NationStates Jolt Archive

The Republic of Sharina announces its next project: The Aeolus anti-aircraft battery.

Based on our successes with our R&D of our Colossus Artillery, we have decided to open up a project to design an anti-aircraft defense that could protect our Colossus Artillery, as well as critical areas of our nation.

We are planning to meet the following goals:

1. Ability to shoot down aircraft flying at speeds of Mach 5.0 at most. Our recently purchased Markov Fighters can go at Mach 4.5 and they will be used in testing.

2. Long range capacity, within 200 - 400 kilometers, to ensure that these Mach 2 and 3 bombers won't get too close to do serious damage to our coastline, or our cities.

3. Provide a high probability of success in shooting down aircraft.

4. A mobile platform so the batteries can be moved to adjust coverage, or to cover other batteries flanks.

5. Easy to quickly assemble, so that consolidated territory or current held areas can be reinforced quicky.

6. Ability to shoot down cruise and ICBM missiles. (Secondary goal).


Work and research is slated to begin within a few days.


Thank you,
President Rand Veristek

We already make such weapons:
http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/skycleaner2.htm

While we can not sell them to you, we would be more than happy to help you develop your own.... possibly a weaker variant of our own, which would more suit your mentioned criteria.

OOC EDIT: Upon rereading your goals, I remember we have a mobile platform version, the Mark III sky cleaner. The stats are not up to date on the site, and we are still working on the mobility issue. We do have it in the works though, but it involves some serious aerospace technology for the transport.

http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/rsig1.jpg (http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/rmtdex.htm)

Bump for Sharina.


Ooc: You on yahoo?


Ic: We may purchase a few of these if the price is right and they appear to have promise.

Scorpion SAM
Seaker: Active/semi active pulse-doppler radar, passive IR
Maximum range: 200 km
Maximum altitude: 40 000m
Rocket: Two stage solid fuel rocket... one stage for cruise, one for attack
Speed: 3 000km/h cruising, 10 000km/h terminal attack phase
Warhead size: 150kg or 100kt-500kt nuke

The scorpion missile is a vertically launched theatre air defence system, often deployed in conjunction with the smaller, shorter ranged Arbalist missile to give a layered air defence. Typically used at sea, the Scorpion is launched from standard VLS tubes, weighing 1800 kg and having a length of 7.5m. Two can also be carried on a special mobile launch platform, or they can be ship mounted. Imidietly after launch, they begin climbing high over the target, and exicute a top attack, limiting the chance of evasion. The fragmentation warhead has a 98% kill radius of 10m against standard bombers and fighters, and will damage or kill any aircraft within 100. In the event of a warhead malfunction, the missile will continue tracking the target and attempt to exicute a kinetic kill attack, though success is rather limited. In emergencies, the scorpion can be launched at surface targets, where it's 150kg warhead can cause signifigant damage.
$600 000


This SAM, when combined with a stealthed frigate like our Mantis FFG-S should be able to provide theatre air defence for your coastline. If you should happen to develope a superior system, we would be delighted to invest or purchase the technology for use in domestic systems.

Important announcement from Sharina R&D.

We have decided on a wheeled chassis for our Aeolus. Wheeled chassis provides far more mobility and agility than tread based systems, as well as providing quicker assembly times.

However, we are considering adding a secondary mobility system of light treads for extreme terrain, or if the tires are damaged.


In addition, we have decided on two types of ordiance to research for our Aeolus.

Ordiance 1: Miniature missiles to overwhelm any airforce, using the "Swarm Effect".

Ordiance 2: Airborne Fire Bombs, to combat large jet-fighter squadrons. It may also be used to complement the Colossus Artillery in bombarding ground invasions by blanketing beach-heads in sheets of fire.

A possible 3rd ordiance is being looked at, using the template of shrapnel based shells used by the Colossus Artillery.


Research is underway on mobility and ordiance systems as of right now. We expect it to be complete within several months or a year at most.


President Rand Veristek

I don't think airborne firebombs would be good for taking out fighters, but your option 3 is definately a good bet. Fill a shell of that size with flachette needles and you'll cut anything into swiss cheese.

I don't think airborne firebombs would be good for taking out fighters, but your option 3 is definately a good bet. Fill a shell of that size with flachette needles and you'll cut anything into swiss cheese.


Flachette shells are nasty!

IC: You haven't stated if you want the money I offered to help this research... Also...

Ooc: You on yahoo, if you want to get some RP in, we should do it now while I have plenty of free time.

OOC: I believe firebombs could be used to do the following:

Disrupt fighter formations, causing them to swerve off course and create chaos. Formations will have to waste precious time getting back together, or individual jet fighters risk being picked apart one by one.

Cause extreme heat upon aircraft and missile chassis, creating deformations in the metal, skewing up aerodynamics considerably.

The sudden change in air tempatures, causing violent drafts and turbelence.

No residual damage, such as radiation created by Raysian Military Tech's Sky Cleaners using 1 kt nuclear loads.


Computers can analyze incoming jet fighter vectors, then adjust the Firebombs trajectory accordingly. The Firebombs will be mounted on missiles to provide very fast response. They will also be accompanied by several dozen miniature missiles to confuse jet-fighters countermeasures and chaff.



Shrapnel type shells from our Colossus are also being adapted for Mach speeds and mounting on a missile chassis.

Flechette and fragmentation types of shrapnel are being researched and in development as of right now.



Our planned Micro-Missiles are approximately 25 centimeters long. Intense research is being undertaken to provide Mach 5 speeds for such small missile chassis. Guidance systems are almost complete for the Micro-Missile System.

If all goes well, the Aeolus Anti-Aircraft battery could fire 100 - 200 Micro-Missiles every 10 seconds, and hold 25 Micro-Missiles per Micro-Launcher. One Aeolus could theoretically pump out 2,000 to 5,000 Micro-Missiles in 7 minutes or so (Then have to do a complete reload from ammo dumps), which would create a cloud of projectiles that would be extremely difficult to evade or bypass.

This would be a machine gun analog of Applied Missile Technology.

Bump!

I want some feedback on my ideas and R&D.

OOC:
We already make such weapons:
http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/skycleaner2.htm
Is that the Stonehenge from Shattered Skies? Cuz' man, if it is, that's one heck of an AA gun! It's one heck of an ANYTHING gun!

Bump! Feedback and advice on my R&D ideas and applications, please.

The main problem for such a small missile would be fuel. Since most modern aircraft fly rather high off the ground, and a firebomb necessitates some kind of explosive, I don't see you being able to get it off of the ground, into a high enough altitude, and still have enough boom left to create the kind of heat to warp metal near instantly. After all, aircraft flying through this quickly are only going to be exposed to the heat for under a second.
Finally, such an object would be under tremendous stresses at mach 5, making manoeuvering impossible. (I'm not going to bring up whether it would be able to move at that speed without destroying itself, because I don't know.

I certainly think the colossus AA shell variant has potential though.

Oh, and I'm working under the assumption that the micromissiles and the firebombs are one and the same.

I think aprt of the problem here is that you are a bit unclear as to exactly what goals you are aiming at acheiving.

In your first post you are basically out lining a strategic level air defense system but soem of your ideas are definatly of a tactical nature (yes you can biuld a mach 5 missile but it will have to be about 3-4 meters long to get a rnage of about 50km. A 25cm rocket would be very lucky to get out to about 2-5km).
Your fire bomb mechanism weither mounted in a missile or in a gun round isn't really going to work terribly well. It might be of soem use agaisnt densely packed air armadas but you will ahve issues with atmospheric conditions and the rate of flame porpegation (even if the warheads gets to the right palce a tthe right time the flame effect will take time to spread).

Talking about taking shells directly from your colosus cannon means you are going to need really really massive missiles, for killing ICBMs kinetic kill systems tend to work better and for massed air fleets well the balst radius still isn't goign to be terribly impressive, if you must go for such insanely sized weapons use a submunition warhead with each missile releasing a bundle of your mini missiles each of which targets a dirrefent target.

Thanks for the feedback and constructive criticsm, guys.


I was thinking of using a seperate missile or warhead for the firebomb. I was thinking if I exploded the firebombs well in advance of the jet formations, it'd cause physological problems for the pilots, as well as heating up the air considerably before the jet fighters enter it.


As for the flechette or fragmentation shells, they aren't going to be the exact shells from the Colossus. I would be applying the technology and techninques from the Colossus towards the Aeolus. Sorta like using car technology to build automobiles, then applying it to build trucks or dumpster trucks.


I thought if I used 25 cm missiles, I could create clouds that would do two things.

1. Cause fear in jet pilots

2. Provide killing "screens" or "walls".

If 25 cm missiles aren't feasible, I could enlarge it to perhaps 5 meters.


I'd be willing to throw out the firebombs if they aren't feasible. However, I believe flechette / fragementation ordiance, and larger missiles would serve my Aeolus well.


As for shooting down cruise missiles and ICBMs alike, I've been considering using laser systems, in a successful application of the Star Wars program. I have advanced energy generation and electronics for my time.

My nation is currently in the 2005 - 2015 era, but my energy generation and electronics are around the 2030 - 2050 level. Most other technologies are in the 2005 - 2015 era. My nation discovered Steam Power 50 years earlier than when RL nations did, hence the slight advanced status of my energy and electronics industries.


Hope that clears stuff up.

well designing new frag/flet warheads for missiles is a bit redundant, almsot all missles now use directional HE-frag warheads

Hmm.... Any feedback on my proposed ideas and revisions?


Also, redundancy never hurts. If I can shoot up missiles, and have them explode into shrapnel fragments (1,000 shards or more like with the Colossus "Anti-Infantry shells") in midair, instead of "missile seeks out jets via heat or radar signature" it would be more effective.

Why?

Flying metal or very hard plastic shrapnel is very difficult to dodge, can't be countered (Unless you either pile on heavy armor on the jets which isn't feasible, or shoot down the missile itself) and can cover wider areas than one "explode on impact" SAM missile.

Evasive action would be pointless because shrapnel would be sprayed everywhere in a 3 dimensional spread pattern. Also, if I launch multiple missiles, then explode them at varying heights and distance from the incoming aircraft... the aircraft could dodge the first shrapnel cloud, but then run into the 2nd or 3rd shrapnel clouds, causing its destruction.


This could cause problems if aircraft are flying over civilian targets and cities due to falling shrapnel.

This is why I'm working on the firebomb, multi-missiles (new concept described below) or possibly a Star Wars based laser scaled down to use aganist aircraft.


I've been thinking about trying another approach about the micro missile thing. I could send one moderate size missile, then once it is several kilometers from the aircraft, it bursts open, and a dozen smaller missiles make the kill run aganist the aircraft.

It would be remisicient of the mythical Hydra... one head grows into many heads.



More feedback and criticsm, please!

Well most missiles use a proximity fuse system where they explode in the general area of the target, only a few such as Patriot PAC3 and Starstreak are designed to actually hit the target.
A common SAm warhead consits of a core charge of HE surrounded by thousands of ball bearings made of steel or prefferably titanium (because titanium has a habit of becoming litterally white hot and catching fire). this warhead is generally set off by a laser proximity sensor that detects the optimium direction for dentonation.

Your proposed system is basiclaly a return the massive flak barrages of ww2 a tactic that is generally speaking achieved less expensively with greater effect using rapid fire guns.I suppose a big MLRS full of smart fused high altitude rockets could be a useful tactic. How ever this would a horribly expensive system and unless the missiles are actually giuded they wouldn't offer any real benefit appart from range over a current L77 40mm cannon with a skyguard radar.


Mini missile submuntion systems already exist in NS (trident D5s packed full of sidewinders were popular for a time) and sort of in Rl (star streak uses 3 independent kientic kill vehicles

Thanks for your feedback once again!


I was wondering if it would be better and more effective if I used high velocity shrapnel shells?

If so, I could use a scaled down design of the Colossus, and use 5 cm COIL - Railgun hybrid barrels in sets remisicient of rocket artillery. The COIL - Railgun hybrid would reduce the wear and tear on the barrel while providing a boost in range.


Also, I'm thinking of designing a multi-missile system.

Steps:

1. Large missile - 3 meters long (launched from the battery at Mach 5 speeds using COIL - Railgun firing mechanism like a shell)

2. Once the missile approaches several kilometers before the designated spot (where the aircraft will be) it splits into 10 smaller missiles of 25 to 40 cm long.

3. The smaller missiles use their miniature fuel to go to several points in a sideways circle right in front of the designated point.

4. They then explode, spewing titanium shrapnel shards, creating a sideways umbrella "kill-zone".


Using this multi-missile system, if I throw up 2 to 4 multi-missiles, it would guantree a 99% fatality rate for aircraft. When the first missile explodes, the jet might be able to dodge it, but then it will run into the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th umbrella kill zone created by the other missiles.



I am also trying to design a laser based system, using modern industrial cutting lasers to slice up incoming aircraft. Even small incisions would ruin the jet's aerodynamics with gashes and such, especially if it travels at Mach speeds.

There are lasers that are used to cut steel and other metals in modern factories. This is a feasible tech for modern tech (2000 - 2020).

The lasers could be powered by my hydrogen fuel cell generators.



What do you think?

I'm gonna stick with my 5.7mm armor-piercing version of the Phalanx, because it's cheap and works better. That or a giant Flak Cannon....

Keep in mind, my nation is lopsided in tech.

Power Generation, Construction, and Manufacturing is in the 2020 - 2050 era.

Cars, Sewage, and Genetics technologies is in the 1940 - 1970 era.

All other tech's are in the 2000 - 2015 era.

As a result, it would be "Moderate" or "Average" for Sharina to produce material and things that other nations would consider "Expensive" by Modern standards. This is due to Sharina's advanced Construction and Manufacturing technologies.

Important news bulletin:

After several crippling setbacks and problems, the Aeolus AA battery is finally put into production. It employs six defensive systems built into it to provide maximum possible defense aganist all vectors of attack.

Dimensions:

100 meters long, 35 meters wide, and 45 meters tall.

Defensive Systems:

1. Two batteries of 30 mm COIL flak cannons, one in front, and one in the rear of the platform.

The Computer Aided Accuracy System (CAAS) computes incoming aircraft vectors, and compensates for variations in wind and turblence.

The shells that are fired are semi-smart, capable of flexing its fins to adjust its trajectory based off sensors in the Aeoilus. The shells also are solid, providing additional penetrating power and near invulnerability aganist anti-missile defenses such as chaff and fake signatures.

2. Ten of the 3 meter long Xaos Mini-Missiles with a hardened exterior to provide sufficient protection aganist ABM's and "impact-kill" counter-measures.

The missiles employ smart sensors, using two or more Aeolus platforms to triangulate the aircraft, nearly eliminating the effectiveness of counter-missile measures such as chaff, dummy balls, EMP jamming, among others.

One Aeolus will employ approximately 10 of these 3 meter Mini-Xaos Missiles.

3. Six 20mm Microwave Laser cannons, three in front and three in the rear.

These Microwave Laser cannons will heat up incoming missiles, destroying aerodynmaics and vaporizing plastic components. This microwave beam employs the same technology as a microwave oven, but on a larger scale. In addition, the microwave beams are concentrated in one direction, rather than all over the place like in microwave ovens.

These Microwave Laser cannons provide Sharina with its first point-to-point defense system, with nearly instanteous response. However, these microwave systems are first generation, and are suspectible to weather conditions, namely heavy rainstorms and cloud cover.

4. Electro-Magentic Pulse (EMP) cannon. One in front and one on the rear.

The EMP cannon fires a sphere round approximately 50 centimeters in diameter, with an hardened outer shell to provide protection aganist "impact-kill" counter-measures and aircraft cannon rounds.

The EMP cannon is intended to destroy all the electronics in nuclear and conventional ICBM's and missiles, rendering them useless. These missiles may hit their targets, but the explosives or nuclear reaction will not occur as the electronics necessary to activate them will be ruined.

If the missiles have EMP protection, the Microwave Laser system is capable of burning off or reducing the protection. Failing that, the Xaos Mini-Missiles or COIL assisted cannons could blow off the armoring. Even a fracture or a very tiny exposed area would be sufficient for the EMP Sphere to destroy the electronics within the missile.

5. 100 mm Kevlar-Titanium hybrid armor and 20 mm Chobam plating.

The thick armor will cover the Aeolus's treads and propulsion systems. When in transit, the Aeolus is capable of covering its missiles, ammunition, and supplies with armor plating like an enclosing dome. This is done to prevent any blow-ups of its weapon stockpiles. The "Enclosing" armor is approximately 40 mm Kevlar-Titanium and 10mm Chobam plating.

6. Two Machine Gun emplacements, one in the front and one in the rear.

This is done to provide defense aganist infantry amd ground based non-mechnical assault. The machine guns fire 15mm rounds, capable of penetating troop body armor in excess of 10 millimeters thick.


The Aeolus employs four treads to distribute its considerable weight, and provide reunduancy in case one or two treads are destroyed. The Aeolus also employs several sensor suites to aid in detection of all sorts of aircraft, including stealth based ones.

The Aeolus employs active and passive Radar and Sonar, the brand new SQUID sensor that detects any electro-magentic activity, Infrared sensors, and assorted other sensor technologies to eliminate any form of stealth, incoming sneak attack, or prevent night-time air and missile raids.

The Aeolus is finally being put into production as the prototype has performed admirably. The Aeolus chassis has the potential for improvement and / or variations such as all-COIL, all-Missile, all-Microwave Laser, or more powerful sensory platforms.