NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm a fairly large nation, with a population of 3.3 billion, but I've only recently become interested in RPing. I've been slowly figuring out the numbers for my navy, and I was wondering if I could get some input on it. I imagine the Democratic Colonies focuses most of its military spending on its navy and airforce.

I've divided up much of my navy into carrier battlegroups and fleets for organizational purposes.

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Composition of one Colonial Battlegroup:

3 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers - 182 fixed-wing aircraft each, 144 of them combat aircraft. Total of all carriers in one battlegroup = 546 fixed-wing aircraft, 432 of them combat aircraft

2 x Crusader Class Battleships - armed with 4 x 24" guns, 6 x 16" guns and 12 x 5" guns, as well as Tomahawk and Harpoon missiles.

4 x Ticonderoga II Class AEGIS Crusiers
6 x Arliegh Burke Class AEGIS Destroyers
4 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class ASW Frigates
8 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
1 x Seabourne Resupply Ship
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With 3 battlegroups forming a fleet, and a total of 5 complete fleets at this time, I have a total of (not counting non-carrier battlegroup assigned ships I'm about to add after this):

45 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers
30 x Crusader Class Battleships
60 x Ticonderoga II Class Crusiers
90 x Arliegh Burke Class Destroyers
60 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates
120 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
15 x Seabourne Resupply Ships


And then adding in the ships not assigned to the carrier battlegroups to those that are, I'm imagining a grand total for the enitre navy of:

45 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers
30 x Crusader Class Battleships
76 x Ticonderoga II Class Crusiers
150 x Arliegh Burke Class Destroyers
120 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates
160 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
32 x Harpers Ferry Class Marine Transport Ships
34 x Seabourne Resupply Ships


Any input would be appriciated. I really wouldn't be suprised if my navy was way off and either too big or too small. Especially with those 45 carriers - I'm really starting to think I should eliminate an entire fleet of them and go down to 36 of them.

I'm a fairly large nation, with a population of 3.3 billion, but I've only recently become interested in RPing. I've been slowly figuring out the numbers for my navy, and I was wondering if I could get some input on it. I imagine the Democratic Colonies to focus most of its military spending on its navy and airforce.

I've divided up most of my fleet into carrier battlegroups and fleets for organizational purposes.

-----
Composition of one Colonial Battlegroup:

3 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers - 182 fixed-wing aircraft each, 144 of them combat aircraft. Total of all carriers in one battlegroup = 546 fixed-wing aircraft, 432 of them combat aircraft

2 x Crusader Class Battleships - armed with 4 x 24" guns, 6 x 16" guns and 12 x 5" guns, as well as Tomahawk and Harpoon missiles.

4 x Ticonderoga II Class AEGIS Crusiers
6 x Arliegh Burke Class AEGIS Destroyers
4 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class ASW Frigates
8 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
1 x Seabourne Resupply Ship
-----

With 3 battlegroups forming a fleet, and a total of 5 complete fleets at this time, I have a total of (not counting non-carrier battlegroup assigned ships I'm about to add after this):

45 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers
30 x Crusader Class Battleships
60 x Ticonderoga II Class Crusiers
90 x Arliegh Burke Class Destroyers
60 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates
120 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
15 x Seabourne Resupply Ships


And then adding in the ships not assigned to the carrier battlegroups to those that are, I'm imagining a grand total for the enitre navy of:

45 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers
30 x Crusader Class Battleships
76 x Ticonderoga II Class Crusiers
150 x Arliegh Burke Class Destroyers
120 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates
160 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
32 x Harpers Ferry Class Marine Transport Ships
34 x Seabourne Resupply Ships


Any input would be appriciated. I really wouldn't be suprised if my navy was way off and either too big or too small. Especially with those 45 carriers - I'm really starting to think I should eliminate an entire fleet of them and go down to 36 of them.

I would say that this is very small for a country that has a population of 3.362 billion. You have a navy of 647 that is very small. I have a total fleet of 1345 ships and I'm about 1/4 your size. You should have more ships. You should have around this many ships:
110 Carriers
110 Battleships
335 Cruisers
550 Destroyers
675 Frigates
360 Submarines
400 Amphibious Assualt/Troop Transports (I would suggest the Wasp Class)
475 Resupply and Support ships

EDIT: Also it has been shown that Carriers work best when they are grouped in fours. So I would suggest 4 carriers per Fleet. This is what a battlegroup should look like:
4 Carriers
4 Battleships/Battle Cruisers (Like the Kirov Class)
12 or 16 Cruisers
16 or 20 Destroyers
20 or 24 Frigates
Divided into 4 Carrier Battlegroups:
1 Carrier
1 Battleship/Battle Cruiser
3 or 4 Cruisers
4 or 5 Destroyers
5 or 6 Frigates

Thanks for your input Morathania. :)

I'll OOC expand my navy to a size closer to what you've suggested. I've been putting down the names of my carriers and battleships in an OpenOffice spreadsheet, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to continue that with ~110 carriers. Perhaps I'll only continue naming the carriers, but not the battleships.

Anyways, I'll have a look into the Wasp Class instead of the Harper's Ferry Class as my Marine transport. Thank you again for your input, it's much appriciated.

All in all I think my first numbers for Battleships and Carriers were slightly high I think no more than 90 Carriers and Battleships I think would work better.

I see. I haven't started making any changes yet, so there's no harm done there. Since my carriers are much larger than the Nimitz class that I suppose many nations use, I would expect to have a total number of carriers lower than many other nations of my size.

Oh then definitely. All those numbers are for normal American made Ships, Nimitz, Iowa Class, Ticonderoga II, Arliegh Bruke, Perry Class I do not know your full stats for your ships. These are just loose numbers to help you.

Okay, in that case, my numbers for my carriers seem to be pretty close to right - you recommended ~90 or less carriers of ~Nimitz Class capacity, and I initally started with 45 Pax Magellanic Class Carriers, which have ~twice the number of embarked aircraft that a Nimitz would have, therefore my 45 Pax Magllanic Class are around equal to 90 Nimitz Class. So, I now think I'll keep my 45 carriers, but really increase the number of Ticonderoga II's, Arliegh Burkes, Oliver Hazard Perry's, etc. to around the levels you recommend. I'm probably going to have a lower number of battleships than you recommend though; I generally have a preference for lower cost guided missile crusiers like the Ticonderoga II's over battleships. I suppose that's just a matter of personal taste though.

Again, thanks for the advice, it's been quite helpful. :)

I'm a fairly large nation, with a population of 3.3 billion, but I've only recently become interested in RPing. I've been slowly figuring out the numbers for my navy, and I was wondering if I could get some input on it. I imagine the Democratic Colonies to focus most of its military spending on its navy and airforce.

I've divided up most of my fleet into carrier battlegroups and fleets for organizational purposes.

-----
Composition of one Colonial Battlegroup:

3 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers - 182 fixed-wing aircraft each, 144 of them combat aircraft. Total of all carriers in one battlegroup = 546 fixed-wing aircraft, 432 of them combat aircraft

2 x Crusader Class Battleships - armed with 4 x 24" guns, 6 x 16" guns and 12 x 5" guns, as well as Tomahawk and Harpoon missiles.

4 x Ticonderoga II Class AEGIS Crusiers
6 x Arliegh Burke Class AEGIS Destroyers
4 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class ASW Frigates
8 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
1 x Seabourne Resupply Ship
-----

With 3 battlegroups forming a fleet, and a total of 5 complete fleets at this time, I have a total of (not counting non-carrier battlegroup assigned ships I'm about to add after this):

45 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers
30 x Crusader Class Battleships
60 x Ticonderoga II Class Crusiers
90 x Arliegh Burke Class Destroyers
60 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates
120 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
15 x Seabourne Resupply Ships


And then adding in the ships not assigned to the carrier battlegroups to those that are, I'm imagining a grand total for the enitre navy of:

45 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers
30 x Crusader Class Battleships
76 x Ticonderoga II Class Crusiers
150 x Arliegh Burke Class Destroyers
120 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates
160 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
32 x Harpers Ferry Class Marine Transport Ships
34 x Seabourne Resupply Ships


Any input would be appriciated. I really wouldn't be suprised if my navy was way off and either too big or too small. Especially with those 45 carriers - I'm really starting to think I should eliminate an entire fleet of them and go down to 36 of them.
I would say that you have realistic navy, you succeeded in not being a number wanker.
Nice job, very nice.
However the standard seems to be operating a military that is overblown.
Your standing navy is very reasonable, but bulk it up to around 800 ships just on principle.
Like I said though good job not having a ridiculous figure, since you are are talking atl east a thousand people on each carrier several hundred on each of the other ships, then there are all the support vessel crews, the shoremen, then there is the fact you want to also have an Army and an Airforce, so no keeping your navy to under a thousand vessels is good.

Well, I have over 1500 ships, but a small and underdeveloped air force and army.

I've revised my navy numbers so I now have 2845 ships. I've also slightly increased the number of suface combatants in my carrier battlegroups, although I intend to mainly rely on the carrier airwings to keep hostile ships at arms length. I'm still looking into whether I should use the Harper's Ferry Class or the Wasp Class. New battlesgroup composition is:

Composition of one Colonial Battlegroup:

3 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers - 182 fixed-wing aircraft each, 144 combat aircraft each. Total = 546 fixed-wing aircraft, 432 combat aircraft

2 x Crusader Class Battleships - armed with 4 x 24" guns, 6 x 16" guns and 12 x 5" guns, as well as Tomahawk and Harpoon missiles.

6 x Ticonderoga II Class AEGIS Crusiers
10 x Arliegh Burke Class AEGIS Destroyers
4 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates
10 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
1 x Seabourne Resupply Ship

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The new numbers for the entire navy of the Democratic Colonies are:

Total Ships for Entire Colonial Navy
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45 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers
30 x Crusader Class Battleships
340 x Ticonderoga II Class Crusiers
560 x Arliegh Burke Class Destroyers
460 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates
530 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
210 x Ohio Class Submarines
120 x Harper's Ferry Class Marine Transports
450 x Seabourne Resupply Ships

Total Ships = 2845



Input would be much appriciated. I didn't include that many transports because I don't have too big of an army. I don't intend to get involved in too many ground combat situations. Morathania's actually got me concerned that my navy's too small now - although I have 4 times his population, my navy is only about twice as big in terms of number of ships. I don't really wish to bulk up on battleships like Morathania suggests, so I'm thinking about the possibility of adding another fleet (3 carrier battlegroups, that would be 9 carriers total + escorts) to my navy to make up for the 60 battleships I'm short of if Morathania's suggestion is followed. Any thoughts on that?

It still has been shown by the US Navy that using 4 carriers together in a fleet vastly helps their ability to fight.

Is it reasonable. Are you practically landlocked or are you island based.

My other nation (its modern tech) has a navy that is actually maybe 1/4 of the size of your navy, but its based on several islands and so its primary concern is its navy. Its about 1/6 of your size. Is your nation militaristic? Economic strength?

(mines pretty paranoid and has recently aquired an "all consuming economy, without me trying... im so proud.. Orange state has been beyond that for ages though)

My Pax Magellanic Class Carriers are much larger than the Nimitz Class the US uses though. The 3 Pax Magellanics I place into battlegroups are around equal to 6 Nimitzes in terms of embarked aircraft, and in my admittedly very limited RP experience, it has seemed like even 3 Pax Magellanics are not enough to do alot of good in a major combat situation and I have to combine 2 battlegroups to form a task force of 6 Pax Magellanics, around equal to 12 Nimitz Class inorder to really get involved in things without getting wiped out. If I were to change my organization structure and group the carriers into battlegroups of 4, I think a standard battlegroup would still be slightly underpowered for most larger RPs, and 2 battlegroups combined into a taskforce would be too large for most RPs.



Currently, my organizational structure is this:

1 Battlegroup has: 3 Pax Magellanic Class Carriers (Equal to 6 Nimitz Class) - The smallest unit I would send into a major combat RP, would probably be sent in to deal with smaller situations most of the time

1 Naval Taskforce has: 2 Battlegroups (Which have a total of 6 Pax Magellanics, which are equal to 12 Nimitzes) - The unit I would often send into major combat RPs, since they are usually large enough so they can get involved in the action while being able to defend themselves

1 Fleet has: 3 Battlegroups, (Which have a total of 9 Pax Magellanics, which are equal to 18 Nimitz Class) - Haven't had to break one of these out in an RP yet, the unit I would send into actual war RPs as opposed to the more "limited action" RPs I usually prefer



If I were to change my battlegroup composition to include 4 Pax Magellanics, I think the battlegroups would be overkill in small situations, but still not strong enough participate in the larger situations. The Taskforce organization would change to 8 Pax Magellanics, which I think would be overkill for most situations. Personally, I think my 3 Pax Magellanics for smaller type incidents and 6 for larger incidents is a good structure. While 4 Nimitizes working together is probably the ideal number for that class, my Pax Magellanics are much larger, so I've had to rework to numbers a bit both to because of the capabilities of the Pax Magellanic Class, as well as my admittedly very limited previous experiences.

And in response to Orange state, my nation's economy is rated as "Frightening", and my nation is a collection of islands. I wouldn't really say that my nation is overly militaristic, but it does believe that a strong, technologically advanced military is important. I would put it's militaristic tendencies at around the level of the British in real life, perhaps slightly higher, but around there.

OOC: Well its not for the complement of aircraft that they work in fours. Its because that way they can provide support to mroe escort vessels. With three carriers no matter how big they are they are limited because of the range of their aircraft. 4 carriers work best because they can have CAP protection over the enitre fleet. 4 is just the best way to cover you entire fleet with air coverage. It also adds an extra carrier so that you can strike at different areas within a country or you can move one or two of your carriers toward another military target without harming the combat effectiveness of your fleet.

OOC: Well its not for the complement of aircraft that they work in fours. Its because that way they can provide support to mroe escort vessels. With three carriers no matter how big they are they are limited because of the range of their aircraft. 4 carriers work best because they can have CAP protection over the enitre fleet. 4 is just the best way to cover you entire fleet with air coverage. It also adds an extra carrier so that you can strike at different areas within a country or you can move one or two of your carriers toward another military target without harming the combat effectiveness of your fleet.

I see. Thank you for clairifying that, when you put it that way, I can see why it would be a good idea. I'm currently re-organizing my navy now, but I'm pretty sure 45 carriers won't split evenly into battlegroups of 4. I'll probably add in more carriers at the end to ensure an even unit split. I'll post what I've changed once I'm done, I've currently got my carriers organized on a spreadsheet, so I'm just moving them around now.

Just put one carrier in reserve. then you'll have 44. That way you'll have 11 Fleets of 4 Carriers each.

I've completed the re-organization of my navy. Now:

4 Carriers + escorts = 1 Battlegroup

2 Battlesgroups = 1 Naval Task Force

3 Battlegroups = 1 Fleet

With 4 complete fleets in the Colonial Navy. I have added a few more carriers to my navy, but since the total number of battlegroups went down and I was only assigning my battleships to battlegroups, my number of battleships went down. I also increased the number of escorts in a battlegroup again because of the additional carrier present. Now, one Colonial Battlegroup is:


----------
Composition of one Colonial Battlegroup:

4 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers - 182 fixed-wing aircraft each, 144 combat aircraft each. Total = 728 fixed-wing aircraft, 576 combat aircraft

2 x Crusader Class Battleships - armed with 4 x 24" guns, 6 x 16" guns and 12 x 5" guns, as well as Tomahawk and Harpoon missiles.

8 x Ticonderoga II Class AEGIS Crusiers
14 x Arliegh Burke Class AEGIS Destroyers
8 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates
10 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
2 x Seabourne Resupply Ships
----------


The numbers for my entire navy as a whole also went down. The current numbers for my navy, broken down into those assigned to carrier battlegroups, squadren/individual ship commands, and then a grand total of everything:

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Assigned to Carrier Battlegroups, 1st through 4th Fleet
----------
48 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers
24 x Crusader Class Battleships
96 x Ticonderoga II Class Cruisers
168 x Arliegh Burke Class Destroyers
96 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Destroyers
120 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
24 x Seabourne Resupply Ships




Colonial Navy Vessels Assigned to Squadren or Individidual Commands
----------
250 x Ticonderoga Class Crusiers - (1 Squadren = 4 Crusiers. Squadrens 1 through 35 = 140. 110 on individual assignment. 140+110 = 250)

410 x Arliegh Burke Class Destroyers - (1 Squadren = 4 Destroyers. Squadrens 1 through 28 = 112. 298 on individual assignment. 112+298 = 410)

400 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates - (1 Squadren = 4 Frigates. Squadrens 1 through 80 = 320. 80 on individual assignment. 320+80 = 400)

380 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines - (1 Squadren = 4 Submarines. Squardrens 1 through 60 = 240. 140 on individual assignment. 240+140 = 280)

210 x Ohio Class Submarines - (1 Squadren = 4 Submarines. Squadrens 1 through 20 = 80. 130 on individual assignment. 80+130 = 210)

120 x Harper's Ferry Class Marine Transports - Attached individually on a per-mission basis to battlegroups, crusier or destroyer squadrens.

435 x Seabourne Resupply Ships - Attached individually on a per-mission, as needed basis to battlegroups, squadrens, single ships or submarines, or areas of operation.




Total Ships for Entire Colonial Navy
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48 x Pax Magellanic Class Aircraft Carriers
24 x Crusader Class Battleships
346 x Ticonderoga II Class Crusiers
578 x Arliegh Burke Class Destroyers
496 x Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigates
500 x Sea Wolf Class Submarines
210 x Ohio Class Submarines
120 x Harper's Ferry Class Marine Transports
459 x Seabourne Resupply Ships

Total Ships = 2781
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I'm still not sure if they're totally realistic figures. I'm thinking about adding in another fleet of 3 carrier battlegroups (that would be 12 aircraft carriers + escorts), would that be reasonable? Any more input would be appriciated, you've been a great help so far.

484 ships for me. It used to 777 ships but I thought that was too big.
Besides, I've been naming my ships for my own personal site.

When you get to a decent size of popualtion the focus of your military should shift from "what numbers should i have?" to "what numbers do i actually need?"

Does your political/military stance require an active offensive force capable of deploying any where in the world? (in which case you really need at least 4 major naval comands) or are you merely looking at the ability to protect your shipping while retaining a fast reaction force for deployment in certain circumstances.

Carriers are very much offensive vessels and unless you desire the ability to attack more than one antiona t a time you really don't need many of them, for comerce protection small groups of corvets, frigates, destroyers and light SVTOL/helicopter carriers are all you really need.

Your numbers seem fine to me there is little point in going bigger in your main lsitings as if you ever faced a real emergency you coudl always rush produce a lot more vessels.
Also thigns tend to get expoentatially expensive when you start talking about vessel numbers in the thousands keeping a fleet of that sort of size supplied with sweets and ammo is easily going to cost well into the $1-10trillion region (it may be less but it just soemthign i use a sball park figure).

Generally, I want my navy to be able to project power to distant areas within a reasonable timespan. I think the best examples of what I want out of my navy are in the RPs I've previously been involved in.

My first RP, when the numbers for my navy were even less solid then they are now, was when the nation Cherry Ridge was killing teachers for teaching evolution, doctors for performing abortions, etc. - basically anything the Cherry Ridge Catholic Church didn't approve of, and my IC response was to deploy a naval task force, which at the time was 6 Pax Magellanic Class Carriers and thier escorts, and demand that Cherrry Ridge either stop thier activities at once or allow us to evacuate any non-Catholics from the Catholic fundamentalist nation. I was able to use the threat of violence as leverage for diplomatic negotiations, and when talks broke down and I was attacked by a force of 500 MiG 21 fighters, I was able to repel them with the assistance of allies even though most of my combat aircraft were away supporting an allied bombing sortie and were unavailable for the duration of the attack.

Later on, a naval task force of 6 Pax Magellanic Class Carriers and thier escorts, along with 24 Sea Wolf Class Submarines participated in a blockade of the nation Sparten when they began commiting genocide on thier Israelite slave population.

I want my navy to continue to be able to perform actions in the same vein as the ones outlined above, in distant places, in a timely manner, with enough force to both protect themselves and if required, attack the enemy in order to secure my objectives - be they the evacuation of non-Catholic refugees, or the stopping of genocide.