NationStates Jolt Archive

The Imperium already has a LIDAR unit in its Pirahna MkIISS supercav torpedoes. Recognizing the advantages of having LIDAR replacing radar in missile seeker heads as well as air and ground-based radars, it has been decided to begin full-scale developement of LIDAR technology for the military.

Advantages
*Almost nothing in the modern world has LIDAR detection ability, which makes any missile launches completely passive
*Lasers, especially as detection and guidance units, are extremely difficult to jam

Short Term Goals
*Replacement of all missile seeker heads
*Replacement of short and medium-ranged radars

Long Term Goals
*Replacement of ground-based long-range radars
*Replacement of sonar in naval vessels


It is expected that working prototypes for all of the Short Term Goal items will be ready in 7-8 years with deployable items in 10 years. Double to triple that for the long term items.

Scandinavian States,

Will LIDAR have any application in the civilian world? We are interested in knowing.

Regards,

Skyee Denver
Director of Foreign Affairs
Commonwealth of Tarqys

The Aequatian Republic is interested in the use of LIDAR in our own munitions and detection equipment. Would you be willing to sell the developments which you have made so far in this field to us or allow us to join in the development with the Scandinavian States?

http://home.graffiti.net/bomfy:graffiti.net/General-in-Chief.jpg
Chief General Jason Taylor
Federal Republic of Aequatio

Targys: LIDAR can be developed to replace anything radar does, so probably.

Aequatio: We are afraid that this is not possible. Please understand that our refusal is not out of any national malice but our standard practice of not selling advanced technologies or allowing other nations to posses them.

Scandavian States,

What was meant by our question was: Will you be applying this new LIDAR technology to civilian uses? If not, we would be interested in buying the rights to a civilian counterpart for our High Flight Corporation (http://www.geocities.com/tarqys/High_Flight.html), for use in civilian transports.

Please comment at your earliest convienence,

Sergio Valencia
Director of High Flight
Commonwealth of Tarqys

No, we will not be developing civilian LIDAR technologies, and no we will not sale LIDAR tech for that use.

LIDAR in supercavitational weapons and vehicles? I fail to see the point of this. Once the laser penetrates the supercavitational bubble, it will no longer work properly. So unless monitoring the presence of exactly nothing inside the bubble is of crucial importance in your views, this is really a useless innovation.

-Jim McGrath, Chief Production Officer, Great Matean Industries

[Really now? You should read up on supercav torpedoes. It's actually SONAR that won't work for shit with supercav torps.]

[Really now? You should read up on supercav torpedoes. It's actually SONAR that won't work for shit with supercav torps.]

OOC:

I'm quite aware of how supercavitational vehicles work. Yes, they travel in a pocket of air, but they are surrounded by water. A laser is focused light. Once the laser penetrates the bubble of air surrounding the vehicle, it will be refracted by the water, making it effectively useless. Sonar is equally useless. Sound would not only be drowned out by the noise the torpedo is making, but the sound would lose a great deal of its power in the transfer from water to the air in the supercav bubble. Even if you were to place a monitoring device outside of the bubble, the noise of the torpedo would still drown everything else out.

Your lidar is very similar to our struggling technology of tracking incoming radar waves. Perhaps we could have our scientists settle down and have a think tank on these subjects? Shmorgasborg is devoting most R&D to radar and advanced radar technologies, so we are doing everything we can to learn about it.

Your lidar is very similar to our struggling technology of tracking incoming radar waves. Perhaps we could have our scientists settle down and have a think tank on these subjects? Shmorgasborg is devoting most R&D to radar and advanced radar technologies, so we are doing everything we can to learn about it.

[Well then, I guess the US supercav torpedo project is doomed to fail, isn't it?</rhetorical></sarcastic> Do read up on the US project, you'll be enlightened.]



OOC:

I'm quite aware of how supercavitational vehicles work. Yes, they travel in a pocket of air, but they are surrounded by water. A laser is focused light. Once the laser penetrates the bubble of air surrounding the vehicle, it will be refracted by the water, making it effectively useless. Sonar is equally useless. Sound would not only be drowned out by the noise the torpedo is making, but the sound would lose a great deal of its power in the transfer from water to the air in the supercav bubble. Even if you were to place a monitoring device outside of the bubble, the noise of the torpedo would still drown everything else out.

To the public at large: We will not be entertaining any joint developement projects or purchasing offers. Our work in this technology is highly classified and we are not prone to allowing others to just purchase such work or even see the resulting prototypes.

[Well then, I guess the US supercav torpedo project is doomed to fail, isn't it?</rhetorical></sarcastic> Do read up on the US project, you'll be enlightened.]



OOC:

I'm quite aware of how supercavitational vehicles work. Yes, they travel in a pocket of air, but they are surrounded by water. A laser is focused light. Once the laser penetrates the bubble of air surrounding the vehicle, it will be refracted by the water, making it effectively useless. Sonar is equally useless. Sound would not only be drowned out by the noise the torpedo is making, but the sound would lose a great deal of its power in the transfer from water to the air in the supercav bubble. Even if you were to place a monitoring device outside of the bubble, the noise of the torpedo would still drown everything else out.

OOC:

Already read several articles on it, including the recent article in Popular Science, so you can quit the superior tone and take some constructive criticism, you arrogant fool. The current US development team isn't sure what they're going to develop a homing system for the torpedo, and they're also unsure of a fool-proof way to stretch the supercavitational bubble while the torpedo turns (most likely solution is a second series of gas releasers on each side that will engage when the torpedo enters a turn). But LIDAR would not work, period. It's common knowledge that water refracts and reflects light. LIDAR uses a low power laser. Lasers are light. Therefore, the LIDAR would only work properly inside the supercav bubble itself.

Watch who you try to talk down to next time.

Okay SS, one question, Ive been looking at LIDAR and several ways of employing it and although it is an effective rangefinder, I can't see how you are going to get beyond the horizon capability (ie, the laser cannot pass through solid ground) without deploying an AWACs aircraft with every LIDAR equipped-unit?

[GM: Then please explain to me why the fuck the US is wasting the time looking into LIDAR as a guidance system for its torpedoes? And I don't recall asking for constructive criticism and until such time that you can prove that the scientists in the supercav program have determined that LIDAR is indeed impossible for supercav torps, It isn't likely that I'm going to listen to you.

Freethinker: It's my understanding that LIDAR can achieve over-the-horizon by reflecting the light off the atmosphere. Of course, this is only a developement stage and I never really intended to deploy this for long-range ground and sea systems. And yes, I'll be acquiring AWACS aircraft with LIDAR, which will be one of several detection and guidance systems used for that aircraft.]

OOC:

I hate to tell you, SS, but Great Mateo is right. Light has serious troubles changing mediums. Also, any underwater laser would have a short range. While IC Feline has cutting lasers fitted to its submarines, they only work with a few hundred meters, on slow moving vessels. We have supercav torpedos IC, but due to the guidence issues, we typically use normal waterjets on them.

Your best bet would be to invent as an IC technology some special way to make the supercav bubble of air not go around the very tip of the torpedo, and have the LIDAR go out through there. That would have short range, so an even better bet would probaly be to find some way to extend the supercav bubble out over a large area.

IC: The Feline Navy uses LIDAR as part of its sophisticated sensor suites, but short underwater range leads SONAR and RADAR to be the primary method of choice. For above-water sensing, it is still part of the sensor suites, but typically RADAR is used to find an object, and LIDAR is used to get more details, and Quantum Pingers are use to get even more.

If the Scandanavian States wishes to at some point in the future, the Feline Military would be interested a technology exchange related to sensor technologies.

[You'll have to ask New Empire for the torp design, since he's the one I commissioned it from, but I believe he came up with a way to make the LIDAR work. It's also my understanding that certain laser frequencies work better than others in certain mediums, which determines what ranges are achievable.]