NationStates Jolt Archive

But firstly, and most importantly:

If I see anyone, ANYONE, using this technology elsewhere, I have the right by NS law to sue, and/or invade. You have been warned.

Kazakhstania has been developing this new torpedo for some time. We have been developing it in coordination with The Zoogie People, and must thank him and his scientific people, for helping us greatly.

We wish to publish the results to these tests here, right here. this is revolutionary technology, and could change the way of warfare forever. But first, a little about Caesium.

You should relly look Here (http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Cs/key.html).

But the basics:

Name: caesium
Symbol: Cs
Atomic number: 55
Atomic weight: 132.90545 (2)
CAS Registry ID: 7440-46-2
Group number: 1
Group name: Alkali metal
Period number: 6
Block: s-block

The metal is characterised by a spectrum containing two bright lines in the blue (accounting for its name). It is silvery gold, soft, and ductile. It is the most electropositive and most alkaline element. Caesium, gallium, and mercury are the only three metals that are liquid at or around room temperature. Caesium reacts explosively with cold water, and reacts with ice at temperatures above -116°C. Caesium hydroxide is a strong base and attacks glass.

As you can see, Caesium explodes in water. Kazakhstania manufactured some, and attempted to put it into experiments:

First, we put 5g in a tub of water 30cm wide surrounded by 3mm of Steel. Suitably, it exploded, and blew thetub clean in half.

Second, we dumped 50g in a tub just over a metre side, surrounded by 3mm of Titanium. The titanium was dented and water gushed out.

500g was dropped in a huge pool of water 150 metres wide, surrounded by 6mm of Titanium and Steel. Believe it or not, it was split right around.

The ultimate test was exploding 10kg of it, ammased in a chemical plant out of Kazakhstania, under an old decrepid Thunder Class Battleship, with Titanium Epoxy Resin, Tungsten and Steel armor almost a 2 metres thick. It was a collosal explosion, which ripped the hull in two, splitting over 2 metres of metal in two.

Then, we tried it once more, in a torpedo. With a system of blowing out the sphere containing the Caesium as a liquid using a small charge of C4, exposing the Cs to water, the 50kg of it detonated. This ripped 10 metre, 10 metres of solid titanium alloy in two. The ship suitable sunk.

We are still developing this technology, but will prefect it soon for combat and test use.

How are you going to afford all that processed Cs? Also, consider the fact that it is a central ingredient in dirty bombs, and using it like this is going to be super messy. I won't question the explosive capacity of it, even though your last estimate seems greatly over expectant......

If you want it cleaner, I suggest potassium, which is non-radioactive and also the 7th most abundant metal on the planet.

But does not react nearly as much, as it just goes on fire.

Caesium can be ridded of ots radioactivity, as it is mostly man made.

And to make it in such small amounts for such a large coutry is acceptable.

If you rid Caesium of it's radioactivity, it will basically become Xenon. Plus the fact that it will lose it's alkalinity. Also, Francium is the most Alkaline element. You shouldn't trust everything Webelements says (since thats where you copied it from).

If you rid Caesium of it's radioactivity, it will basically become Xenon. Plus the fact that it will lose it's alkalinity. Also, Francium is the most Alkaline element. You shouldn't trust everything Webelements says (since thats where you copied it from).

yes but Francium has such a short half life it can only be seen as a wave length. I think your estimates for this project are a bit too great, ceasium dropped in luke warm water will bartle destroy a glass bowl. As it is very reactive it costs lots to extract it from its ore so this will be a pricy weapon

im retarded, painkillers i swear.

OOC: Caesium doesnt occur in Uranium mines...

uranium isnt the only thing in the ground. mines are large.

Cesium isnt normally mined though.

If I see anyone, ANYONE, using this technology elsewhere, I have the right by NS law to sue, and/or invade. You have been warned.

Um...Since when is invasion a realistic response to patent theft? Did Germany invade everyone who copied Mauser's bolt-action mechanism?

thats probably the last resort...i know id be pissed if people started selling my baseline carbines

Cesium isnt normally mined though.

yep, its extarcted through electrolysis

uh i dont know what you guys are talking about <.<

How much will the warheads be?

A hell of a lot.

This weapon will probably be restricted to use on heavy cruisers and aircraft carriers, since it would cost a lot to do. It can be made by man, you know, so it is possible. I asked my science teacher, he has a PhD btw :D

And every thread you go on you see some guy using nukes for no reason. This would not be too dirty, and it would be used underwater. Its not as bad as nuking a fleet, thats for sure.

Also, this can be made in large quantities, unlike francium which has been made in tiny, tiny quantities.

Also, the reason for the warning at the beginning is because I dont want some person stealing my most important naval technology.

I assume you are using Caesium 133 or 137 since there are 32 different isotopes of Caesium.

http://www.fact-index.com/c/ca/caesium.html

[You can't copyright the reactions of elements, it's like copyrighting nukes. If you wanted to copyright the torpedo used for this project, that would be fine, but to use elements that react explosively in water as part of a torpedo warhead is sort of common sense.]

Indeed, Cs 133.

Also, i am copyrighting the torpedo and way in which the Caesium is transported and exposed to water in this system using new technology I developed (imagination, you see).

Anyone can use Caesium, just not in the way of the torpedo.

Also, give me credit for thinking, as most n00bs just "invent" a plasma tank/shield and dont know how it works.

[Oh, I give you credit where it's due, I'm just saying that copyrighting the use of Cesium in torpedoes is too sweeping. The second I read the effects of Cesium in water I thought of a way to accomplish an reaction to the water that turned out different from yours. See what I'm saying?]

I see you, yes.

Im just really hoping it works.

I do believe that a long time ago I had a storefront that sold Caesium Anti-ship bombs. I guess this is different though. My bomb was dropped near to a ship, as close as possible so that after it sunk a little, the bomb exploded throwing the caesium into the water. It soon proved very expensive though, so I suggest using Rubidium as it is still very reactive but more common (the further down group 1 of the periodic table (alkali metals) the more reactive the element and hence the more rare).

Anyway, carry on the good work, I do not mind the use of Ceasium except in my patented bomb design. And I ask that I can be allowed to continue as well, only in bombs though.

Thanks and good luck,
IN

How are you going to afford all that processed Cs? Also, consider the fact that it is a central ingredient in dirty bombs, and using it like this is going to be super messy. I won't question the explosive capacity of it, even though your last estimate seems greatly over expectant......

If you want it cleaner, I suggest potassium, which is non-radioactive and also the 7th most abundant metal on the planet.
This person is right. Potassium is more abundant and more explosive, I would also suggest soium. It doesn't have as much of a "KABOOM effect, in destruction, but the blast radius is larger. My nation has been developing a sodium/potassium based torpedoe that has a large and powerful blast radius. Much stronger than normal torpedoes. If you want(I don't know if this will work) use a magnesium strip to ignite thermite in it. It burns extremely hot and will melt through most any hull.

Woah. Something messed up.

It is not more explosive! The more down the periodic table you go in that column, the more reactive you get. Also, you can make Caesium in a large plant, as we would do.

Potassium would only burn as it creates Hydrogen, and not explode as we would wish. Hell, sodium is what you put on primary school volcano projects. It cant sink a ship!

Reactivity and the effect of the reaction are not the same thing. Guess what, Sodium creates Hydrogen when reacting with water, Potassium creates Hydrogen when reacting with water, guess what Caesium makes?

Na + H2O = NaO + H2
K + H2O = KO + H2
Ce + H2O = CeO + H2

Oh, and in the school volcano projects, you put a tiny sliver on Na into it. We learned what a slightly larger sliver (maybe about 1 gram) of Na does. It exploded sending glass flying across the room. Potassium is more violent.

Reactivity and the effect of the reaction are not the same thing. Guess what, Sodium creates Hydrogen when reacting with water, Potassium creates Hydrogen when reacting with water, guess what Caesium makes?

Na + H2O = NaO + H2
K + H2O = KO + H2
Ce + H2O = CeO + H2

Oh, and in the school volcano projects, you put a tiny sliver on Na into it. We learned what a slightly larger sliver (maybe about 1 gram) of Na does. It exploded sending glass flying across the room. Potassium is more violent.

Tut tut Kaz, you mean you ahven't been watching CBBC? potassium does explode in water so does sodium (although not as dramatically).

Now for a truely ansty weapon use the good old caesium gobstopper, explodign heads since 1994...

:wink:
Instead of having someone steal the patent, how 'bout some good ol' ingenuous genuine disinformation? Yes, sometimes to lie IS the best policy... maybe a fouled design that will render the lard out of the builders.
Just a thought...
:idea:
Holy crap, sometimes I crack myself up!
:shock:

Thanks for the info guys.

However, we are staying with Caesium, and these will go into service in 5 years time, just in time for the Sinoese war....

Zoogiedom, having jointly developed these weapons, is happy to see that it has succeeded in weapons tests. We will begin our own weapons tests, at the same time conveniently ridding ourselves of to-be-retired battleships.

We won't rule out Potassium as a possibility in future developments, but currently, only Cesium warheads will be used.

Kikin Urass....what??

OOC: ok this may sound silly but from what i've read you've sead no one can make a Caesium Torpedoe, but what if the system used was completly different, the yeld the delivery etc etc i can understand you (c) your design of a Caesium torpedo, but to go round a say "i made it first you cant make it" is a bit n00bish but currect me if im wrong.

Methinks you just want to make one yourself :P

I think we established that what was banned was the specific system Kazakhstania and I developed for it. Scandavian evidently came up with a different one, but we're allied, so it's all good.

I'm not sure this is ICly public.

OOC: why would i want to make one im Future tech, i just read interesting post that are based on RL things or even things that people have spent at lest 5 mins working on (considering i find it grate that there are people out there who use there brains and dont just do a copy and paste of stats of a F-16 and call it a Flying Plane with lots of guns and will kill you all muhahahaha)

No, no, of course not. You're future tech...oops.

-puts on best corporate front face-

Caesium is an EXCELLENTLY horrible and violent reactant with space......aaaaaaaaaah never mind.


nd call it a Flying Plane with lots of guns and will kill you all muhahahaha)


Of course not...they'd call it MRFX-1 Uber uber flying plane :P

A hell of a lot.

This weapon will probably be restricted to use on heavy cruisers and aircraft carriers, since it would cost a lot to do. It can be made by man, you know, so it is possible. I asked my science teacher, he has a PhD btw :D

And every thread you go on you see some guy using nukes for no reason. This would not be too dirty, and it would be used underwater. Its not as bad as nuking a fleet, thats for sure.

Also, this can be made in large quantities, unlike francium which has been made in tiny, tiny quantities.

Also, the reason for the warning at the beginning is because I dont want some person stealing my most important naval technology.

Your most important naval tech? This torpedo would never work. First off, since Cs is an alkali substance it reacts most violently with distilled water - but because some oceanic temperatures are cold and Cs also reacts to cold water (just not as violently) it may have an effect.

However, ocean temperature isn't cold. No, the surface water is generally warm - on average 60-65 degrees Fahrenheit. Below is the average surface temperature(It doesn't really make a decline until the thermocline, in which it is very rapid then).

http://www.gaizme.com/temperature_depth.jpg

I just got done talking to a couple people from a couple universities and DOE organizations (Ames Laboratory, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and University of Illinois) - They all pretty much said the same. Cesium wouldn't have an extreme reaction - in fact a pretty small one, because as I said it reacts most potently with distilled water at colder temperatures (not the 65-96.8 degrees that the first couple hundred meters of ocean water usually is). The cations in the salt of ocean water would work against the cesium's reaction, further weakening it - and coupled with the temperature of the water would make it useless.

You've got a useless, expensive torpedo there ;)

A hell of a lot.

This weapon will probably be restricted to use on heavy cruisers and aircraft carriers, since it would cost a lot to do. It can be made by man, you know, so it is possible. I asked my science teacher, he has a PhD btw :D

And every thread you go on you see some guy using nukes for no reason. This would not be too dirty, and it would be used underwater. Its not as bad as nuking a fleet, thats for sure.

Also, this can be made in large quantities, unlike francium which has been made in tiny, tiny quantities.

Also, the reason for the warning at the beginning is because I dont want some person stealing my most important naval technology.

PhD in what, Psychology? Seriously - if he has a degree in general or applied science tell him to go back to school.

To all you idiots argueing sodium and potassium would have more effect:

I remember in science class, we did a little stuff on this.

Lithium had a faint 'explosion'.
Sodium shot into the air and made a noise.
Potassium made a bigger noise and explosion.
Rubidium set the room on fire.
Cessium would have a more violent reaction, but if the environment was such an environment to stimulate those reactions.

Thanks Doujin.

Well, I really hoped this would work. Is there any ways I can make this work, or is it back to the drawing board?

Kazakhstania: I don't think there is a way for it to work.

Unless you could "inject" caesium into a seperate compartment containing cold distilled water as part of the warhead...But I don't know. Just an idea.

You'd need have an amount of distilled water proportionate to the amount of Cs used.

Yep. And I don't know if a torpedo of feasible size would be able to hold a sufficient ratio to make a damaging explosion.

Funny how folks are talking about their "science" classes with Rubidium, as it's a government-restricted substance and even my old community college chem lab couldn't use it (I'm not certain if the university has it any better...).

[/skepticism]

ooc: My high school had a lump of Thorium and other such substances....

If you want a truly revolutionary weapon, one that is substantially more feasible, far more cost-effective, and substantially more deliverable, have a look at the Crimson Star system featured in my previous posts. Licenses for production are negotiable.

But likely to be expensive...

OOC: Well the Mk 48 is a huge torpedo, so it could be possible to release the caesium to the water and for them to react....would it?

And my class saw the experiment on TV, the only thing we used was sodium I think....I forget. Its summer now anwyay :D

OOC: Well the Mk 48 is a huge torpedo, so it could be possible to release the caesium to the water and for them to react....would it?

And my class saw the experiment on TV, the only thing we used was sodium I think....I forget. Its summer now anwyay :D

Cs works(reacts) best with dilluted water at -cold- temperatures. Ocean water isn't -cold- temperatures :P And the salt would work to counter-act the effect of the Cs, although not a great amount.

Nah I mean distilled water in the torp.

Could it work?