NationStates Jolt Archive

Seeing as how everyone else and their grandmothers has nanites, Jangle Jangle Ridge has been working around in the field too. Hopefully, we will be done soon, at which point I will notify all member of the ESUS in a thread, and allow you first purchases, before making them available to others. I will likely have to run checks on most non-ESUS nations trying to buy them, as they have large destructive potential.


The nanites will come in two packages, Planetary and Space-Faring.

Planetary nanites are actually two groups of nanites. For every one hundred "splicer" nanites, who do the real work, there is one "carrier" nanite, which has an small carrying bay. This makes carrier nanites much larger than the other nanites. The "left-over" particles that the splicer nanites don't use or simply find, are pushed into this bay. Then a rip is opened, leading to the JJR base of operations, where another rip opens. This transports the particles into a JJR "pocket universe", or a fold in the Space-Time Continuum. This hides the particles from most forms of detection. These particles can then be removed from the "pocket universe" if a situation needs it. The carrier nanites, being so big, can transport entire molecules if neccesary. This is only done if an exquisite molecule is created or found. The groups of 101 nanites are wrapped in a tiny, material rich, waterproofed "bubble". This allows the nanites a jumpstart with materials, and the ability to be misted from aerosol, etc. These nanites are a white color, which has led to the name "Burning Mist". A wave of these nanites literally looks like a mist of water particles, until it washes over you and you find yourself being dissected alive, and nanites swarm up your nasal canal, into your brain. These nanites begin by reproducing, creating more nanites, before they actually colonize the planet. Pre-made buildings are made to accomidate the nanites and their owners. Nanite factories are made, weapons factories are made, and power facilities are hijacked. In some versions of these nanites, the nanites swarm the brain of a specified amount of targets, and attempt to force the brain into submission. If this is impossible, then an induced coma will be forced, so that the subject can be assimilated by other means.

I'm also considering a "Hive Mind" for groups of nanites, but also have it so they'll still work without it. And, possibly, have it so that it would have splicers of it's own, so that it could reproduce nanites by itself, and then use those nanites to construct more nanites and get materials for other nanites. Sound good, or just stupid? I was thinking I could put one of these Hive Minds on a planet, with set instructions, to make nanites and colonize the planet, build huge nanite factories on a planet, and make hidden armies.

**Note that the basic product of the Planetary nanites, on release, are simply the atom-shredding/atom-rearranging nanites, without the carriers, waterproof "bubble", programming to create buildings, or programming to force minds into submission. And I'm not going to be selling the Hiveminds for nanites at release.


Now all I need help with is the price ranges. And the Space-Faring nanites I mentioned are still unfinished, and thus, under wraps even OOCly.

If you use this info ICly without my explicit permission, or if anyone jacks any of these ideas... *makes throat-cutting gesture, with sound effects*

And if you call it a godmod, and have a good reason, I'll listen. Because these ae my first nanites, so I'm new at this.

Bump bump bump, bumpbumpbump, bump.

[OOC]: Considering the astronomical difficulty in the production of nanites by anything other than different nanites, the cost should be probably in the billions AT LEAST for the space ones (For a small swarm of them). The planetary ones will cost even more, since they not only need propulsion to move around, they also have to have propulsion strong enough to let them move around with gravity pressing down on them

Actually, I have entire nano-factories. Completely basic nanobots, working in a production line to make advanced nanites. And it allows for lots of factories, since they're tiny.

And I'm not stupid. I've taken gravity into consideration.

I'm not sure I understand the Carrier Nanites.

1. They gather all the waste and left over resources from the process of building or changing stuff done by other nanites, correct?

2. And the Pocket Universe is filled with such waste and left over resources? Then your factories, nanites, or devices tap into this Pocket Universe to use the "waste" resources (and change them back into useful resource for consumption) correct?

I'd like more description / clarification on these.

Other than this, everything looks good.

You don't need to tag it OOC, since the entire thread is OOC, but yes. The extra particles collected, molecules made that could be useful for later use, etc. I planned out a scenario where the nanites were used to filter out chlorine from a resivoir water, store it in this "Pocket Universe" and then use multiple "Carrier" nanites to shock the water with chlorine (pour lots of chlorine in all at once) right before the water entered a major city, poisoning the water supply. My main problem is, I don't know how I can power an FTL device on that scale, no matter what the range or size of the rip. Any ideas?

I would note, though, that they aren't "waste". It's not that the particles are unwanted, just that they'll be needed at a later date.

The carriers no longer have an FTL device. They just hold a molecule for a moment, transmit a signal to JJR BoO, and the particles are warped to the pocket universe by the BoO

If I could somehow make an FTL device of that size and have it be powered, I would be very happy. No one has an idea here?

Jangle, I'd like you to answer my questions stated a few posts back.

Jangle:

I'm not sure how to acces the old threads from the former boards before we moved to Jolt, but the Generic empire and I RP'd the development of 2 types of nanites there. One type, called cellulites, invaded the host body and consumed the molecular iron in red blood cells and used the iron to reproduce itself. eventually the host organism was left with no iron in his blood and hence the ability to absorb oxygen was gone and the organism literally asphixiated. The nanites themselves, when left without an outside source of molecular iron to "eat" would "eat" themselves and "die." The 2nd group of nanites, called Andromedites, worked in a similar fashion, however they "ate" molecular carbon contained in plastics, rubber and other petroleum based products. They, for example, could be introduced into an aircraft and all the seals, gaskets, etc. would turn to dust (remember that scene from the movie "The Andromeda Strain?" where the airplane crashed because of this?)

A good source for information about nanite technology is the Michael Crichton novel "Prey" It will give you some excellent ideas as well as information about possible manufacturing techniques. In my RP with Generic Empire I came up with a price of 10 Billion USD to build and equip a nanite manufacturing facility and once manufacturing had been ramped up a cost of 200 Million USD per pound of nanites produced. Hopes this helps.
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Edit
After writing the above, I found my original post regarding the Andomedites saved on my computer. I'm going to reproduce it for you here:

AP - For Immediate release:
The Kingdom of Mauiwowee announced today that after unparralelled cooperation between the state run bio-tech firm, Stems and Cells and Things, Inc. (S.C.T., Inc) and several private defense contractors (primarily W.M.D. LLC) a new nanotechology has been perfected. The new nanites, named "Andromedites" have both practical uses and potential use as a weapon. Said project director, Dr. Mykal Kryton, "We are extremely excited about our perfecting the nanite manufacture process, and look forward to developing partnerships with those nations interested in the technology and wholesale, mass manufacturing of the Andromedite."

The Andromedite is modeled after the "Adromeda Strain" of bacterial life forms currently under study in the United State's Centers for Disease Control secret desert laboratory. "We were pleased that our intelligence agency personnel were able to "convince" the director of the C.D.C. lab to allow us acces to their research on the Andromeda Strain bacteria and that they let us "borrow" actual samples and computer models of their reproductive patterns" said Dr. Kryton.

In simple terms, the Andromedite "feeds" on petroleum based plastic and rubber products, causing them to crumble into harmless carbon dust. Much ado was made of this ability of the original Andromeda Strain bacterium when a U.S. Fighter Jet crashed because all of the plane's seals, gaskets and pilot's breathing gear crumbled to dust. "The Andromeda Strain bacterium's ability to affect these items has been completely replicated and controlled in the Andromedite nanoprobe" said Dr. Kryton. The Andromedite is dormant at freezing termperatures and fully active at room temperatures. "It is fully self replicating as long as it has a food source of plastic or rubber to feed on. Unless rendered dormant by freezing though, the Andromedite will "die" should it be without a food source for approximately 2 hours. It essentially eats itself when there is no plastic food source available" reports Dr. Kryton. A colony of Andromedites can, with a sufficient food supply, essentially double in size every 60 seconds.

Dr. Kryton states "we are excited about the possible use of the Andromedite in cleaning up land fills and garbage dumps that have large quanties of discarded tires, platic bags, toys, etc. made of plastic and rubber products. Imagine a mountain of discarded tires being turned to dust in the space of just a few minutes. With the Andromedite, this is possible." On the other hand, the director of W.M.D. LLC, retired General Jack T. Ripper, states "the potential for use as a weapon is enormous. Just remember the jet that the original Andromeda Strain bacterium brought down. With a proper delivery mechanism, the Andromedite could be implanted in a plane and bring it down in the same way. What if a small "bomb" consisting of Andromedites were to detonate in a large building or on an aircraft carrier. How long would those things continue to function as all the plastic and rubber insulation on electrical wiring turned to dust and their seals and gaskets crumbled."

Nations interested in trade with Mauiwowee and the manufacture, licensing or other issues related to the Andromedite nanotechnology are urged to contact His Royal Highness, King 'Lude II through officical channels said a Palace Spokesmen for the king. "Obviously the significance of this discovery and the sensitive nature of the issues involved will require governmental cooperation at the highest levels."

To Sharina: I have already answered the questions. Yes and yes. I would prefer to find some way to power the a rip generator, but the size is so small...

Maybe several nanites working together?

Each nanite contributes something to the whole... like nanite #1 generates power. Nanite #2 generates the rip field. Nanite #3 generates stabilization field. Nanite #4 collects all the waste.

Cooperative working might help.

Jangle:

I'd like to RP an exchange of nanite manufacturing and technology with you. I'm really interested in the "hive mind" idea and its possible adaptation to our "cellulite" nanites which are designed solely as a biological weapon. If I could get the cellulites to "swarm" and "hunt" their prey it would solve the delivery mechnasim issues that Generic Empire and I have been working out for these nanites. One thing you have to keep in mind with nanites is the potential for unexpected/uncontrolled release into the wild where they can effetively become an uncontrollable plague. That is why our nanites are built with "self-destruct" mechanisms built in. Hopefully my earlier posts have given you some ideas as well. If I knew how to access the former posts from the pre-Jolt forums I'd steer you to the thread Generic Empire and I had going as well.

Don't worry, I won't IC this stuff until you've RP'ed it somewhere and made it available.

The multiple nanites would work... I could have it be, say, 90 "Splicers", 10 "Generators" that have Micro-fusion generators, and the "Carrier". I'll run it by Central Facehugerria.

I bet we could work out a plot device for it.

Bump

Maybe several nanites working together?

Each nanite contributes something to the whole... like nanite #1 generates power. Nanite #2 generates the rip field. Nanite #3 generates stabilization field. Nanite #4 collects all the waste.

Cooperative working might help.

This is a decent idea. However it complicates the manufacture process as you now have several different types of nanites which need to be made, not just one or two. Due to the need of impeccably "clean rooms" in order to manufacture nanites, the cost of the overall project is going to skyrocket. You can't just set up one "assembly line" to manufacture multiple different types of nanites. nanites related in function might be manufactured on the same "assembly line" but when you divide them into ones that create power, one that generates a field rip, etc. You've created several different types calling for different manufacturing processes and programming. Just my $0.02 for whatever its worth.

Just build it in a vacuum space.

OOC:
Would Nanites be able to enter into sub-space? Such as the warp....?

OOC: If there was a rip present.

Seeing as how everyone else and their grandmothers has nanites, Jangle Jangle Ridge has been working around in the field too. Hopefully, we will be done soon, at which point I will notify all member of the ESUS in a thread, and allow you first purchases, before making them available to others. I will likely have to run checks on most non-ESUS nations trying to buy them, as they have large destructive potential.

Again, I'm interested in RP'ing nanite technology and development. we're a non-ESUS nation, but feel free to run any checks on us you wish.

The nanites will come in two packages, Planetary and Space-Faring.

Planetary nanites are actually two groups of nanites. For every one hundred "splicer" nanites, who do the real work, there is one "carrier" nanite, which has an small carrying bay. This makes carrier nanites much larger than the other nanites. The "left-over" particles that the splicer nanites don't use or simply find, are pushed into this bay. Then a rip is opened, leading to the JJR base of operations, where another rip opens. This transports the particles into a JJR "pocket universe", or a fold in the Space-Time Continuum. This hides the particles from most forms of detection. These particles can then be removed from the "pocket universe" if a situation needs it. The carrier nanites, being so big, can transport entire molecules if neccesary. This is only done if an exquisite molecule is created or found. The groups of 101 nanites are wrapped in a tiny, material rich, waterproofed "bubble". This allows the nanites a jumpstart with materials, and the ability to be misted from aerosol, etc.

Not being involved in FTL/warp/space-folding travel/technology, we'll leave this to you with no comment

These nanites are a white color, which has led to the name "Burning Mist". A wave of these nanites literally looks like a mist of water particles, until it washes over you and you find yourself being dissected alive, and nanites swarm up your nasal canal, into your brain.

OK, I can accept this as not being a god-mod with some explanation as to how they "eat" - how they "dissect" you. Do they just invade the nucleas of any and all cells and destroy it? If so, you'd just turn to a gelatinous mass. Do they target only specific cells? If so, which ones, how do they attack, what is their effect on the cell. Like my cellulite nanites that target only molecular iron contained within red blood cells which they use in their reproductive cycle and without which, unless dormant due to freezing, they "die."


These nanites begin by reproducing, creating more nanites, before they actually colonize the planet. Pre-made buildings are made to accomidate the nanites and their owners. Nanite factories are made, weapons factories are made, and power facilities are hijacked.

How do they reproduce? They can't just do it out of nothing. They have to "absorb" or "take" some sort of matter and use it to "build" another nanite. What matter do they take? You could, conceivably, build one type of nanite that had the ability to produce several different types of nanites, but the more different types of nanites they can produce the more complex the manufacturing process is, the more complex the programming is and the size of the nanite will grow in propotion to the number of different types of nanites it will be producing during its manufacturing cycle


In some versions of these nanites, the nanites swarm the brain of a specified amount of targets, and attempt to force the brain into submission. If this is impossible, then an induced coma will be forced, so that the subject can be assimilated by other means.

talk about sophisticated programming! To control the mind of a person with nanite technology you'd need to target only very specific areas of the brain and need to have sophisticated AI programming built into the nanites and all the nanites in the "host" brain would, of neccessity, have to work together in a "hive mind" type of fashion and in a cooperative manner to mimic the actions of dendrites, neurons, etc. to manipulate the thinking of the host organism. Putting them in a coma or just killing them will be MUCH easier

I'm also considering a "Hive Mind" for groups of nanites, but also have it so they'll still work without it. And, possibly, have it so that it would have splicers of it's own, so that it could reproduce nanites by itself, and then use those nanites to construct more nanites and get materials for other nanites. Sound good, or just stupid? I was thinking I could put one of these Hive Minds on a planet, with set instructions, to make nanites and colonize the planet, build huge nanite factories on a planet, and make hidden armies.

No, it is not stupid, its actually a pretty decent idea. The problem lies in the manufacturing process of the nanites and the many different types of nanites you'll be required to produce and program. Remember, a nanite is basically a robot that only knows what you tell it/program into it. Even sophisticated AI's have at their heart some sort of "logic" module that merely "fakes" free association and "illogical" actions. Your talking about having a type of nanite that reproduces other, different types of nanites and imparts the programming into those nanites and differentiates them, one from another. This will take extremely sophisticated technology. I won't say it's god-modding at this time though without hearing how you plan to do it, since I think it theoretically possible. I'd just want some details on how you plan to accomplish it. By way of analogy to living organisms, it sounds as if your proposal calls for teaching kidney cells to travel through an organism and gather raw, cellular, materials, and then construct liver, brain, heart, stomach, intestinal, skin, etc. cells and impart to the different cells their different functions.

**Note that the basic product of the Planetary nanites, on release, are simply the atom-shredding/atom-rearranging nanites, without the carriers, waterproof "bubble", programming to create buildings, or programming to force minds into submission. And I'm not going to be selling the Hiveminds for nanites at release.

The "hive mind" idea is actually quite good and reminds me of the "predator-prey" programming theorized in Micheal Crichton's novel "Prey." I like this idea a lot. As to the "atom-shredding/atom-rearranging" nanites, making a nanite that simple "breaks things down" at a molecular level shouldn't be extremely difficult. Its the programming of other nanites to use these raw materials and build "new" nanites that have specific functions/programs that I view as the "stumbling block" in your plan. I won't say it can't be done, but it will have to be sophiscated and will likely require several different types of nanites to accomplish. Thus, driving up costs of initial production


Now all I need help with is the price ranges. And the Space-Faring nanites I mentioned are still unfinished, and thus, under wraps even OOCly.

If you use this info ICly without my explicit permission, or if anyone jacks any of these ideas... *makes throat-cutting gesture, with sound effects*

And if you call it a godmod, and have a good reason, I'll listen. Because these ae my first nanites, so I'm new at this.

As noted earlier, we estimate the cost of the building of a nanite production facility in the $10 billion range, even more depeding on the type and sophistication of the nanites to be produced (and yours, as described will be very sophisticated). I don't think it is a god-mod, but it should be explained in some additional detail before I (and I assume others) would accept it.

BTW: If I'm being ignored in this thread, just let me know and I'll go away.

No, you aren't. You're being extremely helpful. The nanites reproduce by creating the needer material from cells that they take from humans. They use, for lack of better terms, a tiny blade, to slice apart atoms and molecules, and use the same implements to combine particles and atoms into different things. That allows them to create more of each other.

And I'd like to note: This a space-tech. Spaceships, mechs, ubertanks, FTL travel, etc.

No, you aren't. You're being extremely helpful. The nanites reproduce by creating the needer material from cells that they take from humans. They use, for lack of better terms, a tiny blade, to slice apart atoms and molecules, and use the same implements to combine particles and atoms into different things. That allows them to create more of each other.

Jangle:
OK, good, here's my thoughts. You have your "splicer" nanites programmed to recognize the atomic structure of the important elements of the periodic table (such as oxygen, carbon, iron, sodium, etc.) as well as important molecular structures (such as H2O (water {duh}, NACL (salt) FeO2 (iron oxide) etc.) and they break these elements and molecules out of the "host" organism. They are also programmed to reproduce themselves from the atoms and molecules they "break out" of the "host." They can keep spreading and "dissecting" things, but you limit each nanite's ability to reproduce so that they don't consume all the raw materials they create in their reproductive cycle. This shouldn't be too difficult to program into a single nanite.

You then make a few other classes of "creator" nanites that are programmed to take "raw materials" left by the "splicer" nanites and "create/build build "new" nanites (that are not "splicers.") or assemble the raw materials into a useful form That is to say the "creator" nanites use the raw materials left by the "splicers" and build, say for example, your "carrier" nanites or the below described "builder" nanites or create raw concrete, steel, glass, etc. You could have these nanites reproduce themselves as well or just keep making new raw materials and nanites until they run out of (for example) carbon, iron and oxygen, to make steel with. Finally, another class of nanites (say "builder" nanites) assemble the "new" raw materials (such as the the concrete, steel and glass) into buildings, weapons, roads, etc. as needed and programmed into them.

The long and short of it is that you need at least 4 basic types of nanites (with varying levels of sub-specialties and functions programmed into each basic type):
1) "Splicers" that break things down into basic raw components;
2) "Creators" that take the basic components created by "Splicers" and organize them into the useable components you need to complete the plan;
3) "Builders" that take the basic components made by "Creators" and actually build or construct things; and
4)"Carriers" to transport the other nanites to their desitination.

Finally, many of these functions could conceivably be programmed into a single type of nanite (for example, a creator might also be a builder by making raw steel molecules and assembling it into girders) but the more you try to program into a nanite, the larger it will of necessity become. Although, assuming your "splicers" have done their work, there won't be anything alive to object, the only issue will be transportation of nanites from one "wasteland" of raw materials to another. Logically then, you need planning on the part of your manufactures and planners as to exactly what functions you want/can program into each type of nanite to make it useful and keep costs down while at the same time need to plan out exactly what types and how many of each kind of nanite you need for the project at hand.

I'll explain more if you want, but you appear to be intelligent enough to grasp what I'm saying from this.

BTW-thanks for responding to my last post. I was beginning to wonder.

Well, there have been nanites that are made to collect materials and create 2 different nanites, just in one nanite. It wasn't considered a godmod, so I don't know if I could get away with it.

Well, there have been nanites that are made to collect materials and create 2 different nanites, just in one nanite. It wasn't considered a godmod, so I don't know if I could get away with it.

If I understand you correctly, I'd agree that a nanite that creates 2 different types of nanites is not a god-mod as long as you don't get two "wild and crazy" about what the 2 new nanites will do. For example a nanite that builds 2 nanites, one that gathers elemental carbon and one that gathers elemental iron would be pefectly acceptable in my book However, a nanite that creates two nanites, one that is capable of "folding space" to create a "warp bubble" or "hyper-space" holding area and another that utilizes that nanite as a place to store other nanites or raw materials, might be pusing it a little bit. The idea is reasonableness of what a single nanite could do or if a nanite is manufacturing other nanites, what the manufactured nanite's capabilities will be.

Well, it all depends. What tech level are you? This would, in all likelyhood, be a relatively primative nanite set for the ESUS, in truth.

Well, it all depends. What tech level are you? This would, in all likelyhood, be a relatively primative nanite set for the ESUS, in truth.

I'll concede that is a problem with what I've been discussing. I consider myself to be at "conceivable, reasonable, 2025 - plus or minus 10 years - tech levels." I understand you play your nation at a much more evolved tech level. I can see you having advantages in design and manufacture of nanites that I don't have that could drive down manufacturing costs and increase capabilities significantly. However you are still dealing with elementary atoms and molecules that will be bound, to some extent anyway, by the laws of quantum and thermo dynamics In other words, you can fold space all you want and have AI computer models that will in fact mimic human intelligence perfectly, but a water molecule is still made from 2 atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen and they have calculable, finite sizes that can't be changed. No matter what your tech level is, a hydrogen atom still has one one electron that "orbits" a proton at a set distance and both the proton and electron have electrical charges and a measureable size. Nanites must deal in the physical world to change the phyisical characteristics of the world and hence are bound by the physical laws of the world they seek to "invade."

Hmmmm. Well... I could MAKE the nanites in one of the pocket universes, then FTL them into the normal universe. Since pocket universes are tiny, things made in them are to scale in size. So making the nanites in a pocket universe, then moving them out would allow smaller, much more complex nanites....

Hmmmm. Well... I could MAKE the nanites in one of the pocket universes, then FTL them into the normal universe. Since pocket universes are tiny, things made in them are to scale in size. So making the nanites in a pocket universe, then moving them out would allow smaller, much more complex nanites....

Once you move them out, aren't they then subject to the physical laws of the universe you have moved them too? You make them, store them, transport them in a pocket universe "bubble," sure, I buy that, smaller, more complex, easier to transport in large quanities. But once you release them from the pocket universe into "our" universe, don't "our" physical laws take over?

A good source for information about nanite technology is the Michael Crichton novel Prey

I would like to second that. My facility for GECSW is slightly based off that book.

Anyway, you'll have to slove the build-time problem (as stated in Prey) because it would take longer than the estimated age of the universe to create even a single nanobot that would construct others if you constructed it by using an assembly-line process (that is, adding on one molecule at a time). Actually, Crichton wrote that 1,000 parts per second would still take longer than the estimated age of the universe to make one nanobot (I don't want to say nanite, because that reminds me of the nanite repair system (http://web24.s5.okayspace.de/MyAcademy/science-nanites.shtml) from Allegiance (http://www.freeallegiance.org)).

Mauiwowee, don't tell him, let him think about it for a bit. http://www.freeallegiance.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_hush.gif

I would like to second that. My facility for GECSW is slightly based off that book.

Anyway, you'll have to slove the build-time problem (as stated in Prey) because it would take longer than the estimated age of the universe to create even a single nanobot that would construct others if you constructed it by using an assembly-line process (that is, adding on one molecule at a time). Actually, Crichton wrote that 1,000 parts per second would still take longer than the estimated age of the universe to make one nanobot (I don't want to say nanite, because that reminds me of the nanite repair system (http://web24.s5.okayspace.de/MyAcademy/science-nanites.shtml) from Allegiance (http://www.freeallegiance.org)).

Mauiwowee, don't tell him, let him think about it for a bit. http://www.freeallegiance.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_hush.gif


Damn, thanks Solid Water, I knew I was forgetting something important.

How did you overcome the build-time process? Feel free to TG me if you consider this to be a "state secret" or you don't want to reveal it in an open forum. I'll hold off on my idea as to how I've decided to RP my answer to this question. However, Jangle is actually a good RP'er and pretty damn smart, so I bet he'll figure out an idea on this issue on his own.

Meantime, thanks for joining in this thread though. I hope you'll stay for a while.

Build-time is a problem... about the pocket universe, it is given the laws, but it was created in a smaller-scale universe. It would retain it's size, it just couldn't build more of itself in this universe. It would have to travel back to the pocket universe to reproduce. That also helps somewhat with the time base, because a pocket universe created at the proper frequency would fold the STC between out universe and a significantly faster one. Yes, it would take over a universe's worth THERE, but it would have nothing to worry about going out, being a tiny, empty ripple of STC. However, it would still take quite a long time...

Just so I know, should we tell JJR how to build nanites in a time less than the average sun's lifetime (If your lucky)? Yes, I have read Prey.

I was thinking maybe he can think of a diffrent way, because I can't see any other way after reading Prey (shouldn't novel titles be underlined? Or does it not matter?).

If you can figure out how to fold space, you can create wormholes of any size that can be opened from anywhere to the main machine location, and then to somewhere again. I was thinking of using magnetic fields, but Solid Water is not that far future-tech to use it.

I colored the info white in the brackets, in case someone still wants to think about it.

[You use genetically engeneered microbes to produce parts of the future nanite and then go assembly-line from there. I use the same method when creating DNA, I grow pre-determined strips of DNA in cells that are in vats. The material is then pumped to the designated assembly line location, and assembly continues until the entire code is completed.]

Thanks Solid Water and Rinceweed. I've RP'd it another way. The initial "factory" manufacture is in accordance with Prey (I don't think it matter if you underline it, as long as you set it out some way like I usually do with Italics or at least quotation marks; at least in this forum it doesn't matter, maybe in a scientific journal or an english paper or something).

However, the replication of nanites/the "nanite building a nanite" issue is handled by me differently. See if you can guess how (I'll post the answer in a later post). A clue though is found in my description of the nanites and where they came from.

For those new to the thread or trying to understand, here is an explanation of the build time problem addressing the issue of having nanites construct things from raw atoms.

Say I want to build a house atom by atom. If I crushed this house into a pancake it would measure 30x20x5 m, or 3000 cubic meters. The atoms are about a nanometer apart, so there are 10^27 atoms per cubic meter, and 3*10^30 atoms in the entire house. Say each nanoassembler can put one thousand atoms in place per second. The time it takes to build your house will be at least 3*10^27/(# of assemblers) seconds. If you want it done in less than a year, you will need 10^20 assemblers. And you're going to build them one at a time with a macro-sized assembly line? If you can build 300 assemblers per second, you just might get your house built before the Sun goes nova in about 10 billion years.

Without producing things that produce other things, the time it takes to build anything is inversely proportional to the number of master assemblers (macro or nano) you start with. With assemblers that build assemblers, the time is inversely proportional to the logarithm of the number of master assemblers.

note: this was lifted from a discussion on a scientific blog - I don't have the URL right at hand, but I want to make it clear that I am not taking credit for writing this

I read Prey just last week, borrowed it from a friend. Brings up ideas!

I read Prey just last week, borrowed it from a friend. Brings up ideas!

OOC: sorry, I've kinda neglected this thread lately, what ideas did you get JJR? I was sure it would give you some.