NationStates Jolt Archive

Space Based Lasers

The Kingdom of Cullenus expanding its market has created an orbital laser capable of attacking ground targets. The SBL is powered by solar panels. Any nation with a simple space program or allied to a nation with a space program is encouraged to purchase some SBL's to assist in attack/defense operations.

Basic SBL (containing only laser)....... 2,500,000,000 dollars
-addition- stealth technology.............. 600,000,000 dollars
-addition- extra armor plating (defense)... 5,000,000 dollars
-addition- mountable spy camera............ 3,000,000 dollars
-addition- infrared abilities..................... 1,500,000 dollars


-- Do your OWN math --

Image: http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v334/MatthewCH/NationStates/SBL.jpg

bump

bump.... cmon people... protect yourselves with these lasers.

Axis Nova regrets to inform you that any of these satellites that pass over it's territory will be shot down.

Axis Nova

I seriously doubt that your nation has enough money in to build more than one of these a year.

The Kingdom of Cullenus should not be held responsible for the actions other nations use with our technology. So shoot them down as you wish. Cullenus plays no part in the use of our SBL's.

Also, Cullenian engineers have been working on stealth technology for our SBL's. Currentley we have a prototype in geosynch orbit above Cullenus. As of yet we have not found any basic existing methods of fully detecting the SBL with the new stealth technology other than visually through a telescope. The SBL comes in extremely unclearly on our scanners... and that is with the signiture code.

The new stealth technology has been added to our invetory lists. However costly it may be.

The Kingdom of Cullenus inflates the price considerably for export. The actual cost to construct an SBL using our confidential plans is much cheaper.

Also Cullenus has struck a deal with ITD bringing in 7.5 million dollars a month. This in addition to our aircraft and retail industries provides enough money to construct the SBL with little problems.

Also our strict governing style allows for allows for quicker economic growth. AKA our citizens are brainwashed to support the economy with no fuss. They pay 39% tax without trouble.

bump

There is no way you're gonna have a laser powerful enough to go from orbit to the ground. The large air based lasers the military is making would only be able to engage light ground vehicles at less than 30-40 miles. There is no way this thing will be able to engage ground targets, if there was any point in using a laser against ground targets.

Also, your 'stealth satellite' could easily be detected by things like LIDAR, or use of radio astronomy systems to see which stars' signals are blocked out by the satellite's passing.

To engage hit things on the ground or near the ground, (Not necesarily enough power to destroy tanks or ships, and remember a laser would just carve a hole the size of it's barrel in the target, not make it explode.), you would need far more than solar power. Some kind of large, space station sized MHD or nuclear fission or fusion reactor would be needed.

The People's Republic of Veskaland would like to inform you that we will destroy any piece of rubbish in orbit of Earth as stated in the Planitary Defence Network of Veskaland charter:
Any piece of technology detected in orbit of Earth that could pose a threat to the country must be destroyed and the offending government punished.
So at 13:00 hrs tomorrow, the USS Violator will destroy the satalite in orbit.
You have been warned.

OOC: Just FYI, space is not owned by any nation, even the one below it. Therefore anyone who shoots down these satellites has committed an act of war and the other nation is fully entitled tostrike back to defend itself.

Do you honestly think that The Kingdom of Cullenus is going to reveal its secrets on how the SBL works? Solar power is for communication purposes. And yes it can be detected by some means, not avialable to the less developed nations however.

The prototype currently in geosynch orbit is just that a prototype, not to be used. It is for testing purposes. However if shot down, Cullenus will consider it an act of war.




[occ: and yes actually the US military has currently developed workable lasers capable of exploding missles in air (tested and worked)... I however advanced the technology slightly to fit the needs in NS.]

Erm, missiles explode because the fuel is burning. The laser the US military is developing melts the metal on the outside exposing the solid fuel propellant. but it dosen't blow them up, the missile blows itself up

And if the solar power is only for communication equipment, your first post is quite misleading.

I'll take 5 space based lasers with all upgrades. Should total to $19,507,500,000. Money will be wired upon confirmation.

Do you honestly think that The Kingdom of Cullenus is going to reveal its secrets on how the SBL works? Solar power is for communication purposes. And yes it can be detected by some means, not avialable to the less developed nations however.

The prototype currently in geosynch orbit is just that a prototype, not to be used. It is for testing purposes. However if shot down, Cullenus will consider it an act of war.




[occ: and yes actually the US military has currently developed workable lasers capable of exploding missles in air (tested and worked)... I however advanced the technology slightly to fit the needs in NS.]
OOC: I know that. Didn't you see the part about the airborne lasers that needed an entire 747 just do destroy unarmored ground vehicles at less than 40mi? Let's elaborate here.

Laser needed to kill ground targets from air: Size of 747, not the most effecienct power source though
Laser needed to kill light ground targets from space: Extremely large power source, most likely one that would require a space station with technicians to maintain it.

Just because it's classified doens't make it work. Either you explain OOCly how it works, concede that it would not be able to destroy ground targets, or you get ignored.

Ruthless slaughter... order confirmed. Estimated delivary time for final SBL is 2 years.

I will buy 5 fully upgraded laser systems.
---$15,547,500,000 wired on confirmation---

____________________________________________________
OOC: How the laser works....

The SBL is a type of chemical laser that involves the mixing of chemicals inside the weapon to create a laser beam. Three different workable chemicals: hydrogen fluoride (HF), deuterium fluoride (DF) and chemical oxygen iodine (COIL). COIL is the type in my SBL.

1___The hydrogen fluoride laser system can be compared to the way a rocket engine works. Atomic fluorine reacts with molecular hydrogen to produce excited hydrogen fluoride molecules. This reaction creates a wavelength between 2.7 and 2.9 microns. At that wavelength, the hydrogen fluoride laser beam would be soaked up by the Earth's atmosphere, meaning that it is most likely to be used in space-to-space combat as part of the Space-Based Laser program.

2__Another laser, similar to the hydrogen fluoride system, is the deuterium fluoride laser system. Instead of using molecular hydrogen, deuterium is used to react with atomic fluoride. Because deuterium atoms have more mass than hydrogen atoms, this laser has a longer wavelength, about 3.5 microns, and can transmit better through the atmosphere. (Ex. used in tests to shoot down a rocket at the White Sands Missile Range in 1996.)

3_The third type of chemical laser (and the one used in my SBL) is the chemical oxygen iodine laser (COIL). In this laser system, a reaction generated between chlorine and hydrogen peroxide excites oxygen atoms, which transfer their energy to iodine atoms. This transfer of energy causes the iodine atoms to become excited, creating a laser with a wavelength of about 1.3 microns, smaller than either of the two previously mentioned lasers. This smaller wavelength means that smaller optics could be used to develop a space-based lasing system. As I have.

reminder, this is ooc... you can not steal my plans!!
___________________________________________________

Enodscopia... order confirmed. Estimated delivary time for final SBL is 2 years.
Thanks for your business

OOC: Hah! I've had lasers for over a year! Besides, anyone can. You didn't invent the Deuterium laser, or Coils, or Liquid Lasers, or any type that has been invented in RL.

I know how they work, I want you to explain the power source, how your laser somehow has greater range and efficiency than the ABL COIL that needs an entire 747 for power, but can fit in a satellite.

EDIT: Perhaps you don't understand what an SBL is. It is a laser for engaging targets in space, not in the atmosphere, such as ICBMs and satellites. It could, with a large amount of power (As in power source) engage targets in the atmosphere. However, there is not one single laser in design that can engage ground targets at the ranges you are talking about (Geosynchronous orbit), which is tens of thousands of miles above the earth. The COIL on the 747, which has much more power availible than the satellite, cannot engage ground targets at ranges beyond a few dozen miles, and even then they're small targets. In fact, there is no point to creating a laser that can engage ground targets, because unless the building is highly flammable, they will just make a hole a few cms wide.

You said in your post that it was solar powered, which is not as much power as the 747 ABL has on board. So what I'm asking is, if you are not using Solar power as you have stated for the laser, then what power source is powering the laser, which by logic would be more powerful than the near 747 sized system used in modern COIL for a shorter range.

OOC: lol, i guess you didnt notice that demensions were NOT included in the plans i posted... how do you know the size of it... for all you know it could be the size of five 747's! Constructed in many parts... then self-assemlbed when delivered to space via shuttle.

OOC: Because then it would be a space station. Maybe larger than the ISS.

Also, the ISS is costing billions. This would cost even more, as the ISS does not need a huge COIL.

The People's Republic of Veskaland would like to inform you that we will destroy any piece of rubbish in orbit of Earth as stated in the Planitary Defence Network of Veskaland charter:

So at 13:00 hrs tomorrow, the USS Violator will destroy the satalite in orbit.
You have been warned.

-OOC-

Then you would have hated the Phalanx, a system made by Mekanta and Central Facehuggeria back when they were both modern tech.

It had the capacity to wipe out a city from orbit with it's Megagun series Railguns.


But back onto commenting... Railguns are a much better way to go for orbital weapons. If you can get a shell to survive reentry reletively intact, and get it to hit hard enough, you'll have an instant asteroid impact.

Well, never mind.

This entire conversation is null.

There is no way a nation 40 times smaller than the USA, with a Fair economy can afford any type of space program or laser system period.

(for reference, here is an example from a NS budget calculator. Keep in mind, the US is the only nation with a COIL system that could be used in combat, or one capable of deploying it to space. They have a GDP of 16 Trillion.)
http://thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?nation=cullenus

Even if you don't accept that, you must accept that you're hundreds, maybe even thousands of times poorer than the US.

Thank you Neo-Makanta for the suggestion. This will be brought to the council within the Kingdom of Cullenus and will be discussed for future developments.

How are you going to afford any of this?

I hate to spoil your fun, but you should work on getting your economy up to Very Strong, Thriving, or whatever, and wait until you're larger.

You'll be ignored by most nations for being so small and poor, yet having all these advanced weapons.

To reinforce what NE is trying to say. To create a COIL laser capable of penetrating the atmosphere and doing a large amount of damage, you would need a rather large fuel supply for the laser, but this could only be used once without refueling. A SBL that can fire multiple times into the atmosphere would be gigantic. You probably couldn't send up the whole thing in one launch. And if you were to use multiple launches each one would cost billions of dollars. Looking at your profile in the GDP calc, you have a government budget of about 12.25 billion. With an economy like that how could you spend billions on a space program and research into space based lasers? Wouldn't that leave you a little bankrupt? Well you could have cut half the funding for all other governmet subsidies (including all those important things like your administation, courts, and military), but that would leave your nation quite weak now wouldn't it?

OOC: Just FYI, space is not owned by any nation, even the one below it. Therefore anyone who shoots down these satellites has committed an act of war and the other nation is fully entitled tostrike back to defend itself.

OOC: This may be true in the real world, but it isn't neccesarily true in NationStates.

Axis Nova

First of all... one thing I dislike about nationstates is that the nation profile doesnt take into account any dealings i have made in the forums.... I have a higher economy than the profile actually tells me through my dealings in the forums....... however i do find that thing/calculator quite interesting.... ive never knew about it before, thanks........ also yall do have some points yall made that i do agree with however... others, yeah well maybe.

Look, the fact is that you're far too small (7 million compared to the US' 280-290 billion to be fielding a space program, or lasers. You're just too poor. And I've seen your dealings on the forums. None of them are get your economy up another level, because they aren't a constant source of income. You have a government budget somewhere between 10-20 billion, you just can't afford these.

Wait till you're a larger (Most people develop nukes without godmodding at 100 million, with a good or better economy, for example, so you might want to wait longer to be realistic. I dunno. I waited that long so I didn't get ignored), and have a 'Strong' or better economy.

None of them are get your economy up another level, because they aren't a constant source of income.

I thought you said you've seen my dealings... ITD has a deal with me that they may mine all my uranium in the uninhabited portions of my nation for $7,500,000 per month/ $90,000,000 per year this is a constant source.

And I do realize that my nation is small... i'm trying to keep my industry toned down. But if this is my only industry... besides retail.. then my country should be able to handle it.

Also my military budget should be higher... military service is compulsory in my nation... ........ also my citizens are forced to use public transport, i banned cars... and the tax they must pay is 46%. BTW my pop just incresead by a million... i should have a 12.5% increase in my economy compared to the previous 7 million im my calulations are correct.

But remember... i am NOT trying to god-mode.... i toned it down to only one international industry...

and also, if i have to i could always just sell the plans instead of the actual product... i do lose money that way... oh well.....

Actually yeah.... INDUSTRY IS NOW CLOSED I only sold 10... my country can handle that... though not a constant business.... so i made a few billion... this was nice


.....The plans however are for sale...

taking into account the work put in to it, the testing of the prototype, and the shooting down of the prototype (damage)..... and other things...

cost for plans: 4 billion dollars

bump

Buddy, 90 million a year is small potatoes. That's not gonna fund what is basically a third world nation's laser or space program.

Wait till your national budget get's in the trillions, like RL economic powers. Then you'll have plenty of cash.

That deal wasnt the only thing that was funding the program. It was jsut one of them.

Orginal Plan: as people bought the SBL's then they will provide extra funding for the program.

But it doesnt matter... I dropped it.

Except for plans of course.

Well you can keep the plans build up your economy and then zap everyone you want.