NationStates Jolt Archive

Certain conflicts with different nations who all claim to have the pope has brought me to this. I think that their should be an unbiased alliance that allows all nations (except facist) with a majority of its citizens who are Catholic to join. Government and politics are not brought here. We would like to unite Capitalist and Communist Catholics to be united atlast.

I also think that this unbiased allaince of Catholics should choose whothe Pope of all NS Catholics will be. This alliance should not be a military force what so ever. Nations who belong to this alliance can defend it only. No offensive moves. We will set with example not with violence.

http://lcdiocese.org/images/braxton.jpg

Arch-Bishop Braxton
Bishop of the Catholic church of Communist Louisiana
St. Louis Cathedral
New Orleans, CL

IC: I dont want any flaming here. If you are going to bitch about it please create another thread. If you are not interested at all and are here to argue about it create another thread. If you are here because you are interested or have any questions about the alliance please by all means post.

-sigh- Prepare for the Great Schism.

Pope of the CM Roman Catholic Church, Pope Pius XIII has declared your pope, "The devil in human form. The beast, the great deceiver, a million lies disguised behind the mask of a human countenance." He has also excommunicated your pope and labeled him the "Anti-pope".


Added: (Look sad) "Sorry, I didn't bother to read the whole the whole thing. I just saw the word pope and boom. Then I jumped and excommunicated your guy. Sorry."

:(

The replys that were jost posted are examples of what should not be here. Apparently they can not read well.

(89% of the Grunge-French population is catholic)



Message from the Grunge-French Catholic Episcopate:
Jesus created one church. Only one, and that is his desire, that we, the christians, can unite and can follow our faith under the guide of His Holy Institution, the Holy Mother Church.
We congratulate the work of the CL´s catholics in favor of our holy faith.
The Grunge-French Catholic Episcopate, one of the biggest Catholic churches, will be glad if in this alliance a Pope is choosen, and, depending on the number of different nation accepting that Pope, we will accept it too, dissregarding its nationality. We will keep in contact, and if a meeting is planned, we will send a representative.

We are sorry to hear that kind of words from Communist Missisipi, but, those who hate are not real catholics, or christians for that matter.

http://www.hoboes.com/html/FireBlade/Dumas/History/Richelieu.jpg

His Holiness,The Cardinal Leonidas, Bishop of Mistral City.





*************


Message from the Ministry of Sports, Culture and Religion of Grunge-France:

The State/Religion division guarantees that we will not oppose to any decision our national churches decide. If they want to have relations with the Commie Lousiana´s church, is their right, and we will preserve that right.
However, our church cannot commit our nation to an alliance that has something to do with military force -does not matter if its only for defensive actions-. If this alliance forcefully requires a defensive alliance, we will forbid our religious institutions to sign it. Otherwise, they can do whatever they want, preserving, as we said, the division State-Religion.

Monsignor Galdur Passos, Minister of Sports, Culture and Religion.

TO:Grunge-France
FROM: Arch-Bishop Braxton

We would agree to this alliance. We also are recognized as our own specific religion and the state has nothing to do with the church. We were hoping for an defense like that of the Vatican City. No military and they are protected from invasion by treaties and nations who will protect the Vatican City.

I would like to arrange a meeting at this time, as soon as we maybe gain a coupple of other nations in this said alliance.

ooc: I am incrediablly interested in this. However, IC, my nation does not have a separation of Church and State. The whole nation is ruled by parish councils at the local level, bishop assemblies on the regional level, and the Council of Cadinals on a national level.

We are also classified as 'Democratic Socialists' if that has any bearing. Although, if you allow me into this alliance, I would be most grateful.

-Arx Angelus

Maybe if you'll allow me to invade Holy see ofCatholicism and replace that pope with a more acceptable one that could fix this schism.

A Statement from the Catholic Church of Hamptonshire

Depending upon the teachings and positions of this proposed Papacy, the Catholic Church of Hamptonshire, which boasts 64% of the population in communion, may consider entering into a larger communion with this organization.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2002/04/23/image506987l.jpg
His Emminence, Walter Cardinal Luther
Archbishop of Seaburg
Primate of Hamptonshire

Arx Angelus their is no law prohibiting church/state. It is nations right to pass and carry out laws. If your nation has legalized marijuana and another nation who is apart of this Catholic Alliance hasn't, we can not do anything to you. If your indivdual nation chooses to have no seperation of church/state that is alright.

Hamptonshire, the only teachings to come from this alliance are those of Catholics. As I said, no political views are seen here. This is an unbiased Catholic Alliance open to Catholics.

The Confederacy of Fascisti Morali has not yet decided on an officialized religion, but should it be decided upon as Catholic, we would be more than willing to join this alliance.

As you well know, there are multitudes of branches within Catholicism itself. There are liberals, conservatives, orthodox, ultraorthodox, Latin Rite, Eastern Rite, as well as the category of NS Catholicism. Politicals views do not concern the the Catholic Church of Hamptonshire, or only concerns is that if the Truth and the Way.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2002/04/23/image506987l.jpg
His Emminence, Walter Cardinal Luther
Archbishop of Seaburg
Primate of Hamptonshire

Dyelli Beybi fully supports this move. We feel this Alliance should not be attended by Government representatives, rather a meeting of Cardinals to elect a New Pope to represent a Catholic Church. Catholic is supposed to mean United, however the Catholic Church is far from United.

Catholic means 'worldly' or 'world-wide', not united. However, there is the belief in 'ONE, holy, and apostolic church'.

Although, I still see your point.

No politics, but fasicts arent allowed? Lol.

A Papal Enclave should be free of any secular interference. It has been the lesson of history that Government tends to corrupt Religion.

A Papal Enclave should be free of any secular interference. It has been the lesson of history that Government tends to corrupt Religion.

Where do you suggest we set up this enclave then?

(OOC: Who controls the NS Holy See/Vatican?)

The population of Penpusher Confederacy is mostly Catholic (although the government is disestablishmentarian) The Archbishop of the Penpusher Confederacy, James Walker, stated that the Catholic community of PC supports this movement.

Where do you suggest we set up this enclave then?


The more remote the better. The location is not important as much as the isolation and the 'atmosphere'.

The more remote the better. The location is not important as much as the isolation and the 'atmosphere'.

Arx Angelus is a fairly small nation population-wise, and we have vast tracts of rather isolated land. If it is desired, I am sure that a sufficiently out-of-the-way chapel could be found to elect the new pope...

C'mon Catholics... Don't be shy. :)

~Bump~

The entire Order of Santa Sofia – ruling party of the Most Serene Republic of Santa Sagissima, in an extraordinary session, and an overwhelming public majority in referendum welcomes this move and agrees completely with the proposed split between defensive and religious allegiance. We also would oppose the excommunication of fascist nations, although if a puppet Pope appointed by a fascist dictator, similar to the pope of so-called “Communist” Louisiana was elected then Santa Sagissima would consider the line of Peter to have been temporarily mislaid.

...although if a puppet Pope appointed by a fascist dictator, similar to the pope of so-called “Communist” Louisiana was elected then Santa Sagissima would consider the line of Peter to have been temporarily mislaid.

Well, I imagine that our new representative would be elected by popular vote...

Hm... as the highest Iuthian Christian Representative I have looked at the proposition lay before me by my brothers in Communist Liousiana and due to the political aspects of an alliance based on faith I have had to seek political and diplomatic advice from the Iuthian Diplomatic Corps.

After much discussion with these experts regarding the nature of the offer for "Alliance", something which has been specified to me as a political arrangement with I am not authorised to grant, and the Diplomatic Corps are not willing to join on the grounds that such obligations shouldn't be dependant only on the basis that our religions are the same.

In anycase, I cannot sign such an agreement and I feel I must point out that this is a political issue.


Cardinal Michael Reveria, representative of the Christian Faith in Iuthia.

To: The Communist Louisiana Catholic Represintaitves Seeking Papist Unity.
From: The Fenian Council, Ruling Body of The Holy Republic of Erinin.

Erinin having a large ethnic and religious cross section due to its open border policy with Ancient Order of Hibernian states. See potential for enhanced social stability in this endevour to unite Catholics globally.
We will endorse and support this effort fully.
With one exception:
The exclusion of Catholics who through no fault of their own live underneath a Facist regime is disgraceful and should be re-thought.
Should a Facist despot be so moved as to allow it's people to be organized under a foreign Papacy then that chance should be siezed upon to bring the hope of the Church to those people who suffer under such a regime.
Without the chance for true Catholic unity this is simply a political maneuver in the guise of religious unification.
It is this council's sincereist wish that this prove a sound idea.
End Messege.

well, I will treat this thread as OOC, because otherwise it wouldn't really make sense.

I actually think this is a pretty good idea. The Catholic Church of Agrigento would, IC, follow the leadership of this pope.

87% of the population of Agrigento is listed as Roman Catholic, although church attendance is slightly lower than this.

The leader of the Agrigentian Catholic Church is Archbishop Alfonso Potenza. He resides and conducts the affairs of the church at the ancient San Lazzaro cathedral in the capital city of Sicila.


With the given population of 2,564,000,000 (which will increase as this thread grows with age) the approximate Catholic population of Agrigento is 2,200,000,000...


However I am against the political segregation....Even the Pope visited Castro :]

We should not exclude any beleivers based on their politics...

So far we have addressed the following and please tell me so I can change this. Also please tell me so I can add and take off things.



There is a need for an unbasied non-political communion of Catholics.

There is a need for a meeting of international church leaders.

The Pope will be the leader of the Catholic Church insomuch as he is "First Among Equals".



Rough-drafted by: Hamptonshire, Communist Louisiana

We need more to discuss unless this is all.

So far we have addressed the following and please tell me so I can change this. Also please tell me so I can add and take off things.

The need for an unbiased non-political alliance of Catholics

The need for a meeting of church leaders from participating nations

The need for a NS Catholic Pope who will NOT have political connections to any nation.

This NS Catholic Pope will be the leader of the NS Catholic Church.

The word alliance is, not what we would thing is needed. There is a need for an unbasied non-political communion of Catholics.

There is a need for a meeting of international church leaders.

The Pope will be the leader of the Catholic Church insomuch as he is "First Among Equals".

Although... I suppose that the NS pope would be more of the Supreme Represtantave of the Catholic Communion of NS... And it'd be nice to call the position something like that, because Pope just seems a little disrepectful IMO.

Although... I suppose that the NS pope would be more of the Supreme Represtantave of the Catholic Communion of NS... And it'd be nice to call the position something like that, because Pope just seems a little disrepectful IMO.

I'd say "Primate of All NationStates". That would be best.

I'd say "Primate of All NationStates". That would be best.

Catholic Primate of All NationStates?

I think a name for the head of this communion should be addressed but not at this point. I will say though that the leader should not be called the Pope and should have a name that reflects the position.

Catholic Primate of All NationStates?

What's your problem with that selected title?

I dont think the word Primate should be used. Its making me think of monkies.

What's your problem with that selected title?

I think that CL just means that we should probably work out the bigger issues first, before we nit-pick with seeming minor things...

Sorry to have gotten this discussion off-topic by my naming remarks...

Let us continue discussing the more important stuff. :)

I dont think the word Primate should be used. Its making me think of monkies.

Primate is the title given to the Archbishop of the most senior diocese in a nation. In Britian you have the Archbishop of York as Primate of England and the Archbishop of Canterbury as Primate of All England.

It's just a honorific title.

I think that their should be an unbiased alliance that allows all nations (except facist) (Fascismo)

Fascismo was not Nazism. Please refer to Nazism for now on. Fascismo was created by Benito Mussolini in 1919. The country went along smoothly with the support of the people for the next 20 years. Right before WW2, hitler gave Mussolini an ultimatum: Join us (italia is a strategic position in the german war), or we crush you (the country didn't create a modern military, but it was bad leadership that destroyed it's nazy, which is VERY good)!

Germany committed war-crimes on Italians after Italia surrendered because of many different factors that i won't get into at this time. Maybe if we pursue this conversation, i will explain it. The communist partisans took mussolini out of his cell in Milan, and then murdered him.

Please refer to it as Nazism, non fascismo. I'm a big italiano attivista, so i take certain things to the heart that is universally incorrect. If you want to "purify" Italia, you will end up with a few million in the north. It's pathetic, and something that fascismo didn't stand for.

Bermany on the other hand was feasable. It's a white nation that adopted nazism. Or rather created it. Austria too, it's almost the same country. Germany/Austria.

Yes... I agree. Facist nations that are Catholic should still be allowed into the communion. Although, we can still try as we can to pursuade them to change their minds..

It's like saying Soviet Communism that murdered 9 million slavs and more than half of the soviet doctors is a utopia paradise cimpared to the Italian-way pre-WW2 era. I say that soviet communism is second to nazism. Fascism could have been very cruel if it was under someone but Mussolini. He always said he wanted to bring the roman empire back, boosted the economy, overall good peacetime leader. War propelled Italia into a US puppet nation.

Did you know that Mussolini visited America?

Did you know that Mussolini visited America?

As fascinating as this all is... Can you please make a separate thread for it?
This thread is for the creating of a NS-wide Catholic Communion... Not to debate the pros and cons of Italian Fascism under Musollini. If you want to join the communion, then please, by all means, post relevantly.

If not, please go somewhere else.

Did you know that Mussolini visited America?

Did you know Mussolini was the only one at the Munich Conference who didn't need a translator because he spoke Italian, French, English, and German.

He also was kicked out of Switzerland when he was young socialist agitator, he went to France for a while.

He also got into lots of fights while he was in school.

This communion will include all nations supporting the Catholic Church. The member nations maybe any type of government.

He looks just like my papa. I tell him that, heh. Si, he was a good man. If someone has a problem with my history/ancestry OOC, i just smear theirs.

THIS IS A THREAD THAT INVOLVES ONLY NATIONS WISHING TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS COMMUNION. IF YOU WISH TO TALK HISTORY OR BITCH ABOUT CATHOLICS OR ORGANIZED RELIGION PLEASE DO SO SOMEWHERE ELSE WHERE I DONT HAVE TO READ. If you would like to ask any questions that havent been addressed or you are interested in this communion, by all means please voice your opinion.

I support all religions. But there is seperation of church and state. The largest is the state-ran religion of IIRRAAQQII. The people are basically extremely patriotic people, and very loyal to the government. But anyone can believe in what they want, as long as it is NOT on the IIRRAAQQII Terroist List, which none are.

Yes, the definition of "terroist" is broad, but that's why our definition of "terroist" isn't universal beyond our borders.

OOC: I apologize for speaking OOC too much, i rarely do that.

bump

CL... what must we discuss at the moment?

[From within in the secretive catacombs below the city of Ondice, northern Malahi Empire]

His Holiness, Bishop Quiniff Sanik of the underground Catholic Church of Malahi doth request acceptance into this Holiest of endeavors. His Holiness must also request that no knowledge of this correspondence be leaked to the proper political rulers of Malahi; it would bear great consequence upon all of the few Catholics who remain under the face of holding the religion of the majority of Malahi; worship of "The Creator".

It may also befit the Believers of Malahi if, in the event that this Alliance is formed, direct persuasion could be brought upon the non-believers of this country- if only to bring us acceptance in their culture. As of now, however, such actions are not safe.

Sincerely,

His Holiness, Bishop Quiniff Sanik of the underground Catholic Church of Malahi

Greetings Brothers and Sisters,

I, Sister Maria Mercedes, represent the Congregation for Religious Orthodoxy, which has been chosen to communicate with other Catholic provinces on this joyful question of Catholic unity.

The Most Serene and Pious Republic of Santa Sagissima agrees that an alternative title to Pope might be desirable and suggests a move that is radical in both an etymological and spiritual sense [radical means of the roots]

ORTHODOX – CATHOLIC UNITY

I suggest that we seek communion with our Orthodox brothers and sisters, who have been divided from us for so long by the power struggles of irreligious men. I suggest that we do not make a big deal out of the special privileges of the Patriarch of Rome – satisfying ourselves with the both the letter and spirit of the formula “first among equals”.

This would require some theological argument (eg over the filioque) and admistrative discussion but with good will that could be overcome.

Peace be with you,

Sister Maria Mercedes del Sagrado Corazon
the Congregation for Religious Orthodoxy
The Most Serene and Pious Republic of Santa Sagissima


Ooc: If that doesn’t convince, as spiteful as this might sound: it would really be one in the eye for the Proddies!

We feel an election should be held, attended by the Cardinals of all representative Nations with the goal of electing a Pope from among them. Dyelli Beybi is willing to allot a section of the city of Saint Guineford's to sole-Governance by the new Papal body. It would become an autonomous State ran by the pope and College of Cardinals. The College and Pope would of course be gifted the Papal Palace once inhabited by the protestant "Pope" as well as the Cathedral and surrounding city blocks.

Official Statement from the Church:

Oy it's about time you people looked for a Pope, I've been leading my Island for too long. I'll join in the Alliance. And if you require a place for the Pope to stay, the Island of Rose has many unihabited Rose Fields. Thank you and God with you.
Archbishop of the City of Rose: His Holiness, Sergei Kruzevech

~Bump~

Edit: If we need a 'papal' residence, Arx Angelus is a beautiful country... *hint, hint* :)

We would donate the island of Ajaccio in the Mediterranean as a residence. We would also provide workers for the construction.

Hmm... it seems like Crossman has gone off and declared himself pope... :/

Crossman is no concern of ours except to deny this heresy. Dyelli Beybi feels the offer from Communist Louisiana to be the best thus far. A new Papal State is sure to attract unwanted attention and an island is more isolated and less easily infiltrated.

We're not sure about the location, but we think that an Oecumenical Council should be called in Communist Louisiana, being as they proposed this originally.

Just a point of clarification, we are not looking to establish a Papal State or even indeed a Papacy.

I was under the impression we were - in opposition to the Right Wing Pope created by Holy See ofCatholicism.

I was under the impression we were - in opposition to the Right Wing Pope created by Holy See ofCatholicism.

Not a Pope, but a Primate. (not the monkey kind...)

A Primate:

A Civilian leader of a certain type of Religion?

I'm working with Morrowind here people...

Really just a title, TIOR...

We are not a opposition to the right winged was of Holy See ofCatholicism.

Those (atleast I think) who are wanting to take part are here to unite catholics pretty much.

I myself think that since we are in majority, I do think we should apoint a "first among equals" to act as the head of the Catholic Church.

We are not a opposition to the right winged was of Holy See ofCatholicism.

Those (atleast I think) who are wanting to take part are here to unite catholics pretty much.

I myself think that since we are in majority, I do think we should apoint a "first among equals" to act as the head of the Catholic Church.

Also like to point out that any Church leader would be a "First Among Equals". The 'Equals' refer to the bishops. Since bishop is the highest ordained "rank", titles such as Cardinal, Archbishop, and Primate are purely honorific and are they as rolemodels. The Pope is the person referred to as "First Among Equals" since while he does have certain invested powers, he cannot order a bishop to do anything.

Do you think it is time for me to maybe call a meeting to elect this position and what not.

I also think that a basic manifesto to outline for people what this will mean for catholics on NS.

Do you think it is time for me to maybe call a meeting to elect this position and what not.

I also think that a basic manifesto to outline for people what this will mean for catholics on NS.

Yes, the Conclave should be called. A Conclave to 'elect', by the Grace of God, the Patriarch of NationStates.

I am going to make a new thread. What should the topic be.

by the way, the meeting will take place at St. Louis Cathedral in New Orleans.

http://www.littlemesahouse.com/copyright_applies_to_all_images/NOFQ/Cathedral%20of%20St%

I am going to make a new thread. What should the topic be.

by the way, the meeting will take place at St. Louis Cathedral in New Orleans.

http://www.littlemesahouse.com/copyright_applies_to_all_images/NOFQ/Cathedral%20of%20St%

Topic- "NS Catholic Conclave"

We agree with CL that the aim is not to set a pope up against the Holy See. Santa Sagissima has in fact already given allegiance to the Holy See in the absence of any other alternative.

I think the Bishop of Louisiana should call an Oecumenical Council (not a Conclave, as we are not going to elect a Pope). You don't have to be Popel to call these councils, as at Nicaea, Chalcedon etc.

but I think we really should invite the Orthodox in as well. WE're not choosing a Pope, so that;s the major stumbling block gone already.

Our Bishop, Domingo Simone, has also expressed an interest in holding talks with the Pope of "Communist" Mississippi - a kind of fact finding mission.

Our Bishop, Domingo Simone, has also expressed an interest in holding talks with the Pope of "Communist" Mississippi - a kind of fact finding mission.

Do you have Yahoo messenger? MSN messenger? Or mIRC chat?

Should it be open, closed, or semi-open(invite only)

Should it be open, closed, or semi-open(invite only)

I'd suggest semi-open.

ooc
no i dont have instant messaging, and, to be honest, having read some of the incredibly detailed operation purification i dont think i have the time to rp a visit, although His Grace is very keen. Perhaps we'll meet at the Oecumenical Concil.

Please post here from now on.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=6604717#post6604717