NationStates Jolt Archive

In order to counter the growing amount of Communist and Socialist nations, I am holding a Capitalist World Summit at the the newly-built, massive Convention Center in Holy Paradise City. All attenders will be provided a free stay in one of the 150 suites at the 5-star Paradise Hotel, also in Holy Paradise City. Foods and drinks from around the world will be provided at the convention. The main goal of this summit is to plan a defense for all capitalist countries and other goals. Please attend as soon as you can. You may provide up to 6 bodyguards with weapons at the summit. The meeting will start tomorrow at 2:00 PM real world U.S. Central Time. If I'm not there, continue with the summit as planned. If you wish to attend, please post who's coming, how many bodyguards are also coming, and your country. I, President John H. of Holy Paradise and Holy Paradise Islands will be attending the meeting with 6 bodyguards. Thank you.

The Emirate of New Zambuda will send Ronald Stamon. He is Vice Minister of Economic Policy. He will attend with the maximum number of bodyguards. He will fly in on a government 737 aircraft.

President J.L. will of course be delighted to attend.

Vice-Secretary of state Gordon Brown would be most pleased to attend.

Holy Emperor Torsg XXX of Torsg Empire is interested in attending.
He will be guarded by four imperial guards.

I must inquire as to why you despise socialist nations. Socialism is a benevolent practice in which the masses are incorporated into government. This is far more efficient than republics, or even parliamentary systems. In accordance with John Locke ( a famous 17th century philosopher), people are supposed to comprise government.

I would also like to add that capitalism is not necessarily a government type, it is a form of infrastructure (a basic system for the control and perpetuation of the means of production "supply and demand"etc.). Whereas Socialism is both.
Socialists and capitalists need not be enemies. This vendetta has most probably been perpetuated by a general ignorance of socialism. Once people understand socialism and its implications, it will be tolerated if not embraced.

Socialism is a system in which the means of production are controlled by the civil populace of a state. This means private enterprise (business) is not needed in order for society to function efficiently. It has been said that business is a negative entity in that it promotes greed, radical deviations in income between classes, and poor worker rights.
Socialism encourages spectacular labor laws, phenomenal schools, and aid for the lower classes (the proletariat class).

I don't hate socialism at all. I merely disagree with it.

I must inquire as to why you despise socialist nations. Socialism is a benevolent practice in which the masses are incorporated into government. This is far more efficient than republics, or even parliamentary systems. In accordance with John Locke ( a famous 17th century philosopher), people are supposed to comprise government.

I would also like to add that capitalism is not necessarily a government type, it is a form of infrastructure (a basic system for the control and perpetuation of the means of production "supply and demand"etc.). Whereas Socialism is both.
Socialists and capitalists need not be enemies. This vendetta has most probably been perpetuated by a general ignorance of socialism. Once people understand socialism and its implications, it will be tolerated if not embraced.

Socialism is a system in which the means of production are controlled by the civil populace of a state. This means private enterprise (business) is not needed in order for society to function efficiently. It has been said that business is a negative entity in that it promotes greed, radical deviations in income between classes, and poor worker rights.
Socialism encourages spectacular labor laws, phenomenal schools, and aid for the lower classes (the proletariat class). allright we understand, this is more against communism anyway.

Emperor Barbarossa Will come to the Meeting, to show good will to all Nations who are against Communist Nations.

Emperor Barbarossa Will come to the Meeting, to show good will to all Nations who are against Communist Nations.

Wait you suddenly have a leader now? This is a great step forward, hopefully you can RP this conference decently and gain some respect.

Also at this meeting we will put together a list of reasons why communism doesn't work.

remember everyone that we are not here to argue with each other, but instead counter communism.

Splendid. We look forward to it. And we should end the conference with an execution of a communist, broadcast on international TV! :D

No, no, no. That is wrong. Even I, a conservative, thinks that's wrong. We are simply trying to make a defense against communism, not an attack. Just thinking of that is appalling. That RB, is not a show of support of capitalism, it is plain and simple homicide. Everyone is allowed to have their own political beliefs. We are just trying to defend ourselves from some.

Excellent!! We will send Krehid-Ali II, the Sultan's son, to the sumit.

No, no, no. That is wrong. Even I, a conservative, thinks that's wrong. We are simply trying to make a defense against communism, not an attack. Just thinking of that is appalling. That RB, is not a show of support of capitalism, it is plain and simple homicide. Everyone is allowed to have their own political beliefs. We are just trying to defend ourselves from some.

Lol, okay...:D

(Bows head down in shame)

its okay, everyone gets those ideas every once in while.

I respect your opinions on government. However, you are displaying an unprecedented ignorance of economics :headbang: . (for the record:not all communists/socialists are violent, my nation happily practices pacifism)

Communism works quite well. Communism utilizes a general workforce (labor force, proletariats) to produce products, or manage domestic and foreign affairs. In essence, we are cutting out the middle man (business). With the current U.S. system of government, you deal with superfluous minutia. Namely, the branches of government. Once you consolidate power, everything is more coherant.

Communism entitles the government to exclusively manage the means of production, and redistribute (or abolish) income. With many systems today (such as China and Cuba) a family is entitled to socialized health care, free education (elementary, middle, high, college, graduate school, etc.), free food, clothing, and housing. In exchange for these marvelous commodities, a person will work for the government (or a component thereof), or pay upwards of 80% in income tax. Upon reflection, this is a reasonable price for a system that provides useful amenities.

I do not have time to describe Communism in its entirety. If you wish to read more on communism: Das Kapital by: Karl Marx, and The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Hopefully I have cleared up some uncertainties. In summary, You may have moral disagreements with communism as a system, but to deny its effectiveness is foolish.

Communism only works on paper, not in real life. Just look at the former Soviet Union.

Communism only works on paper, not in real life.

Agreed.

No matter what all people want power. This is what dosen't make communism work. All in all, one guy is going to become supreme leader.

I respect your opinions on government. However, you are displaying an unprecedented ignorance of economics :headbang: . (for the record:not all communists/socialists are violent, my nation happily practices pacifism)

Communism works quite well. Communism utilizes a general workforce (labor force, proletariats) to produce products, or manage domestic and foreign affairs. In essence, we are cutting out the middle man (business). With the current U.S. system of government, you deal with superfluous minutia. Namely, the branches of government. Once you consolidate power, everything is more coherant.

Communism entitles the government to exclusively manage the means of production, and redistribute (or abolish) income. With many systems today (such as China and Cuba) a family is entitled to socialized health care, free education (elementary, middle, high, college, graduate school, etc.), free food, clothing, and housing. In exchange for these marvelous commodities, a person will work for the government (or a component thereof), or pay upwards of 80% in income tax. Upon reflection, this is a reasonable price for a system that provides useful amenities.

I do not have time to describe Communism in its entirety. If you wish to read more on communism: Das Kapital by: Karl Marx, and The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

Hopefully I have cleared up some uncertainties. In summary, You may have moral disagreements with communism as a system, but to deny its effectiveness is foolish.


But the underlying assumption of this entire theory is that man is inherently good and cannot be corrupted. Since this assumption was decisivly proved false in the USSR and other communist nations, the entire theory is in-valid.

I agree. Karl Marx invisioned Communism to be the perfect government/economy. However, every government has its problems. One of Communism's problems is:

1: They order how many crops must be grown, and if a drought hits and the crop amounts don't make their quota, problems occur.

Communism has (so far) only been established in second-third world countries. This is not very fair, nor indicative of communism's potential. It is true that one person ends up running the show, however there have been many successful dictatorships...like the ROMAN EMPIRE. The soviet union ultimately collapsed because Reagon (*cough* fascist *cough*) drove them to fiscal destitution.

To answer your concern on the supply of crops:

It is true that there are quotas. If there is a drought, they simply utilize stored grains to account for those absent (during a surplus they store excess food).

I agree. Karl Marx invisioned Communism to be the perfect government/economy. However, every government has its problems. One of Communism's problems is:

1: They order how many crops must be grown, and if a drought hits and the crop amounts don't make their quota, problems occur.

Karl Marx was right in a few things, but not all. But when the Russian Communists got a hold of it, they turned it into a Nightmare Government That wanted to rule the world. Communism is a Economic Idea Turned into a Nightmare of the ages.

Communism is a old Dinosuar that needs to be thrown out, Blown up, and Put into the ground. It is dead, gone, never to rise again.

Karl Marx was right in a few things, but not all. But when the Russian Communists got a hold of it, they turned it into a Nightmare Government That wanted to rule the world. Communism is a Economic Idea Turned into a Nightmare of the ages.

Communism is a old Dinosuar that needs to be thrown out, Blown up, and Put into the ground. It is dead, gone, never to rise again.

With human nature the way it is, communism can never work.

With human nature the way it is, communism can never work.

It would have worked, if the Russians didin't get a hold of it and turned it to the thing it is today, a old dinosuar.

Let's get back on track, people.

It would have worked, if the Russians didin't get a hold of it and turned it to the thing it is today, a old dinosuar.

No, even strict interpretation of Marx would not have worked.

(Sorry for cluttering)

Communism has (so far) only been established in second-third world countries. This is not very fair, nor indicative of communism's potential. It is true that one person ends up running the show, however there have been many successful dictatorships...like the ROMAN EMPIRE. The soviet union ultimately collapsed because Reagon (*cough* fascist *cough*) drove them to fiscal destitution.

To answer your concern on the supply of crops:

It is true that there are quotas. If there is a drought, they simply utilize stored grains to account for those absent (during a surplus they store excess food).
Reagan was not a fascist. He was a great man who's job was to protect the country. Now please. This is a meeting for capitalist countries only. Please leave.

bumpity bump bump, bumpity bump bump.

bump

President John H. put on his best suit after getting a shower. Meanwhile, 100s of people began setting up the convention center for the 3 day summit. President John planned to release his last name at the summit. It was time to acknoweledge his family's last name.

To President John of Holy Paradise;

The Republic of Mac Cumhail will be attending your conference, represented by Prime Minister Sean Dempsey. He will be attended by four bodyguards from the Republican Black Watch battallion, along with the Secretary of Economic Affairs and the Secretary of Diplomatic Affairs. We eagerly anticipate this gathering of fellow capitalist nations, and hope it leads to many new friendships.

Sincerely,
Prime Minister Sean Dempsey and the Legislature of Mac Cumhail

To all nations who are coming, thank you. The summit will be in 3 hours and 46 minutes.

bump

Krehid-Ali II fastened his turban. He looked at his father, sultan of Inkana.
"Do you think they'll like my speech?" He asked
"They'll love it, now go and make Inkana proud" awnsered the Sultan.

bump

How many bodyguards can I have?

The Emperor is coming on The Battleship Black Dragon so do not shoot at the Battleship about the size of 2 Neherenia Class Battleships (6 Bismark Battleships.)

God Hataria, quit your godmoding! You're welcome here, but as big as 6 bismarks? Come on.

Its posible, but slow, expensive, and pointless.

Notquiteaplace will be sending a luxury yacht into port. It will be escorted until your waters.

We will send our present minster of trade. Joesphina Beesely She will be arguing for peaceful coexistance. We leave them alone, they leave us alone. Hell we can mae money from them if they mess up, selling goods to fill the gaps, while they sell excess goods to us. To finance the aquisition of goods they want more of. We should encourage them to not totally close to us, but to exchange with us in terms fo goods. Everyone benifits and they dont have to compromise their system.

If they become violent we treat them the way we treat any other enemies. *mimes squashing them*

OOC: Last I heard China wassn't exactly communist any more. Its becoming more free marketeering.

God Hataria, quit your godmoding! You're welcome here, but as big as 6 bismarks? Come on.

We build our own warships, and we build them Large and Powerful.

Emperor Torsg XXX is coming on board of Torsg Navy's flagship "Norland" along with best of the imperial guards. Emperor is suggesting that we leave current communist countries alone and concentrate on preventing communist organisations/parties forming in our nations. Emperor is also looking to establish new trade relations with other countries.

At the convention center, the remaining HPBC camera crews and reporters are there.

This is HPBC with Sean Handdity.

"For the next 3 days we will be bringing you live coverage of the Capitalist World Summit here in Holy Paradise City. The amount of world leaders and government officials attending this meeting is the largest amount of any meeting except for the United Nations. So far, the list of attendees are:

Our President, John H.
Ronald Stamon, Vice Minister of Foriegn Policy, New Zambuda
President J.L., President of Roach-Busters, Holy Paradise's closest ally
Gordon Brown, Vice-Secretary of State, Wirraway
Holy Emperor Torsg XXX of the Torsg Empire
Emperor Barbarossa of Hataria
Kerhid-Ali II, , the Sultan of Inkana's son
Prime Minister Sean Dempsey of Mac Cumhail
Joesphina Beesely, Minister of Trade, Notquiteaplace

The meeting will begin in about 1 hour and 15 minutes.

Come on, lets get more people here!

(HPBC)

"And here comes President John H.! Receiving a warm welcome by the press. The most interesting thing at this summit is that Hataria's leader, Emperor Barbarossa, will be attending. As you know, that not long ago we were at war with Hataria. This is quite the change in diplomatic relations. We also have found out that Mac Cumhail's Secretary of Economic Affairs and Secretary of Diplomatic Affairs will be present. The doors are opening....and..its...Emperor Barbarossa of Hataria, who receives a warm welcome too by the press and President John H. We have also received word that Emperor Torsg XXX from the Torsg Empire is on his way.

The meeting is in one hour people.

President Eric D. Williamson will attend on behalf of the Constitutional Republic.

Arrival will be on the PCU Neptune, SSBGN(X)-1

We have just received word that President Eric D. Williamson of Tekania will be attending.

bump

remember the summit begins in 12 minutes!

Emperor's ship has arrived and is waiting permission to dock near Holy Paradise.

10 minutes!

I will be most honoured to attend on behalf of the Capitalist Republic of Pacitalia. I'll be there in a few minutes.

Generia would be interested in sending a delegate. We have yet to select a suitable personage, but we assure you we will have a representative. He will be accompanied by a single Praetorian guardsman.

This is HPBC with Sean Handdity.

"The summit is about to kick off! President John H. of Holy Paradise; Emperor Barbarossa of Hataria; Holy Emperor Torsg XXX of the Torsg Empire; President J.L. of Roach-Busters; Kerhid-Ali II, the Sultan of Inkana's son; Prime Minister Sean Dempsey of Mac Cumhail and his Secretary of Economic Affairs and Secretary of Diplomatic Affairs; President Eric D. Williamson of Tekania; Ronald Stamon, Vice Minister of Foreign Policy of New Zambuda; Gordon Brown, Vice-Secretary of State of Wirraway; and Joesphina Beesely, Minister of Trade of Notquiteaplace are here. And President John had stepped up to the podium. Let's see what he says." said Sean Handdity.

"I happy to say that the Capitalist World Summit is now under way!" President John H. said happily. Cheers resounded in the convention center. President John then put his hand up, "My last name is Holtz, for all of you who always wondered what's my last name." said President John Holtz.

"Well, there it is! President John has just announced his last name, Holtz." said Sean Handdity.

I may also add that I will be bringing two Pacitalian Central Protection guards along with me to the summit, and that I will be arriving at Holy Paradise City International Airport immediately.

"We have just found out that Pacitalia and Generic Empire will be sending delegates, too." announced Sean Handdity.

Are you allowed to plant bombs in this 5-star hotel so we can blow the hell out you dirty capitalists or what?

ps. Sure, I'll be sending something, 20kg of self-detonating C4 charges and a couple of men armed with RPGs with my compliments of some Slimfast(You fat industrialists really need to lose some weight)

I have arrived at the Convention Center. What a wonderful country this is, I thank you for your hospitality for this summit. If at all possible, I, Prime Minister Tim Ell, would be honoured to make a speech.

Emperor's ship has docked in Holy Paradise and Emperor is on his way to Convention Center along with his guards and escort.

"And here enters Pacitalia's representative. I don't believe I have heard of them but by the looks of their leader, they seem like a great country." said Sean Handdity. President John Holtz went up to Pacitalia's representative and shook hands with him, smiling. "Now I don't believe we have met before. My name is President John Holtz. What is yours?" President John Holtz asked.

Would it be possible for Krehid-Ali II to make a speech?

Sure. He is a representative.

Are you allowed to plant bombs in this 5-star hotel so we can blow the hell out you dirty capitalists or what?

ps. Sure, I'll be sending something, 20kg of self-detonating C4 charges and a couple of men armed with RPGs with my compliments of some Slimfast(You fat industrialists really need to lose some weight)
This is a peacful summit. Please leave us alone or we'll fire an ignore cannon at you.

This is Pacitalian News Network's Niles Parker reporting. The leader of the summit, President John Holtz of Holy Paradise, has just asked our PM the following.

"Now I don't believe we have met before. My name is President John Holtz. What is yours?"

To which our leader replied.

"My name is Timothy Ell, I am Prime Minister of the Capitalist Republic of Pacitalia, and of course, honoured to meet you all and to hold this wonderful discussion."

The two have taken their seats. More as it develops.

"Glad to meet you," replied President John Holtz.

I have arrived at convention along with my guards. Wonderfull country and place indeed. I just can't wait to express my ideas and possibly even establish trade relations with other countries.
Emperor has taken his seat and waits event to unfold.

Me too, Holy Emperor Torsg.

Barbarossa is being Gaurded by His Imperial Gruad and nine Battle Droids. The Human Gurads are armed with swords, AK-47's, and RPG's. The Droids are armed with Basters. HatariaTechs New Destroyer Droids are also in The Gurad.

TheLandThatHopeForgot will be love to attend the summit.

"Welcome, Emperor Barbarossa to Holy Paradise! Please forgive us for our attack against you. How is your country going along?" President John Holtz asked.

"This just in! TheLandThatHopeForgot will be sending a delagate to the summit! This is good news for the world's nations with capitalist economys." Sean Handdity announced.

"Welcome, Emperor Barbarossa to Holy Paradise! Please forgive us for our attack against you. How is your country going along?" President John Holtz asked.

"Just fighting a Nation called Nathan F, They Declared war on me for no reson and I am Invadeing their Nation, just to keep them from attacking Hataria with what Forces they have." said Barbarossa, "So? how do you like my Droids?"

President John Holtz then made a short speech before Karhid-Ali II did:

"Fellow capitalists! Recently many dangers have threatened our countries. Around the world, Communist rebellions have been taking place. Just today I heard that 2 major rebellions have begun in foreign lands. We have to set up a defense/alliance to keep our nations' ways intact. About 2 years ago a Communist rebellion started up in my country. It lead to a civil war. Fortunately, we were able to defeat the enemy and return to normalcy. Next time, we might not be so lucky though. That is why I started this summit: To preserve fair democracy and capitalism throughout the world! Thank you."

The Prime Minister would be pleased to know when it is his opportunity to speak to the delegates.

*applauds*

Wonderful speech, Mr. President. Thank you for your everlasting contributions to the world of capitalism.

"Very nice, Emperor. We are developing a laser rifle which can kill 10 men in one shot. I have heard of Nathan F attacking you, and, pardon my French, I think he's a load of crap. Please sit down and eat now. We have foods from around the world to please anyone's palate." President John Holtz replied.

Anyone can speak whenever they are ready.

*applauds*
Nice speech, President Holtz.
What an unfortunate past your nation has had, but together we can make future bright for capitalist countries. I'm suggesting that we use mild propaganda and teach values of our nations in schools. That way we might be able to prevent communist move forming.

"Yes it has been a bad one. In fact, right now the Holy Paradise Counter Terrorism Army is fighting terrorists in Northern Inkana. I have seen countries with worse pasts however." President Holtz replied.

Niles Parker, here with you on PNN.

The Prime Minister has risen and headed to the podium to speak.

"Good afternoon, fellow delegates.

"Currently, capitalism is, some would argue "on its way out." It is in fact, the opposite. Socialism and communism grow too, but not as much as our beautiful ideology does. In fact, capitalism is the strongest ideology in the world, because it combines prodigious amounts of civil rights with a strong economy, substantial military and good political freedoms. Capitalist countries are among the safest, smartest and most powerful in the world because of this. No other ideology can put all four of these major parts together under one roof like we can.

"This is why we have to band together to put down or at least slow the growth of radical left-wing socialism on this planet. Together, we are stronger than if we are trying to put down the problem by ourselves. Ten are stronger than one, one hundred even stronger.

"Socialists forget one thing. Capitalism can deliver on excellent education and health with good funding brought from the economy that powers the country. Socialist countries don't have this luxury, so their education systems are poorly-ranked on the world list. It's time we taught them a lesson, it's time they understand. Socialism is what's on the way out. Socialism must end.

"Thank you!"

The Prime Minister, of course, very excited about this summit, it is the first capitalist-economic summit in memory for him.

"To our host, Mr. President Holtz, the national dish of Pacitalia, Penne Capagatta, is wonderfully done. Compliments to the chef. Thank you again."

This is Aed MacArt of Home Front news, bringing you the live report of the Capitalist World Summit.

It seems the delegates from the Republic of Mac Cumhail have just arrived...there have been some excellent speeches so far, though it seems the Republican delegates are waiting to feel the waters out so far.

More as it develops.

Incerible speech Prime minister of Pacitalia.
I wholeheartly agree with you. Communism isn't the way to go because it contradicts with true human nature.

(applauds)

"Wonderful speech, Prime Minister, wonderful. And thank you for the compliments on the food. It is exquisite." President Holtz cheered.

Thank you all for the comments. Pacitalia and its people do have a few requests they wish to come out of this summit (see Pacitalia's national newspaper Repubblica Pacitalia, 17 September 2004, page C3), such as the following:

(1) League of Capitalist Nations
- the creation of a league of capitalist nations similar to that of the UN but with no formal or informal ties to it, with a rotating head council of seven nations.
- the countries that are members may choose to send their head of state as delegate, or someone from their own government.
- we can use the Capitalist World Summit (which will also rotate for location) as our annual major meeting, and have separate minor meetings if necessary.

(2) Treaty Agreement
- the creation of a treaty agreement that supports the military but also nurtures it to make sure we are powerful enough to put down any exterior threats from the left.

We do not expect both to be ratified, and we would certainly appreciate it if it was even considered. We would like at least one of the requests (please do not think of them as demands, we prefer not to be hostile) to be ratified as it stands.

Thank you very much.

President John then made another speech:


"As we have seen in our world's history, Communism only works in theory. When Karl Marx wrote the Manifesto Papers he was in a world without dictators, without ambition, without power. I have to say, for someone who is so well revered by many, that is so foolish. Communism would only work if humans didn't follow their nature: to be the at the top. There is a great difference between Marxist Communism and Russian Communism. In Marxist Communism, there are no social classes, everyone is equal. Everyone shares the power. In Russian Communism, the one that is more practiced, the government is nothing more then a shared dictatorship. They say that everyone is equal finaceally, racially, and in power. This is not true. In the Real world, the U.S.S.R. had many problems. Important members of the Communist Party received many benefits fianacally and in power. Most of the population lived in cramped apartments, went to poorly-ran schools, and barely had any money. So as you can see, Marxist Communism is impossible to practice as there will always be some lunatic who gains control over the entire nation and government and then turns the government into a Russian Communism. Thank you."

Thank you all for the comments. Pacitalia and its people do have a few requests they wish to come out of this summit (see Pacitalia's national newspaper Repubblica Pacitalia, 17 September 2004, page C3), such as the following:

(1) League of Capitalist Nations
- the creation of a league of capitalist nations similar to that of the UN but with no formal or informal ties to it, with a rotating head council of seven nations.
- the countries that are members may choose to send their head of state as delegate, or someone from their own government.
- we can use the Capitalist World Summit (which will also rotate for location) as our annual major meeting, and have separate minor meetings if necessary.

(2) Treaty Agreement
- the creation of a treaty agreement that supports the military but also nurtures it to make sure we are powerful enough to put down any exterior threats from the left.

We do not expect both to be ratified, and we would certainly appreciate it if it was even considered. We would like at least one of the requests (please do not think of them as demands, we prefer not to be hostile) to be ratified as it stands.

Thank you very much. This sounds like a good idea to me.

President John your words are so true.
I agree with your ideas Prime Minister of Pacitalia.
I'd like to mention again the importancy of preventing communist move forming in our nations.

Krehid-Ali II Takes the Podium

"Fellow Nations. My father once told me that: It dosen't matter if your communist or Capitalist, what really matters is how your people are treated. Right now in the world there are countless billions in suffering, both Capitalist and Communist. These are the real "issues" we must talk about. Not how we can "stop the Spread of Communism" or "Promote Capitalism" No, we must use our Industrial, and Economic might to help these suffering peoples. Yes, I agree Capitalism is a better system than Communism. Why? Because we have the freedom to change the World. Thank You."

"This is Zackary Bolings, reporting for the Tekanian National News Network. President Eric D. Williamson has just arrived, accompanied by his Secretary of Commerce, J.E.B. VanMetre. Member of the Tekanian National Libertarian Party.. It'll be interesting to hear him speak. Upcoming elections in Tekania have made this a massive summit, as he is running neck with the the Tekanian Constitutional Party runner, Stephen F. Trumbo... It'll be interesting to see how well this effects his polls back here in the Republic."

President John then said," I have found out that a country named Letila is trying to bring about a world revolution and make the world anarcho-communist. That is even worse then Russian Communism. That would mean no rules to prevent chaos. This country is a danger to the world and must be stopped!"

"Karhid-Ali II is right. This will be our main focus. I wanted a defense alliance to be set up as Communist nations are more trigger-fingered then capitalist nations." President John replied.

"Karhid-Ali II is right. This will be our main focus. I wanted a defense alliance to be set up as Communist nations are more trigger-fingered then capitalist nations." President John replied.
Thank you President John.

*applauds*

Great speeches, Mr. President Holtz and Mr. Sultan Krehid-Ali II.

I agree that we should help the less-fortunate Communist nations. But would you not agree that in some ways, we shouldn't help a country that caused their own problems?

"True, true. If we help however, the people will begin to realize how Communism has its disadvantages." replied President Holtz

*applauds*

Great speeches, Mr. President Holtz and Mr. Sultan Krehid-Ali II.

I agree that we should help the less-fortunate Communist nations. But would you not agree that in some ways, we shouldn't help a country that caused their own problems?
Yes, ceartain countries are an exception. *Cough*Christmas*cough*

*applauds*

Great speeches, Mr. President Holtz and Mr. Sultan Krehid-Ali II.

I agree that we should help the less-fortunate Communist nations. But would you not agree that in some ways, we shouldn't help a country that caused their own problems?

Think of the people of the nation, they have been mis-led down the wrong path by the state-sponsored propoganda which is neccesary in all communist nations to create the illusion of equality. Even the US gave the USSR grain shipments at the height of the cold war. Maybe by helping the populace they will see the light an throw off the yoke of communism.

Krehid-Ali II intresting speech.
In my opnion the personal freedoms of people matter actually more than type of goverment, but communism naturally restricts them so communist nation's people can never be truly free. It's always sad to see people that don't want to be free. This really is problem with some communist and fascists nations and we should prevent those ideals from forming on our nations.

Think of the people of the nation, they have been mis-led down the wrong path by the state-sponsored propoganda which is neccesary in all communist nations to create the illusion of equality. Even the US gave the USSR grain shipments at the height of the cold war. Maybe by helping the populace they will see the light an throw off the yoke of communism.
Thats what I was getting at.

Goodevening fellow capitalists. It is a pleasure for us in Tekania to speak before you.

For quite some time now, we have been in aggressive struggles with communist forces, both in our region, in the United Nations, and in the International Community in general. We and our fellow capitalist allies have managed to dominate our region. And next... my fellow capitalists... the world! For years communist have sat at our doors. Accosted our own people, attempted to conive and trick their way into our places of government and power. But our economies have stood against their onslaught, for countless ages. And we have gotten to see each communist regime fall to the progress, of the capitalist machine!

The war isn't over though. It has just begun. As the we battle harder and harder against the communism amongst the international community in general. But know this, we will prevail. We will keep pushing on. Capitalism forms progress unheard of in any other system. A progress fueled by the gifts, tallents, and hard work of our own, independent and free thinking peoples. Our GDP grown phenominally, each of our people's own average worth is high, and enjoy the ability to choose, and direct their own lives, by their own choices, by their very own hands.

Let's keep up our power and work, as the industries in our nation, operating, and competing with their own selves, shine the light and beakon of free market capitalism to the world. A light that scatters the comminist like roaches, fleeing from it's beacon of truth and individual freedom..... This is our generation, and our time... And we shall never relinguish it!

Imperial Germany wishes to send a delegate.

Our Chief Officer of Forgien Affairs is at the Feminany Conference, and our Chief Officer of Defence is at the Feminany Friendship Conference. So we'll send our last delegate, Dictator Otto von Hienkel Rommel. He'll fly in on our Dictatoral Airbus A380. We firmly believe in Capitalism. In the words of Winston Churchill: "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

I propose the five nations represented by us become the leaders of a capitalist league (not the same as the head council which may or may not have one or more of us on it).

Pacitalia, Holy Paradise, Inkana, Torsg and Wirraway?

I say this because we were the first five in the discussion and we seem to have the clearest ideas of what should and shouldn't be. I'm not saying the other nations don't have great ideas, but I think we should take control to ensure our destiny is met.

*applauds*
What a wonderfull speech Tekania. Your words speak the truth.
I agree with your proposal Prime Minister of Pacitalia, but we should also allow other nations to express themselves equally.

"Now lets focus on creating a Capitalist Defense Alliance. Here is my suggestions:


1.In the event any crisis startes in a member's country, the rest will come to help them.
2. Any country that is in the middle of a Communist uprising, the CDA will come to aid them.
3.Each member will also be trading partners with the rest.
4. No matter what though, we cannot invade a Communist country because of their politics. This is a defense alliance. We can, however, encourage capitalism revolutions.
5. Any Communist country in the middle of a capitalist uprising, we shall come to aid the uprising.
6. All members are allies, militaristically and economically." President Holtz suggested.

Goodevening fellow capitalists. It is a pleasure for us in Tekania to speak before you.

For quite some time now, we have been in aggressive struggles with communist forces, both in our region, in the United Nations, and in the International Community in general. We and our fellow capitalist allies have managed to dominate our region. And next... my fellow capitalists... the world! For years communist have sat at our doors. Accosted our own people, attempted to conive and trick their way into our places of government and power. But our economies have stood against their onslaught, for countless ages. And we have gotten to see each communist regime fall to the progress, of the capitalist machine!

The war isn't over though. It has just begun. As the we battle harder and harder against the communism amongst the international community in general. But know this, we will prevail. We will keep pushing on. Capitalism forms progress unheard of in any other system. A progress fueled by the gifts, tallents, and hard work of our own, independent and free thinking peoples. Our GDP grown phenominally, each of our people's own average worth is high, and enjoy the ability to choose, and direct their own lives, by their own choices, by their very own hands.

Let's keep up our power and work, as the industries in our nation, operating, and competing with their own selves, shine the light and beakon of free market capitalism to the world. A light that scatters the comminist like roaches, fleeing from it's beacon of truth and individual freedom..... This is our generation, and our time... And we shall never relinguish it!
(Applauds loudly)

4We can, however, encourage capitalism revolutions.
5. Any Communist country in the middle of a capitalist uprising, we shall come to aid the uprising.

No, we must let the uprisings run their course, so that the people can become capitalists themselves, if we intervene than it is us making the decisions, not them.

There was another country, Roach-Busters(my closest ally) Who also applied to come early. I suggest there are no leaders of the alliance, just members. For making leaders of the alliance sounds a lot like Communism.

I agree, except for the fifth point, Mr. President. If you could elaborate on that, please. I just don't want us to look like fools if the uprising fails.

And I see your point on the leaders part. I just think there should be a leader in this so we can be organized.

No, we must let the uprisings run their course, so that the people can become capitalists themselves, if we intervene than it is us making the decisions, not them. You are correct. This is only a rough draft remember.

"Now lets focus on creating a Capitalist Defense Alliance. Here is my suggestions:


1.In the event any crisis startes in a member's country, the rest will come to help them.
2. Any country that is in the middle of a Communist uprising, the CDA will come to aid them.
3.Each member will also be trading partners with the rest.
4. No matter what though, we cannot invade a Communist country because of their politics. This is a defense alliance. We can, however, encourage capitalism revolutions.
5. Any Communist country in the middle of a capitalist uprising, we shall come to aid the uprising.
6. All members are allies, militaristically and economically." President Holtz suggested.

Wirraway only has one issue with this list. We are heavily allied as is we would be most willing to come to another capitalist nation's aid in case of a communist inserrection or communist attack we cannot enter in a formal alliance as of yet. We would be most interested in economic partnerships though.

I agree with your suggestions Holtz, but we should be carefull when aiding countries in the middle of communist uprising as those communists might have ties to bigger nations and it could lead into war.
In my opnion we should aid all revolutionary capitalists around the world providing them with arms and food.

The revised CDA treaty:

1:Same
2.Same
3.Same
4.We cannot invade Communist countries unless we are provoked and we cannot encourage or support capitalist revolutions.
5. Taken out
6. Same

After reading the Wirraway delegate's comments, I see it best fits that we create two separate treaties, one for economic alliance and one of military alliance, so that all nations can sign either or both, and come out of this summit with at least something to say for it. If a country that only signed one at this summit wishes to sign the other, they can do so at any time.

Let us wait and see what happens after the summit. Then we can decide if or if not a defense alliance is needed. We are already allied economically and politically.

On several points....

1. I agree with the proposal of creating the defense alliance, with the proposed senior members.

2. I accept the conditions and responsibilities of the alliance, with one minor reservation....

3. I agree with the reservation of allowing capitalist revolutions to run their course. It is well documented that functional capitalism, much like functional democracy, only can stand firm and tall when those people have fought hard and earned it...... However, I will say that we can provide secondary aide for said revolutions, in the form of economic/commercial aide, and possible defense alliance work to prevent other nations outside of our alliance providing military aid to the communist regime... namely using our prospective navies and/or stellar fleets to blockade said nations and/or planets.

Like i said in my opnion it would be good idea to aid revolutionary capitalists.
I don't mean direct military aid or anything, but to provide them with arms and food.

Any more speeches?

I agree Tekania, that is a good idea.

Maybe we should adjourn for the day to report back to our advisors and to come up with possibly more ideas and requests? We've been at it for 90 minutes already and accomplished substantial amounts.

I agree. Here is the Capitalist Economic Alliance treaty:


1. All members are allowed to trade with each other.
2. Things that are illegal in one member, however, may not be traded with that country.
3. All members will come with economic aid if another member is in economic trouble.
4. We cannot trade with Communist countries.
5. We cannot interfere with two Communist countries trading with each other, but we can interfere when one capitalist country is trading with a Communist Country.

If you agree type "Yes to CEA" as soon as you agree with it in a post.

Here is the Capitalist Defense Alliance treaty:

1. All members will defend all capitalist country's from Communist countries' invading them or crush any Communist uprising in a capitalist country.
2. If one member has any crisis, the rest will come to that country's aid.
3. We cannot invade or fight any Communist country unless the alliance is threatened directly by that Communist country.
4. We cannot support capitalist revolutions militaristically, but economically we can.

If you agree type "Yes to CDA" as soon as you agree with it in a post.

Yes. I call the first day of the summit ajoured. You can still sign either treaties in this thread whenver you want too.

Yes to CEA
Yes to CDA

I Emperor Torsg XXX of Torsg Empire have signed both treaties.

excellent. oh and yes to CEA and yes to CDA

members of the CEA:
Holy Paradise
Torsg
Great Sixth Reich
Tekania
Wirraway
Mac Cumhail
Inkana
Pacitalia
Roach-Busters
Maslawyia
Borman Empire

members of the CDA:
Holy Paradise
Torsg
Great Sixth Reich
Tekania
Mac Cumhail
Inkana
Pacitalia
Roach-Busters
Maslawyia
Wirraway
Borman Empire

Yes to CEA.
Yes to CDA.

Yea to CEA
Yea to CDA

My economic advisor and I express concern over article three of the CEA. If we're capitalist, we have money so we're not going to need any aid really, ever. It's nice to have that there though. Also with that point, it seems that it's a little too broad. It doesn't say just for capitalists, so does that mean the option to help left-wing countries is included in this treaty?

I am inclined to sign both after you enlighten me.

yes to CEA

45 ships have been sent to trade oil, iron ore, machinery, and edible crops with all members. My country has outlawed all drugs so no tobacco. Adult novelites and videos are also outlawed.

Tahar Joblis strongly condemns these treaties as providing just cause for alarm, particularly clause 2 of section 5 of the CEA treaty, clause 2 of section 1 and clause 2 of section 4 of the CDA treaty.

[5. We cannot interfere with two Communist countries trading with each other, but we can interfere when one capitalist country is trading with a Communist Country.]

We would wish to see this replaced with "one CEA country," rather than "one capitalist country." Otherwise, this stands as a potential threat against some of our traditional allies and possibly ourselves, depending on the interpretations of the vague terms "communist," and "capitalist," and will therefore have to consider any CEA country to be a direct threat to us and our allies.

1. All members will defend all capitalist country's from Communist countries' invading them or crush any Communist uprising in a capitalist country.

We find the assertion of economics forcibly over democracy abhorrent. Promising to crush all political movements that do not conform to an economic ideal is an antidemocratic move that we cannot approve of. If the CDA is to retain this clause, we will treat it as an alliance with the collective intention to destroy democracy around the globe.

4. We cannot support capitalist revolutions militaristically, but economically we can.

Tahar Joblis is unlikely to be alone in holding CDA nations directly responsible for supporting "capitalist revolutions" in an "economic" fashion in such cases as they do. With tacit approval of this tactic written into the CDA charter, we will consider any such actions as being approved by the CDA as a whole and consider the CDA accountable for such. We would wish to see the simple tactful removal of such clause from the CDA charter.

My economic advisor and I express concern over article three of the CEA. If we're capitalist, we have money so we're not going to need any aid really, ever. It's nice to have that there though. Also with that point, it seems that it's a little too broad. It doesn't say just for capitalists, so does that mean the option to help left-wing countries is included in this treaty?

I am inclined to sign both after you enlighten me. The third article of the CEA treaty is a just in case article. Also capitalism includes left-wing countries as long as they do not practice Communism or Socialism.

My economic advisor and I express concern over article three of the CEA. If we're capitalist, we have money so we're not going to need any aid really, ever. It's nice to have that there though. Also with that point, it seems that it's a little too broad. It doesn't say just for capitalists, so does that mean the option to help left-wing countries is included in this treaty?

I am inclined to sign both after you enlighten me.

I would say no, depending on your definition of "left-wing" (since this is a capitalist alliance, and the members are capitalists, the closest to left-wing in the alliance is libertarianist nationstates as my own {which are "left" compared to present conservatism})

The Republic of Mac Cumhail would like to announce its support for both treaties.

Yea, yea.

Yes to both.

Tahar Joblis strongly condemns these treaties as providing just cause for alarm, particularly clause 2 of section 5 of the CEA treaty, clause 2 of section 1 and clause 2 of section 4 of the CDA treaty.

[5. We cannot interfere with two Communist countries trading with each other, but we can interfere when one capitalist country is trading with a Communist Country.]

We would wish to see this replaced with "one CEA country," rather than "one capitalist country." Otherwise, this stands as a potential threat against some of our traditional allies and possibly ourselves, depending on the interpretations of the vague terms "communist," and "capitalist," and will therefore have to consider any CEA country to be a direct threat to us and our allies.

1. All members will defend all capitalist country's from Communist countries' invading them or crush any Communist uprising in a capitalist country.

We find the assertion of economics forcibly over democracy abhorrent. Promising to crush all political movements that do not conform to an economic ideal is an antidemocratic move that we cannot approve of. If the CDA is to retain this clause, we will treat it as an alliance with the collective intention to destroy democracy around the globe.

4. We cannot support capitalist revolutions militaristically, but economically we can.

Tahar Joblis is unlikely to be alone in holding CDA nations directly responsible for supporting "capitalist revolutions" in an "economic" fashion in such cases as they do. With tacit approval of this tactic written into the CDA charter, we will consider any such actions as being approved by the CDA as a whole and consider the CDA accountable for such. We would wish to see the simple tactful removal of such clause from the CDA charter.
The treaty is not a cause for alarm. We only block said trades when we believe they are trading to aid Communist countries in war, and we usually won't if the Communist country is defending themselves. We do not aid in invasions.

OOC: BTW, I follow the 3D system of political mapping, rather than the classic "left"-"right" system {since it in no way carries the scope of all forms} the 3D Matrix is made up of "economic", "social", and "governmental" axis.... a classic conservative is a "economic" rightist, "social" rightist, "governmental" leftist.... libertarian is "right", "left", "left"... socialism is( at least classically ), "left", "left", "left", Communism is "left", "right", "right", and Fascist is "right", "right", "right"... think of "left" and "right" compared to "traditional" government.... traditional government is authoritarian, so authoritarian regimes are "right" and democratic systems are "left"..... traditionally economics have been "open" (sic. like fuedalism, capitol control) so capitolism is "right", and 'socialism (form)' is left.... in social agenda, typically people have no rights..... so open social structures (free societies) are "left" and closed, controled societies are "right"....

We have send 30 ships to trade fine Torsg Arms(mainly small arms and ammunitions) and TorsgMobile(mainly cars and related products) goods, as well as fine Torsgian meat and other agricultural products straight from invidual farmers.

Thank you for elaborating on this.

Tahar Joblis, your comments are appreciated, but if we want to protect capitalism, the definition has to be as broad as it is, not just for CEA/CDA countries like you have requested.

Yes to CEA.
Yes to CDA.

Pacitalia is proud to be a founding signatory of the Capitalist Defence Alliance and Capitalist Economic Alliance.

One extra thing - tomorrow may we consider pooling ourselves into one large region of all-capitalist countries to better protect our interests?

Maybe.

One extra thing - tomorrow may we consider pooling ourselves into one large region of all-capitalist countries to better protect our interests?

I think that is good idea.

bump

hey RB.

That may be a possibility....

hey RB.

Hello. :)

Indeed. I think that way we won't have to keep creating new topics here and we can do our business and deliberations in semi-privacy.

Thank you for your time today. It has been a pleasure. I shall now leave for my suite.

Communist and Socialist Nations are the danger of The 21st Centruy, They threaten to over throw our way of Life and inslave our nations in a Nightmare Government. Nations like Whittier, Canan and other Communist and Socialist Nations are trying to rule the world. The Threat of Communism and Socialism must be stoped, anyway we have to. I say we put a Embargo on all Communist and Socialist Nations till this threat is Gone forever.

no, there are too many. It can't be done.

Communist and Socialist Nations are the danger of The 21st Centruy, They threaten to over throw our way of Life and inslave our nations in a Nightmare Government. Nations like Whittier, Canan and other Communist and Socialist Nations are trying to rule the world. The Threat of Communism and Socialism must be stoped, anyway we have to. I say we put a Embargo on all Communist and Socialist Nations till this threat is Gone forever.

An "Embargo" from a country that has no exports? Sounds funny...

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Imperial Germany will also trade with CEA members. We will trade with multiple oil tankes, and multiple ships containing weaponary (our main industry), high-tech products such as computers, and German food and drink (that includes the famous German Beer and Wine!).



-Otto von Hienkel Rommel, Dictator of Imperial Germany.

Bump.

Imperial Germany also wishes to note that is it illegal to transport tobacco, adult novelites, adult videos and images, and non-medical drugs. However, weapons are allowed. All ships must be inspected by Imperial Germany Custums Officals.

The Constitutional Republic of Tekania is Libertarian in nature... The only restrictions we have are on medicinal drugs, which must go through a testing phase by the Tekanian Federal Department of Medicine. However, in the spirit of this alliance, we will accept medicines from other CDEA members, who possess similar Departments, provided that testing data is sent the the TFDM.

In addition, the Republic wishes to invite all CDEA member's leaders to the the Christening ceremony of the SSBGN(X)-1 (Experimental- Submersible Nuclear Powered Battleship)... to be named "Neptune" schedueled for Sept. 25th, 2004.

President John Holtz will be there.

I'd like to join both of your capitalist alliances, HP. What were they both called again? :confused:

don't worry i already put you on the lists. They are the CDA and the CEA.

Tekania i likely will be there. As for trades our nation doesn't have any regulations almost everything is free to trade here even drugs like Heroin. Exception is heavy military hardware. By heavy military hardware i mean cannons and ammunition over 50mm as well as rockets,bombs,tanks with functioning cannon etc. Those kind of stuff may not be sold for civilians unless they have legal permits for that kind of stuff.

don't worry i already put you on the lists. They are the CDA and the CEA.

Thanks. :)

The newly appointed Minister of Foerign Affairs, the Treasury, and Heir to the Inkanan Throne Krehid-Ali II will be there.

Wonderful to see so many people joining us.

Pacitalian International Trade Act of 1991 (1995, 2003, 2004) states:

- All foreign goods are submitted to thorough checks by the Pacitalian Coast Guard (PCG), Pacitalian Drug and Substance Interception Agency (PDSIA), Pacitalian Customs & Trade (PCT) and the Foreign Affairs department of the Government of Pacitalia upon their embarkment at a port in Pacitalian territory.
- A maximum of 300,000 nautical tonnes of trade goods can be brought into dock on one ship.
- PDSIA, formerly a branch of PCT, is responsible for most of the cargo screening at the ports of Pacitalia in a joint operation with PCT and PCG. The PDSIA uses VACIS mobile gamma ray scanning vehicles for on-dock terminal use. Pacitalia is the first country to use this technology. The PDSIA’s objective is to screen 100 per cent of the container traffic leaving and entering Pacitalian territory by rail or sea for contraband.

- It is unlawful for foreign ships to bring in the following.

Contraband - soft drugs [over 1000kg], hard drugs, alcohol [over 10,000 metric litres], weaponry [excluding CEDA members, who can bring in up to 25,000kg of weaponry at a time], ammunition [again excludes CEDA members, who can bring 50,000kg of ammunition at a time - includes incendiary ammunition like grenades and tactical explosive devices]

Paraphenalia - drug use tools, adult material and/or other items that may promote illicit activity in Pacitalia.

Illegal aliens - persons without Pacitalian citizenship, proper travel documents or temporary citizenship visas. Includes animal life not licensed to be permitted to Pacitalia.

Foreign flora - Plant life not native to Pacitalia (includes seeds, and soil that may have come in contact with the illicit plant.)

===

- PCT and PDSIA must have one (1) hard copy of the ship's manifest before it is permitted to enter a port.

- The country of registration for that ship is responsible for any actions or problems that may occur with the ship, ship's cargo or customs clearance.

- All other products and imports are permitted as long as, in total weight, they do not violate the maximum tonnage restriction posted above.

- All weapons and/or ammunition are delivered immediately to a secure holding zone on site until they are thoroughly checked. They will then be delivered to respective safe points (places on military bases that cannot be infiltrated without proper access codes and relief of the high security system).

- Non-CEDA members can apply for permits allowing them to import up to 1,000kg of weaponry and/or ammunition.

- CEDA members can apply for one-time permits allowing them to import more than the limit of 1000kg of soft drugs (marijuana and tobacco) upon entry. They must apply for these licenses at least two weeks before the ship leaves the departure port.

- Medicines are permitted but they will be extensively screened by the PDSIA.

- The ports of Pacitalia reserve the right at any time to disallow a ship from embarking dockside if they feel suspicious products or activities are (occurring) onboard.

- The ports of Pacitalia and the Government of Pacitalia reserve the right at any time to arrest crew members for questioning if a ship is found to contain illicit and/or illegal materials.

Thank you.

===

Ships registered to Pacitalia:

- 7,895 freighters
- 474 oil tankers
- 10,286 small class steerage

Total safe possible carry weight: 5.373 billion metric tonnes

===

Our Defense Minister, Eleftherios Venizelos Jr., will be there along with myself to see the christening of SSBGN(X)-1. We look forward to it.

===

I also invite all CEDA members to Timiocato, the nation's capital, to see a demonstration of our new high-security infrared anti-contraband screening system on 1 October 2004.

=========================

Footnotes:

Hard drugs are defined as crack cocaine, rock cocaine, cocaine, heroin, "speed", LSD, PCP, "acid", crystal meth, methamphetamines in general, and all other illegally-imported drugs that are not for medicinal purposes. Marijuana and tobacco are the only substances excluded from the "hard drugs" category. You may not at any time bring hard drugs into Pacitalia.

Trade Act revised 18 September 2004 in accordance with the inclusion of Pacitalia in the Capitalist Economic and Defence Alliance.

Parthia would like to sign "Yes to the CEA and CDA."

Omicron Alpha Government Inc. will not be sending representatives, nor EDOs. We see no true capitalists attending.

The Director
Omicron Alpha Government Incorporated
"Working for the profits of the consumers"

I would like to note Pacitalia is a "capitalist paradise". That is good enough for me. You gotta spend money to make money.

Hataria will give all Nations Meeting here some Battle Droids.

Going to dissect this, just out of passing interest and a lack of better things to do.

I agree. Here is the Capitalist Economic Alliance treaty:


1. All members are allowed to trade with each other.
Seems simple enough. Why you need to specify this when it's implied by the very nature of a trade treaty is lost upon me, though.

You might want, instead, to discuss, say, *free* trade, i.e. trade with no tariffs or a minimum of tariffs.
2. Things that are illegal in one member, however, may not be traded with that country.
Again, seems very simple. Since each member's laws would ban the import of certain things, though, it seems that this, as the previous clause, is already covered.
3. All members will come with economic aid if another member is in economic trouble.
Good call. Any details, though? How much aid? What kind of aid? Is it governments that do it, or do the governments put out contract tenders for the private sector to do it? How is this handled?
4. We cannot trade with Communist countries.
Why? What sense does it make to limit your options? Admittedly, most Communist countries in NationStates already ban trade with capitalist countries, so they've already eliminated themselves. But there's going to be a few that accept trade from capitalist countries. Think of the Soviet Union. Their domestic crap was, well, crap. Or China - a nearly untapped market of a billion people. If you can make it profitable to sell to such a market despite the inevitable regulatory hurdles that must be dealt with, by all means you should be allowed to do it. For that matter, you might even slowly change that country for the better - the 'economic revolution' you discuss under the CDA treaty. Capitalism is all about freedom - don't restrict it. Embrace it and allow it to spread.
5. We cannot interfere with two Communist countries trading with each other, but we can interfere when one capitalist country is trading with a Communist Country.
Um... right. If clause 4 made no sense, this one makes even less. It's none of your business who other people trade with. If you want to arrange for the CDA or whatever group to embargo a particular nation, go ahead, but it's good to have a logical reason for it (like, say, that country attacking you.) first. But beyond that, it's between the two countries involved.

Another problem is that you don't define interference. Do you mean undercutting prices? Or do you range right up to assassinating sales reps and piracy against that nation's freighters? You've given yourself way too much latitude here.

Furthermore, this clause doesn't restrict the interference to CEA members either, meaning that your treaty apparently claims the right to do things that will, more likely than not, get the lot of you slapped down like little bitches by some more powerful country you decide to 'interfere' with. For the record, Menelmacar considers economic terrorism an act of war, and in comparatively extreme cases this would qualify.


If you agree type "Yes to CEA" as soon as you agree with it in a post.

Here is the Capitalist Defense Alliance treaty:

1. All members will defend all capitalist country's from Communist countries' invading them or crush any Communist uprising in a capitalist country.
Goodgood. However, as under the CEA treaty, details are always a helpful guide for this sort of thing.

2. If one member has any crisis, the rest will come to that country's aid.
Again, details help.

3. We cannot invade or fight any Communist country unless the alliance is threatened directly by that Communist country.
Good call, an explicit non-aggressive stance always helps.

4. We cannot support capitalist revolutions militaristically, but economically we can.
Which almost always requires trading with them by some means, which you banned. Bit of a problem, that.


If you agree type "Yes to CDA" as soon as you agree with it in a post.
Hope this helped. Game on.

Hataria will give all Nations Meeting here some Battle Droids.

No godmoders allowed in the alliance.

===

Thank you Menelmacar for the comments, but I think this is just us trying to reinforce what is implied by international law. That's all. Definitely glad this was a rough draft of the treaties, though, since all the loopholes you picked out were things we should have seen ourselves. I appreciate that you took the time to pick around.

Its time for Day 2 of the summit!

Going to dissect this, just out of passing interest and a lack of better things to do.


Seems simple enough. Why you need to specify this when it's implied by the very nature of a trade treaty is lost upon me, though.

You might want, instead, to discuss, say, *free* trade, i.e. trade with no tariffs or a minimum of tariffs.

Again, seems very simple. Since each member's laws would ban the import of certain things, though, it seems that this, as the previous clause, is already covered.

Good call. Any details, though? How much aid? What kind of aid? Is it governments that do it, or do the governments put out contract tenders for the private sector to do it? How is this handled?

Why? What sense does it make to limit your options? Admittedly, most Communist countries in NationStates already ban trade with capitalist countries, so they've already eliminated themselves. But there's going to be a few that accept trade from capitalist countries. Think of the Soviet Union. Their domestic crap was, well, crap. Or China - a nearly untapped market of a billion people. If you can make it profitable to sell to such a market despite the inevitable regulatory hurdles that must be dealt with, by all means you should be allowed to do it. For that matter, you might even slowly change that country for the better - the 'economic revolution' you discuss under the CDA treaty. Capitalism is all about freedom - don't restrict it. Embrace it and allow it to spread.

Um... right. If clause 4 made no sense, this one makes even less. It's none of your business who other people trade with. If you want to arrange for the CDA or whatever group to embargo a particular nation, go ahead, but it's good to have a logical reason for it (like, say, that country attacking you.) first. But beyond that, it's between the two countries involved.

Another problem is that you don't define interference. Do you mean undercutting prices? Or do you range right up to assassinating sales reps and piracy against that nation's freighters? You've given yourself way too much latitude here.

Furthermore, this clause doesn't restrict the interference to CEA members either, meaning that your treaty apparently claims the right to do things that will, more likely than not, get the lot of you slapped down like little bitches by some more powerful country you decide to 'interfere' with. For the record, Menelmacar considers economic terrorism an act of war, and in comparatively extreme cases this would qualify.

Goodgood. However, as under the CEA treaty, details are always a helpful guide for this sort of thing.

Again, details help.

Good call, an explicit non-aggressive stance always helps.

Which almost always requires trading with them by some means, which you banned. Bit of a problem, that.

Hope this helped. Game on.Thanks for the tips. I will try to revise the treaty whenever someone in the alliance gets confused. To answer your question about economic aid, whatever is needed will be provided to that country.

day 2 is about to begin!

We know we are a bit late but we are a capitalist based country that bases itself strongly on its economic principles. May we join this alliance/conference?

Secretary to the Finance Minister

sure

OOC: Where do I go what do i do?

To answer your question about economic aid, whatever is needed will be provided to that country.

What an excellent sentiment, to provide mutual aid to those in need, without regard for profit or price. Yes, an excellent sentiment indeed, one that any right thinking socialist would happily endorse. The Coalition of Anti Capitalist Economies is based upon the same principle, of providing whatever is needed to our allies, which is somewhat ironic, given the context of this message. Perhaps it is time to reassess one's values.

Dmitri Ovynov
Minister of Politics
SeOCC

What is the agenda for day two?

I'm here but don't expet too much out of me. I used up all my energy fighting communism.

Good call. Any details, though? How much aid? What kind of aid? Is it governments that do it, or do the governments put out contract tenders for the private sector to do it? How is this handled?


Easy, no restriction to the amount. And no restrictions on how the one assists the other. (We are capitalist countries you know.)


Another problem is that you don't define interference. Do you mean undercutting prices? Or do you range right up to assassinating sales reps and piracy against that nation's freighters? You've given yourself way too much latitude here.

Furthermore, this clause doesn't restrict the interference to CEA members either, meaning that your treaty apparently claims the right to do things that will, more likely than not, get the lot of you slapped down like little bitches by some more powerful country you decide to 'interfere' with. For the record, Menelmacar considers economic terrorism an act of war, and in comparatively extreme cases this would qualify.

It doesn't need to. How the CDEA chooses to 'interfere' will be based off of our decisions on how to handle the situation, should it arrise. It's generic because it is supposed to be. It gives us the ability to decide how to act in a given situation, with parties concerned. I'm sure it'll bulk out more, once situations have arrisen allowing the CDEA to formulate policy.


Which almost always requires trading with them by some means, which you banned. Bit of a problem, that.


No, we banned trading with Communist countries, not economic support to capitalist revolutionary governments in the same nation. It's a simple act of recognizing the capitalist revolutionary group as a government and arranging and providing aid for the revolutionaries. And allowing the CDEA the ability to blockade the in-power communist government.

Sorry I've been gone. It had to to church. Church is more important. Anyway, Day 2's agenda is to:

1. Tell everyone of any events that might concern the CDA or CEA.
2. Suggest ideas for what our first defense would be.
3. Yesterday's agendas.

Oh and thanks Tekania for clearing up what the treaty means.

President Holtz arrived at the center in his transport to wait for the rest.

Wirraway has decided that upon further review we would like to enter in the CDA as well. Capitalist nations must fight to-gether against the spectre of Communism.

Sorry for being late but we will send John Grok son of the PM of Jackdonia!

I will enter your name onto the list, Wirraway.

bump

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cough*bump*cough

President john, would you like to kick off today's summit?

OOC:Sure.

IC: President John Holtz stepped up to the podium. "I declare the day 2 of the summit underway!" he announced.

bump

again bump

Emperor walks in and greets President Holtz.
After greetings he takes seat, waiting event to unfold.

President Holtz again walks up to the podium and makes a very short speech:

Today is the 2nd day in our summit. We have made great progress over the past day. Already there is more then 7 members of each alliance made yesterday. Now does anyone have any recent information that might concern the CDA or CEA?

Wirraway is ejection communists from his african colony, does this concearn us?

"I have some information that might concern us. The Communist International has been looking for new members, most likely because of the formation of the CDA and CEA. However, I do not believe they are doing such to mass up allies and attack this alliance." President Holtz announced.

I do not want this to come to cold war

Wirraway is ejection communists from his african colony, does this concearn us?

I am ejecting those filthy pinkos from my entire empire.

The Communist Internationals could be planning a cold war.

Wirraway is ejection communists from his african colony, does this concearn us?
"Yes, that is important as he is a member of our alliance. He has the right to do so as it doesn't say in the CDA treaty that a member cannot eject communists as they wish. In fact, I'd encourage it." President Holtz replied.

"Don't worry my friends, a cold war will not come into the spotlight. I just wanted to announce what they are doing." President Holtz assured.

In my opnion we really shouldn't concern us with private matters of our members. In my opnion he can eject whatever people he wants, that isn't really concern for our alliance.

We are delighted to send the honourable President of the federal Dutch Nations, Dr. Verstappen. He will be attending with 5 bodyguards who are to remain at his side at all times.

"However the chance of a cold war brings me to our other agenda: Preparing a defense. I think we should all pool in some money and develop a CDA Anti-Nuclear defense system. Who agrees?" President Holtz asked.

If we find a way to create an effective SDI-system.
I'll cladly support it.

"Also we need much larger nations also to help protect our alliance. We need ones like Automagfreek." President Holtz announced.

"However the chance of a cold war brings me to our other agenda: Preparing a defense. I think we should all pool in some money and develop a CDA Anti-Nuclear defense system. Who agrees?" President Holtz asked.
my economy is in a slump, so I'm not spending much, that means I have a pile of Ankarnas wasting away, I would gladly help.

"We can help your country's economy, Kerhid-Ali II, if you wish." President Holtz replied.

I agree that we need larger nations to protect this alliance.
Our nations might be economially as good as some bigger nations, but we still lack military manpower.

I agree that we need larger nations to protect this alliance.
Our nations might be economially as good as some bigger nations, but we still lack military manpower.
"Exactly." President Holtz replied.

"What I need all of you to do, is TG large nations and invite them to join. But be careful. If you TG a Communist nation, things might turn for the worst." President John commanded.

"We can help your country's economy, Kerhid-Ali II, if you wish." President Holtz replied.
"How?"

"How?"
foreign aid, trade cargo for free, etc.

foreign aid, trade cargo for free, etc.
Okay!
OCC: I invited Tokarev(pop: 1.7 billion) to join the alliances.

OOC: Excellent

IC: 500 Trade Cogs left Holy Paradise City to Inkana. They carried oil, iron ore, manufactured goods, and produce. One ship carried a half billion dollars in foreign aid.

Thank you, my ally! In return my companies will start work on a new anti-missile defense system for all CDA nations.

No problem.

I suggest a multi-national company. To produce anything the alliance might need, that way the cost is shared.

Okay. Tomorrow we'll discuss that. I declare day 2 of the Capitalist World Summit over.

?....It started? What did we discuss?

?....It started? What did we discuss?
We discussed recent events that might concern the CDA, defense plans. Not much else happened.

There has been a terrorist issue in my homeland. I will have to exit from this conference for a couple of hours and return later. If you could fill me in on the day's events, that would be fantastic.

Thank you.

There has been a terrorist issue in my homeland. I will have to exit from this conference for a couple of hours and return later. If you could fill me in on the day's events, that would be fantastic.

Thank you.
Okay um, we discussed events that might concern the CDA, we discussed a defense plan, and then the day was ended.

Thank you for the information, sir.

Day 3 will begin at 3:00 PM.

Ok.

OCC: Seems like it didn't begin ?

lol guess not, HE, you wanna just have it with the two of us as a private meeting?

I believe he meant 3.00 his time.

OOC: Is this thread alive ?

The Prime Minister of Anubisyrria extends his apologies for not being present at the Capitalist Summit, but has strong ties with Prime Minister Ell of Pacitalia and has conferred with him regarding the CDA and CEA Treaties. The PM of Anubisyrria agree to both Treaties and would be most delighted to participate in the next Capitalist Summit.