NationStates Jolt Archive

'Invisible' Tanks Roll Out

By James Kenjall, GNN Military Correspondent

July 26th, Amekhan - They can't bee seen by the human eye, but their presence can be detected by the increase of Ghetalion's Arms Manufacturing stock shares.

KriegMind Industries, the largest arms manufacturer in Ghetalion, was commissioned by Emperor Nathanial delVincent himself to develop modern armor that could not be seen. At first, CEO Ronald Krieg III could not believe what he was hearing.

“The Emperor’s request completely caught me off guard. I told him that I would research to his if his request could be brought to reality.” delVincent said in an interview with GNN.

Within the week, Krieg returned with a presentation on how an invisible tank would work and the Emperor gave Operation Phantom Horse the green light. “The development of the A-4i is a beautiful display of the merging between Ghetalion ingenuity and industriousness.” said Thalun Galundyne, Press Secretary for the Emperor.

The first field tests of the A-4i involved a seasoned platoon from Sembryl’s 4th Infantry. They were invited to participate in detect and destroy any armor they came across. Suddenly, blasts rang out of thin air and were followed by machine gun fire. The field test coordinator told the squad that their position was compromised and that they have suffered 100% casualties.

“We couldn’t believe it. The field co told us that our armored transports had been destroyed [in the exercise]” said Lt. Raymond Smith. “We couldn’t see the flash of the shell or from the machine gun… and we couldn’t see the tank! We thought it was artillery until the machine gun opened up on us. It’s like… a sniper tank!”

“But they still aren’t invisible to mines.” he jokingly added.

“Flash-suppressants are extensively used in conjunction with the total removal of tracers for the PKT 7.62mm machinegun and a reduction of air-friction coloration of the 125mm 2A46M-2 smoothbore rounds. Not only is the tank invisible, but you will not be able to see where it attacks from in the daytime.” Said Dr. Greg LaMauy, Head Engineer of Project Phantom Steed’s Armament Systems.

In addition to its invisibility, a slight modification to its 840-hp Diesel engine has greatly reduced the audible noise it makes when it is idle or when it moves from an idle state. “To maintain performance, we decided to let the engine make the necessary rotations to accommodate it during normal movement. A muffling of rotation and exhaust when the engine is in idle or when it starts up to move will continue to give the tank the required stealth to operate generally undetected.” Said John Teinko, Head Engineer of Project Phanton Steed’s Engine System.

Radar scrambling systems have also been installed on the A-4i. Radar scrambling will keep radar from knowing where the tank is exactly, but the action of scrambling an opponent’s radar will let it know someone is in the area.

“The tank was specifically designed to be invisible to human sensory. Invisibility greatly increases the ability of armor to be placed in a position for an extreme tactical advantage over an opponent.” Kreig said.

KriegMind has declined to say what makes the tanks invisible and deemed the technology classified under direct order of Emperor delVincent. KriegMind has offered the tank for a total of 300 million solaris each. As of today, only the very closest allies to Ghetalion have been authorized to purchase A-4i’s.

A-4i "Phantom Horse"

Description
Crew 3 (gunner, commander, driver)
Combat Weight (mt) 40.0
Chassis Length Overall (m) 6.5
Height Overall (m) 2.99
Width Overall (m) 3.4
Automotive Performance
Engine Type 840-hp Diesel
Cruising Range (km) 500/900 with external tanks
Speed (km/h)
Max Road 50
Max Off-Road 30
Average Cross-Country 20
Max Swim N/A
Fording Depths (m) 0.5
Radio R-173 and R-134

Protection
Armor, Turret Front (mm) 520/950 against HEAT
Applique Armor (mm) Side of hull over track skirt, turret top
Explosive Reactive Armor (mm) Kontakt or Kontakt-5 ERA
Mineclearing Equipment N/A
NBC Protection System Yes
Smoke Equipment Smoke grenade launchers (8x 81-mm left side of turret), and 32 grenades. Vehicle engine exhaust smoke system.

ARMAMENT
Main Armament
Caliber, Type, Name 125-mm smoothbore gun 2A46M
Rate of Fire (rd/min) 4-6/2 in manual mode
Loader Type Autoloader (separate loading) and manual
Ready/Stowed Rounds 22/23
Elevation (°) -6 to +14
Fire on Move Yes, up to 25 km/h. Depending on the road and distance to the target, most crews may halt before firing.
Auxiliary Weapon
Caliber, Type, Name 7.62-mm (7.62x 54R) Machinegun PKT
Mount Type Turret coax
Maximum Aimed Range (m) 2,000
Max Effective Range (m)
Day 1,000
Night 800
Fire on Move Yes
Rate of Fire (rd/min) 250 practical, 600 cyclic in 2-10 round bursts

Caliber, Type, Name 12.7-mm (12.7x108) AA MG NSVT
Mount Type Turret top
Maximum Aimed Range (m) 2,000
Max Effective Range (m)
Day 1,500/1,000 antiaircraft
Night N/A
Fire on Move Yes
Rate of Fire (rd/min) 200 practical, 600 cyclic in bursts
ATGM Launcher

Name 2A46M
Launch Method Gun-launched
Guidance SACLOS, Laser beam rider
Command Link Encoded infrared laser beam
Launcher Dismountable No

[b]FIRE CONTROL
FCS Name 1A40-1
Main Gun Stabilization 2E42-2, 2-plane
Rangefinder TPD-K1M laser rangefinder
Infrared Searchlight Yes
Sights w/Magnification

Gunner
Day TPD-K1, 8
Field of View (°) 9
Acquisition Range (m) 3,000 with LRF, 5,000 without
ATGM/Night 1K13-495 5.6x (8x ATGM)
Field of View (°) 6, 40 min (5 ATGM)
Acquisition Range (m) INA
Commander Fire Main Gun Yes

MAIN ARMAMENT AMMUNITION
125-mm APFSDS-T, BM-42M
Maximum Aimed Range (m) 3,000
Max Effective Range (m)
Day 2,000-3,000
Night 850-1,300
Armor Penetration (mm) 590-630 at 2,000 meters
125-mm Frag-HE-T, OF-26
Maximum Aimed Range (m) 5,000
Max Effective Range (m)
Day INA
Night 850-1,300
Armor Penetration (mm) INA

125-mm HEAT-MP, BK-29M
Maximum Aimed Range (m) 3,000
Max Effective Range (m)
Day INA
Night 850-1300
Armor Penetration (mm) 650-750
125-mm HEAT, BK-27
Maximum Aimed Range (m) 3,000
Max Effective Range (m)
Day INA
Night 850-1,300
Armor Penetration (mm) 700-800

Night Vision Yes
Thermal Vision 2nd Gen. FLIR

PHANTOM SYSTEMS
Classified

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=4612623&postcount=2

OOC:Even though that is a total godmod I appreciate the fact that you at least decently(if not bettter) rp'ed it.

OOC: This is not GodModding in the slightest. This is real technology.

Do I have to explain how this is real technology?

This is not GodModding in the slightest. This is real technology.

Do I have to explain how this is real technology?
Please do. but note that even if it is real, what's the use of an invisible tank? It still makes noise, shows up on radar and infrared, and will just end up getting shot up by its friends that can't see it.

OOC:And as you should read... THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A STEALTH TANK! A tank made out of the stealth materials used on ships and aircraft would mean it could be easily destroyed if detected(by other means).

Please do. but note that even if it is real, what's the use of an invisible tank? It still makes noise, shows up on radar and infrared, and will just end up getting shot up by its friends that can't see it.

OOC:

Fiber optic reciever/transmitters.

1.) You cover up the exposed side of each armor plate (and the muzzles) with threads of it.
2.) The fiber optic absorbs the light frequencies on one side.
3.) The fiber optic displays the same light frequencies on the other side.

This makes the tank invisible for up to ranges beyond 100 m. Anything closer will show a semi-pixulated glass diffraction effect that would confuse the uninitiated.

As stated, flash-suppressant and sound-dulling engines when they are idle or going form idle to movement allow the tank to have greatly reduced audibility. Future designs will make the tank more lightweight, thus, reducing the load to move, thus, reducing the noise made.

Radar scrambling jams the radar.

And if FLIR is being used, smoke will jam thermal readouts if it is that nessecary.

i tried to do the same thing and the same people said you can do that/ so why can he?

OOC: Because I just proved that they are real.

OOC:They would know that the jumbled position was where the tank is... then they would take a rocket launcher and...

OOC: Because I just proved that they are real.
OOC- That doesn't make them practical- there's no way to coordinate them effectively and not have them get shot at by friends who don't know they're there.

OOC: What jumbled position? The higher the resolution, the clearer the image. Fiber optic technology today can display up the equivilent of 1000 pixels per inch.

OOC:Then they would be able too see the tank!

OOC: You're kidding, right? 1028-bit crypted comm broad casts are far to simple. Again, the concept is "sniper tank" not "fleet of invisible armor". How many snipers rock a radio?

OOC:Then they would be able too see the tank!

OOC: Please explain how.

OOC:Well I am no expert on IR but if the resolution is high enough wouldnt they be able too see through the smoke? If not wouldnt the indication of there BEING smoke give it away?

OOC: Don't buy into the media hype. An RPG doesn't obliterate a tank at one shot. Most armor deflect RPG rounds instantly and that's when they can SEE where to hit it. 'Invisible' tanks would make it a hell of a lot hard to land a critical blow to a tank with a puny RPG or AT.

Just give up this fight i lost and so will you.

OOC:Well I am no expert on IR but if the resolution is high enough wouldnt they be able too see through the smoke? If not wouldnt the indication of there BEING smoke give it away?

OOC: IR doesn't use resolution and has nothing to do with the fiber optic resolution I stated. The M1A1 Abrams deploys smoke to screen Infrared.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm

"The standard smoke grenade contains a phosphors compound that masks thermal signature of the vehicle to the enemy."

Again, smoke grenades can be lauched quite a distance away and when the enemy doesn't know where the tank is, that can get very confusing. It makes for a great get away.

Just give up this fight i lost and so will you.

OOC: You lost the fight because you didn't do your research.

OOC:Excuse me but those are the RPG-7Vs. The RPG-29s(which are still in development) are able too take out a Abrams from the front! The Panerfaust 3' is capable of going through 1.6 metres of concrete! And lets not forget the C-90 which can fire 4 different warheads(including a bunker buster one)

i an not the same person as last night. i am the new owner. we are new now

OOC:Excuse me but those are the RPG-7Vs the RPG-29s(which are still in development) are able too take out a Abrams from the front! The Panerfaust 3' is capable of going through 1.6 metres of concrete! And lets not forget the C-90 which can fire 4 different warheads(including a bunker buster one)

OOC: It's the shape of the armor that deflects the RPGs. Unless you hit a plate perpendicular from the projectile direction, your not going to score significant damange. And when the thing is invisible... best roll the dice to find out where the perpendicular angle is... if you can figure out where it is at all.

The higher the resolution, the clearer the image.

OOC:Oh so now you say they dont... hmmm?

OOC:There are a number of factors that conclude whether the tank deflects the warhead or not... the shape is just ONE of them.

OOC: Regardless of the lack of explination by my obvious anagonists, I have proven this thing to be real, proven the technology within the grasp of our modern understanding, defeated all antagonist argument, and described how it would function and its flaws. Thus, it is a possible weapon and sales will begin at 300 million solaris each.

OOC: Regardless of the lack of explination by my obvious anagonists, I have proven this thing to be real, proven the technology within the grasp of our modern understanding, defeated all antagonist argument, and described how it would function and its flaws. Thus, it is a possible weapon and sales will begin at 300 million solaris each.

No, you didn't. Why will it be able to coordinate with others and not end up getting shot up by friends?

OOC:Oh so now you say they dont... hmmm?

OOC: What the hell... learning to read is an important step to communication on the internet. I'd recommend reading arguments before knee-jerk snapping to them and throwing GodMod around like some college whore.

OOC: :sighs: I need someone with really good experience about this in here. My main expertise is in the nuclear warfare area. I read... and in your 4th post I clearly saw the word RESOLUTION!

No, you didn't. Why will it be able to coordinate with others and not end up getting shot up by enemies?

OOC: The tank is invisible, not automatically impossible ot shoot at. Can a commander communicate with a snipers, yes or no? Can a commander communicate with a stealth bomber, yes or no? Obviously it's called 1028-bit encryption. (And probably higher for military bandwidth)

OOC: The tank is invisible, not automatically impossible ot shoot at. Do snipers use radio, yes or no?

I meant friends. How will you avoid the tank getting shot up by friends nearby who can't see it? How will a pair of tanks avoid hitting eachother?

OOC: :sighs: I need someone with really good experience about this in here. My main expertise is in the nuclear warfare area. I read... and in your 4th post I clearly saw the word RESOLUTION!

OOC: The word resolution was inferring to the number of fiber optic transmitters per inch. It had nothing to do with IR.

I meant friends. How will you avoid the tank getting shot up by friends nearby who can't see it? How will a pair of tanks avoid hitting eachother?

OOC: Can stealth fighter/bombers communicate with forces on the ground, yes or no?

OOC: Can stealth fighter/bombers communicate with forces on the ground, yes or no?

False Analogy. If you have a pair of tanks, how do they avoid shooting eachother? If you have troops near the tank, what stops them from accidentally hitting the tank while firing, thinking they have a clean shot?

OOC:Oh... hmm I am still not sure how this thing would work... I am no sience expert... just a 14 year old who has read alot on nuclear warfare... I might as well let some poeple with more "know-how" take up the argument.

False Analogy. If you have a pair of tanks, how do they avoid shooting eachother? If you have troops near the tank, what stops them from accidentally hitting the tank while firing, thinking they have a clean shot?

True analogy. Bombers are bombing forces on the ground. How do they not hit the friendlies? (most of the time?) COMMUNICIATION!!! In massive tank battles, causes of friendly fire were not from "accidental" hits but from being unable to determine if the target was an enemy of an ally.

Two invisible tanks hitting each other is equivilent to two snipers in the same area hitting each other. It is an event not even worth considering.

And if you think this technology is bad, wait until I unveil my quantum computer that breaks RSS encrpytion in 28 minutes! Muahahaha sci-fi technology is bitch-made compared to whats really happening!

So, basically, you have a tank... that needs smoke bombs to function, and stealth shapes. And it needs to be communicating so that somebody else doesn't shoot it...

Why not just buy a regular tank for much less and shoot the enemy the old fashioned way?

False analogy. Snipers are smaller and generally operate alone. Tanks, if you have noticed, are large and often are used with more than 1 at a time.

OOC:Oh! I see! Your future tech! Well glad I wont be RPing with you(I am modern)

Two invisible tanks hitting each other is equivilent to two snipers in the same area hitting each other. It is an event not even worth considering.

Not quite the same. In the book about the marine sniper Carlos Hatchcock, 93 confirmed kills, there is a very interesting confrontation about 2 snipers facing each other. As to 2 snipers from the same force hitting each other... snipers will not fire at a target they cant identify. If you cant see the tank.. you cant identify it... you could easily accidentily shoot it, friendly fire or hostile fire.

Now, as to your sniper tank... at 40 metric tons, it would cause quite a localised seismic disturbance and could easily be detected by that means. And if the tank were to cause any major threat, there is always carpet bombing, with or without a smoke screen ;)

Sorry, but certain parts couldn't be cloaked, the view ports, the inner surfaces of the gun barrel, and most notably the treads, because there is no way to put fiberoptics in a place that would be subject to constant wear, or need to be transparant. And lets not forget the problem of dirt and dust sticking to the tank.

So, basically, you have a tank...

Yes

that needs smoke bombs to function

Wrong.

, and stealth shapes.

Wrong.

And it needs to be communicating so that somebody else doesn't shoot it...

Wrong.

Why not just buy a regular tank for much less and shoot the enemy the old fashioned way?

The only thing your inaccurate scenario proves is your inability to read and your inability to contain imagination. Your "why's" does not disprove the reality of this device.

False analogy. Snipers are smaller and generally operate alone. Tanks, if you have noticed, are large and often are used with more than 1 at a time.

Again, you lack the creative conceptualization to understand how an invisible tank would be deployed. I can see your enemies crushing your inflexible mind with relative ease.

OOC:Oh! I see! Your future tech! Well glad I wont be RPing with you(I am modern)

No, I'm modern tech.

Your still cold war tech.

oh yea, forgot to add one more thing..

dust plumes

OOC:NOPE! I have more people than the US and a economy as good(if not better) as it. There is no chance in hell I am Cold War tech.

Yes



Wrong.



Wrong.



Wrong.



The only thing your inaccurate scenario proves is your inability to read and your inability to contain imagination. Your "why's" does not disprove the reality of this device.



Again, you lack the creative conceptualization to understand how an invisible tank would be deployed. I can see your enemies crushing your inflexible mind with relative ease.

Without smoke bombs, communication, and stealth shapes, it easily shows up on IR, gets shot by friendlies, or shows up on radar.

The reality of this device is that it exists, but it is patently useless due to the complications of being invisible.

You lack the ability to see a flaw in your own designs.

Not quite the same. In the book about the marine sniper Carlos Hatchcock, 93 confirmed kills, there is a very interesting confrontation about 2 snipers facing each other. As to 2 snipers from the same force hitting each other... snipers will not fire at a target they cant identify. If you cant see the tank.. you cant identify it... you could easily accidentily shoot it, friendly fire or hostile fire.

I'm very sure snipers that are deployed in the same area can't communicate and have been known to get in matches with each other because they can't communicate.

Doesn't mean they shut down sniper training.

Now, as to your sniper tank... at 40 metric tons, it would cause quite a localised seismic disturbance and could easily be detected by that means.

Good thing it has a 2,000 m range so that those seismic disturbances have time to disappate. Do you people really think you have to be 10 meters away from your target to be effective with a tank anymore? This isn't WW1!

And if the tank were to cause any major threat, there is always carpet bombing, with or without a smoke screen ;)

Oh, I see... so since carpet bombing can kill the A-4i, then the A-4i cannot technolgocially exist.

Carpet bombing killed the Vietnamese and they still put up a good fight!

Whenever someone proves that this tank can't exist technologically with modern means, I'll RP that a defect was found in the fiber optic mechanisms.

BUT UNTIL THEN, 300 MILLION SOLARIS EACH! Buy up!

Sorry, but certain parts couldn't be cloaked, the view ports, the inner surfaces of the gun barrel, and most notably the treads, because there is no way to put fiberoptics in a place that would be subject to constant wear, or need to be transparant. And lets not forget the problem of dirt and dust sticking to the tank.

Ditto.

Without smoke bombs, communication, and stealth shapes, it easily shows up on IR, gets shot by friendlies, or shows up on radar.

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Could you read that?

Did you read the part about how smoke grenades deflect heat signatures?

Or how about how the title of the thread is 'Invisible' Tanks Roll Out? With the intentional 'Invisible'?

And what the fuck is Stealth Shapes? I've already described the Fiber Optic System without flaw.

How about the radar scrambling technology that has existed since... the 1950s?

I mean, reading is a valuable tool.

The Stealth Bomber gives off thermal traces, but THAT is still considered invisible.

CAN ANY ONE OF YOU PLEASE DISPROVE THIS THING FROM TECHNOLGOCIALLY EXISTING?

Just one.

That's allllll I want.

Fiberoptics dont transfer light perfectly, so you'd see the dim shape of a tank, it would look like a 3d shadow.

Sorry, but certain parts couldn't be cloaked, the view ports

If you can see a tanks view port at 2,000 meters (a transparent piece of polyethonal about 1.5 ft by .3 ft), you deserve a medal.

the inner surfaces of the gun barrel

If you can see the "inner surfaces" of a gun barrel, then it's already too late.

and most notably the treads, because there is no way to put fiberoptics in a place that would be subject to constant wear, or need to be transparant. And lets not forget the problem of dirt and dust sticking to the tank.

Putting plates over the treads is not hard. As per this design:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/cavatd-001_s.jpg

All you folks are doing is trying to poke holes at this (and failing every step of the way) None of you are going for the jugular because THIS DESIGN IS TECHNOLOGICALLY FEASIBLE! ACCEPT IT, PEONS!

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Could you read that?

Did you read the part about how smoke grenades deflect heat signatures?

Or how about how the title of the thread is 'Invisible' Tanks Roll Out? With the intentional 'Invisible'?

And what the fuck is Stealth Shapes? I've already described the Fiber Optic System without flaw.

How about the radar scrambling technology that has existed since... the 1950s?

I mean, reading is a valuable tool.

The Stealth Bomber gives off thermal traces, but THAT is still considered invisible.

CAN ANY ONE OF YOU PLEASE DISPROVE THIS THING FROM TECHNOLGOCIALLY EXISTING?

Just one.

That's allllll I want.

Ad Hominem.

It could exist technologically. What I am saying is that your tank is not practical.

Smoke grenades deflect heat. Your tank needs smoke grenades to effectively function. How nice of a logistical problem, since you have to keep detonating smoke grenades to keep it off IR.

Your tank gives off much more heat than a stealth bomber, false analogy.

Radar is not useless, your tank must either mount radar-scrambling devices powerful enough to foil most radars (I wonder why we use Radar nowadays if it can be scrambled by a box big enough to attach to a tank?).

Fiberoptics dont transfer light perfectly, so you'd see the dim shape of a tank, it would look like a 3d shadow.

1.) There is no transfering of light.
2.) Fiber optic sensors can react to light frequency in our visible spectrum flawlessly.
3.) Fiber optic transmitters can reproduce and transmit light of any frequencies in our visible spectrum flawlessly.

2.) The fiber optic absorbs the light frequencies on one side.
3.) The fiber optic displays the same light frequencies on the other side.

Sounds to me like your transferring light, even if you aren't fiberoptics don't absorb light perfectly. And since you can't transmit and recieve on the same line of fiberoptics you would only be half invisible(and don't argue that, you would need a sensor at the end of each wire to detect the light, and a projector to broadcast the image from the other side, and you can't have both).

Ad Hominem.

It could exist technologically. What I am saying is that your tank is not practical.

Of course it isn't practical to a person whose repeated posts have proven his stuggle with dimensia.

Smoke grenades deflect heat. Your tank needs smoke grenades to effectively function. How nice of a logistical problem, since you have to keep detonating smoke grenades to keep it off IR.

Your tank gives off much more heat than a stealth bomber, false analogy.

Again, your dimensia is of unlimited proportions. Your average soldier or armored transport does not have IR capability. Not even your average tank has IR capabilities capability. Not even your average helicopter or A10 anti-tank plane has it. Thus, the value of an invisible tank is very helpful.

This is the A-10 Thunderbolt.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/a-10.htm

You show me where it has IR detection.

Radar is not useless, your tank must either mount radar-scrambling devices powerful enough to foil radar (I wonder why we use Radar nowadays if it can be scrambled by a box big enough to attach to a tank?).

Please tell me what any of that had to do with any of my posts?

Sounds to me like your transferring light, even if you aren't fiberoptics don't absorb light perfectly. And since you can't transmit and recieve on the same line of fiberoptics you would only be half invisible(and don't argue that, you would need a sensor at the end of each wire to detect the light, and a projector to broadcast the image from the other side, and you can't have both).

Sounds to me like you can't read.

1.) You cover up the exposed side of each armor plate (and the muzzles) with threads of it.
2.) The fiber optic absorbs the light frequencies on one side.
3.) The fiber optic displays the same light frequencies on the other side.

There this invention.. you're looking into it now.. it's called... a monitor... and some of them are called LCDs... and there's this thing called a computer attached to it... you know.. it's amazing technology how it sends electrons on a lattice to specific points on a grid to display a certain color... its really amazing... really. Fiber optic sensor/transmission is simple. You place the sensor behind the transmitter just slighty and guess what? Colors don't bleed because LIGHT ISN'T A WAVE THAT PHASES OUT!

the M1a2, an average tank by NS standards includes a commander's independent thermal viewer and the gun sight is IR as well.

Yay for Ad Hominem!

It's Dementia, by the way.

Your tank is "invisible". For it to be useful, it has to be invisible to some non-optical methods. Otherwise it's just going to fool some enemy soldiers, and I'm sure an Anti-Infantry Tank is a high priority.

M1A2 tanks have IR.

The T72/T60/M60 is a standard tank. The M1A2 is extremely new and only owned by one nation in the world.

So, the chances of an A-4i meeting a M1A2.... well... I'd say it's pretty slim.

The T72/T60/M60 is a standard tank. The M1A2 is extremely new and only owned by one nation in the world.

So, the chances of an A-4i meeting a M1A2.... well... I'd say it's pretty slim.

NS Standard Tank is the M1A2. Pretty much any nation you go to war with will have M1A2 tanks. [We're a bit ahead of the ball for military if you didn't know. Same with how I have CVN-77 carriers.]

Yay for Ad Hominem!

Yay for illiteracy!

Your tank is "invisible". For it to be useful, it has to be invisible to some non-optical methods. Otherwise it's just going to fool some enemy soldiers, and I'm sure an Anti-Infantry Tank is a high priority.

Umm.. it jams radar... and the chances of anything having IR these days is slim... so.... I fall to see the issue.

M1A2 tanks have IR.

Read above about the M1A2.

Yay for illiteracy!



Umm.. it jams radar... and the chances of anything having IR these days is slim... so.... I fall to see the issue.



Read above about the M1A2.

Yay for Ad Hominem! Make an argument without defaulting to name-calling! It shows how weak your position is!

IR is on the M1A2 tank. Most NS Nations use the M1A2.

You place the sensor behind the transmitter just slighty and guess what?

I guess you think the transmitter is just going to be some magic machine that puts light into the cable without blocking light from outside with itself, you know, just like a monitor, which you can look right through from behind.

the inner surfaces of the gun barrel



If you can see the "inner surfaces" of a gun barrel, then it's already too late.
Not if you are out of range or are you going to tell me that if the tanks shoot the shell could travel around the Globe and hit the same Tank in the arse if they wanted to?



blah blah blah. Keep thinking it is unbeatable you'll recieve an unpleasnt surprise. Admit it, someone will build a weapon to destroy that puny tank, it wont be in the "top" for ever. And even without the spessifically designed weapons, it can and will be detected and destroyed one way or another, you like it or not. EVERY DESING HAS FLAW, NOTHING IS UNBEATABLE(except for falling H-Bomb) so live with it kid.


P.S: Would you mind turning down the volume of your ego, is getting a bit annoying. :D
You said something how well the Vietcom did even with the carpet bombing but I think I should remind you that the vietcom didnt have too many tank, it was more a guerrilla and you cant carpet bomb them, but a tank thats a different story.

Oh well, I'm sure the noise from the engine + treads and the dust trail when it moves will give it away easily enough. Unless it's a silenced anti-gravity tank....

NS Standard Tank is the M1A2. Pretty much any nation you go to war with will have M1A2 tanks. [We're a bit ahead of the ball for military if you didn't know. Same with how I have CVN-77 carriers.]

According to this article, there seems to be issues with the CITV of the M1A2:

The CITV needs a daylight channel to maximize its effectiveness.

It appears that the infrared... doesn't work in the daytime! How convienient.. since the A-4i invisibility exploits this daytime inability by being visually... invisible!

I guess you think the transmitter is just going to be some magic machine that puts light into the cable without blocking light from outside with itself, you know, just like a monitor, which you can look right through from behind.

It's obvious the idea of photons being individual particles has escaped you.

Please, go learn quantum physics, specifically the wave-particle duality part of it, then come back here and read the stupidity of your statement.

Not if you are out of range or are you going to tell me that if the tanks shoot the shell could travel around the Globe and hit the same Tank in the arse if they wanted to?

If you can see the inside of a barrell from the other side of the globe, you are a military asset by yourself!

Your emotional tanget is easily demoted to illiterate kintergarden babble because you haven't provided a single fact proving how this technology is impossible.

Could you mind toning down your stupidity?

Oh well, I'm sure the noise from the engine + treads and the dust trail when it moves will give it away easily enough. Unless it's a silenced anti-gravity tank....

Reading helps.

Please, for the love of God, reading helps.

I've already discussed these issues. Why can't people read? THIS IS A TEXTED-BASED MEDIUM! I would hate to see you people play MUDs.

Its not about quantum physics, its about simple engineering.

You need some sort of projection device to project light outwards. You also need some sort of sensor to detect light. How do these two devices exist at the same time inside eachother?

Your fiberoptic cable will look like this:

Transmitter------>-----outside

or

Reciever--------<------outside

because

Reciever-->-transmitter---------<----------outside

means the reciever is in the transmitter's shadow, or vice versa.

(ooc: also, this is indeed a texted-based medium, calm down and type, you don't need to shout at your poor transparant magical monitor)

OOC: Very good job, kudos and all, but it's not viable.
OOC:

Fiber optic reciever/transmitters.

1.) You cover up the exposed side of each armor plate (and the muzzles) with threads of it.
2.) The fiber optic absorbs the light frequencies on one side.
3.) The fiber optic displays the same light frequencies on the other side.

Then where do you put your tank? This plan requires that fiberoptic arrays be fitted to five of the six (viewing the tank as a box) 3d directions that the tank might be viewed from...the only problem is that the image taken in must be as big as the image put out...which means that to transmit light as claimed, one has to just have stacks of fiberoptic strands...and they can't cross or be woven together since that would just make a huge mount on top of the tank that appears to be silvery or glassy *but which is visible.*

This makes the tank invisible for up to ranges beyond 100 m. Anything closer will show a semi-pixulated glass diffraction effect that would confuse the uninitiated.
Unlikely, see above. There are means of making/using 'active camoflague' arrays to make the tanks difficult to see at long ranges (such as are used by ATGM crews and other tanks to spot and engage tanks with impunity) but the fiber-optics scheme (which I've heard many times before) is not practicable. In any case, the bore of the tank and any external weapons (such as MGs, gas canisters, smoke canisters) cannot be equipped with such systems.

As stated, flash-suppressant and sound-dulling engines when they are idle or going form idle to movement allow the tank to have greatly reduced audibility.
But not silence. Tanks are inherently large, heavy, and noisy things...that mostly depend on the range of their guns and the skill of their fellow forces (dismounted soldiers, artillery, CAS, air support, etc.) to defend against hostiles.

Radar scrambling jams the radar.
This is only so effective...and usually requires a dedicated EW/ECM officer to operate the system...maybe a radar-baffling armor design could help, but radar isn't usually used by fellow ground forces...more of an airplane thing, or specifically a JSTARS thing since other aircraft usually don't bother with radar.

And if FLIR is being used, smoke will jam thermal readouts if it is that nessecary.
Smoke will not properly defend a tank against FLIR (it works for visual, but FLIR sees right through it) and, to be even marginally effective, would have to be put out at all times...which demolishes any visual stealth aspects gained in other systems. A better system might be heat-suppressors that cool exhaust and then emit it at a low level (like underneath the tank) where IR sensors from far away are unlikely to spot it...but even this will have problems as FLIR can see the difference in temperature between the metal or whatever the covering material is and the background...if it's all in the sun then the surface will be hot while the surroundings may be somewhat cooler (say in the early afternoon or even night) or in the early morning (or late night) the tank may be colder than the surroundings.

IR and FLIR /do/ work during the day, although often a visual representation may improve the ability of a gunner to find targets (such as buildings, which are easily seen with the naked eye)...NVDs that work based on enhancing latent light don't work because there's too much light...when it's light outside!

Reading helps.

Please, for the love of God, reading helps.

I've already discussed these issues. Why can't people read? THIS IS A TEXTED-BASED MEDIUM! I would hate to see you people play MUDs.

Yes, I read your little thread. So let me get this straight:

You've made a tank that's totally invisible, nearly silent, you can't see where it fires, can't hear where it fires, can't see the exhaust, and has no exploitable weakness.


Have fun with your tanks, because I'll just do what 90% of NS is about to do and simply ignore it. Having anything that can't be beaten is poor RP and no fun to play against.

Its not about quantum physics, its about simple engineering.

You need some sort of projection device to project light outwards. You also need some sort of sensor to detect light. How do these two devices exist at the same time inside eachother?

--a
--b

A = receiver
B = Transmitter

Notice the Transmitter is father are at the EQUAL LENGTH but run parallel.

Newtonian light as waves has been disproven. Lights operate as waves AND particles, thus, when a photon hits B, it is generated at an A on the opposite side of the tank.

Very simple technology.

My invisible tank is this close to firing its IGNORE cannon...

So I win, you have indeed made a half-visible tank.

Lets look at the skin of the tank:

ABABABABABABABA
ABABABABABABABA
ABABABABABABABA
ABABABABABABABA
ABABABABABABABA

Where B is invisible.

Then where do you put your tank? This plan requires that fiberoptic arrays be fitted to five of the six (viewing the tank as a box) 3d directions that the tank might be viewed from...the only problem is that the image taken in must be as big as the image put out...which means that to transmit light as claimed, one has to just have stacks of fiberoptic strands...and they can't cross or be woven together since that would just make a huge mount on top of the tank that appears to be silvery or glassy *but which is visible.*

There is no image taken. Photon interaction is all that is required. This isn't a camera. This is physics. Since imaging is controlled from a computer, image bearing can easily be manipulated as well so show the desired side the illusion of invisibility.

Unlikely, see above. There are means of making/using 'active camoflague' arrays to make the tanks difficult to see at long ranges (such as are used by ATGM crews and other tanks to spot and engage tanks with impunity) but the fiber-optics scheme (which I've heard many times before) is not practicable. In any case, the bore of the tank and any external weapons (such as MGs, gas canisters, smoke canisters) cannot be equipped with such systems.

Your see above post has been obliterated because you didn't understand the basic principles. As already mention, if you can see the inside of the tank barrell, it is already too late. Canister launches can easily be capped with fiber optics.

But not silence. Tanks are inherently large, heavy, and noisy things...that mostly depend on the range of their guns and the skill of their fellow forces (dismounted soldiers, artillery, CAS, air support, etc.) to defend against hostiles.

I've already discussed the sound-damping from being idle and the acceleration from idle. I've already discussed there is no noise reduction upon normal movement because that would just blow the engine.

This is only so effective...and usually requires a dedicated EW/ECM officer to operate the system...maybe a radar-baffling armor design could help, but radar isn't usually used by fellow ground forces...more of an airplane thing, or specifically a JSTARS thing since other aircraft usually don't bother with radar.

Radar Jamming is automatic these days. The AN/ALQ-162, for example, can automatically detect and jam continuous wave radar instantly. It's a $30,000 box. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-alq-162.htm

Smoke will not properly defend a tank against FLIR (it works for visual, but FLIR sees right through it) and, to be even marginally effective, would have to be put out at all times...which demolishes any visual stealth aspects gained in other systems. A better system might be heat-suppressors that cool exhaust and then emit it at a low level (like underneath the tank) where IR sensors from far away are unlikely to spot it...but even this will have problems as FLIR can see the difference in temperature between the metal or whatever the covering material is and the background...if it's all in the sun then the surface will be hot while the surroundings may be somewhat cooler (say in the early afternoon or even night) or in the early morning (or late night) the tank may be colder than the surroundings.

IR and FLIR /do/ work during the day, although often a visual representation may improve the ability of a gunner to find targets (such as buildings, which are easily seen with the naked eye)...NVDs that work based on enhancing latent light don't work because there's too much light...when it's light outside!

Smoke does deter.. as already mentioned:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm

"The standard smoke grenade contains a phosphors compound that masks thermal signature of the vehicle to the enemy."

And according to this document:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/1m1a2one.pdf

The CITV needs a daylight channel to maximize its effectiveness.

I love how everyone focuses on the IR argument... but forgets that IR DOESN'T WORK DURING THE DAY! Which makes being invisible... fun.

So I win, you have indeed made a half-visible tank.

Lets look at the skin of the tank:

ABABABABABABABA
ABABABABABABABA
ABABABABABABABA
ABABABABABABABA
ABABABABABABABA

Where B is invisible.

Again, you are an imbecile.

I highly suggest learning quantum physics before attempting this argument.

Wave-Particle Duality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave-particle_duality)
Light Diffraction via the Double-Slit experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment)

Read up, then go home.

My invisible tank is this close to firing its IGNORE cannon...

The moment someone can prove that this tank is not invisible via the technology I have suggested, please, you let me know.

300 million solaris each! Buy them now and invade your neighbors!

I see no real reason why this wouldn't work.

And even if it only made the tank partially invisible, that would still make it a lot less visible than a normal tank and thus harder to detect and lock onto.

Axis Nova