NationStates Jolt Archive

AP - Mauiwowee announced to the world today the availability of their new class of submarine, the Bud Class "Shark" II Submarine. Below are specs. and a picture of the new subs. Orders for the sub. will take 6 NS months to fulfill.

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/1112/mauisub3.jpg

Class: Bud II

Specifications
Displacement: 10,650 tons (submerged)
Length: 422 feet
Beam: 55 feet
Draft: 44 feet
Speed: >27 knots - Average cruising speed 12 knots
Maximum Depth: 1,300 feet (tested, theoretical, 2,150)
Builder: W.M.D., Inc.
Power Plant: Two Tandem S8W Closed System Reactors w/ secondary General Electric Dynamo IV Electric motor.
Hull: HY-142 "Samuri Folded" Steel
Crew: 15 Officers & 145 Enlisted
Armament: 12 tube, 2 deck torpedo room:
8x720mm Torpedo Tubes
4x660mm Torpedo Tubes
75 Tomahawk Cruise missiles; or
75 Harpoon II Class anti-ship missiles; or
65 Mark 51 ADCAP torpedoes; or
135 MK 69 SLMM's (submarine launched mobile mines); or
Any reasonable combination of the above;
Plus:
2 ICBM vertical Missile Launchers and
2 retractable, "deck mounted," laser sighted, 65mm anti-aircraft guns (stern and bow).

Defensive Systems
WLY-4 torpedo decoy system
GTE WLQ-5(W)3 electronic countermeasures (ECM) system
W.M.D. Stealth "Sub Jet" silent propulsion (patent pending)
Electric Charged Hull system

Systems
Lockheed Martin BSY-5 Combat Data system;
Raytheon Mk3 Fire Control System;
BPS 19 Navigational Radar;
BQQ 7D Midships, Bow and Stern mounted active/passive wide flank sonar arrays

Price $1.45 billion, U.S.D. (5% discount for members of the Southern Alliance, Sarizonia & the Hawaiian Islands)

General Information: The "Sub Jet" (patent pending) silent propulsion system developed by W.M.D., Inc. is a quantum leap forward in silent propulsion for submarines. To describe it in general terms:
traditional submarines are propelled by a propeller/screw that is sits externally from the hull of the submarine itself and spins around a shaft which is connected to a turbine which spins due to steam generated by the closed water system of the nuclear engine. However, the "sub jet" removes this external mechanism that creates sound in the water that other subs and sophisticated sonar systems can track. It does this by using a turbine, similar to a jet's turbine, which is mounted internally in a sound proofed aft section of the submarine. Water is forced through the tubine (just like air is forced through a jet engine's turbine) into an enclosed chamber where it is placed under pressure (again, just like air in a jet engine). There, it is (for all practical purposes) instantly superheated to just below boiling by the nuclear engine (like the air in a jet engine is heated by the explosion of the gasoline it mixes with which is sparked in the combustion chamber of a jet). The pressure is relieved by a rear opening in the submarine which the water "squirts" out of (just like the explosive gases "squirt" out the rear of a jet engine) to provide forward thrust. Instead of a screw with 4, 6 or 8 blades spinning in the water that surrounds the sub. and pushing the the sub. forward and creating noise sonar can track, you have a turbine with 110 "blades" sitting inside the submarine which is pushed forward by the force created when heated water under pressure is released through the aft "blow hole" (as W.M.D. engineers have come to describe the water's ejection point from the turbine's compartment). At normal cruising speed of 12 knots, the sub is as quiet as they come. At top speed, however, the noise level is easily tracked. Noise is dampened at normal speeds though by having the ejecting water pass through a ionization chamber that ionizes the minerals in the water which then flows through a "charged grate" (that must be cleaned every so often) that effectively aligns the water/mineral molecules to eject a streamlined flow of water that neutralizes turbulence.

(OOC: Hopefully this description of how the "sub jet" engine works is clear enough to understand, if not, post here or TG me and I'll try to give a better description).

bump for sales

I'll take 20 of the Bud II subs for 29 bil.

*money wired*

*check confirmed*

I'll take 20 of the Bud II subs for 29 bil.

*money wired*

*check confirmed*

Dear Sirs:

Thank you for you order. It is confirmed and the first subs should be delivered within the next NS months with 2 per month following until the order is completely filled. If you have any questions, please let us know.

Sincerely,
Gen. Jack T. Ripper
CEO, W.M.D., Inc.

So shooting large amounts of superheated water out of the back of a submarine is silent? THis would be far louder than conventional propellert... the majority of the sound produced by a high speed submarine are cavitation noises... bubbles, in other words. SUperheated water traveling very fast would create so much turbulence and so many bubbles that it would light up every passive sonar set for dozens of miles.

So shooting large amounts of superheated water out of the back of a submarine is silent? THis would be far louder than conventional propellert... the majority of the sound produced by a high speed submarine are cavitation noises... bubbles, in other words. SUperheated water traveling very fast would create so much turbulence and so many bubbles that it would light up every passive sonar set for dozens of miles.

Not to mention that it would be easily visible on thermal sensors.

So shooting large amounts of superheated water out of the back of a submarine is silent? THis would be far louder than conventional propellert... the majority of the sound produced by a high speed submarine are cavitation noises... bubbles, in other words. SUperheated water traveling very fast would create so much turbulence and so many bubbles that it would light up every passive sonar set for dozens of miles.

OOC:

ditto (to quote)

And what is the point of having an onboard reactor if your going to negate its advantages by having to use gasoline for the combustion process anyway?

Not to mention the environmental concerns. Should you use this in an area where there are fish eggs they’ll think its hatching time and come out prematurely. This thing could wipe out entire schools by simply moving around.

And for my own clarification what temperature are you firing the jet stream out at? You’ll look like a giant bull’s-eye to an IR filter.

Nova Hope, I believe the gasoline was an analogy to conventional jet engines... gasoline doesn't combust easily under water.

Further, though the compartment the turbine is in may be soundproofed, water's still flowing through the turbine. Since water is an excelent conductor of sound, it makes the soundproofing irrelevent.

OOC: Ok, so guess who is not a RL mechanical engineer :)

IC:
Dear sirs, thank you for your questions regarding the "sub jet" engines functioning. To address your questions:

1. We are not burning gasoline at all. We were merely making a analogy to the operation of conventional jet turbine engines comparing our heating of the water to the combustion of gasoline.

2. Sound proofing of the chamber is relevant as it significantly does reduce the sound produced that can be tracked. True it will not eliminate it completely, but it reduces its volume significantly and the sound proofing in the sub jet engine is designed to ensure that the sound that is released is at a frequency that does not carry well in the pressurized ocean water depths (OOC: I spoke with an engineer about this issue today and was informed that certain low sounds (i.e. long wave length) do not carry well in sea water.) We may call it "silent" in our advertising, but any one with any sense knows that no engine with moving parts can ever be made totally, 100% silent. We just claim to be quieter than conventional engines with external screws.

3. Turbulence of the water being ejected through the blow hole is reduced to acceptable levels by having an elongated grid (imagine a screen that is many yards thick instead of just a millimeter or two) made of charged, 100% smooth, copper plates (approx. 2 millimeters thick) so that as the water passes through it, it aligns the ions naturally present in the water into a continuous pattern which causes the water to "streamline" as it flows out of the blow hole and reduce the turbulence. (OOC: again, I'm no engineer if this won't work, will you accept we do it by magic? :) )

4. Temprature is an issue and we did not claim the sub. was undetectable on thermal sensors. However, with that in mind, the water that exits the blow hole is a a temprature less than boiling (neccesary since if it were boiling it would set the water around it to boiling to some extent and the turbulence and production of bubbles would be excessive making turbulence to high and completely uncontrollable and clearly making detection a possibility). Note, we heat the water quickly to induce a higher pressure, but we did not say we boil it or turn it to steam prior to ejecting it through the blow hole. We know this would [u]not[/i] work. Also the heat will disapate quickly enough that detection by thermal sensors is a risk only if you are close to them. The the temprature of the ejected water will decrease proportionally as it dissipates into the surrounding ocean.

OOC: again, I'm no engineer or physicist, but I've tried to come up with reasonable RP answers to your concerns. IF I'm still screwed I'll edit the original post and propose my second idea for the sub jet engine.

OOC: Ok, so guess who is not a RL mechanical engineer :)

IC:
Dear sirs, thank you for your questions regarding the "sub jet" engines functioning. To address your questions:

1. We are not burning gasoline at all. We were merely making a analogy to the operation of conventional jet turbine engines comparing our heating of the water to the combustion of gasoline.

2. Sound proofing of the chamber is relevant as it significantly does reduce the sound produced that can be tracked. True it will not eliminate it completely, but it reduces its volume significantly and the sound proofing in the sub jet engine is designed to ensure that the sound that is released is at a frequency that does not carry well in the pressurized ocean water depths (OOC: I spoke with an engineer about this issue today and was informed that certain low sounds (i.e. long wave length) do not carry well in sea water.) We may call it "silent" in our advertising, but any one with any sense knows that no engine with moving parts can ever be made totally, 100% silent. We just claim to be quieter than conventional engines with external screws.

3. Turbulence of the water being ejected through the blow hole is reduced to acceptable levels by having an elongated grid (imagine a screen that is many yards thick instead of just a millimeter or two) made of charged, 100% smooth, copper plates (approx. 2 millimeters thick) so that as the water passes through it, it aligns the ions naturally present in the water into a continuous pattern which causes the water to "streamline" as it flows out of the blow hole and reduce the turbulence. (OOC: again, I'm no engineer if this won't work, will you accept we do it by magic? :) )

4. Temprature is an issue and we did not claim the sub. was undetectable on thermal sensors. However, with that in mind, the water that exits the blow hole is a a temprature less than boiling (neccesary since if it were boiling it would set the water around it to boiling to some extent and the turbulence and production of bubbles would be excessive making turbulence to high and completely uncontrollable and clearly making detection a possibility). Note, we heat the water quickly to induce a higher pressure, but we did not say we boil it or turn it to steam prior to ejecting it through the blow hole. We know this would [u]not[/i] work. Also the heat will disapate quickly enough that detection by thermal sensors is a risk only if you are close to them. The the temprature of the ejected water will decrease proportionally as it dissipates into the surrounding ocean.

OOC: again, I'm no engineer or physicist, but I've tried to come up with reasonable RP answers to your concerns. IF I'm still screwed I'll edit the original post and propose my second idea for the sub jet engine.

OOC: Fair enough. Looking back it was kinda,... slow, of me to think you ment actual gas. Heh, I blame my head cold for an inability to discern similies.

As for the explainations I like it and I suppose I did jump on your advertising campaign abit.

A point on number three though. Perhaps Its only me being slow again but how do you use the copper screen without losing the forward momentum you gained? I like the idea don't get me wrong I just think that you might be topending on your speed estimates,... or is the speed estimate for when the screen is retracted?

And if your answer is satisfactory I might place an order for a few.

another quick question

Electric Charged Hull system

meh?!?! :confused:

As a propulsion system this would work, however it would not be particularly quiet. THe problem is that the water exiting the engine is going to be going much faster than the water on the outside and will form turbulence regardless of whether the ions are alligned or not (by the way, that was a terrific bit of technobabble =) ). You have high speed, high temperature water mixing with low temperature slow water, there's going to be turbulence and noise regardless.

Now, here's a way to actually make it work.

Waterjet turbines aren't new, so using a turbine like that will work. They aren't quieter than normal subs by any means, but they do have different accoustic signatures and should be able to go considerably faster. If you use the superheated water idea as a kind of 'afterburner' for terminal attacks and evasive manouvers, I could see the sub being faster than a soviet Alpha. On the other hand, the increased temperature and pressure would accelerate wear on the engine and corrosion, so it would be an emergency system... how's that?

Soundproofing the compartment I suppose would help some... but I'd stop advertising it as superquiet and change it to superfast... there are so many people selling quiet subs with layers of accousitc paneling and acoustic gel and multibladed propellers (propellers I believe will always be quieter because you can make the blades very long; long blades reduces the number of revolutions the engine has to do, which means that all the machinery moves more slowly and quietly even though a similar speed is achieved.) and AIP engines.

I also wouldn't worry about heat sensors picking up the temperature difference; heat dissipates so quickly in water, it shouldn't be that big a deal. THe big problem will be the turbulence caused by the warm water rising.

OOC: Fair enough. Looking back it was kinda,... slow, of me to think you ment actual gas. Heh, I blame my head cold for an inability to discern similies.

As for the explainations I like it and I suppose I did jump on your advertising campaign abit.

A point on number three though. Perhaps Its only me being slow again but how do you use the copper screen without losing the forward momentum you gained? I like the idea don't get me wrong I just think that you might be topending on your speed estimates,... or is the speed estimate for when the screen is retracted?

And if your answer is satisfactory I might place an order for a few.

Right, the speed listed in the advert is the max/attack speed. I'll go back and edit that. Average cruising speed is going to be 12 knots with speeds above 19 requiring the screen to be retracted so as not to restrict the water flow from the blow hole. (OOC: Obviously, any sub traveling at its maximum speed is generally not concerned with detection, its traveling as fast as it can because it has been detected and is trying to get away or because it is in battle). So, how many do you want to order? :)

OOC: Crap, Jolt won't let me edit the original advert now to add the average cruising speed of 12 knots.

Right, the speed listed in the advert is the max/attack speed. I'll go back and edit that. Average cruising speed is going to be 12 knots with speeds above 19 requiring the screen to be retracted so as not to restrict the water flow from the blow hole. (OOC: Obviously, any sub traveling at its maximum speed is generally not concerned with detection, its traveling as fast as it can because it has been detected and is trying to get away or because it is in battle). So, how many do you want to order? :)

OOC: Crap, Jolt won't let me edit the original advert now to add the average cruising speed of 12 knots.

because your logged in as another nation

another quick question

Electric Charged Hull system

meh?!?! :confused:

1. Ever see the movie "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea?" remember when the natives tried to board the ship and got "zapped" by electricity running through the hull?

2. A minimal electrical charge running throughout the hull as the ship cruises helps repel giant squid that might decide to attack it thinking it was a whale.

3. Likewise, the same minimal charge acts as a natural shield against the corrosive effect of seawater on the steel hull wherever minor imperfections exist in the metal or paint and repel crustaceans and barnacles.

4. Just a cool thing to say in an RP advert.

because your logged in as another nation

Damn, thanks DUHHHHHH!!!! :headbang:

As a propulsion system this would work, however it would not be particularly quiet. THe problem is that the water exiting the engine is going to be going much faster than the water on the outside and will form turbulence regardless of whether the ions are alligned or not (by the way, that was a terrific bit of technobabble =) ).
Mauiwowee: Thanks

You have high speed, high temperature water mixing with low temperature slow water, there's going to be turbulence and noise regardless.
Mauiwowee: I understand that, but, see my reply to Nova Hope above and further comment on your ideas below

Now, here's a way to actually make it work.

Waterjet turbines aren't new, so using a turbine like that will work. They aren't quieter than normal subs by any means, but they do have different accoustic signatures and should be able to go considerably faster. If you use the superheated water idea as a kind of 'afterburner' for terminal attacks and evasive manouvers, I could see the sub being faster than a soviet Alpha. On the other hand, the increased temperature and pressure would accelerate wear on the engine and corrosion, so it would be an emergency system... how's that?

Mauiwowee: How about at the average cruising speed of 12 knots, the effect of the shielding in the chamber and the "ion screen" it is quieter than a "standard" screw type sub (albeit maybe not by much, but enough to advertise it as using the new silent "sub jet" technology) but once the screen is retracted at 19 knots and above, it becomes significantly louder?

Soundproofing the compartment I suppose would help some... but I'd stop advertising it as superquiet and change it to superfast...

Mauiwowee: I can go for that, though see above. what would you say to increasing max/attack speed from 27 to 30 knots or more?

there are so many people selling quiet subs with layers of accousitc paneling and acoustic gel and multibladed propellers (propellers I believe will always be quieter because you can make the blades very long; long blades reduces the number of revolutions the engine has to do, which means that all the machinery moves more slowly and quietly even though a similar speed is achieved.) and AIP engines.

Mauiwowee: hmmm, AIP engine, didn't think of that, gotta ask my engineer friend.

I also wouldn't worry about heat sensors picking up the temperature difference; heat dissipates so quickly in water, it shouldn't be that big a deal. THe big problem will be the turbulence caused by the warm water rising.

Mauiwowee: You said it more succinctly, but that was my point in my "explanation" post. I don't see temprature as an issue. Now, tell me what you think of my alternate idea below that was almost the original post. Would it be better to go with this idea?


Alternate idea:

What if the turbine was at the front of the ship and ran the water through a sound dampened tube, full of naturally occurring sea water, that ran the length of the ship before exiting, to produce the thrust (with the thrust actually taking place in the tube, not as the result of the water exiting the ship/tube) to reduce the noise caused by turbulence since the bulk of the turbulence would occur inside the tube and would have the length of the ship inside the tube to begin to "calm down" or dissipate to a steady state like the surrounding sea water? Sorta like front wheel drive.

Alternate idea:

What if the turbine was at the front of the ship and ran the water through a sound dampened tube, full of naturally occurring sea water, that ran the length of the ship before exiting, to produce the thrust (with the thrust actually taking place in the tube, not as the result of the water exiting the ship/tube) to reduce the noise caused by turbulence since the bulk of the turbulence would occur inside the tube and would have the length of the ship inside the tube to begin to "calm down" or dissipate to a steady state like the surrounding sea water? Sorta like front wheel drive.

The problem with that is that you're essentially pulling the sub... rather than pushing it. You won't be able to go as fast as with a pusher-screw and you're increasing the level of complexity. The thrust comes from the screw/turbine/whatever turning the water and accelerating it in the axial direction.

bump

The Incorporated states would like to aquire two of these subs for testing ourselves. If we are satisfied with the result we will aquire more.
The amont of 2.9 billion $ will be sent on confirmation of our order.

The Incorporated states would like to aquire two of these subs for testing ourselves. If we are satisfied with the result we will aquire more.
The amont of 2.9 billion $ will be sent on confirmation of our order.

Order confirmed, please wire funds. One sub is complete and will be shipped immediately, the 2nd will take approximately 2 NS months to finish and will be generally sea tested during the delivery process. thank you for your order. Please do us the courtesy of letting us hear the results of your tests.

sincerely,
Gen. Jack T. Ripper

Of course. Not sending the information back to the developer would be rather foolish as it can only help you with sales and further developing.
------money wired-------

General Information: The "Sub Jet" (patent pending) silent propulsion system developed by W.M.D., Inc. is a quantum leap forward in silent propulsion for submarines. To describe it in general terms:
traditional submarines are propelled by a propeller/screw that is sits externally from the hull of the submarine itself and spins around a shaft which is connected to a turbine which spins due to steam generated by the closed water system of the nuclear engine. However, the "sub jet" removes this external mechanism that creates sound in the water that other subs and sophisticated sonar systems can track. It does this by using a turbine, similar to a jet's turbine, which is mounted internally in a sound proofed aft section of the submarine. Water is forced through the tubine (just like air is forced through a jet engine's turbine) into an enclosed chamber where it is placed under pressure (again, just like air in a jet engine). There, it is (for all practical purposes) instantly superheated by the nuclear engine (like the air in a jet engine is heated by the explosion of the gasoline it mixes with which is sparked in the combustion chamber of a jet). The pressure is relieved by a rear opening in the submarine which the water "squirts" out of (just like the explosive gases "squirt" out the rear of a jet engine) to provide forward thrust. Instead of a screw with 4, 6 or 8 blades spinning in the water that surrounds the sub. and pushing the the sub. forward and creating noise sonar can track, you have a turbine with 110 "blades" sitting inside the submarine which is pushed forward by the force created when heated water under pressure is released through the aft "blow hole" (as W.M.D. engineers have come to describe the water's ejection point from the turbine's compartment).

You know I really hate people who steal stuff from movies (in this case The Hunt for Red October)

The Krasney Oktobre used a different propulsion system.

Mauiwowee, I'm still not convinced it would work (well, of course it will WORK, but I don't think it will be very quiet at all), and the grating, though a nice bit of technobable, is meaningless...

You know I really hate people who steal stuff from movies (in this case The Hunt for Red October)

OOC: I feel certain I did not "steal" this idea from that movie or anywhere else. If our idea was set out in that film, I sure as hell don't recall it, but then again, I was focused on the action and characters, not the technology.

The Krasney Oktobre used a different propulsion system.

Mauiwowee, I'm still not convinced it would work, and the grating, though a nice bit of technobable, is meaningless...

OOC: "grating" that's the word I was looking for, thanks! Technobabble, isn't that what RP (at least semi-realistic, though admittedly not completely, scientifically accurate) is all about? :)

As to the post by Autonomous City-states, I don't mean a turbine in the exact center of the sub's nose with a tube running the length and center of the sub. That would be pulling and would decrease speed (but could potentially increase handling) and I agree to that. I was thinking of the turbine being mounted about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way forward from the stern and the tube extending from there in both directions. To analogize: pushing a little red wagon with your hands directly on the middle rear (i.e. convential propulsion) is good, I agree. However, placing your hands on either side of the wagon about 2/3 or so of the way towards the front still gives you leverage to push the wagon instead of pull it and also lets you exert a firmer, downward pressure that enhances steering/directional control.

just a thought.

OOC: Whatever floats your boat. :)

THe difference is I can't find holes in my technobabble =)

I don't think the amound of thrust is really the issue, i'm sure you can get enough out of it to move the sub at any speed up to 30 knots. And having the turbine internally may even muffle the sound a bit, but I'm not holding my breath, and I believe that it would be more than counteracted by the higher turbine speed. It's the heating of the water that bothers me... though I suppose that also depends on how much you heat it. The grating would, as far as I can tell, actually increase sound production because of the friction and vortexes it would create... but oh well. What would really make me happier is if you included some horrible weakness only specific to this propullsion system. Perhaps it has a tendancy to jam after sucking in dolphins, or maybe cruises need to be abriviated to clean seaweed off the turbine blades... be creative (and amusing if you can manage it) =)

THe difference is I can't find holes in my technobabble =)

I don't think the amound of thrust is really the issue, i'm sure you can get enough out of it to move the sub at any speed up to 30 knots. And having the turbine internally may even muffle the sound a bit, but I'm not holding my breath, and I believe that it would be more than counteracted by the higher turbine speed. It's the heating of the water that bothers me... though I suppose that also depends on how much you heat it. The grating would, as far as I can tell, actually increase sound production because of the friction and vortexes it would create... but oh well. What would really make me happier is if you included some horrible weakness only specific to this propullsion system. Perhaps it has a tendancy to jam after sucking in dolphins, or maybe cruises need to be abriviated to clean seaweed off the turbine blades... be creative (and amusing if you can manage it) =)

In response to a number of queries regarding the propulsion units of the Bud II class submarines, Gen. Jack T. Ripper has released the following statement to purchasers and will make the information available to those considering the purchase of one of our subs.

"The copper grating used to ionize and "stream line" the water as it is jetted from the sub's "blow hole" so as to reduce turbulence to acceptable levels needs periodic maintenance and replacement. Specifically, as the grate is made of charged copper plates, they tend to accumulate mineral deposits on them created by the attraction of mineral matter naturally inherent in sea water. As a result they lose their effectiveness at reducing turbulence and ionizing the water and likewise, if the mineral deposits are left untreated, they end up creating more turbulence. W.M.D., Inc. reccomends that the grating be completely cleaned every 10,000 nautical miles and completely replaced at least once every 18 months to avoid this problem. The cleaning process is relatively simple, but it does require the sub to surface so that your maintenance crews can, as we have come to call it, 'wipe the blow hole's ass.'"

OOC: hows that? :)

OOC terrific, thanks =)

We have used this in combat and have sunk 2 ships with it.

We'd like 100 of these because of their capability.

We have used this in combat and have sunk 2 ships with it.

We'd like 100 of these because of their capability.

Order confirmed and shipping will begin upon receipt of payment.

Looks like we may get a better test than anticipated...The Incorporated states, based on the information gained by testing the two we already have, would like to aquire five more. One question..do we supply our own hardware? (weapons loads)

I am impressed with these Bud II subs.

I agree. They are fine ships. Just we don't want to expand to far too fast, hence us ordering them in small batches for now..

We have used this in combat and have sunk 2 ships with it.

We'd like 100 of these because of their capability.
^How can a nation with a population of a mere 40 million afford that many subs?

We have our ways...!

"Have our ways", eh? According to this (http://www.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=jackdonia) there is no way you can afford them. Not only is this WAY above your national military budget, it equals it for ten years.

We tax our citizens hard! And pay them back with rich palaces!

Face the facts, sir. You'd bankrupt your nation by even trying to buy half that number. Prove your case, or rather disprove mine, as I've shown you the figures.

I have dicoverd 1.2bil jakios underground in a cave!

That's not enough to buy even one. Mauiwowee, I'd seriosly suggest over riding his order. There in absolutely no way, short of god modding, that he can afford those subs.

Am i a bad player? Can you help me Hardhead?

I want those 100 subs! Really,I wil do anyhting to get those 100 subs!

You can't afford them. It's that simple. Deal with it.

Can i but some?how so i do it?

By putting some of your nations funding into defense. And according to this (http://www.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=great_lego) you have a grand total of 0% of your budget spent on it.
OOC: this ns economy rater is extremely usefull for doing background checks on whether or not the nations ordering from you can actually afford what they're ordering. I'd suggest using it to check every nation before okaying the orders.

Looks like we may get a better test than anticipated...The Incorporated states, based on the information gained by testing the two we already have, would like to aquire five more. One question..do we supply our own hardware? (weapons loads)

Gentlemen:

Your order is confirmed. We are pleased to hear of your satisfaction with the subs. As to your quesiton, we typically ship them unarmed, however, if requested, we will supply up to 5 tomahawk cruise missiles with convential warheads and 10 harpoon anti-ship missiles for your sea tests.

Sincerely,
Gen. Jack T. Ripper
CEO, W.M.D., Inc.

MEMO:
TO: Jackdonia
FROM: Gen. Jack T. Ripper
RE: Sub order from W.M.D., Inc.

Dear sirs:
We recently confirmed an order of 100 of our subs to your great nation. However, we are now informed by our bankers, after having run a credit check on your country, that you cannot possibly, at this time, afford to purchase 100 of the subs. We greatly regret this. We would love nothing more than to be able to assist you and make such a significant sale. However, your finances and credits will not permit us to take such a huge credit risk at this time. Your order for 100 subs is hereby canceled. If you wish, we are willing to sell you 4 and we merely need you to confirm that you want to go ahead with an order for 4 and wire us the funds.

Thank you for your patronage and satisfaction with the subs. Again we regret our inability to extend you the credit necessary for the purchase of 100, but it is financial decision that we feel is necessary at this time.

Sincerely,
Gen. Jack T. Ripper
-----------------------------------------------

Great Lego:

We would we happy to offer a single sub at this time. We assume you will need to shift money in your budget to defense spending in order to purchase one. If you wish to do so, we will sell you one though.

Sincerely,
Gen. Jack T. Ripper


OOC: Jackdonia, Great Lego, you need to also take into account that a nuclear sub, besides being expensive to purchase is also pretty damned expensive to operate. My country is more than 10 times your size with a defense budget (http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=mauiwowee) in excess of $1 trillion and I am an island nation with about 45% of my total military invested in the navy, but I only claim to have 19 subs and 24 Carriers. The budget calculator link is a great resource and I highly reccomend you use it and keep orders reasonable. Jackdonia, I want to apologize for "confirming" your order as well. I shouldn't have done that without verifying your budget. Thanks Hardheads for doing that.

Gentlemen:

Your order is confirmed. We are pleased to hear of your satisfaction with the subs. As to your quesiton, we typically ship them unarmed, however, if requested, we will supply up to 5 tomahawk cruise missiles with convential warheads and 10 harpoon anti-ship missiles for your sea tests.

Sincerely,
Gen. Jack T. Ripper
CEO, W.M.D., Inc.
OOC No problem. By the way...the "better testing" I mentioned is by sending them both to represent our interests in a certain international incident. Hataria vs Communist Loisiana, to be precise.

needs some more sales so - bump!

We'll take one please, funds wired.
Thank you.

Your order is confirmed Texarkania. Thank you for your business

bump for sales

Ill take 21 for 30.5 billion.

Money wired upon confirmation.

Ooc: +tag+

Ill take 21 for 30.5 billion.

Money wired upon confirmation.

Dear Sirs:
Your order is confirmed, shipment of all 21 will take 7 months (3 per month). Please forward funds.
Sincerely,
Gen. Jack T. Ripper,
CEO, W.M.D. Inc.

Dear Sirs:
Your order is confirmed, shipment of all 21 will take 7 months (3 per month). Please forward funds.
Sincerely,
Gen. Jack T. Ripper,
CEO, W.M.D. Inc.

Money wired.

Money wired.

Thank you, the first shipment is on its way and undergoing sea tests in transit.

I'd remove the "Ultimate" if I were you. Kotterdam's Posiedon class has this beat in every category except sheer number of missiles.

I'd remove the "Ultimate" if I were you. Kotterdam's Posiedon class has this beat in every category except sheer number of missiles.

It's advertising, we see no need to remove "ultimate" at this time since we "beat" Koterdam's Posiedon class on attack capabilities. Though we will acknowledge their sub. is "right up there" with ours.

"The Government of Teh Ninjas wishes to purchase 50 for use in our navy. The total cost comes to 72.5 Billion. We wish to know if we can pay over a peroid of 5 installments of 14.5 Billion, to lessen the burden on our immediate budget. Funds will be wired once order is confirmed."
Jack Fergunson
Department of Defense

"The Government of Teh Ninjas wishes to purchase 50 for use in our navy. The total cost comes to 72.5 Billion. We wish to know if we can pay over a peroid of 5 installments of 14.5 Billion, to lessen the burden on our immediate budget. Funds will be wired once order is confirmed."
Jack Fergunson
Department of Defense

Your terms are acceptable and the order is confirmed. production and shipment will begin upon the first payment with the first sub to be delivered within 60 days and shipment of 5 more every 60 days thereafter until the order is complete.

bump, need some sales.

bump