NationStates Jolt Archive


Valefor Air Superiority Fighter Development Cycle Ended!

Sileetris
29-07-2004, 06:36
RCNN (Relic Continental News Network)
Presents a very special event in Relic Military history:
With a tear in his eye, Prof. Derek Mobius, project head of the Valefor development team, raised his glass. "A toast to the end of one of the greatest endeavors of science ever undertaken!"
The end of developments for the fabled Valefor 29a Air Superiority Fighter!

In this special, we will examine the history, the systems, and the applications of the most dedicated Air-to-Air combat vehicle in the history of the world! We will interview the scientists behind it, the pilots that fly it, and key figures from other countries.

So strap yourselves in, and get ready for the ride of the new century!
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In this introduction, we will go over the basics of the fighter itself, followed by comments from experts......

Anatomy of a Valefor 29a Air Superiority Fighter, Relic Edition

Avionics: The Valefor has two variable sweep wings, two forward canards, one small dorsal fin, and two tail rudders. Its engine has full 360 degree thrust vectoring. There are a total of 5 gyroscopes for precision maneuvering and inertial control. The nose is specially shaped to reduce sonic boom volume by 2/3rds. The fuselage is a partial lifting body design, and the intakes are designed to take advantage of the lifting tunnel phenomenon, allowing unheard of static lift in a jet fighter and enabling extremely short takeoff distances and very low stall speeds.

Powerplant: The Valefor is powered by a RelicAeroSpace Gran Fury Imperial Shaftless Afterburning Turbojet, capable of putting out 110,000 pounds of thrust. Because of its shaftless design, the engine is extremely tough. There are three intakes and one output, two of the intakes provide air directly to the engine, the third gathers cool air to mix with the exhaust. The intakes are guarded by a wire grid to prevent debris from entering, and have an emergency panel that lowers if the plane expects to go through serious debris. Aiding the main engines are 3 'tesla turbines', two in the intakes, and one in the output. The 'tesla turbines' are an unconventional electric powered engine that use rows of spinning disks to accelerate air. The two front 'tesla turbines' each can generate up to 10,000 pounds of thrust, while the larger rear turbine can generate up to 20,000. The tesla turbines can be reversed to provide backwards thrust to aid in complex manuevers or shorten landing distance.

Cockpit: The canopy is made of transparant aluminum(ribbed with defrosting veins and an invisible layer of cold plasma) coated with near-frictionless carbon, providing excellent protection and aerodynamics. A plate of heat proof ceramics raises to cover the front of the cockpit during atmospheric reentry. Nearly every surface in the cockpit has been coated with OLEDs that show exterior views, giving the pilot unprecedented visual awareness. The pilot is connected to the plane with a thought interface, allowing them to easily manage all the technical details without removing their hands from the stick. All the controls in the cockpit are on touch screens, meaning even the instrument panel is transparant enough to see through. In the event of an ejection, the entire cockpit detaches, there is a seperate satellite radio, rations, a medical kit, and an RIW-5 assault rifle in emergency storage.

Sensors: The heart of the Valefor's sensors is the amazing HSCDEADGR radar system, the most advanced radar system ever created on NS, to describe it fully here would be a waste of time, but details can be found at http://www.freewebs.com/bluebomber2/aerospacetech.htm, and now with the development of double powered antennas, some space has been cleared up for other computing tasks. Besides that there is a LIDAR system, a millimeter band radar scope, and an infrared camera, all of which can be used to guide missiles or countermeasures. There are several fluid superlens visual sensors around the craft, providing extraordinarily crisp visual data at any range, the images are constantly searched for tiny glitches that show where active camo may be in use. The Valefor has a satellite uplink to various military GPS services, as well as a highly detailed 3d map of the world in storage.

Computer Systems: The Valefor uses cold plasma based computers, giving it tremendous processing power(cold plasma is a superconductor), and immunity to EMP burnout. Besides all the normal functions involved with a combat computer, the valefors computer also maintains an uplink to Dastana escort drones, allowing them to know the state of their ward at all times.

Interior: All the empty space in a Valefor is filled with aerogel for its ballistic and insulating properties. The air inside the aerogel is cold plasma, used in the PFR system, the radar absorption bursts, to store electricity, and to absorb anomalous EM waves and energy weapons. The Valefor uses hydrogen for fuel and stores it in self-sealing tanks that if exploded focus the blast outward to prevent further damage. Two large kinetic energy batteries store huge amounts of electricity and are recharged constantly by the main engines, the electricity from the kinetic batteries is typically used to power the gyroscopes and 'tesla turbines'.

Skin: The skin of the Valefor has many layers, none of which are particularly radar absorptive, although the geometry of the plane gives it a slightly smaller than average cross-section. The outermost layer is near frictionless carbon, allowing for less heat at high speeds, and crisp handeling in general, this layer is extremely slippery(dirt will slide off), giving a small amount of ballistic protection, especially from steep angles(combined with the armored layers beneath it, from certain angles 20mm will be deflected harmlessly). Beneath that is a thin grid of color changing fiberoptics that give the plane a very basic form of active camo, and if absolutely necessary the ability to induce epileptic seizures on onlookers. The next layer is a heat proof ceramic coating, that acts as a layer of heat tiles would, important for when reentering the atmosphere. Below that is the ceramic/titanium/carbon fiber skin of the aircraft, strong enough to stop bullets up to .50 cal. The innermost layer consists of diamond fiberoptics used to lessen damage from anti-aircraft lasers, and ribs of electromagnets to repel the cold plasma used in PFR off the skin.

Landing Gear: The Valefor uses a tricycle landing gear arrangement, and has a carrier harness. The tires on the landing gear are spring tires, requiring no inflation, and remaining good for longer periods of time.

Armament: The Valefor's fixed forward gun is a deadly RA-G5 20mm Gas-Gun with 1700 rds of ammunition, the gun fires at a rate of 900 rds per minute and has a range of around 9 km, the ammo is guided, allowing it to curve in mid-flight. The Valefor has 13 hardpoints, 2 of which are internal. Under a typical (full) load, the Valefor will be armed with twenty-six RA-M178 'Cutthroat' Missiles, three on each hardpoint, two RA-768 "Imp" Missile pods(10 missiles per) in the internal bays, and one RA-PL10 Rechargeable Plasma Cannon on the center fuselage hardpoint. The multirole missiles provide excellent in-general firepower, the Imp missiles offer quick kills at short range, and the plasma cannon allows the Valefor to instantly zap any one target out of the sky. The 'Buckler' countermeasure system will also shoot down enemy planes if they get within range, providing a small bubble of protection at all times.

Countermeasures: The Valefor has more countermeasures and more types of countermeasures than any other plane in existence. It has your basic chaff and flares, and a cooled exhaust area. There is an infrared laser that confuses most heat seeking missiles. Cold plasma can be released in bursts that cause the plane to disappear off radar entirely for a short time. A type of reactive armor has been developed that flings debris into the path of incoming missiles. There are several 'Moondust'anti-ballistic sprayers that can stop bullets from impacting at full force. The most unique and powerful countermeasure system on the Valefor is the 'Buckler' active missile interceptors, basically a small version of a CIWS that fires guided ammo at missiles. Combined with the plane's inherent toughness, these systems give the Valefor an extreme edge in combat durability.

Cold Plasma Systems: There are 4 main systems involving Cold Plasma, which is stored in pressurized tanks and in the aerogel filling the plane. The first system PFR, is a speed enhancing bubble of slightly charged plasma projected from the front of the plane. PFR plasma slows down incoming air, and is repelled off the surface of the plane by magnetic fields. Cold plasma radar absorption bursts are pulses of uncharged plasma that absorb all the radar signature of the plane for a short time. The internal spaces filled with cold plasma are use to store electricity. The plasma lance cannon typically mounted on the center fuselage hardpoint uses cold plasma and electricity as ammo.

Special Add-Ons: The Valefor is the only fighter in NS that has the ability to leave the planet, doable thanks to an addon disposable rocket booster system. This combined with the plane's carrier landing compatability means it can be deployed almost anywhere in mere hours.
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The following are statistics for the Valefor export version:

Crew: 1 pilot

Max Speed: Mach 2.9

Max Speed with PFR System: Mach 3.6

Powerplant: 1 RelicAeroSpace Magnum Charger Afterburning Turbojet (maximum 75,000 lbs. thrust(safely))

Range: 2175 miles-3500 km, w/ PFR(for the full trip) 3927 miles-6319 km

Armament:
1 20mm Chaingun with 1000rds Ammo
11 External Hardpoints
2 Internal Hardpoints

Counter Measures:
Chaff/Flare Dispensers
Cold Plasma Radar Absorption Bursts
Streamlined reactive armor plates for missile interception.

Special Features:
Inner surfaces of cockpit show view outside, giving 360 degree vision and HUD
Thought interface allows seamless connection between the pilot and the plane, increasing efficiency and reaction times.
3d Radar Imaging, with Cascading, Self-Cancelling Doppler Effect, Gridded Radar anti-stealth system
Image enhancement systems can accurately detect most active camo
EMP/NBC protection
Layer of cold plasma gives some protection against energy weapons
Carrier capable
Variable geometry wings
Full pivot thrust vectoring
Optional PFR system

(order via telegram)
$42 million without PFR

$45 million with PFR
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These are the changes made in the Relic Edition, only available to extremely close allies of Sileetris:

Max Speed: Mach 4.4

Max Speed with PFR System: Mach 6.6

PowerPlant: 1 RelicAeroSpace Gran Fury Imperial Shaftless Afterburning Turbojet (110,000 lbs of thrust)

Armament Upgrade: RA-G5 20mm Gas-Gun Aerospace Cannon, with guided ammo

Counter Measure Upgrade:
6 CRDA AMMI "Buckler" units, one on each side of the plane.
5 'Moondust' anti-ballistic sprayers, on every side but the front

Special Features:
Exclusive HSCDEADGR radar system.
Layer of laser diffusing diamond fiber optics below skin.
Inner spaces filled with aerogel for superior heat absorption and anti-ballistic performance.
Reversible thrust tesla turbine engine allows basic STOL performance and new dogfighting maneuvers.
Gyroscope system fine-tunes and enhances maneuverability.

NOT FOR SALE / $73 million
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Also we will be covering the debut of the Dastana defense drone, an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle specifically designed to protect human crewed vessels during combat.

RA-UAEV8 'Dastana'
Unmanned Aerial Escort Vehicle

Created to compliment the dogfighting powers of the Valefor 29a fighter, the Dastana represents the ultimate wingman. Armed with several 'Buckler' antimissile units, and a small payload of 'Imp' dogfighting missiles, the Dastana is designed solely to assist and protect a combat aircraft. Fast and manueverable, it can keep pace in a dogfight to put itself exactly where it should be. Fearless and bold, it will gladly take a missile for its host airplane, should the need arise. The Dastana will sweep an area for SAMs and AA guns, and at the same time map an area in detail, updating the maps of the host plane and military instantly via satellite. The Dastana can also perform missile interception roles for Naval vessels, tearing through swarms of incoming missiles with selfless courage.
Crew: 0
Max Speed: Mach 2.6
Max Speed with PFR: Mach 3.7
Powerplant: 1 RelicAerospace Dart Swinger Shaftless Afterburning Turbojet (56,000 lbs of Thrust)
Range: 2100 miles-3379 km, w/PFR(for the full trip) 3263 miles-5251 km
Armament:
8 'Buckler' Antimissile Systems
Internal store for 10 'Imp' Dogfighting Missiles
Counter Measures:
8'Buckler' Antimissile Systems
Special Features:
EMP proof
AI driven to protect assigned plane, even if sacrificing itself is necessary.
Carrier Capable
Full Pivot Thrust Vectoring
Satellite Uplink to report reconnaisance data

($13.5 Million, order via telegram)

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(ooc: for the few people that bought Valefors, the new upgrades are the sonic boom reducing nose, the fiberoptic layer in the skin, the improved antenna design, and the uplink to Dastana defense drones. For everyone else: feel free to respond with questions, comments, and all that.)
_Taiwan
29-07-2004, 06:41
Hmm...good enough to beat New Empire's F-109?
Sileetris
29-07-2004, 06:45
It has the only radar system capable of defeating the Pallas Athena system, it has a higher max speed and weapons load, and it has a revolutionary countermeasure suite, and thats just the start of it......

The Valefor is designed to take on anything that flies.
Sileetris
29-07-2004, 08:36
Hope to god that isn't a Valefor going BUMP in the night over your country......

By the way, to give you all a hint about how long these planes have been in production(and undergoing constant upgrades), they came out the same month as the original Raysian RF-11.......
Sileetris
29-07-2004, 17:27
Bump
Markov
29-07-2004, 17:51
OOC: tagged. are you anti- new empire?
Sileetris
29-07-2004, 18:24
OOC: No, we're pretty neutral to eachother, but the plane still kicks ass. Why, are you?
Anarresa
29-07-2004, 18:45
Its finally done! I'll be ordering soon.
Anarresa
29-07-2004, 20:55
bump for Sileetris
Markov
29-07-2004, 22:41
OOC: No, we're pretty neutral to eachother, but the plane still kicks ass. Why, are you?

Hehe, i've had two major wars with him. Unofficially: I don't like him. But...since i've gotten my butt kicked in every conflict i've ever been in with him, i've decided to be his ally. Hes always one step ahead of me in terms of technology which...needless to say...pisses me off. I'd personaly love to see Athena's ass get whooped. You guys should have an air show or something....that would be cool.

My MF-98 Super Phoenix air superiority fighter will be avalible for purchase in just a few weeks. If possible..i'd love to substitute my stealth system with your's.
Truitt
29-07-2004, 22:48
Well, it looks like a good rival to the TF-55 I made (I havn't really given it an intorduction yet). Very interesting.
New Empire
29-07-2004, 23:09
OOC: Hah, go ahead and by the Sileetris radar, Markov.

"It has the only radar system capable of defeating the Pallas Athena system..."

WRONG! There is another way. A cheaper way.
_Taiwan finally figured out the easy way to defeat Athena without using an incredibly expensive radar. NPI...

Anyway, I'm still interested with this for AWACS use, not on fighters because of the TARGETS II Man-Machine Interface and Pallas Athena computers (And the fact that NPI covers it's Anti Active stealth use.), and you never confirmed my order! BAH!

Oh, and Taiwan, if you didn't notice, of course the Vale could take on the F-109. Fortunately, I no longer use it on the front lines.

[/rant]
Markov
29-07-2004, 23:20
OOC:

This is the latest prototype version of the MF-98: tell me what you think

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v464/esankey/finalintre.jpg
Markov
29-07-2004, 23:22
hmmm....my pic isn't working...
Axis Nova
29-07-2004, 23:23
Minor objection to that system that sprays tiny diamonds around...

Sure, it's possible, but I imagine allied aircraft would be rather miffed if they sucked some of that gunk into their engines.

And btw, don't advertise that your plane can take on anything that flies. It certainly can't take on one of my airships :p

Axis Nova
New Empire
29-07-2004, 23:26
You do realize how large the thing would have to be to have naval grade armor, right? And even then, if it used a weapon like a ASM it could kill it.

Or, a kinetic kill scramjet missile. Or some kind of cruise missile.
Sileetris
29-07-2004, 23:53
New Empire: Whats NPI? Link? Why haven't you upgraded your system to counter it yet? And what order are you talking about??! GRAH!

Axis Nova: Your airships don't fly, they fall with style! And friendly aircraft should know better than to fly too close to a Valefor, also given the fact that the 'Moondust' system only activates when its being shot at.....
Five Civilized Nations
29-07-2004, 23:57
Hm... Maybe I should finish the design of my S/F-63 Tian Long Air/Space Superiority Fighter...
New Empire
30-07-2004, 00:18
NPI (No Probability of Intercept) is Athena in reverse. It uses a powerful computer that cycles LPI frequencies so fast that an Athena computer of the same power cannot keep up with it.

Basically, it works on the principle that an NPI system using the same power (and sometimes a bit less) as an active stealth system will always win because the NPI needs to do simpler work, and can therefore use free processing power to cycle and variate frequencies.

The simple answer is that I can counter it with a faster computer, but soon enough an NPI computer will use the same speed and beat Athena's ass all over.

Remember, the order I made at the airshow? That I bugged you about?

Well, I'm ordering it now, darnit. If it's availible to a fellow technocracy member.

I saw one of the tech's you're working on is a system that presents information from computers into the human mind. We'll trade our TARGETS system for your H.. radar (Stupid long acronym).
_Taiwan
30-07-2004, 00:22
ahh...I've threatened your sense of superiority [/taunt] :)
Sileetris
30-07-2004, 00:32
If thats it its nothing for me to feel ashamed of, because HSCDEADGR(its not a stupid acronym! the full thing takes several minutes to pronounce :D) already does that anyway. Plus its active mode is undetectable to passive radar, kinda like nightvision vs. normal sight.

Actually, I don't remember the order :( seeing as that was several months and a forum change ago....

In any case, you'll have to offer something other than the TARGETS system, because we've already completed our thought based research(and implemented it as you can see).
New Empire
30-07-2004, 00:35
/me slaps self

DOH!

Uhmm... What we looking at with cost then?
Axis Nova
30-07-2004, 01:10
New Empire: Whats NPI? Link? Why haven't you upgraded your system to counter it yet? And what order are you talking about??! GRAH!

Axis Nova: Your airships don't fly, they fall with style! And friendly aircraft should know better than to fly too close to a Valefor, also given the fact that the 'Moondust' system only activates when its being shot at.....


You WISH they'd fall :p

Expect a telegram about that UAV. Axis Nova uses UAVs extensively, and any decent designs are likely to catch our eye.

Axis Nova
Anarresa
30-07-2004, 01:37
Well just so you know Sileetris, I ordered about 370 billion worth of hardware. Check your telegrams.
West Scotland
30-07-2004, 02:21
It has the only radar system capable of defeating the Pallas Athena system, it has a higher max speed and weapons load, and it has a revolutionary countermeasure suite, and thats just the start of it......

The Valefor is designed to take on anything that flies.

Bah, a goose could send that thing plummeting, and kick its royal ass without getting shot down itself.
Markov
30-07-2004, 03:54
so what do you think of my plane?
Sileetris
30-07-2004, 04:27
West Scotland: Regardless of whether you are talking about a plane or the animal, the Valefor could suck it up and spit it out.

Markov: Its pretty cool, but this thread is for comments on the Valefor :P. The black lines in the texture look like air intakes though, you might want to fix that.

In any case, Champaign for all!
Markov
30-07-2004, 04:33
HSCDEADGR and Athena do totaly different things right?
Sileetris
30-07-2004, 04:47
Yeah, HSCDEADGR is an advanced radar suite, Pallas Athena is an active stealth system. One detects, one conceals.
Markov
30-07-2004, 18:28
OOC:

If possible i'd like to purchase the HSCDEADGR system from you for use on my plane. Please tell me the price.
Sileetris
31-07-2004, 04:47
HSCDEADGR is only available to close allies, sorry....
Scandavian States
01-08-2004, 17:22
Okay, now I know this radar system of yours isn't likely to work at all. I was under the assumption that this system was ground-based and used actual physical relays instead of the atmosphere.

1) Bouncing a signal off the atmosphere is a good way to scatter a radar signal, you couldn't get a good return against any passive stealth aircraft I can think of, much less a B-52.

2) Any return you do get is going to be radio noise, simple geometry dictates that the radio signal is going to go back the way it came, which means it's going to get even more scrambled when it hits the atmosphere a second time. Hell, if gets close to the ionosphere the signal is going to be lost, period.

3) You aren't taking into account the fact that both the source and the target would be incredibly fast and have freedom of movement. Let's assume for a second that indeed this does work, by the time you get the return gets back to where it was sent, the source aircraft won't be there to receive it and the target aircraft won't be where the return signal say it is.

4) This system is pretty much at the mercy of solar phenomena like sunspots, solar storms, and solar wind. That means that even if this system did work as you said it would, which I'm pretty damn sure now it won't, it wouldn't be reliable 100% of the time.

5) You are right that Athena couldn't jam this, but then again Athena wouldn't concern itself with random noise.


Of course, you can continue to insist that your system will work, but I won't believe it until a radar tech from the Air Force says it will. Frankly this system still hasn't solved the problem of passive stealth and doesn't even begin to address active stealth systems. You crippled your system by making it more complicated than it had to be, Taiwan got it right the first time, you need to try again.
Sileetris
01-08-2004, 22:35
1+2) The signal isn' scrambled when it hits the atmosphere, its deflected.

3) Very funny, we wont be there to receive something that travels at the speed of light. Thats like saying you can move fast enough to shine a flashlight in a mirror and not see its return.

4) Solar phenomenon affect all radio wave systems anyway.

5) Actually, thats a cool idea, having a semi-active radar system that disguises its pulses as random noise.......

I've already explained its counters to both passive and active........

Passive: No passive system can dissipate radar perfectly. As the computer notices a higher amount of 'ghost' returns from a certain area, it becomes obvious something is there.

Active: If the active system jams the radar totally, it leaves a hole of no returns in the grid, making it stand out. Since it doesn't know the actual source of the radar, it is unable to field a proper decoy signal, again alerting the system to its presence.
New Empire
01-08-2004, 22:58
"Actually, thats a cool idea, having a semi-active radar system that disguises its pulses as random noise......."

Uh, what did you think LPI (And to the extent that defeats Athena), NPI was?
Sileetris
01-08-2004, 23:16
I meant in a flashbulb type effect, like that one function of Pallas Athena that pulses every once in a while to avoid being detected fully by passive radar...
New Empire
01-08-2004, 23:34
Actually, that stuff isn't detected by radar, it's detected by RWR (Radar Warning Recievers). I don't think there is an active version of those, and if there was a pulse of background noise, it might be easier to detect (A pattern of spikes in background noise, perhaps).

That would be pretty simple to do though, just modify an American APG-77.

In any case, Taiwan's NPI does that kind of thing better.
Scandavian States
02-08-2004, 01:19
1+2) The signal isn' scrambled when it hits the atmosphere, its deflected.

3) Very funny, we wont be there to receive something that travels at the speed of light. Thats like saying you can move fast enough to shine a flashlight in a mirror and not see its return.

4) Solar phenomenon affect all radio wave systems anyway.

5) Actually, thats a cool idea, having a semi-active radar system that disguises its pulses as random noise.......

I've already explained its counters to both passive and active........

Passive: No passive system can dissipate radar perfectly. As the computer notices a higher amount of 'ghost' returns from a certain area, it becomes obvious something is there.

Active: If the active system jams the radar totally, it leaves a hole of no returns in the grid, making it stand out. Since it doesn't know the actual source of the radar, it is unable to field a proper decoy signal, again alerting the system to its presence.


1/2) I'm saying that bouncing a radar signal without a satellite relay is going to screw the signal up. In fact, I'm not even sure it's possible to bounce focused radar beams off the atmosphere.

3) Considering that fighters close a around a kilometer per second and it takes a radar signal about .14 seconds to source-space-target, the source fighter will most certainly be out of position.

Passive: With effective RAM and proper geometry in the aircraft design, an aircraft can, and often does in NS, look no bigger than a golf ball. Also, radars are programmed to ignore such things as extremely small objects travelling at extremely fast speeds, if you program your radars to not do that then your radars are going to see what's not there more often that they see what is there.

Active: I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Radar Black Hole argument doesn't work because a radar can't differentiate between air and what has effectively become air. The radar simply does not know it's there. Also, even the most focused radar radiates in every direction, giving away the source of the radar signal, the only realy way to hide an aircraft it to not go active.

And like I said earlier, until whoever runs the USAF bomber EW upgrade program concedes that this system would work against the new B-52 pods, I'm going to seriously doubt its viability.
Sileetris
02-08-2004, 02:16
1/2: How do you think radio was sent at long distances before satellites? HAM radio does this, and so does the radar that tracks storms hundreds of miles out to sea. If my dad could get a signal from Florida to Poland back in the 70s-80s, I think a supercomputer could figure out how to bounce radar at normal ranges in the 2010's.

3: You're wording is a bit confusing. By source-space-target, do you mean outer space? If you do, see above, we don't use satellites for it. The .14 seconds thing is a completely useless number as well, because that doesn't apply to all ranges. Finally, your notion that the planes would be out of position, if correct, would also invalidate conventional radar.

Passive: We see that golf ball multiple times from multiple angles, we aren't going to ignore it, normal glitches appear only for short times, planes appear constantly.

Active: It will leave a hole because we will be unable to see ground clutter past it. If air is transparant, active radar cancelling is a smudge. If you saw the diagram I put up on the other thread, you'd know what I'm talking about when I say the source can't be identified passively. Even with a leak of energy from the source plane, conventional radar will see hundreds of stronger sources, and the leak will probably be filtered out as a ghost signal anyway.

As you aren't that person, and we've been able to counter your arguements all the time, I think you're in no position to judge its viability anyway.
Scandavian States
02-08-2004, 03:34
Actually, you've conveniently ignored a lot of my points. However, I suspect you don't understand them in the first place, so I'm not going to bother anymore. But, as a parting note, I suggest you think through in your head how your radar is going to pick up a golf ball-sized passive target while it's white screening the scope to pick out active stealth targets. One or the other, but no radar can manage both.
Sileetris
02-08-2004, 07:32
Remember kids: When you can't win an arguement, call the other party stupid and say they aren't arguing properly!

(it doesn't need to 'white screen the scope' to detect active radar, active radar is unable to deliver a correct response and gives itself away)
Chardonay
02-08-2004, 09:16
Some of what you're saying is right, seleetria.. but not all...

Yes, it is very possible to bounce radio off the atmosphere... HOWEVER, there is an signifigant power drop and the signal is dispursed and scattered. The return will be filled with massive amounts of noise... and will be so weak as to be undetectable.

You can't have enough power to run the system in a fighter... impossible. Possibly on an AWACs plane or a ship, but not a fighter.

Atmospheric effects cause perminant glitches, and the golfball would be masked by air currents, random noise, and flying animals. You will recieve many many false returns from birds.
Sileetris
02-08-2004, 09:34
The fighter version, its true, is out of SS's tech bracket(its supermodern, only possible on NS type tech). In any case, I happen to know of a recent antenna design innovation that gives 1.5 times more power vs. size, so I have some initial power working to my advantage.

The usage on a fighter(particularly this one, other planes aren't designed with such high power demands in mind counldn't) is only possible because of the tremendous energy inside energy storage devices aboard the plane. The kinetic energy batteries provide what essentially amounts to another engine in power output as they run down. The cold plasma is superconducting, allowing for even more stored energy(and since the computers and wiring are made with it, improved speed and efficiency). The Valefor is typically being charged up at all times when it is out of combat, because in-combat it uses electricity like mad.

Like I said though, birds and golfballs don't travel at the speed of sound at 30,000 ft. The computer is smart enough to leave out permanent and stationary glitches in favor of fast moving suspicious ones(incidentally this does give extremely stealthy helicopters a small chance of being overlooked, but whatever).
Chardonay
02-08-2004, 10:56
Sow by flying low and slow, using ECM to fog the position of the aircraft, and by using a stealthed shape thje radar can be penetrated?
Sileetris
02-08-2004, 20:56
Essentially, although that works against normal radar too. If you are detected by any of the craft's other sensor systems though, you get marked as a target and the computer begins tracking you anyway.
Chardonay
02-08-2004, 21:18
Agreed... there really isn't much difference between your system and mine, when it's land based... except I don't bother with bouncing the radar off of the ionosphere so I get stronger returns and don't need as much computing power. Of course, that lets the enemy know where the transmitter is too...
Sileetris
03-08-2004, 09:46
RCNN presents, as part of our special on the Valefor:
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The Showdown at Strassilipol
A recount of an aerial battle during the Kuban civil war.
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Kuban was at the brink of disaster. Various internal and external factions vyed for control of the government, resulting in riots, shootouts, and tiny warzones throughout the country. The CRDF(our regional defense force) was called in to insure the general populace was kept safe, by deploying troops to guard residential areas from occupation, and by stopping destructive rioters. On the night of June 18th, 2016, a new threat emerged, but the Valefor 29a was there to stop it......

On patrol in the Bay of Kuban was Pilot Jeff Michaels of the CRDF strike carrier Virgil. Escorting him were two Dastana defense drones, still in prototype phase, but undergoing final combat testing. His assignment was simply to patrol the area, maintaining a presence in the air for the CRDF, escorting airliners, and policing no military fly zones. He was about to be engaged in one of the fiercest dogfights in military history, and he was going to do it alone.

Over the last 6 months, the island of Moratia had been recieving shipments of black market weapons, unfortunetly the CRDF was too busy to actively police this problem. Well, give an inch, and they take a mile. Give them AKs, and theyll sneak in F-22s.....

"I recall quite vividly my panic when the radar began displaying F-22s swarming into the air....before I could even get off a word of alarm to my carrier, the computer informed me that my radio had been jammed......". Michaels was not in a good position, without contact to his base carrier, he couldn't ask for reinforcements, and in legal terms he couldn't engage the enemies until he had approval.

"I hailed them on all frequencies, told them to turn around and land, and I swear I could hear them laughing when the radar lock warning flared up....", Ten F-22 Raptors was no laughing matter. Michaels sent one of the Dastanas forward to intercept the missiles and began locking on to his opponents, he was allowed to return fire and he was going to do it or die trying.

"I honestly didn't expect to live through that, right from the start, seeing ten enemy planes was bad, and all I had were two robots to help me out, but looking back on it, I wouldn't have had anything else in their place...." The first Dastana swept into the missiles path, Buckler guns blazing, and took out 6 of them, leaving 4. "I almost jumped out of my seat when I saw the radar clear up like that. Seeing 6 potentially fatal missiles destroyed instantly made me realize just what kind of technological advances I had on my side."

Confidence bolstered, Michaels sent missiles out their way, but they were already splitting up. In the meantime, he had to take evasive manuevers to avoid the remaining missiles. The Dastana following close to him peeled off to take care of them, and did so.

Two of Michaels missiles, 'Cutthroat' multirole missiles, hit home, lighting the night sky with twin lances of white hot plasma. The Raptors, now down to eight, realized their only chance at winning would be banding together for a head on attack to overwhelm the Valefor's defenses. The Dastanas were busy chasing two raptors into range of their close-in missile systems, leaving six of the warbirds to contend with the Valefor. They had already split into a fan shape in front of the Valefor, which was now becoming narrower and narrower as they closed in, firing missiles. Michaels knew he couldn't dodge all those missiles without a lot more speed, so he kicked in the afterburners and flipped on his PFR system. Pulling straight up he pushed the plane's formidable engine to its maximum and approached mach 5.5 within seconds.

"I was pushed back in my seat really hard, but I felt good when I saw the missiles bunching up in their path below me, because I knew my Buckler system would be able to pick at them much easier." The plan worked just as Michaels hoped and his plane's Buckler units were able to easily tear apart the nine missiles. Turning the plane around into a nosedive, Michaels planned to use his potential energy to good use. The Raptors were all below him now, providing easy targets for missiles heading straight down with the help of gravity. One of his Dastana drones had already been shot down, the other had managed a kill but was now out of range for a while, it was up to him to take out the seven raptors. "I had no intention of losing due to ammo conservation, so once I had them in my crosshairs I let loose."

Michaels did what Mechwarrior calls and alpha-strike and put out everything. Eightteen Cutthroat missiles served to pin them into evasive manuevers, and Ten Imp short range missiles acted like a shotgun spread to knock them out of the air. It worked. Faced with three or more missiles each the raptors were crushed pitifully, leaving the one remaining raptor that had shot down one of Michaels drones earlier....

"That guy was really freaked out, he was at supercruise and getting as far away as he could, I tried hailing him on all channels but he either didn't get the message because of jamming, or he was determined not to be captured. Either way I couldn't let him get any closer to Strassilipol, because that was the capital and it was a priority not to let any side display air power to the populace....."

Michaels, low on missiles and in need of rest from all the high-gs he had pulled in his acceleration, opted to use the Valefor's biggest gun; its plasma cannon. Catching up to the slow raptor easily, Michaels hailed one more time for the raptor to surrender, and hearing no response, did what needed to be done. Pulling the trigger, the night sky over the Kuban bay was lit up with actinic glare that immitated, no, surpassed the sun in brilliance. The raptor was singed out of existence instantly as the spear of plasma shot away into the distance.

"Nothing compares to using the plasma cannon in combat. We train with the thing in simulators and against tanks and UAVs, but feeling the magnetic surge below you and seeing the cockpit polarize at night gives you an appreciation for technology that you will take home when you land...."

Michaels called the surviving Dastan back to his side and sweeped the area for further opposition, also noting the parachutes in the water where his adversaries had ejected. Half an hour later, his radio came back on as ground teams in Moratia disabled the antennas and arrested the ground crews. He was congratualeted personally by the captain of the Virgil and landed safely.

Later on it was discovered the F-22s were going to destroy the nuclear power plant outside of Strassilipol for a corporate faction that controlled the only other power plant in the area. Stopping the F-22s prevented hundreds of millions of people from losing electricity in the middle of one of the worst nighttime riots seen yet. Kuban eventually recovered from the revolution and its new, more progressive government has rebel outbreaks under control, and has continued business even better than before; since then, the space elevator colony of New Kuban was completed ahead of schedule, and now provides homes to millions of space trading, engineering, and artistic people.

Jeff Michaels experience was proof of many things; with the right tools, and the right training, anything is possible.
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This program brought to you by RelicCola, the official drink of awesome fighter pilots everywhere!
Sileetris
04-08-2004, 06:09
BUMP, comments?
Chardonay
04-08-2004, 07:20
[ooc very impressive... a good RP of modern versus future, with a reasonable conclusion... Anyone who attacks someone with that much of a tech advantage in a stand up fight deserves what he gets =)
Harlesburg
30-09-2004, 09:27
my theory is we just accept what they say because theyve found a way to make it work?