NationStates Jolt Archive

Sample pictures are unavailable, delegates are to use their imagination (OOC: :D)

In light of an age where terrorism reigns, and national leaders continue to make foolish decisions that affect us all, the world needs security. Colodia's scientists adress this security need by an orbital assasination weapon. Similar to any other orbital weapon, this one fires a bullet with heat shields at a target on one's head or any other part of the body.

The drawback is a lack of sufficient aiming technology. There is a +/- error of up to 100ft with Colodia's technology. And for something this small, pinpoint accuracy is required.

Other scientists have proposed missiles rather than bullets. The proposal has been swept away by examples of other wars where missiles were used as assasination weapons. Dozens are killed, sometimes needlessly. With this technology, the damage is one dead and some blood splatter.

Another drawback is that the target must be outdoors in order to be found, obviously, by the weapon. Real humans will command the fire and the target, much to the relief of many people.

But Colodia cannot create and launch such an advanced weapon of tomorrow alone. We send out an invitation for other nations to help us create this weapon to assasinate those that create a threat to our nations.

OOC: If you have questions, TG me rather than posting them here. For I am a very busy person...especially on weekdays.

We already have a superweapon under construction. Ours will be much better than yours. Ours uses psychology and such to defeat the enemy.

The New Republic of Luna I at Copernicus strongly advises against the use of space to mount orbital-planetary weapons. It would be ashame to turn space into another warzone. Luna I repectfully request you dismantle your spaceborne weapons programs and ally with us in scientific exploration and industrialization of our systems resources.

En Sabah Nur, Phd., Prime Minister, Luna I

To: the entity of Colodia
From: The Kingdom of Weyr, Office of the Star Ocean Guard, Earthbound Division.
Subject: Terran Ortillery

Any object, located in Terran orbit, that passes over Weyrean territory, must be registered with the Weyrean Star Ocean Guard, Earthbound Directorate, or risk immediate destruction. The Kingdom of Weyr retains the right to forcibly alter the orbital path of any object passing over its territories and further reserves the right to ensure that the said object does not pass over Weyrean territory again. Should any obect attempt to launch a projectile or vehicle over or into the Kingdom of Weyr, it will be forcibly removed. ((if your satellite passes over Weyr, it will be moved so that it can't pass over Weyr ever again))

The employment of orbital weapons (ortillery) against the inhabitants and the territories of Weyr will lead to the suspension of the Earthbound Protection Contract. ((Your nation will not be protected from advanced Weyrean weapons systems should you choose to use orbital weapons))

Sincerely,
Joto Ira, Head of Orbital Surveilance, SOG

To: the entity of Colodia
From: The Kingdom of Weyr, Office of the Star Ocean Guard, Earthbound Division.
Subject: Terran Ortillery

Any object, located in Terran orbit, that passes over Weyrean territory, must be registered with the Weyrean Star Ocean Guard, Earthbound Directorate, or risk immediate destruction. The Kingdom of Weyr retains the right to forcibly alter the orbital path of any object passing over its territories and further reserves the right to ensure that the said object does not pass over Weyrean territory again. Should any obect attempt to launch a projectile or vehicle over or into the Kingdom of Weyr, it will be forcibly removed. ((if your satellite passes over Weyr, it will be moved so that it can't pass over Weyr ever again))

The employment of orbital weapons (ortillery) against the inhabitants and the territories of Weyr will lead to the suspension of the Earthbound Protection Contract. ((Your nation will not be protected from advanced Weyrean weapons systems should you choose to use orbital weapons))

Sincerely,
Joto Ira, Head of Orbital Surveilance, SOG
So long as your nation DOES NOT act as a threat to Colodia, than your wish shall be granted.

We already have a superweapon under construction. Ours will be much better than yours. Ours uses psychology and such to defeat the enemy.
Ours will have a bar and dance floor...

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

Waste billions of dollars in a satellite that is inaccurate that is used to kill humans? Or, use a few hundred dollars to get an assasin and do the same job with a bullet. Besides, we already have a superweapon, it involves 80's pop.
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff

We are alocating emergency funds to the development of a Luna Defense Force and an Orbital Guard - and we are drafting a proposed International Fleet that will be dedicated to maintaining the peace in space, paid for by an alliance of space investing nations interested in the peacful exploration and industrialization of space to that effect like the citizens of Luna I.

In the short term - plans are on the board to refit our orbital launch & work horses with plasma rocket driven microfusion devices and mdp beam weapons. A temporary solution until a shipyards can be made in orbit capable of making warships that can provide a dedicated defense of our nation and interest - which are the peaceful exploration & industrialization of the moon and our system.

We hope they will never have to be used. But we will be prepared in the event that they do.

Prime Minister En Sabah Nur, Republic of Luna I

Official Statement from The Proletariat Commonwealth of The Island of Rose:

Waste billions of dollars in a satellite that is inaccurate that is used to kill humans? Or, use a few hundred dollars to get an assasin and do the same job with a bullet. Besides, we already have a superweapon, it involves 80's pop.
-Minister of Commerce: Nikolai Geoff
When nations of high-attention is at war or at tension against another high-attention nation, security tends to get pretty high. Besides, we don't like to put the lives of our men at needless risks.

And this satellite just makes James Bond seem like a rag doll.

We are alocating emergency funds to the development of a Luna Defense Force and an Orbital Guard - and we are drafting a proposed International Fleet that will be dedicated to maintaining the peace in space, paid for by an alliance of space investing nations interested in the peacful exploration and industrialization of space to that effect like the citizens of Luna I.

In the short term - plans are on the board to refit our orbital launch & work horses with plasma rocket driven microfusion devices and mdp beam weapons. A temporary solution until a shipyards can be made in orbit capable of making warships that can provide a dedicated defense of our nation and interest - which are the peaceful exploration & industrialization of the moon and our system.

We hope they will never have to be used. But we will be prepared in the event that they do.

Prime Minister En Sabah Nur, Republic of Luna I
Mess naught with Colodia, Luna I, for we doubt your military on the ground cannot possibly stand up to Colodia. We mean no harm to anyone but those who mean harm.

Along with the blueprints of the Orbital Assasination Weapon (O.A.W.), Colodia is also drawing up plans for a "Space Force," a new military branch for Colodia.

More updates soon as they develop.

Your over inflated military budget doesnot intimidate us.

You have nothing to fear from us in terms of invasion but we will mess with whoever we must to insure the safe passage for our citizens access to space and its peaceful exploration. That is all that interest us - our calling - stay out of our way and you wont have a problem. Threaten our godgiven freedom to explore and colonize space and we will have issues to resolve one way or another. We did not leave earth to face the same kind of threats.

Prime Minister En Sabah Nur, Coppernicus, Luna I

(OOC: How do you plan on calculating variencies is wind, target movement, and time between when the shot is fired and impact?)

(OOC: How do you plan on calculating variencies is wind, target movement, and time between when the shot is fired and impact?)
Like we said, our accuracy technology needs help in the matter.

Your over inflated military budget doesnot intimidate us.

You have nothing to fear from us in terms of invasion but we will mess with whoever we must to insure the safe passage for our citizens access to space and its peaceful exploration. That is all that interest us - our calling - stay out of our way and you wont have a problem. Threaten our godgiven freedom to explore and colonize space and we will have issues to resolve one way or another. We did not leave earth to face the same kind of threats.

Prime Minister En Sabah Nur, Coppernicus, Luna I
Colodia has always held a "You don't attack us, we don't attack you" policy.

Like we said, our accuracy technology needs help in the matter.

Would the bullet carry a lot of intertial mass with it? Like a piece of metal accellerated to relativistic speeds in a railgun - that would minimize vector calculations.

We are working on rail guns now for our orbital guard and lunar defense forces because we have md plasma beam weapons which are short ranged and plasma rocket driven warheads but are too slow. So we're looking into railguns to solve our strategic weapons gap.

Why I just blurted out such classified information is beyond me *HEY GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY THROAT..AAAAAAAAhhh

Fleet Captain Cortez, Copernicus, Luna I

Would the bullet carry a lot of intertial mass with it? Like a piece of metal accellerated to relativistic speeds in a railgun - that would minimize vector calculations.

We are working on rail guns now for our orbital guard and lunar defense forces because we have md plasma beam weapons which are short ranged and plasma rocket driven warheads but are too slow. So we're looking into railguns to solve our strategic weapons gap.

Why I just blurted out such classified information is beyond me *HEY GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY THROAT..AAAAAAAAhhh

Fleet Captain Cortez, Copernicus, Luna I

If by "intertial mass within" you mean if the bullet is going to have a hell load of mass for it's size, than yes....yes that's what we plan. It seems only sensible. It allows for a less time for the target to move out of the way (targets don't move much during speeches or during a meeting). And even if the target moves between the time of launch and the time of impact, than the expected event occuring following the bullet's impact on the ground to be equal to that of your average missile, more or less.

Although that would just kill off our hopes for less injury to innocents. So perhaps different bullet types per situation? One for stationary targets, another for mobile?

any effective oject entering the atmosphere to deliver its mass on the ground is going to be carrying enough momentum to cause an explosion no matter what. I dont think its possible to make an orbital weapon system subtle.

As director of defence in the region of Reformed Oceania I will not hesitate to destroy any hostile weapon orbiting our region, however if your weapon was shut off over Reformed Oceania then it will ot be conisdered a threat.

If by "intertial mass within" you mean if the bullet is going to have a hell load of mass for it's size, than yes....yes that's what we plan. It seems only sensible. It allows for a less time for the target to move out of the way (targets don't move much during speeches or during a meeting). And even if the target moves between the time of launch and the time of impact, than the expected event occuring following the bullet's impact on the ground to be equal to that of your average missile, more or less.

Although that would just kill off our hopes for less injury to innocents. So perhaps different bullet types per situation? One for stationary targets, another for mobile?

first off how big are you bullets going to be and what are they going to be made out of? We have a similar system, but it is to be used for larger targest such as tanks, ships, building, ect....

OOC: Luna, stand down or die. You do not have the resources to even create space troopers, much less threaten Colodia (September nation)

IC: We will support Colodia in this project and give him protection from any nations trying to stop this development.

Any object, located in Terran orbit, that passes over Weyrean territory, must be registered with the Weyrean Star Ocean Guard, Earthbound Directorate, or risk immediate destruction. The Kingdom of Weyr retains the right to forcibly alter the orbital path of any object passing over its territories and further reserves the right to ensure that the said object does not pass over Weyrean territory again. Should any obect attempt to launch a projectile or vehicle over or into the Kingdom of Weyr, it will be forcibly removed. ((if your satellite passes over Weyr, it will be moved so that it can't pass over Weyr ever again))

OOC -

Satellite Overflights (taken from TEO's space physics guide)

[There are dozens- if not scores or hundreds- of nations with modern space technology in the game. Each one of these puts several dozen satellites of various types into a wide variety of orbital paths. We’ll pull a bunch of numbers out of the air and say that there are fifty nations with satellites in orbit (using only real-world technology). If each such nation puts up 5 reconnaissance satellites (a reasonably small number, since the USA has a large- but classified- number of advanced spy satellites). That makes 250 satellites. Each one also has 10 communications satellites (far too small a number), for an additional 500 satellites. We’ll also assume each nation has 5 weather satellites (another 250 birds). With these extremely rough numbers, we have over 1000 satellites in orbit. I haven’t even mentioned the GPS satellites, dedicated cell-phone satellites, orbital observatories, et cetera.

A lot of these birds will be in polar orbits. The satellite travels over both poles as the planet rotates beneath them. This allows the satellites to cover the entire planet over time. Other satellites will be in orbits that go slightly north and slightly south of the equator, thoroughly covering the terrain between their northern and southern maximum latitudes. Other satellites will be in geosynchronous orbits (at around 36,000 kilometers, the orbital speed matches the Earth’s rotation, so the satellite stays over the same portion of the Earth’s surface). Most of these will be observing the entire hemisphere that faces them.

Because of these facts, every nation may be reasonably certain that there are satellites flying over their territory at least once/day. Most rational nations agree that their national territorial claims end at the earth’s stratosphere, but I won’t get into International Laws here.]

[Source] (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=278778)

Most nations, including myself, don't think of the space above your nation as anyones territory, seeing as it is impossible to leave my satallites above my nation alone (due to physics, I'm not close enough to the equator to have that sort of orbit on my satallites). So they have to use a polar orbit,

I'm not going to waste fuel on moving around a certain part of space because that reduces the satallites life span by alot and will cost me (and everyone else who has to move) billions of dollars...

I will register my satalites with you; Iuthia only has one satellite which can be concidered military and that is our Space Station, though I may be able to claim that it's too far out to count... I've never thought about it. Note that all communication satellites of mine are probably equipped to be able to double as reconnaissance (i.e spy) satellites, but they aren't officially so and will be listed as communication satellites.

If you or anyone shoots them down you will be asked nicely to pay for them, I'll extend diplomacy for as long as I can but if you don't comply it's likely you will suffer consquences.


As for the thread itself... it seems a little silly to me as a bullet fired from a satellite seems completely pointless. With Ortillery you are firing a large enough munition so that even if it's course is altered by the atmostphere you will still generally hit your target... with a bullet I doubt you can be this accurate and the speed it will decend may even seriously injure others through the impact...

IC:

Iuthia would like to note that we don't feel entirely threatened by this technology due to the fact that we doubt it could accurately hit an intended target due to the incalculable conditions which would undoubtably alter it's course enough to make such an attempt flawed.

However, it should be noted that any nation firing Ortillery at Iuthia what-so ever will be concidered enacting a declaration of war on Iuthia and as such we will respond in kind as well as calling upon our allies to inform them that another nation has enacted a WMD strike on Iuthia. Like Wyre we like to keep a record of satellites above our nation and make sure that we know which satellites are above our nation at any time.

You have been warned,

Foriegn Minister Mike Lakely, Iuthian Diplomatic Corps

IC:

Iuthia would like to note that we don't feel entirely threatened by this technology due to the fact that we doubt it could accurately hit an intended target due to the incalculable conditions which would undoubtably alter it's course enough to make such an attempt flawed.

However, it should be noted that any nation firing Ortillery at Iuthia what-so ever will be concidered enacting a declaration of war on Iuthia and as such we will respond in kind as well as calling upon our allies to inform them that another nation has enacted a WMD strike on Iuthia. Like Wyre we like to keep a record of satellites above our nation and make sure that we know which satellites are above our nation at any time.

You have been warned,

Foriegn Minister Mike Lakely, Iuthian Diplomatic Corps
We would hardly consider a giant orbiting gun in space firing a bullet a WMD. Still, "Don't attack Colodia, Colodia doesn't attack you"

As director of defence in the region of Reformed Oceania I will not hesitate to destroy any hostile weapon orbiting our region, however if your weapon was shut off over Reformed Oceania then it will ot be conisdered a threat.
As said a bit later in the thread, it will be financial suicide to divert the satellite so as to not orbit above your country and then put it back on course. Just accept that Colodia will not mean any harm to your nation and the simple fact that you cannot prevent your skies to be clear from international satellites forever.

first off how big are you bullets going to be and what are they going to be made out of? We have a similar system, but it is to be used for larger targest such as tanks, ships, building, ect....
Well, like we said, we want to prevent huge destruction upon bullet's impact. So perhaps around 2-5 inches in length, 1-2 inches in width. And we would like assistance as to what the contents of the bullet would be.

We would hardly consider a giant orbiting gun in space firing a bullet a WMD.

Well, should such a weapon be used against Iuthia or any of it's allies without solid reason then we would treat it like an ortillery attack, which is techinically concidered a WMD regardless of size. Though it needs to be noted that Iuthia does not keep a nuclear arsenal for retaliation as we are strongly opposed to such weapons of mass destruction... but that doesn't mean we wouldn't react harshly with our vast military assets. This is how we would treat it, especially if you attempt to kill a VIP with your weapon.

However, given that your nation will not use this weapon as a first strike, or at least it had better not, we doubt that it would be a problem in anycase. Given that we doubt this weapon will actually strike a target given the impossible calculations required to fire it accurately through an atmostphere with varied conditions and not to mention movements of the target made harder to predict though time delay of the picture. What's more should it actually work... well the evidence would be clear enough.

So despite our doubt in such a weapons use, we feel that a warning is important just in case.

Foriegn Minister Mike Lakely, Iuthian Diplomatic Corps

Some problems with accuracy and the solutions/possible solutions/status

Varied atmospheric conditions - No solution as of yet
Moving target - The target will only be strucken when he/she becomes a stationary target. Most likely when the target is making a speech or is stopped, so as not to waste a perfectly good assasination attempt
Impact errors - This is currently a side-affect as to if the bullet misses the target and creates a decent impact on the Earth. Currently, there is no solution
Computer error - [i]Computers will be doing general accuracy movements, humans will be doing most of the work. More work will be accurate once the Space Force is in full operation and can work within the weapon.


Remember, this is exactly what we try to prevent:
http://www.bragg.army.mil/www-82DV/photo%20galery/iraq%202/january/house%206%20.jpg

Nations that call this an impossible task will be one day proven wrong as scientists once dismissed claims of Global Warming dangers, space flights, the Earth being round...technology does not stay at the same pace. Colodia seeks to move technology to the greater good with this weapon. Colodia only sees benefits, we hardly see any dangers with the weapon. Particulary, it makes a good intimidation weapon.

OOC: Out of interest (I've got to have something to do) I talked to some of the people on IRC about the idea and so far we're a little confused on how one would heatshield something like a bullet sufficiently bearing in mind that no heatshield is perfect (nothing is entirely heat proof)... the current opinion going around is that modern day materials would still not be good enough to properly heat shield the bullet in question. By reducing it's profile and making it from the most high temperature material you can try... but unless you are using magic it would melt at some point.

However, personally I see it as getting a little pedantic given that some of my own technology ignores some issues regarding physics (hell, I claim hover tanks at times... though not often) so my advice would be to ask the person you are going to use it on if they will accept it... it's not a bad idea but like many it's not perfect. So long as you balance it you should have few qualms.

OOC: Yes, I'm not seeking to create the godly weapon of the new century. Realistically, a weapon like this would face a lot of maintainence, funding, and general problems. Unless we find others who are interested in this project, it's likely to be scrapped until we become more experianced in space.

Why don't you just use a powerful laser? It would be easier to aim, require less maintenance and no ammo, has no recoil....... It can't shoot through clouds but then bullets can't either if you can't see the target...... It could theoretically be used for other tasks like missile interception........

Why don't you just use a powerful laser? It would be easier to aim, require less maintenance and no ammo, has no recoil....... It can't shoot through clouds but then bullets can't either if you can't see the target...... It could theoretically be used for other tasks like missile interception........
Now that does seem better than using a bullet, but would it use more energy to shoot than a bullet? A bullet uses the power of the Earth's gravity...a laser needs all it's power at launching point in order to be effective by the time it reaches its target.

Meh, you're in space, just use solar cells and capacitors, unless you really need it to assassinate a lot of people really fast it shouldn't be a big deal...

You could also look into guided ammo to improve accuracy.