NationStates Jolt Archive

Samtonia would like to announce the development of a new generation in self-propelled artillery- The Brimstone.

The Brimstone artillery system was intended to provide enhanced survivability, lethality and mobility and be more easily deployable and sustainable than current systems. A battery of six Brimstones can deliver 15 tonnes of ammunition in less than 5mins.

The Brimstone consists of two vehicles, the SM2001 155mm self-propelled howitzer and the SM2002 armoured re-supply vehicle. The high level of automation means that the howitzer and re-supply vehicle each require only three men to operate it. The gunners can control the entire loading and firing process from the safety of the computerised cockpit under armour and nuclear biological and chemical warfare protection.

SM2001 SELF-PROPELLED HOWITZER

Brimstone's 155mm self-propelled howitzer, SM2001, has fully automated ammunition handling and firing that allows firing of the 48 on-board rounds at rates of up to 10 rounds per minute to ranges in excess of 40km. The first rounds of a mission can be fired in 15 to 30 seconds. Additionally Brimstone has the capability to fire multiple rounds to achieve simultaneous impact on target (MRSI). One Brimstone vehicle can fire up to 8 rounds to strike a single target at the same time. The digital fire control system calculates separate firing solutions for each of the 8 projectiles.

XM2002 RESUPPLY VEHICLE

Brimstone is re-supplied by the SM2002 ammunition re-supply vehicle, which is equipped with a fully automated ammunition handling subsystem. This allows its three-man re-supply crew to automatically transfer, under armour, up to 48 rounds of ammunition and fuel to the howitzer in less than 12 minutes. Resupply can be carried out in a contaminated environment.

The resupply vehicle itself can be fully loaded with fuel and 110 rounds of ammunition in less than 60 minutes.

COMMAND AND CONTROL

Brimstone's command centre is equipped with onboard tactical systems including decision aids, and advanced position and navigational aids and an automated IFF system.

The Brimstone sends and receives real-time battlefield information through the Advanced Field Artillery Tactical Data System (AFATDS) and it can communicate directly with other combat vehicles. The secure data transmission network digitally links the Howitzer, Resupply Vehicle and the rest of the battlefield to give every vehicle real time situational awareness.

ARMAMENT

Brimstone can deliver any type of round including high explosive, white phosphorus and smoke, DPICM, illumination and SADARM rounds.

The Brimstone solid propellant armament system consists of the cannon, gun mount, and a laser ignition system. The Shadowsword cannon tube is Integral Midwall Cooled (IMC) which enables extremely high rates of fire. The cannon chamber and tube are chrome-plated to minimise wear and erosion. The chamber is compatible with the Modular Artillery Charge System (MACS) solid propellant propulsion system.

PROPULSION

The Brimstone's engine and hydropneumatic suspension give a road speed of up to 67km/h and a cross-country speed of 48km/h. The transmission allows automatic scheduling of engine speed and transmission ratio for fuel economy. The driving system features drive-by-wire, positional navigation and movement planning decision aids.

BRIMSTONE 155MM SELF PROPELLED HOWITZER - SPECIFICATION
Lethality
Rate of fire: 10 rounds per minute
Gunpointing: Fully automated
Ammunition handling: Fully automated
Ready to fire: 15 to 30 seconds
Time on target: 4 rounds from 5-30 km
Minimum range: 5 km
Maximum range: 40+ km

Mobility
Road speed: 67 km/hr
Cross-country speed: 48 km/hr

Deployability
Air transport: C-5 and C-17 transportable
Predicted munitions effectiveness: 2X American Paladin System

Survivability
Displace/move profile: 750 meters/ 90 seconds
Active defence system: Integrated, remote controlled, active defence system

Sustainability
Maintenance aids: Embedded diagnostics/prognostics
Ammunition upload/transfer: Fully automated
Crew size: 3
Resupply: 60 rounds of ammunition and fuel in 12 minutes

Power pack
Engine: Brimstone BV12 1500 engine
Transmission: SMPT 15O0-EC Transmission
Power Takeoff: Full power, constant running
Service and Parking Brakes: Mechanically actuated, oil-cooled, multiple disc power
Dynamic Steering: Full engine retarding torque/limited hydrostatic
Steering: True pivot steering, continuously variable ratio hydromechanical, fully regenerative without brakes/clutches
Input disconnect: Hydraulically actuated clutch power train disconnect
Suspension: External hydropneumatic
Track: Improved T-8G/KLBT 5BLL track
Control systems: Drive-by wire/Position navigation/Movement planning decision aids
http://img90.exs.cx/img90/2792/SamtonianArtillery.jpg
SM2001 155mm self-propelled howitzer
http://img90.exs.cx/img90/2597/ArtilleryHandler.jpg
SM2002 armoured re-supply vehicle

OOC- BUMP. Anything wrong with this? Feedback please.

The Great Armed Republic of Nutropinia would like to buy 175 of this fine self-propelled artillery piece and 175 of the Resupply Vehicles and the production rights for all types of ammo. How much would this cost.

We wonder if this is for sale... if it is, we also wonder about production rights. We already have a self-propelled 300mm sub-orbital cannon, but we like to invest in other technologies.

I'll buy the rights to this

Samtonia is considering the possibilities of selling the Brimstone Self-Propelled Artillery System to foreign nations.

If it is decided sales are to be permitted, background checks will be conducted on all interested parties.

Production rights are unlikely to be sold. However, once you buy some Brimstone vehicles, unless you suffer radical policy changes, you'll be able to buy as many more as you need!

Samtonia- Building A Brighter, Shinier, More Explosive Future!

Nutropinia would be willing to pay handsomely for this artillery piece.

OOC: Sustained fire would tend to throw the accuracy out of alignment somewhat, overheat the mechanisms, and wear out the bore (this is a six inch shell, pretty damn big munition to shoot so fast). But taking those into account this seems quite reasonable. Nice job.

The ARSB would be interested in purchasing production rights for this extremely well-designed artillery platform. This would prove very useful in any theater.

The Government of Samtonia would like to inform all interested nations that the Brimstone artillery system will be put up for sale at a cost of 4.5 million USD per one (1) artillery system. Both the SM2002 Resupply vehicle and the SM2001 SP Howitzer are included in this purchasing cost.

As stated before, background checks will be performed on all interested parties.

Also, as stated before, we regret to announce the refusal of production rights to any country but our closest allies. However, once you buy one order, you can keep ordering for as long as you need, as long as policy or regime changes do not take place or war is declared against Samtonia or any of her allies.

LEGAL DISCLAIMER
Any theft of either the design or production rights of this artillery system is punishable per the UN's resolution to protect foreign patents. Invasion of countries found to be violating this point is to be assumed to be an authorized attack, per the invasion of Samtonia. After all, theft of ideas is just as bad as theft of land.

Furthermore, countries buying the Brimstone artillery system must agree to not sell Brimstone artillery units to any country, as per the intellectual theft of patents. Violation also will be assumed to provoke an authorized attack by Samtonia.

We'll buy 1000 units then. We also want to know it its ok to mod some systems a bit, so the unit will not self-destruct.

The Great Armed Republic of Nutropinia would like to Purchase 222 of the artillery pieces for 999 Million USD. Could we buy production rights for just the ammo to the vehicle or is that not even possible?

Just so everyone knows, Samtonia is currently conducting said background checks.

Now, to answer questions.

CM, you may mod to your heart's content, but any Samtonian warranties are automatically void and repealed as soon as you crack that thing open and start ripping parts out. And to even suggest we'd place explosives in!

Nutropinia, those rounds' plans are not copyright of anyone. They are so widely used, any country can easily manufacture them. So no worries!

Due to the refusal of production rights, the ARSB is willing to purchase four hundred of the said units.

CM, you may mod to your heart's content, but any Samtonian warranties are automatically void and repealed as soon as you crack that thing open and start ripping parts out. And to even suggest we'd place explosives in!


Well, I didn't know, some people do that. I'm just going to mod the gun's breach so it will take my Cowboy Artillery system's magazines.

Soviet Bloc, your order has been cleared. Please send the money.

Crazed Marines, you are on a trial period with our artillery systems. You may buy up to 100 of them, and you will be monitored to ensure proper use. After we feel we trust you enough, we will enstate the buying clause.

OOC- (It's just because you are a semi-new nation, so we want to see what you're like)

Jangle Jangle Ridge, your order has been cleared as well. Feel free to place your first order.

Nutropinia, your order has been cleared as well. Please wire your rder and money to us.

The Great Armed Republic of Nutropinia would like to Purchase 222 of the artillery pieces for 999 Million USD. The Money Has Been Wired.

I will buy:
20- SM2001 155mm self-propelled howitzers

total 90 mill

money wired

Green empire

That is fine with me. I'll buy just 100 of them.

im willing to buy 2 thousand of said brimstones for a mere sum of $9 billion


official dispatch from Korekitsu, capital of Yatsumica
To whom it may concern,
"Yatsumica would be much obliged to buy 2,000 of these new brimstone artilleries. You may do a thorough investigation of the countries backround within leagal bounds, we will supply the information needed. When a decision is reached of whether or not to supply Yatsumica with these, the money will be sent to you in a convoy, the $2,000 will be given in solid gold bars so as to further your nations currency developement. We find no reason to wire any money for it is a waste of time if the convoys are as well defended as they tend to be."

Truly Yours
Al Rhijid- chancellor of finance
Lor Pallad- chancellor of defence
Horad Kahrim- chancellor of international affairs

Crazed Marines, your order has passed through oyur accounting departments. It was a pleasure doing business. Please keep Samtonia in mind for your future weapon system needs. Also, your trial period has been lifted. The buying clause is now in full effect.

Nutropinia, your order has passed through oyur accounting departments. It was a pleasure doing business. Please keep Samtonia in mind for your future weapon system needs.

Green Empire, your order is denied. No hard feelings. Please have a pleasant day.

Yatsumica, background checks are still being made on you. Hang in there!

Thank you. Field testing shall commence immeadiately (sp?). If we are pleased, we shall buy more.

Duly noted.

Also, the legal disclaimer is being updated as we speak and the new version will supercede the old one, just so you know.

OOC: Wow! Excellent illustrations, and descriptions, with realistic statitics. Kudos!

IC:

The Triancia Department of Defense would like to purchase 500 of these Artillery systems. I hope you won't mind if we modify and rename the weapon systems after purchase?

Robery Wernick
Triancian Secretary of Defense

That howitzer sounds very fun....i would like to let osama run around in a feild and i would like to fire that at him :mp5: :sniper:

Problems:

-blowback
-any jam is instantly fatal to the unit
-rate of fire creates ungodly amounts of heat

Basically, you're attempting to make a "Gatling Artillery piece". Alright, but as your barrels heat, your accuracy is going to suffer, and the piece will be moving under its own power (or shaking itself apart) under such an amount of continuous impact from firing all those shells.

By the nature of the 155mm shell, why would you need to land, say, twenty shells in precisely the same place? You'd make a REALLY deep crater, but after the second hit, you're just digging. Shovels cost less.

TAG

Just absolutely amazing, that the extremely high rate of fire will achieve nothing but a short life for the whole system, not the mention the high likelihood of overheating.

OOC: Can you say CRUSADER - USA USA USA - J/k nice picture though

IC: The Armed States would like to purchase 20 Cru....I mean SM2001 155mm self-propelled howitzers.

The Total is 90 million correct

Trianca- It is fine. Of course, no warranties after mods are committed, but you understand. Your order is cleared.

Scoyle- Actually not USA. Considering that production was dropped by the DOD and the contract was terminated, I would say it'll never be built. But yes, I did base it off the Crusader. And your order is cleared as well.

Sino:
Overheating issues- First off, that is the MAXIMUM ROF. C'mon. Really. If you need to fire that many shells, overheating is probably the least of your worries.

Second, read the stats on the barrel design. It employs a radical new system of cooling recently developed that is being put in all artillery production within the next year, if it hasen't been already. I'll get more info for you on that.

Wearing out of barrel- again, new designms. And yes, extended periods of maximum firing may warp barrels, but that isn't recommended, and even if they do, the entire system is modular, for easy replacement of things like the gun barrel.
Vastiva:

Jams aren't fatal, considering:
1. What modern artillery piece jams whhen undamaged? Give me an example. Because it's got to be one crappy system to jam. After all, computer controlled, highly calibrated, etc.... No modern artillery jams.

2. Again, computer systems to regulate all those menial things.

3. Ability for three crew to un-jam it. What else would they do, sit around and complain?

As before, it's not gatling, that's the highest ROF possible . Not the most accurate or economical, but it exists for a reason. And c'mon, do you trhink this has no heat dissipation systems? again, i'll get back to you on the exact advances, but they're big. Evolving the face of artillery as we know it. Because if I wanted to make gatling artillery I would- That is, artillery pieces with multiple barrels. anything else just is artillery with a high ROF.

AS for your complaints about los of accuracy, vehicle shaking- Computers shjould be able to take into account rapid fire and shifting of the barrel, don't you think? Yes, in case you didn't know that. It's called next-gen artillery because most systems in this were created especially for the Crusader in the late '90s, early 2000s.

And vehicle shaking? You don't know much about artillery, do you? Guns can't fire on the move. the have to stop, unlimber, get their fire points set up and....wait for it.... brace themselves against the ground.

Yes, every artillery piece ever created braces themselves so they don't go shaking themselves apart.

And c'mon. Why think so close minded about shells? Maybe ther's a bunker. Maybe you need to douse and area with napalm rounds. There are pklenty of scenarios where accuracy is great- Wait, every use of artillery are those scenarios. Of course you want accuracy! The more the better! UIt mit be a bit anal, but better to the mm than a km away!

Vastiva:

Jams aren't fatal, considering:
1. What modern artillery piece jams whhen undamaged? Give me an example. Because it's got to be one crappy system to jam. After all, computer controlled, highly calibrated, etc.... No modern artillery jams.



Yours will. I ran it past an engineer. He gave the system a 10 to 30% reliability factor at best. You see, you're fighting physics. When you send a shell one way, that force goes the other way as well. And in the case of self-propelled guns, that means it goes into the gun. Therefore, things shake up, quiver, break, stress, etc.

With your multiple firing system, a jam means you put a shell into a shell and WHOMP! No more gun. Especially at the ROF you have.



2. Again, computer systems to regulate all those menial things.


GREAT! That's your most vulnerable point, because you're screwing it up yourself.


3. Ability for three crew to un-jam it. What else would they do, sit around and complain?


Do they have time? At 10 rpm, that's six seconds between "What happened?" and BOOM.



As before, it's not gatling, that's the highest ROF possible . Not the most accurate or economical, but it exists for a reason. And c'mon, do you trhink this has no heat dissipation systems? again, i'll get back to you on the exact advances, but they're big. Evolving the face of artillery as we know it. Because if I wanted to make gatling artillery I would- That is, artillery pieces with multiple barrels. anything else just is artillery with a high ROF.

AS for your complaints about los of accuracy, vehicle shaking- Computers shjould be able to take into account rapid fire and shifting of the barrel, don't you think? Yes, in case you didn't know that. It's called next-gen artillery because most systems in this were created especially for the Crusader in the late '90s, early 2000s.


Thanks bub. I know about the systems. Did you know what your particular brand of directed impacts are going to do to the computers?



And vehicle shaking? You don't know much about artillery, do you? Guns can't fire on the move. the have to stop, unlimber, get their fire points set up and....wait for it.... brace themselves against the ground.

Yes, every artillery piece ever created braces themselves so they don't go shaking themselves apart.

George, the amount of force that will be inside the vehicle before dissipating down the braces is incredible. It may not move but it will be causing itself all sorts of internal hell each time it goes to that 10 rpm rate.



And c'mon. Why think so close minded about shells? Maybe ther's a bunker. Maybe you need to douse and area with napalm rounds. There are pklenty of scenarios where accuracy is great- Wait, every use of artillery are those scenarios. Of course you want accuracy! The more the better! UIt mit be a bit anal, but better to the mm than a km away!

There are selective missions where repeated accuracy would be useful - naval bombardment comes to mind. However, this feature limits the usefulness of the gun. Normally, landing ten shells on the same land is a waste of nine shells.

If you're going to ask for commentary on your design, it behooves you to remain polite when given it. Otherwise, you might not get it next time.

The Triancian Defense Department has wired 6.237 billion Triancian Dollars to Samontonia account, the equivalent of 2.250 billion USD. We hope to continue this bussiness relationship, and we are also interested in seeing what other wares you have for sale.

For the record, 25 pounder crews manually feeding guns in WWII were able to reach absolutely astronomical rates of fire, well in excess of the figures stated here. For example, they had a rapid rate of over 15 shells a minute and sustained rates of over 1000 shells a day. Most Modern SPAs (MSTA-S 2S19, PALADIN, CAESAR) can reach maximum fire rates of 8 rounds a minute, and some have burst rates of one shell every three seconds. The multiple shell time on target fire system is more or less identical to south african systems. I don't see any reason why this shouldn't work too.

For the record, 25 pounder crews manually feeding guns in WWII were able to reach absolutely astronomical rates of fire, well in excess of the figures stated here. For example, they had a rapid rate of over 15 shells a minute and sustained rates of over 1000 shells a day. Most Modern SPAs (MSTA-S 2S19, PALADIN, CAESAR) can reach maximum fire rates of 8 rounds a minute, and some have burst rates of one shell every three seconds. The multiple shell time on target fire system is more or less identical to south african systems. I don't see any reason why this shouldn't work too.


Yes, they can reach that rof, but they can't sustain it. The reason is just as I said - the force of the recoil and thrust against the SPA shakes everything inside up.

Most modern SPAs are pains in the rear when it comes to maintaining them for just this reason, and more SPAs are put out of commission because of "self inflicted wounds" then by enemy fire, because it only takes a few parts being made "non-responsive" to make the SPA battlefield-useless.

As to the manual loaders - why, shoah, honey! That there's a rather simple gun, and they didn't much care where the shell hit. They also were not using computers, they were using manual equipment to aim. Much harder to break something like that. Computers, well, they's sensitive, particularly when gettin' hoofed around like that. And SPAs are known for being, well, mulish, when it comes to breaking down - there's a whole hell of a lot more to break inside an SPA then on a piece of towed artillery.

Let's not compare apples and bananas again, ok?

And yes, you CAN "burst rate" at 1 round every 3 seconds. Not a problem. However - again - one shell jams and kerblooey, scratch one SPA.

This isn't a discussion about whether SPA's are effective tools of war, darling. It's a discussion about this particular artillery peice, and if you re-read the initial few paragraphs, you'd realize that the 10 rounds a minute is a MAXIMUM fire rate, not sustained. All of the objections you've raised are against SPAs in general, which are almost all highly computerized and sophisticated, and not against this specific one. Perhaps you ought to raise them with DARPA.

Trianca, your order is shipped. It was a pleasure doing business with you!