NationStates Jolt Archive

To all nations so interested:

The Republic of Mac Cumhail has observed the growing number of totalitarian incidents and the increasing frequency of armed conflict with trepidation. We are a peaceful people, and a compassionate people. We have made provisions within our budget for the defence of political and military refugees fleeing such situations as we have mentioned. However, we are not a people of unlimited resources, and we cannot help everyone.

Therefore, in the interests of ensuring that refugees will have a place to go, the Republic of Mac Cumhail invites any nation interested (with the exclusion of communist or totalitarian organisations, per our cooperation in the Capitalist Accords), to attend a summit wherein we shall discuss the implementation of an alliance of refugee haven nations.

We shall submit the proposals we have so far drafted at such time as the summit convenes, (Noon EST, Saturday, September 25 RL time), to be debated and refined for the purposes of this alliance.

The summit will be held on our soil, in the capital city of Tintagel.

We look forward to meeting many new friends through this proposal.

With regards,
Prime Minister Sean Dempsey
~Signatures of the Parliament~

We would be interested in sending a delegate to Tintagel for this conference. Your message echoes many of the concerns that we Sarzonians have with regard to recent events.

Sadie Benson-Hopkins
Assistant to the Senior Vice President for External Affairs
Incorporated States of Sarzonia

[OOC: Don't worry about the Father Knows Best designation. I'm usually an Inoffensive Centrist Democracy and I'm trying to get that back. It JUST changed early this morning and it wasn't fun to wake up to that!]

To the Nation of Mac Cumhail,

The Arab Republic of Al-Sabir, currently harbouring several hundreds of political refugees, is widely reknown as a safe haven for any military or political dissidents not welcome in their own home countries. Therefore I feel that it is required for our nation to have a delegation attending this summit, which could affect the lives of many people who are prosecuted for their political views.

Yours Sincerely,

Farid Jamzad
Minister of Foreign Affairs
The Arab Republic of Al-Sabir

[ooc: cool, very much understood ^^]

We would be delighted to meet the delegates from the Incorporated States of Sarzonia and the Arab Republic of Al-Sabir.

In addition, we wish to request that all nations who expect to attend please inform us of several things:

1) The party expected to attend the conference.
2) Your intended means of travel (either to the Culloden International Airport or to the Tintagel Seaports).

Two bodyguards are permitted per delegate. They may register firearms at the point of arrival, at which time they shall be issued a temporary permit for carry within our borders. Weapons will not be permitted within the conference building itself, however; security will be provided by elements of the Republican Black Watch, our nation's anti-terrorist/counterinsurgency specialists. We will personally garuntee the safety of any delegates, barring an unforseen emergency.

Sincerely

Prime Minister Sean Dempsey

The reigon of Deep thought would be pleased to come and take part in this discussion. We will arrive by ship into your docks two days before the tallks. Our party wonders as we are a reigon and so made up of many countries that we bring two body gaurds per country in our reigon who have agreed to come (all threee of us) . We wil be represented by President Vindi Deeper thought of Vindalloo_Curry and the leaders of Vindalopia and Vindina as well as there foriegn ministers or equvilents.
Yours Vindi Deeper thought.

[ooc: for the purposes of simplicity, I would prefer that you only have a delegation from each player, with puppet nations just acting as advisors. This makes it relatively fair to people with just the one nation :)]

[ooc: cool, very much understood ^^]

[And now I'm back to Inoffensive Centrist Democracy. Whew!]

OOC: Conference will begin three RL hours from this post.

The Commonwealth of Cisalpia agrees wholeheartedly with your proposal, and will be sending a delegation from our Parliament. The three delegates will arrive shortly before the conference via Culloden International Airport.

President Konrad March
The Commonwealth of Cisalpia

ooc: apologize for the lack of beginning on time and all that noise...real life got in the way. hoping to start tommorow!.

IC: The Republic accepts your reservations and anticipates your arrival, President March.

The free people of The Republic of Eutrusca most gratefully accept your invitation to attend this conference.

Although we are a relatively small Nation, our defense forces are second to none, and every Eutruscan citizen is required to spend a minimum of 3 years in either the armed forces or in some sort of government service before being eligible to vote.

Please keep us informed as to the arrangements for this conference and we will make every effort to attend!

Your future conference attendee,

Andros Pondera
First Defender
The New Eutruscan Republic

We appreciate the attendance of the people of Etrusca. Do let us know if you intend to arrive by ship at the port of Tintagel, or by way of airline through Culloden International Airport.

OOC: there are to many alliances in this game, but whatever.

OOC: If your post was "whatever" or you disagreed with the nature of the thread, why did you make an irrelevant, unsupported post therein? We're roleplaying a niche interest that has no impact whatsoever on your nation, gameplay, or enjoyment of the game, and you have the option of ignoring any thread here if you so desire. Please refrain from making extraneous comments that serve no purpose other than to belittle people who are just trying to enjoy themselves with a bit of non-godmode, sensible, pseudorealistic gameplay.

OOC: If your post was "whatever" or you disagreed with the nature of the thread, why did you make an irrelevant, unsupported post therein? We're roleplaying a niche interest that has no impact whatsoever on your nation, gameplay, or enjoyment of the game, and you have the option of ignoring any thread here if you so desire. Please refrain from making extraneous comments that serve no purpose other than to belittle people who are just trying to enjoy themselves with a bit of non-godmode, sensible, pseudorealistic gameplay.

Ah, but i wasn't attempteting to belittle anybody, disagree with or alliance or anything, I just made an OOC comment that was ended in 'whatever' which was meant as a way of saying you can do what ever you want, so therefore i wasn't going against you or your alliance, simply stating an ooc opinion

OOC:Ok Vindalloo_curry will come as it's my main nation.

Dawn rose over Tintagel, the captial of Mac Cumhail. The delegates of the varying nations had assembled over the days prior, taking up residences in the capital's most prestigious international hotel, the Victoria Rose.

In that cold dawning morning, the first official day of winter in Mac Cumhail, curiously enough, black limozines carried the delegates to the Third House, the empty house of the parliament which was reserved for conducting affairs with foreign dignitaries. As the delegates were ushered in, Prime Minister Dempsey stood at the head of the room, on an upraised dais overlooking the gracefully sloping auditorium. On his left stood the heads of the Parliament Senate and the Parliament Commons, while on his right waited the Marshall of the Armies and the Minister of Foreign affairs.

Smiling affably, Prime Minister Dempsey gestured to the seats arranged, ampitheatre style, before the dais. "Please, do be seated, honored guests. I welcome you to the Republic of Mac Cumhail, and to the talks. Let us pray that our efforts here are productive, and swift."

OOC: take it away, lads

The delegate from the Commonwealth of Cisalpia stood and addressed the gathered dignitaries.

"Good delegates, representatives, emissaries, allow me to introduce myself. I am Representative Vernon Messersmith of the Commonwealth of Cisalpia. I would like to take this opportunity to express the general graditute of our nation towards those present.
"Long has Cisalpia realized that war is indeed the scourge of international affairs, and that the citizens involved do not necessarily need to be involved. The people of Cisalpia enjoy a large degree of liberty and freedom from conflict, and wish others to enjoy the same. It has only been recently that Cisalpia has obtained the ability to establish a presence in the international community, and we want that first impression to be a good one. Thus, we have resolved to assist those oppressed, and we believe that this organisation has the potential to do just that.
"The Commonwealth of Cisalpia hearby resolves to render what it can to speed the creation of this alliance."

I wish you wouldnt discriminate against Communist nations. CL has always had pretty much a open border policy and wishes to continue to have one.

To the government of Communist Louisiana:

We understand your concerns, and appreciate your interest. However, we feel that your system of government, eg Communism, is a violation of what we hold to be a key and essential human right, the right of self-determiniation within logical reason. According to our internal laws, and our compliance with the Capitalist Accords, we cannot maintain diplomatic relations with you.

We thank you for your concern.
Sincerely
Prime Minister Sean Dempsey

*bump*

*bump*

Benson-Hopkins was understandably nervous. This was the first time that she was being sent on a diplomatic mission of any kind. Since she was the Assistant to the Senior Vice President for External Affairs for the Incorporated States of Sarzonia, she wasn't used to being the designated point woman for the country.

But with Senior Vice President for External Affairs Mark Lorber and some of his top deputies all having other committments, she was tapped to go.

The plane took off from the Woodstock International Jetport and Benson-Hopkins realized that she had not provided the information the conference organizers asked for.

"Great, this will really make us look good," she said sarcastically to the aide who was travelling with her. "Contact them and let them know you and I are the delegation from Sarzonia and let them know we're landing in Culloden International Airport."

"Yes, ma'am," the aide said. He pulled out his cell phone and informed the organizers of their intent. When the call finished, he sheepishly walked back toward Benson-Hopkins.

"Done," he said as he took his seat. She didn't say anything, but her piercing scowl spoke volumes. She was not pleased, to say the least.

As the plane approached the airport, the pilot signalled, "control tower, this is Sarzonia 23, request permission to land. Over."

"Sarzonia 23 this is control tower. Permission granted. Welcome to Mac Cumhail. Over."

So this is what it's like to be considered a diplomat, Benson-Hopkins thought.

The Kingdom of New Shiron requests permission to attend the conference you are hosting. Lord Alec Harrington, the Minister of State for the Kingdom is willing to come in person and he will be representing Her Majesty Queen Gabrielle I. In addition, Harrington is also representing the Kingdom of Upper Big Sur and both of these nations have formed an alliance known as the Malibu Treaty Alliance (MTA for short).

Both nations are progressive nations with a good civil rights record and would be honored to discuss an alliance with your nations.

Sincerely,

Prince Gavin O'Connor, Chief of Staff to Her Majesty

Gwlacmai O'Shay, Prime Minister of Yr Widdfa and brother of the Grand Duke, slipped into the conference late. He cursed his secretary for forgetting. He took a seat near the back so as not to disrupt the speakers. His bodyguards sat down on either side of him. Thoughts began to form in his head as he listened. A safe haven. Land could be parceled off in the region for refugees. It wasn't a bad idea. He emailed his brother with the idea, recomending it be brought up to the ACS.

To Prince O'Connor;

We would be most pleased if you could join our treaty negotiations. We have sent you a package including the appropriate clearances to use for your flight or voyage in, and the information on escorts, consel, etc. We look forward to your presence at the talks.

Sincerely
Sean Dempsey, Prime Minister, Republic of Mac Cumhail

The Armed Republic of Tdas Would like to send an envoy to the sumit.

Although we are fairly new in the world stage we support the capitalist ideals 100%

"Ladies and Gentlemen, while we await the arrival of the other guests who signified interest in our talks, I would like to hear your impressions on the status of refugees throughout the world. Do let me know if you have come to this meeting out of similar concerns to mine, or merely out of amusement at a still-developing nation's overconfidence in itself."

The Prime Minister smiled at that, eyes glittering in poorly concealed amusement at the situation.

"Please, I do value your opinions, and would like to know what your opinions on this matter are."

Prince Gavin sipped a drink while he sat in a plush chair aboard an RANG Gulfstream III as flew across the ocean on his way to the conference...

he had much to think about. Originallythis conference had been about pure altruism. But now things were different, now New Shiron had refugees to deal with from the shattered nation of Upper Big Sur. Hundreds of thousands forced to flee from the radioactive wreckage of their capital after a ugly civil war gone catastrophical wrong.

Now his nation was was forced to rule what was now a de facto colony, and would have to learn by doing the whole nation building job.

"What to do with all this refugees" he muttered to himself.

Maybe this conference would give him some ideas to present to his niece, her majesty the Queen. She would need something to take to parliament, which always hated to spend money.

His 2 Royal Guard bodyguards slept in the back of the plane. For now, their job was done, at least until they got to the conference. Then they would have to wait around and hope the locals ran a proper security setup.

Farid, trying to balance a pen right up on his closed notebook, as he was bored as hell, was disturbed when the aircraft rocked again violently due to some turbulence.

The problem was that the Humanitarian Aid Ministry was always to get all the money that wasn't spend yet when all other Ministries had their share, nothing. For this summit, however, some exceptions were made and after scrapping every third trafficlight in Kusair, the government had ensured that the delegate being send off to the conference didn't have to hitchhike the entire distance, as what had happened the last time such a conference had been attended by Al-Sabirians. As official transport they had retrieved an ancient Boeing 707 from desert storage, gave it two deathrow felons as pilots and had put Minister of Foreign Affairs, Farid Jamzad, the President's arch enemy after Farid's recent fight with the Minister of Defense, on the plane to attend the conference.

"Can I get you anything, Sir?"

Farid, gazing outside, looked up and saw a plump steward to his side. He stretched out and yawned.

"Get me a soda, and ask the pilot when we're supposed to land,"

Suddenly the aircraft took a short nosedive. The fat steward thumbled down onto Farid, who got squeezed thin between his leather aircraft seat and the steward. Luckily for him, the aircraft recovered and the steward got up, mumbling an apology and sprinting for the crew's cabin compartments.

Farid sighed, this was third time this flight the aircraft's engines had just shut off. He'd lucky to be arrive alive at the conference.

ooc: Guess I jumped the gun posting that people had arrived in the main conference room.

ooc: Guess I jumped the gun posting that people had arrived in the main conference room.

[OOC: Some folks don't like to RP leaving their capitals, flying on a plane, arriving, etc. Some just like to get down to the nitty gritty. That's not a problem.]

Greetings from Xeraph!

Many apologies for missing this most important conference. I am interested in finding out the results of the discussion, and how Xeraph cam be of service to nations needing help, in whatever form.

rrspectfully,

Alaric, King of Xeraph

You say these things about my government. Look at my Civil Right and compair them to yours. We are not Stalinist we are COMMUNIST. Their is a difference and we do see this as being offensive to us.

Bobby Jindal
Premier of the Communist Party of CL
New Orleans, Louisiana, CL

Greetings from The President of Tylinoa,


My country extends there hand to help your nation. We shall like to become an alliance with you nation sir Mac Cumhail. We also sincerly apologize for missing the conference, but are still interested in the alliance proposal.




Tyler Turner
President of the Federation of Tylinoa

To Mr. Jindal;

This is not a negotiation of respective Civil Rights matters. This is a statement of belief and policy from our country. You adhere to Communist principles, whereas we are a capitalist nation. Until such time as you submit substantial proof that you allow free and self-determined enterprise within your nation, we will have no diplomatic relations with it. Withdraw from this discussion and continue your petition elsewhere, as it is not the concern of this summit.

Good Day

OOC: To all others...the conference is still going on. If you plan to attend, do hop in and give a comment.

A dark figure appears from the shadows sipping gin.

Well ol boys if we are going to be really allied I say we get onto the important issues like freetrade among the allience.

Prince Gavin O'Connor, although obviously tired, is in his early forties, but looks a bit younger.

"My Queen and Parliament has sent me here to address the issue of refugees. We believe that refugees, like all people, have inalienable rights to safety, food, freedom and the pursuit of prosperity.

In addition, most refugees are extremely tough people, survivor types in many cases, because in most situations, the weak have died trying to get to their destinations.

Therefore, they are valuable people, and worth taking in whenever possible, as they will contribute greatly to any society that they emigrate to. Their children even more so.

Of course basic economics does come into play, and no nation can absorp all refugees from everywhere. But I urge us all to do what we can.

In my country, we are currently dealing with a serious refugee situation created by a catastrophic civil war in the neighboring country of Upper Big Sur. Nearly 6 million dead, another million suffering from the effects of radiation or disease, out of population fo 30 million. In addition, another million have been forced to move to refugee camps to escape contiminated areas.

Therefore, we, and our associate, New Cynthia, ask for help. Although we can feed them all, and are currently occupying that nation to ensure peace and security are restored, we have need of assistance. Our taxpayers can only afford so much after all. Therefore, we ask for assistance in the form of medical supplies, radiation clean up gear, and food stuffs, particularly grain and seed.

We of course intend to be there for you should you ever find yourselves facing a similar burden."

With that, the Prince takes his seat after finishing his opening statement

ooc
I (this player) control all three of the countries named (intend to let Upper Big Sur lapse though, but this seemed like a more interesting story line)

Listen ol boys, I'd really love to help out with your piddling poor but I dare say dont have the room. We have a system of dealing with illegals out our way, we pick em up before they meet our migration zone and shove them off onto some poor nation that we give aid to.

Its worked a treat so far.

Prime Minister Dempsey narrowed his eyes at the commentary from the Tdas representative.

"You clearly did not read the information packet sent to anyone who expressed interest in this gathering. We are not here to discuss trade, free or otherwise, nor are we discussing "illegals," by which I can assume you mean immigrants. We are here to discuss the possibility of forming an alliance of nations to establish safe havens for legitimate refugees fleeing particular situations. Given that no issue you have raised so far sits on our agenda, I should like to suggest that you either sit down until you have something to contribute, or leave our company. If you continue in discussing matters apart from the intended topic of this summit, you will be escorted to your accomodations until a flight to your home nation is arranged. Am I clear?"

Diplomatic Message to Mac Cumhail

As Vastiva has already exchanged embassies with Mac Cumhail, and has at current two very large and mostly unoccupied colonies, we will gladly appoint Mac Cumhail as our proxy in these deliberations until such time as a delegate can be appointed to arrive if needs be done. However, we believe at this time that Mac Cumhail's governance is more then adequate.

Vastiva will review any agreements before signatory.

Go in Peace,

Namaste,
Raahmid Javani
Grand Vizier,
Humble Servant of His Magnificence, the Sultan of Vastiva

*bump*

OOC: posting proposal itself shortly

"Ladies and Gentlemen, here is the rough outline of the treaty we have proposed. We know it is far from complete, and we would like everyone's assistance in refining the document to an agreeable status."

With that, the Prime Minister gestured to the folders sitting in front of everyone on the desk. "Please, open your folders and take a look."

International Safe Haven Treaty of Alliance and Refuge (ISHTAR)

Acknowledging the unstable political climate of the world, accepting the realities of political differences, and committed to the preservation of human life wherever possible;

The signatories to this treaty hereby resolve to create an alliance of haven nations dedicated to the defence and shelter of legitimate refugees for the duration of the situation which compels them to seek asylum within a haven nation.

In the interests of executing the ideals of this alliance, the signatory nations to this treaty hereby resolve:

1) To provide a haven to any legitimate refugees, which meet the following qualifications:
a. Fleeing religious, ethical, political, or racial persecution by the government or controlling group within their home nation.
b. In danger of loss of life or reasonable liberty because of said persecution.
c. Fleeing a widespread disaster within their home nation which threatens the life and wellbeing of the people as a whole.
2) To establish a multi-national fleet dedicated to the transport of identified and accepted refugees from threatened domains to their assigned haven.
3) To establish a council of haven nations to serve as a review board for alliance decision making.

Benson-Hopkins read through the treaty carefully. The terms looked fairly amenable to Sarzonia and it looked like the kind of treaty that could sail through Parliament. However, she knew President Sarzo would get in her grill if she didn't ask one question, so she rose up to the full extent of her 5'4" frame.

"I believe the terms of this treaty are acceptable," Benson-Hopkins began. "But one area of concern for Sarzonia is the treatment of citizens who are persecuted because of their sexual orientation. Sarzonia has a long history of supporting the rights of its homosexual citizens and our Parliament would likely consider this treaty to be vague in its explanations of which citizens fall under the protected categories.

"Sarzonia very nearly went to war with a country that intended to commit genocide against its homosexual population and any foreign homosexuals. The threat of war caused the country in question to rescind its policies, but Sarzonia values the rights of all of its citizens. We would appreciate an explicit answer to our query before I submit this treaty to the House of Delegates for its consideration."

Benson-Hopkins remained standing expectantly while she awaited an answer.

Encrypted Message to Mac Cumhail

Due to some political disturbance currently plaguing my nation, as well as my new assignment as Vice President, I'm forced to return home. An official replacement, the newly inaugurated Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hamid Bin-Yussuf, is currently being transported to the summit and should arrive within minutes.

Regards,

Farid Jamzad
Vice President
The Arab Republic of Al-Sabir

The Summit

Nearly tripping over his own feet, Hamid sprinted into the oval conference hall. As he burst in, most attendants looked annoyed, so he mumbled an apology. He took a seat, grabbed the folder and gave it a quick glance. Listening to Ben-Hopkins, he got up, sipped some water and cleared his throat.

"Uhmm, I concur with the Sarzonian delegate, in my opinion these legitimite refugees should also include people fleeing from persecution by their government because of their sexual orientation,"

Natalya Orlapov would like to come and forge an alliance from the Avalon Countys main nation Serafima. You do know of our tradition of alliances being forged between the sheets instead of on paper.

Please send us your reply, if a suitable male officer is available and when can she arrive?

Morgaine La Tissier
:fluffle:

Lord Harrington sat at his chair, listening to the responses and proposals. After a while, he decided he needed to add something to the debate.

"While I understand the concerns of those worried about the treatment of people who are homosexual, don't forget, there are those who flee because their culture practices archaic and cruel rituals such as female circumcision.

I think the clause stating that those fleeing persecution because of ethical reasons should be enough to cover them as well as homosexuals. But if there is disagreement, I am willing to accept refugees being defined to include those fleeing from persecution because they are homosexual if those who flee from female circumcision and those fleeing because of excessive or arbitrary laws determining how many children they can have are included.

Just be aware, this support of homosexuals may be a problem for some countries who have strong religious factions in their government who might otherwise support us.

I am also willing to support the creation of a fleet, as long as such ships are non military style ships and are unarmed, as well as any aircraft purchased"

With that Lord Harrington sat down to see how things would go from there.

"We of course understand your concerns regarding the treatment of individuals as regards their sexual habits. In this case, that would likely come under the auspices of political persecution (such as a direct policy instituted by the government). It would also fall under the (admittedly poorly defined) clause of Ethical persecution, if a controlling body outside the government began to systematically repress peoples' rights in a fashion beyond the government's ability to deal with. Regardless, if there is significant evidence available, then people who are under sexually-oriented persecution will have the option to petition any ISHTAR nation for sanctuary.

As to the fleet, that will indeed be a very sticky point with this entire agreement. Realistically, there is no way military forces can be deployed into national waters without being considered an act of war. However, if we do not have military power backing the fleet, we will likely just be rebuffed at the gate, and thereby rescue no-one.

A conundrum no? I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter."

The Prime minister paused, looking once again round the table.

Lord Harrington rose again to answer regarding the fleet question.

"I agree that we do run the risk of our rescue ships being rebuffed. On the other hand, the International Red Cross is frequently rebuffed as well. But enlightened self interest more often gets them in as the Red Cross is viewed as a force for humantarianism, and as such, generally harmless. So should our fleet be.

And if neccessary, our Allied countries do have a steel fist to go with the outstretched hand of assistance."

*bump*

**bbuummpp**

O'Shay rose at last. "I think I ought to point out one possible problem. Many who could claim refuge under idealogical persecution could be dangerous men, terrorist cells who are being hunted down could claim that they are being persecuted for their ideals. Then we could have terror cells rising in our own nations and regions. So also, a mass influx of communists into a capitalist nation or vice versa for that matter could destabilize that nation. I think there should be a way of screening these people."

"A valid point. A related matter is the discussion of what role these citizens will play in the society they are granted refuge in. It is obviously unfair to ask that haven nations establish citizenship for these refugees, so in addition to establishing a board of screening and review for those entering our nation, we must establish what rights, responsibilities, and priviliges they will enjoy within our borders.

Do any other delegates have comments to help us resolve these matters?"

Representative Vernon Messersmith of the Commonwealth of Cisalpia stood and addressed the gathering.

"We of the Commonwealth realize that other nations do not extend as many rights to their citizens. We do not always approve or condone this, but we respect it. However, we believe that the signatory nations should at the minimum extend the rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness pursuant to their own respective traditions. We recommend that each nation encourage their refugees to pursue citizenship.
"We would also like to point out that the third part of the proposal clearly states that a board will be created for decision making. Certainly more concrete definitions may be decided up on later, such as how to screen for terrorists.
"On a vaguely related note, we believe the signatory nations should take reasonable effort to prevent any retaliatory action from the oppressor nation. This should be done in concert with all signatories."

Lord Harrington listened to the assembly, musing over ideas..

"I suggest this... we seem to agree on what a refugee basically is, that we should band together to not only provide haven, but to provide safety at least in some form to them, and it would seem that a solid political and economic alliance, and a military one, is needed to accomplish our goals.

Therefore, perhaps we should stick to that for the moment, with more to come?"

"Indeed, simplicity can be a virtue, Lord Harrington. However, we must make sure not to paint with too broad a stroke, lest someone withdraw from the alliance over a specific they never agreed to. The treaty must be robust enough to stand up to analysis, after all."

Benson-Hopkins considered the latest comments with regard to national traditions and the rights to be granted to refugees. She pondered for a moment what she should say and finally spoke up.

"It is Sarzonian tradition to offer asylum to those who ask. However, it is also our custom to be very careful about those to whom we offer citizenship. We conduct a thorough background check into everyone from countries we have limited to no contact with. We conduct extensive interviews as our relations with a given country allow before we make our determination about offering citizenship.

"Once someone is offered citizenship, they must pass a rigourous citizenship test and prove proficiency in English. They must also swear allegiance to the Sarzonian flag and they must also contribute to their new communities. Once they have proven all of those within a five year waiting period, they are offered full citizenship with all the priviledges and responsibilities that apply.

"Our system is not perfect, but our country is very safe. So far," she said, tapping the wooden table with the knuckles on her right hand.

"We would hope that other countries have an enlightened system with respect to offering citizenship to refugees who come to their shores."

"Indeed, that is a noble effort. The fact is, this treaty is not intended to regulate any internal functions of the haven nations beyond what is neccessary to provide political refuge for these refugees. That will include standards of accomodation and such things. Every nation will have to determine how and when it offers citizenship individually, as that is beyond the scope and spirit of this document."

The Prime Minister smiled...the meeting was going splendidly, with no serious arguments beyond some initial, minor confusion.

*bump^3*

re-bump

check it out, it's bump like.

I wanna join, but i dont know if im communist or capitilist, all i know is that my econmy is developing or sumething like that...i dont know anything about this game...please help me...


Ezra Cahn

OOC: Ezra, the best advice I can give you is to read the stickies at the tops of all the forums (heree and the Nation States board), and get a feel for what goes on in the game.

If you like, you can give me your AIM screen name, and I can try to help you when I'm on. :)

*bump, posting revised treaty tommorow*

Yawning from fatigue, a rather tired looking Lord Harrington ended the session with the a final comment. "New Shiron looks forward to your latest proposals"

Bowing politely to all assembled, the diplomat excused himself for the evening

To the Prime Ministr of Mac Cumhail
From Lord Harrington, Minister of State, Empire of New Shiron

Urgent affairs of state are forcing me to cut short my stay, however, I am leaving my able deputy, Sir Patrick O'Neal behind to represent the Empire at this conference. He has full negotiating authority in this matter and is ranked as a Special Ambassador in the Ministry.

To Lord Harrington:
I understand, and wish you the best of luck.

Back at the Conference:

Well, I trust we all had an excellent rest. Let us begin by discussing the navy the treaty reccomends, shall we?

Benson-Hopkins pondered the navy question. It was not her area of expertise, but she figured a collaborative approach to protecting the convoys was a good idea.

"Why don't we use a combined naval force with commanders rotating among the members of this alliance," she asked. "The naval force would simply be whatever each country is able to commit. It doesn't have to be a large part of your navy, but something to show that we will protect the lives of the people we are trying to save, along with our own.

"I believe our Navy Chief, Kathy Bunhall, would be receptive to discussing naval matters with you. The Sarzonian navy is pretty well-respected."

Benson Hopkins sat down, pondering the events in the conference. So far, her debut as a diplomat was going well.

Sir Patrick O'Neal, a distinguished looking man in his late 50s, prompted at this point

"I like the suggestion of a combined force, and I would recommend that instead of an ad hoc force to be created as needed, that a relatively small permanent force under a rotating command be created to consist primarily of converted passenger liners with escorts such as frigates and destroyers and maybe a light carrier or two. At most, maybe 5 or 6 transports which would be enough to carry about 50,000 people in one lift, a similiar number of escorts and a light carrier to provide a command vessel and to provide air support. Essentially each of us would commit a destroyer or frigate, plus a converted passenger liner or hospital ship to the force from our own navies and whichever nation had the command that year would also commit a light carrier and a commander.

If heavier forces were needed, then we would be looking at a full scale war with someone in all likelihood, and that would require a much larger commitment both politically and militarily."

OOC what I am suggesting is something similiar to the NATO Standing Naval Forces Atlantic, which is still around believe it or not, and it is essentially an escort group consisting of destroyers and frigates from the various NATO nations under rotating command and available for any NATO urgent deployment (it usually had about 5 - 9 ships, depending on the era)

Big enough for a Rear Admiral or Commodore to command, but not the same political or diplomatic statement that a US Navy Carrier Battle Group would make (for good or bad depending on the situation)

He went on to add another point "But don't forget airlift, perhaps a similar permanent force of military transport aircraft is needed too. It could fly in emergency relief supplies, ferry out urgent medical cases and orphans, and reach interior countries and regions. For that I recommend that each nation commit a squadron of military transports which would be formed into a permanent wing under rotating command.

Of course, ships and aircraft commited to this mission would be rotated on an annual basis, not permanently assigned to these forces."

O'Shay furrowed his brow slightly, "Now, as I understand it, this navy's purpose is only the transport of refugees to whichever nation we have decided to send them to. Obviously we would need an esscort of some sort, but it need not be a force capable of full scale naval battles. I rather like New Shiron's suggested force. However, I am somewhat nervous about the implication that we might ever need a heavy force or a full scale war. We are not forming an alliance with the intention to go to war here. So I must ask, what are you intentions?"

Representative Vernon Messersmith again stood.

"I have been informed by our Secretary of the Navy that our forces can spare two T-AKR 296 Gordon-class large medium-speed roll-on/roll-off transports and a DDG-51 Arleigh Burke-class AEGIS destroyer.
"We hope that these vessels will be instrumental in the execution of ISHTAR's goals."

Benson-Hopkins stood up again and pondered the direction the discussion was heading into. She finally decided to speak.

"I don't believe my government would endorse a heavy force of any kind," she said. "However, there are rogue nations out there that would attack any ship under a flag of truce. Our force would not be intended to provoke anyone, but it would be there to deter a would be foe from attacking.

"We want and love peace as much as anyone. But the best way to ensure peace is to discourage war by a show of strength."

Prime Minister Dempsey sat listening to the exchanges, making notes in the notebook in front of him as the assembled delegates continued their discussions. He then gestured for Commodore Kestrel Young, the naval advisor he had tapped for his staff during this meeting, sto stand.

The young officer nodded, standing up at her seat. "Ladies, gentlemen, I am Commodore Young, acting commander of the Mac Cumhail Navy. Delegates, the Republic of Mac Cumhail understands your concerns, and let me assure you that we are commited to the respectful observance of the sovereignty of any nation we come into contact with. Prime Minister Dempsey has asked me to outline some basic operational procedures for the ISHTAR Coalition fleet, and here is what I propose."

Turning on an overhead projector, she began sketching out a rough, simple Table of Organisation and Equipment for everyone to observe.

"It is really quite a simple solution; the Coalition Fleet itself will consist of two contingents, the Relief fleet and the Escort fleet. The Coalition fleet will observe a fifty kilometer "sovereignty zone" as respects a nation's territorial waters. No portion of the Coalition Fleet will enter a nation's territorial waters without the permission of the government in question. If permission is granted, the Relief fleet will enter territorial waters unescorted to conduct relief missions, remaining in close communication with the Escort fleet. If attacked, the relief fleet will attempt to withdraw. Should withdrawl be impractical, the Escort fleet will have the authority to conduct what maneuvers are neccessary, up to and including lethal force, to safely extricate the Relief fleet from the situation. Any attack on either fleet would, of course, be considered an act of war on the alliance."

She paused, setting down the pen and turning to address the delegates directly once more. "This raises a particular issue. Some nations have difficulties with maritime criminals such as pirates and smugglers. While we are fairly confident that no such known forces could mount a takeover of any part of the Relief fleet, it pays to be cautious. We will therefore include in the terms of Refuge a proviso that, should any force outside the immediate participants of the matter attack the Relief fleet, we will have authority to dispatch what air support is needed to eliminate the perpetrators in question."

Nodding once as she concludes her speech, the young officer sits down next to the Prime Minister once again.

"Are there any comments or questions pertaining to the Commodore's presentation, Delegates?" Minister Dempsey asked.

Representative Vernon Messersmith looked up from the notes in front of him.

"Commodore Young," he said to the youthful officer. "You said that no portion of the Coalition Force would enter a nation's waters without approval of its government. I believe that raises a conflict with the ISHTAR proposal. One of the major points of the proposal was to..."

Messersmith rifled through his notes, walked over to the overhead and placed a copy of the proposal on the glass. He pointed to the projection and quoted:

"...provide safe haven to any legitimate refugees, which meet the following qualifications:
a. Fleeing religious, ethical, political, or racial persecution by the government or controlling group within their home nation.
b. In danger of loss of life or reasonable liberty because of said persecution.

"I would believe that we would have to enter national waters to conduct operations without the consent of its government. Exactly how to do this without starting a war is beyond the scope of my mission."

Sir Patrick chooses to speak now..

"I believe our purpose to provide haven, but actively entering another country with military forces is an act of war. Are you prepared to declare war to rescue refugees? Wouldn't that create more eventually?

My suggestion for armed escort is for the simple purpose of protecting our ships in International Waters, especially areas like the Straits of Malacca, where pirates are a significant problem and actually hijack merchant ships and slaughter their crews for not only robbery, but also to steal the ship and cargo. We must certainly guard against such situations. But this escort would also provide escort in situations where there is a failed state. I am thinking of situations like Somalia for example. Essentially I am proposing an escort group, which most nations would tend to accept as just that. Heavier forces would be too provicative and defeat the purpose I suspect.

If we as an alliance chose to take a more active role in a given situation, then I think the Alliance members would want to discuss that particular situation before committing us to war.

But I also suggested an Alliance combined airlift wing for situations that allow or require it, such as the situation in central Africa a few years ago when two tribes were slaughtering one another and many were attempting to flee.

Of course, in that situation, some ground troops may also be required and maybe that also should be considered. I am talking about troops to guard our transports on the ground, but also engineers to assist in reparing facilities for our use and to build camps, medical personnel, and other support troops along those lines. Is anyone willing to consider that?

Basically an Alliance response brigade consisting of small company or battalion sized contigents from all of us, once again under a unified command."

O'Shay nodded, "Yr Widdfa has for some time been perfecting our airborn infantry as well as our airmobile wing. We would be willing to set up a base in our province of Gwenedd for the training of such a light response team for airlift operations. This would be almost essential since we have no reason to hope that all conflicts would arrise within reach of a coast."
"As for entering national waters, I don't know where one draws the line between a rescue mission and invading national sovereignty. But I believe that any such operation would have to be done with a swiftness that naval operation would no allow, though perhaps a wing of carrier based transport helicopters would work. Our T-1 could easily be transported in numbers on a medium sized carrier. Further, we would be willing to attatch a regiment of special forces to this unit for light infantry support. Such support I think would be mainly for maintaining an LZ during the operations. Anything more and we once again get into the issue of just how far we can go."

The Commodore raised her voice again.

"The problem with deploying military forces of any sort into territory without permission, gentlemen, is that then becomes an effective declaration of war. The rescue forces would then be legitimate targets for the military of that nation, and there is no real way we could survive a counterattack by an entrenched enemy on his home soil without deploying heavy combat assets on the Divisional scale. As was mentioned earlier, even the Red Cross is often rebuffed from nations they want to help. They don't push their point, and I don't believe it would be effective for us to make a military statement in situations like these, because we would effectively be throwing away the lives of our rescue forces."

Benson-Hopkins stood up again and spoke up.

"We believe that a combined naval force would be expected to remain in international waters without the expressed permission of the government to send armed warships into a country's soverign waters. In the event the peaceful ships we would be escorting are attacked, we can still be within range of the ships to protect them from such an attack. It would be common sense to escort your unarmed vessels into a war zone, would it not?

"During the escalation to war with CorpSac, the Sarzonian naval forces notified the Praetonian government of our intent to send ships to help their defense of their homelands. In that case, we received explicit permission to traverse Praetonian waters since we were going to their aid. Such a maneuver should be expected of us as well. If military forces do not breach international boundaries into soverign territories, that should not be viewed as a tacit declaration of war."

Minister Dempsey nodded.

"Indeed. While I am sure that the image of the noble knight riding in to save the oppressed is indeed appealing, we must face facts that ours is an alliance of diplomacy. It would be counterproductive to our aims to simply force our way onto peoples' shores militarily. I must again affirm that the fleet not be able to conduct operations without the permission of the parent government. Unless, of course, the assembled delegates wish to include a proviso for initiating combat in particular circumstances...?"

*bump'd*

Benson-Hopkins bit her lip for a moment, then spoke again.

"I believe you may have misconstrued the intent behind the escort force," she said. "It would not be used to force our way into opposing territory; rather, it would be there solely to protect the unarmed ships from an attack. The armed vessels would remain in international waters and would not force their way into another nation's soverign waters.

"Believe me, I believe in respecting another nation's soverignty as much as anyone. We would not do anything to threaten that, but we do need to be ready in a world of increasing terrorism and the ever-present possibility that our peaceful ships could be attacked. Some countries do not have respect for rules of engagement such as the Woodstock Convention."

[OOC: The Woodstock Convention is basically the Geneva Convention, but it solely applies to Sarzonia and it's solely Sarzonian military and politicos who put it together.]

Messersmith stood up to address the gathering.
"The obvious proviso to add is that any unwarranted attack on the fleet is a declaration of war on all member nations. Unwarranted attack I would think is any attack in international waters, or any attack after permission has been granted to the fleet.
"However since this is indeed to be an alliance of diplomacy and humanitarianism, I believe that this document can not be used to declare war as the aggressor."

[Thank you, I agree. Astalavista :mp5:
Primeminister of Abandarty

Minister Dempsey laughed gently.

"Indeed, we do understand the purpose of the escort force, and we advocate its inclusion. However' we're arguing that the relief fleet would not be permitted into national waters without assurances of safety from the military powers in control of the region in question."

*bumping*

*bumpagain*

One of the shadows detached itself from a wall, it was always there, but noone had noticed it, the vision has simply slipped around it as if it were some trick.It stepped into the light reavealing a tall cloaked figure.
'Who the hell are you?' One of the commanders spoke.
'Do not worry security, I am merely here to make a suggestion in our nations name. The tech priests of the commonwealth will always be here in matters of humanitarianism.'The figure said.
'I have listened to your arguments, and it seems to me the answer is part of the problem. The problem is if you move an armed force uninvited into enemy territory, you will be threatening war. But if you provide a force large enough, a force of many times the nation in questions armed force, and send a message of diplomacy to the government clearly indicating the armed forces are for protection against pirates, then the government will-well-get the message. He will not declare war on you when you have a force that could crush his like a bug on his doorstep.'

OOC: Umm...right. No offence, but:

My nation is significantly larger than yours, SD, with a much larger economy, both overall and in terms of military capacity. There is effectively no way you'd have the resources to train or equip any individuals to get past the security forces that my nation would have allocated to such a conference. Please roleplay a request to join the conference as normal, and if it is accepted, roleplay your arrival.

Will

*bumps make up a lot of one's post count, don't they?*

The strange man sighed.
'Our nation is NOT a warlike nation, we are merely here to provide advice, I believed I had make myself clear.'

OOC: Chill guys, I send my tech priests all over the place, I just wanted to give some advice ok?

Oh right, the security thing, I work with this other group of nations who share technology, I provide the priests, they provide the tech.
No worries.

OOC: YES, worries. I stated the terms of your participation in this RP, and you will adhere to them or I will insist that you leave it. This is not open for negotiation. I'm not being angry or beligerant, I'm simply stating the terms under which you can participate in this roleplay.

OOC: YES, worries. I stated the terms of your participation in this RP, and you will adhere to them or I will insist that you leave it. This is not open for negotiation. I'm not being angry or beligerant, I'm simply stating the terms under which you can participate in this roleplay.

No prob dude, I'v said what I wanted to anyway, all I wanted to do was give some advice. You had a problem so I suggested a solution. Chill

OOC: You're missing the point, SD. This isn't about how you want to solve our problem, it's about roleplaying the solution the same way the others have. The people who participate in this conference posted their characters arriving in an agreed upon, believable fashion, or they've been told to leave. It's not about reaching the solution, it's about playing the story that gets you to the solution.

That said, stop posting in this rp until you're ready to do it in the manner required. If you post again, I'm flagging a moderator.

To all participants, please ignore SD's contributions thus far to the conference.

[OOC: SD, dude... this is about ROLE PLAY. If you don't want to RP, don't post on the thread.]

The special Ambassador from New Shiron requests a point of inquiry

"What do we have at this point, could we have a summary of agreed to treaty terms? Plus a summary of what is still under discussion?"

The Prime Minister nodded.

"An excellent idea. Essentially, we have agreed to the establishment of the alliance in principle, that each nation will have sovereignty in regard to the status of the refugees provided they adhere to accepted standards of human rights, and to the creation of a fleet with which to conduct relief and exodus operations.

Still to be discussed are the specific privileges of the fleet during a rescue operation, the exact nature of the military portion of the alliance as a whole, and the nature of the governing authority, the council if you will, of the alliance."

once again the special Ambassador nodded and then rose to speak

"Then I suggest the following:

1. A special squadron of escort ships be formed, initially under the command of Mac Cumail, consisting of 1 frigate or destroyer from each signatory nation to provide escort in international waters for the fleet of rescue ships that would consist of 1 hospital ship or converted passenger liner from each signatory nation. Armed ships to remain in International Waters unless the otherwise ordered by the Alliance.

2. That the Alliance form a council with a representative from each nation, and that council appoint a chair who would have authority over the rescue fleet and the authority to order it in, as well as represent the council in dealing with other nations not in the Alliance.

3. As a general rule, this fleet must seek the permission of the nation whose waters it proposes to enter, unless there is no functioning government to contact. In that case, that is, in the case of a failed state like Somalia for example, the escort fleet would cover the rescue fleet at all times.

4. That a similar force of military transport aircraft be set aside, with each nation providing one squadron of aircraft, for rescue and support operations away from the coast.

5. That a multinational brigade sized force, consisting of one company or battalion from each signatory nation be formed to provide security forces for either the rescue fleet or airlift fleet in situations where a failed state exists.

6. That an attack on any of these forces be considered an attack on the national territory or forces of all the signatory states and an act of war.

7. That signatory nations sign a mutual defense treaty with one another obligating them to come to the defense of each other if any or all are attacked.

8. That the council require a vote before undertaking operations, and a majority decision be required before committing military forces of any kind inside the national territory of any other state.

I think that gives us something to talk about for the moment. What do the rest of you think?"

The Prime Minister nodded thoughtfully, looking at those around him.

"We have a fairly detailed suggestion on the table. Are there any who wish to comment on it?"

Vernon Messersmith nodded.

"The Commonwealth of Cisalpia will agree to these terms."

O'Shay looked over the terms for a minute and made some notes.
"The only problem I have is with term 7. I do not see how it is relevent to our aim here. Now, if the fleet is attacked, yes, we all come to its defense and see that as an act of war, but if say Sarzonia goes to war with another nation in an entirely unrelated incident, I can hardly see why any of us should be required by this treeted to go to her aid. If we want a Mutual Defence agreement, then we should call a conference to discuss it, but I do not think it falls under then intent of this treaty."

OOC: Assuming we adopt a treaty, would anyone want to create a forum to discuss and vote on issues dealing with this treaty. I'd be willing to creat one. If there's no interest though, I don't want to bother.

ooc: I'd dig such a forum, definitely!

IC:

The Commodore spoke up, her clear voice raised in a questioning tone, "Perhaps if we amended the statement to include the following distinctions:
If the fleet is attacked, or if a member nation of the alliance is attacked in retaliation for their participation in the treaty, the alliance is obligated to lend aid."

The Special Ambassador nodded,

"that is a very reasonable addendum."

Benson-Hopkins stood up with a preturbed look on her face.

"First of all, I would like to say that I find it interesting that you have chosen my country as your example of a warmongering nation," she said. When the desired effect of a chuckle was not forthcoming, her expression turned serious.

"I believe that the terms of the treaty as written and edited are reasonable," she said. "We are making it clear that this force is intended to be used solely to protect the fleet we are escorting. The members of this alliance are not and should not be under any obligation to support fellow member-nations in the event of an offensive action on their part. Countries that are attacked in an action unrelated to the escort of medical personnel also should not automatically expect defensive support. If member countries choose to support a defensive -- or offensive -- campaign, that should be the choice of the soverign governments of a particular member nation.

"Number seven would be the only one that I would have trouble dictating as policy. Other than that, we believe this is a very well-written treaty."

Rep. Messersmith frowned.

"It seems as though my colleagues are correct. Number 7 is indeed beyond the scope of this treaty. Besides, Number 6 appears to cover the area intended - that any attack on the fleet is war against all of us. We should drop number 7."

OOC: OK, what's the name of the treaty, I'll try to name the forum after it.

O'Shay chuckled softly at the Sarzonian delegate. "I think I agree that 6 takes care of the extent of the defense obligations. I would be willing to consider though the provision that should a member state be attacked in retaliation for accepting refugees - and there would need to be some sort of evidence for that - the other members be required to send aid, military or otherwise."

The Prime minister nodded in agreement.

"Then let us drop term seven, and ammend term six to include a proviso for the defence of fellow nations if it is proven they are under attack for adhering to this treaty."

Benson-Hopkins thought for a moment. At least she finally got the chuckle she was hoping for.

"If there is evidence that a country is being attacked for accepting refugees, I believe it goes without saying that we as an alliance should come to the aid of the affected nation. However, that could lead to a separate discussion of what exactly constitutes 'evidence' that the attack specifically had to do with the acceptance of refugees?

"Clearly, not all governments are forthcoming with their reasons for enmity against another nation."

[OOC: How about International Refuge Alliance?]

The special Ambassador cleared his throat and sipped a glass of water before speaking.

"Apparently I was too vague in proposal number 7. What I meant to say is that a defensive alliance be created in case on of our number was attacked for being a member of the Alliance. But I think a general defensive alliance would make us more creditable in terms of power. It would add a lot of weight to anything we as an Alliance chose to do.

But I am willing to accept the amended suggestions so far.

OOC: International Refuge or International Safe Haven Alliance sound good to me. ISHTAR is just a name I cobbled together for the short term.

IC:
An aide handed a folder to the Prime Minister, who took a moment to examine it...nodding, he made a gesture, and the aide began handing out a folder to each of the delegates.

"Ladies and gentlemen, we have here a modified version of the treaty as presented so far, suggested by one of my state department aides. Perhaps it will clarify terms more effectively, so that we may eliminate specifics one at a time. Please, open your folders and take a moment to review."

ooc: see attachments

da bumpin!

"New Shiron is ready to sign as is, but is willing to listen to further debate if necessary."

Vernon Messersmith stood and drew up to his full height.

"The Commonwealth of Cisalpia is also ready to sign this document. We are willing and able to provide all that is required for our duties under the treaty, and we hope that others are equally ready. While we are prepared to join the alliance with the terms described, we are also open to further discussions."

"I'm obligated to elaborate on signing the treaty with the Presidential Staff and the Senate,"

Benson-Hopkins stood up again and said, "I will need to consult with my superiors before signing the document. In addition, my House of Delegates will have to ratify any treaties before Sarzonia considers them valid."

She pulled out her laptop and quickly forwarded the treaty to House Speaker Josh Williams and President Mike Sarzo.

"I will notify you as soon as I hear anything."

[OOC: I run similarly to the United States, where a government body must ratify a treaty. Just for the sake of OOC information, I'll sign onto it but I'll give some RP time for the document to get to the floor of the House and be signed by the President.]

The Prime Minister nodded, smiling encouragingly at the assembled delegates.

"Please, do confer with your nations, and see what concerns your leadership may have with the document. I had not intended to push for signing the accords just now, in fact, but rather to present this revised form to see if it addresses the needs which have been raised. Your responses are encouraging, to say the least."

*bump goes the forum*

Back in Woodstock, the House Foreign Affairs Committee had just come out of its two hour meeting. Most of the time had been spent reading the terms of the treaty over and consulting with legal experts to get a sense for what the terms meant to Sarzonia. Once the Delegates assembled to start voting, the committee quickly came to a multi-partisan agreement that the treaty was acceptable.

The debate on the House floor was similiarly easy, with all but the most isolationist Conservatives on board with it. They didn't have enough votes to try a filibuster and they knew it. The vote very easily passed the House and Sarzo came over from the Gray House to sign the treaty.

"We believe in the terms of this agreement to provide a safe haven to those who genuinely deserve one," Sarzo said. "We will work in harmony with signatory nations to ensure the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to all."

He then transmitted his approval message to Benson-Hopkins.

That was fast, she thought when she saw the transmission flash across the screen of her laptop.

"Our President has signed the treaty and our House of Delegates has ratified it," she said. "Sarzonia is now a signatory nation."

Prime Minister Dempsey nodded, quite pleased with the progress. "We thank the Sarzonians for committing to our noble venture, and look forward to working with them."

O'Shay made one last look over the document and nodded.
"As I have been given authority to speek for the Grand Council of Yr Widdfa, I will sign the treaty." After signing he handed the pen to one of his aids who then spoke. "Gwendd, as a fiefdom of Yr Widdfa, also agrees to adhere to this treaty. As Prince of Gwenedd, I speak for her." He signed.

OOC: Ok, I've got the forum up and running. It is located at s8.invisionfree.com/ISHTAR so go register. There's a place for Mac Cumhail to post the treaty. Whenever you do just put "pinned:" before the name (without the quotes) so it doesn't ever get lost or deleted. I'll also set you up as a moderator. I'm not sure what powers that gives you but it will do something. If you have any suggestions for additional sub-forums, just tg me. That goes for anyone.

*bump*

*bump*

*one more try, eh? bump*

ooc
now that we have signed the alliance... now what?

ooc: hm. I'll write up a list of signatories thus far tommorow, then. Seems like we've got all the sigs we're going to, though I need to send it to Vastiva for their confirmation too.

Sorry about the delays, real life keeps interfering.

Vastiva requests a summary of the treaty to be signed before signing will be considered.

Hamid rose to his full height and stuffed the various collected folders into a single map.

"If you'd excuse me, I'll consult with the Senate on signing,"

He rushed out, took a seat in the visitors hall and pulled out his laptop, setting up a secure satellite communications link. Transferring all prerequisited data to his homeland, he leaned back, eagerly awaiting a response.

In Kusair, the entire Senate was already commencing to vote on signing and the treaty was passed with ease, even the ruling Conservative Nationalist Party admitting the treaty's benefits outweighted its costs to national resources.

Hamid burst back in, a wide smile across his lips.

"I'm pleased, ladies and gentlemen, to announce that Al-Sabir can be now considered a signatory nation,"