NationStates Jolt Archive

The Republic of Sharina is undertaking a project to develop an artillery platform. It is termed the Colossus class Ultra-Artillery.

Our goals for this project is to create an artillery platform that can do the following:

1. Fire solid shells between 2 to 10 tons within a reasonable amount of accuracy (Within 100 meters of target is what we are trying to accomplish)

2. Be competitive with Cruise Missiles in terms of range aganist naval units.

3. Ability to bombard invading navies, notably Aircraft Carriers and Battleships.

4. Cause grievous damage to invasion beach-heads, troop formations, and massed mechanized units such as tanks, other artillery, support units, APCs, etc.

5. Flexible aiming in a 360 degree capacity, to cover its flanks.

This artillery platform is not planned to become an offensive type of artillery, due to our stance on offensive warfare, and from estimates, these artillery platforms would be prohibitive to carry overseas due to its large size.

This project is inspired by the Dora class Super Artillery from World War II, and the SuperGuns of Jonothana design.

Dora class: http://www.persuaders65.org/TTArchives/dora.jpg


In addition, we are planning additional defensive military projects in the near future.

President Rand Veristek

OOC: OMGZ DORA!!!!111 :o :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

Eh, I tried selling Dora, but all I got was criticizm...

We are interested to help you in this project.

Our experience with our old 800mm coastal guns which are quite similar to Dora/Gustav, has proven that they are very slow, inpractical and require too much men to operate. With advanced mechanisms guns that big could be made usable. They need basically mechanised loading system and complex hydraulics to move the gun itself around. The heating of barrel will still be a problem, but one barrel could endure hundreds of shots before wearing out.

Your assistance is welcome, friend Torsg.

Our engineers have announced the testing phases of two technological improvements to aid our Colossus Project.

1. Computers

Uses:

#1. Calculations of naval vessel vectors.
#2. Calculate shell trajectories.
#3. Devising potential anti-aircraft fire from the enemy navy.
#4. Increase overall accuracy based on the three major calculations.


2. Coolant systems for the main cannon

Our engineers have determined three potential cooling systems to keep a Colossus cannon from overheating, reducing internal damage and prolonging its lifespan before major repairs are required.

Potential systems:

#1. Liquid nitrogen based super-coolant, along with a recycling system to maintain a constant flow of super cold liquid.

#2. Apply a similiar water cooling system as ones used in nuclear power reactors.

#3. A refrigation type of system.



These are the two largest hurdles our engineers are facing in the development of the Colossus Ultra-Artillery. Without computers, our Colossus would have minimal accuracy. Without cooling systems, our Colossus would have a very short life-span, which would be catastrophic during invasions.


President Rand Veristek.

President Rand Veristek

We are willing to design automatised mechanical loading system for the gun. This helps to fire gun much faster and reduces amount of crew needed to operate the gun. We could also design hydraulic system for rotating the gun, this could be connected to ballistics calculation computer. In return we expect to get the full blueprints for the gun.

USSR will assit Sharina in this project. Futher details classified, and will be dispatched in telegram.

Vice-Premiere Duck Tzu

The Vastivan Scientific Research Agency (VSRA) is curiously interested in this project, and would be interested in aiding development in return for a set of plans of completed work.

We offer some technological assistance, detailed in TG

Abu ben Venkmann, VSRA

The Sharian engineers have declared several breakthroughs.

We have effectively enhanced our targeting computers to an accuracy beyond our expectations. Test firings of the Colossus Ultra-Artillery have been successful. Shells landed within an 60 x 60 meter radius with 90% accuracy.

Our work on coolant systems has progressed nicely.

We have determined that we will use two systems. The first system will be a rail gun design using magnets to reduce heat and kinetic friction. The cannon will also be supplemented by its second system. This system is going to use superconductors to reduce the heat generated by the magentic systems themselves.


The artillery will have a mode of locomotion. It will be mounted on a platform capable of railroad travel.

The Colossus will have the capacity of turning a full 360 thanks to complex hydraulic systems. The platform itself does not move, while the artillery turret is capable of the full 360 degrees.

As of right now, goal #5 is now accomplished fully.

Designs are now proceeding on shell design, to meet the other criterias.

OOC I hope you've read the logistics thread, particularly the part about rail mounted artillery

OOC:

Where can I find that thread? If the rails are too much, I can modify the platform to some different kind of mobility. Perhaps a sliding platform (large concrete slab mounted on huge steel rail, so the platform can move sideways?

The Evil Empire of Akaton will contribute ammunition to this artillery project. We can deliver one thousand shells for immediate testing free of charge. We produce solid kinetic energy penetrator rounds, high explosive shells, and self guided munitions. Our only condition is that a group of Akatonian techno-magi (scientists) can be present at the testing of the cannon.

We can assist in the construction of these, as many of them were used in the construction of our own coastal defenses:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=6747027#post6747027

Another update.

We have been experimenting with shell sizes. We have tested 1 ton shells, 2 ton shells, 5 ton shells, and the mighty 10 ton shells.

We have found that ranges were proportional to shell size. The smaller the shell, the larger the distance it can travel.

We have tested the shells and distances as following:

1 ton shell = 300 kilometers.

2 ton shell = 250 kilometers.

5 ton shell = 175 kilometers.

10 ton shell = 125 kilometers.


Shell density may change these distance ratios. Heavy explosive shells would have shorter distances such as 200 to 50 kilometers, while a hollow shell would travel in excess of 1,000 kilometers.


We have solved criterias 1, 2, and 5. Now we are working on armor piercing shells, capable of sinking aircraft carriers and battleships in one or two hits. In addition, we are experimenting with napalm, shrapnel, and chemical gas shells to counteract any ground invasion forces.

Your techno-mages may come watch our artillery, nation of Akaton.

What type, and how much, propellant are you using?

And are you going to prepare a final set of statistics for this gun when you are done?

The shells have been shipped in the sizes of 1 ton, 2 ton, 5 ton, and 10 ton.

What type, and how much, propellant are you using?

And are you going to prepare a final set of statistics for this gun when you are done?

The artillery uses magnetics to aid propelling the shells over greater distances as compared to standard "gunpowder" artillery.

I'm planning on posting rough stats for this gun.


This is actually my first "custom weapon" RP so bear with me.

OOC: If you like I can help you write more complex stats, I am fairly experienced in this matter.

OOC: If you like I can help you write more complex stats, I am fairly experienced in this matter.

OOC:

Thanks. I appreciate it a lot.

I wanted to RP develop a weapon that would be able to accurately bombard enemy ships, while making it quite difficult for the enemy to shoot down my incoming shells.

Missiles and anti-aircraft fire would have a lot difficulty destroying a 1 - 10 ton shell. I'm basing this off a modernized Dora artillery, and also was inspired by the Dora artillery used in Harry Turtledove's book "In The Balance".

Also I wanted an artillery system that would be competitive with cruise missiles while being much harder to counter. Provides a large defensive boost, doesn't it?

We are proud to announce the success of the artillery shells.

The napalm shells would be quite effective in clearing large tracts of forest, urban areas, or any cover for enemy troops and units. One shell from the prototype, using a 10 ton napalm shell, was able to completely put a 10 acre area of grassland on fire, while utterly devasating a built Hogan's Alley, with mock-ups of troops, mechanized units, and rudimentary pillboxes and bunkers.

The shrapnel shells were somewhat effective. In some tests, it penetrated solid APC armor, but failed to penetrate modern tank armor. However, it was effective in destroying troop formations. The shell is designed to burst into thousands of small pieces upon any type of ground impact, showering an area of 500 meters by 500 meters with spiked shrapnel.

Simulated Fatalities for a 10 ton shrapnel shell within:

50 meter area = 100%

100 meter area = 95%

200 meter area = 85%

300 meter area = 75%

400 meter area = 60%

500 meter area = 50%


These shells are impratical in most uses, except for eliminating large troop concentrations, and hammering invasion beach-heads with merciless destruction of infantry troops.


The Explosive shell has proven effective at coastal bombardment. Several tests were measured and analyzed, as the shells were first fired at the oceanside. Then we tested the shells on heavily reinforced and armored barges, to measure the effectiveness of shells on armored and reinforced targets. The results were as expected. Once a shell hit one of the armored barges, they shattered as 8 tons of pure explosive detonated. Several barges simply snapped in half, while others sank as a large hole sprang up where the shell hit. It all depends on the shell's trajectory before hitting the naval unit.

Surely, an aircraft carrier or battleship wouldn't survive three or four 10 ton shells at most.


We announce plans to develop mini-shells, for extra long range bombardment. We estimate the mini-shells, weighing at half a ton, would be able to travel 500 kilometers. Further tests are to be conducted.


We declare all the 5 criteria as completed. We have three final phases to accomplish.

1. Mobility system (Needs further testing)

2. Rapid shell delivery system (Being designed and tested)

3. Establishing factory and production lines for the Colossus.


We are excited that the project is nearing completion.

Simulated Fatalities for a 10 ton shrapnel shell within:




Let me tell you, you drop a 10 ton shell, it's going to level an entire city block! At least!

That's massive!

Let me tell you, you drop a 10 ton shell, it's going to level an entire city block! At least!

That's massive!

Simulations and real life can be quite different.

In real combat, the shells might do a lot more damage, or less damage. It depends on the enviroment and the terrain the shell will hit.

Imagine 3 napalm shells weighing at 10 tons each. :p Gives a whole meaning to the word "Pain", "Destruction", and urban warfare.

If enough shells are fired, there would be no need for nukes. :D

Rubberduckistan is sending the research material for Thermobaric/Fuel-Air Explosive ammunitions, for this project. Also check your telegram for more classified news. :D

We can offer asstance. Just to let you know we are currently working on :

The "Chinese" Class Supergun which requires no support. We are estimating its range at about 1.7 orbits.

The use of Electromagnetics for transporable SGs, reducing amount of explosives needed. The estimated range of Electromagnetics is 400 km, but research is going on to try and increase this to 0.5 orbits.

We are also working on a torpedo shell (torpshell) so in the event of misses naval targets can still be hit.

We will supply you with 150 billion for this project.
If we can have some when they are finished

Greetings, we are new to the world scene and the amount of war machines puzzles us.

How ever we have been following this discusion and have a few questions that will help us understand your thinking. This will tell us more about you than the weapon will.
Are these shells the same width? We are puzzled on how one gun can fire different shell weights.
How large is this weapon you are producing? We have access to satellites that provide accurate images of the NS Earth surface. So how will you hide this weapon from observation? This also lends itself to the question of how you would protect it from ranged strikes, like these "Cruise Missiles" we hear about.
If it is capable of firing 10 ton rounds then this thing must be very heavy, so special roads or tracks must be needed if it is to change location; have you determined how much this will cost to provide this special surface/ tracks?
How is this weapon more cost effective than missiles like the "cruise missile" we have heard about?

Sorry if these questions offend you, but we are still trying to understand the mindset of nations who build weapons to do large amounts of damage to a target area. We personally prefer elegant & clean weapons that do what is necessary to disable a target and no more than that (like a high powered round into an engine block of a vehical).

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/sapor.jpg
Ambassador Sazpa Stobor
The Incorporated States of Sapor
"Good manners will open doors that the best education cannot."
Sapor Statistics (http://www.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=Sapor)

We can supply an advanced targeting computer to bring the accuracy to within 40 metres of the target.

We already produce ones that can give 10x10m accuracy for the Supergun and have produced one for other weapons. We can provide them for you. As you are a trusted ally you can have 5 for free. This takes your target and provides an angle and power specification.

We can also provide Torpedo Shells to your specification, should you miss a naval target. (As explained in previous post).

I'd like to add that these shells will be incredibly vulnerable to the laser systems popping up in common use today. Systems such as THAAD and MIRACL are capable of easily targetting, tracking, and detonating artillery shells, because said shells follow a fixed trajectory. Given the amount of gunpowder/propellant that must be present in a 10-ton shell, we've concluded that most fixed or mobile anti-missile laser batteries have an excellent chance of intercepting these shells.

I believe that Western Asia and The Freethinkers include rudimentary laser-systems aboard many of the vessels that they sell, as well.

Just a little bit of information.

~Terran Foreign Research Monitoring Commission~

We advise that the shell be painted in the best black - one that absorbs light extremly effectivly.

We advise that the shell be painted in the best black - one that absorbs light extremly effectivly.

ooc: - Ummm that would help rather than hinder

Field testing in the last year proved that the combination of the optical tracker and the MIRACL laser can destroy artillery rounds in flight. The heat produced by the system when it hits a target is similar to the degree of heat on the sun's surface. The designers claim they can target specific portions of the incoming weapon, depending on the proximity of the missile.

Source is here (click me I'm a link!) (http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articles.html/function/view/categoryid/103/documentid/349/history/3,2359,947,653,103,349)

ooc: - Ummm that would help rather than hinder


No. The laser works like this: (I believe)

Laser fired up. Hits shell (or rocket). Bounces back. We know the location.
If there is any empty space the laser just keeps on going and there is no reflection. If there is black, the light from the laser is absorbed, and does not return, giving the immpression there is just empty space there.

We will supply you with 150 billion for this project.
That is a huge amount of money. I doubt this project will cost a 20th of that. I also doubt this project is worth a 20th of that.

I don't think they have the capability just to give that much away. And anyway, they are currently at a state of serious civil war, and the president is mentally unstable.

I don't think they have the capability just to give that much away. And anyway, they are currently at a state of serious civil war, and the president is mentally unstable.
Yes... I mean even the 20th of the amount I mentioned is 7.5bn, which is a major part of the British NHS budget! lol.

Yes. Over 1 billion for people who I don't beleive they have any links with is very stange.

No. The laser works like this: (I believe)

Laser fired up. Hits shell (or rocket). Bounces back. We know the location.
If there is any empty space the laser just keeps on going and there is no reflection. If there is black, the light from the laser is absorbed, and does not return, giving the immpression there is just empty space there.

ooc: - Um the laser was not a range finder or a locator, it was a "weapon" ie they already knew the location of the shell (and if you say you'll steath coat an artillery shell then you have more money then.......... :rolleyes: ) anyway the laser causes heat, the article tells how much heat (I'll quote the relevent section). The heat produced by the system when it hits a target is similar to the degree of heat on the sun's surface.

The laser causes the round to explode at a safe distance from what it is guarding (of course it's still in proto-tpe stage, but NS laser defence are further along I assume).

I'd like to add that these shells will be incredibly vulnerable to the laser systems popping up in common use today. Systems such as THAAD and MIRACL are capable of easily targetting, tracking, and detonating artillery shells, because said shells follow a fixed trajectory. Given the amount of gunpowder/propellant that must be present in a 10-ton shell, we've concluded that most fixed or mobile anti-missile laser batteries have an excellent chance of intercepting these shells.

I believe that Western Asia and The Freethinkers include rudimentary laser-systems aboard many of the vessels that they sell, as well.

Just a little bit of information.

~Terran Foreign Research Monitoring Commission~

My suggestion on those would be solid shells. And self-guided artillery shells are not that difficult to produce. One which saught to evade a laser - or to roll when struck - would cause problems for such defensive systems. There are other defensive systems which could be placed on such a shell, rendering lasers ineffective.

The laser system would be completely useless against this sort of weapon for several reasons:

1) The shell of a railgun such as this is often solid metal, and as such would be barely dmaged by a laser beam.

2) An artillery shell moves much faster than a missile, so it would be difficult to target with a staionary laser beam weapon.

The laser system would be completely useless against this sort of weapon for several reasons:

1) The shell of a railgun such as this is often solid metal, and as such would be barely dmaged by a laser beam.

Depends on payload. There was talk of bursting shells, which require explosives of some sort. Though there are explosives which do not involve heat, which a laser would be useless on.


2) An artillery shell moves much faster than a missile, so it would be difficult to target with a staionary laser beam weapon.

Hate to tell you this, but the USA has managed to shoot down dumb artillery shells with a laser defense weapon.

Anyway. This laser is a prototype. And experiments are going to to investigate how to stop this. If the laser is designed to blow it up, we will coat is with reflective metals and it will just bounce off.

If this weapon is a railgun, then it's rather useless for its intended role. Railguns do not explode, for the simple reason that they fire slugs, not shells. Because of this, they are a kinetic-energy weapon. As a kinetic-energy weapon, they are mostly useful for direct LOS applications; i.e when you can see the target. As they don't explode, they have to be targetted at something directly.

Railgun trajectories are difficult to change because of the inherent speeds involved. An indirect-fire railgun would need extremely accurate targeting data, something that is difficult to compute in a wartime situation, unless the target is sitting still or moving EXTREMELY slowly. Because the slugs do not explode, they have to hit their target directly, and that target will be the only one affected.

Conventional artillery is useful because it has a large area-of-effect; railguns do not. They have to hit a specific target. We'd also question the feasibility of a 10-ton railgun slug. Railguns function off of Lorentz Force, where the solid slug completes a circuit between two rails. When current flows through one rails, through the slug, and then down the other rail, it creates a magnetic field. Because the current is flowing down the rails in seperate directions, the magnetic forces try to oppose each other. Because the rails are mounted, they cannot move, and the slug is pushed down the rails. The problems with this, however, are numerous.

Because of the nature of the energies involved, the rails need to be extremely sturdy. To avoid being pushed apart by such an intense magnetic force, they have to be securely mounted to something that isn't going to move anywhere. Even with a very small slug, the amount of electrical energy required to generate sufficient force is tremendous. To move a slug that weighs 10 tons would require a ridiculous amount of energy. Then, you have to consider the rails themselves. Supporting a 10 ton projectile is no easy task; when you consider that the same projectile will be moving at a rate of several kilometers per second, you enter the realm of friction damage. Though we're not certain, we believe that you would need ridiculously exotic compounds to withstand such a force. Even modern railgun rails need to be replaced after every firing, for various reasons. Finally, unless you can accelerate a railgun slug fast enough, it will fuse itself to the rails because of the amount of energy involved. As electrical current is involved, that also rules out placing any kind of explosive, electronics, or guidance system aboard the slug.

We believe there is research being conducted into self-fragmenting railgun slugs, but we're not sure about the extent of that research, or its effectiveness.

~Terran Foreign Research Monitoring Commision~

Anyway. This laser is a prototype. And experiments are going to to investigate how to stop this. If the laser is designed to blow it up, we will coat is with reflective metals and it will just bounce off.

Unless you're willing to delve into the realm of molecular bonding, we don't think there is a way that you can layer a railgun slug that would be able to withstand the extreme forces involved without shearing itself in half. Though you can change the materials that make up a railgun slug, you cannot construct the slug so that it has a certain metal on the outside; everything will be mixed together.

~Terran Foreign Research Monitoring Commission~

(ooc: I might be wrong about this part; I'd appreciate some clarification. I'm not current on railgun slug construction. :D)

Whoa. A lot of debate.

I'm trying to design an artillery system off the Dora system used in Germany. My insipiration also comes from Harry Turtledove bok, "Worldwar: In the Balance" where missiles had no effect on a 7 ton shell.

My goals are to have a powerful defense based artillery that can destroy naval ships, while being difficult to destroy by missile and bullet based anti-aircraft defenses. Also, I want an artillery system that would be able to completely devasate any invading beach-heads.

I'm not planning on using these artillery in "attack" kind of wars. I just want to use them to protect my shores and my lands from any potential naval and ground based invasion.


Okay, heres to the basics.

I'm now trying to develop a mobility system. Some of the ideas I have:

1. Railroad based transportation.

2. Dual steel monorail system. It would have the artillery mounted on a concrete slab, which would move sideways on dual reinforced steel monorails.

3. Tread based transportation. I was thinking of using 4 treads, like the ones used on the Jawa SandCruisers from Star Wars. Or the ones used to carry the Space Shuttle in Florida.

4. Wheeled based transportation. I was thinking of using huge 20 - 25 foot wheels used on oversized huge construction dumpster trucks (The 50 foot tall ones).


I'm also willing to change the rail gun application, if it is not a good idea to use rail technology. I want a coolant based system to slow down the wear / tear drastically, so I don't have to replace the cannon after 100 firings. I'm looking for replacement after 10,000 firings or more.

The shells are the same diameter. However, they have varying lengths. The 1 ton shells would be short, while the 10 ton shells would be longer. For example, both shells could be 1/2 meters in diameter. But the 1 ton shell would be 1 meter long, while the 10 ton shells would be 3 meters long.

These are not exact figures, but just an example of how my cannon will be able to fire varying shell tonnage. I'm not that good with mass / volume calculations. :(



I'm really trying to develop my own brand of defensive hardware, because I want to have defenses strong enough to deter any invasion.

Nukes are out of the question, because I'm not going to build or buy any. They are useless because if you use nukes, you can't truly expand. You'd have large tracts of radioactive land where you can't build crap or live on it.



I appreciate any help or feedback on this.

OOC:
Railgun is flawed because the slug makes contact with barrel, i hope i don't have to explain why that is a bad thing.
Often railgun is mistaken for coilgun, which is another type of magnetic accelerator weapon.
Coilgun has series of coils on the barrel(which will accelerate the slug), slug makes no contact with barrel. Coilgun basically works mighty fine, only problem is the power supply. Stationary guns would be possible with today's technology, however that colossus artillery is so big it would require enormous amounts of power.

How much power are we talking about for a coil based firing system?

I'm not sure what Dora's cannon diameter is. Was it 1 meter wide? 2 meters wide?

I would suggest a COIL assist system, which is conventionally fired by uses the COIL system to allow a faster muzzel velocity.

Okay, COIL system it is then, unless there are any alternatives?

Please post more feedback. After I finish this Colossus project, I plan on RP'ing development of Sharian Anti-aircraft defenses, mainly to protect the Colossus from aerial bombardment.

BUMP!

More help and feedback would be greatly appreciated!

The Chinese class SG has proved effective. It does not require any complex hydralics (I don't need to make fancy diagrams with my jumpy mouse).

This can fire about 300 km at present, and this is proabaly all you need. It can be transported on tracks, it isn't too heavy, and you know all about the incredible accuracy of the "Linfield" targetting software. We have opened the LRCRP (Long Range Cannon Reaserch Program) and HARP (High Altitude Reasearch Program) and have given them an undisclosed amount of funding.

The C Class SG (diagram):
http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/c/chinagun.jpg

The Torpshell (Torpedo Shell)

http://www.ajht.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jman/assets/images/autogen/a_torp_edit.gif

A 3cm thick disk separates the torpedo from the blast.

Okay guys.


Would a hybrid of coventional fire and COIL enhancement work out? This is to cut down on required electrical power required to operate the artillery. Would including miniature power plants be out of the question?



I'm thinking a 3 axis / 6 wheeled chassis would work pretty well. Using 20 foot giant dumpster wheels would be feasible, since giant dumpsters can carry heavy tonnage with just 4 wheels. With 6, it could theoretically carry even more tonnage. This would provide the artillery with more mobility and speed than a tread system, and more flexibility than railroads.

We can outfit double wheels if required, upwards to 10 or 12 wheels total for the artillery. It would be able to float across rivers due to the amount of air inside the tires, and the artillery would be able to shrug off ditches and trenches due to the giant size of the tires.


At least that could solve two problems. Transportation and energy requirements. I could put in a small power plant in each Colossus, a miniaturized fossil fuel or hydrogen fuel cell power plant.


What do you guys think? Workable ideas?

A big gun to shoot boats Eh? If such is the case then I think you may be overdoing it with 10 tonne shells. I think that Jonothana may be on to somthing with the torpedo thing, a more standard anti boat shot would be a big improvement on shooting at boats. I don't really see any problem with the dumpsters, though it will be rough going moving them if you get shot. I doubt they would handle moving round craters too well. Though if you intend to use gun for a sole defenceive role, you could look into a tunnel system for transportation.

Well, my Colossus will be able to fire shells of various tonnage. 1/2 ton to 10 ton shells.

Some battleships and carriers built or sold by NS nations have excessive armor, and 10 ton shells should be sufficient to penetrate the giga-armor that some naval vessels have, like the Doujin class Super Battleship.


Here's some good pictures of my intended 6 wheel chassis for my Colossus. Keep in mind the actual wheels of the Colossus may be larger than the ones in these pictures.

View 1:

http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/img/user/33/32/3313332/115.jpg

View 2:

http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/img/user/33/32/3313332/116.jpg

Notice how tiny the person is, standing on the 3rd wheel to your right. These wheels are probably 15 feet diameter, while my Colossus wheels will be somewhere along the 20 foot diameter.


Another view of a Dumpster Truck, but a 4 wheeled one.

http://www.cholo.de/ekeko/Chile/giant_truck.jpg



Hope this clarifies my "Mobile Platform" solution for the Colossus.

Well, my Colossus will be able to fire shells of various tonnage. 1/2 ton to 10 ton shells.

Some battleships and carriers built or sold by NS nations have excessive armor, and 10 ton shells should be sufficient to penetrate the giga-armor that some naval vessels have, like the Doujin class Super Battleship.


Here's some good pictures of my intended 6 wheel chassis for my Colossus. Keep in mind the actual wheels of the Colossus may be larger than the ones in these pictures.

View 1:

http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/img/user/33/32/3313332/115.jpg

View 2:

http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/img/user/33/32/3313332/116.jpg

Notice how tiny the person is, standing on the 3rd wheel to your right. These wheels are probably 15 feet diameter, while my Colossus wheels will be somewhere along the 20 foot diameter.


Another view of a Dumpster Truck, but a 4 wheeled one.

http://www.cholo.de/ekeko/Chile/giant_truck.jpg



Hope this clarifies my "Mobile Platform" solution for the Colossus.


A bit small. This is a railroad gun.

If you are using those wheels I suggest you fill them with Helium. That would decrease its weight and increase its floating ability. However, I don't think it will be able to float anyway. I mean, do cars float?

Car tires aren't large enough. If the car's tires were double their size, then it *might* be possible.

Monster Trucks (The ones that smash cars for sport) can theoretically float, because of their chassis mounted on 10 foot tires.

My Colossus will be able to ford small rivers and streams with no trouble. 20 foot deep rivers can be crossed with minimal trouble. 25 - 30 foot deep rivers might be a challenge.

I will look into using helium for tire inflation.

I'm not sure what Dora's cannon diameter is. Was it 1 meter wide? 2 meters wide?

It wasn't that big, it was 80cm. Not too far from 1 meter however.

Some battleships and carriers built or sold by NS nations have excessive armor, and 10 ton shells should be sufficient to penetrate the giga-armor that some naval vessels have, like the Doujin class Super Battleship.


Armor piercing guided rocket assisted shell is the answer. It's shot into orbit then the rocket engine and guidance system activates. Shell then flies to it's target from orbit at incerible speeds. It however needs quite strong jacketing, because the heating when it falls.

This would allow very intresting cluster design, which would be quite effective againts gigantic battleships. When shell approaches the ship from the orbit, it would scatter uranium penetrating rods around the target. They would be devastating as they are very hot and move so fast.

If you want it to float you could always try Viktor Schauberger's repulsin system. Kind of like magnetic levitation engine, forgotten technology from 20ies. I don't know however would that work(or how it works ;)), but the first prototype worked so far. It's very odd that the technology is almost totally forgotten, but i'm not gonna make any conspiracy theories, as i'm not in that mood.

Edit:Repulsin was typoed.

Whoa. A working prototype of floating levitation? I'll have to look into that.

Yes that is very interesting. The C class SG is being tested on giga - armour. We have decided a shel, exploding above the shell would be good. We are also investigating workable clusters, to penatrate the armour. However the SG isn't designed for heavy loads, however at HARP they are close to starting to develop a prototype HeLoHASG, the Ultra Heavy Loads High Altitude Super Gun for firing a manned shell into space. This may be what you are looking for.

We are proud to announce the completion of the Colossus Ultra Artillery project.

It is mounted on a 6 wheeled chassis for mobility.

It has a hydrogen fuel cell miniature power plant to provide all its power requirements.

It will use a hybrid of COIL and rail-gun theory as its shell launching mechanism.*

It will use several shell sizes, the heavier shells have more length than the smaller ones to give versatility in firepower.

It will be able to use several different shell types. Hollow shells for gas based attacks, shrapnel shells to wreck troops and support personnel, napalm shells to level bunkers / forests / cover where enemies may be hiding, solid metal shells to combat light naval units and land based heavy units such as tanks, and finally, explosive shells to combat the heavier naval vessels like battleships and aircraft carriers.

It will have robotic loading mechanisms to speed up shell loading and unloading, increase precision, increase safety, improve efficiency of loading systems, and eliminate the human element during combat (emotions, pain, fear, etc. while under fire impair the unit's combat effectiveness).

There will be human crews to maintain the artillery, double check its functions, activate firing solutions, etc.



The Colossus Ultra Artillery will also be able to be upgraded in the future. It will be able to outfit new technologies as they become available.

Sharina has announced the further development of Viktor Schauberger's repulsion system to aid the artillery's movement. It can also open up research into anti-gravity technologies to increase the effectiveness of the Colossus in the future.

Bump!

Hmm. Very good. This would sell for 1 billion maybe? At least half that. Anyway, I certainly wouldn't want to launch a naval attack on you.

*= Further clarification on Colossus firing system.

Here's how the rail gun half of the Colossus works.....

Simply use an x-ray to give the shell a negative charge, and run the barrel as a super-electromagnet focused with a negative charge inside the barrel. The shell should be slightly smaller then the barrel diameter. The electromagnetic repulsion created will then prevent the shell from impacting the sides, preventing wear. Actual projection can be accomplished by a discarding sabot-like base, made of a low-abrasion plastic designed to balloon off at the end of the barrel; the plastic is designed not to scratch the barrel, the shell never touches the barrel, and the increased speed caused by the sudden lack of weight is bonus.


The COIL system does the rest.

Bump!

IC: If this gun works, we may buy one for testing, but we'll see how the funding situation in our nation is when the gun is ready.

Ooc: Check TG.

Th great thing about CM is that they actually think realistically about their money.

The Vastivan Scientific Research Agency (VSRA) is curiously interested in this project, and would be interested in aiding development in return for a set of plans of completed work.

We offer some technological assistance, detailed in TG

Abu ben Venkmann, VSRA

Ab-shalom and greetings;

Vastiva awaits it's detailed plan sets. Many thanks would be given for one in hardcopy and one on CD.

Abu ben Venkmann, VSRA

Armor piercing guided rocket assisted shell is the answer. It's shot into orbit then the rocket engine and guidance system activates. Shell then flies to it's target from orbit at incerible speeds. It however needs quite strong jacketing, because the heating when it falls.

The problem with this is that the rocket and the guidance systems take up a lot of room, and you're basically getting a gun fired missile. It would be much easier and cheaper to simply build a large missile and give it a SCRAMjet engine.

Th great thing about CM is that they actually think realistically about their money.


Ever since the old colonial governments in Libya and Mississippian Egypt, then in the later Mississippian Egypt and Mississippian Libya, still under colonial rule. Then the Commonwealth governments of ME and ML, racked up 4+ trillion in debts by buying military equipment left and right, the Federal government in Mississippi has to think better about money, we had to pay off all Commonwealth and Colonial debts. We also had to pay off the debt Angola racked up when he was a colony.

The main problem with "Super guns" is that honestly, how many times can you fire it before enemy aircraft bomb it to hell?

I mean Saddam was working on a Super-gun to point at Israel, but the Israeli Air Force, a fine force, would have made it such that the gun fires five or six times, then it's hit by missiles or bombs.

Well, the great thing is it can be firing at something half way round the earth. So you have enough time to respond. And anyway, we have good AA defences, including SAM's, AA guns and air patrols. We are also developing a housing for the C - Class. Any nations who buy it have to protect it. Also it's good because if they don't use it legally we can easilly destroy it :D

The main problem with "Super guns" is that honestly, how many times can you fire it before enemy aircraft bomb it to hell?

I mean Saddam was working on a Super-gun to point at Israel, but the Israeli Air Force, a fine force, would have made it such that the gun fires five or six times, then it's hit by missiles or bombs.


Well, actually, no. It depends on the defenses the gun has and how it is enplaced. And most do not expect a gun to be firing at them, they expect missiles and such. Guns are passe - and as such, a good sudden impact weapon.

Well thought out defenses can make attack by missiles or bombs nearly impossible. And shells are relatively cheap.

And, if you target the right places, there wouldn't be any retaliatione. For exaple, if you attack planning buildings, then the attack would be grossly uncoordinated. And if you attack major air bases there wouldn't be any at all. And if you attack a country like Iraq, there would be any hope of retaliation. however we only go to war when provoked, so this isn't likleyl

Not true. There are several contingencies in place that prevents the US Command Hierarchy from being vulnerable to any attack, even during peacetime. A strike on your enemy's command centers would not prevent them from counterattacking.

Striking airbases would be a good use of this weapon...though it may need something to improve its accuracy, things such as atmospheric friction and wind currents have a huge effect when you're lobbing a shell halfway across the planet.

My artillery isn't meant to fire ordiance that can orbit the Earth. They are designed to stop invading naval fleets, and to push back beach-heads.

The furthest my artillery can fire is 1000 km, with a 1/2 ton hollow shell filled with some sort of gas.

Shells are far cheaper and easier to build than fancy cruise missiles and rockets. Besides, using shells is essential to overpowering anti-aircraft or anti-missile defenses. It's simple physics, trying to deflect a 10 ton shell is a momentual task for bullet, missile, and rocket based defenses.



Is 1000 km too far? Should I cut it to 600 km or something?

My artillery isn't meant to fire ordiance that can orbit the Earth. They are designed to stop invading naval fleets, and to push back beach-heads.

The furthest my artillery can fire is 1000 km, with a 1/2 ton hollow shell filled with some sort of gas.

Shells are far cheaper and easier to build than fancy cruise missiles and rockets. Besides, using shells is essential to overpowering anti-aircraft or anti-missile defenses. It's simple physics, trying to deflect a 10 ton shell is a momentual task for bullet, missile, and rocket based defenses.



Is 1000 km too far? Should I cut it to 600 km or something?


I would think you could throw a quarter-ton osmium-tungsten bar from a rocket-assisted SABOT round 800 km with reasonable accuracy, making one hell of a kinetic-kill weapon.

If you changed the load, you change the aerodynamics and the accuracy, so most shells would fall in the 500km range.

These are my assumptions, which I leave to the engineers to shred.

To the Esteemed nation of Sharina, a beacon of.. democracy.. in this humble world:

You have most likely not heard of our peoples, but we have heard of you. Forever Cold would like to extend to you the following offer:

Forever Cold will deliver schematics for a fission powered magnetic delivery device, capable of launching projectiles of up to 2 tons at near-light speed, or any speed you so desire below that.

In exchange, we would like you to allow several Archons of the Forever Coldite Church of the True God to be allowed access to... tour.. your fine freedom-loving country..?

We look forward to your response.

To the Esteemed nation of Sharina, a beacon of.. democracy.. in this humble world:

You have most likely not heard of our peoples, but we have heard of you. Forever Cold would like to extend to you the following offer:

Forever Cold will deliver schematics for a fission powered magnetic delivery device, capable of launching projectiles of up to 2 tons at near-light speed, or any speed you so desire below that.

In exchange, we would like you to allow several Archons of the Forever Coldite Church of the True God to be allowed access to... tour.. your fine freedom-loving country..?

We look forward to your response.

OOC And what technology level are you again?
You do realize a "near light speed" projectile of one ton mass orbiting the earth within atmosphere would do heinous damage to the entire ecosystem by tearing away the atmosphere and causing global weather effects which can only be found in CGI nightmares?

OOC And what technology level are you again?
You do realize a "near light speed" projectile of one ton mass orbiting the earth within atmosphere would do heinous damage to the entire ecosystem by tearing away the atmosphere and causing global weather effects which can only be found in CGI nightmares?


OOC: Im using diplomacy speak. no one has the fission power output necessary to use our technology, but far in the future.. weeheehee.. *rubs hands evilly considering the Iron Citadels subterranean location* FYI, we are an insular nation, and meddle in the affairs of other nations secretly.

Ooc: You on yahoo right now?



bump

The Nation of Gawdly is willing to provide you with extensive land for you to conduct any testing necessary. Our planet is large, yet very undeveloped. All we would ask in return would be a large discount on future purchases of this weapon. We thank you for considering our proposal.

Darius Steele
Chairman - Heros for Hire
President of Gawdly

We are proud to announce the completion of the Colossus Ultra Artillery project.

It is mounted on a 6 wheeled chassis for mobility.

It has a hydrogen fuel cell miniature power plant to provide all its power requirements.

It will use a hybrid of COIL and rail-gun theory as its shell launching mechanism.*

It will use several shell sizes, the heavier shells have more length than the smaller ones to give versatility in firepower.

It will be able to use several different shell types. Hollow shells for gas based attacks, shrapnel shells to wreck troops and support personnel, napalm shells to level bunkers / forests / cover where enemies may be hiding, solid metal shells to combat light naval units and land based heavy units such as tanks, and finally, explosive shells to combat the heavier naval vessels like battleships and aircraft carriers.

It will have robotic loading mechanisms to speed up shell loading and unloading, increase precision, increase safety, improve efficiency of loading systems, and eliminate the human element during combat (emotions, pain, fear, etc. while under fire impair the unit's combat effectiveness).

There will be human crews to maintain the artillery, double check its functions, activate firing solutions, etc.



The Colossus Ultra Artillery will also be able to be upgraded in the future. It will be able to outfit new technologies as they become available.

Sharina has announced the further development of Viktor Schauberger's repulsion system to aid the artillery's movement. It can also open up research into anti-gravity technologies to increase the effectiveness of the Colossus in the future.

I would suggest you go and read the polseen wars books by John Ringo to get a slightly better idea of how massive a mobile large calibre gun will end up being. The Shiva gun presented in that series uses a mere 16" gun and is far far larger.

Wheels will defiantly not do the job for the sort of structure required. To support your envisioned system think of the giant bucket digger things, not the comparitively small dumpers. You really need tracks, possibly a series of independently powered units. Tracks will lower your ground preasure and make your platfrom more stable.

More details on the actual weights and sizes of the gun would help others make better suggestions.At the moment the closest extrapolation i can make for the gun is that it weights something close to 1000tons! (based on the fact that the US 16"/50cal of ww2 threw a 1.2ton shell and massed a whopping 120tons).

Maybe you could improve your spelling and grammar.

Maybe you could improve your spelling and grammar.


Addressed to me?

He did ask for thoughts and criticism and I supplied it. A mere lack of proof reading is no reason to reject it.

Crookfur, I'm considering adding tracks to my artillery system. Wheels for quick movement from Point A to Point B, then use tracks for combat deployment and firing the shells.

Wheels won't actually make it any quicker they will merely make it more suceptable to sinking into soft ground and riun its abilitity to handle slops etc.

Currently the largest wheeled vehicle has a capacity of 360 tons which is proabably just enough to mount a 16" gun and some of the supporting structure, unfortuantly not enough for vital thinks like the reloading and and roation mechanism.


Even if you coudl somehow get wheels to be remotely useful your best bet would be to completely dismantle the entire vehcile and then transport it by truck or rail between battlefeilds.

anyway this page on speculation on the SP dora might be useful:
http://members.tripod.com/~fingolfen/superheavy/p1500.html

Sharina, as one of your allies, could I have production rights? Of course, I would not sell them to other nations.

Also, is the gun welded to the platform or would it be possible to remove and use for coastal defense?

Wheels won't actually make it any quicker they will merely make it more suceptable to sinking into soft ground and riun its abilitity to handle slops etc.

Currently the largest wheeled vehicle has a capacity of 360 tons which is proabably just enough to mount a 16" gun and some of the supporting structure, unfortuantly not enough for vital thinks like the reloading and and roation mechanism.


Even if you coudl somehow get wheels to be remotely useful your best bet would be to completely dismantle the entire vehcile and then transport it by truck or rail between battlefeilds.

anyway this page on speculation on the SP dora might be useful:
http://members.tripod.com/~fingolfen/superheavy/p1500.html

Now this is the kind of feedback I really want!

A very good read. That article is much appreciated. As a result of this, I will be changing the wheels to tank-like treads / tracks.

For coastal based Colossus pieces, I will use underground railroads to supply the ammo and shells.

For mobile artillery, I will use dumpster trucks to carry several dozen shells each.

I will split up my treads into 3 or 4 "axles" to provide turning ability.

They will also be able to turn and extend sideways to provide further stability (like the "legs" on construction machinery).


Would these be steps in the correct direction?

Also, would anyone be willing to help me work up good stats?

Thanks once again for your help and feedback! :D

What is the bore diameter of this weapon

What is the bore diameter of this weapon

I gotta write up exact stats for the weapon. So far all of it is just R+D and feedback ideas.

Now that I have a better grasp of technology and such, I'll be able to write up good stats, finally providing concrete performance for these Colossus batteries..