NationStates Jolt Archive

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=343236


Sevaris, I suggest you sign this treaty immediately.



1) Sevaris must accept the majority of the responsibility for their war of aggression (war-guilt)

2) Sevaris must make monetary reparations to all the nations affected by her aggression.

3) Sevaris must disband all WMD weapon programs and dispose of existing stockpiles (Chemical, Nuclear, Biological)

4) International Inspectors from a variety of nations will see to it that #3 is carried out.

5) Sevaris must pledge to reduce their armed forces to a number consistent with national defense and defense of her borders. (Amount to be determined later)

6) International Inspectors from a variety of nations will see to it that #5 is carried out.

7) Sevaris must reduce the number of battleships, submarines, and aircraft carriers in her armed forces by approximately 50%.

8) International Inspectors from a variety of nations will see to it that #7 is carried out.

9) Sevaris's national sovereignty will be guaranteed by all signatories of the treaty.

10) Sevaris's national borders will not be violated so long as it abides by the terms outlined in the treaty.

11) Sevaris will pledge to engage in no aggressive action for 2 real weeks.

12) Sevaris will pledge to pay reparations to the families of soldiers, mercenaries, and others who died because of their aggression.

13) International Inspectors from a variety of nations will see to it that #12 is carried out.

14) All parties involved in the war will formally apologize to all other parties.

15) All POWs and "detainees" taken during the war will be released with all due speed.

16) Any and all displaced persons (refugees) will be permitted to peacefully return home, even if they must cross through opposing nations to do so.

17) CM will pledge 500 billion dollars to help rebuild nations that were affected by this war that are unable to repair themselves. CM will also urge her allies to do the same.

18) The power to carry-out the terms laid forth in this treaty will rest in the hands of an as yet to be determined group of a variety of nations.

19) CM will receive economic trade deals from Sevaris as compensation for CM rebuiling Sevaris.

20) CM will rebuild the Sevaris armed forces on the standard CM doctrine. The Sevarian forces will be restricted to 140 combat divisions (2,520,000) Their air force will be restricted to 3,000 fixed-wing aircraft. Their naval forces will be reducing the amount of battleships, aircraft carriers, and submarines for a length of time that has yet to be determined.

21) All national borders and territory will be restored to the status quo (pre-war boundaries)

22) Sevaris must maintain no offense ballistic missiles regardless of range. This will not be a permanent requirement though. Sevaris must have no NBC weapons and no weapon whose sole purpose is NBC delivery. (There are many howitzers that can fire either conventional or NBC, but the main purpose is conventional, those are okay. But now SCUD missiles, those are basically NBC delivery systems, thus they are banned)


Occ- When I say "Her" it means the nation "Her", I am a "Him".

Who will sign?

Signatories:

1) Minister of the Interior for Communist Mississippi- Arthur Frick.

2) Senior Vice President for External Affairs Incorporated States of Sarzonia- Mark Lorber.

The people's republic wishes to breakdance

The people's republic wishes to breakdance


Damnit, I've yelled at you before for this sort of crap.


Have you learned nothing?

That treaty is good.

CM is willing to accept the treaty as it is. But we are also willing to work out the specific details and make minor and moderate modifications.

"Let's get ready to negotiate!"

CM you just got an IM.

[OOC: Now what about terms for Kahta?]

IC: The Incorporated States of Sarzonia wish to add its ascent to the treaty.

Mark Lorber
Senior Vice President for External Affairs
Incorporated States of Sarzonia

[OOC: Now what about terms for Kahta?]

IC: The Incorporated States of Sarzonia wish to add its ascent to the treaty.

Mark Lorber
Senior Vice President for External Affairs
Incorporated States of Sarzonia


Occ- The treaty is intended to be for both parties. He must agree to return to all pre-war boundaries etc. Terms that affect both parties. Obviously if it says "Sevaris must" then it's 1 party. But when it says something like everybody return POWs. Well that covers Kahta. He is covered by this treaty.

The Emperor supports this treaty on the grounds that Kahta be allowed to continue his occupation of Caelta, and that all economic sanctions resulting from this incident be lifted.

If such objectives are met then we will support the treaty.


Emperor Erik the 1st of The Itinerate Tree Dweller Empire

Sevaris, I suggest you do not sign this treaty. In its stead we shall hold a peace talk, where you will not have to "obey" a treaty, but compromise to one with Kahta.

The Emperor supports this treaty on the grounds that Kahta be allowed to continue his occupation of Caelta, and that all economic sanctions resulting from this incident be lifted.

If such objectives are met then we will support the treaty.


Emperor Erik the 1st of The Itinerate Tree Dweller Empire

Sarzonia wishes to point out that the treaty stipulates "pre-war" and I believe that should include a withdrawal from Caelta.

Mark Lorber
Senior Vice President for External Affairs
Incorporated States of Sarzonia

The Whittier Pact has chosen not to support Sevaris.

Also, just TG me to make an official peace conference and I'd be glad to.

The war occured after the occupation began, not prior.

The Emperor supports this treaty on the grounds that Kahta be allowed to continue his occupation of Caelta, and that all economic sanctions resulting from this incident be lifted.

If such objectives are met then we will support the treaty.


Emperor Erik the 1st of The Itinerate Tree Dweller Empire


Well was Caelta a Sevaris territory?


If it was he should consider giving it back, if not, he should surely keep it.

Now if it was a Sevaris territory, but it was gained through Sevaris aggression, Kahta should keep it.

Sevaris, I suggest you do not sign this treaty. In its stead we shall hold a peace talk, where you will not have to "obey" a treaty, but compromise to one with Kahta.

We heartily endorse a compromise treaty and as the senior foreign affairs officer of Sarzonia, I would like to attend these talks.

Mark Lorber
Senior Vice President for External Affairs
Incorporated States of Sarzonia

I will only host them if Kahta or Sevaris ask for them. It is not the International Community's business to decide fates of nations.

We too would like to see a conference, but only to discuss the stipulations of the treaty which is already outlined, and possible to change or edit the treaty.

Caelta was not a Sevaris territory. Caelta was taken over by the Kahta government much like any other empire expansion.

Regardless, it is actually Kahta who is the aggressor now.

We will leave that for the conference to decide, if there is one.

The focus of the conference is what is happening NOW. That is, Kahta threatening to invade/invading Sevaris. In this case, he IS the aggressor.

up

bump

1..2...3...4

Get your woman, on the floor

If you want to get up, get down.

If you want to get up, get down...

Well he might as well sign any repartations can i suppose be met out of the commonwealth's pockets (or mine).

Of course semi decent peace talks would be nice.

This agreement will sign away most of his sovereignty with it's punitive arms restrictions and 'agression restrictions'.

This agreement will sign away most of his sovereignty with it's punitive arms restrictions and 'agression restrictions'.


That is why we can work out such problems.


The agreement i put forth was intended to serve as a guide for a possible treaty.


We can keep some terms, alters others, drop some.

Bump and *tag*

I cannot, in good conscience, sign this treaty. It seems too similar to the dreaded Versailles. However, I am amiable to negotiating with Kahta about the issue.

Premier Alec Mannerheim
Republic of Sevaris

I cannot, in good conscience, sign this treaty. It seems too similar to the dreaded Versailles. However, I am amiable to negotiating with Kahta about the issue.

Premier Alec Mannerheim
Republic of Sevaris

Occ-
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Versailles was bad. But this is good. Just hurry up and sign my treaty so I can take credit for ending a war and claim the title of "Peacemaker."

OOC: He wont sign this treaty. I would actually be insulted to see this as a 'fair solution' if I were in his position.

OOC: As would I. This castrates his nation, leaving it essentially a colony of Kahta anyway. Then again, I get the feeling that that is the idea.

OOC: CM, This is not a good treaty. It basically limits my armed forces (although it's nowhere near as punitive as Versailles) so that I could not resist a Kahtan takeover.

OOC: CM, This is not a good treaty. It basically limits my armed forces (although it's nowhere near as punitive as Versailles) so that I could not resist a Kahtan takeover.



It's just for a temporary period. Besides, we're all agreeing to declare your sovereignty something will be guaranteed.

Occ- But a valuable lesson of history, never put your fate into the hands of others.

OOC: Which is precisely what I'm doing now. I will not allow you to dismember my nation, as the Allies did in 1918. My hope for peace is that neither of the two sides will benefit, that things will just be normalized again. (Save for Kahta promising to pull out of Caelta and pay me an indemnity (to be determined later) for the blockade.)

OOC: Which is precisely what I'm doing now. I will not allow you to dismember my nation, as the Allies did in 1918. My hope for peace is that neither of the two sides will benefit, that things will just be normalized again. (Save for Kahta promising to pull out of Caelta and pay me an indemnity (to be determined later) for the blockade.)


Well we need to make sure you cannot spark a war again so soon.

I will not spark a war if nations do not threaten me with annexation, or other things that would infringe upon our right to live as we choose. I had no intent of going to war with Kahta. He did this himself.

He shouldnt accept any war-guilt.

And his Armed forces should not be reduced, certainly not airforce.

Theres only one thing i could agree; 50% of Sevaris navy comes to a neutral nation (I'll be that nation if Sevaris wishes), so he cannot attack anyone. But if he's attacked he gets his navy back to protect him. Only for a certain period offcourse.

And if there's any rebuilding in Sevaris to be done, Sevaris will choose that nation.

He's been threatened and attacked several times now, dont you think he's had enough trouble?

We are not guilty of starting this war. We did not make the threats, Kahta did. That's another reason we will not sign this treaty- it holds us accountable for something that we did not do.

Also, I would like to suggest that it benefits your side greatly to go to the negotiating table. For, if YOU choose war, and, I mean YOU (Kahta and its backers) because I will not be the one to fire the first shot. You'll have had to violated my nation in some way. Anyway, If YOU choose war, buckets of blood and mountains of treasure will be spent on both sides- and this war could lead to the total, irreparable ruin of a major part of the world.

CM take all the total rubbish about yourself out of it and it might be some what palatable to anyone. You have no real interest other than your dubious hiring out of insanely huge numbers of mercenaries. Not that you were particualry nuetral anyway.

If anyone should be rebiulding Sevaris it would be his allies.

A basic a reasonably fair settlement would be alogn these lines.
both sides pay compensation for any deaths involved as any such will now be ruled accidental (note that this doesn't apply to mercenaries as they technically aren't anyone's citizens, it may be cruel but no one ever pays compensation to mercs).

A small redcution in Sevaris's power projection capability is made for the time being (its not as if you can't aid other members of alliances)

Any trade losses incurred by either side due to blockades will be covered by a joint fund created by the victoria allaince and the Commonwealth of Nations.

The Cealta matter reamins external to any agreement.

Raginsheep codemns a treaty which imposes such harsh restrictions on one side while nearly none on the other. In our opinion, both sides should be held equally responsible for the current state and that both sides should stand down at once, repatriations paid to all who have lost a relative, and that both Sevaris and Kahta military forces be banned from comming within 100nm of each other. If such an even happens, then both nations should foreit a yet to be determined penalty.

OOC: As would I. This castrates his nation, leaving it essentially a colony of Kahta anyway. Then again, I get the feeling that that is the idea.

OOC: QFT

Qft?

Quoted For Truth

Oh, ta :)

The Shah of Parthia recommends you sign the treaty before the Allied forces destroy Sevaris. I myself will also help protect Sevaris from agression if he agrees to this treaty.

(note that this doesn't apply to mercenaries as they technically aren't anyone's citizens, it may be cruel but no one ever pays compensation to mercs).
.


We allow, indeed we encourage, our citizens to join CM based PMCs (Private Military Corporations)


We also subsidize them, as they can be a valuable tool and they can fight proxy wars for CM.

You best not try that with me mate, else we'll be fighting a real war with them. :p

You best not try that with me mate, else we'll be fighting a real war with them. :p

If my mercenaries fire on you, I'd except you either:

1) Return Fire

2) Retreat

3) Rout

4) Surrender (But mercenaries don't really have the facilities to take you prisoner, so they'd probably just kill you all)

up

This is the first post from Sevaris in the whole Caeltan affair.

This is simply disgraceful. Killing 35,000 of what you claim are your own civilians INTENTIONALLY in war time is always an evil act. If the government of Katha does not cease these activities- we may have to intervene militarily. The situation is rapidly growing intolerable.

Defence Minister Paine
People's Republic of Sevaris


Caelta was already basically a puppet of Kahta before the invasion, we just took the further step and made it a colony. A similar situation would have been Germany taking control of italy in WWII.

CM, I'll respond to the whole treaty in a sec.

This is the first post from Sevaris in the whole Caeltan affair.




Caelta was already basically a puppet of Kahta before the invasion, we just took the further step and made it a colony. A similar situation would have been Germany taking control of italy in WWII.

CM, I'll respond to the whole treaty in a sec.


OOC: Dun accept this one, just to say...

IC:And in fact, Germany did take control of italy in 1943 or so, when the italians surrendured en masse to the americans. And it was a very smart move by the germans, who stopped any large advances through italy by the allies for the rest of the war.

Kahta would like to add a few provisions to the treaty.

23) Caelta will remain a colony of Kahta.

24) Kahta will allow local and regional elections to the control of Caelta in seperate regions.

25) Kahta will not engage in any offense actions against Sevaris for three real life weeks

26) Sevaris will abide by all the terms for six real life months. Any violations of this treaty by either side will require an immediate national leader change of the country in violation.

OOC: CM, can you go on MSN messenger right now?

OOC: CM, can you go on MSN messenger right now?


Get me on yahoo.