NationStates Jolt Archive

I was wondering if having Artificial Intelligences in a modern RP would count as godmoding. What I was thinking of was having one AI issued to each aircraft carrier and crusier in my navy. Anyone who's seen Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda on TV would know pretty much what I mean. The AIs would require large, fairly vulnerable and power hungry computer cores, hence thier being on carriers and cruisers but not destroyers and subs. The ships would still need to be manned, but only by 80% of thier normal crew. The AIs would increase the cost of the vessel greatly, and they would offer no other advantages other than the 20% reduction of crew, yet would also take up large amounts of room for thier computer cores. Would this be godmoding? Mainly, I just thought the concept of giving your ships personalities on Andromeda was cool, and wanted to do the same for my navy.

It could be and it could not be. It depends what you do and how well you write it up. If you can explain it in terms that make sense and are "Not too far off" I'd say if it is current technology + 1-10 years, it's probably okay. Death Stars and planet killing space ships are not okay. Smart tanks that can identify the friendly and enemy tanks based on say a chip present in friendly and allied tanks that isn't present in enemy tanks. That is okay.

I see. Aside from the AIs, my navy isn't too far ahead of RL. Same old Ticonderoga II Class Cruisers and Los Angeles class subs, aside from the AIs, nothing too advanced. I was just concerned that the very idea of them existing in a modern RP would be considered Godmoding. I'm not exactly sure yet how I'll explain the sudden leap in computing, but RP-wise, I won't really use them any differently from a human character. I just love the idea of warships that have spunky, attractive AIs to advise thier captains.

Thank you for replying, your response was most helpful. :)

You've got a good idea, but I wouldn't sell it as an "AI" as such. At least not in terms of pure modern.

What I would do is have it like a "caretaker" AI. No people in that area, or lowering the power to certain areas if they're not needed and so forth.

Or similarly, things like target solutions in submarines are often manual. You could conceivably make an AI to calculate things like vector, speed, best course of attack.

Or similarly, an AI could be used to calculate things like missile intercepts, at what time, what speed, trajectory etc

Basically what CM said: A tool to aid the humans, but never to take their place.

I was never really thinking of the ship's AI taking over a crew position, but to help in manning it, yes, I was thinking of that in certain cases, but only in certain cases. ie, if it usually takes 3 crewmen a shift to moniter a steam turbine where nothing usually happens anyways, if the AI helps in monitering it, the job might only require 1 or 2 crewmen. That's where the 20% crew reduction I was thinking of came from - I imagine it to be bigger than 20% in reality because of situations where the AI has lightened the workload to the point that 1 or 2 people can do the job of 3, but compensated for the fact that there would have to be additional crew to maintain the AIs themselves. If 20% is too high though, I could reduce it. Again, I don't ever intend for the AI to be a decisive or major factor in any RP, ever. I'll treat them like any other character, ie a human navigator or radar operator or advice dispensing first officer.

Making an AI? Why, right here!

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=310747

I think I pulled it off without too much godmodding, considering it's 2050-2075 to me.

ooc: It would probably offer much more advanced power management, as it would automatically be able to determine underused and overused systems and compensate power levels accordingly. You'd likely get much more life out of your power generators with one of these on your ship.

Well, yes, I suppose that various operational systems would increase in efficentcy with an on-board AI, but with the power requirements of that said AI's computer core, I don't imagine the electrical part of that to be better than a conventionally manned ship, if not worse. I'm imagining the AI computer core to be a huge, 2 or 3 deck tall affair, if not taller, with an advanced seawater cooling system and a wide variety of blinking lights on it. ;)

And thanks for the link Kaukolastan, this "Project Prometheus" is sounding quite interesting. I'm reading through it now.

Well, yes, I suppose that various operational systems would increase in efficentcy with an on-board AI, but with the power requirements of that said AI's computer core, I don't imagine the electrical part of that to be better than a conventionally manned ship, if not worse. I'm imagining the AI computer core to be a huge, 2 or 3 deck tall affair, if not taller, with an advanced seawater cooling system and a wide variety of blinking lights on it. ;)

And thanks for the link Kaukolastan, this "Project Prometheus" is sounding quite interesting. I'm reading through it now.

ooc: Ah yes, a very pertinent point. It'd probably be able to save enough power through efficiency to support its own power needs, huh? It'd still make the ship more efficient.

I think a major factor would be how you present it. Like if Its a hologram thats moving a round and talking like a regular person would(like in Andromeda) it would be pushin it for modern tech, but if its like displaying data on a screen, maybe even talking in like a robot-like voice(like in the old movies when computers talk) it modern. Conversations back and forth could be held to a degree, because we have voice recognition software now, but nothing like the computer saying "Hows the wife and kids doin" to a crew member, or any conversations like that.

I think a major factor would be how you present it. Like if Its a hologram thats moving a round and talking like a regular person would(like in Andromeda) it would be pushin it for modern tech, but if its like displaying data on a screen, maybe even talking in like a robot-like voice(like in the old movies when computers talk) it modern. Conversations back and forth could be held to a degree, because we have voice recognition software now, but nothing like the computer saying "Hows the wife and kids doin" to a crew member, or any conversations like that.

I wouldn't have the holographic technology or the android body as seen in Andromeda, but one thing I really want to hang onto is the idea of the ship having personallity, caring for the crew, etc. That's pretty much my primary concern - not gaining a 3% boost in electrical efficiency, or a 2.5% percent boost in coolant economy or a 1.5% boost in television reception or anything like that, but having an AI that can feel and care for its crew, a ship that feels and cares for its crew, even if the AI is confined to computer moniters and can be relatively easily knocked out by enemy fire.

How can it be godmoding if it doesnt actually affect combat effectiveness?

I mean it's RP... hes not ruining things for anyone else and is just making it more fun. Thats what its upposed to be right?

Just make sure you explain that to your enemies before you use it.

up until recently my country was modern or near modern and the country was entirely overseen by an AI, i dont think that AI is godmoding because in itself it can act only as an organising force which speed up the reaction times (and possibly accuracy) of your force, it acts merely as a form of effective co-ordination something that any nation can do now if theyre willing to put aside some (a lot) of money for the implementation, the problem with AI is in order to work eficiently it must be completely omnipresent, and that really adds to the cost of everything you build.

Thank you for the replies, these are pretty much the best answers I could hope for.

I wrote up a little RP segment as a model of how much I expect onboard AIs to affect RPing. It's actually kind of dull though.
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note: like in Andromeda, the AIs will be formally named after thier assigned ships

*Aboard the CNS Miranda, Ticonderoga II Class Crusier, on high seas patrol*

The massive ship roughly bounced through the waves as it was pounded by the high winds and hard rains of tropical storm Alexi. Onboard, the crew was growing increasingly uncomfortable, with the constant heaving of the decks causing a variety of minor injuries and accidents to occur to the crew. On the bridge of the CNS Miranda, the first officer of the vessel watched the bow of the crusier plow through yet another high wave crest, and sighed. "Miranda, how much more of this harsh weather are we going to see?" he asked in the general direction of the ceiling. Instantly, a concerned looking blond woman in a modified Colonial Navy uniform appeared on the computer monitor to the first officer's right. "Well, Colonial Weather Service predicts that Alexi will lose most of its power and dissapate within 8 hours" she said, "but for the next 4 to 6 hours, expect a rougher ride than usual". The first officer thought about that for a moment before writing it down on his notepad. "You know sir, you don't have to write that down," the woman on the monitor, Miranda's onboard AI continued, "you could just ask me whenever you want an estimate of the weather conditions. And since I'm getting constant updates from the Weather Service, I could even provide a countdown for you." "No, no" dismissed the first officer, "I wouldn't want the bother you with minor stuff like weather updates". "It would be no trouble," insisted Miranda, "afterall - " she was interupted by a sudden impact that shook the hull, even more than the storm was shaking it. "Report!" demanded the first officer, as he tossed his pen and notepad aside. "Unknown impact on underside of the hull, between sections 21 and 24" reported Miranda, seemingly gazing off into air to access her information. "Helmsman, did we hit something?" yelled the first officer to the man at the helm. Before the helmsman could reply, the ship was rocked by another impact. "Damn it Miranda, are we under attack? Helmsman, engage in evasive manuvers. And Miranda, go to action stations" ordered the first officer. "Aye sir, action stations" said Miranda, as alarms began blaring around the ship. "I'm not sure if we're under attack sir," she continued, "the impacts are rather small for torpedoes, but...perhaps..." The blue backround behind Miranda's female avatar that showed a semi-transparent view of Miranda's open applications suddenly became much more cluttered. As the ship was rocked by yet another impact and the crew ran to thier action stations, Miranda began again to speak. "Sir, I believe that the impacts we are experiencing are GH-312 mini-torpedos fired by a small submarine in Raven-Echo Pattern. As of the current intel reports, the only nation that utilizes such torpedoes and such tactics in unision are the - Captain on deck!" Miranda interupted herself to snap to attention and salute, as the Captain sprinted through the access hatch and onto the bridge of the ship. Most of the bridge crew came to attention, as the captain waved them all back to thier work. "As you were people, we don't have time for this. Now Miranda, you were breifing me while I was running here, and I think I've come to the same conclusion as you - we're up against Narzillions". "That is correct sir. Narzillions would seem to be the ones attacking us" confirmed the AI. "Narzillions.... but we're at peace, aren't we? Those crazy SOBs are going to start a war after 15 years of peace?" The first officer was shocked by the insanity of the prospect, it didn't make any sense. "Miranda," ordered the captain, replacing the first officer in the command chair, "reconfigure sonar to specifcally search for pings on the freq 130.11 to 131.88. I never really trusted those Narzillons, and that's the frequency thier stupid little mini-torpedoes use for sonar guidence. Give us the vectors as you read them and try to coordinate with the Anti-Submarine Warfare guys, put down depth charges in the standard pattern, but reserve some for the vectors the torpedoes are coming in from". "Aye sir," acknologed the AI, as her eyes shifted with her calculations and her application windows worked behind her. The Captain turned over to his comms officer. "Tell Fleet Command what's going on, we have to warn them about the Narzillions". "But this still dosen't make any sense", objected the first officer from where he was coordinating with the sonar operators. "Why would they attack us after all this time?" The captain looked like he was going to reply, but was interupted when Miranda began speaking. "Incoming torpedo vector 342 mark 458, speed 61 knots, distance 655 meters and closing, all hands brace for impact". A second seemed to pass before the ship was once again shaken by the impact of a mini-torpedo. "Sir, I can't take much more of this" complained the AI. A set of depth charges was launched at where the torpedo appeared to be fired from, but there was nothing to indicate they had hit the enemy submarine. "Incoming torpedo vector 590 mark 218, speed 59 knots, distance 500 meters and closing, all hands brace for impact" Miranda once again warned, saying the sentence in a rapid-fire fashion to ensure that it all was heard in time before the torpedo struck the ship. "Continue firing depth charges through those vectors," the captain ordered his Anti-Submarine Warfare officer, "it's all we can do". "Captain, that last impact caused a hull breach in sections 26 to 29 on the bottom three decks. The ship is taking on water and will sink if we take any more torpedoes" warned Miranda, but nearly as soon as she was done speaking, another torpedo was fired at her. "Incoming torpedo vector 563 mark 948, speed 60 knots, distance 614 meters and closing, all hands brace for impact" she warned before the torpedo hit. "Sir, that was it, we will break up if we take another hit in that section," Miranda said grimly, "and that last one damaged the power relay in section 26, juntion 43. My power is going offline." "Alright then, we're finished." said the captain bitterly. "Comms, activate the code omega protocol, Miranda, get me shipwide". "Shipwide announcement" blared Miranda over all the ships speakers and monitors, before allowing the captain to address his crew. "This is the captain. We have lost this engagement against the newly agressive Narzillions, all hands abandon ship, repeat, all hands abandon ship". As the bridge crew of the CNS Miranda filed out to the lifeboats, the comms officer and the captain remained to ensure that the omega protocols were successfully implemented before the ship sunk. This meant that all activity and sensor logs of the last 4 hours were transmitted back to command, as well as the ship's last known position and a highly compressed file containing any changes the CNS Miranda's AI Personality Core underwent in the time between her last AI Personality back-up was made at command and the present. Hopefully, this would allow for the AI to simply be resurrected back at command without losing any elements of her personality development, however, this was the longest phase of the protocol and wasen't guarenteed to complete before the ship went under. 1 hour after the implimentation of the omega protocol, even if the last phase is incomplete, the AI computer core onboard the CNS Miranda would be fried by an EMP and microwave burst capable of functioning underwater, and then blasted apart by integrated explosive devices to prevent its capture and reverse engineering by enemy scientists. The comms officer had barely begun the omega protocol aboard the Miranda though, when yet another torpedo impacted her hull. As Miranda anticipated, this latest blast was the one that broke the Colonial Cruiser in two, completely destroying the ship.

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Okay, so that was actually kind of dull. But hey, I only meant it as kind of a tech-demo on the concept of modern naval AIs, and an example of the affect they'd have - which is to say, minimal. in this case, a human member of the bridge crew could have easy done everything that Miranda did.

Hey, that was actually pretty good. Not much even an AI can do about a lighting-fast strike on a cruiser.

By the way, Kaukolastan, that RP still open?

Hey, that was actually pretty good. Not much even an AI can do about a lighting-fast strike on a cruiser.

By the way, Kaukolastan, that RP still open?

Sort of. That was Part I. I'm in Part III right now, which is semi-closed. Part IV will be wide open.

If you click the link below this post, and scroll down to the topic "Deicide", you'll find three links. The first is the link I threw up here, the second is Part II, the third is the still being written Part III. Don't be afraid to post comments, but the IC action is still closed on those. Sorry about that, but I can't open it up QUITE yet.