NationStates Jolt Archive

I've taken the liberty of creating this thread to settle any disputes. Note, this is a closed RP and that extends to posting in here as well. If you have a salient point to add yet not part of the war, we ask that you do so with discretion. Meaningless chatter will be ignored.

The link to Operation: Hammerfist, Invasion of Dyelli Beybi can be found here (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150153&highlight=)

I said this earlier but I'll say it again for eveyone's benefit. I'd really apreciate it if you kept things modernish tech. I say Modernish, because Dyelli Beybi has a few tanks that are heavier than any in the real world, however they could be built in the modern world with modern technology, they just havn't because there isn't really a need.

I guess this will be the true OOC thread for the war. I guess the forums activated "clone" mode and made multiple copies of this thread. :) Sorry for any confusion.

there's another one? *ponders the question* I just linked her from the IC thread

There was, but hopefully the mods deleted them. Anyhow, this is the thread.

(OOC) Here' some infor for anyone doing background history of Otto Himmler.

Anyone who asks about who Mr Himmler is will politely get refered to the Cheka, where they will meet with a wall of silence unless given a really good reason as to why they are inquiring about the Chancellor's personal history.
Oh yes and the only name that matches on the register of births and deaths for someone of roughly his age says he was born in Cyro in a low income family and died some weeks later from malnutrition. Apart from that as far as records go, Otto Himmler might as well not exist, they'd need to gain access to files held by the Cheka in Benjia house if they wanted to really know what was going on.

give me a T
give me an A
give me a G

What that spell TAG, TAG, TAG!

Cheearleaders are too damn cute for their own good...

http://www.uark.edu/~arsc/images/random/cheerleaders.jpg

GO KLATCH GO! GO KLATCH GO! WHEEEEE!

give me a K
give me a L
Give me a A
Give me a T
Give me a C
Give me a H

I'm dreaming up patriotic cartoons.

OOC: I never got the memo, only a 'no space bombardments'. Also, were talking about fighters that, with pre2050 radars are 100% invisable, Subs with a material that actually focuses sonar through them so that they are relatively invisiable to modern(2015) sonar, supercavitating subs and torpedos, and most explosives are plasma yeild. Soldiers wear assault armor, and carry rifles that fire caseless depleted uranium 6.8mm Rail accelerated rounds. So yeah, even a totall downgrade would put my tech at about 2030 levels. Also, with a pregnancy scare, I think a war kinda takes back burner...considering the girl isnt my girlfriend...

Obviously, real life is more of a priority that NS and I hope things go well in that regard. But, again, if you downgraded your tech (or even if you didn't) what makes you think we can't counter it? There are future tech nations within the Klatch that would be roused to fight if called upon. As well, depending on the scale of the conflict, we do have future tech allies. Whose to say that some won't supply us the necessary arms? And the tech gap isn't that great here, so a well-equipped modern army just may be able to slow you down. It wouldn't be a cakewalk on your side I'm afraid.

As far as "not gettting the memo", did you see the OOC thread listed at the top of page 4?

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150153&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

I apologize for it not being made clear earlier, but Dyelli Beybi would like a "modernish tech" war. We are not unreasonable people, Imitora.

(OOC) And the reason I asked for that is to avoid the bickering when people come up with technologies that are clearly unfeasible to people with a scientific background (that includes a lot of a lot of Klatch). I have worked out an ubertech version of Dyelli Beybi which I intend to jump into at some point in the future, but for now I'd rather stay modern tech if you don't mind.

It makes everything a whole lot easier, everyone can relate to an M1 Abrams, a Mitsubishi Power Turbine or a Mk III III/16" 45c turret. If they can't they can always go onto the internet and look it up, for instance for the Mitsubishi Power Turbine you can fine exactly how much Horse Power it produces, how much fuel it uses per hour, how large it is and how many crew you need to run it. There is much less ambiguity with modern tech, there's no bickering over who's tech is better. Everyone knows.

I understand you have future tech allies, but with most of my even somewhat near modernish systems, your looking at around 2060-2070 levels of technology. And if you bring in your real future tech allies, then I'll bring in all of my future tech military, and use it on all present. I have no problem with using mass orty on anyone, just ask Deazeman (well, you cant anymore, so ask Larkinia) about what I did to Deazeman.

I understand you have future tech allies, but with most of my even somewhat near modernish systems, your looking at around 2060-2070 levels of technology. And if you bring in your real future tech allies, then I'll bring in all of my future tech military, and use it on all present. I have no problem with using mass orty on anyone, just ask Deazeman (well, you cant anymore, so ask Larkinia) about what I did to Deazeman.

Well, when I mean downgrade, why not just use something like an M1 Abrams tank instead of your future tech version? And why does all of this seem to resemble a wrestling match? I'll see you in the squared circle and I'll bring my Andre the Giant Ortillery gun!

Upon the Flagship Arkhangelsk Admiral Guerrero looked over the seas of the SOuthern Klatchian Seas. They were still technically 30 Miles off of the National Boudaries, in International Waters.


How in all that that is blubbery did you manage to sneak your fleet withing thirty damn miles of the FKC coast? We aren't that drunk! We had planes and satellites scouring the ocean.

But this brings us to the never ending circle of "Why should I downgrade, why dont YOU upgrade?" Anyways, I've decided that I will attempt to take part in the invasion, just note that my posts will not be very regular, but I'll do my best to respond to everythign I can. Ill make a post here later describing most of the tech I'll be using as to keep questions to a minimum, and try to get a movement post in tonight. You get the numbers advantage, I get the tech advantage.

The reason you should downgrade and we shouldn't upgrade is because it is traditional that when a defensive Nation puts a request up that it is honoured by anyone who wants to join in. Especially if that person happens to be someone who wasn't involved in the initial events that led up to the situation and who arrives after we've already decided on keeping it to a certain tech level. Had I asked to please stick to Napoleonic tech I would be very displeased if someone decided their squadron of F-22s was invited.

Might I draw your attention to the fact that right at the start there was a rather specific request that nobody use ortillery.

I do not think I am being unreasonable by asking you to stick to what was already agreed upon.

I don't care if you're not using real world tech, just so long as it's feasable under today's current level of technology and provided it obeys the laws of physics.

A completely pointless nitpick propably, ortillery is feasible with a technology of only about decade forward from now. Its really simple, use traditional booster rockets to bring loads of tungsten rods with heat-shields to orbit. After that, ferry up a targeting satellite that simply uses modern positioning tech and modern targeting systems. Then, bring up a satellite to house the tungsten rods and launch them when needed. Ta-daa, an ortillery system that drops down large tungsten rods at few dozen times the speed of sound, and within the limits of modern tech. As a matter of fact, the only problem with this system is that it costs a lot to take stuff to orbit, its possible to ferry all the mass required for this system but it would cost a lot.

I still think that all future tech should be named after wrestlers. Like the Big Show class gravships.

Anyhow, I'm sure we can work this all out with the least amount of complaining.

Actually, I use something similar, or low altitude ottilery by dropping rods of tungstun out of my high altitude bombers.

And as long as things stay present tech then LOW will remain in hibernation...

Upon the Flagship Arkhangelsk Admiral Guerrero looked over the seas of the SOuthern Klatchian Seas. They were still technically 30 Miles off of the National Boudaries, in International Waters.


How in all that that is blubbery did you manage to sneak your fleet withing thirty damn miles of the FKC coast? We aren't that drunk! We had planes and satellites scouring the ocean.
30miles off boundary, not coast. theyre still well out to sea, beyond the edge of FKC waters (i believe dyellis extend for some 200 nautical miles or 380km)

relative to Imitoran tech. we already have supercavitating torpedoes.
SHKVAL 1 & 2
Don't you ever see a need for explosives that don't leave gaping holes where their used to be stuff. shockwaves can sometimes be more useful. That said, they shouldn't prove too annoying.
Assault armour isn't impervious, even to small arms, and would be quite satisfactory as far as i'm concerned: the extra cost factor balances quite nicely, as does maintanace issues if powered. Why do you need to specify caseless rounds for a rail propelled round? no propellant, hence not cased.
rail accelerated rounds aren't too much of a problem either, sure, theyre better performance than chemical, cheaper, weigh less, don't have flash or as directional a sound profile, but you do have to worry about the weapons power supply, and the problems of maintance. (though there isn't moving metal, the power supply circuitry is probably not that indestructable, and servicing access means stuff gets in. also, railguns don't seem to like "barrel" fouling from mud, dust etc. Mine certainly didn't.
Make the subs and planes have some kind of flaw in stealthing (hint: B2 bombers show up on WWII J-band sets, because they were too obsolete too be considered during design work) and you should fit right in.
Just no Ortillery, as we can't do anything significant to stop it, and it does leave quite a mess of a city. (war would be over without any actual combat.)

Upon the Flagship Arkhangelsk Admiral Guerrero looked over the seas of the SOuthern Klatchian Seas. They were still technically 30 Miles off of the National Boudaries, in International Waters.


How in all that that is blubbery did you manage to sneak your fleet withing thirty damn miles of the FKC coast? We aren't that drunk! We had planes and satellites scouring the ocean.
30miles off boundary, not coast. theyre still well out to sea, beyond the edge of FKC waters (i believe dyellis extend for some 200 nautical miles or 380km)

Wait, so 30 miles (I'm assuming nautical) off DB's 200 mile limit? Okay, but I still think it would be possible for someone to pick it up. I should also add that international waters will mean nothing, Tersanctus, since you did declare war on Dyelli Beybi. I mean, do nations declare war and then say they can't be touched because of international waters?

edit: I'd say that if ortillery comes into play then FKC future tech nations should respond. It would be only logical. Here, I mean some kind of uber satellite or spaceship shooting stuff. Tungsten rods from a bomber would be...well...bombing (at least in my mind), since a bomber could be intercepted.

And don't forget that DB is digging in.

Ok, tech I'll be using:

Athena-Ah yes, the ever popular Athena, muchos garacias to Stepen Koonts. However, for those of you who have actually read Fortunes of War, and not just said, everyone else is using it, I will too, you will notice many a difference. Basically, Coonts forgot alot of stuff that could counter Athena. Im not.

Athena Mod I was teh first system, and it basically used a large amount of minuture antennas that would abosrb the radar, and push it out through the airframe, and render the aircraft invisable to radar. However, Coonts didnt figure in frequency switching radars.

Athena Mod I Block 2 figured this in, and regular copper wire was replaced with fiver optics and the processesor speed increased to handle frequency switching radars. With that problem out of the way, Athena Mod II-IV were simply further upgrades that adapted to developing radars throught the world. At the current moment, the Athena in use (Mod VI) is able to apear invisable to most all radars, including frequency switching, LIRDAR, Air Borne Sonar, Multi Band (uses three cordinates to pick up return signals instead of two), and search radars.

Mod IV also introduced a return canceling program that allowed the aircraft using the Athena to operate its search and attack radar without the return of the radar being picked up by enemy fighters using ECM units and looking for the search radars being used.

Mod V turned the Athena into a simple computer chip from the whole computer. It simply plugs into the flight computer of the fighter. It also included an early version of Chamelon, which allows the fighter to send out a return that would disguise it as somethign simple, such as a bird or cloud. However, birds and clouds dont move at Mach 1+. That would be taken care of, as well as many other things, with the current Mod VI.

Mod VI allows the Aircraft using Athena chip to imitate the radar return of anotehr aircraft, specifically an enemy fighter. Mod VI also takes full control of teh aircrafts major systems. This will be explained shortly.

Ares-Ares is the full battle system composing of an E/A-75 Twister, and all its components. Using Ares, the Twister can full control IMBATNET, as well as all teh major IMBATNET weapon systems, including the Satalite Weapons, Megolith System, and PANTHER. The Twister is also heavily armed with jammers, HARM weapons, and a centerline pod that holds a Microwave Weapon. More about the Twister will be explained shortly. It should be known, that the only way to hack into PANTHER, PANTBATNET, and IMBATNET is to either get into the Imitoran located control stations, or to get an Ares equiped Twister. However, with a slef destruct system in case the Twister is shot down, thats alot harder than it sounds.

Posidien-This is the naval equivalent of Athena. It is used with the Virginia VI class attack subs. Posidien is, like Athena, a full system. It consists of a 'Under Water LIRDAR' that allows the submarine to not require the use of a standard, noise tracking sonar. However, it has its downfalls (explained later). Further, it incorporates the use of SAM, or Sonar Absorbent Material. SAM, is really more of a SDM, and when an blast of active sonar hits the sub, the skin absorbs it, and within a second, directs it through and around the submarine. The only way to really pick it up using active sonar is to look VERY carefully at the readout, and notice the minute (and by minute, I dont mean this is something your gonna see just by checking. This is something you need to know about to look for) delay in the return. Sound deadining material is further used to hide the sound created by the submarine, assisting in the ability to hide from passive sonar.

VYPW-The VYPW, or Variable Yeild Plasma Warhead, is the standard warhead on all Imitoran explosive weapons. The user has the ability to adjust the yeild of the explosion created by the weapon.

GhostSkin-Used on all Imitoran Military Vehicles, GhostSkin is an advanced version of the so called 'Smart Skin' that uses electornic skin, if you will, to blend in with the background.

All Imitoran Military Systems that will be used will be explained in my next post.

GhostSkin-Used on all Imitoran Military Vehicles, GhostSkin is an advanced version of the so called 'Smart Skin' that uses electornic skin, if you will, to blend in with the background.

Okay. I'm assuming here "blend" as in visually. The vehicles will still give off heat and make noise.

*Ponders about gravitic sensors*

We will discuss that on the FKC forum. Some of that most certainly isn't modern tech.

DB-Good job, you win the prize.

Vrak-Yeah, but your assuming I didnt take those factors into consideration, either. More will be explained when I do the units post tonight.

Not really. I'm just thinking out loud. After all, there is no foolproof system. Also, I'm still wondering how Tersanctus managed to sneak his fleet ever so close to the Klatch - considering that I had long range recon planes up and certainly DB was looking as well.

edit: would my A-50 recon plane pick up Imitora's launch vehicles zooming in the water at 115 kph? I suppose they would have to know what to look for?

I've started off a sub-plot D.B. Basic idea is that one of your Checka Agents in Port Olympus has an expensive girlfreind and habit.

I'll let you all figure out the result of the CM launch, they are targeting the beach. Basically, they'll over fly the beach and release the virus ontop of the troops digging in, then fly off into a mountain or something.

EDIT: They wouldnt pick up the launch from teh sub, as they dont start to supercavitate right away, but they would probably pick them up as they neared the surface, and were looking at the area of teh ocean where the launch came from.

I have asked time and time again for MODERN tech, which part of that do you fail to understand?

I've started off a sub-plot D.B. Basic idea is that one of your Checka Agents in Port Olympus has an expensive girlfreind and habit.

No not at all, provided she isn't an OMG Cyb0rG |\|inj4

- double post -

Please refrain from further use of future tech.
You have also failed to mention which beach you targeted.

The Active Members of The K.N.S. are invited by Dyelli Beybi to take part in this RP basicly only 3 or 4 members. If you have any promblems please take them up with me or Dyelli Beybi

The IFR is ready.

I've started off a sub-plot D.B. Basic idea is that one of your Checka Agents in Port Olympus has an expensive girlfreind and habit.

No not at all, provided she isn't an OMG Cyb0rG |\|inj4

No...but she's not just simple a hooker with a taste for the finer things in life and willing to f*** for them either.

*B*U*M*P*

I've started off a sub-plot D.B. Basic idea is that one of your Checka Agents in Port Olympus has an expensive girlfreind and habit.

No not at all, provided she isn't an OMG Cyb0rG |\|inj4

No...but she's not just simple a hooker with a taste for the finer things in life and willing to f*** for them either.

Well she's probably come to the right place. The Cheka basically run Dyelli Beybi :P

Most of the time they know more about whats going on than Himmler does.

mr Himmler isn't a nazi, he just has a very unfortunate surname?
and ran as candidate for the National Socialist Workers Party, NSWP, and may well have assumed that name. Nice Try though. :oops:

Relevant To ortillery:
Low altitude ortillery: Why Bother?
you would do more damage with airburst explosives. You need a truly massive drop to inflict more damage, and then the cost grows too phenomonal, and so does aiming and fall lag. (absoloutely no use on a moving target). In flight Reaiming tends to cause massive instability due to resonant yaw if you drop something too fast, thats why bombs drop slowly.
With the same level of technological development I would have gone for EW shielded AI driven Standoff munitions travelling at subsonic speeds (stealthed in the manner of a Slammer CM) released from a Ramjet powered supersonic stealth bomber, possibly cruising at Nonresistance altitude. Warhead would be Plasma yield (of course) and Targetting Data would be Satbased, confirmed by jet overfly.

Oh, and nice Viral :) It reminds me of mustard gas - Blindness, skin damage and lung tissue destruction, but it's continuous until death by asphyxiation occurs. getting into safety after doesn't save you like with a chem agent if symptoms are showing. What vector and contagion profiles are you using? Also, what's the Minload?

Just to be clear, I had 6 long range Beriev A-50 Mainstay up with 2 fighters per plane. We'll say Su-37s since we think that they might be attacked.

As well, I have an entire group (36) Tu-160 bombers armed with anti-ship missiles with fighter escort. Here, about 4 fighters/bomber so a mix of Su-37, MiG 33s, and Yak 141s.

The bombers can carry 12 Kh-55 missiles but I can't tell if there is a big difference between Kh-55 and Kh-65. The Kh-65S is an anti-ship missile so that's what my bombers have. Range is between 300-500 km.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/russia/kh-101.htm

Oh, and nice Viral :) It reminds me of mustard gas - Blindness, skin damage and lung tissue destruction, but it's continuous until death by asphyxiation occurs. getting into safety after doesn't save you like with a chem agent if symptoms are showing. What vector and contagion profiles are you using? Also, what's the Minload?

Excuse me FB, perhaps we're dealing with a different virus here? You are refering to the "Black Obsidian" I assume. Have you forgotten your Pharmacology ALREADY? :wink:
It is advertised to "lyse every cell in the body within three minutes". Now in order to do that it will need to be absorbed, distributed and encode for whatever messenger it uses to activate unspecified ion channels, presumably it would be acting via Chlorine influx channels.
However, for it to reach that claim it would need to be distributed to every cell in the body within 3 minutes. Now I assume absorption happens mainly via the lungs, this means it would be able to travel straight into the blood supply. Crossing to the brain though would present a major problem. A virus is a DNA strand encased within a protein casing. In order to penetrate the blood-brain barrier the 'casing' would have to be highly lypophilic. This would produce immediate problems in the blood stream which is an aqueous environment, now not being an expert on viruses I will assume it will work much in the same mode as a macromolecular drug molecule. It would probably end up being protein bound or cross the blood-brain barrier via endocytosis.
Anyway, leaving the problems associated with distribution behind, having reached it's target, a cell, it would then need to rapidly degrade it's protein casing and be immediately transcribed. However, this is the difficult bit.
If you say someone inhales 1,000 virus molecules, and all reach a cell (an unlikely situation), there is now a problem, the virus would need to replicate extensively and cause lysis all within a period of around 2-3 seconds, either that or the virus would only inflict minimal damage due to having destroyed itself during lysis (ie would do limited damage to the cells in the lung).
Viruses such as malaria also cause cell lysis, at least in red blood cells, however over a much greater time period, giving the virus time to replicate within the host cell and move on.

You'll note though that I've run with it anyway.

Oh and the NSWP aren't Nazis. Their name yells it, but they don't actually follow Nazi policies.

Black Osmosis isnt really a virus. Its more of a chemical based substance that uses nanotech like particles to enter the body, distribute into the blood stream, and from there cause the cells to lyse. I called it a virus becuase the Black Osmosis Virus is more intimidating than the Black Osmosis Chemical Based Substance, and I was tired when I wrote that post.

I have been asked to be an impartial arbiter for this RP by Vrak. Any questions or problems relating to military actions ranging from tactical operations to strategic overview can be brought here.

For all "future" tech ordinance, please be able to provide schematics if requested. (I will accept off-site links).

I look forward to contributing in some small way to what will be an enjoyable RP.

Thank you,

GEC.

Excuse me FB, perhaps we're dealing with a different virus here? You are refering to the "Black Obsidian" I assume. Have you forgotten your Pharmacology ALREADY? :wink:
It is advertised to "lyse every cell in the body within three minutes". Now I assume absorption happens mainly via the lungs, this means it would be able to travel straight into the blood supply.
If you say someone inhales 1,000 virus molecules, and all reach a cell (an unlikely situation), there is now a problem, the virus would need to replicate extensively and cause lysis all within a period of around 2-3 seconds, either that or the virus would only inflict minimal damage due to having destroyed itself during lysis (ie would do limited damage to the cells in the lung).
Viruses such as malaria also cause cell lysis, at least in red blood cells, however over a much greater time period, giving the virus time to replicate within the host cell and move on.

I haven't forgotten any of that, but It doesn't need to be a complicated virus: you'll notice I compared it to mustard gas. It only needs to hit the lung cells. The virus would cause skin burns by lysing any skin cells It reached through pores, then transmitting itself to nearby ones. however, as with all Bio-weapons the Inhaled route would be the major one. It would never lyse the whole body, just enough of the lung to kill. I also assumed the 2-3mins was the viral cycle, not total time to death.

Black Osmosis isnt really a virus. Its more of a chemical based substance that uses nanotech like particles to enter the body, distribute into the blood stream, and from there cause the cells to lyse. I called it a virus becuase the Black Osmosis Virus is more intimidating than the Black Osmosis Chemical Based Substance, and I was tired when I wrote that post.
It suddenly seems a lot less dangerous. If it wastes time getting into the blood stream it can't do as much damage and the minload goes way up. on the plusside, DB's antivirals won't do much.

Well if it isn't a virus it would probably be a fairly unstable free radical, which would degrade over time.

incidentally, most viruses cause cell lysis as a direct consequence of replication. Tey stop fitting in the cell.

incidentally, most viruses cause cell lysis as a direct consequence of replication. Tey stop fitting in the cell.

Yeah but that doesn't occur over a 3 second interval, a virus can't replicate that fast. If it were to cause lysis on that timescale it would need to utilise some form of ion pump. Also most viruses fail to penetrate the dermis so causing skin burns would be fairly unlikely.

Question: What's the Ocean west and south of the Alconan Marches? (See Map Below)

http://www.eng.auburn.edu/users/donatgw/klatch.jpg

- post deleted -

That didn't exactly answer my question...also you appear to be experiencing technical difficulties with that picture (doesn't work on the website either). Might my answer be on your big old hand-drawn maps you guys had on your forums? If so, I'll check...otherwise my question remains (below).

Question: What's the Ocean west and south of the Alconan Marches?

Sorry, I forgot about that problem, that website stops displaying stuff if it gets loaded too frequently :roll:

Here's Soviet Haaregrad's version of the map.

The bit to the South doesn't really have a name, the bit to the West is the North Sea.

http://home.ripway.com/2004-2/68292/thenor...nseas_v0.5b.gif

If you want to look at the handdrawn one it's here

http://eng.auburn.edu/users/donatgw/maps/Klatchdraft.htm

Dyelli Beybi: Might ye mean, this map?

http://home.ripway.com/2004-2/68292/thenorthernseas_v0.5b.gif

And while we're on the subject of maps, thought you all might appreciate the recent rough map of the Nusquam Esse Continent (excluding the numerous islands near and around it, as I have not gotten that far yet). Here it is:

http://www.freewebs.com/unitedemirates/NusquamEsse.jpg

EDIT: (Above Map Link Fixed) I see you were.

yeah thats the one. The one for the emirates isn't loading up.

Should be now...if not you can find it at the bottom of the "Nations" section of the Emirate Website: http://www.freewebs.com/unitedemirates/

WARNING: It's HUGE!

argh not quite as big as our one :wink:

argh not quite as big as our one :wink:

True, but give it time...it isn't finished yet, I still have to add the Lesser Antilles Islands, the Baradossan Islands, and GH says he has some I need to make as well. Then again, you map will in the end emcompass more nations...many many more. Think when I'm done with the islands the Nusquam Esse Map will have a grand total of five (two island nations; being as such, haven't been added yet).

Signed up for RP

Tersanctus, I’m not trying to be a jerk here, but I would like to know how exactly you were able to bring your fleet so close. This is what I’ve been able to determine so far from the two related threads in regards to sequencing of events pertaining to fleet movements and detection. If I made any mistakes, please correct me.

Axis of Evil (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=148808&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

Dyelli Beybi issues “Axis of Evil” speech
[Dyelli Beybi Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:32 am Post subject: Dyelli Beybian Chancellor names 'Axis of Evil']

Tersanctus is annoyed and assembles a fleet
[Tersanctus Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:10 am]

The fleet moves to 3000 nautical miles off the Dyellian coast


Tersanctus
Founded: 15 May 2003
Posts: 1449

Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:13 am Post subject:

EDIT_ D'Oh!! Man I wish I understood how these things worked better!!
3000 Miles off the Dyellian Coast, a large amount of Tersanctan Warships begin to hold positions.
Last edited by Tersanctus on Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total

Hammerfist (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150153&highlight=)

Tersan issues statement “War with Dyelli Beybi”

[Tersanctus Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:21 pm Post subject: Operation:Hammerfist, Invasion of Dyelli Beybi (Closed RP.)]

Fleet then begins to draw closer. Imitora (Tersan’s ally) sends up a satellite. Vrak orders own satellites to pass over Tersan and Drak.

[Imitora Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:42 pm]
[Vrak Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:12 am]

Secret negotiations with Tersanctus, Alcona and Hubris, and Vrak
[Alcona and Hubris Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:52 pm]

I assume the fleet is still moving here. Secret negotiations fail.
[Tersanctus Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:27 am]

Imitora sends up more satellites. Tersan’s ships draw closer.The FKC is on a war footing. DB activates Sahifnik sats to attack Imitora’s satellites. Remmonland defensive posts (A&H) go after Imitora’s sats. Vrak sends up long range recon craft. Vrakian sats now ordered to watch the South Klatchian ocean (most likely invasion route).

[Imitora Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:14 pm]
[Tersanctus Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:30 pm]
[Dyelli Beybi Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:05 pm]
[Alcona and Hubris Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:29 pm]
[Vrak Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:01 pm]

Vrakian bombers head out.
[Vrak Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:11 am]

One (out of 6) Vrakian long range recon craft near Jiggady.
[Vrak Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:18 pm]

Tersan’s fleet about 230 nautical miles off the DB coast.
[Tersanctus Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:10 am]


Now, it seems to me that my satellites and long range craft would have picked up the fleet beforehand. I suppose the only possible fudge here for the long range craft would be what island of Jiggady did the one A-50 reach first, and how far that island is from DB. Here, I refer to two ones nearest Rouge Jiggady.

A-50 specs
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/a50/specs.html

It seems to me that the planes would have detected the fleet – especially since they were patched into the satellite network

Vrak Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:18 pm
-Sir, we are patched into Satscan. JDF protocols initialized.
-Have they turned up anything yet?
-Not yet, sir.

There reason why I didn’t say they didn’t detect anything was that would be like calling the hits if I said they did. But here, I was wondering exactly where Tersan’s fleet was. I would like some input here – since once the fleet would be detected, then my bombers would attack. And this is before Imitora’s sub cruise missile launch.

I should add that I’m not so picky over the exact timing of when someone posts, since I realize real life gets in the way and that the NS timeline runs a bit different that the chronological order of posts. But I’m trying to establish a rough sequence of events here.

And Tagria, whose side are you on?

True, but give it time...it isn't finished yet, I still have to add the Lesser Antilles Islands, the Baradossan Islands, and GH says he has some I need to make as well. Then again, you map will in the end emcompass more nations...many many more. Think when I'm done with the islands the Nusquam Esse Map will have a grand total of five (two island nations; being as such, haven't been added yet).

You need to add cities and terrain detail

Strict OOC:

Some numbers for you as to what is being sent to Dyelli Beybi and SW Benjia and a peek at the Vrakian military. As well, for tanks and artillery, don’t assume all tanks or all artillery. I include AA and AT systems in tank and various types of artillery (including rocket) in artillery. I'm working on exact breakdown...

Basic Organization
4 battalions = 1 regiment
4 regiments = 1 brigade
4 brigades = 1 division
4 divisions = 1 horde

Forces committed

Ground

1 FULL strength Horde group (4 divisions)
combat personnel 110592
support ratio 1:5
support personnel 552960
total personnel 663 552


1 FULL strength Tank Division
combat personnel 27648
support ratio 1:10
support personnel 276480
total personnel 304128

1 FULL strength Artillery Division
combat personnel 27648
support ratio 1:10
support personnel 276480
total personnel 304128


Air

3 FULL strength flippers ground support
6 FULL strength flippers fighter jets
2 FULL strength flippers bombers
10 FULL strength flippers support/transport
[one flipper = 324 craft]

Navy

One projection fleet:

1 Aircraft carrier (Kreml)
1 Battleship (Soyuz III)
2 Cruisers (Kirov)
6 Destroyers [3 Sovremenny; 3 Fregat II Udaloy-II]
6 Frigates Neustrashimy
4 Submarines [2 Sierra class Attack II; 2 Shuka-B Akula class II]

The 2nd and 3rd are coming. The 4th is on standby. The 1st is on training exercises with the Order but can be pulled.

====

Also keep in mind that I haven’t touched my reserves and this is roughly ¼ of my military strength - except for the navy. 1.2% of my population are reserves/militia while 0.8% are active duty.

I think this didnt belong in the IC thread so im posting it here
the following forces are being deployed, But they have been downsized considerably

army
200,000 Infantry
8,000 A.R.C. troopers
20,000 Dracun Elite
100,000 Dracun Slayers(Marines)
1,000 Snipers
20,000 Paratroops
100,000 Support Personel

Navy
6 Eminence Class Battleships
5 Lightning carriers
4 seawolf subs
5 vengence Carriers
10 Leynar Missle Frigates
10 Destroyers

Air Guard
100 D-71s
100 D-Raptors
200 Monsoon Bombers
22 F17s
22 Stealth Bombers

Here are the Dyelli Beybian Naval and Airforce Stats, I'll get the army up asap

Air Force: 560,000 personnel
Fighter Command: 9 Groups. Consisting of:
F-22: 276
Eurofighter Typhoon: 216
Su-47: 12
MiG-31: 276
Dassault Mirage 2000C: 960
MiG-29SMT: 960
Trucks: 2,700
Loading Buggies: 900
Towing Vehicles: 900
Fire Engines: 225
Kubelwagons: 223
NFEV-1: 2

Attack Command: 6 Groups. Consisting of:
Panadia GR4 ‘Tornados’: 600
Dassault Mirage 2000D: 384
Dassault Mirage 2000N: 12
Su-25T8M: 708
Trucks: 1,704
Loading Buggies: 568
Towing Vehicles: 568
Fire Engines: 142
Kubelwagons: 141
NFEV-1: 1

Bomber Command: 2 Groups. Consisting of:
Tu-160: 108
Tu-95MS: 108
Tu-16K: 204
An-124 Transports: 12
Il-76 Transports: 48
C-130J-130 Transports: 36
A310 MRTT Tankers: 84
Trucks: 600
Loading Buggies: 200
Towing Vehicles: 200
Fire Engines: 50
Kubelwagons: 49
NFEV-1: 1

Maritime Command: 2 Groups. Consisting of:
Tu-142 ASW Platforms: 48
A-50 AEW&C: 24
F-4G ‘Wild Weasel’ ECM Aircraft: 72
Sea Harrier FA2: 360
A4-M ‘Skyhawks’: 96
Trucks: 600
Loading Buggies: 200
Towing Vehicles: 200
Fire Engines: 50
Kubelwagons: 49
NFEV-1: 1

1 x 'Lord Fisher' Super Heavy Battleship
4 x 'General vonPaulus' Super Carrier (60 x Tornado, 10 x F22 and 30 x Mirage 2000C)
3 x 'D'Artagnon' Super Carrier (75 x Sea Harrier Mk 2)
2 'Marshall Suvorov' Super Hybrid Carrier Battleship ( 8x F-22, 8 x Haze, 4 x EH01, 10 x HindD, 28 x HindF)
3 x 'Benito Mussolini' Class Battleship
14 x 'Goeben' Battle Cruiser
2 x 'Adolf Eichmann' Fleet Carrier (24 x Sea Harrier Mk 2)
1 x 'Erwin Rommel' Battleship
28 x 'Assaye' Battle Cruiser
1 x 'Vrak' Coastal Protection Ship
28 x 'Seringapatam' Pocket Battleship
56 x 'Altenfiord' Battle Cruiser
66 x 'Admiral Benbow' Armoured Cruiser
56 x 'Hugh O'Neill' Protected Cruiser
20 x 'Prefect' Armoured Cruiser
10 x 'General Sanders' Scout Cruiser
10 x 'Fidel Castro' Destroyer Leader
20 x 'Che Guavera' Scout Cruiser
20 x 'Rorke's Drift' Destroyer
20 x 'Shiloh' Escort
14 x 'Skua' Destroyer Escort
30 x 'Ludwig Ritter von Benedek' Destroyer Escort
50 x 'Comrade Lenin' Motorised Torpedo Boat
20 x 'General Bennigsen' Motorised Patrol Boat
80 x ''Poltava' Motorised Patrol Boat


20 x 'T-Boat' Super Submarine (Attack Role)
20 x 'S-Boat' Super Submarine (Attack Role)
30 x 'R-Boat' Fleet Submarine (Attack Role)
5 x 'K Boat' Super Submarine (Experimental - failed)
5 x 'E-Boat' Super Submarine (Experimental - failed)
20 x 'A-Boat' Super Submarine (Nuclear Capable)

28 x Tankers
14 x Ammunition ressuply vessels
32 x 'General Montgomery' Tank Landers
16 x 'Napoleon Bonaparte' Heavy Troop Transport
4 x Well Ships
20 x 'Flash' Mine Layer
10 x 'Panner' Mine Clearer

Infantry:

Typical Battalions that might be encountered:

Type I
2 companies light regulars
1 company anti-tank
1 company anti-air

Type II
2 companies light regulars
1 company anti-air
1 company light grenade

Type III
1 company light regulars
1 company heavy regulars I
1 company anti-tank
1 company anti-air

Light regulars: Russian 5.45-mm Light Machinegun RPK-74
Light grenade: Russian 40-mm Under-Barrel Grenade Launcher GP-30
Heavy regulars: Russian 5.45-mm Light Machinegun RPK-74, Russian 12.7-mm Heavy Machinegun NSV/NSV-T
Anti-tank: KORNET E ANTI-ARMOUR MISSILE
Anti-air: SA-16 GIMLET

Typical tank battalion:

2 companies tank
1 company anti-air
1 company anti-tank

Tank: either T-80U or T-90
Anti air: different ranges – likely PANTSYR S1 AIR DEFENSE MISSILE/GUN SYSTEM, TUNGUSKA M1 LOW LEVEL AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM, or SA-17 GRIZZLY
Anti tank: SHTURM SELF PROPELLED ANTI-TANK GUIDED MISSILE SYSTEM

Typical Artillery battalion

2 companies artillery
1 company anti-tank
1 company anti-air

Type of artillery company will vary, but could include: 2A36 Giatsint-B (M1976) 152-mm Towed Gun (towed), 2S23 Nona-SVK Self-Propelled Gun-Mortar, TOS-1 Buratino 220mm Multiple Rocket Launcher, 9A52-2 BM-30 Smerch, or URAGAN 9K57 MULTIPLE LAUNCH ROCKET SYSTEM.

With the tank and artillery companies, I do things a little differently. A typical infantry battalion has 432 combat personnel, so I take that number and divide by how many need to crew a piece of equipment. For example, it takes 3 guys to run a tank, so a Vrakian tank battalion has 144 tanks. On the other hand, 4320 logistical personnel are needed to keep them going (combat:support ratio being 1:10) so, for me, the more complicated the equipment the more dudes needed to keep it running.

So, a typical tank battalion will have:
96 tanks
48 anti tank systems
36-48 anti air systems

Also remember that Dyelli Beybi and myself use fairly similar equipment, with all the implications that implies.

edit: man, I spelt "battalion" wrong! :oops:

This is what Dyelli Beybi is throwing in the first 3 waves of it's attack

Wave 1
120 F-22
120 MiG-31
180 Panadia GR4
120 Su-25T8M
60 Tu-160
30 Tu-95MS
48 F-4G

Wave 2
108 Eurofighter Typhoon
120 Dassault Mirage 2000C
120 Panadia GR4
120 Dassault Mirage 2000D
120 Su-25T8M
30 Tu-95MS
48 Tu-16K
48 F-4G

Wave 3
120 Dassault Mirage 2000C
120 MiG-29SM
120 Sea Harrier FA2
36 Tu-16K
48 F-4G

F-4G is a "Wild Weasel" for those of you who aren't familiar with the number, it's an EW plane.

There are also the following in support but not entering the combat
84 A310 MRTT
12 A-50

The organisational structure is usually
4 planes to a Flight
3 Flights to a Squadron
5 Squadrons to a Wing
5 Wings to a Group

NB Not all the groups are full groups in the post detailing the full numbers have a full compliment of planes.

Will join DB first wave:
36 Tu-160 bombers
72 Su-37
36 MiG 29 Fulcrum
36 Yak-141

Will join DB second wave:
36 GA SuperEagles (located in Agua Suncia.)


Will join DB in third wave:
324 MiG 29 Fulcrum
324 Su-37
324 Yak-141
324 Tu-160

Fourth wave:
324 MiG 29 Fulcrum
324 Su-37
324 Tu-160
324 Yak-141

We’ll also send up 4 more A-50 Mainstays and try to refuel the six that are up there, who will help once the enemy fleet is located. Their escort will stay with them for as long as possible. Look at those numbers!

The A310 MRTTs are refueling planes by the way

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mrtt/specs.html

Will join DB in 1st wave:
12 Falcon II Fighters.
I will cnsider myself fortunate if any come back. :)

Can a Tu-160 double as a troop transport?

I honestly don't know...You could probably move cargo, but people might present a problem,

Only if your carrying less than 5 troops. There is a severe absence of pressurized cabin. Could carry cargo, but not that effectively.

You need to add cities and terrain detail

I know, it's going to take forever. I've been doing a lot of work duplicating Qaaaolchoura's original with severe modifications. But, with my busy life I really don't have almost anytime for it at the moment, hence the preliminary simply draft (which even took some a lot of work).

Numberwank

More Numberwanking

(Who's side is this guy on? And, who's side is Tangra on? But anyway....)

OMG THAT'S A HUGE NAVY NUMBERWANK

(You get the idea. No offense intended. And now to my point.)

Skip all-out total war, I'll just keep you guys on your toes mobalizing your uber number armies and bankrupt the FKC.

(Okay, I'm done now.)

You need to add cities and terrain detail

I know, it's going to take forever. I've been doing a lot of work duplicating Qaaaolchoura's original with severe modifications. But, with my busy life I really don't have almost anytime for it at the moment, hence the preliminary simply draft (which even took some a lot of work).

Numberwank

More Numberwanking

(Who's side is this guy on? And, who's side is Tangra on? But anyway....)

OMG THAT'S A HUGE NAVY NUMBERWANK

(You get the idea. No offense intended. And now to my point.)

Skip all-out total war, I'll just keep you guys on your toes mobalizing your uber number armies and bankrupt the FKC.

(Okay, I'm done now.)

Well according to the latest economic calculator Dyelli Beybi had a military budget of

$15,635,489,163,840

And by the way, our combined armed forces is not much bigger than the Soviet Union.

And remember Dyelli Beybi's ships only count as the class they're said to be if ships had remained at the same size they were in WWII.

So for instance a 'Rorke's Drift' Destroyer is a small, not particularly well armed frigate by anyone else's standard.

Excuse me, Drakonia? Numberwank? Are you suggesting that I can't support those numbers? Please explain fully since I do include full logistical support for all my numbers.
You will find that for one of my planes I have a support ratio of 1:25 and then have 5 crews per plane (which, I've been told is quite high). So, one plane (assuming a crew between 1-2) has 5 crews and 125 support for a grand total of 130 personnel per plane. And yes, I can field the numbers.

0.8% are active duty 2.8 billion 80.008 = 22 400 000

minus 30% off the top for logistics (which includes military academies, etc…)

22 400 000 * 0.3 = 6 720 000
22 400 000 - 6720000 = 15 680 000

out of that, only 20% are for the airforce.
15 680 000 * 0.2 = 3 136 000


Out of the airforce: 50% are for combat. 50% are for support (tankers, troop transport, etc...)
3 136 000 * 0.5 = 1 568 000


Out of that: 70% are for fighter jets while the rest are bombers

1 568 000 * 0.7 = 1 097 600
1 568 000 * 0.3 = 470 400

This does not get into the support ratios yet. Now, if I made a mistake in my math, then I have no problem in correcting it. But please, it should be obvious that only a fraction of my military (only 0.8 % active duty) are ever seen in a front line role.

If you have a problem with my numbers, ask Clan Smoke Jaguar and Guiness Extra Cold what they think. I have no problem adjusting some numbers down, but you'll find that I certainly don't "wank" on infantry and naval numbers. In fact, I fail to see how nations much smaller than me (or even roughly the same size) have OMG dozens of carrier groups and literally hundreds of thousands of special ops.

Here's backing up Vrak's comment. Oh and I did a bit of background research on Soviet-era Russia's armed forces.

They had a slightly larger Navy than DB, a larger airforce than DB, a smaller army than DB but with nearly as many combat vehicles.

Bear in mind Soviet Russia wasquite a bit less than half the size of DB and had a much worse economy.

I should add that according to this:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=102191

I'm assuming to have $50 000 since I've had frightening for over a year.

This means:

Total population: 2.7 billion
% in military (include support) = 0.8% (0.008)
% in reserves (include support) = 1.2 (0.012)
Total 2% of population

2 700 000 000 * 0.008 = 21 600 000 military
2 600 000 000 * 0.012 = 32 400 000 reserves
Total: 54 000 000


30% support

21 600 000*0.3=6 480 000
32 400 000*0.3=9 720 000

Military strength:
21 600 000-6 480 000=15 120 000
32 400 000-9 720 000=22 680 000



2.7 billion * 50 000 (frightening econ) = 135 000 000 000 000
10% GDP budget military = 13 500 000 000 000 (13.5 trillion)

Of military budget:
50% Vrak = 6 750 000 000 000
30% JDF = 4 050 000 000 000
20% Order of the Seraphim = 2 700 000 000 000

Budget per active soldier $446 428.57
Budget per total soldier $125 000

I apologize for the "econ numberwank" but since you are asking, I'm justifying it. By the way, this is all strictly OOC. I'm also waiting for Santa Barbara's input here.

edit: I realize that is says 2.7 billion instead of 2.8. I don't feel like going over the numbers because I think my point has been made. As well, I have 2% in the military (0.8 active duty, 1.2% reserves/militia) since I am bordered by 6-7 other naions! And I don't concentrated much on the navy since, well, it's not all that important to me. I do concentrate on land and airforce. Finally, I don't derive any entertainment from posting these numbers. I have more important things to do.

Looking over my numbers again, I may have made a mistake in not adding the combat personnel to the support personnel. So...er...a Tu-160 has 4 combat personnel and 600 support (4 * 30 [support] * 5 crews = 600)

604 total/bomber

470400/604= 778 bombers.

Hmmm. I can bring down my bomber numbers I suppose.

Let's say 126 total personnel for the fighers

(1 * 25 * 5 crews = 125 support. Total 126)

1097600/126 = about 8711 fighers.

Is this better Drak?

I think you're overplaying the support crew, but a Walrus's gotta do what a Walrus's gotta do ;) Especially bombers, on the link I followed before bomber crews are listed along with the guys for nuclear missile silos. If the Russians had 600 guys per bomber they would have ended up with about 1 guy to look after each ICBM.

And you've STILL got more planes than me. For an overall airforce here's a nice example for the DI to compare with,

Russian Airforce (1990)
Active: 920,000
Reserves: 775,000
Combat Aircraft: 6,650
FGA: 2,510
Tac Fighters: 1,825
AVPO Fighters: 2,315
Recce: 530
ECM: 60
Transports: 669
Heavy SAM: 8,650

You will note here the lack of bombers, that is because they are allocated elsewhere. Russia also had

Long Range Bombers: 175
Medium Range Bombers: 390

You will note this is NOT the whole Soviet Union. Other States are listed separately in the document.

Cordesman AH, Western Military Balance and Defence Efforts: A Comparative Study of Military Expenditures; Manpower; Land, Air, Naval and Nuclear Forces, CSIS, Jan 2002

you can get that article in PDF format here http://www.csis.org/burke/mb/WestMB012302.pdf

OKay. I didn't look at the article, but I believe ICBMs are covered under the airforce. I do things a bit differently, since ICBMs and other such special items are put in the "special" category (make of that what you will. :) ) - whose personnel is 10% of the military numbers.

And, DB, I'm using the five crews per plane cuz...you said so before. Remember? :wink:

Anhow, I was told that I could get away with 1 crew/fighter and 2-3 crews/bomber. I might up the fighter crews to two and work on my numbers and then put a cap on the entire airforce. After all, 0.8% is supposed to be peacetime numbers. And I haven't figured out my reserve/militia numbers. They do follow the same formulas.

Finally, I have no problem in adjusting my numbers nor any other form of constructive criticism. After all, I think everyone can learn from someone else. However, one liners simply stating "wank" is not constructive, but borders on pissing me off.

Aparently Soviet Russia had a separate branch for nuclear weapons and such, either that or the author just chose to present it that way. Oh I wasn't criticising your pilot numbers, I just thought you had too many ground crew for the bombers.

Well here you have my long winded comparison between the Military of Dyelli Beybi and Russia (1990). These are both paranoid, belligerent Nations, but I think you will see when you take into account that Dyelli Beybi is over 17x the size of Russia and with a considerably better economy, that Dyelli Beybi has a comparatively insignificant Military (in fact both the Navy and Airforce are smaller than the Russian one)


Airforce Comparison

Fighters - 4140 Russia
2700 Dyelli Beybi
1440 less for Dyelli Beybi

Ground Attack - 2510 Russia
2160 Dyelli Beybi
350 less for Dyelli Beybi

Recce - 530 Russia
- 0 Dyelli Beybi
530 less for Dyelli Beybi

ECM - 60 Russia
- 72 Dyelli Beybi
12 more for Dyelli Beybi

AEW&C - 0 Russia (they have since got a fair number, these are 1990 stats)
- 24 Dyelli Beybi
24 more for Dyelli Beybi

Transports - 669 Russia
- 96 Dyelli Beybi
573 less for Dyelli Beybi

Long Range Bombers - 175 Russia
- 216 Dyelli Beybi
41 more for Dyelli Beybi

Medium Range Bombers - 390 Russia
- 252 Dyelli Beybi
138 less for Dyelli Beybi

Tankers - 0 Russia (possibly listed under transports?)
- 84 Dyelli Beybi
84 more for Dyelli Beybi

Dyelli Beybi has 2,870 less planes and mans no SAM sites with it's airforce (Russia's airforce manned 8,650)

Dyelli Beybi has 360,000 less active personnel.


Naval Comparison

Combat Aircraft - 750 Russia
- 689 Dyelli Beybi
61 less for Dyelli Beybi

Armed Helicopters - 320 Russia
- 100 Dyelli Beybi
220 less for Dyelli Beybi

SSBN - 63 Russia
- 0 Dyelli Beybi
63 less for Dyelli Beybi

SSGN - 46 Russia
- 0 Dyelli Beybi
46 less for Dyelli Beybi

SSN - 70 Russia
- 0 Dyelli Beybi
70 less for Dyelli Beybi

SSG - 14 Russia
- 0 Dyelli Beybi
14 less for Dyelli Beybi

SSB - 0 Russia
- 20 Dyelli Beybi
20 more for Dyelli Beybi

SS - 130 Russia
- 80 Dyelli Beybi
50 less for Dyelli Beybi

Primary Surface Combatants - 227 Russia
- 278 Dyelli Beybi
51 more for Dyelli Beybi

Patrol and Coastal Combatants - 395 Russia
- 261 Dyelli Beybi
134 less for Dyelli Beybi

Mine Warfare - 331 Russia
- 30 Dyelli Beybi
301 less for Dyelli Beybi

Amphibious - 77 Russia
- 36 Dyelli Beybi
41 less for Dyelli Beybi

Support and Miscellaneous - 699 Russia
- 74 Dyelli Beybi
625 less for Dyelli Beybi (we can't project very well)


So, all up Dyelli Beybi has:
281 less aircraft
223 less submarines
1,050 less surface craft


Army Comparrison

Training Tanks - 0 Russia
- 2,000 Dyelli Beybi (these don't have a cannon)
2,000 more for Dyelli Beybi

Light Tanks - 1,000 Russia
- 1,800 Dyelli Beybi
800 more for Dyelli Beybi

Main Battle Tanks - 51,500 Russia
- 70,240 Dyelli Beybi
18,740 more for Dyelli Beybi

Heavy Tanks - 0 Russia
- 6,000 Dyelli Beybi
6,000 more for Dyelli Beybi

Recce - 8,000 Russia
- 3,810 Dyelli Beybi (note there are also 12,840 motor cycles but they hardly count)
4,190 less for Dyelli Beybi

IFVs - 28,000 Russia
- 1,300 Dyelli Beybi
26,700 less for Dyelli Beybi

APCs - 50,000 Russia (estimate)
- 63,774 Dyelli Beybi
13,774 more for Dyelli Beybi

Tank Destroyers/Assault Guns - 0 Russia
- 32,595 Dyelli Beybi
32,595 more for Dyelli Beybi

Combat Armoured Cars - 0 Russia
- 3,000 Dyelli Beybi
3,000 more for Dyelli Beybi

SP Artillery - 9,000 Russia
- 900 Dyelli Beybi
8,100 less for Dyelli Beybi

Towed Artillery - 33,000 Russia
- 17,200 Dyelli Beybi
15,800 less for Dyelli Beybi

MLRS - 8,000 Russia
- 900 Dyelli Beybi
7,100 less for Dyelli Beybi

Flak Vehicles - 1,723 Russia
- 14,884 Dyelli Beybi
13,161 more for Dyelli Beybi

Attack Helicopters - 950 Russia
- 1,800 Dyelli Beybi
750 more for Dyelli Beybi

Transport/GP Helicopters - 2,390 Russia
- 600 Dyelli Beybi
1,790 less for Dyelli Beybi

Fighters/GA - 0 Russia
- 1,284 Dyelli Beybi
1,284 more for Dyelli Beybi

Heavy SAM - 920 Russia
- 3,810 Dyelli Beybi
2,890 more for Dyelli Beybi

Light SAM - 3,050 Russia
- 7,620 Dyelli Beybi
4,570 more for Dyelli Beybi

Active Soldiers - 1,473,000 Russia
- 7,543,000 Dyelli Beybi
6,070,000 more for Dyelli Beybi

Reserves - 3,000,000 Russia
- 0 Dyelli Beybi
3,000,000 more for Russia

Oh I wasn't criticising your pilot numbers, I just thought you had too many ground crew for the bombers.

Yeah, I may bring the number of flight crews per aircraft (and for that matter ground support such as helicopters, A-10s etc...) down. I also haven't actually figured out equipment for my reserves, but since they are reserves I'll most likely make them have older stuff. I also just may put a cap on the amount of aircraft for total numbers and put more in the navy, ground, and special systems.

I wonder if I’m not making this more complicated than it needs to be. This is how I’ve been figuring out my airforce.

Most fighers usually only have one pilot. Some have 2, but for my calculations I will assume 2 pilots can be equally served with the same amount of support as one can. For bombers, I haven’t seen any with more than a crew of 4 (even the B-52H STRATOFORTRESS only has 4). So, I will use 4 as an average.

Now, I reduced my number of crews per aircraft. 2 crews/fighter jet and 3/bomber. 3 crews/support planes (like transport) will also be used.

The support ratio for fighters is 1:25 and bombers is 1:30. This is where it gets a little tricky. I multiple the support ratio by the number of crews and number of aircraft. In other words, a single fighter jet has 2 combat personnel and 50 support personnel, for a grand total of 52 total personnel.

Combat personnel = number of aircraft * number of fighter or bomber personnel/crew * number of crews
Support personnel = number of aircraft * number of crews * support ratio
Total personnel = combat personnel + support personnel

One fighter
Combat personnel = 2 (1 * 1 * 2 crews)
Support personnel = 50 (1 jet * 2 crews * 25 [support ratio = 1:25])
Total personnel = 52 (50+2)

One bomber
Combat personnel = 12 (1 * 4 * 3 crews)
Support personnel = 90 (1 * 3 * 30)
Total personnel = 102

So, a flipper has 324 planes. A fighter flipper has a total personnel number of 16,848 total personnel (648 combat + 16200 support). A bomber flipper has a total personnel number of 33048 (3888 combat [324*3 crews * 4/crew] + 29160 support). In other words, my hometown can support 324 bombers.

What does this mean? Well, it seems that I can support a buttload of aircraft. In fact, by a mere revision of the number of crew numbers makes the total craft available sky rocket to nearly wanking levels. In fairness, I haven’t melded this perfectly to a GDP calculator but I did show some earlier economic numbers. Looking again at my economic wank, I may have made a mistake.

2.7 billion * 50 000 (frightening econ) = 135 000 000 000 000 or 135 trillion bucks
10% of that = 13.5 trillion. Now, does all that go into my military? Probably only 10% of my budget does. My total governmental budget is 13.5 trillion, NOT my military budget. So that leaves me with a military budget of 1.35 trillion.

In comparison, the USA spent about 466 billion in military expeditures. I’m about 3 times bigger than the USA in terms of spending yet dwarf them in population and economic might.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm

If I use this calculator, I can get a a bit more.

http://www.thirdgeek.com/nseconomy.php?region=the_federated_klatchian_coast&nation=vrak

Government Expenditures:
$18,547,113,957,120.00
And say 10% of that goes for the military: 1.9 trillion. Not bad. I realize that these totals fluctuate because the population goes up and tax rates change. But 1.9 trillion seems like a good number.

But the aircraft numbers seem wanky. Let’s see…

Out of that: 70% are for fighter jets while the rest are bombers

1 568 000 * 0.7 = 1 097 600
1 568 000 * 0.3 = 470 400

1097600/16848 (fighter) = 66 flippers
66 * 324 = 21384 fighters

470400/33048 (bomber) = 14 flippers
14 * 324 = 4536 bombers

Holy smokes! I’ll most likely cap the numbers here. As well, now that I wasted a bunch of time on this, it’s time to get back to work.

Seems pretty close.

11097600/52 = 21107 fighters
470400/102 = 4611 bombers

I wonder if I’m not making this more complicated than it needs to be. This is how I’ve been figuring out my airforce.

Most fighers usually only have one pilot. Some have 2, but for my calculations I will assume 2 pilots can be equally served with the same amount of support as one can.

Without a doubt. You're maintaining the plane not the crew :wink:

MiG-31s are 2 man, I was going to ditch them, but having two men in a fighter is just so useful.

I wonder if I’m not making this more complicated than it needs to be. This is how I’ve been figuring out my airforce.

Most fighers usually only have one pilot. Some have 2, but for my calculations I will assume 2 pilots can be equally served with the same amount of support as one can.

Without a doubt. You're maintaining the plane not the crew :wink:

MiG-31s are 2 man, I was going to ditch them, but having two men in a fighter is just so useful.

Still, I think I have to reduce it. If I say 25 men/fighter and 30/bomber, then my numbers wiil skyrocket more! Ack!

In the interests of wrapping this up, the FKC (Alcona's idea) proposes that a big typhoon hit the area, screwing everyone up. A truce doesn't make any sense since we have literally hundreds of planes up in the air ready to defend our lands.

I'll reprint this from our forums:

Concept: The present weather sats of the southern Klatchia were in poor shape after the dozle war. Most relayed their info through a third sat which D.B. just accidently knocked out in an apparent self defense.

So when a weak tropical depression moves into the "dark spot" rather than weakining, it gathers speed and momentum and comes out as a Class 5 Typhoon moving at 12 knots on line for the Squall Straits.

My (Alcona)/Vrak/JDF Navy tries to scramble back north but the storm throws our forces and the remaining enemy foces together in a horrific three way battle against each other and the sea, the thing devolves into a ship/ship action.

I'd also say your (DB and Vraki) bombers get a nice hit on the enemy but either are shot down or plastered by the Typhoon...end result...no one knows if the ships lost were due to enemy fire or a really pissed off mother nature.

Even if the enemy didn't lose a ship they would have to limp home to make repairs because of the weather...

What say you, Tersanctus and Imitora?

I really dont care, its up to Tersan. I was pulling mostly defense in this anyways till Tersan secured the beaches so that I would be using my future tech on yall. I dont have any ships in the area, so its up to Tersan if he wants to go with the typhoon. After all, I have actuall forces assisting Eugenicai with genetic cleansing. So it up to him.

well to be honest we were planning to go ahead anyway if he doesn't respond within a day or two.

It has now been 13 days since he last was seen on the forum...since tommorrow I will unlikley be able to post I have begun the end of this thread by Typhoon Tabitha...

Really I don't think he's avoiding us NS but something has come up RL...