NationStates Jolt Archive

http://mars.walagata.com/w/artitsa/Doujkillah04.gif

BBNK-01 Shipwreck.

Builder(s): Artitsan Naval Yards, Seatech construction yards (SATE), Pacific Naval Artisans constuction yard (PNA)

Designation: BBNK-01

Cost: $18,675,132,450

Operation Cost per year: $1,750,530,000

Power Plant: Three Nuclear Reactors (Pebblebed system)
Eight shafts, Eight propellers, seven blades each (Ala Oscar II).

Overall Length: 550 meters.

Displacement: 300,000 tons

Draft: 16m

Width: 80m

Speed: 32+ kts (Actual higher speed classified)

Crew: Ship’s company: 2,342 (2,112 enlisted. 230 officers)
SARTF: 20 (High degree of automation.)

Armament:
[4] 18" Naval ETC guns with EMR in two double turrets. (Range: 175km)
[24] 20" Telescoping ETC guns /w EMR. 12 port, and 12 starboard. (Range: 102km using scramjet rounds)
[8] Quad missile launchers for heavy SSM's (32 SS-N-24 or 32 SS-N-26Mod4)
[8] Kashtan-M CIWS systems
[2] Mk.2 12-Cell Unguided ASW Mortars
[4] Mk 101 VLS launchers with 30 cells each. 6 Missile cyclic reloader for fast launch. Total missiles: 720. (Medium to small missiles only. ie Tomahawk or equivlent. To mount SA-N-14's, uses 3 missile slots)

Combat Systems:
ASRS-13 "All Seeing Eye" 3-D air search radar
APAR-12B Air/Search (Long Range Air Search/Tracking)
AVUS-14 2-D "BoardGame" air search radar
10 Mk101 Fire Control
XNAS-32 "Mole" Surface Search Radar
4 Mk37 Gun Fire Control
2 Mk38 Gun Direction
1 Mk40 Gun Director
1 Data Uplink to Network & AWACs
AHMS-03 Hullmounted Sonar
ADMS-14 towed array Sonar

Countermeasures
Falltech Mk.602 Intercept/Jamming Unit
8 x Falltech Type 5 MR Chaff/Flare Dispensers
SLQ-25A Nixie torpedo countermeasure
Mk53 SRBOC decoy RL
Host arrays for ELINT equipment

Other:
1 Helicopter (EA-24C)
Double Hulled
4 to 12 inches of Armour.

Picture: http://mars.walagata.com/w/artitsa/Doujkillah04.gif

*SPECIAL THANKS TO FREETHINKERS FOR ALL OF HIS HELP.*

If that thing is going to live in the NS waters of today it needs more Countermeasures.

Yeah thanks for reminding me. I rushed along without including that.

If that thing is going to live in the NS waters of today it needs more Countermeasures.
LOL your a funny guy. Explain to me how you'd kill it, and then I'll tell you how I'll own you.

How does that ship have space for... well anything. Those 20" guns and their magazines will take up practically all of the internal hull space.

LOL your a funny guy. Explain to me how you'd kill it, and then I'll tell you how I'll own you.




Knowing the people in NS who think they can fire 5 million nukes and not be effected by anyway by it. That thing will be nuked to hell.

Displacement lad. And you don't see below the waterline. The 20" guns do take up alot of space, and that would be why they have telescoping barrels. I've been having brainstorming sessions with Freethinkers about this, and hes given it his thumbs up.

Knowing the people in NS who think they can fire 5 million nukes and not be effected by anyway by it. That thing will be nuked to hell.

1. I'd intercept any ICBM with an SA-N-14 which has 0.98 interception rate on missiles, 500km away from my ship.

2. I'd carpet nuke that nation in question with several thousand warheads.

No, I dont mean the barrels. Look at a cross-section drawing of a battleship and you'll see what I mean.

1. I'd intercept any ICBM with an SA-N-14 which has 0.98 interception rate on missiles, 500km away from my ship.


You really think you could stop every single missile fired at it?

Yes, I believe that 408 SA-N-14's would do the job from just this one vessel. Then possibly my Theatre Air Missile Defence ships (TAMDs) would pipe in with their 1,000 SA-N-14's each. Its not like Im going to have this ship unsupported...

ooc: sorry to be off-topic, but i was wondering what program you use to design the ship's profile. (i.e. what do you use to draw the ship?) or, did you just do that by hand/spent a lot of quality time w/adobe?

*laughs*

I used Paint, with Freethinkers help. The specifications were achieved with Freethinkers help as well. All of Doujins products are actually Freethinkers, therefor I disregard his opinion due to ooc pretenses.

98% interception is a little godmodded dont you think? Most RL ships have a 2% chance of interception. CIWS guns really are practically useless (although I realise that you will have a better as you're using missiles).

S-400 SAM has 0.97. This is the S-500 SAM (improved seeker, thrust vector, multiple stage, etc) which is navalized. Thus SA-N-14. CIWS systems have lower intercept values, but the S-500 makes mincemeat out of ICBMs that follow a ballistic tragectory.

I used Paint, with Freethinkers help. The specifications were achieved with Freethinkers help as well. All of Doujins products are actually Freethinkers, therefor I disregard his opinion due to ooc pretenses.

Less than half, in reality.

ooc: Fact remains. It also doesn't help that you have a very biased opinion ;)

Well, yes, I did help him and give my permission for the stuff to be used, so no problem there.

Its an intresting concept, and does allow for a greater number of guns than could be traditionally carried by a ship this size. Internal space is going to be cramped, but then again anyone who uses Soviet tech will be used to it. Endurance wont be spectacular, but the large beam and pretty oversized superstructure will compensate somewhat.

It seems a reasonable defensive unit, and will probably allow Artista to keep his homeland relatively safe from those Doujin knockoff's floating around, which from what he said seems to be the point. It does the job it was designed to do, which is better than many other NS warships.

As for the interception rate, probably a bit high Artista, especially against modern missiles in a combat situation, although 2 percent is way too low. All in all, it depends what missile is attacking you and in what numbers, so its difficult to judge that.

All in all,....not bad.

well in this case I was refering to an ICBM on a ballistic trajectory.

I said 2% for a CIWS gun.

Still pretty low. Alot of CIWS are good, Kashtan-M makes use of a gun-missile system, duel 30mm guns on a detection and targeting system I can't begin to describe. They are pretty good. Phalanx and Goalkeeper will usually get the job done, depending on the missile.

CIWS guns are rubbish, no offence. The CIWS firing is automated because no human could press the fire button in time to hit anything. Basically the CIWS just goes on in the background while you're jumping into a life boat. Although I agree, NS over-powered and, in my opinion, godmodded CIWS systmes have a decent chance of killing a missile. Anti-missile missile systems are a different matter though, and it's them that Artista uses, I believe.

You should know that when you deploy that someone will develop a weapon to counter it. The "godly" interception rate will be temporary until a new weapon is built.


P.D: (ooc) I guess this being the internet allowes having such impractical ideas for a ship :D

You should know that when you deploy that someone will develop a weapon to counter it. The "godly" interception rate will be temporary until a new weapon is built.


P.D: (ooc) I guess this being the internet allowes having such impractical ideas for a ship :D

The problem is is that even if RL rules were followed, the sheer size, danger, and, well, money and resources avaliable means that what you need in your military in the NS universe is sometimes a lot different than that in RL.

IC: Nice

OOC:
Good God, we're going back to broadsides and ships-of-the-line.

The problem is is that even if RL rules were followed, the sheer size, danger, and, well, money and resources avaliable means that what you need in your military in the NS universe is sometimes a lot different than that in RL.


True. We should be building mechas already at this pace.
(ooc)By the way, I went to your site and one of the ships reminds me of the spanish F100 frigates and the Akula class submarines but improved for the NS world, cool designs I may say ;)

fixed port and starboard. If you can manage to maneuver something like a Thunder Child or Leviathan onto the port or aft sections of this boat, it's f*cked. There's a reason modern ships should only use guns mounted on turrets and I think the name "Shipwreck" is going to end up being sadly accurate. Of course, this is assuming that Artista's opponent is competent, and there aren't many people here who can claim to be able to win a naval battle using actual tactics instead of numbers masquerading as tactics.]

Although to be honest with the nasty rnage of those main guns you probabaly get enough room to manouver for up the kilt/down the throat shots to be not quite as scary as they would other wise be. Like eveything its a compromise do you want flexability or sheer power, after all the same arguement can be made against the AC130...

As to CIWS well it all depends on the missile and the exact systems. Even if the rather optimisitc numbers that Oikerlon (sp?) put out for the millenium gun are only half true then we are looking at soemthing way more than 2% (esspecailly as 35mm AHEAD doesn't suffer the same problems of armour penetration as the phalanx's 20mm ammo, it has been demosntrated to mess tanks up pretty well with the standard light subprojectiles, the heavier ones are just nasty) of course missiles are also evolving from harpoon to big expensive weapons chock full of dodahs and penetration aides.

fixed port and starboard. If you can manage to maneuver something like a Thunder Child or Leviathan onto the port or aft sections of this boat, it's f*cked. There's a reason modern ships should only use guns mounted on turrets and I think the name "Shipwreck" is going to end up being sadly accurate. Of course, this is assuming that Artista's opponent is competent, and there aren't many people here who can claim to be able to win a naval battle using actual tactics instead of numbers masquerading as tactics.]

Ah, SS, I think you hit the nail on the head in the latter part of the sentence. Im well aware of the limits of the ships field of fire, but as you pointed out there are very, very few competent naval tacticians out there, and even fewer who operate the ships these vessels are meant to hunt down. Its quite simply the case of fitting enough firepower into the smallest possible frame.

Like I said, it does the job it was designed to do

Just a note to all those who claim the statistics of certain weaponry, If you read Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising, that is a good indication of how easily a fleet can be nailed.

80 missiles fired from long range.

Assuming you have AEGIS support let's say 26 get sapped.

Assuming the ships have their own SAMs, 10 more.

Assuming the CIWS are present, 4-8 more.

That's a minimum of 40 missiles impacting your fleet.

Plus a CIWS gun can only ever kill one missile in the time allowed.

Nice ship by the way.

OOC: Ok, so, based on what the ships size and specs are....

a close-shore vessel, if not an in-harbor ship only. No room for a crew to sleep, no room for foodstores, nothing. Would be a harbor guard at best. On a ship like a submarine, you can get away with storing food in "elbow room" due to the fact that it is not designed for toe-to-toe fighting but instead for sneak attack operations. On a battleship, you can't do this. The crew needs that room to manuver shells, powder, and themselves, to their battlestations.

A royal waste of money as/is.

A good rule of thumb for any deep-navy vessel is that 3/4-5/6th of the ship is to be dedicated to support systems for the crew. 3/4-5/6th of the remainder goes to defensive systems. The remaining bits, there's your offensive weapons. Not too intimidating to me, just need to run away for a few hours and then turn after the crew is exhausted to begin the attack, same tactics used against Mark Anthony by Octavian.

--tag--

Praetonia: Actually, the American CIWS is capable of nailing two or three targets per CIWS gun in the three second window that it would have with supersonic missiles. And frankly, I think you and others are just a little too enthusiastic about citing the performance of RL systems when only an idiot would use them in the NS world. RL systems, any of them, are generally so inferior to NS creations that whatever performance they can claim is so marginalized that they're not even worth mentioning, much less actually using.

Adjen: I think it's hilarious that you're lecturing the pre-eminant naval designer on NS, really, it is. You aren't saying anything that Artista and Freethinkers haven't already said.

Lots of good opinions here, lots of bad ones. Kashtan-M can intercept 7 missiles... each. 6 ready to fire SA-N-11's, and two 30mm 12,000rpm guns. There are 8 of them. Thats alot of protection. And as I said before these ships will ALWAYS be supported by TAMD Mk II's, which are ONLY anti-missile and aircraft defence. You'd need around 1,000 missiles to break through 2 TAMD Mk II's and another ship. I've designed my ships to survives salvo's of NS naval warfare, and they will continue to do so. As for the food stores and all that jazz.... look at the super structure. Its massive. Also, you do not see what is below the waterline, which as I already said is quite large. When it comes to out manuvering this piece, you forget that it will always have escorts, and I will be operating these ships in at least groups of 3.

This ship is designed to go toe to toe with a Aggressing Doujin Clone (theres so many out there) and rip it to shreads. Also, it would be a great tool in shore saturation. The VLS cells allow the ship to also carry a significant long range missile threat, out to 600km with its AM-96B morningstar missiles. This is a well rounded ship and will serve its purpose. 3 Have been laid down at seperate construction yards, and are expected to be completed in 4 years NS time.

Not too intimidating to me, just need to run away for a few hours and then turn after the crew is exhausted to begin the attack, same tactics used against Mark Anthony by Octavian.

You turn away, and I have D.223's bombing you, hundreds of AM-96B's pouring down on you, and long range 22" gunfire smashing through your decks. ;) Im not an idiot here. You all think Im going to have just one ship out there by itself... IT WILL OBVIOUSLY HAVE SUPPORT.

You should know that when you deploy that someone will develop a weapon to counter it. The "godly" interception rate will be temporary until a new weapon is built.


P.D: (ooc) I guess this being the internet allowes having such impractical ideas for a ship :D

I've had my S-500/SA-N-14 since last September... has yet to be rendered useless. And when it happens, prepare to meet the S-600. Thats how technology works.

yes, but we should never forget that any system no matter how advance it could be has it weakness that can be exploited but like Scandinavian said is all about the right tactics. Also believing that you can win every situation, every scenary(or at least thats what you are leading me to think) by brute force(i.e smash you to hell and back with bombs) and trusting too much in the technology(since technology in any ship could fail no matter how advanced it is) could lead to a defeat(ooc: Ask the germans in WW2: lots of technology but hittler tactics...)

You are assuming I do not use tactics. And any nation here would have their navies crippled just as much as ours would be if the technology failed. Its the age we live in.

S-500/SA-N-14 counter, Sunstreak, mock 8+ Ramjet cruise missile. Russain Ageis Killer. Launched from several hundred miles out by a bomber or ship, scoots in at 20 feet or less over the waves. Generously, you detect it at 40 miles. (Really, really, really generous I know.) You have less then 30 seconds to aquire, track, and launch. A really good radar system on an E-3C sentry can detect a B-1B coming in at 40 feet above the waves, mock 2-3 about 20 miles away. The range will be shorter on any ship. 20 miles you have 15 seconds to do all that. Now picture 60 or more of those coming in.

S-500/SA-N-14 counter, Sunstreak, mock 8+ Ramjet cruise missile. Russain Ageis Killer. Launched from several hundred miles out by a bomber or ship, scoots in at 20 feet or less over the waves. Generously, you detect it at 40 miles. (Really, really, really generous I know.) You have less then 30 seconds to aquire, track, and launch. A really good radar system on an E-3C sentry can detect a B-1B coming in at 40 feet above the waves, mock 2-3 about 20 miles away. The range will be shorter on any ship. 20 miles you have 15 seconds to do all that. Now picture 60 or more of those coming in.

1. No missile can achieve mach 8 at 20 feet. Impossible with Ramjet, and any turning would cause the missile to disolve.

2. AWACs and look down radar provide effective means of discovering said missile from around 150km's away. But before hand, your aircraft is destroyed by 500km range SA-N-14 or aircraft scrambled to intercept 1000km's before launch range.

3. ASTER missiles launched from TAMD to deal with low level target, seeing how they are the best in dealing with seaskimmers.

4. THEL laser systems destroy missiles.

5. Kashtan-M CIWS 30mm tear through missile due to it being unable to perform manuevers at mach 8. Also, Kashtan-M does paticularily well against Sea Skimmers.

6. Ship moves out of way.

People. All of you assume Im dumb and don't have AWACs in the Air. I have been doing Naval combat on NS longer then you have, and I know what Im going to expect and how to deal with it.

My nation is interested in your ship to increase their naval capabilities....Armed Nation of Troen will buy 10

We will get back to you if we decide to sell them.

The nation of troen thanks you for considering the contract

Is it a trimaran or monohull? I can't tell from the pic and I don't think I can find it in the text.

Praetonia: Actually, the American CIWS is capable of nailing two or three targets per CIWS gun in the three second window that it would have with supersonic missiles. And frankly, I think you and others are just a little too enthusiastic about citing the performance of RL systems when only an idiot would use them in the NS world. RL systems, any of them, are generally so inferior to NS creations that whatever performance they can claim is so marginalized that they're not even worth mentioning, much less actually using.

Exactly, I myself use an anti-missile missile system that can achieve a good rate of interception, although I doubt Artitsa's statement that 2 30mm guns can shoot down 7 missiles in 3 seconds.

I didn't say it can shoot down, I said it can engage. ;) Big difference. None of you are actually reading, just skimming.

Is it a trimaran or monohull? I can't tell from the pic and I don't think I can find it in the text.

Monohull. I may make it Trimarian, I may not. We'll see how this version does.