http://www.rbs.ru/exhibition/UralExpoArms/2000/MTU-72.htm) bridging tanks[/url]
8 PMM-2 (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng1_info.htm) tracked amphibious bridging systems
8 MDK-3 (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng2_info.htm) ditching units
8 IMR-2 (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng3_info.htm) obstacle-clearing units
8 BAT-2 (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng3_info.htm) obstacle-clearing vehicles
4 IRM (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng3_info.htm) engineer reconnaissance vehicles
8 MTK-2 (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng3_info.htm) armoured mice-clearers
8 BREM-1 (http://www.armscontrol.ru/atmtc/Arms_systems/Land/Tanks/T-72/brem-1.jpg) tank-recovery vehicles
16 Ural-375 electronic warfare units (jamming and ESM)

6 SS-26 (http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/theater/ss-26.htm) SRBMs

24 Mi-28N2 (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=336823) attack helicopters
24 Mi-18B (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=336823) general-purpose helicopters
24 Mi-17 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mi-17.htm) EW helicopters (jamming and ESM)

2,400 supply trucks in divisional tail (Ural-375, ZiL-131, GAZ-66)

Approximately 13,000 personnel

* These units do not carry long-range surveillance radars. If they are being used for stationary defence, the command vehicle of each platoon is datalinked to the nearest long-range surveillance radar system.

** These are also used as tractors for the towed ATG battalion.

(For the Engineer equipment entriues, you'll have to scroll to find it. Sorry.

Looks good, but I'd recommend you have only 9 Battalions per division, 10 the most. The person in charge of the division could keep better track of it's forces, and you would be able to carry out orders faster. Or atleast that's how I do it. Overall though it's very good. Looks like you put some thought, and time into this.

Tag

What equipment does an individual motorised infantryman have?

I did wonder about having that many battalions in one unit. Sadly, I couldn't think of any unit to lump two together. If I did, then you'd instead of having 12 artillery battalions have 10 artillery (insert unit name here - brigades maybe?), 1 122mm battalion and 1 125mm battalion.

Depends. A mechnif squad is typically:

1 Squad Leader (AK-74, RGD-5 Frag grenades)
1 Team Leader (AK-74, RGD-5 Frag grenades)
1 GPMG (PKM) operator
1 GPMG ammo bearer
1 RPG-27 operator
1 RPG-27 ammo bearer
2 Grenadiers (AK-74 with GP-30 undershot grenade launcher)

However this can vary. For example in an area with a very high armoured threat, more RPGs would be issued. In an area of high air threat, the squad would be issued SA-18 SAMs. All personnel are trained in the basics of operating such weapons, but the specialists are obviously far more skilled in their use.

I see.

Looks good

(Tag)

Great job DPUO

Should there not be a radio operator?
My standard mechinf squad is:
Sergeant: Sten Gun Mk II
Corporal: Sten Gun Mk II, Radio
Soldier: SMLE Mk 4
Soldier: SMLE Mk 4
Soldier: SMLE Mk 4
Soldier: M72 LAW Loader
Soldier: M72 LAW Operator
Soldier: Bren Gun .303 Loader
Soldier: Bren Gun .303 Operator
Sniper: RSAF L42A1
They all have SMLE Mk4's anyyway, ecept for the sniper.
Standard Motorised Engineer :
Sergeant: Sten Gun Mk II
Corporal: Sten Gun Mk II, Radio
Soldier: Milan Operator
Soldier: Milan Loader
Soldier: .303 L1A1
Soldier: .303 L1A1
Soldier: .303 L1A1
Soldier: Bren Gun .303 Loader
Soldier: Bren Gun .303 Operator
Sniper: Barret .50

Generally for me its
2 Squads and Command unit to a platoon
4 Platoons to a Company
2 companies to a brigade
5 brigades to a battallion
2 battallions to a regiment
2 regiments to a Division, plus division command.

Basically, I'm restricted by my IFV. The BMP-3M only carries an eight-man squad. The idea is that the squad CO (Sergeant) has a radio to communicate with the BMP, and that he can use the BMP's radios to communicate with higher command. The BMPs also carry a radio as standard for the infantry to use, but there's seldom a specially-trained operator for it.

How do you actually start to form a division.

Sigh. Read the stickies.....

Erk. Not sure who first thought of it, but I stole the Soviet Motor-Rifle Division and then altered it.

Steeel0r!11111111111111

Well the system I use, which is based on the US Military Organization, is that there's 9 to 10 Battalions in every division, the 9 or 10 battalions are put into 3 Brigades, 3 Battalions per Brigade if you're using 9.

Battalions usually have 700 to 1,500 personel. Making them into brigades would make the brigades have 2,100 to 4,500 personel. Three Brigades make a Division.

I personally though don't really strictly follow this rule. I tend to have more personel in my brigades, tallying the number to around 20,000 per division depending on it's purpose. Hope this helps.

Mines completely made up ^^

Tiy lew laa suert rguwcwa.

You are all dirty thieves in the Hogsweatian language.

Mine is made up too, but I have more than 100 divisions for my army alone, and I kinda think that it's very big. I don't really know how to form units and stuff, and I just did this:

Lets say I have 3 million troops. Assuming each divison has 20,000 men, I divided 3 million by 20,000 to obtain 150 divisons.

Can someone give me some advice on unit formations and such, and whether what I did was right?

What you did sounds alright, although not sure about 3 million troops.... I have something around 400 divisions, 2 million men.

I have 96ish divisions with just under 2 Million men. Over half logistical other half combat.

Right, I've altered it a bit. Each two battalions of artillery now forms a regiment, commanded by a Colonel.

Alright. Why arent' you talking on MSN?

'Cos I'm a lazy clusterf**k. :)

Sounds about right :-) go have a look at my new APC.

US divisions have roughly five brigades. Three of those brigades are the main combat forces and have a Brigade Combat Team (includes ADA, Support, and sometimes Artillery) in support. The fourth brigade is usually the unit with the transport/assault and attack helos. The fifth brigade, as I like to call it, is just a series of battalions and companies that round out the capabilities of the division. To give you an idea of what I'm talking about I'll show you what one of my Armoured Divisions looks like.

Armoured Division
Headquarters Company
(2 M8 Maverick CFVs)
1st Brigade
Headquarters Company (6 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Infantry Battalion
Headquarters Company (18 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Alpha Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Bravo Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Charlie Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Armour Battalion
Headquarters Company (15 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Alpha Company (20 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Bravo Company (19 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Charlie Company (19 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Armour Battalion
Headquarters Company (15 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Alpha Company (20 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Bravo Company (19 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Charlie Company (19 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Brigade Combat Team
Field Artillery
Headquarters Battery (15 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Alpha Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Bravo Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Charlie Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Service Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Engineering Battalion
Headquarters Company
Alpha Company
Bravo Company
Charlie Company
Forward Support Battalion
Alpha Company
Bravo Company
Charlie Company

2nd Brigade
Headquarters Company (6 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Infantry Battalion
Headquarters Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Alpha Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Bravo Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Charlie Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Infantry Battalion
Headquarters Company (18 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Alpha Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Bravo Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Charlie Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Armour Battalion
Headquarters Company (15 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Alpha Company (20 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Bravo Company (19 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Charlie Company (19 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Brigade Combat Team
Field Artillery
Headquarters Battery (15 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Alpha Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Bravo Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Charlie Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Service Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
F Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Engineering Battalion
Headquarters Company
Alpha Company
Bravo Company
Charlie Company
Service Company
Forward Support Battalion
Alpha Company
Bravo Company
Charlie Company

3rd Brigade
Headquarters Company (6 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Infantry Battalion
Headquarters Company (18 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Alpha Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Bravo Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Charlie Company (18 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Armour Battalion
Headquarters Company (15 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Alpha Company (20 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Bravo Company (19 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Charlie Company (19 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Armour Battalion
Headquarters Company (15 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Alpha Company (20 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Bravo Company (19 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Charlie Company (19 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Brigade Combat Team
Field Artillery
Headquarters Battery (15 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Alpha Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Bravo Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Charlie Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Service Battery (18 M10 Galahad Howitzers)
Engineering Battalion
Headquarters Company
Alpha Company
Bravo Company
Charlie Company
Forward Support Battalion
Alpha Company
Bravo Company
Charlie Company
Air Defense Battalion
Headquarters Battery (18 M8 Maverick Missile Variant)
Alpha Battery (18 M8 Maverick Missile Variant)
Bravo Battery (18 M8 Maverick Missile Variant)
Charlie Battery (18 M8 Maverick Missile Variant)
Delta Battery (18 M8 Maverick Missile Variant)
Signals Company

4th Brigade
Cavalry Regiment
Headquarters Troop (13 M8 Maverick CFVs)
Apache Troop (13 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Bandit Troop (13 M8 Maverick IFVs)
Comanche Troop (27 M7 Jackson MBTs)
Desperado Troop (16 UH-24 Tiger Helos)
Falcon Troop (16 UH-24 Tiger Helos)
Aviation Battalion
Headquarters Company (38 AH-32 Panther Helos)
Alpha Company (38 AH-32 Panther Helos)
Bravo Company (38 AH-32 Panther Helos)
Echo Company (38 AH-32 Panther Helos)
Aviation Battalion
Headquarters Company (38 UH-24 Tiger Helos)
Alpha Company (38 UH-24 Tiger Helos)
Bravo Company (38 UH-24 Tiger Helos)
Echo Company (38 UH-24 Tiger Helos)
Aviation Support Battalion
Alpha Company (19 UH-24E Tiger Helos)
Bravo Company (16 UH-24 Tiger Helos)
HQ & Supply Company (16 UH-24 Tiger Helos)
Chemical company

Division Artillery
Field Artillery Battalion
Headquarters Battery (18 M9 Morgan MLRS)
Alpha Battery (18 M9 Morgan MLRS)
Bravo Battery (18 M9 Morgan MLRS)
Charlie Battery (18 M9 Morgan MLRS)
Delta Battery (18 M9 Morgan MLRS)

Main Support Battalion
Headquarters Company
Alpha Company
Bravo Company
Charlie Company
Delta Company
Echo Company

Signal Battalion
Headquarters Company
Alpha Company
Bravo Company
Charlie Company

Air Defense Artillery
Headquarters Battery (18 M8 Maverick Missile Variant)
Alpha Battery (18 M8 Maverick Missile Variant)
Bravo Battery (18 M8 Maverick Missile Variant)
Charlie Battery (18 M8 Maverick Missile Variant)
Delta Battery (18 M8 Maverick Missile Variant)

Military Police Battalion
Headquarters Company
Alpha Company
Bravo Company
Charlie Company

Military Intelligence Battalion
Headquarters Company
Alpha Company
Bravo Company
Charlie Company

Bump

Naval Infantry Division

One Headquarters company

Three Mechanised Rifle Regiments

Two tank regiments

One 122mm SP artillery regiment
One 152mm SP artillery battalion
One MRLS battalion
One 120mm gun/mortar regiment

Two short-range SAM battalions
Two mid-range SAM battalions
One long-range SAM battalion
Three AAA battalions

One reconnaissance company

One engineer battalion (320 engineers, 80 engineering vehicles)

One electronic warfare battalion

One helicopter attack regiment

One transport helicopter squadron

One airborne electronic warfare squadron

Supply units


192 T-95M (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=351247) MBTs

360 BMP-3M (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/bmp-3/) IFVs

32 2S1 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2s1.htm) 122mm howitzers
16 2S19 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2s19.htm) 152mm howitzers
16 BM-30 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/9a52.htm) 300mm MRLS
32 2S9 (url=http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2s9.htm) self-propelled 120mm gun/mortars

32 SA-19 (2S6M) (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2s6m.htm) SAM/AAA units*
32 SA-15 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-15.htm) SAM launchers*
16 SA-10 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-10.htm) SAM launchers
48 ZSU-23-4V1 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/zsu-23-4.htm) SP AA guns

16 BRM (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/brm-1.htm) reconnaissance vehicles
16 BRDM-2RKh (http://www.sovietarmy.com/vehicles/brdm-2.html) NBC reconnaissance vehicles

120 MT-LB (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mt-lb.htm) utility vehicles**
48 ACRV M1974-1 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mt-lbu.htm) battery fire-control and command vehicles
12 ACRV M1974-2 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mt-lbu.htm) battalion fire-control and command vehicles
2 ACRV M1974-3 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/mt-lbu.htm) division mobile command vehicles

11 SNAR-10 (http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?ACE-72136) battlefield surveillance radars (fire-finder radars)
4 Tombstone engagement radars (SA-10)
4 Clam Shell (http://www.wonderland.org.nz/nw/clamshell_radar.htm) acquisition radars (SA-10)
4 Big Bird designation radars (SA-10)

10 MT-T (http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/traktors/mt-t.php?menu=history4.php) heavy tractors
10 MTU-72 (http://www.rbs.ru/exhibition/UralExpoArms/2000/MTU-72.htm) bridging tanks[/url]
8 PMM-2 (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng1_info.htm) tracked amphibious bridging systems
8 MDK-3 (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng2_info.htm) ditching units
8 IMR-2 (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng3_info.htm) obstacle-clearing units
8 BAT-2 (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng3_info.htm) obstacle-clearing vehicles
4 IRM (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng3_info.htm) engineer reconnaissance vehicles
8 MTK-2 (http://www.galope.com/mike/eng3_info.htm) armoured mice-clearers
8 BREM-1 (http://www.armscontrol.ru/atmtc/Arms_systems/Land/Tanks/T-72/brem-1.jpg) tank-recovery vehicles
16 Ural-375 electronic warfare units (jamming and ESM)


12 Mi-28N2 (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=336823) attack helicopters
12 Mi-18B (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=336823) general-purpose helicopters
12 Mi-17 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mi-17.htm) EW helicopters (jamming and ESM)

2,400 supply trucks in divisional tail (Ural-375, ZiL-131, GAZ-66)

Approximately 13,000 personnel

* These units do not carry long-range surveillance radars. If they are being used for stationary defence, the command vehicle of each platoon is datalinked to the nearest long-range surveillance radar system.


The Naval Infantry Division is little altered from the basic Motor-Rifle Division. It's main difference is that it is much less well-equipped with artillery. A Naval Infantry Division is intended mainly for making amphibious attacks and assaulting the enemy within the first 15 miles of an amphibious attack, which is a distance coverable by naval gunfire; thus it is considered that heavy artillery support is largely unnecessary, since the supporting guns of battleships and battlecruisers would seldom if ever be unavailable. The lower number of artillery pieces also reduces the quantity of equipment to be transported ashore, aiding rapid movement and deployment of the division.

Well the system I use, which is based on the US Military Organization, is that there's 9 to 10 Battalions in every division, the 9 or 10 battalions are put into 3 Brigades, 3 Battalions per Brigade if you're using 9.

Battalions usually have 700 to 1,500 personel. Making them into brigades would make the brigades have 2,100 to 4,500 personel. Three Brigades make a Division.

I personally though don't really strictly follow this rule. I tend to have more personel in my brigades, tallying the number to around 20,000 per division depending on it's purpose. Hope this helps.
Yeah, this is largely the Western European system.

3 Battalions to a Brigade, 3 Brigades to a Division, 3 Divisions to a Corps. 2-3 Corps to an Army

I usually assign approximately 3000 men to a Battalion, thereby 30000 to a Division (adding in 3000 support troups not in any individual Brigade). 90000 men to an Army is pretty good, though its usually more along the lines of 120-160 thousand. However, due to my massive defense spending (48 trillion dollars US *real founding date is Feb 6 2003*, every troops is a fortress, there just aren't as many of them.