NationStates Jolt Archive

Lumin is considering adopting and manufacturing the SR-47, or the similar customized model the SR-47L1. I want to know if anyone knows anything about this relatively new rifle in it's Real World form. Summarily, it's an M4 that fires AK-47 ammo, and can actually use picked-up AK-47 magazines.

http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/sr47l1.jpg

SR-47L1 (Lumin Mod)

Caliber 7.62x39 mm
Action gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length 1006 mm
Barrel length 508 mm
Weight, empty / loaded w. 30 rounds 2.8 kg / 3.3 kg
Magazine capacity 30 rounds (AK-47 Magazines and ammo)
Firing Modes Semi-Automatic, Burst
Rate of fire, cyclic 800 rounds per minute
Muzzle velocity 975 m/s
Maximum effective range 500 meters

Compatible with most M4 SOPMOD accessories

[It's a specops mod of the standard M4. Internal are replicas of the 47 and there's a mag release spring since the 47 mags can't simply drop out of a mag well but have to be assisted. I hear it works beautifully, although I haven't seen or shot one myself.

OOC: childs toy

OOC: personally i have always considered the SR47 and 74 as being a bit pointless i mean why not just use a decent quality AKM?

The M4/M16 mechanism is far less tolerant of crappy ammo than a rust bucket Ak47 and thus is far mroe likely to jam and to be honest any spec ops soldier should be as comfortable using a basic AK as an M4.

of course you can also add and RIS to an Ak based weapon.

In the end its an interesting sideline but not of major use

OOC: personally i have always considered the SR47 and 74 as being a bit pointless i mean why not just use a decent quality AKM?

The M4/M16 mechanism is far less tolerant of crappy ammo than a rust bucket Ak47 and thus is far mroe likely to jam and to be honest any spec ops soldier should be as comfortable using a basic AK as an M4.

of course you can also add and RIS to an Ak based weapon.

In the end its an interesting sideline but not of major useThanks for your input. I'm still trying to decide on a gun, this one just came up and looked good... i didn't consider the bad ammo aspect though... I mean, I know Bad ammo was why the original M16 jammed so much. My other rifle candidate is a retooled M16 that can fire 6.5mm rounds.

http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/m16l1.jpg

M16L1 (Lumin Mod)

Caliber 6.5x45mm
Action gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length 1006 mm
Barrel length 508 mm
Weight, empty / loaded w. 30 rounds 3.77 kg / 5.20 kg
Magazine capacity 30 rounds
Firing Modes Semi-Automatic, Burst
Rate of fire, cyclic 800 rounds per minute
Muzzle velocity 975 m/s
Maximum effective range 750 meters



M203 Grenade Launcher

Caliber 40 millimeter grenade
Barrel Length 300 mm
Length of Launcher 380 mm
Weight - Unloaded 1.4 kg
Weight - Loaded 1.6 kg
Weight of M16LM and M203 approx. 6.8 kg
Operation Pump Action, Breech Loading Single Shot
Muzzle velocity 71 m/s
Maximum Effective Range (area targets) 380 m
Maximum Effective Range (point targets) 165 m

I would prefer an HK32KA3 over the SR-47L1.

It can use the 39 mm soviet ammo, and it's made by Heckler & Koch.

http://www.hkpro.com/image/hk32k.jpg

Check out any of the ones I sell, mostly HK products though.

http://www.freewebs.com/beretino/assaultrifles.htm

I'll consider it a candidate, Agr.

Would anyone recommend the XM8?

http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/XM8_Rifle_2.jpg

The XM8 is pretty similar to the G36. Just to let you know though, in case you are interested for future reference, HK has just released its own version of the M4, called the 416.

http://dboy.cpgl.net/H&K/hkm4/ss04_hks06.jpg
ignore the guy

That HK M4 looks really cool! Mind telling me a bit more about why it's better?

And what about the british IW SA80?
http://world.guns.ru/assault/l85car.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm

I've seen this one used in a couple video games, namely SOCOM II, and I want to know if it's actually any good... I read something about the older versions being unreliable

Well the SA80 is...honestly pretty crappy.

Read the link you provided, it goes on at length about how it literally cracks under pressure.

For a modern assault rifle, the SA-80 is uncomfortable to carry (especially concerning the position of the cocking handle and its desire to slip into bruising your arm on long tabs), the rifle is too heavy for its size (it even has a weight in the forward hand guard to balance the weapon), and its reliability and general durability are sub-standard to an alarming degree. I have had the mis-pleasure of seeing people breaking off warn top covers and seeing trigger mechanism housing pins falling out near at will. On the other side of things the rifle is marvellously accurate on the range, and so long as it is kept near 100% clean and well oiled it will perform well. However everybody other than the MoD seem to realise that keeping a rifle perfectly clean when in a muddy trench for extended periods of time when it is pissing it down with rain drops the size of hamsters heads isn't exactly practical, the rifle 556 is hardly of kalashnikov quality





Now as for the HK M4, or M416. The rifle is being made by Heckler & Koch, which means that the quality over the Colt models is going to be vastly superior. It is supposed to be made out of an entirely new frame, which will make the gun more reliable, and much more durable.

It will probably use the HK gas system, seen in the XM8, which is in RL going to replace the US Army's M4s.

It can also be expected to be lighter and more solidly built.

The SA80 does have issues and while the A2 model did fix a lot of them iot still isn't perfect. The best bet would be to do what i did, just take the AR-18 design with all the changes the MOD demaded of Stoner and then bullpup it into the SA80 (the SA80 is actually based on the intial unimproved AR-18 design regected by the UK MOD).

The SA80 is a fantastically accurate rifle and in an improved form as reliable as any other rifle.


My suggestion for a rifle design would be to go with a HK G3 style weapon (probabaly most likely the HK33) with a full RIS setup and use it as your 6.5mm weapon, thus you get rock solid reliability and soemthing a little different aswell, i would steer clear of the XM8 at the moment as there are too many versions floating around NS. As an alternative have a look for pics of the G36 with the Knight's Armament RIS system it is pretty mean looking

The HK M4/M16 varients are different in that they use the closed gas system from the G36 so you don't get dirty exhaust gas dumped back into the mechanism as you would on the basic M16 which is (alongside crappy ammo) the main cause of M16 jams. the Upshot of this is that the Hk varients are apparently totally reliable and will work in situations where even an AK might fail...

so, umm, is there anything WRONG with the HK M416?

The SR-47 would have an effective range of 200-250m. A 5.56mm round has 360m effective range, with 5.56. With a fatter, shorter round, you are going to have a gun with less range, and with a round like 7.62x39mm, it will be about 200m, with the M4a1.

Overall, its a nice gun, assuming you like submachineguns.

That gun you wanna use? Not only is it bad, it's not sexy. I only use guns that work and are sexy.

You want a good gun, get the HK G36 or the TAVOR that Israel's gonna use.

so, umm, is there anything WRONG with the HK M416?

Not really, its just a much higher quality M4.

so, umm, is there anything WRONG with the HK M416?
It is too new for anyone to know and to be honest in theory it should be just about the ultimate expression of a 5.56mm AR15 based combat rifle.


Chellis: you may have noticed that he has actually decided to change the round to 6.5x45mm which while not as perfect as my 6.25x43mm ;) is a good improvement over silly little rounds like 5.56mm NATO.

The SR-47 would have an effective range of 200-250m. A 5.56mm round has 360m effective range, with 5.56. With a fatter, shorter round, you are going to have a gun with less range, and with a round like 7.62x39mm, it will be about 200m, with the M4a1.

Overall, its a nice gun, assuming you like submachineguns.


[Chellis, what the hell are you talking about? The Dragunov has an 850m effective range and uses the same round the AK-47 does. The 5.56 NATO is noted for its lack of range, the same does not hold true for the 7.62 Soviet.

Now, I'm not a big fan of Soviet gear, it's generally inferior, but Russians do know their rifles.]

Alright, i was looking at some of these models of the HKM4... they all look cool, but I like the 20inch barrel one that looks like an old-school M16.

PIC WARNING! SORRY!

http://dboy.cpgl.net/H&K/hkm4/ss04_hks01.jpg
http://dboy.cpgl.net/H&K/hkm4/ss04_hks02.jpg
http://dboy.cpgl.net/H&K/hkm4/ss04_hks03.jpg
http://dboy.cpgl.net/H&K/hkm4/ss04_hks04.jpg

OK, so right now I have 3 candidates... the M16L1 With grendel 6.5mm ammo (more powerful ammo)... the SR-47 with AK-47 ammo (reliable, powerful ammo), and the HKM4 (Very reliable, decent common ammo)

I'd suggest you use something based on something other than an M16 or SA80, with a cartridge of 6mm to 6.5mm. The Nianaciana standard rifle is probably the most reliable service assault rifle in the world (I took features from various service rifles and some features from guns that never made it into service), but it's not a real-life gun. You could copy and modify the original model for free (reliable, but not extremely so), buy the previous model (very reliable, but without features like an XM8-style sight or bullpup layout), or buy production rights to an older model and modify the design as you wish.
[Chellis, what the hell are you talking about? The Dragunov has an 850m effective range and uses the same round the AK-47 does.The Dragunov uses 7.62 x 54R, while the AK-47 uses 7.62 x 39mm M1943.

I suppose I could simply make my own gun, with an HKM4 20inch barrel frame (the one that looks like an M16), that fires 6.5mm grendel ammo... then I'd be all set!

OK, here's what I got, I'll probably Issue all of them for different roles:

http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/lr40a.jpg
LR-40A - General Assault Rifle - HKM4-type frame 6.5mm grendel ammo, closed-gas system, SOPMOD and HKGL compatible

http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/lr40b.jpg
LR-40B - Long-Range/Assault Rifle - HKM4-type frame 6.5mm grendel ammo, closed-gas system, not compatible with most SOPMOD accessories.

http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/lr40k.jpg
LR-40K - LR-40 compact - HKM4-type frame, closed-gas system, compatible with most SOPMOD accessories, uses 9mm SMG ammunition.

http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/lr40c.jpg
LR-40C - SpecOps assault rifle - HKM4-type frame, AK-47 ammo, closed-gas system, SOPMOD and HKGL compatible

Any revisions?

And, of course, I need an SI sniper rifle or two.

http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/lr25.jpg
LR-25... basically a slightly modified version of the SR-25

http://www.bateshome.com/jordan/lr82.jpg
LR-82, of course, a slightly modified M82A1 sniper rifle