NationStates Jolt Archive

1) Sevaris must accept that his interference in kahta's occupation of caelta sparked the conflict, whether or not he felt it was right.

2) Sevaris must make monetary reparations to all the nations who lost equipment to Sevaris attacks.

3) Sevaris must disband all WMD weapon programs and dispose of existing stockpiles (Chemical, Nuclear, Biological)

4) International Inspectors from a variety of nations will see to it that #3 is carried out.

5) Sevaris must pledge to reduce their armed forces to a number consistent with national defense and defense of her borders. This will be no more than 1% of the population, will not include fast response forces, and it may not conscript soldiers in any time but an attack on its national self, when soldiers are landing on sevaris to destroy it.

6) International Inspectors from a variety of nations will see to it that #5 is carried out.

7) Sevaris must not have naval elements capable of attack over 250km, and 50km not counting cruise missiles. This does not interfere with naval air power of sevaris, and its carriers will be untouched, presuming it does not build an unproportionate amount which can amount for rearming.

8) International Inspectors from a variety of nations will see to it that #7 is carried out.

9) Sevaris's national sovereignty will be guaranteed by all signatories of the treaty, and Sevaris will not get further involved in Kahta affairs unless Kahta requests Sevaris to get involved.

10) Sevaris's national borders will not be violated so long as it abides by the terms outlined in the treaty, and does not do anything past the reasons for the current conflict that would bring new attacks on Sevaris.

11) Sevaris will pledge to engage in no aggresive action ever. Protective, coalition, and humanitarian actions do not conflict with the definition of aggresive..

12) Sevaris will pledge to pay reparations to the families of soldiers who died because of their aggression.

13) International Inspectors from a variety of nations will see to it that #12 is carried out.

14) All parties involved in the war will formally apologize to all other parties if they cause material damage to an enemy force.

15) All POWs and "detainees" taken during the war will be released with all due speed, unless they broke international law, where they will await trial by an international court.

16) Any and all displaced persons (refugees) will be permitted to peacefully return home.

17) Sevaris will not annex, create a protectorate, merge with, or in any way control a nation deemed "real life nation", such as african nations, european ones, etc.

18) The power to carry-out the terms laid forth in this treaty will rest in the hands of the allies against sevaris, as well as any one else of the international community who decides to help.

19) Sevaris will be given full permission to have competitive rebuilding of its nation.

20) The International community will observe the rebuilding of the Sevaris armed forces. The Sevarian forces will be restricted to 1% of voluntary soldiers. Its budget for its military cannot excede 8% of its GDP.

21) All national borders and territory will be restored to the status quo (pre-war boundaries). Caelta will stay under Kahta under the treaty, as that was controlled pre-"war".

22) Sevaris must maintain no offense ballistic missiles regardless of range. Sevaris must have no NBC weapons and no weapon whose sole purpose is NBC delivery. Ballistic missiles will be voted on by the international community bi-monthly, until the community decided it is okay. All nations will be allowed to vote, if they choosse(in the style of poll).

Once again, the USSCR urges Sevaris not to accept these conditions.

Chellis believes all of these conditions are fair, and if sevaris has any complaints, we can most likely change it to fit. The main points are that Sevaris stop agressing against other nations, and stop making a fuss about caelta.

It is Kahta who the leash should be placed upon. He deliberately attacked Sevaris on his HOME soil.

It is Kahta who the leash should be placed upon. He deliberately attacked Sevaris on his HOME soil.

No Kahta attacks have been made however. Sevaris interfered with Kahta's occupation with Caelta, and Sevaris was the one who shot down Kahta jets. Sevaris has been the catalyst of everything.

You little SOB. You've copied parts of my treaty word for word.


http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=343273

I take that back. You have not copied parts. You've copied most of it.

You really do think you can get away with anything.

I take that back. You have not copied parts. You've copied most of it.

You really do think you can get away with anything.

A. Yes, I think I can get away with anything.

B. I can copy what you did. It doesnt fall under intellectual property, and most of it is edited anyways.

C. Cry all you want. I honestly dont care. I did copy and rework yours. Go whine and then roleplay in your own secluded world some more.

Sevaris must this, Sevaris must that, Sevaris cannot this

Where is 'Chellis apologizes for killing Sevaris PoWs and pays damages'?

And who gives you the right to decide how strong his armed forces can be? That should be the job of neutral observers, and then with your 'killing all Sevaris soldiers' tactic, you are the one who should disband units.

I dont see how you can call these terms fair, they are not.

Sevaris must this, Sevaris must that, Sevaris cannot this

Where is 'Chellis apologizes for killing Sevaris PoWs and pays damages'?

And who gives you the right to decide how strong his armed forces can be? That should be the job of neutral observers, and then with your 'killing all Sevaris soldiers' tactic, you are the one who should disband units.

I dont see how you can call these terms fair, they are not.

Chellis asks that vollmeria not participate in bold faced lies. We have not killed any Prisoners of war because we have not taken any Prisoners of war.

If you are refering to the sevaris invasion of chellian algeria, he completely deserved what he got. He invaded chellian land and killed chellian soldiers un-provoked.

Sevaris is an aggresive nation and needs to have limits on his military. If a neutral party wants to suggest different numbers, we are open to it. However, we think our numbers are both fair and yet restrictive enough to stop Sevaris aggresion, or should we say, further sevaris aggresion.

1) I do not accept these ludicrous terms, and I advise Sevaris to do the same.

2) This is palgerised from CM's thread, so I would rather see negotiations go on there: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=343273

CM is not an official ally of the forces against sevaris, so he is in no place to give surrendur terms to sevaris.

We think our terms are fair, and if you have any arguments, we are willing to change it.

Chellis asks that vollmeria not participate in bold faced lies. We have not killed any Prisoners of war because we have not taken any Prisoners of war.

If you are refering to the sevaris invasion of chellian algeria, he completely deserved what he got. He invaded chellian land and killed chellian soldiers un-provoked.

Sevaris is an aggresive nation and needs to have limits on his military. If a neutral party wants to suggest different numbers, we are open to it. However, we think our numbers are both fair and yet restrictive enough to stop Sevaris aggresion, or should we say, further sevaris aggresion.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=342105

You attacked Sevaris without any warning (Godmod if you ask me, troops just show up ready to fire, but i'll accept it too make this official)
Sevaris made the nextstatment:
We sincerely regret crossing into Chellian territory. We were not aware of that, and we wished we had been informed from a reliable source earlier. We shall withdraw to Tunisia. We are just trying to help with the Africa problem.
We think it would be best if someone would make a listing of territories that nations own in the real world

And offcourse we must add:
Chellis has quite simply stated that Sevaris will regret landing in a chellian territory, and that not one sevaris troop will become a PoW, or allowed to escape. You have brought upon yourself a great power, and will die at its hands. We wont declare war on you if you decide to keep your losses and not pursue this further. And, of course, we feel happy when the time to decide comes.
ooc:there goes your (rather dumb if you ask me) satellite argument.

He pulled back without firing a single shot, the proof is there. When he pulled back you followed him and killed all his troops.

What more is necessary to prove my argument? Nothing its all there!

I think basically the opposite of what you said would be fair.

Exactly what Vollmeria said, you were the agressor. A June / July nation is no threat to you but you still try to impose this ludicrous treaty (it's mainly the restrictions on arms and offensive action) so you can save face.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=342105

You attacked Sevaris without any warning (Godmod if you ask me, troops just show up ready to fire, but i'll accept it too make this official)
Sevaris made the nextstatment:


And offcourse we must add:

ooc:there goes your (rather dumb if you ask me) satellite argument.

He pulled back without firing a single shot, the proof is there. When he pulled back you followed him and killed all his troops.

What more is necessary to prove my argument? Nothing its all there!


OOC: Dont claim godmode. I have millions of men deployed in chellian territories, they were plenty ready to fight, especially since I have lots of wars and war threats recently.

IC: Sevaris did kill chellian troops by crossing the border. Chellian borders are militantly guarded and closed, so in order to make it onto chellian land, they would have to shoot through.

We made a stand against being invaded. He shouldnt have moved into algeria even if we werent there, its an obvious sign of aggresion. The point of killing his troops was to show we simply werent going to allow foreign nations to brute force their way into chellian territory. Dislike our style of war, but we were in the right to fight.

The arms restrictions and military restrictions are an afterthought to the treaty. If Sevaris and others are willing to negotiate, we are willing to make them pretty much nil, provided Sevaris really makes an effort to show he wont be making aggresive moves(He has been trying to take RL nations constantly), and his pledge of support to Caelta rebels, if im not mistaken, is certainly hostile towards Kahta.

Our main focus is to make sure Sevaris stops trying to agress.

OOC: Chellis what happened to those helos?

IC: That is really up to Sevaris. My nation is merely defending an ally.

OOC: Dont claim godmode. I have millions of men deployed in chellian territories, they were plenty ready to fight, especially since I have lots of wars and war threats recently.

IC: Sevaris did kill chellian troops by crossing the border. Chellian borders are militantly guarded and closed, so in order to make it onto chellian land, they would have to shoot through.

We made a stand against being invaded. He shouldnt have moved into algeria even if we werent there, its an obvious sign of aggresion. The point of killing his troops was to show we simply werent going to allow foreign nations to brute force their way into chellian territory. Dislike our style of war, but we were in the right to fight.

The arms restrictions and military restrictions are an afterthought to the treaty. If Sevaris and others are willing to negotiate, we are willing to make them pretty much nil, provided Sevaris really makes an effort to show he wont be making aggresive moves(He has been trying to take RL nations constantly), and his pledge of support to Caelta rebels, if im not mistaken, is certainly hostile towards Kahta.

Our main focus is to make sure Sevaris stops trying to agress.

ooc: you never RPed the death of those guards, so it is no argument in this case. Besides its exactly because of these stupid RL claims that people(especially new ppl) try to take RL territory. I ignore RL claims (that includes your thread).

IC: So there is the proof of Chellis agression, killing soldiers on retreat or surrender. And they clearly stand by their policy.
In his first post Sevaris states that he entered Algeria to help the people there, not to fight. Once you showed up he apologized for his mistake and pulled out imediatly. There is no proof at all that he killed your border guards, if it exists: Show me! You dont even know how he entered your nation, you just made up the borderguard-stuff to have an argument.

He has supported rebels in Caelta because of massmurder, thats hardly agressive. Khata is the one who killed people, Sevaris did only what is right and tried to protect them. I see no agression in Sevaris' moves.

Vollmeria urges Sevaris not to accept these conditions!

OOC: I think this is a case of an older nation abusing his status to bash a new nation that made an OOC mistake.

OOC: I think this is a case of an older nation abusing his status to bash a new nation that made an OOC mistake.

Exactly what i was thinking.

ooc: you never RPed the death of those guards, so it is no argument in this case. Besides its exactly because of these stupid RL claims that people(especially new ppl) try to take RL territory. I ignore RL claims (that includes your thread).

IC: So there is the proof of Chellis agression, killing soldiers on retreat or surrender. And they clearly stand by their policy.
In his first post Sevaris states that he entered Algeria to help the people there, not to fight. Once you showed up he apologized for his mistake and pulled out imediatly. There is no proof at all that he killed your border guards, if it exists: Show me! You dont even know how he entered your nation, you just made up the borderguard-stuff to have an argument.

He has supported rebels in Caelta because of massmurder, thats hardly agressive. Khata is the one who killed people, Sevaris did only what is right and tried to protect them. I see no agression in Sevaris' moves.

Vollmeria urges Sevaris not to accept these conditions!


OOC: Chellian borders are strictly closed, every part of them. Border guard deaths were impossible not to happen, as they would have fired at Sevaris troops, and sevaris admitted he was on Algerian land, so he had to get past them, something they would not allow to happen before death. Also, I dont care if you ignore RL nation claims. Sevaris obviously doesnt.

IC:

*Shows pictures of more than fifty chellians*

200,000 soldiers landed in algeria, through the mediterranean. Thats hardly peaceful.

There was no chellian aggression. There was chellian defense. Our defense may be brutal, but it was defense, as he landed on our land, and we punished his soldiers for that.

Chellian borders are closed to everyone and we have minefields and MG emplacements enforcing this. Any attempted passing of a minefield is subjet to investigation by quick response helicopter, and the enemy is fired upon if they try to pass. Our borders are strictly closed, have been for a long time.

Whether or not Sevaris felt in the right to help Caelta rebels, they provided, or offered to provide weapons to them, indirectly helping kill Khata soldiers. No kahta soldier directly or indirectly lead to a sevaris death before this incident.

Chellis has given Sevaris very nice terms, and is even willing to reduce them. Sevaris would be much better off with a good terms surrendur than a war, even if it won.

It is a shame when --dare I say?-- stupid people rise to a position of great power. Nationstates is all well and good, but they should require some amount of SKILL to rise to a position of power... Not going inactive for 3 months and coming back with millions of population more. =/

Anywho, in situations like these I do follow the CM doctrine...to a lesser extent. I ignore them! w00t.. Simple.

And, in recommendation for Sevaris, I will RP as a NEUTRAL party starting a peace conference which will end in a COMPROMISE between you and Kahta, not a set of rules imposed on you.

Chellis: perhaps it was a different Algeria, afterall the NS world is serveral multiverses thick in any one lcoation...

OOC:

Of course this woudl all be redundant if all had lsitened to me days ago...

Prime Minister Bull's already strained administration has spoken out against the seriously depressing nature of the amaturish attempts at one-upmanship against tiny Sevaris. London has expressed its absolute pity for the aimless, souless despots perched atop the national tigers of Chellis, Kahta, and their self-interested cohorts.

PM Bull himself has suggested that the attackers looming over Sevaris simply stop it, reminding them that it is costing hundreds of millions of pounds, and return to the desperate struggle towards civilisation at home.

In a seperate gathering of Parliament, the PM mentioned that restriction of Sevaris' liberties in any degree would only be likely to end-up reflecting unfavourably upon the corrupt regimes that imparted same. He said that invading Sevaris would end in hundreds of thousands of deaths, hundreds of billions of pounds in expenses, political suicide for leaderships in anything close to democratic states, and a long-running partisan war and international periah status for the attackers.

In short, it made absolutely no sense to anybody in the UK. Why in the living [blank] was this aggression in continuance?

Axis Nova will stand against Chellian agression on general principles and declares itself willing to support Sevaris in this conflict.

Chellis has attacked a nation that did exactly what he asked and mowed down his troops mercilessly. What possible worth can a treaty with this nation of vipers be?

Axis Nova has a slightly different proposition, and it's rather simple:

1) Chellis butts out.

2) Sevaris and kahta settle this on their own.

Axis Nova State Department

Again, I cannot, in good conscience, sign this treaty. It has Versailles written all over it. I will not allow my nation to be dismembered.

Premier Alec Mannerheim
Republic of Sevaris

Actually on rereading thsi version of a treaty it is a good bit better than Cm's version although it still features a few debatable isues.

OOC: Chellian borders are strictly closed, every part of them. Border guard deaths were impossible not to happen, as they would have fired at Sevaris troops, and sevaris admitted he was on Algerian land, so he had to get past them, something they would not allow to happen before death. Also, I dont care if you ignore RL nation claims. Sevaris obviously doesnt.

IC:

*Shows pictures of more than fifty chellians*

200,000 soldiers landed in algeria, through the mediterranean. Thats hardly peaceful.

There was no chellian aggression. There was chellian defense. Our defense may be brutal, but it was defense, as he landed on our land, and we punished his soldiers for that.

Chellian borders are closed to everyone and we have minefields and MG emplacements enforcing this. Any attempted passing of a minefield is subjet to investigation by quick response helicopter, and the enemy is fired upon if they try to pass. Our borders are strictly closed, have been for a long time.

Whether or not Sevaris felt in the right to help Caelta rebels, they provided, or offered to provide weapons to them, indirectly helping kill Khata soldiers. No kahta soldier directly or indirectly lead to a sevaris death before this incident.

Chellis has given Sevaris very nice terms, and is even willing to reduce them. Sevaris would be much better off with a good terms surrendur than a war, even if it won.
OOC:Sevaris recognizes RL claims because he doesnt know any better, People like you always take advantage of the inexperience of new nations.
The borderguard-thing is ignored, nowhere in the thread did you RP these men reporting an attack or fighting thus they werent there. Is it a coincidence that you allie yourself to Midlonia? He uses the same style!
These things may work with new nations, but i'm not new at all.

It is exactly this type of arrogance and refusal to compromise by the aggressors that seems to make war inevitable.

It is exactly this type of arrogance and refusal to compromise by the aggressors that seems to make war inevitable.


OOC: Hello, i don't saee ANYone compromising here. Seeing as how the only death so far was caused BY Sevaris, and the war stemmed from his lack of diplomatic skills, i think you should reconsider blaming Kahta entirely. If Sevaris wanted peace, he would have been prepared to discuss points of the treaty, instead of turning it down outright. He also wouldn't threaten the "aggressors" with destruction after 24 hours unless he was prepared to go to war. If he wants war, why should we stop him?

In my mind, any treaty proposed by the other side would benefit them directly- so, after reading the bull that comprised the CM and Chellis treaties-we have decided that the only one that could even possibly be acceptable would be a treaty proposed by a neutral party.

He didn't have much choice. Look at the forces your side has deployed around him. It is clear that if Sevaris does not somehow break that blockade it will highly probably be starved, literally. No nation of his size in its' right mind would actually want a war with someone the size of Kahta, but your side has essentially left him no choice. Furthermore, if he wanted a war, he would surely have begun one by now? What you are saying is like blaming a snake for biting you if you back it into a corner brandishing a large stick.

In the issue of Sevaris' "invasion" of Chellis owned land, it has become quite obvious what has happened. Sevaris was trying to help, and in his own (understandable) ignorance, he stepped into a hornets' nest. Sevaris did all he could to make amends once his mistake came to light, but Chellis smelled blood and obviously recognized an easy kill. Sevaris was never a threat to Chellis. If Chellis had allowed Sevaris to retreat peacefully, we would not hear any more about it. It seems obvious to me that Sevaris has already payed most dearly, and the only condition I would make would be that Sevaris stay far away from Chellis, which I would advise anyway. Chellis, you really do think you have the run of the town, don't you? I have seen other abuses of your power as well, and every time your weak excuses just don't cut it. It won't last forever. If you continue this kind of cheap war-mongering, people will rise to stand against you.

OOC- this is in no ways to be considered a threat by me on Chellis, simply a statement of what I personally think inevitable.

Chellis seems to think it can dictate leaders of smaller nations around. Not this one. We'll not cave in to his little "peace treaty", which, in effect, signs away my nation to annexation and colonization.

Chellis is acting like the international equivalent of the schoolyard bully here. When dealing with a bully, you don't cave in and do what he says...

You give him a swift kick in the balls.

Bravo to Sevaris for standing firm in the face of Communist Mississippi and Chellian aggression.

Axis Nova

If sevaris is willing to actually negotiate, here are new terms which we are still fine with.

1) Sevaris must accept that his interference in kahta's occupation of caelta sparked the conflict, whether or not he felt it was right. Both sides were responsible for escalating the conflict, but Sevaris was the one that begun it, whether or not he felt he was in the right to do it. This treaty does not make judgement there.

2) Sevaris must make monetary reparations for the F/A-18 that Kahta lost.

3) Sevaris's national sovereignty will be guaranteed by all signatories of the treaty, and Sevaris will not get further involved in Kahta affairs unless Kahta requests Sevaris to get involved. Sevaris will also not get involved in any of the allies of Kahta's affairs unless it is asked to.

4) Sevaris's national borders will not be violated so long as it abides by the terms outlined in the treaty, and does not do anything past the reasons for the current conflict that would bring new attacks on Sevaris. Any nation that does attack sevaris past this treaty is subject to retaliation in the full.

5) Sevaris will pledge to engage in no aggresive action. Protective, coalition, and humanitarian actions do not conflict with the definition of aggresive. This will be withdrawn after three (rl) weeks, and afterward Sevaris will be under close international watch for un-just aggresion.

6) Sevaris will pledge to pay reparations to the families of soldiers who died because of their actions.

7) All parties involved in the war will formally apologize to all other parties if they cause material damage to an enemy force.

8) All POWs and "detainees" taken during the war will be released with all due speed, unless they broke international law, where they will await trial by an international court.

9) Any and all displaced persons (refugees) will be permitted to peacefully return home.

10) Sevaris will not annex, create a protectorate, merge with, or in any way control a nation deemed "real life nation", such as african nations, european ones, etc.

11) The power to carry-out the terms laid forth in this treaty will rest in the hands of the international community, although it must be done at least partially by neutral partys.

12) Sevaris will be given full permission to have competitive rebuilding of its nation.

13) All national borders and territory will be restored to the status quo (pre-war boundaries). Caelta will stay under Kahta under the treaty, as that was controlled pre-"war". Sevaris will not interfere in any way with Kahta's Caelta conflict, over political denouncing Kahta.

I will not start negotiations until the blockade is lifted. That's my position, and I'm sticking to it.

I will not start negotiations until the blockade is lifted. That's my position, and I'm sticking to it.

Then you are a fool.

Again, expecting a cornered animal to be calm when you're standing over it with a club. Not gonna happen.

Again, expecting a cornered animal to be calm when you're standing over it with a club. Not gonna happen.

We offer peace, they offer war. If we stand down, we have no assurance that sevaris wont take the oppertunity to blow us out of the water.

My Navy will not leave my waters, for now, anyway. We will go to no negotiations unless the blockade is lifted. I will not change my mind on that.

We urge Chellis to withdraw its troops and navy from Sevaris as a gesture of good faith to avoid casualties. You have the guarantee of being a really huge nation that stepping down that blockade will not endanger your national security in anyway. Simnilarly, we urge Sevaris to make a good faith gesture of their choosing to indicate that they do not intend to take advantage of a lowering of Chellis'(and others) blockade against your nation.

We urge Chellis to withdraw its troops and navy from Sevaris as a gesture of good faith to avoid casualties. You have the guarantee of being a really huge nation that stepping down that blockade will not endanger your national security in anyway. Simnilarly, we urge Sevaris to make a good faith gesture of their choosing to indicate that they do not intend to take advantage of a lowering of Chellis'(and others) blockade against your nation.

Our main concern is that nations will try to rush supplies to sevaris during this good-faith period, and take advantage of negotiations. Chellis is willing to pull its ships further out into international waters, say 10-20km, as long as Sevaris agrees not to attack us or abuse this period to just get supplies.

Perhaps what you really want then is an agreement in which Sevaris recognizes that it has suffered no lasting damage from this period and that therefore any aid rushed to it can be considered an extreme military buildup. The House strongly requests that you lower the blockade to at least allow vital nonmilitary imports and exports to travel throughout Sevaris.

We offer peace, they offer war. If we stand down, we have no assurance that sevaris wont take the oppertunity to blow us out of the water.

[OOC: You just called yourself the most powerful country in the world when you told us to stand down and shut up and now you're worried that Sevaris will blow you out of the water?

Where's the logic in that?]

[OOC: You just called yourself the most powerful country in the world when you told us to stand down and shut up and now you're worried that Sevaris will blow you out of the water?

Where's the logic in that?]

OOC: I can be the strongest man in the world, and face the weakest. But give us both rifles and whoever gets the first shot can quite likely win the battle, if not the war.

OOC: I can be the strongest man in the world, and face the weakest. But give us both rifles and whoever gets the first shot can quite likely win the battle, if not the war.


OOC: Bad analogy. This isn't a 1v1 duel, it's one nation's armed forces vs another.

Axis Nova