NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php?nation=IDF&defenseprovided=1&defense=10
I think 25% is fair right?

OOC: Only if you are in a permament state of warfare. In normality you would expect 15% maximum if you dont want to endure a significant economic collapse because too much of you industry is producing weapons.

I'm in at least 1 war at a time (lots of people hate you if your Jewish)

Our nation has it as 20%, since we are engaged in several conflicts, and are militarisitc.

dont give me that bullshit IDF

I'm in at least 1 war at a time (lots of people hate you if your Jewish)

My budget was at 40%... I was usually in multiple wars because lots of people hate Fascist white-only states... I can relate to the hatred you receive... FWS receives hatred by the ton...

I read in my AP history book that from 1949-1974 US military budget 40% During those years there was great economic growth with the exception of 1958-1959 recession. The economy collapsed as soon as funding ended. There was stagflation

The economy did not get out of the state of stagflation (both unemployment and inflation rising) until Reagan boosted defense to 55% of total budget. Again when it was 1st cut at the end of the Cold War by George H W Bush, the economy went into recession.

High budget above 25% = great economic times

What a coincidental question, as I just made something today to help with this. It does involve knowing some information though - mostly what your UN rankings are in various areas. If you don't know you can guess of course, but it's not as accurate. Here it is - you will need Excel until I talk someone into doing it in PHP:

Budget Breakdown Calculator

www.pacifier.com/~cziller/excel/budgetbreakdown.xls

Or use the link at the top of this if it won't open...

www.pacifier.com/~cziller/mars.html

With this information and a budget number from your calculator of choice you can make a good go at generating some reasonable numbers.

OOC:

Aye. Well, like I said, military industrial capacity takes away fromc ivilian capcity, which is where the actual money and economic growth takes place. Although 25% is sustainable in the short-medium term, it will be damaging in the longer economic period.

dont give me that bullshit IDF

what BS? check my post history and see how many groups or nations like Eastrive, greece and cyprus, muslim militants, etc attack me for being jewish

OOC:

Aye. Well, like I said, military industrial capacity takes away fromc ivilian capcity, which is where the actual money and economic growth takes place. Although 25% is sustainable in the short-medium term, it will be damaging in the longer economic period.

US did it for 25 straight years and only went down the chutes when it stopped

OOC: I've got about 20-30% of my budget going into the military at any one time. My nation is highly militaristic due to our being invaded at several points in our history. Also, military orders can, in the short term, be very beneficial to a sagging economy. A quick war often helps the economy (if its a total war. Peacekeeping operations don't count unless you need to produce lots of guns for the peacekeepers.)

What a coincidental question, as I just made something today to help with this. It does involve knowing some information though - mostly what your UN rankings are in various areas. If you don't know you can guess of course, but it's not as accurate. Here it is - you will need Excel until I talk someone into doing it in PHP:

Budget Breakdown Calculator

www.pacifier.com/~cziller/excel/budgetbreakdown.xls

Or use the link at the top of this if it won't open...

www.pacifier.com/~cziller/mars.html

With this information and a budget number from your calculator of choice you can make a good go at generating some reasonable numbers.

that is the greatest thing I've seen yet so I'm 20.13% then instead of 25%. I guess I was close in my guess

Since you seem to be the Israel equivelant in NS, IDF, I'd say that is sustainable. Remember: Israel has 6,116,533 people (in July 2002, according to the CIA world factbook), yet it's military has about 136,000 active troops and about 494,000 people in the reserves-about 10% of the Israeli population, way over the 5% rule. They also have 4,000 tanks, 11,000 armored vehicles, many modern weapons, and defeating foes many, many, many, times thier size. Israel if a nation would be godmodding.

http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php?nation=IDF&defenseprovided=1&defense=10
I think 25% is fair right?
That's fair only if you are at war. Your peace time defense spending would be more like 10 to 15% maximum.

Since you seem to be the Israel equivelant in NS, IDF, I'd say that is sustainable. Remember: Israel has 6,116,533 people (in July 2002, according to the CIA world factbook), yet it's military has about 136,000 active troops and about 494,000 people in the reserves-about 10% of the Israeli population, way over the 5% rule. They also have 4,000 tanks, 11,000 armored vehicles, many modern weapons, and defeating foes many, many, many, times thier size. Israel if a nation would be godmodding.
I thought you both were.

Since you seem to be the Israel equivelant in NS, IDF, I'd say that is sustainable. Remember: Israel has 6,116,533 people (in July 2002, according to the CIA world factbook), yet it's military has about 136,000 active troops and about 494,000 people in the reserves-about 10% of the Israeli population, way over the 5% rule. They also have 4,000 tanks, 11,000 armored vehicles, many modern weapons, and defeating foes many, many, many, times thier size. Israel if a nation would be godmodding.
I thought you both were.

well since I have almost 400 million my army is about 3% total

I use 21 per cent, it's more than lagre enough to cover my "peace-time" expenses and does fairly well during wars. Then again peace-time includes putting down rebellions, exploration, and the construction of any number of space-ships.

I thought you both were.

Prove it, He Who Was Founded June 2nd. My army doesnt even constitute an entire percent of my population...

Israel has compulsory military service and compulsory reservist status for a number of years after you complete that service. In theory, around 40% of the population could pick up a gun, put on a uniform and fight.

In practice, of course, that wouldn't happen but it is a good demonstration of how real world situations and NS vary. Yeah, Israel would be 'Godmodding' its military...but it's an embattled state and it gets a certain amount of outside help. If Israel were to press its military as often as some NS players do, the economy would die horribly gurgling in a ditch.

About 5% of your GDP is good to spend on the armed forces.

3-8% of GDP, depending on the nation, is usually a good percentage for defense budgets.

Now, as for percentage of the actual budget, it really depends on what the government's priorities are. A welfare-state, for instance, could not support more than 10% of its annual budget on defense due to the costliness of a nanny-state. A totally federalized government, whose only real task is defense of the nation and conducting its affairs abroad, could spend 50% or more of a smaller budget on defense.

Percentage of GDP is the better measuring stick for spending sanity than budget percentages due to the differing priorities of governments.

Here's something -

I looked up the UK Treasury information for the 2002 Budget and looked at where the country was spending its money:

Law and Protective Services
Education
Defence
Industry, agriculture, employment
Social Protection
Housing and Environment
Health Service
Transport
Debt interest and personal social services
Other

I have no idea what 'other' is.

Here's how I calculated my budget before I discovered GDP calcs.

Population x 45 to 55% gives you your Tax payers.
Tax Payers x wage x tax rate gives you your total fund, and you split this as a percentage between the above list of things to spend on. You assign the highest values to what Nation States tells you the top three budget items are, and spread the rest around.

I threw all of that into an Excel spreadsheet and it gives an answer that's pretty close to what the GDP calcs tell me, so I still use the sheet as a rough guide. It gives me a Defense budget of around 16%, which is healthy enough.

The US, UK and most other Western countries spend about 2.5% of their GDP on defence, but in the cold war it was over 5%. you could use a much higher value, although anything higher than about 5% will start hurting homeland policies eg. Education, Social Welfare etc.

When you have a nation with big government, they can't afford to spend much money on the military, especially since they have other things to do. Small governments that let the people pretty much take care of everything and tax the people to death can spend much more on defense since they have alot of tax money and don't have to spend it on health care and the like.

I have no welfare. I'm strictly a Reagan conservative here.

Also, Israel has women in the military

From http://www.cdi.org/budget/2004/discretionary.cfm :

http://www.cdi.org/budget/2004/discretionary.jpg

This is the US budget, in case you wondered

I plotted out a formula to allow for the military to maintain approx. 40-50% of the budget going into the military(not all being spent every year of course.) Basically has no welfare, no healtcare(except for government employees), or social services. The only thing the government concerns itself with is Law and Order, Public Education using the model each student has 10-12 thousand a year spent on education. Gifted students are however given government scholarships to private schools in exchange for future service to the government, mainly given to students who are believed to be good engineers or scientists.
To keep the cost of road construction and such Belem gives the unemployed those jobs temporarily at minimum wage until they can reenter the primary workforce.
No such thing as social security though some government positions do offer pensions at the end.
Whatever left over is ussually given to corporations or cashed away for later years.
I worked out my budget using a multiplier effect for the economy and I actualy had a 5-10% surplus every yearwhich can then returned as a tax break or given to corporations to encourage growth.

From http://www.cdi.org/budget/2004/discretionary.cfm :

http://www.cdi.org/budget/2004/discretionary.jpg

This is the US budget, in case you wondered

OOC: doesnt have benefits paid out those are I believe somewhere between 700 billion to 1.3 trillion

It would still put the military budget somewhere between 20% to 40% of the total budget. I should total it up and get exact figures...

Its between 25% to 30% now I believe.