NationStates Jolt Archive

How many diffirent earths are there? I lost count. Five or six I believe. The concept of multiple earths is totally flawed. Earth I (RL) is the only real earth. Ok, earth II makes lots of RP's easier but III, IV, V and VI are just ridiculous. Why? The answer is simple.

Nation X claimed Russia in earth II. Nation Y claimed Russia in earth III. Both can't get along with each other and there's war. Russia vs Russia. Now that's something special. Nation Z who claimed China in earth III is allied with nation X but not with Y so X and Z attack Y. But earth II China is already claimed by nation A in earth II who is allied with nation Y. Still following me? So now we have earth II Russia and China vs earth III Russia and China. What is the point in that and how is that possible? There's only one nation of each on one planet. RP flexibility you say but I have some very diffirent thoughts about that.

Another example. Nation K, nation L are at war with each other in earth I. K owns America, L Canada. K fights L, L fights K. Nation H from earth II decides to ally himself with L who owns America in Earth II. Now we have America vs Canada and America vs America this is simple impossible. Same situation diffirent names and this is how it goes. How can you get troops there when you own America already?

What is the conclusion?

STOP WITH THE EARTHS ALREADY.

Not only the whole II forum is clogged with spam about it, it's also very confusing to see 6 nations who have nations already claimed by others. No I am not going to keep track of everything that happens in the earth threads. How can you start wars with people when parts of the earth are already taken by others. The only earth I recognize is earth I. And that's it. Nation P owns the Balkan and nation Q too. HOW CAN THEY ATTACK EACH OTHER WHEN THEY OWN EXACTLY THE SAME? It's unrealistic.

I know there are people who think about this exactly the same way as I do. Don't be afraid of all the people coming in and to flame/harass/sass me, I don't give a damn. Multiple earths is not possible.

If people can answer basic questions like:

1) How can nations who own the same attack each other?
2) Nations on a diffirent earth attack each other?
3) Ally yourself with nations on a diffirent planet (obviously the land he claimed is probably owned by someone else)
4) Why is all the lame-ass spam needed?

Then I'll recognize the earths and shut up about this subject.

i agree totally, the only possibly positive thing about all these URFS is it gives someting for the STATOS to munch over and argue about.

URFS SUK

Nicely stated.

The problem is with players who wish to identify with existing nations - I prefer to create my own nation (after all - Max worked so hard so we could all do just that).

I do own a RL nation - the small island of Niue. But that's just so I could have something that people wanted to fight me over.

I prefer to think of the NS world as being about the size of Jupiter, though solid and habitable for humans. Thus - region X is a vast distance from region Y...given that there are well over 100,000 nations, with populations above RL's, we'd need a pretty big world for everyone to fit.

The thing I dislike about these claims, is how implausible it is . Look at it from a different angle and see what i mean.

Thread Title: Automagfreek Two!

Hey guys! Alright, I created Automagfreek Two because I felt than the first Automagfreek was already too full, and only older nations controlled it. Anyone can claim any part of Automagfreek two they want, as long as their claims are reasonable.

Thread Title: Automagfreek Three!

Omfg Automagfreek filled up fast when I claimed it! Ok, here's a thread for more people who want parts of Automagfreek. They shouldn't have to be limited to roleplaying their nations. Its always nice to own a Automagfreek, do some anti-terror rp's, etc. Similar to Automagfreek Two, Automagfreek Three is fine to claim as long as the claims are reasonable. This time, only one nation per ns nation!

Thread title: Automagfreek Fou...

[OOC: I decided upon a simple way to deal with all the Earths. I simply don't recognize anything other than the NS Earth. I don't pay attention to the Earth 3, Earth IV or any other stuff. If it's not the NS Earth that Sarzonia is on, it doesn't exist.

I started to see something happening as soon as there was an Earth 3.]

I renamed my Earth IV Terra Incognedia because Whittier Stole the name Earth IV.

[OOC: I decided upon a simple way to deal with all the Earths. I simply don't recognize anything other than the NS Earth. I don't pay attention to the Earth 3, Earth IV or any other stuff. If it's not the NS Earth that Sarzonia is on, it doesn't exist.

I started to see something happening as soon as there was an Earth 3.]

Amen, man. Such is the beauty of being a future tech nation out of Sol; I don't have to deal with that Earth IV crap.

I don't recognize any fancy other earth's because it is a stupid idea. Just keep up with the infinite universe overlaps. That makes things easier, and doesn't force people to ignore the other earths when declaring war on them.

One earth is enough, whether it be infinitely large, or just an infinite alternate universes all in the same place.

No one ever said that the physics of NS earth had to make sense. We can have quadrillions of people on the planet, and it still wouldn't seem all that crowded.

Just let the ideas that already exist slide.

(Whippersnappers.)

I don't understand any of the Earths, even the first one. It's like somebody got the Earth, inflated it so that it was larger and started drawing in new areas alongside the real places. There are people who claim to be nations taken from RL, who even exist in the same place, and there are nations such as my own which live in totally fictional places (Omicron Alpha not appearing on any maps of this planet that I have ever seen).
How can a fictional Earth and a replica Earth both combine into one Earth?!?! Ah, of course. The nature of freeform RP is that there is no definite ruling on such a matter. It's almost as if it's designed to confuse people...

I understand why there's earth I. NS takes place on earth one and why shouldn't you take the nations you want? The other earths however are LOGICALLY impossible. Phsyicial realism in NS has been set aside ages ago already...

The Multiverse theory, man!

People were taking land long before RL nation claims(aka earth 1). Earth two just set off a catalyst of the others, though...

when people deny the earth thing has gone out of hand then they need to have their heads checked.

Holy Panooly, the problem with only recongizing Earth I is this.

There are far more nations than can possibly fit in Earth I. Then if all the countries and such are taken, and nations still want a homeland, then what would they do?

Thats why I believe in multiple Earths. So everyone has a chance to claim some Earth landmass rather than "Too fucking bad, I got the claim way back in 2002 or 2003. HAHAHAHAHA" attitude.

Also, multiple Earths IS possible. Have you ever watched Sliders TV show? If not, here's some links to info about it.

http://www.tvtome.com/Sliders/

http://www.cyberpursuits.com/heckifiknow/sliders/

http://vzone.virgin.net/g.scully/a/SLIDERSwelc.htm

So a TV show says its possible then it's possible? Good grief, I know a few good ones too... I don't recognize any of the earths except I. Why? Earth II to infinity killed the creative RP nation creation which
makes NS cool.

So a TV show says its possible then it's possible? Good grief, I know a few good ones too... I don't recognize any of the earths except I. Why? Earth II to infinity killed the creative RP nation creation which
makes NS cool.

Earth I is filled already. More nations deserve to claim some lands in Earth as a good point of reference.

Besides, the theory of parallel universes is pratically sound. Universes where people did the opposite thing as they do in our universe... like if you were dating someone...

You propose to your finance.

She says no. (Our universe)

She says yes. (Creates a parallel universe with you being married to her).

This would create 2 quite similiar Earths. The similiarity would diverge farther and farther apart as time goes by. You have kids in the alternate universe, then grandchildren, and so forth, which affects events and such in that universe.


On the other hand, take one Earth.

An event happens in it. It causes a chain reaction, which would do the following:

Our Real Life Earth: Incan people remain primitive and get ruined by the Spanish.

Parallel Earth: Incan people grow advanced at the same rate as Europeans. Then there'd be a modern Incan nation.

Europeans wouldn't have been able to set up the 13 colonies, and New England wouldn't exist. The USA wouldn't exist.


Things like that is possible. Some Earths would have people and the such develop very differently than other Earths.

Earth I is filled already.


OOC: A vast majority of RPers on this site ignore RL nation claims. The way we see it, NS is it's own seperate reality, regardless of the fact that there are over a hundred thousand nations.

NS 'Earth' (whatever it may be called) would proportionally be way larger than Jupiter, so I highly doubt we're going to 'run out of room' anywhere.

In short, RL nation claims are stupid because there are another 4 dozen players who also claim to own it. When you start talking about seperate Earths and multiverses, those of us who don't RP that stuff can safely say that anyone who does is basically ignored. Hence why I renounced my claim to Greece, because I got tired of arguing with dozens of players that also wanted to own Greece. Not to mention there is a region 'Greece', and plenty of Greek nations in the region of 'Eurpoe'. There's severl hundred nations all trying to RP Greece. Do we need a seperate Earth for each one of them?

Can't we just stick to 'NS Earth'?

Holy Panooly, the problem with only recongizing Earth I is this.

There are far more nations than can possibly fit in Earth I. Then if all the countries and such are taken, and nations still want a homeland, then what would they do?

Thats why I believe in multiple Earths. So everyone has a chance to claim some Earth landmass rather than "Too fucking bad, I got the claim way back in 2002 or 2003. HAHAHAHAHA" attitude.

Also, multiple Earths IS possible. Have you ever watched Sliders TV show? If not, here's some links to info about it.

http://www.tvtome.com/Sliders/

http://www.cyberpursuits.com/heckifiknow/sliders/

http://vzone.virgin.net/g.scully/a/SLIDERSwelc.htm
This is the problem, people dont realise that they can just 'make up' a nation. You can make your own map and really have as much land as you want. I dont see how you can claim RL territory unless you RP the nation you control (ie British Federation RPs as if he's the UK). Aren't the inhabiants going to be a bit annoyed? And in a real NS world they would be the pre-2002 nations, if you see what I mean. If you want more land, make up a continent, draw a map and let others join in colonising it. Dont make an "Earth IV CLOSED RP" and then invade the whole lot like Hataria did, as that's cheap and bordering on godmodded.

OOC: A vast majority of RPers on this site ignore RL nation claims. The way we see it, NS is it's own seperate reality, regardless of the fact that there are over a hundred thousand nations.

NS 'Earth' (whatever it may be called) would proportionally be way larger than Jupiter, so I highly doubt we're going to 'run out of room' anywhere.

In short, RL nation claims are stupid because there are another 4 dozen players who also claim to own it. When you start talking about seperate Earths and multiverses, those of us who don't RP that stuff can safely say that anyone who does is basically ignored. Hence why I renounced my claim to Greece, because I got tired of arguing with dozens of players that also wanted to own Greece. Not to mention there is a region 'Greece', and plenty of Greek nations in the region of 'Eurpoe'. There's severl hundred nations all trying to RP Greece. Do we need a seperate Earth for each one of them?

Can't we just stick to 'NS Earth'?

Good point, AMF.

However it helps to know where your nation is in relation to other nations. Suppose someone wants to declare war, have war games, trade routes, international air flights, fiber optic cables, etc. but they don't know where to send or set up said stuff.

If Nation A is located in Australia, and Nation B is located in India, then it would be easy for both nations to determine what routes to take for their naval and air travel / units. Also, they know how much fiber optic cable to lay, accurate distances between the nations, etc.

Kind of hard to do with customized landmasses, unless we make a map with ALL the customized landmasses. Then it'd be easy to see who's where.

However, I'm considering taking my Earth claims and merging them into a custom continent, as my nation has Ancient Egyptian and Ancient Incan influences (Pyramids, mountain cities, ziggrauts, etc.).

This is the problem, people dont realise that they can just 'make up' a nation. You can make your own map and really have as much land as you want. I dont see how you can claim RL territory unless you RP the nation you control (ie British Federation RPs as if he's the UK). Aren't the inhabiants going to be a bit annoyed? And in a real NS world they would be the pre-2002 nations, if you see what I mean. If you want more land, make up a continent, draw a map and let others join in colonising it. Dont make an "Earth IV CLOSED RP" and then invade the whole lot like Hataria did, as that's cheap and bordering on godmodded.

I'm all for custom landmasses.

However, we should consider making a NS map with all the well known custom landmasses.

That way, we can easily visualize trade routes, naval routes, air flights, fiber optic cables, etc. going between nations.

Funny that you mention it, I'm working on such a map. I'll make a thread later about it...

I'm all for custom landmasses.

However, we should consider making a NS map with all the well known custom landmasses.

That way, we can easily visualize trade routes, naval routes, air flights, fiber optic cables, etc. going between nations.
The problem with such a project is that there are so many continents, regions, etc. that it would be too time-consuming and it would be obsolete as soon as it was done.

Besides that, my region (Atlantian Oceania) doesn't really have a defined location (I asked on the regional board and they said it wasn't really supposed to be anywhere). For the sake of less confusion on my part, I just say it's in the South Atlantic (I guess it'd be somewhere on the way to Africa from South America).

Funny that you mention it, I'm working on such a map. I'll make a thread later about it...
I was going to do that, but I saw someone else try and get shot down. I hope you manage it HP, it would be really cool.

Rather than envisioning a super-planet, I think it would make more sense for NS to be set on a Dyson sphere or the like. There would be so much surface area that it would be, for all intents and purposes, infinite.

Dyson sphere wouldn't work. It'd fudge up the space nations. Who the hell controls the door :p?

I like the idea of a large Earth. I don't see why people just copy existing countries when they could have a lot of fun making their own up.

Dyson sphere wouldn't work. It'd fudge up the space nations. Who the hell controls the door :p?

I like the idea of a large Earth. I don't see why people just copy existing countries when they could have a lot of fun making their own up.

Aside from the fact that to make a small dyson sphere would require all the matter in this solar system (which means blowing up and refining all the planets, moon etc). Which leaves no where to live while constructing the sphere.

You lost me in the first paragraph. No serouisly, I agree with you whole heartedly. I ignore all Earths except 1, and anyway I'm a space nation. (Not set on Earth, suprisingly.)

I agree with HP on this. The "Earth System" ruins alot of chances for nations to RP with each other. It needs to end.

Perhaps you have a point.
I regard my original claims as a placeholder until I perfect my own map. As for my later claims, well, I felt that it was far more realistic to roleplay colonization in a country that existed instead of coming up with a new one, so that all involved were able to use it as a reference, rather than it having some unknown distance and size and shape....

Earth IV comes with resources assigned to territories. Makes for interesting rp.
For example, if Guadalcanal is TSP's only source of oil and gas, which it is, any nation that seizes Guadalcanal away from TSP would be taking away his oil and his gas supplies and hence force him out of any war he might be in. Basically, its attempt to introduce concept of geographic strategics to war and trade rps.

So a TV show says its possible then it's possible? Good grief, I know a few good ones too... I don't recognize any of the earths except I. Why? Earth II to infinity killed the creative RP nation creation which
makes NS cool.
Cosmologists say there are multiple demensions in real life, of which ours is only one. Course, its a theory.

Honestly, I dont see the big deal.

Dyson sphere wouldn't work. It'd fudge up the space nations. Who the hell controls the door :p?

I like the idea of a large Earth. I don't see why people just copy existing countries when they could have a lot of fun making their own up.

Who said there has to be doors? There could always be open spaces built into the design at regular intervals.

In fact, if you did it that way... you could possibly put the landmass on the exterior of the sphere and have solar reflectors simulate a day and night cycle.

Aside from the fact that to make a small dyson sphere would require all the matter in this solar system (which means blowing up and refining all the planets, moon etc). Which leaves no where to live while constructing the sphere.

Says who? Is all that matter going to be processed simultaneously?

I agree. Though I will RP with people who have real land places, this Earth system needs to end or fix itself.

I myself have 4 Protectorates, none of them in real life places. See? You can still be an Empire!

Not that I am imperialist, no not at all...

*goes back to plotting*

Who said there has to be doors? There could always be open spaces built into the design at regular intervals.

How does such a thing have an an atmosphere? Gravity? Do you realise how much material would be necessary to build the walls of a sphere far enough away from the sun so that it was habitable? What about structural issues? How does something that vast hold together? More to the point, how do you build something that vast?

In fact, if you did it that way... you could possibly put the landmass on the exterior of the sphere and have solar reflectors simulate a day and night cycle.

The point of a Dyson sphere is to make use of 100% of the sun's energy (obviously not plug something into it, you know what I mean, the solar energy). Doing what you just suggested would negate the point of building a Dyson sphere in the first place.

How does such a thing have an an atmosphere? Gravity? Do you realise how much material would be necessary to build the walls of a sphere far enough away from the sun so that it was habitable? What about structural issues? How does something that vast hold together? More to the point, how do you build something that vast?

Yes, I am perfectly aware of those potential issues. We could spend days debating them and possible solutions. I'm simply offering a suggestion that would be able to account for all the thousands of NS nations without having to go the "alternate dimensions" route.

The point of a Dyson sphere is to make use of 100% of the sun's energy (obviously not plug something into it, you know what I mean, the solar energy). Doing what you just suggested would negate the point of building a Dyson sphere in the first place.

Well, this wouldn't obviously be a full Dyson sphere, now would it? I've suggested compromises for the sake of gameplay and continuity with established NS stories. Besides, using 100% of the sun's energy wasn't the point of what I suggested. Providing a large enough surface area for the NS nations to exist was the point. You're approaching this from an entirely different perspective.

Yes, I am perfectly aware of those potential issues. We could spend days debating them and possible solutions. I'm simply offering a suggestion that would be able to account for all the thousands of NS nations without having to go the "alternate dimensions" route.



Well, this wouldn't obviously be a full Dyson sphere, now would it? I've suggested compromises for the sake of gameplay and continuity with established NS stories. Besides, using 100% of the sun's energy wasn't the point of what I suggested. Providing a large enough surface area for the NS nations to exist was the point. You're approaching this from an entirely different perspective.

Well a large planet would also offer more surface area, and would be free of all those issues that plague a Dyson sphere. The major issue it would have, is how we would survive the gravity...

Even if all 800,000 nations that NS hints at when you first arrive were still active, I still doubt you'd need as much space as a Dyson sphere would provide. We're talking more surface area than the sun itself, with a Dyson sphere...

Well a large planet would also offer more surface area, and would be free of all those issues that plague a Dyson sphere. The major issue it would have, is how we would survive the gravity...

Even if all 800,000 nations that NS hints at when you first arrive were still active, I still doubt you'd need as much space as a Dyson sphere would provide. We're talking more surface area than the sun itself, with a Dyson sphere...

You'd have to have a large planet with an appropriately lower average density to maintain an equivalent gravity. That brings up a whole host of other problems... like, how low can you go density-wise, before it's too loose to hold together?

You'd have to have a large planet with an appropriately lower average density to maintain an equivalent gravity. That brings up a whole host of other problems... like, how low can you go density-wise, before it's too loose to hold together?

Then you add fun things like how uranium appaers to extremely common in the upper layers of the planet's crust...

Persoanlly i treat RL claims as mere generalised locators, yes they can make Rps run a bit smoother with readily available maps but then can get annoying. i did once have a breif thought about a generic nation locator system based on 3 oceons each with 18 sub sectors but that was very very clumsy.

4) Why is all the lame-ass spam needed?

Then I'll recognize the earths and shut up about this subject.

Everyone has a right to base their nation on who ever they please. What would happen if a nation based entirely on Germany doesn't have German land because it was claimed two years ago? How is a list of nations that countries RP as being be spam? I'm Imperial Germany, so I have Germany. Is that a problem as long as I don't go to war with someone on another plannet?

The problem with Earth I is the claims are wank, the whole thing is full, and no one on there rps anymore.

Solved the problem a long time ago. First, chose an alien race based on Therapod dinosaurs. Second, chose to become a future tech race and eventually colonized a score or so systems (other than my own).

Solution simple, problem solved.

Actually, after thinking over this matter for a bit, I have come to an extremely simple solution.

Here goes...

Allow any nation to claim whatever Earth country they desire. Then that way, we don't need Earth threads anymore.


Benefits:

1. No more fights over claimed lands in Earth threads.

2. No more "Haha I got it first, too bad you sucker! Hahaha!" attitudes.

3. Allows a lot more flexibility in RP'ing development of nations*

4. Players can customize nations by meshing various nations or states together (Mesh California, Nevada, Utah, and Arizona to make one nation for instance).

5. Less spamming.


*If someone decides on a Viking feel for his / her nation, he / she will be free to do so by claiming Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark regardless if other nations claimed it. The Viking RP'er wouldn't be forced to abandon his / her planned nation development RP just because of other nation claims.


Thats my 2 cents. :)

Actually, after thinking over this matter for a bit, I have come to an extremely simple solution.

Here goes...

Allow any nation to claim whatever Earth country they desire. Then that way, we don't need Earth threads anymore.


Benefits:

1. No more fights over claimed lands in Earth threads.

2. No more "Haha I got it first, too bad you sucker! Hahaha!" attitudes.

3. Allows a lot more flexibility in RP'ing development of nations*

4. Players can customize nations by meshing various nations or states together (Mesh California, Nevada, Utah, and Arizona to make one nation for instance).

5. Less spamming.


*If someone decides on a Viking feel for his / her nation, he / she will be free to do so by claiming Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark regardless if other nations claimed it. The Viking RP'er wouldn't be forced to abandon his / her planned nation development RP just because of other nation claims.


Thats my 2 cents. :)

Seems to me this fits with the freeform rp purpose of this particular forum and it solves the issue adequately. I recognize several nations as being Iraq, for example. Same with Ukraine, I recognize RF as owning Ukraine, but at times, I recognize someone else owning it.
In some rp's I recognize ANL owning Mexico, in others I recognize that other fellow, don't know if he ever got registered an actual NS nation though.
It works for me. None of it has to conflict.

Callisdrun is its own nation, taking cultural elements from RL nations, but basically built from scratch. It is MY country, that I have made to fit my own personal eccentricities, not some RL nation.

The problem with Earth I is the claims are wank, the whole thing is full, and no one on there rps anymore.

Maybe if people would rp with us, we could rp!(See for example: Le Havre declared an open city)

Most RL nation claims arent wank, specifically because I review submissions before allowing them in. Wanky ones arent allowed in.

I do agree, and the way it would work is that someone has their Empire, and then someone else like that part of the world, no one would be able to have very big land, so I never understood that, That is Why I am a future tech, less confusion.

Earth 1 is nessecary because It allows for rp's to be far more realistic, rather then saying "i send X fleet to your nation they will arrive in [insert random time here]" you are able to actually know whereabouts you are attacking. For example, I declare war on Nation A who is in the north atlantic, i am the south pacific so unless i have kept a mental or other note on where all my forces are i have to transport them from the south pacific (increasing the amopunt of forces i have to send in order to transport whatever i need). Claims add more strategy to the game, for example in theis senario, if i had greenland i could have attacked with any forces i had on the island.

I see the NS earth as our (rl) earth but with 'folds' in it. Within these folds are where the NS nations are located. This allows for much more dynamic role play and for people who bitch baout the stuff they want having been taken, what do you think your paying your military for? You don't have to have an officially recognised claim on a country to role play as them. You can have exactly the same geography etc. but be located in one of the 'folds' next to them on the NS earth.

I see the point of the Earth n+1's as its nice to have a bit of recgonisable land you own but unless you want to base your entire country on anopther earth and so stop rp'ing with the vast majority of players then it really is just about usless.