NationStates Jolt Archive

im writeing up Unoffical rules to space combat (and more soon) and i would want the NS people to tell me what they think should go into it.

tell me what you think i dont care if your a Modarn nation or space i want to know what you think cos with out your imput whats the point.

P.S.
if this is in the wrong place then you can bit** slap me

No uber weapons that magically desolate entire systems.Be sure yuo add that.Or else..I'll..uhh..do..something..

I think these rules should have the following:

how powerful each odd weapon system is (lasers vs. ion cannons vs plasma guns etc. etc.) preferably in armor piercing.

acceptable ship sizes

accepting the fact that, being in the future, a ship in space would be like a ship of today (warship) in cost-you wont just get the money

rules on odd, made up alloys/elements/etc. for armor

I'd say that unless you've got an incredibly high population, you should limit yourself to about 10-20 planets. It seems to me that if you have much more than that, you have almost no people on ecah on. Assuming earth normal, of course.

I may not be a space nation, but hey.

They shouldn't be able to hyperspace (or whatever) instantly. It would take time.

Rule One: This is freeform roleplay and you can RP anything you want.

Rule Two: While it is "Freeform Roleplay" you have to remember that other people my not want to bother with any old crap you use, so to balance it out they can ignore things as they want.

Rule Three: Use some common sense and work with others involved with your space battle to assure everything goes as smoothly as possible.

Rule Four: No Running.


These also double up as rules for all conflicts.

Iuthia you got some good points there, so do the others but instant Traval can be done tho i think it should be limited. but thats up to any Space Nations that feel that way and decide to enforce that rule (like no nukes for any nation under 1 month old)

Im a future tech nation. My biggest ship is my Galor-class warship, it is 372 meters in length

Tag, and my FTL tech, while fast, requires the ship to be outside of a system's gravity well, usually about 10 light hours out from the primary.

Iuthia's rules are good; anything specific, however, is impracticle given the absurd diversity involved amoung space nations.

That said, I would like to see people paying more attention to interplanetary distances during combat, as well as specifying distances. I doubt this will happen, however, as most people don't seem to understand the proper scale, and/or are exceeding vauge in this respect. It makes it impossible to RP range-related concerns during combat.

Iuthia you got some good points there, so do the others but instant Traval can be done tho i think it should be limited. but thats up to any Space Nations that feel that way and decide to enforce that rule (like no nukes for any nation under 1 month old)

The "no nukes rule" is an unofficial rule like all others in this thread and many others... while I can see the point in such rules I personally see them as "guidelines" due to the nature of Freeform RP... nations can RP what they like but they should be aware that RPing things that are unfair and/or unrealistic then they won't have many people who want to play with them.

We can make up stupid crap about our nations (and often do) a good example of this would be nation like Rave Shentavo who make up incredably powerful characters and RP their nations however they like, she knows she can't RP with nations who like wars and realistic battles but in the end they don't want to RP with them so it's ok and their RP is pretty good providing they don't force their ideas on others... and Rave certainly doesn't (IMO)...

So do things how you like, but the more insane your RP the less people who will want to RP with you...

well guideline what ever as long as poeple read it and all nations have put a view forwards at lest they would know what other people might find a bit far fetched and whats not.
im not saying people will have to follow the rules im just doing it as well if people did follow them people wont be "my fleet jumps in your weapons do little damage to me and i destroy you" or soming like that.

Pardonme, but do any of you find the system I plan to use for ftl too much? The faster ships of mine range around 1,516 times the speed of light.

I think cloaks should be allowed, I believe in firing while cloaked also. I will take anything in Star trek or Star Wars minus any planet killers like Genesis, Thalaron, or Death Stars.

I have Scimitar class ships without the Thalaron and with added Scorpion fighters and weapon systems.

I believe in basic phasers, disruptors, and various torpedo or missiles.

Nukes should be allowed in ship to ship combat, after all photon torpedoes are more powerful than thermonuclear weapons. The one time used in battle, the atomic weapon did only minimal damage to Enterprise. The shields held back the blase, but the radiation killed a red shirt.

Im a future tech nation. My biggest ship is my Galor-class warship, it is 372 meters in length

I'm the person who has the space nation Capt. James T Kirk, my Scimitar will kill your evil Galors and crush your dominion (Just joking, I don't need a war now)

i my slef find that Fireing Cloaked is Godmodish but it depends on the person who is running the RP if i was to use something like that i would ask. cloak i dont find a godmod as well as long as you can be spoted it at lest it has a weakness.

A lot of my comments are already listed in this thread:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68977&highlight=

TEO

what i really want is what you people would find a Godmod e.g. do u find fireing when cloaked a Godmod or do you find that being able to build a single ship the size of a small planet is a godmod.
i also want to know what you think on Combat it self what you think sould be allowed what u think shouldnt etc etc.

i my slef find that Fireing Cloaked is Godmodish but it depends on the person who is running the RP if i was to use something like that i would ask. cloak i dont find a godmod as well as long as you can be spoted it at lest it has a weakness.

I believe in no shields while cloaked and limited firing (that means you can't fire all your phasers or you can use only torpedoes) I use cloak only for surprise, after the 1st barrage, I decloak to put power to shields since it isn't hard to find a cloaked ship if you know there is one there, the whole idea is you fire before they know you are there.

I don't think Genesis was really a planet killer weapon. Just don't be around when the wave passes is all.

My postulate is realism. Now, before slamming me with a whole bunch of bunk that "Obviously realism concerning space nations is an oxymoron," hear me out.

Considering weapons development in the past 100, years, I don't think system killing weapons are out of fetch. According to some space techers, they are pretty much the space-age nuke. I don't see anything wrong with normal or conventional weapons being able to shatter continents. If you accept Star Trek, you might as well accept that. The first episode establishes that the Enterprise lasers had enough firepower to quote; "Crack half a continent."

FTL drive... I dunno. I think it ought to take time, whatever method you choose. With drive systems, it would take transit time. With wormholes, it would take time to generate the wormhole. So I agree with that vehemently.

I do agree with cloaking, and even fire while cloaked. However, a bit of a roleplay approach: I do not agree with "the perfect cloak" seen on Nemesis. Using a modern equivalent, stealth bombers are even slightly detectable on radar. My ships... have kind of a "coat" of "cold plasma" that absorbs most invisible energy types, meaning they are still visible (based on real life technology that is under research).

What I don't agree with is these little fruitcakes that say their armor is the quantum crap from Star Wars or the Neutronium crap from Star Trek. That's a load of rubbish, and anyone who tries to claim their ships are indestructible is met by the omnipotent and always accurate IGNORE the IGNORAMUS.

Well.... that's my thoughts.

I don't think Genesis was really a planet killer weapon. Just don't be around when the wave passes is all.

It wasn't intended for that, but it can be used to kill planets as Khan wished to do.

Space Combat
well this is always tricky well really right before it starts you should say what is allowed and what is not or else it will end up in a fight and you ignoring someone.
A good idea i to decide what allowed and whats not, now its onto your deployment now most people will say “my FTL is instant” well my answer to that is “prove it” and normally they walk of sulking. Most people who have FTL that is normally will give you a reason on how and why then u can do one of 2 things ignore them or carry on (what i normally do).
Space combat is in my eyes is harder then normal combat as its more like a turn based you will do a set of move and fire the other person will do the same infact ive seen some fights be a page or 2 long and that was just one combat in one place tho it was a big battle. A good rper will take good a good amount of loses and sometimes say that some of there ships have damage to minor systems but its really up to you.

Shields are a hard thing really, as there like an extra bit of armor hell when i first went space i didn't have shields i just made my own Armour gave it it Advantages and such. You can make your own shields or take ones from other TV programs or games you've played or seen but its up to you. Just remember just because you have shields don't make you impossible to destroy.

Super Weapons are nice but don't over do it just because you can destroy a sun don't mean you can do it all the time. Becarful what you use and try and use it right and don't abuse it.

Fighters are simple really design them right and you got a good fighter make it silly and you will have people firing the scary ignore cannon at you.

FTLi are useful (faster then light inhibitors) but you have to take in account that peoples FTL might not be effected. Ask what there FTL drive is before saying you can stop it.

Cloak is something you have to be careful with firing cloaked in my eyes is a god mod but its up to the person who made the RP so ASK them before you use it.

Remember a simple thing ask and don't make something that has no weakness or disadvantages.

Making your own tech
well you want to make your own tech well a simple thing to do is maby look on the internet to see if you can find anything there or let it give you ideas. Also when making something put Advantages and disadvantages whats the point in a piece of tech that has no disadvantages, a good idea if your not shore on it is ask the NS comuity and see what they think.

Tell me what you think of that people...tell me what you like and dont and tell me what you want added

im still waiting for people to tell me if the start ive made is ok or not I NEED FEED BACK also if anyone wants the full Documant go here (http://s6.invisionfree.com/International_Mall/index.php?showtopic=295) and download it its a word Doc for 98+ but if anyone needs it in another format ask and i will change it to it if i can

My view on firing while cloaked:

While you can do it, there's no real point. Unless you're really clever, your enemy's going to be able to tell exactly where the shots came from, and blast you into oblivion.

I don't do much space RP, but mostly I obey the laws of physics when possible.

Things I use:

Hyperdrive: Multi-level hyperspace (A through Y); the further down you go, the faster you can go. IE, you can go faster in G-level than you can in D-level. Limited by gravity wells.

Weapons: Various inventive and strange things, from 12" naval guns with thermonuclear weapons for shells to 400' mass drivers originally intended for shipping twenty-ton loads of asteroid rock around the system.

However, my nation, on a whole, is modern/near future, with a dash of magic. (Which has its own laws... for instance, magic is ineffective in space.)

Properly ballanced, just about anything can be justifyed a non-godmod. My FTL is instantanious, for example; by it's very nature, it can't be anything but instantanious, however I ballance this by incorperating recharge and recalibration times directly proportional to the jump distance; this is further offset by my small fleet size, which inherently limits force projection.

BUMP

TAG...GODMODERS, they should be put on trial and if found guilty and dont change their ways then all nations that sign up to the trial should ignore them, that way you dont have people RPing a war and attacking your ally and you cant attack back because your IGNORING whatever nation it is

huh...ok people i still want you ideas on what could be allowed in a space RP and what couldnt not (or is godmod) and advise come on its not hard

huh...ok people i still want you ideas on what could be allowed in a space RP and what couldnt not (or is godmod) and advise come on its not hard
Well, problem for me is that im only just turned to future tech RP. Well Godmode is what the official NS forums say, but for future tech it means that rules for stuff like how good ships etc can be have to be written up, i say that people post what they think is suitable for space RP and tech and what years, because unlike moderntech you cant know exactly what will be around at that time...its pretty much guess work, and im no good at it :D

I may not be a space nation, but hey.

They shouldn't be able to hyperspace (or whatever) instantly. It would take time.

True, but there's some unfortunate side effects to that...for instance,

Nation 1 sends his fleet after Nation 2's planet to invade it

3482965649 years later...

Well, here is my input: I dont care what people use as long as they can explain it and are good at RPing. If my enemy has some gainst super fleet comming ina nd destroying my planets but makes it fun for me to read. Fine. Not that im saying you can have uber godmodish stuff just because you make it sound good. Moderation is the key.

Well, here is my input: I dont care what people use as long as they can explain it and are good at RPing. If my enemy has some gainst super fleet comming ina nd destroying my planets but makes it fun for me to read. Fine. Not that im saying you can have uber godmodish stuff just because you make it sound good. Moderation is the key.

thats more like the stuff i want to see, people i also want you to put forward reason why you shouldnt (cant) have something its all good and say it but give me reasons.

I dont think its a matter of Nation 1 shouldnt/couldnt have this. Its more of a matter of Nation 1 shouldnt/couldnt have this AND that. If a small nation wants a big ship, let them have it as long as they are making some trade off. Within reason of course.

BUMP

My opinions...
First off, this is free-form RP as has been put to the table earlier, so you theretically can RP whatever you want. That having been said, within reson. no 5 millino pop. nation with a multi-kilometer-long ship, unless thats all they have... absolutely nothing else, but a billion going on two (such as myself) might have one very huge ship, and some smaller ones, or a few missized ones. I now make my most important (IMO) point: you cannot restrict damage of weaponry, damage taken by types of armor, how teachnologies can be used, what a teachnology does, etc. if you take nothing else from my post, take this. Next... on planets (#-wise) true, someone may have only a billion people, but have several planets... does this mean all of his planets are immensely sparsely populated? yes. Does this mean anyone could have several planets no matter their size? no. simply from an economics point of view if you had 10 planets at 5mil pop, you'd have 500,000 people on each planet... you'd have to have like one city on each planet, and that would cause trade issues, and you're population ould probably die... enough from me, and if you think I'm the stupidest person you've ever met, thats your opinion, keep it to yourself.

Postscript: Oh, and Space nations should keep the orbital bombardment of NS earth to a minimum (zero) thats bad for our reputations in general, you have no idea how many people will generalize a small instance.

i like that point i really need to write up the planet bit, as well as the other things you have sead ive always say that its up to the Person who made the RP whats allowed in it or not as long as its not stupid and its resanble (sorry for spelling)

My views on planetary bombardment: Once a fleet takes control of a planet's orbitals, they should demand the planet's surrender. If the planet refuses, a demonstration bombardment on a military facility should be done, followed by another demand for surrender. If they still refuse, destroy military and government facilities, then industrial areas, then finally civilian areas.

Of course, there have been exceptions to this rule, such as a Verniian Q-ship squadron bombarding Valinor holdings on Earth, and the threatened destruction of the elven capital in the Epsilon Pegasi system.

My views on planetary bombardment: Once a fleet takes control of a planet's orbitals, they should demand the planet's surrender. If the planet refuses, a demonstration bombardment on a military facility should be done, followed by another demand for surrender. If they still refuse, destroy military and government facilities, then industrial areas, then finally civilian areas.

Hear, hear.

Bombarding civilian areas without asking for surrender first is definitely a reason for EVERYONE in the immediate vicinity to declare war, if they should so choose. I for one wouldn't stand in their way.

Back in the day there was this alliance called the GA. They godmodded with uber ammoless ships, so I ambushed them and killed them. THE END


Even laser cant be continuesly powered

My views on planetary bombardment: Once a fleet takes control of a planet's orbitals, they should demand the planet's surrender. If the planet refuses, a demonstration bombardment on a military facility should be done, followed by another demand for surrender. If they still refuse, destroy military and government facilities, then industrial areas, then finally civilian areas.

Of course, there have been exceptions to this rule, such as a Verniian Q-ship squadron bombarding Valinor holdings on Earth, and the threatened destruction of the elven capital in the Epsilon Pegasi system.

You have to remember, the above is a Western concept. This can't be a rule. What if it is a more fascist regime that commits the act? They may not exhibit the above modus operandi, favoring a more terror striking approach.

That's a rule on political ideology, not godmodding. That can't be allowed.

I don't mind ammoless, I mind that crap where the n00bzor says, "Gee, my ships are continuously powered, and thus cna fire shots without stopping." Well, ammoless isn't bad, but more importantly is how fast you fire. Barrels and missile tubes overheat, and the recharge time for a rail gun to get back to whamming shots out into space also takes time.

Ammoless is not unrealistic, considering all we do is transfer mass and energy, and none of it is ever destroyed. Such a cycle could conceivably be put in an area as small as a ship. (I'm a big fan of this kind of tech, even though I RP my ships as needing recharge and replacement).

Parthenon, unless I'm mistaken you were a GA member.

How did the GA Godmod? What the hell is an ammoless ship? When the hell did you "ambushed them and killed them"?

Last time I checked I haven't been killed (except for about 1 week ago, and that was all me)

double post

My views on planetary bombardment: Once a fleet takes control of a planet's orbitals, they should demand the planet's surrender. If the planet refuses, a demonstration bombardment on a military facility should be done, followed by another demand for surrender. If they still refuse, destroy military and government facilities, then industrial areas, then finally civilian areas.

Of course, there have been exceptions to this rule, such as a Verniian Q-ship squadron bombarding Valinor holdings on Earth, and the threatened destruction of the elven capital in the Epsilon Pegasi system.

You have to remember, the above is a Western concept. This can't be a rule. What if it is a more fascist regime that commits the act? They may not exhibit the above modus operandi, favoring a more terror striking approach.

That's a rule on political ideology, not godmodding. That can't be allowed.

I don't mind ammoless, I mind that crap where the n00bzor says, "Gee, my ships are continuously powered, and thus cna fire shots without stopping." Well, ammoless isn't bad, but more importantly is how fast you fire. Barrels and missile tubes overheat, and the recharge time for a rail gun to get back to whamming shots out into space also takes time.

Ammoless is not unrealistic, considering all we do is transfer mass and energy, and none of it is ever destroyed. Such a cycle could conceivably be put in an area as small as a ship. (I'm a big fan of this kind of tech, even though I RP my ships as needing recharge and replacement).

Operation Adios Amigos
You and you 10,000 torpedo ship.
I had Crimson Blades Fleet waiting in ambush

If I remember correctly the GA died within the week

I think these rules should have the following:

how powerful each odd weapon system is (lasers vs. ion cannons vs plasma guns etc. etc.) preferably in armor piercing.

acceptable ship sizes

accepting the fact that, being in the future, a ship in space would be like a ship of today (warship) in cost-you wont just get the money

rules on odd, made up alloys/elements/etc. for armor

I concur wholeheartedly with this very early point, this was pretty much the goal of a thread I made a couple weeks ago (I am still doing some research for it). I've got some thoughts and some specific numbers if people want to hear them.

I also must say that assuming that you can build a Death Star just because it was in Star Wars is dumb. You don't have the resources the empire had, they were using a planet of several billion people to produce it and those people didn't need to worry about cost of living. In reality less than ten percent of most nations' GDP goes to the military, and most of that must be for maintenance of what they've already got, whereas the empire had all the cost of living paid for by its many other star systems, allowing it to utilize more than ten times more production capacity than any NS nation has for such a thing.

i only spend 22% of my NB on milltary 30% at major war (eg im useing most if not all of my Grand Fleet)

imdoin a bit of research on plasma tech ion tech etc etc but this project might get put on hold unless i get help i got college work to do as well lol

No uber weapons that magically desolate entire systems.Be sure yuo add that.Or else..I'll..uhh..do..something..

Well of course no uber weapons, but we have to be able to have some superior weaponry over those midevil weapons you use.... comeon just because we may use our Hydrogen bombs and completley destroy the earth, if its a good role play it should go through.

i'll post more tomorrow

Okay, all of this concerns the price vs. the mass of a ship. I know there's other issues, but this is the one that I have the most info on and that I think is most abused. I'm comparing the prices of naval vessels to space for this, because while it may not be the same it will be analagous. I used the cost per ton of a logistics ship, the thing with the least technology attached to it, something that basically just has what it needs to exist, as my base. This has a cost per ton of a little over $15,000, actually about $17,000 on average. It could be more for a spacecraft because it has greater requirements (life support, more costly engine, communications, and sensors, plus an FTL drive), or it could be less because of better manufacturing methods, but I think it should be a balance, perhaps a little less, because the two factors counteract one another.

I also looked at the cost of steel, low grade comes to $250 per ton and high grade can exceed $500. This, too, should be related to the original because newer materials will cost more but superior manufacturing methods will counteract the greater cost. However, I think that we could probably cut the cost here, maybe to about half, $250 per ton for good material. Of course this is for basic material, the equivalent of steel, and assumes a fair natural supply of the needed resources. This would skyrocket in the absence of natural materials or in the case of superior materials that cost more to manufacture (assuming you don't ignore uber-alloys these would probably be in the thousands per ton).

Then one must consider the ratio of mfg cost to materials cost. Currently for the bare-bones ship that comes to about 30 to 1. In space tech we would assume methods that are more efficient at a rate similar to those of materials manufacturing (the cost to produce 1 ton of material decreases in a manner proportional to the way the cost of utilizing that ton decreases). This means we would have a ratio varying between 20 to 1 and 40 to 1, pretty much as is decided.

This makes the cost of production range from about $5,000 to $10,000 per ton for just a basic hull, engine, FTL, etc. Adding weapons, defenses, and additional systems (such as cloaking devices) would increase this, as would better versions of systems assumed to exist, such as faster FTL, faster sub-light engine, etc.

I may post more later.

i am not a space nation, but anyway. if you put in consideration the size of most capital ships, most people think of some thing ranging from a drednought class battleship to a air craft carrier. really, most capital ships are going to be HUGE. if you want to have a ship that has multiple weapon systems, a huge engine to "warp Jump" with, pluss living, recreation, sleeping and eating quaters for the crew, + the huge storage for food, fuel and amunation. amunation is another thing. a spitfire has generaly 1000 rounds of amunition and it can fir for 6 seconds. you need enough amunition for a major ship battle.i am talking about the size of a large town or small city,

just a thought

deleted

I'm sure you are all familiar with the technology from the show Star Trek. I'm going to endeavour to explain why it should not be taken as god mod, even if no one has objected to it yet.

Propulsion:
Impulse
-Excellent maneuvering
-fuel intensive
-limited to 1/4 C, due to relativity
-has an exhaust, next best thing to a bullseye
-requires special fusion reactors
Warp drive
-Takes place in an alternate realm known as subspace
-Speed range is calibrated as such, Warp 1 through < 10. Any warp factor that is a multiple of 10 is quite literally impossible, being that it is infinite velocity. Also, any multiple of 10 requires seemingly infinite power
-Older warp systems can actually cause damage to subspace, creating subspace tears
-Currently, the fastest ship in the Star Trek universe is the Prometheus class, which cruises at warp 9.99, or 21451 C. Even at this speed, it would take 60 years to cross the galaxy.
-Warp drive requires a matter antimatter power core, and a set of devices, called warp coils. Try looking it up on a site, www.ditl.org.
Wormholes
-While not exactly propulsion, wormholes are included here.
-Wormhole sizes can range from km across, to only a few metres.
-They can traverse several thousand lightyears, and the travel time through one is related to the properties of the wormhole, as well as the distance covered.

Weapons: Nearly all the weapons in the ST universe are energy based, typically consisting of beams or pulses of energy.
Phasers
-Beams of phased plasma, causing damage by the rapid nadion effect,
-causing the target's matter to transition into another dimension
-Can also be seen as small pulses, though this type is only observed to be used on a small starship class.
Disruptors
-Similiar to phasers, though more commonly observed in pulses
-beams are only used on the larger ships.
Special Notice:
-torpedoes are projectiles, thus they can be intercepted(shot down)
-one known energy torpedo exists, the plasma torpedo, yield decreases with range.
-launchers are not direct feed from magazine.
-as such, the best type of launcher developed can fire 15 torpedoes, then must pause to reload
Photon Torpedo
-Basically, an uncontrolled matter antimatter reaction
-Encased in a missile, capable of warp velocities when launched at warp.
Quantum Torpedo
-Nearly identical to photon torpedo, only higher yield, due to utilization of Zero Point Energy (ZPE).
Trilithium torpedo
-The only purpose designed, weapon of mass destruction.
-Due to currently unknow reactions, will destroy a star, resulting shockwave will destroy most, if not all of the planets in the system.
-being a torpedo, it is possible to shoot down
Subspace Wapons
-highly unpredictable
-might actually do nothing at all
-requires special launcher
Mines
-much like torpedoes, only immobile
-can be fitted with cloakng device

Defence
Cloak
-can be visual, sensor, or both
-works off of using gravity to bend light and scanner pulses around the ship
-ships cannot have a "perfect" cloak (I refuse to believe the Scimitar's cloak was perfect)
Shields
-most definately not impervious
-graviton based
-bend space, causing, from the incoming threat's point of view, the shielded target's position to change
Armor
-most types are similiar to just durable coatings designed to protect the ship from micro-meteorites
-more advanced is ablative armor, which, when hit will actually vaporize to carry of the energy of the impact

I think I've covered everything essential to RPing, but if you need more

The problem I usually have with Star Trek is stuff like this:


Phasers
-Beams of phased plasma, causing damage by the rapid nadion effect.


Treknobabble.

There is no such thing as the "rapid nadion effect". Does that stop them?
No.

They cheerfully make up all kinds of rubbish about "dilithium", "meson waves" and "neutrino beacons".

The only requirement seems to be that it sounds vaguely scientific. They don't even seem to try to be believable. For instance:

I remember one Star Trek:TNG episode in which LaForge is trapped on a planet, and the Enterprise drops a neutrino source which he detects and travels to, so they can beam him up.

Now, LaForge detects the neutrinos with his VISOR, which is about the same size as a pair of goggles. The writers seem to completely ignore the fact that neutrino detectors now can only be made out of huge tanks of heavy water, which have to be deep underground to shield them from cosmic rays and require huge arrays of super-sensitive detectors.

While neutrino detectors may shrink in the coming centuries, I cannot possibly see how you could fit one in something VISOR-sized, especially considering all the other stuff jammed in there.

Can you see my point?

ya well all i know is ST tech has to over heat sooner or later

Anything goes, AS LONG AS your opponent agrees with it.

lol well ya thats never been questioned

The point is to get an idea as to what most people should accept. In modern RPs everyone knows what godmodding is, here they don't, and it causes some pretty dumb things. I don't think that you should have to worry about people yelling godmod in the middle of a thread because either you didn't realize you were godmodding or because they don't know what godmodding really looks like. The point is to avoid just that.

The problem I usually have with Star Trek is stuff like this:


Phasers
-Beams of phased plasma, causing damage by the rapid nadion effect.


Treknobabble.

There is no such thing as the "rapid nadion effect". Does that stop them?
No.

They cheerfully make up all kinds of rubbish about "dilithium", "meson waves" and "neutrino beacons".

The only requirement seems to be that it sounds vaguely scientific. They don't even seem to try to be believable. For instance:

I remember one Star Trek:TNG episode in which LaForge is trapped on a planet, and the Enterprise drops a neutrino source which he detects and travels to, so they can beam him up.

Now, LaForge detects the neutrinos with his VISOR, which is about the same size as a pair of goggles. The writers seem to completely ignore the fact that neutrino detectors now can only be made out of huge tanks of heavy water, which have to be deep underground to shield them from cosmic rays and require huge arrays of super-sensitive detectors.

While neutrino detectors may shrink in the coming centuries, I cannot possibly see how you could fit one in something VISOR-sized, especially considering all the other stuff jammed in there.

Can you see my point?

Hence why I use BattleFleet Gothic tech. :wink:

That's what happens aftet nearly 400 years of advancement. Also, if you ever read the technical manuals, the technology used is quite well explained.

First Post
Woohoo...

Anyways in my opinion, even though i am new, and not yet a space nation, I think your rules need more work

First of all, I would do away with all the ship sizes requirements for several reasons.
One that is very obvious is that people that are newer in space will have smaller ships therefore there carrier could be the size of a olders nations destroyer or the like.

Another reason is that several nations use as you said Star Trek and Star Wars. In these galaxies there are size discrepencies (pardon the spelling). Take for example the Galaxy Class of Star Trek. In canon, it is stated to be around 650 meters (players shift the sizes, they use the pics only) and is classified as a Cruiser. However in Babylon 5, the Omega class which is classfied as a cruiser as well is 1800 meters along, again using canon statistics.

The third reason for doing away with size requirements is fleet strategy (for RP) differs. This leads to variations in classification as two people use the same type of ship..but one calls it a battleship while the other calls it a cruiser.

I do believe that naturally ship limits will come as there is no way a person can have a battleship that is a 100 meters long unless of course his fleet sizes are very small as well as ship sizes

Another concern I had was with the energy output. There are several other forms of power that is used. I think Gravitic Drives (Minbari) use some other form of power.

The weapons part was a good point because there are some nations who go overboard on the weapons side. I once saw a nation that had 500 various missle tubes and railguns and the like on a 1000 meter ship, meaning he had about 2 meters space between each weapon. Sounds very realistic.

Anyways thats my first post...:D

Great insight Hisam, thank you for the input

-If you make a spam/n00b/flaming nation, everybody has the right to fry your organs and feed them to their nations workforce in the form of nourishing gruel.

That's what happens aftet nearly 400 years of advancement. Also, if you ever read the technical manuals, the technology used is quite well explained.

It's perfectly fair to say that a lot of Trek technology relies upon principles that we currently don't match to the laws of physics.

On the other hand, does that matter?

If both sides agree on the effects of the tech, its connection to reality as we know it can be as tenuous as you like.

For instance my nation is an arms dealer in Baentopia, a region that tries to limit itself to food fights. These aren't throw across the canteen type food fights, they are full blown high tech wars but all weapons dispense forms of food :-)

Our current best-selling weapon is the pudding cannon, which can safely deliver a 30" plum pudding to a target 30 miles away. This uses a carefully undefined tech called an etheric force driver. I can't tell you how it works or how to make it, but I am consistent about the characteristics and limitations of the technology.

I think this is all that it needs, a self-consistency that prevents godmodding.

If both sides agree on the effects of the tech, its connection to reality as we know it can be as tenuous as you like.

For instance my nation is an arms dealer in Baentopia, a region that tries to limit itself to food fights. These aren't throw across the canteen type food fights, they are full blown high tech wars but all weapons dispense forms of food :-)

Our current best-selling weapon is the pudding cannon, which can safely deliver a 30" plum pudding to a target 30 miles away. This uses a carefully undefined tech called an etheric force driver. I can't tell you how it works or how to make it, but I am consistent about the characteristics and limitations of the technology.

I think this is all that it needs, a self-consistency that prevents godmodding.

Agreed.

I suppose I really shouldn't complain about tech. After all, I use thaumatech (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=127421&highlight=)*.

Star Trek tech is just something that particularly annoys me. I think the problem is that they made up a lot of scientific-sounding words, then wrote out the technology to fit the words.

*A fancy name for magical devices.

Star Trek *insert gagging sound*

The problem is that Star Trek has no continuity in its tech. They make up tech as along they go and then after a while, there are massive contradictions. And also the time travel thing...

Star Trek *insert gagging sound*

The problem is that Star Trek has no continuity in its tech. They make up tech as along they go and then after a while, there are massive contradictions. And also the time travel thing...

lol true true its why i like B5 tech

Triplepost, triplepost, triplepost, BAH!

Triplepost, triplepost, triplepost, BAH!

The problem is that Star Trek has no continuity in its tech. They make up tech as along they go and then after a while, there are massive contradictions. And also the time travel thing...

That's true also.

lol true true its why i like B5 tech

B5 is much better. I watched Episodes 1-6 of Series 5 and was amazed at how much better it is.

Now, if only I could get Episodes 7-N...

Im not majorly against Star Trek tech. As long as they can answer for what they have. I just get anoyed when some one says that they have great shields, great weapons, AND great armor. Example: I find it hard to believe that Star Trek ships have great armor. Its even worse when they claim to have all this stuff and can't even spell it correctly or use the proper grammar. That is what really starts bugging me after a while. I will be far more inclined to agree with you tech if I can understand what the f*** they are talking about! :x :x

its why i have a store front that explans my stuff

You asked for everyone's opinion on this, so by Spoot your going to get mine.

Orbital Bombardment
Skeelzania does not believe in the differance between military and civilian targets. In addittion, Skeelzanians tend to believe that humans are the true species and all others are merely animals of varying degrees of intelligence, they have little qualms about simply pounding an enemy's population center into dust.

They is rationalized by the theory that, in war, everyone contributes to the nation's war effort. Not only is the soldier firing the gun a viable target, but so is the factory worker who made his gun, and the factory worker's wife who made his sandwich before he went to work. In short, the entirity of a nation's populance is fair game.

Treatment of Prisoners
Though surrendering without a fight is considered extreamly dishonorable, no qualms are held against those who surrender after resistance.

Skeelzanian's treat their prisoners in different ways, depending largely on which species the POW is. A human POW can expect to be treated significantly better than say, an elvish conscript.

Refugees
Refugee ships are usually destroyed out of hand, for security reasons.

bahh blowing up Refugees thats not right u should take them and use them for target pratice or to help incress ur bio weapon tech im not saying i do/do not do this.

Stuff like orbital bombardment and treatment of prisoners is politics only. If i want to murder all POW in cold blood, that doesnt mean Im godmodding. It meens that Im an ass. lol

If you read into star trek somuch that you realize its flaws and you are able to point them out then iam sorry you need to get a life. Its only a t.v show, a bit of light entertainment. (Jeez) by the way i wont follow these rules as well i believe it will take the fun out of future tech.

Actually, I've noticed flaws in Star Trek even though I don't watch it that much. They just... appear sometimes, and I'll have only seen the two events in question once each and it occurs to me.

But that's beside the point. All that I've got to say about Star Trek just now is that Star Trek ships don't have any meaningful armor. You notice that every time the shields drop to less than 50% the ship's about to explode. If you had armor then having a shield blown wouldn't mean that your ship was nearly dead, they'd still have to work through shields, so I'm saying there's no armor. As for the tech continuity issue, I can see what people are talking about but I haven't watched with enough detail to make nearly the argument that others are.

As for ship size I don't think there's a limit to the size of a ship. However, ships in the hundreds of billions of tons will bankrupt empires, so while it's possible to build such huge ships noone on NS has the resources to do so. And before you talk about Super Star Destroyers and the Death Star realize that the empire had the economy of most of a galaxy at their disposal and a population measured in trillions, not billions.

Corpsac: B5 is the best for tech because there are no (well almost none) contradictions in the tech. Its what made the show wonderful to watch...

Whoever said Star Trek ships have great armor is crazy. Without their shields they will be cut to ribbons. Compared to most other Universes, there armor values are pathetic

Imperial Brits im not saying u have to (hence the name UNOFFICAL) the whole point is for all people to have there say wat they feel is acceptable and is not that ALL or the MAJOR part agree on. its not designed to say "u cant have that cos i think it stupid"

for exsample a nation of anything under 800 million - 1 billion could most likely not be able to afford (with out help for others) to build really LARGE ships.

its to help people not tell them what to do to let them see what people think befor it turns into ignore and flame wars.

I must say, you are very adamant about Trek tech. If you were unaware of this, NASA is actually building a warp drive, and subspace is a real theory.

Personally I dont mind Trek Tech. It has its own flavor and I love phasers and quantum torpedoes. Also the Dominion and Cardassians are just cool. Warp Drive isnt bad also. People are just fed up with it because of the inconsitencies(sp?) and contradictions.

I would not mind a Sovereign or two in a space fleet as well :D

Interesting comment, as I have 3 under construction right now.

If you were unaware of this, NASA is actually building a warp drive

I must say that I think you're wrong. If NASA was building a "warp drive", it would be all over the news. Could you provide proof?

and subspace is a real theory

I rather doubt that it resembles Star Trek's idea of subspace.

Im not interested in what technology makes sence and which doesn't. One thing I hate is when RPers never let their ships die, and then complain when his attack doesn't kill me. I tend to see it alot and its just a fancy way of saying: Your attack does little damage, My attack kills you, I win. It drives me insane. :shock:


So, a summary of my major points:

1.) Be a good RPer. 'Make what you write fun and enjoyable to read. Make sure that it makes sense and that you have your data available'

2.) Use correct spelling/grammar. 'You don't need to be perfect. (I'm not) But if I can't tell where one sentence ends and the next begins or I can't tell what you are trying to say, then there is a problem.

3.) Don't be afraid to suffer casulties. 'Nothing is indestructable. Avoid saying things like: "All my ships dodge out of the way" or "All the ship's shields hold" and don't pretend the attack never happened. It is just another form of godmodding.

Those are my major points. Thanks.

I'd say that is probably the best set of rules I've heard yet. All you've got to do is realize that no ship can be truly invulnerable. As long as you follow that rule, I think the RP is just fine. For example, the super star destroyer, or the death star. Those ships are absolutely massive, and incredibly powerful. But, their users must realize that their maneuverability is going to suck. I consider the SSD turning 180 degrees in less than a thousand kilometres very stretching of the rules.

I'd say that is probably the best set of rules I've heard yet.

Thank you. :D

I'd say that is probably the best set of rules I've heard yet.

Thank you. :D

I'd say that is probably the best set of rules I've heard yet.

Thank you. :D

lol ISSD cant maneuver(that well if at all) its just one big weapons platfrom