NationStates Jolt Archive

After a request in the original thread, a forum for OOC discussion and questions regarding the CPRD's martial efforts to reunite Korea.

I'm having a lot of trouble with the forums at the moment and can't get posts to go through- I've already tried to post this thread with a link to the war, but that didn't go through.

I could have sworn I requested that new participants say something OOC first, but maybe it didn't go through while I was drunk last night, because the thread seems to have rolled on for pages since I last saw it. Ho hum.

Erm, anyway, yes, this forums open to whatever input interested parties may have.

(If it ever ****ing posts!)

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=138968&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Ahh, a link to the original thread, then. I hope.

I'm a little confused as to this history with Kosong... it is a free city.. er.. was a free city.. what does this mean? Was it like the Forbidden City in early 20th century China?

OOC: Is Dra-pol even Asian?

(If it ever ****ing posts!)

The forums are F.U.B.A.R., just like the NK political system.

Ah, well, Dra-pol's communist revolution was fought in isolation in the 1930s, and at the time most of the population was centred in small towns, many walled (owing to the nation's violent history) with a few cities- Paegam, known as the Forbidden City, was the imperial capital. The communists under Director Sulo moved the capital to DaKhiem and enacted a forced ruralisation of the populace akin to that later seen in Pol Pot's Kampuchea. DaKhiem has a day-time population of around 30,000, and is all but deserted at night.

After the Crusader Wars Quinntonia held what in reality is the Hamhung/Hungnam area and built a massive city there. Pyongyang became a PAAF airforce base populated by a few thousand service men and their families. Kanggye became the centre of Drapoel heavy industry, with most industry being conducted in small workshops across the countryside.

Kosong was established as an experiment in ...making Hamhung look bad. Dra-pol wanted a trading port to out-compete Hamhung/Hungnam, and started building the Republic's only near-conventional city. It was callled the open city as foreigners were allowed in, embassys were established, and limited experiments with capitalism were allowed as the recession started.

It didn't work terribly well, and so the city was closed off from the rest of the republic so as not to ..infect the revolution with western or capitalist ideals.

Before the war started it was basically a declining city that DaKhiem was unsure what to do with. We brought in foreign trade through it, but now the harbour's in a bit of a state after Kilean missile strikes. Currently it's closed off by the People's Army and anyone trying to get out runs the risk of being shot.

Is our oil-deal still on?

Who wants to hear some NK-bashing jokes?

Taiwan.... if you haven't noticed... there is a blockade going on of Drapol.

Anything going to Drapol will be seized. Unless Drapol wants to challenge me for control of the seas... speaking of which... where is your navy Drapol?!

Dra-pol is keen to get its hands on any fuel it can. There are massive stock-piles underground, but there's also massive demand and the probability of some degree of blockade.

Dra-pol's navy consists of two dozen Penglai-built missile attack boats, a few D/E submarines, shore-based ASW aircraft, and a few short range landing craft. They're mostly tucked away in caves or man-made bunkers in cliffs and such.

Thats it?

Well.. I guess I don't know it in IC, but it'll be hard going for my navy to find yours. Is it in the Yellow Sea or the Sea of Japan? Or spread across both?

Mostly I am looking for your naval yards... I think I'd know their location from satellite photos but you never know.. them North Koreans are pretty sneaky.

Ok, Im just going to jump in with a few notes on whats happening, and some difficulties that are becoming apparent. As Dra-pol has said in the IC thread, there is info which is being ignored by Xiaguo/Sino.

A)))) The crossings over the Yalu have been mostly destroyed. You are marching hundreds of thousands of troops through a very limited number of entry points, after they cross a 'kill-zone' on the Xiaguo side where they are in range of Drapoel artillery. In addition, commando units have infiltrated to attack supply lines on the Xiaguo side. Neither Xiaguo nor Sino has acknowledged or responded to either of these realities, and have instead declared 'missiles destroy Drapol's army and we take over the north of his country.'

The proper course of action is to:
1) declare your casualties from drapoel artillery and infiltrators as your forces approach the border.
2) fire your missiles and let Dra-pol declare his casualties and response. Continue until you're satisfied you can try to cross without artillery fire destroying you.
3) explain how your forces are crossing into Dra-pol. Let Dra-pol declare his response, and both of you declare appropriate casualties.
4) IF (and it is an if, not a certainty) you get troops into Dra-pol and past the border forces, THEN you can start occupying communes... AFTER Dra-pol has declared those communes reaction to your approach, and you have responded in turn and been able to take control.

If you dont follow the proper steps, then the whole RP will just degenerate.

B)))) People need to STOP THINKING DRA-POL IS NORTH KOREA! it isnt! Its capital, population centres, language, culture, etc. etc. ARE NOT NKs, and many (the northern invaders most notably) act as if they are, wich invalidates their involvement in the RP. Dra-pol has explained all this in the thread itself. I suggest you read it fully so that you're aware of the situation you're marching into, as right now the Sino/Xiaguo troops seem to be using maps and plans which are missing, for one, the capital of Dra-pol, and the de-urbanization, amongst other things.

C)))) This could be a fabulous RP... Dra-pol has been making excellent posts, and engaging them militarily will be a very rewarding experience for many of you. However, the war will degenerate into confusion and flaming unless everyone steps back, reads the preceding posts carefully, posts detailed descriptions of their actions, and then waits for a response post. The war in the south is already looking to be a great piece of RP melodrama, and if the northern invaders modify their participation methodology a bit, that too may be rewarding. I am certainly looking forward to seeing where this all goes, as I'm sure are we all, and it would be a shame to see it fall apart due to simple errors in understanding.

The Experienced Navies of Hudecia, Xiaguo, and Sino has developed a blockade. Dra-Pol should be living off by it's stored underground cargo.

OOC:Spyr, sorry, I didn't realise that. i will try better posting.

spyr- what exactly is your situation? i assumed you were somewhat pro dra-pol (and the IC Kilean government is going to keep acting suspect)...but are you neutral? or just want a diplomatic solution?

Taiwan.... if you haven't noticed... there is a blockade going on of Drapol.

Anything going to Drapol will be seized. Unless Drapol wants to challenge me for control of the seas... speaking of which... where is your navy Drapol?!

Yes, this was quite a long time ago.

Now, another question (which could affect my populations willingness to engage): Can Dra-polean missiles reach Taiwan?

About crossing the Yalu, the Chinese and their effective deployable bridges should make this a breeze, there's also the availability of Type 99 amphibious tanks in the ARSMC. As for the crossing, Dra-pol has ICly recognized our location off Kanggye.

This is going to be like the Sino-Japannese War thread. We're well on the seventh page.

I must say that I do appreciate Spyr's attention to detail, and I'll add that I hope people won't be affaid to reasonably address similar errors that I may make- this is all so hypothetical that it's difficult to marshal.

OOC (to Dra-pol): Are you Asian?

I once had a war with the nation North Korea. Good point of invasion is the harbor city of Wonsan. Move up to Kop-Ung, and you have cut the nation in half.

I must say that I do appreciate Spyr's attention to detail, and I'll add that I hope people won't be affaid to reasonably address similar errors that I may make- this is all so hypothetical that it's difficult to marshal.

If I wasn't away then this fandango started of course I would have paid the damn priceless attention to detail.

Spyr is not 'pro-Drapol', per se... it is currently neutral for most intents and purposes, though it is a member of the Asian Resistance, and thus may be pulled into the conflict as its allies defend the ROK. Spyr simply thinks that Dra-pol will fight to the last child before it is defeated, and that it will attempt to destroy the ROK rather than lose it. Knowing this, Spyr seeks to find a way to prevent it, and currently fears that increased pressure from northern invasion and massed troops in the south may push Dra-pol over the edge before Drapoel attitudes can be shifted enough for peace to be a viable solution.

Taiwan- Dra-pol carried out a few missile tests over recent years, the most recent being a couple of months before the invasion. The first successful Drapoel ballistic missile made something like 3,000km (off the top of my head) but actually broke apart, not that DaKhiem admitted it. The last two were in the 5,000km to 5,500km range, and landed way out in the Pacific. The last of them was fired on the same day as a boosted fission device was detonated below ground, marking Dra-pol's second nuclear test.

Though this is ooc information, I will say that Dra-pol's ballistic missile programme has failed to put anything in orbit, has not managed to reach beyond 5,500km, and does not constitute a really massive building programme- stockpiles of missiles are quite low.

( http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2597153#2597153 )

I once had a war with the nation North Korea. Good point of invasion is the harbor city of Wonsan. Move up to Kop-Ung, and you have cut the nation in half.

*Jots the points down.*

Heh, stop helping them, you! :)

And no, I'm not. I'm not a Stalinist or similar, either, for that matter, but there y'go.

(Oh, yes, I am something of a socialist, but never mind that)

Taiwan- Dra-pol carried out a few missile tests over recent years, the most recent being a couple of months before the invasion. The first successful Drapoel ballistic missile made something like 3,000km (off the top of my head) but actually broke apart, not that DaKhiem admitted it. The last two were in the 5,000km to 5,500km range, and landed way out in the Pacific. The last of them was fired on the same day as a boosted fission device was detonated below ground, marking Dra-pol's second nuclear test.

Though this is ooc information, I will say that Dra-pol's ballistic missile programme has failed to put anything in orbit, has not managed to reach beyond 5,500km, and does not constitute a really massive building programme- stockpiles of missiles are quite low.

( http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2597153#2597153 )

That's some useful piece of commie propaganda.

That's some useful piece of commie propaganda.


Do you have something against us Communists (the good people)? Are you one of those Capitalists (evil people)?

No Sino, noone wants to hear racist jokes...

Dra-pol, I understand that your nation exists over that of RL North Korea, but have IC borders ever been established with people other than the player-less ROK, Quinntonian Dra-pol and, now, Xiaquo/Sino China? Is there a Russian NS to the north of RL Sonbong? If not, I'd like to talk to Spyr about the position of the purely NS penninsula of Lyong in conjunction with Dra-pol. It would be good to know if nations like communist Tagan are beside Dra-pol.

Here's a map of Lyong Spyr did up...hopefully it will help.

http://www.freewebs.com/strain/lyong.html

Keep up the great rping! I hope NY can join more extensively...though I'm not sure in what fashion it would.

Q: Why did the NK shove a yardstick up his ass?

A: To help him stand (as he's starving to the brink of collapse).

NY, I've been pretty flexible about geography, so no, I don't really have a Russian neighbour as such. I think I should like to acquire neighbours such as the Lyong peninsula! I'm interested, anyway. I've nothing to lose- all my current neighbours hate me anyway :)

I once had a war with the nation North Korea. Good point of invasion is the harbor city of Wonsan. Move up to Kop-Ung, and you have cut the nation in half.

Ahem, just to let you know, this is the player of the ex-nation N0rth Korea, which took part in that little war.. Remember the Z-14 gas Sigma? The ones I used on your troops a while back? :wink:

You'll still find a few stockpiles of those within various bunker storage complexes under Pyongyang.

(Man, I must be over-tired, how many times did I just use the word neighbour?)

I once had a war with the nation North Korea. Good point of invasion is the harbor city of Wonsan. Move up to Kop-Ung, and you have cut the nation in half.

Ahem, just to let you know, this is the player of the ex-nation N0rth Korea, which took part in that little war.. Remember the Z-14 gas Sigma? The ones I used on your troops a while back? :wink:

You'll still find a few stockpiles of those within various bunker storage complexes under Pyongyang.

We've got biochem agents to rival that.

Q: Why did the NK shove a yardstick up his ass?

A: To help him stand (as he's starving to the brink of collapse).

Did anyone get that?

Q: What do you call a fat NK?

A: Kim Jong-Il. (In Dra-pol's case it would be their leader.)

yes, sino, thank you for that.

and thank you for bringing it forward again.

Now, if I remember the Japann war correctly its time for you to laugh uproariously at your own joke, stir, and repeat.

After the war we can take an interest into this: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=134165&highlight=

Q: What do you call a fat NK?

A: Kim Jong-Il. (In Dra-pol's case it would be their leader.)

Shut up already.

yes, sino, thank you for that.

and thank you for bringing it forward again.

Now, if I remember the Japann war correctly its time for you to laugh uproariously at your own joke, stir, and repeat.

Even if I'm RP'ing a war it doesn't mean that I have to put up a hard face as if there's a drill cane up our my ass all day. You folks are too PC at times.

Q: What do you call a fat NK?

A: Kim Jong-Il. (In Dra-pol's case it would be their leader.)

Shut up already.

Take a hike, Saddam!

Q: What do you call a gay Iraqi who supports Saddam?

A: A Saddamite.

Damn... not many comedians play NS.

What's with the anal fixation?

[shrug]

Anyhoo, I thought I should just say that I might vanish for the 'night' such little of it as remains for me, at any moment, so if I stop responding.. don't wait around!

Q: Why do NKs bear children?

A: So they can harvest from their flock.

(Get it! It's a joke on cannibalism.)

Q: Why do NKs bear children?

A: So they can harvest from their flock.

(Get it! It's a joke on cannibalism.)

Yes, your retarded racist jokes are so funny. Go away. Hopefully you will give us a joke bad enough that will get you deleted.

What's with the anal fixation?

Anal fixation?!

Q: Why do NKs bear children?

A: So they can harvest from their flock.

(Get it! It's a joke on cannibalism.)

Yes, your retarded racist jokes are so funny. Go away. Hopefully you will give us a joke that will get you deleted.

I tell such jokes to _Taiwan and he laughs. You won't get me wrong on this one if you ask him.

Q: What do you call a fat NK?

A: Kim Jong-Il. (In Dra-pol's case it would be their leader.)

Shut up already.

Take a hike, Saddam!

Q: What do you call a gay Iraqi who supports Saddam?

A: A Saddamite.

No really Sino, noone wants to hear the jokes. Maybe you could start a new thread for them, or something...

Q: What do you call a fat NK?

A: Kim Jong-Il. (In Dra-pol's case it would be their leader.)

Shut up already.

Take a hike, Saddam!

Q: What do you call a gay Iraqi who supports Saddam?

A: A Saddamite.

No really Sino, noone wants to hear the jokes. Maybe you could start a new thread for them, or something...

So what do you people laugh at? Please don't tell about Jackass.

Perhaps you should ask _Taiwan to repeat some of my clean jokes.

Hey- Al Anbar:

What does Saddam Hussein wear when he gets out of the shower?

A Ba'ath robe!


.....oh, c'mon- that's just a little bit funny, right?


Also- I would really like to know the status of Dra-Pol manuver warfare doctrine. Also, if anybody asks, I have full writeups of my own military, it you want them.

So what do you people laugh at? Please don't tell about Jackass.

What? People laugh at comedy...in many of its forms, like irony, or satire. Many people do not laugh at racist jokes, especially when they are completely out of place...this is an OOC thread dealing with the Korean war, not your audience.

Also, what if someone here has Korean ancestry? I'm sure they wouldn't like the generalizations...

Please don't tell about Jackass, the movie? Please don't tell whom?

Hey- Al Anbar:
What does Saddam Hussein wear when he gets out of the shower?

A Ba'ath robe!

Okay, that's kinda funny. But its not racist...more of political.

So what do you people laugh at? Please don't tell about Jackass.

What? People laugh at comedy...in many of its forms, like irony, or satire. Many people do not laugh at racist jokes, especially when they are completely out of place...this is an OOC thread dealing with the Korean war, not your audience.

Also, what if someone here has Korean ancestry? I'm sure they wouldn't like the generalizations...

Please don't tell about Jackass, the movie? Please don't tell whom?

I'm a man who laughs at almost anything. I laugh at South Park and I laugh at some historical situations. I laugh at almost anything. I also do voice impersonations.

One thing I don't find funny is Jackass. As for an audience, I guess on the NS forums are a pretty tough place to find.

Hey- Al Anbar:
What does Saddam Hussein wear when he gets out of the shower?

A Ba'ath robe!

Okay, that's kinda funny. But its not racist...more of political.

ROFLMAO!

... As for an audience, I guess on the NS forums are a pretty tough place to find.

Yeah. People here actually have taste. But I'm sure there's a message board full of five year olds more than willing to listen to your 'jokes' - if, indeed, you can bastardize that term enough to cover the pure drivel that's been spilling from your lips.

[steps back to keep watching the thread...that is, the part of it which is on topic!]

Here's a political joke:

There are three men looking at a nude painting of Adam and Eve, the apple and the snake. The men are respectively British, French and Russian.

After a while of staring at the artwork, the Briton suggests that:

"Adam and Eve seem to be British as the man is sharing something sweet and tasty with the woman."

The Frenchman disagrees:

"These people are French! The man is embracing his love of the woman in the nude."

The Russian listened closely then decides to voice his opinion:

"I think these people are from the Soviet Union." The other two were stunned.

He points to the nudity "not much clothing," points to the apple, "not much food", points to the snake, "a lot of danger", he pauses "and they think they're living in paradise."

... As for an audience, I guess on the NS forums are a pretty tough place to find.

Yeah. People here actually have taste. But I'm sure there's a message board full of five year olds more than willing to listen to your 'jokes' - if, indeed, you can bastardize that term enough to cover the pure drivel that's been spilling from your lips.

[steps back to keep watching the thread...that is, the part of it which is on topic!]

We all laugh at 'unclean' jokes once in a while.

Yeah, uhm, maybe we'll invade those countries tomorrow.


[goes back to bed]

Yeah, uhm, maybe we'll invade those countries tomorrow.


[goes back to bed]

What countries? As you RP NKs, I hope you get OOC before you sleep otherwise you're just on a bed of hay. LOL!

What is written Drapoel language like? Spyran language, which is actually the regional language of Lyong, shares the chinese character set with China, Japan, and traditional Korean/Vietnamese... does Dra-pol have the same characters, a variation on 'modern' korean, or perhaps its own character set?

And, will the transport carrying the Spyran diplomat touch down soon? She will pretty much obey any assigned guides, and answer almost any questions put to her, as well as asking countless questions of her own, concerning all matters,

ooh, interesting point- does it use the really efficent korean alphabet or something more chinese-influenced?

OOC: Sino, as funny as the jokes are, this really is not the place for them.

does anybody want me to post order of battle/equipment?

I think this would be a good place to get that sort of thing out of the way.

Drapol - are you basing your maps off the current maps of NK? Like, does Pyongyang and other cities exist in some form?

Also, a philosophical like question. With millions of your troops in ROK wouldnt they be influenced by the people there?

OOC: Sino, as funny as the jokes are, this really is not the place for them.

At least somebody finds them funny. Alright, I'll stop it now. LOL!

OOC: Sino, as funny as the jokes are, this really is not the place for them.

At least somebody finds them funny. Alright, I'll stop it now. LOL!

OOC: Sino, as funny as the jokes are, this really is not the place for them.

At least somebody finds them funny. Alright, I'll stop it now. LOL!

Taiwan- Dra-pol carried out a few missile tests over recent years, the most recent being a couple of months before the invasion. The first successful Drapoel ballistic missile made something like 3,000km (off the top of my head) but actually broke apart, not that DaKhiem admitted it. The last two were in the 5,000km to 5,500km range, and landed way out in the Pacific. The last of them was fired on the same day as a boosted fission device was detonated below ground, marking Dra-pol's second nuclear test.

Though this is ooc information, I will say that Dra-pol's ballistic missile programme has failed to put anything in orbit, has not managed to reach beyond 5,500km, and does not constitute a really massive building programme- stockpiles of missiles are quite low.

( http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2597153#2597153 )

*Puts SA-22 ABM units on high alert*

As for my forces, well, I've never been good with numbers. Its never been too bad, though. If you need numbers, could you guys give me a template?

Also, for Dra-pol armor, do you have lots of good tanks?

The LRRA has a decent amount of good tanks, lots of good but outdated tanks, and lots and lots of various tank destroyers. The problem with this is that the tank destroyers almost never leave LRR (the anti-tank groups and a good deal of the motor rifle divisions are permanent national defense) and the MBTs are left to do extra-national operations.

An answer to the philosophical question:

I doubt they'll do much influencing when they're hiding in homes or dead. They might do a little influencing if they are captured or actually interact. The LRRA likes to have battles far away from civilian populations. Partly because of the low emphasis on urban warfare, partly because of huge regard for human life, and partly because forests are so much cooler!

All right, there’s going to be a lot of text in these next posts, so I’ll title each bit in bold in case you’re looking for something specific. A lot of this won’t much interest many, I’m sure, but if you want to know specifics about who and what you may be fighting, here they are!
(I didn’t mind writing it, I’m prone to ramble when I’m out of booze [sigh])

Language
The modern Drapoel language is, well, fairly typical of the country. Of course it shares some common roots with other Ural-Altaic languages so it has some recognisable syntax and some basically familiar though rarely identical written shapes. But it’s isolated and somewhat weird. The Drapoel tend to maintain that they are descended from the original inhabitants of Korea, a people that arrived half a million years ago. In reality they are thought to have been pushed-out to Siberia and Japan by immigrants six to eight thousand years ago, as I understand it. Now of course this doesn’t mesh perfectly with the name Choson People’s Republic, but the Drapoel stubbornly insist that there’s no contradiction. They believe themselves to have been the centre of Choson culture and to have controlled an empire peopled by slightly different, less ancient populations who in reality would have been the Koreans we actually know.
So essentially Drapoel is a more ancient language that was spoken for tens of thousands of years before writing developed. With the arrival of the Neolithic ancestors of ‘real’ Koreans six to eight thousand years ago the language was infused with more common Ural-Altaic influences, and writing only came to the Drapoel after that infusion. As such the style of characters is akin to that really found in Korea, but the language is littered with baffling anomalies dating back to the Palaeolithic.

Geography

Originally I meant to place Dra-pol somewhere closer to Cambodia and to give it fictional geography. It was to be surrounded by almost impassable mountains as referenced in my first thread, which ran on for months and included the Three Day War with Quinntonia. It was during the course of that thread that I settled Dra-pol in the Asia region and was placed on the map over North Korea. Now, there’s precious little Rping to be had in the region, as most nation’s aren’t active in that sense, so it really ceased to matter that I was in NK, as most of my neighbours didn’t interact IC with me.
Still, I didn’t see any reason to change it, and Dra-pol became the CPRD by way of adding a bit of flavour. As such, human geography isn’t the same as that of the DPRK, but natural is. Just to make RP easier a lot of place names are kept the same. I am not sure if anyone will mind this, but I want to bring it up anyway- in accordance with our long isolation and the original intent of my fictional location, I’m sort of thinking that Drapoel geography is like.. a more extreme version of North Korea’s. The rivers at the border are a little wider, a little deeper, the mountain passes are a little narrower, a little steeper, and so on. I mean, making the country that inaccessible would go some way to explaining the isolation.
Still, that doesn’t matter so much, NK’s a pretty rugged place anyway, I suppose.

In the end, DaKhiem is a tiny city in the south central area, Paegam is an ancient city now populated by just.. .something akin to a royal court for the young Director, Pyongyang is a big military facility, Kosong is a modern-ish city isolated from the rest of the republic, Hamhung/Hungnam is a massive city under Quinntonian administration and surrounded by fortifications built by both sides, and Kanggye is a massive industrial base in the mountains and is considered by Dra-pol to be about the most heavily defended place on earth.

ROK influence on the Drapeol

This is a potential problem, though it may not be so immediate or great as some imagine. I think LRR has the basic idea.

The Drapoel after all are not the Soviet Union. They’re born into a society –a culture- that’s been introspective and its way of life similar to the current for thousands of years, not tens. The revolution may only be a couple of generations old, but it may be surprising how little it really changed in Dra-pol.

That said, there is already defection. Almost anything your nations know IC about the Drapoel military comes from either A)The Quinntonians, or B)Akiyoro.

Quinntonian Dra-pol represents perhaps the biggest defection in NS. I don’t know many other nations that’ve let millions of their people betray their fanatical regime and flee to the arms of an archenemy.
Akiyoro was engaged in enough espionage to see a western lifestyle and decide he’d like to try it. In truth it probably made a wreck of him to change to something he so little understood, and he’d almost like to have turned around and gone back. Except that of course he’d be killed, and is by now probably dead or hiding in fear for his life, after the over-running of the northern ROK.

In the short term at least the Drapoel are unlikely to understand most of what they see. It probably helps that the average recruit doesn’t understand more than a few words here or there spoken by the South Koreans. Really though, they’ve seen cities on propaganda reels- Hamhung for example. Many can see its hi-rises from their homes. The Central Directorature has played on cities as ..pretty much the home of the devil. Centres of death and all, after so many were killed at Hamhung. That Kosong has now been targeted, and most of the cities troops enter in the ROK reduced by airstrike, artillery, and tunnel attacks, doesn’t hurt either. To most Drapoel to live the city life means asking to get attacked and killed.

Then there’s.. well.. Drapoel don’t understand the concept of currency and such. They were isolated before the revolution, so its not like outside concepts lived on in the national consciousness after they were abolished domestically. The servicemen won’t be interacting in a normal fashion with the locals. They’ll guard them and generally live apart, in the short term. Drapoel culture and economics will be quickly enforced upon the occupied territories.

What’s that? That’ll be a complete disaster? Quite likely it will, yes. I haven’t much to add there. It’ll be a tragedy, most likely, and there’ll be poverty and maybe famine.

The Central Directorature is going to be keen to destroy capitalist influence as quickly as possible, though they would like to maintain as much as possible of its industrial muscle. The commandos played a large part in that, ceasing a lot of assets that might have been sabotaged rather than allowed to fall to a conventional assault.

In the long term, its likely that South Koreans in occupied territory would be less than entirely satisfied with the change of lifestyle, and that they’d not just sit back and take it. Still, its not like we plan to relocate Drapoel to ROK cities in large quantities. Eventually we’ll try to take over their farmland with displaced northern collectives, but the southerners will probably just be kicked off the land. Dra-pol doesn’t want more cities, and will either destroy them or perhaps use them to house troublesome capitalists.

There’s some potential for corruption of the revolution by this invasion, but I think that over all the Drapoel are numerous enough (compared to the southerners) and brutal enough to cope.

Still, if you don’t trust me, look to the north- as I say, I let an entire city fall to capitalist Christian domination, had thousands of Drapoel defect, and RP’d a couple of other attempts to defect to the south, including one specific success. I think that’s reasonably fair for a Nation State, and I would plan to keep it up in the south, even if we win a total victory.

Military

Kilean, I think you wanted to know some fairly specific things, as you can see I got a bit off track with other things, but I’ll try to address any questions directly, now.


Background
Dra-pol’s military is, as you must have gathered, quite central to the nation. For the better part of six thousand years the nation has fought hard to keep people out. I’ve often spoken of Dra-pol as an even more extreme version of North Korea, and the military bears some similarities to that of its other-dimensional little brother. Currently the CPRD is around seventy times more populous than the DPRK, which is I think generally said to have in the order of a million persons in its army, and seven million men and women in various reserve units. That’s pretty frickin’ crazy, even if the reserves do only train from 30-60 days a year, and include high school students training on weekends.
The DPRK has over various 600 amphibious vehicles, a few thousand floating bridge modules, 2,500APCs, 3,800 tanks, over 8,300 artillery guns, 2,700 rocket artillery pieces, 12,500 anti-aircraft guns. It apparently lacks a lot of mobile SAMs, however.

Dra-pol is, as I’ve said, about seventy times larger and generally even more extreme, if possible. We’re currently listed as having a much more powerful economy, too, but then the NS engine doesn’t really take RP into account, so I’ve been claiming for a long time that we’re in recession, even though I’ve only just got the economy down from frightening. I believe it’s now at powerhouse. Basically we briefly had a reasonable economy building when the country was forced back into the world stage. We attracted a lot of aid and a sudden boost in foreign trade, an influx of new technology and the destruction of much of the military lead to massive industrial activity, and a capitalist experiment at Kosong attracted a lot of investment. We then spent heavily on acquiring military technologies denied to the DPRK’s limited technology base, sending us spiralling back into NK-type poverty but taking a lot of new technologies and some shiny developed-world toys with us.

Basically it would be fair to say that DaKhiem played the world for fools with a series of barefaced lies and little gratitude.

Size/reserves/training

The CPRD, not that it announces this information to any foreigner who wants to over-throw its government, has active armed forces comprising anything from fifty to over sixty million persons. A slightly lower ratio than that attributed to the DPRK’s People’s Army alone. Some 48million men and women make up the Drapoel People’s Army- around 20million short of what'd be estimated by an NK ratio applied to Dra-pol, according to typical sources. Some of this is compensated for by a slightly higher ratio of relatively advanced support items, also helped by our brief period of significant economic growth.

If Dra-pol’s reserves were proportionally the same as NK’s one could expect over 400million men and women, including sixteen year old girls and fifty-odd year old men, to have access to arms, regular drills, and an informed familiarity with the defensive strong-points of their locale. That may not quite be the case, but you get the impression that there are tens upon tens of millions of Drapoel ready to fight on a local scale should the war ever come back to Drapoel soil. The reserves are not considered by DaKhiem to be viable for offensive operations across borders, partly because most of them have other things to be doing, and partly because there’d be no way to supply them all properly. Even in Dra-pol you'd never be facing hundreds of millions at once, they'd be operational within their own village areas as and when it seemed appropriate.

The reserves tend to be armed with Japanese or copied Type 99 bolt action rifles, hence their preference for sniping and fleeing. DaKhiem doesn’t care if attackers lose a man to a sniper and then pour thousands of dollars worth of munitions into the trees and hills in the hopes of hitting said sniper. There’s countless millions more snipers, the shooter has probably run off after the first shot, and you’ve still got a man with a 7.7mm bullet in his skull. While you’re looking out for more snipers, you’ve probably lost your point man to a pit full of spikes and wandered into a pass that’s mined with high explosives and about to bury you in rocks.

The People’s Army is still an infantry force first. Even if the NK military has a lot of vehicles, and even if the CPRD has more, there’s no way 48million men can be fully mechanised. Still, Drapoel infantry are good.

The people are generally small- they’ve gone thousands of years on a narrow diet and most are hovering just above malnutrition even today. They’re hardy with it, though. Life’s tough in the CPRD, and discipline is actively enforced even upon the civilian population, making many of them apt for military service even after minimal training. They respect authority, follow orders, know the teachings of their revolutionary leaders and their doctrine inside out, are used to working long hours of hard labour in bad weather, don’t own cars and have a lot of hiking to do, and many hunt small game with their rifles or else starve. That’s not to say that they don’t receive specialised military training afterwards- it’s intensive, of course. Enemies will find that Drapoel soldiers, even reservists and green recruits, tend to be conservative with their fire. Even those armed with automatic rifles tend to take careful aimed shots. None of that firing from the hip rubbish- they grew up in poverty knowing that if they missed that duck with their first shot they might not be furnished with fresh ammunition for a week, and would have to make do with chewing bark or something until then.

Equipment, at last! Infantry first

The standard service rifle in the PA is the Type D-86, a native built weapon employing a fairly ordinary AK-clone mechanism in a bullpup configuration. It chambers an intermediate 6.5mm round meant to give range and stopping power without proving too heavy or powerful for small Drapoel to effectively operate. It’s cheap, quick, and easy to produce even in relatively small collective-based workshops, so it doesn’t exactly display a sparkling finish. It often comes with a bayonet attachment, though the sort varies. Originally a rather impressive long knife with wire-cutters was to be used, but those are usually only seen in Red Bamboo or Banat hands, most making do with a small spike bayonet of poor quality metal.

A sub-machinegun is now quite widely issued and designated the D-Type-K-50M, or something horribly confusing like that. It usually arms Banat fighters, reserves, gun and vehicle crews, officers, non-combat troops, and so forth. The Drapoel were not greatly impressed when faced with westerners using SMGs in the Crusader War after many poorly supported SMG-armed troops were engaged from significant ranges by Drapoel with ancient 7.7mm rifles who picked them off in near impunity. The D-Type-K-50M is a distant relative of the Soviet PPSH family, and is another cheap weapon produced with a lot of stampings and poor finish. It’s said to be light and fairly easy to maintain, but of limited effectiveness over moderate distances.

Drapoel snipers still use 7.7mm bolt action rifles of the Type-99 family, usually fitted with a low powered scope. Though the Japanese rifle suffered a terrible reputation, its original design was sound, as were early production models. Those used by PA snipers are reliable, while many reserves struggle by with the sort of relatively shoddy, rush-job weapons as made by the Japanese in the last days of WWII.

40mm grenade launchers known as the Knee Mortar were used by the thousand in the Crusader War, and anyone with access to Quinntonian information will be familiar with stories of light infantry squads walking fire around a target or covering a retreat with a screen of grenade fire. Drapoel units will often try to herd enemies into a killing zone by laying down a massive weight of grenade fire from weapons that can be placed and moved again in a matter of seconds before opening up with rifle or machinegun fire. They will also use a sudden shock of explosive fire-power to make escape possible, and to attack targets out of their line of sight on the rugged Korean terrain.

The 7.7mm Type 99D light machinegun may not be highly modern, but it fires several hundred .30cal rounds per minute in a straight line from where it was aimed, so the army has few complaints. It has been in production for decades, so will be encountered with alarming frequency.

Type D-KPV 14.5mm machineguns are also common, sometimes as AA guns, sometimes in ground fire roles. They are often towed behind trucks and armoured vehicles, sometimes pulled by hand, and sometimes carried on two poles between a number of soldiers in the fashion used by Drapoel and Japanese troops for generations. Type D-92 Tashio medium machineguns are also transported in this manner, and are frequently found guarding major collective settlements. Their slow rate of fire gives a distinctive woodpecker-like report. These will be found anywhere the PA means to set a sort of way-point in wave attacks, giving arcs of covering fire.

Type 69-I RPGs are a fairly new addition to the PA’s inventory. A Chinese version of the famous Russian RPG-7, favoured in Dra-pol for its impressive range of warheads and the minor improvement offered by its mounting of a bipod.

51mm mortar Type D-3 is a generic light mortar, found anywhere that a 40mm Knee-Mortar just won’t cut it.

QW-2 shoulder-launched SAMs are available by the thousand, making low-level flight over the Republic suicide for unfriendly aircraft. There is no doubt that thousands of these have accompanied the advance into the ROK. They’re a moderately advanced Chinese design, perhaps not the finest on earth, but nothing obsolescent like perhaps the old SA-7.

Vehicles et cetera

The PA is known to have over 7,000 assault guns from 75mm to 150mm, and several thousand are part of the advance. They’re not highly advanced, and often represent old field, anti-tank, or anti-aircraft guns crammed into modified Japanese WWII-era tank chassis.

There are thousands of light trucks in Drapoel service, most native built and very basic indeed. They're usually built to struggle through off-road conditions and to be cheap, and few are capable of moving large loads- most are optimised for towing artillery guns at low speed. Many are sure to break down or fall apart all across the ROK, and as the advance closes on the south east it is likely that advance units in some places will find that a lot of their support guns are miles behind, waiting for new tows. The monstrous spectre of the PA’s advance does have a few weaknesses that build up over time...

There are well over 2,000 self-propelled 122mm MLRS, the Type-90D and Type-89D, the former being mounted on a 6x6 flatbed truck and the latter on a modified Type D-19 light amphibious tank chassis. These aren’t pinpoint accurate but chuck about a fair weight of fire.

11,000 DZSU-47-2 SPAAG support PA operations, with more than 3,000 already deployed to the ROK. The system is said to use more advanced fire control than the Shilka previously employed by the CPRD, if a little less modern than that seen in many recent western systems. Its heavy twin 47mm guns are not to be scoffed at, certainly.

Several hundred DRAR-1 SAM systems have been mounted on Type D-19 light tank hulls, giving agile IR-guided SAM coverage up to at least 12,000m ceiling. Many of these are attached to Assault Divisions in the south and are one of the first real departures from the capabilities of the North Korean military.

Now, the DPRK can call upon some 3,800 tanks and 2,500 APCs. If the CPRD kept up a similar ratio it’d have over 1/4million tanks and 175,000 APCs... and a serious fuel crisis. Instead the PA has more like 27,200 APCs of the Type D-192, an amphibious vehicle again based on the Type D-19 light tank. There are also ambulance, command, mortar, and recovery vehicles based on this.

Tanks include a number of types.

185 MT-3 Hotan main battle tanks are the finest available to Dra-pol. Built in Beth Gellert they serve as that nation’s primary MBT, and yes, they are named for the Secretary, being designed after his fairly masterful dismantling of several technically superior Christian capitalist armies in Dra-pol. For a time BG provided the CPRD with much technology before public opinion cooled in light of purported human rights abuses. DaKhiem’s efforts to acquire more tanks or at least spare parts have not been highly successful. These tanks though are fitted with advanced composite armour, electronic and laser countermeasures and a BGMKIII 125mm gun said to outperform most western 120mm weapons. MT-3s serve exclusively with Red Bamboo formations, many guarding DaKhiem, Pyongyang, and Kanggye, and just a few platoons moving into the south.

While still hoping to acquire more MT-3, DaKhiem developed a stop-gap measure in the form of the Type D-18 Supplemental Main Battle Tank, which, as the name suggests, was not meant to become the PA’s front line tank. It is protected by cast steel armour, thick but often of little use against top of the range modern anti-tank weapons. Some mount laser defence weapons based on the Beth Gellen system, though this is not uniform, owing to production limitations. Some mount ERA, though again this is not widespread. They are armed with a 115mm gun which is effective over short ranges but lacking compared to 120mm guns at great distances. In the rough terrain of Korea it is usually intended to have Type D-18s deny enemies a clear line of sight at ranges from which they could not themselves return effective fire. More than 16,000 D-18s are in service.

The Type D-14 medium tank is armed with a Chinese Type 83-I rifled gun. It is not meant to engage modern MBTs in direct combat, but to support infantry operations in difficult terrain. The tank’s driver may adjust the suspension as he negotiates Korea’s highlands. Again protected by basic steel armour the tank is not invulnerable, but is quite well protected against small arms and gunfire below that carried by MBTs. Anything up to 6,000 may be operational.

Type D-19 light amphibious tanks have lent themselves to many modifications, but still fight on in their basic form. They’re hardly imposing with 75mm guns firing smoke, chemical, HE and HEAT rounds and armour proof only to small arms fire, but they can move with amphibious and river-crossing assaults and provide light fire-support to infantry. They’re moving by the thousand, no foreign intelligence is likely to know how many as they’re intermingled with APCs, SPAAGs, SAMs, and so on, but there’s surely already scores of them knocked out across the south by ROKA and Quinntonian-partisan action. More just keep coming.

No one knows quite how many artillery tubes are available to the PA, but it is certainly tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands. Yes, a truly absurd amount capable of ripping Korea to bits. 75, 105,115, 150, and 190mm guns are used, with the last being relatively new and available in smaller quantity (still hundreds at least). This may be one area where the CPRD makes up for proportional losses against the DPRK, which was probably little more than 8,000 towed and self-propelled guns. The CPRD must have almost countless guns- it is thought to have as many as 75,000 anti-aircraft guns compared to 11,000 in NK.

Air force
The DPRK has 275 helicopters amongst 1,620 or so combat aircraft, with 70,000 personnel. The CPRD by comparrison has nearly 1,000 helicopters, 2,300 transport aircraft, 3,860 ground attack jets, and 5,500 interceptors and between 600 thousand and a million personnel.

Most of the PAAF’s interceptors are native build SU-15 capable of Mach 2.4 and armed with 24km range IR-guided DRAR-1 and 50km range radar-guided Mach 4.5 AA-6/R-40RD AAMs. Around 1,000 are FC-1/Super-7 and J-10 armed with PL-11 and AA-12/R77 AAMs.


Summary

7,000 assault guns, 2,000+ SP MLRS, 11,000+ SPAAG, 2,400 SP-SAM, 27,000+ amphibious APC, 22,000 medium and main-battle tanks, 12,000 light amphibious tanks.
48 million army personnel, maybe 75,000 AAA pieces, many thousand static SAMs (many of which are protected by bunkers and even retractable, as are many radar units), tens of thousands of artillery tubes variously towed and dug in, often to near impervious ‘HARTS’.

Deployed to the south or currently en route-
4,500 assault guns, 1,200 MLRS, 7,500+ SPAAG, 1,650 SP-SAM, 15,000 APC, 8,700 medium and main battle tanks, 9,000+ light amphibious tanks. Several thousand towed guns.
Thousands of assorted light trucks carrying fuel, munitions, spares, food, towing guns, and so on.
Over 5.4million PA personnel with more than 15,000 shoulder launched SAMs.

I’m open to hearing useful input, of course.
And hell, if you read all that, remind me that when this is over I owe you some time on one of your nation’s future RP projects... :)

...I think I've actually read every update you've ever made about your country.

It's the main reason why Kilean has become a Dra-Pol stalker, and has used dra-pol as a political boogeyman- sorta like the US can lump the DPRK in it's all-purpose 'bad guys" bin. A bad guy, yeah, and guilty of everything we accuse them of, but we usually tote out dra-pol whenever the heimatsversammlung is overviewing a new defense budget.....


Okay, fine- I can't take it anymore, I can't take the lies. I have a HUGE crush on Hotan! He's so dreamy!
_______________________________________________________________

Type: Heavy MBT
Designation: Pcz Mk. IV Cougar.
Weight: 81 tons
Appearance:
http://mercury.operationcitadel.net/~matthias/nationstates/img/cougar.jpg
Engine: A large, powerful turbine engine propels the Cougar. Although a break from previous tank engines Kilean has used, the turbine (made by Ostendt Motorfabrik Gmbh) because only it’s sheer power could propell the massive bulk of the Cougar. It is a more advanced and efficient model than the M-1 Abram’s 1960’s tech turbine engine. However, the power requirements basically nullify the efficiency, giving the Cougar terrible mileage- .4 miles to the gallon. The turbine engine-through an advanced automatic transmission that gives the Cougar great poor-terrain ability- drives the Cougars wide treads, needed to insure that it doesn’t bog down in muddy terrain. Although it can make some 40mph on roadways or hard-packed ground, it can only really hope for a 30mph speed on any sort of rough terrain, and even that carries a dangerous threat of jumping tracks very easily.
Crew: 4- commander, gunner, driver, radioman
Armor: Armor is where the Cougar really shines. The front glacis plate, side panels, and turret frontal armor have depleted uranium inserts sandwiched between armor-grade steel plating to the outside, and deforming composite-based anti spalling armor within. The main body frame is reinforced in places with tungsten alloy/composite struts, and the entire interior of the tank is lined with Kevlar anti-spalling fabric sheets.

The top and side armor is designed to “pop outwards” in case of a catastrophic hit to the front of the tank- similar to how the hood deforms to absorb impact in many modern cars- and the ammo bays are designed to blow out backwards. In addition, the crew hatches are fitted with explosive bolts to allow rapid crew escape if the tank is hit. A sophisticated firefighting system is also included, along with anti-gas filters and lead-foamed inserts (an idea copied from the soviet T-72) that give the Cougar the excellent NBC protection standard in all Kilean tanks. This is all in addition to good old-fashioned armor, which the Cougar has in spades, angled to greatest effect.

Armament:
The cougar is armed with a 120mm Kilean Waffenwerke smoothbore long-barreled cannon. High muzzle velocity is the main killer with this fearsome weapon. The gun is auto-stabilized for full fire-on-move ability, and is tied in to the commander’s laser/IR range finding& targeting system. Combat load is some 85 rounds, usually an even mixture of APFSDS, HEAT, HE. Secondary armament consists of an MG-87 mounted on the gunners hatch, and a 14mm heavy machinegun mounted on the commanders coupla, in addition to a coaxial 14mm MG mount.

Electronics:
Electronics: The Cougar is equipped with the standard KLM radio suite, for full integration with all Kilean units. In addition, it sports a reduced, local version of the Etronian BattleLAN.

This system allows tanks to have access to data on their platoon mates- fuel levels, ammunition, battle damage, etc. Night vision/IR is available for all crew members. The gun is aimed using a computer controlled laser-range finding system. There is also a milimeter-wave radar, although this is never really used for aiming the main gun, as it is mostly used by the “firework” system.

The “firework’ antimissile system is similar to the dazzler systems mounted on US helicopters. It appears as a small dome on top of the turret. It uses milimeter-wave radar to detect incoming antitank missiles, and directs a medium-powered laser to “dazzle” the seeker heads of the missiles, disrupting their lock. It is somewhat effective, although by no means a foolproof countermeasure. It is high-upkeep, and it is nowhere near as effective in foggy or rainy weather. It is also useless against non-optical/IR or unguided antitank missiles.

Deployment: The cougar has been shelved as a replacement for the ageing T-72 variants used by Kilean, shelved in favor of the "Lion". As a project, it just ballooned, and it's logistical requirements and weight placed it out of the "standard MBT" category. However, it has found a home in the heaviest armored units in Kileans military. Several guards divisions deploy the Cougar in large units, and some of the independent shock brigades use the tank.

The biggest single grouping of Cougars is (and looks to remain) 2nd panczer division. It was decided that the best tankers in the KLM should also get the most lethal tank- even if it did hog gas and was incapable of crossing most bridges. A heavy assault unit like 2nd panczer is basically designed to fight the toe-to-toe slugging matches the Cougar was built to take part in.

That was a lot of reading.

Just a few questions. No technical questions, just general ones.

1) It seems to me that most of your men are walking. Is this the fact (just to be sure)? I'm sure they can handle it but its much slower.

2) Are your forces trained in guerrila warfare or urban warfare? Guerrila it seems you are good at. I was planning on forcing your troops into urban warfare, because that is what my troops are better at.

3) Your special ops units seem to be better trained than your general army, I would suppose that they are better equiped too and receive preferential treatment.

There's a lot of transit carried out by simply walking, yes. We have deployed nearly fifty thousand armoured vehicles and thousands of soft skin trucks, and we've small underground trains running under the northern half of the ROK (though how much anyone else knows about that is debatable).. then there's hundreds of light transport aircraft skipping about -piston engine fixed wing, and helicopters. Certainly tens if not hundreds of thousands for troops have some sort of mechanisation, but hundreds of thousands or millions have to slog it out on foot.

The Drapoel are over all better at fighting in the hills and forests, as that's where they grew up, and where most basic training goes on. However, there are thousands amongst them, many by now officers, who fought in Hamhung and such in the Crusader War. The commandos (Red Bamboo and Banat) have often enjoyed some urban training. They're the chaps who by enlarge surfaced in the first two days, taking ROKA forces by surprise- when the massive, slower moving forces pile into southern cities it'll be a new experience for most of them.

The special forces used to receive phenominal funding and support, but of course that had to decline a little with the recession. Like the DPRK's special forces ours are relatively massive, meaning that the Red Bamboo are generally not.. the SAS, man for man, if that makes sense. They have better communications equipment (frequency hopping radios to give them secure channels, where as many regulars are still using ancient, unreliable, less than secure sets), they have SA-18 and SA-16 SAM instead of QW-2, and they have more of them per head, they also have more mortars, RPGs and machineguns per head. Their requests for air support and tanks will be more likely to receive a response, where as regulars only get support where its deemed important to a break through or such. Quite often -as in the thread at the moment where LRR and Kilean forces seem to be converging on an advance column- regulars will be left and expected to hold their ground until its convenient to back them up. They'll do it, of course, hold to the last, but that doesn't mean they'll always survive.

Wow ... millions of men on foot... a scary thought.

Your trucks are built (according to your post) so they don't have to use major highways. So I'm assuming that my missile strikes on major highways will have little effect on your transportation abilities (darn!).

Another few questions:

1) Is the military leadership of your armed forces similarly indoctrinated to the average pleb? Or do higher-ups in the military have a greater grasp of what the real world actually is? (now I know I can't use this against you but I am curious to know about it).

2) How do you transport the huge amounts of fuel? Through the tunnels?

Wow ... millions of men on foot... a scary thought.

Your trucks are built (according to your post) so they don't have to use major highways. So I'm assuming that my missile strikes on major highways will have little effect on your transportation abilities (darn!).

Another few questions:

1) Is the military leadership of your armed forces similarly indoctrinated to the average pleb? Or do higher-ups in the military have a greater grasp of what the real world actually is? (now I know I can't use this against you but I am curious to know about it).

2) How do you transport the huge amounts of fuel? Through the tunnels?

You can read about a lot of LRRMFs equipment here (http://s6.invisionfree.com/International_Mall/index.php?showtopic=95&st=0). Some of the descriptions might be a tad out of date or out of touch, though.

The LRRA is a good, while relatively untested, fighting force. While only so much of it can be mechanized, a very large amount of APCs, mostly tracked, with wheeled versions operating in units that go overseas, is operated by motor rifle divisions, which form the backbone of the LRRA armored defense. The SEP and CV-9040 MOD provide very good levels of ballistic and unconventional weapons protection, effective armement, and large (on the SEP side) troop capacity with relatively low cost and mechanical reliability.

The armored force, consisting of MBTs and large numbers of tracked APCs, would engage enemy forces en masse, on the less thickly forested areas of LRR. They would hold back and destroy as much of the enemy force as possible, with air and artillery support.

The assault infantry and anti-tank troops use a mixture of trucks, APCs, and small, specialized ATGM carriers, as well as large tank destroyers, artillery, and attack helicopters to engage enemy armor and infantry along the roads and in the forests which cover the majority of LRR land. They would perform hit and run attacks, ambushes, and slow down units in order for them to be hit by attacks by the armored force. They rarely if ever leave LRR on operational deployment.

The Uhlans are an assault infantry troop specializing in airborne assault and rapid reaction missions. Their training includes, besides the LRRA professional soldier training, parachute operations and assault engineering. They are usually deployed by aircraft, and are equipped with trucks and wheeled tanks.

Each LRRA detachment is used for different things, but combined they are still a highly effective fighting force. When combined with the LRRAF and LRRA helicopter detachments, they are devestating to attackers, while somewhat weak on the international deployment role.

Now, for the individual soldier and his training, motivation, and general likes and dislikes.

The LRRA trooper, be he/she armored, infantry, mechanized infantry, or airborne, likes their fellow troopers and has a healthy respect for human life.

This will be reflected in the LRRA's near total refusal to engage in urban warfare or harm civillians.

They are concentrated on the goal of protecting personal freedoms from greedy dictatorial regimes, preventing the expansion and often the survival of national socialisim when it harms minorities or other nations, and preventing ethnic violence.

You can probably consider the Uhlans the best trained LRR forces, but the professional army (about 3 or 4 million troops) is all pretty well trained, equipped, and humanitarianized.

Each LRRA trooper, in basic training, recieves a basic medical care course and many refresher courses. In fact, the LRRA has entire armored and motor rifle divisions dedicated to medical support and civil engineering. This allows LRRA troops not only to take care of their own, but to take care of others as well.

LRRA tactics call for assaults to be made as quickly as possible and with the maximum amount of firepower available. Tactics for dealing with snipers is to not give them a good enough chance to get a kill. In a sniper situation, an LRRA trooper would lay down suppressing fire while his comrades rushed foreward, and so on and so fourth.

"We can replace bullets, but we can't replace soldiers" is the most common message of LRRA NCOs to early recruits. They can shoot straight and with good accuracy, but there are almost no LRRA snipers.

The reservists and conscripts encompass the full percentage of the population that could technically be called up in the event of an invasion. This, however, is limited to people within the ages of 19 and 40 in good health and with family commitments that can be given to another family member. They would be given weapons, mainly Ak-47s or other basic firearms, and sent to protect their homes, mostly cities because small towns are usually within quick reach of an LRRA assault infantry formation, under the command of a professional NCO or officer.

LRRA professional troops are usually very lenient with conscripts being called up, and many are simply let go on minor problems.

An LRRA trooper will be as nice as he can, except when faced with a nazi population or a group of death squad or other genocidal people. There have been reports of LRR troops shooting officers in the elite units of nazi countries which have been invaded. While it does not happen often, LRRA troops can sometimes, under proper motivation, go into a berserker rage. Such was the case in antelopedia when batallions of Uhlans were sent against SS death squads. The Uhlans charged the death squads and ran many over with vehicles, the ones that were not mown down with automatic gunfire. Those who surrendered were shot on the spot.

In conclusion, the LRRA is, in the case of national defense at least, an effective fighting force with a humanitarian influence too often absent in armies of this day and age, but with the capability to, under certain circumstances, be as fierce and merciless as the most feared ancient warriors.

In the blossoming LRR economy, the military can be maintained at a very good level at only a small fraction of the GDP.

Guess I might as well do some writing about my nation too...

Political Structure

Hudecia, although technically a parliamentary democracy, has a rather unique government style. It has a Senate that is appointed by regional and local governments, a parliament that is directly elected and a Prime Minister who is also directly elected. It still has the remnants of the old party-based system, with major parties being the Conservatives, Liberal Democrats, and the Family Party. The Hudecian Nationalist Party was banned after their leader fomented a revolt in East Hudecia.

Military Structure

Hudecian ground forces have only begun to number over 1 million in the last few years due to large cuts in the military spending. That being said, the Hudecian Air Force and Navy spared no expense in building, refitting and expanding existing structures and equipment.

Ground forces usually try to balance out having anti-air, anti-tank, and regular infantry by mixing them all into the same unit. So, a single company of Hudecians is prepared to meet any type of situation. However, logistically this has become a nightmare, shown especially during the Bonstockian Wars.

Most of the current standing Hudecian Army was involved in the at times brutal street fighting that engulfed E. Hudecia for several weeks until the leader of the rebellion was killed during a firefight.

The strikes on ROK's transport infrastructure will make things a little less easy for us- we may be used to travelling over dirt roads and.. no roads at all in more extreme conditions up north, but that didn't mean we'd completely turn down a highway where we happened to find it. I don't want to give away everything ooc before it happens in the other thread, but the delays faced by the regiment recently bombed are the first signs of major supply problems hitting. A lot of Drapoel vehicles place fuel conservation as a high priority (since we suffered under lengthy blockade before) and provide good fuel storage- that does mean that where you knock out even a seemingly insignificant and fragile light tank you're likely to see high-risk efforts to recover it, if it hasn't completely exploded- it probably has fuel drums on board.
A lot of military personnel are actually pressed into carrying a jerry can or something similar half way down the ROK, and there's actually tiny fuel depots being set up throughout the PA's progress- just enough to fuel one or a few vehicles at each waypoint, so as to minimise the ill effect of losing such a station.
Apart from that, we are bringing a large ammount via tunnels, yes, though these don't stretch quite to the perimiter that's being set up, and so just ahead of that is where we're really starting to run into problems.

As for the higher ups.. well.. to a pretty high level most are hardly better informed than the common man. When you get to the most influention..or most trusted couple of thousand in the Central Directorature and such, you find that many are.. partially informed of the favourable quarters of the world. Some have been to the PR China, maybe to Beth Gellert or the African Commonwealth, maybe Lusaka, Vietnam, and so on, on official business.

While the subjets of government and political systems are floating about, I may as well mention that Dra-pol considers itself a democracy. Sufferage is universal at the age of just fifteen, in as much as that all citizens are officially able to contribute to the political system. That doesn't mean that ideas will have any impact, of course, nor does it mean that dangerous ideas won't draw the attention of the Banat. Still, you can put your concerns into a box at any local collective or district directorature, right next to the box through which you can inform upon your counter-revolutionary neighbours.

How should captured Dra-poel civilians and soldiers be deal with?

How should captured Dra-poel civilians and soldiers be deal with?


....you take prisoners?

How should captured Dra-poel civilians and soldiers be deal with?

Not sure yet if Dra-pol wants another participant in the thread. I was heavily invovled in the early stages of the Dra-pol Quinntonian War until I basically got my expeditionary force overwhemed by something like 10-1 in screaming foot soldiers.

My suggestion is that 1. you probably won't take that many prisoners. Dra-pol just aren't made that way. and
2. Just don't do it.

if this seems cold, ask Dra-pol what he thinks.

Armed Republic of Sino Political and Military Facts

Political:

The Armed Republic of Sino was orignally founded by a PLA expeditionary force. To cut the long story short, the Sinoese Military Junta functions almost like a one party state. The Command Council (located in a secret subterranean location) is headed by General Liu (one of Sino's founders).

The government is highly centralized and efficient. The nation is divided into several military regions (MR) and then military districts (MD). Life in Sino is to be moralistic and conservative as the Military Junta loathes the leftist subhuman liberal trash from the West. Public opinion can be made to the government through its local offices at garissons (though liberalist and anti-government voices are likely to be shunned or ignored). Sino's law is partially modelled on those of Singapore and China. The Military Junta also hires civilians into government position (even high ranking ones), if they are considered suitable, talented and worthy.

The Military and its propaganda is almost all pervasive. As Sino's policies mainly deal with extreme Chinese nationalism, the Sinoese are a highly nationalistic, conservative, discipline and militant people of China. It is said, if you tell a Sinoese to stand up, he or she will stand immediately at attention. In Sino, the sight of the Chinese flag is not to be missed as they can be found in most public areas, inside and out. Being a sacred piece of clothwork, the Sinoese show great respect for their beloved flag.

Military:

"The Sinoese Military is both formidable on and off the battlefield. One can not escape its presence in Sino."

- A foreign visitor.

Such a comment is quite true as the Sinoese nation is virtually the military enlarged. Every aspect of life is militant in Sino. Whether it be school children being drilled daily or the sight of uniformed men on a lunchtime outing in the cities. As the Military Junta considers itself to be in a state of war since day one, there had been no attempts of demilitarization. There is not exactly conscription in the normal sense in Sino but all adolescents have underwent basic military training and discipline in high school and those who are unworthy of university are sent to complete one year of compulsory military training. Most citizens from the ages of 16-45 are either members of the National Militia, or reservists. Their roles are more domestic defense orientated. Some corporations even organized annual shooting or grenade throwing days at military facilities. Often the sterotypical Sinoese is a trained marksman by the age of 15. The government endorse sports such as kung fu and shooting.

The ARSCF (Armed Republic of Sino Combined Forces) encompasses the ARSA (Army), ARSAF (Air Force), ARSN (Navy), ARSMC (Marine Corps), ARSSWF (Special Weapons Force) and the ARSAC (Aerospace Corps).

The Army numbers some 3 million regulars, Navy- 2 million, Air- 1.75 million, Marines- 2 million and the rest are undisclosed. All of which use state-of the-arts systems to pack that especially strong Sinoese punch.

Organization of the ground forces may vary from conflict to conflict but like all others, there is often variety in a unit . Being a highly mechanized force, the infantry are either in trucks or APC/IFVs, supported by the numerous MBTs and light tanks. There is a higher proportion of snipers and 'special marksmen' in the ARSA and ARSMC, although this has nothing to do with the fact that General Liu himself is an active ARSA sniper. The Sinoese infantry doctrine believes that sniping can mean the difference between a whole squad being slaughtered by a machinegun post or one shot one kill and the threat is neutralized. Sniper or 'special marksmanship' training isn't compulsory but soldiers of their kind look up to General Liu. Following on the Chinese doctrine, SAMs and artilleries pieces (especially MRLS) are numbering into the thousands. There are even MRBMs and IRBMs under their command.

The Air force comprises of 70% fighters (about equal numbers of J-12s and J-10s) and the rest being either bombers (mostly H-8 and a few H-7s) or transports (Y-9 or Y-10s).

The Navy currently have 6 supercarriers (flagship Chiang Kai-shek being one) followed by some twenty carriers and numerous figates and destoyers as well as engineering vessels and suppliers. The subs are mostly nuclear powered with either Han-II s (attack subs) or the Xia-II missile subs. A small number of diesel-electric subs are with the Navy or Coast Guard for patrol.

The ARSSWF is highly classified but all is there, the NBC and WMD (also in their thousands). ICBMs are exclusively under their command as well as other delievery systems. the deployment of most NBC agents require permission and clearance from the ARSSWF. Its cousin, the ARSAC is concerned with the SDI and the interception and disruption of enemy satellites.

How should captured Dra-poel civilians and soldiers be deal with?

Not sure yet if Dra-pol wants another participant in the thread. I was heavily invovled in the early stages of the Dra-pol Quinntonian War until I basically got my expeditionary force overwhemed by something like 10-1 in screaming foot soldiers.

My suggestion is that 1. you probably won't take that many prisoners. Dra-pol just aren't made that way. and
2. Just don't do it.

if this seems cold, ask Dra-pol what he thinks.

POWs aren't going to be many because the Sinoese don't trust 'em. With their low distinction between civvies and soldiers, best to kill 'em all. Because the ones who really surrendy have a hint of shine in their eyes.

OOC: From my previous posts, who thinks Sino is kick ass country to live in?

Ah, from language both here and in the IC thread I get the impression that Hotan's doing it again.

You'll find that as yet.. there haven't been many prisoners to take. The advance up to 30 miles across the Yalu following a Drapoel retreat at the first Xiannese attack takes the invaders across one of the less mountanous parts of the western end of the front, stopping close to People's Army fall-back defences. Troops in the advance will not have run across a lot of civilians, and will have found along the way that, after breaking a few earthwork defences and minefields on the riverbank, and a few bunkers or ..minor HARTS, they were fought by relatively small forces. As I said, the PA retreated with some artillery cover (from the fall back defences) ...it was a controlled withdrawl, however, and any important collectives were evacuated with the military as it rolled by. Civilians encountered will have been on little one family farms, really. A lot of the residents will probably have been killed in partisan actions, leaving only those to old or weak to fight or retreat with the infantry-based army.
Frankly it was a strain for Dra-pol's surprisingly welfare-heavy system to support them anyway (if you watch the UN rankings, Dra-pol lands in Asia's top ten more often than can be accounted for by high military spending et cetera).


Uh, long story short, as yet you'll likely only have come upon a handfull of civilians in the form of the sick and the old, and a couple of them probably had a go at the arresting soldiers with a hand grenade or something. A lot of them will presumably act like many Japanese civilians when the Americans arrived, prefering to jump off cliffs with their children than be taken by the outsiders they've been taught to hear- and I don't think there's much argument about the fact that Drapoel indoctrination is more intense than was Japanese, much as Drapoel isolation, and probably the Sinoese are more worth being afraid of than were the US Marines.

Promise of Joshua; History and Facts
POJ was originally created at the end of June 2003 as "The Promise of Joshua" and became the delegate for the region Cats; a region founded by a RL friend who later left NS. We moved to the region Allied States of Abraham and were named delegate after an internal struggle before being recruited to join the region The United Peoples of Abraham. Having deliberately avoided involvement in rp war to this point; we got involved with rp at this time with the Blockades of Niancio and Belmore rps on the side of the defenders in both cases. "The Promise of Joshua" was later decimated during the Tulip terror wars when both nuclear, chemical and biological weapons were used by terrorists within the POJ borders. The weapons were supplied by Belem but that could never be proved. I rped the effects of that in part by restarting the nation by dropping "The" from the name and creating "Promise of Joshua" at the end of July. The population difference was about 156mil which would have been close to the casualty figures for the time. Promise of Joshua was rebuilt rp with massive help from Quinntonia, HBF, Belmore and others.

One of the effects was the loss of at least some family for just about everyone in the POJ at the time. The current senior military and civilian leadership would all have come from that time and experience. One of the results was a military command structure that had people go insane during the period. I rped that in the Ulster wars afterward where Admiral Sosabowski had to destroy a POJ submarine commanded by a friend who was getting ready to nuke The Free Ulster Nation in a war that went on almost as long as the Dra-pol affair .

Another result is a current military environment where it is more acceptable to beg forgiveness for firing early instead of asking for permission or orders first. (ie: the early sub attack on the African Commonwealth carriers while in harbor during the "Commonwealth in Flames" rp) When I redesigned the POJ military, I do so based on a population total that was 256mil less than what the profile reflects at any given time. I rp that as resulting in an environment where the focus is on quality, efficiency, and first strike surprise to make up for lack of quantity.

All of this(except the AC Commonwealth involvement which originally resulted from the Dra-pol situation) predated the Dra-pol conflict and would probably inform the Dra-pol as to the nature of the Joshuan involvement in that affair on the Quinntonian side.

The civilian environment went from a capitalist, current USA era to a more socialist, everyone helping everyone else society because of the long term effects of the Tulip terror wars where interdependence and relying on those around you became both common and necessary for survival.

Religon, faith, and theology have been a major part of this as well. Religous practice continues to be strongly liturgical, but the mindset has become much more conservative over time. While nowhere near fundamentalistic; "evangelical" would be a phrase that would fit most Joshuan religous self understanding.

Involvement in the African Commonwealth crisis stemmed more from an Joshuan belief of understanding of where the Lusakans were coming from as regards having other nations involved on their own soil and the ongoing pain of the effects of war on the Lusakans in the disputed territory for no other reason than having other nation's desire to drive foreign political agendas on territory they have no right to. This may have started as payback for AC involvement in the Dra-pol business, but has since evolved in the Joshuan mindset.

The POJ military then became heavily involved in the Kilean/Dibujante war which saw a total victory and vindication of POJ arms. One division, the 10th Armored, served with distinction with the Kilean forces on the ground and had to be rebuilt/equipped after the conflict. There is now a permanent military presence in western Dibujante with Air, Naval, and Army/Marine base facilities.

LRR vehicles have very high fuel efficency. Partly because of military needs and partly out of concern for the environment.

Politically, very few things happen in LRR. Sure, there are some right-wing rebels and nationalist extremists, but they have little say in politics and are few and far between.

Elections are held very often, but little changes since the leadership is regarded as very good.

People govern themselves on the township level, which means that local ordinances and greviances can be discussed openly at very frequent township meetings. Laws decided by the townships cannot override laws decided by the regional assemblies, large and left-leaning government bodies which include a representative from each township.

There is no clear prime minister, but the country seems to be ruled, at least in terms of the executive branch, by a shady circle of people including scientists, humanitarians, generals, and social workers. LRR politicians are generally very well traveled and compassionate. They have an understanding of other cultures either through training or through personal experience.

The LRRA, however, is kept decently large because of the government's instinctive deep dislike of nazis and fascists. Also, the reserve infantry units are usually the police, but they dress in less military uniforms and are not professional soldiers but general police who are drawn from the local populace.

The LRRA is an extremely multiracial fighting force, with major races coming from europe, southeast asia, north-central asia (nepal in particular), and africa. They have always been harmonious and exist very nicely together.

A job is guaranteed, so factories and machine shops have very large workforces. Welfare and social security are guaranteed for every citizen, and emergency care is provided to anyone.

So, that's most of the political system.

When it comes to taking prisoners, it really depends. Like said, if the prisoners were members of some death squad, the troops would probably gun them down very quickly. If they were common or at least respectable soldiers, such as the Drapoel troops, they would be taken into custody and sent to a camp near Bedford Mallard, which is basically a town of prefab buildings with a wall around it.

Torture is illegal in LRR, and prisoners are not generally pressed for information.

The LRR populace is well aware of war, either through the comprehensive news stations or through time in the military. The people are generally supportive of actions to prevent invasion or to oust a genocidal leader, and the troops are very loyal to the government, provided it is loyal to their cause, their left-wing political stance, and the people.

I did broadly dismiss a lot of early attacks back in the first few pages when a large portion of people involved were failing to understand the situation.

Some people thought they were attacking the DPRK –a problem that I don’t think has entirely gone away. Others failed to read a lot about air defences and artillery threat –another problem that hasn’t completely evaporated. Others seemed to have the impression that the ROK wasn’t resisting just because it wasn’t player controlled –I mentioned in passing that thousands of casualties had been suffered by the People’s Army in rolling over ROKA positions, but the specifics did not seem to me important, rather background. There seemed to be a bit of... missiles coming from nowhere and somehow having targets picked out on the first day.
One of the reasons so many of our HARTS, for example, are surviving is that a lot of them are hard to pick out precisely from above (though there’s earthwork defences right across all borders that might be seen by satellite, they’re usually not even on the same side of hills as are the major gun batteries and underground facilities themselves). By now a lot will have been identified since they started firing, but that wasn’t going to be the case right away.. plus the sheer weight of fire makes identification and counter-battery fire highly impractical and over-loads human or automated systems. Most can’t be hit directly by missiles flying on a flat or fixed arch trajectory, as they tend to be on the reverse faces of mountains and such. Now, there’ve been airstrikes deep into Drapoel territory too, but the majority of our air defences are still intact. Dra-pol’s mountainous terrain blocks a lot of missile and bombing runs. Anything below 12,000m is subject to a massive blanket of IR-guided SAMs, these are small stations, many of which are easily hidden in the hills and many are retractable. There’s up to 75,000 AAA pieces- more than two for every single sq.km of republic, and of course they’re not generally spread like that. CS-400 can cover the entire republic and hit bombers/AWACs 400km outside it, or intercept even ballistic missiles and low-signature agile fighters out to 180km. There’s no certainty that the outside even knows exactly what it is that’s performing CS-400’s tasks, or how many we have. In truth commanders are getting worried about missile supplies, or we’d be using them on every unfriendly aircraft within 400km of Dra-pol.

Anyway, what I’m getting at is that I think some of the nations going all out against the north are missing what makes this situation unique. I saw in another thread someone (EI?) saying (IC, admittedly) that they didn’t think Seoul would be levelled- did they not catch DaKhiem’s generally communiqué in which the CD said as much? I think we used fairly vague terms, but at least one involved government (possibly Hudecia, I’m not sure) understood the implication. We’ve already bombarded Seoul on two occasions in direct retaliation for attacks on the CPRD- we fired chemical weapons in retaliation for missile attacks on the CPRD, we fired on blockading fleets and opened up on Xiannese cities in retaliation for attacks on the CPRD. It should be fairly clear that DaKhiem only takes extreme steps when its home soil is attacked, and that while fighting in the ROK they fight in a fairly conventional manner. The message from the isolationist republic is meant to be pretty clear- the fight isn’t for Dra-pol, if you come after us again this will be another Crusader War.

I also wanted to make clear that I’m not pretending our forces are impervious, we are taking a lot of damage, by now probably tens of thousands are dead. Sometimes its just not tactically significant, though, and I get a bit dejected when people just fly in and treat it like any other little war that comes along day by day in NS. I don’t want that.
Now, I’ve slowed down in the south to allow time for things to change and thinking and talking to be done, rather than just over-running everything and turning forty million men north.

I wish I could think of a way to break that down into a paragraph, but.. oh well. Our fire is seventy times more concentrated than would be the DPRK’s and that’s enough to over-load counter battery systems and flatten Seoul in minutes, mountains get in the way of munitions fired or dropped from distance, our tunnels don’t mean that just below the surface the country is a fragile honeycomb- most entrances/exits are tiny and run down different distances, even tens or hundreds of metres, before joining large tunnels, I... no, see, can’t do it.

Oh, I think someone asked about our chemical weapons- most are fairly basic, a lot of cheap mustard gas, but lately we’ve developed our own slightly more potent nerve gases. I’m not a biochemist or whatever, but you can probably get the basic idea by the term nerve gas.

Uhm, LRR, I think your reconnaissance plane will make it, most of our high altitude SAMs are limited to northern ROK and as far as ..Osan, I think, and in the CPRD- relocation of systems has been restricted by an increased need for home security and by bombing of major highways in the ROK.

I feel I have to mention that these lengthy rambles are pretty much for the benefit of people who don’t have time or inclination to read the whole thread in detail, or to do back research. That’s obviously a bit of a conundrum given that they don’t want to read all this crap, and the rest of you don’t have to, but might anyway. A lot of you have been great, and I appreciate the chance to get my country’s character out there and known, and hope to repay the effort in future.

I’m inclined to think I might just freeze the northern front and assume that a lot of people got killed and that’s that. The main point is that its making supply via China impossible.. although I’m not sure I’m happy with that, either. PR China is Dra-pol’s relatively friendly neighbour, our greatest ever leader was drumming up support there when he was assassinated... if there’d been some IC development to suddenly cut off our Chinese contacts that’d make sense.. but.. doesn’t it just seem silly that suddenly Beijing plays no part and maybe.. isn’t even there when previously the country bordered us? If anyone came along and tried to force an unfavourable change we’d have stormed in and stopped it. I suppose the Xiannese and Sinoese could be putting pressure on Beijing to halt supply to us anyway.

Gah, I should have had the ooc thread before starting, eh?

Would it be too radical to start a new thread following on from the crisis as it roughly stands, making it invite only and clearing up where everyone stands and.. well, the geography, or am I just getting over-excited? I mean, I think it’s been pretty good over all, but I’m also finding it hard to consolidate a lot of mess. It’d be clearer and not move on until I’d responded to this or that. I should have been more firm early on, but I don't like to say no until its too late.

I'd love to have a new, invite only thread based on the war as it stands. Keep the number of players down, make sure we're all on the same page, and go from where we are now, with the allies holding a triangle of southeast korea.

OOC: wow.. thanks Drapol. Pats self on back for understanding.

I don't usually care about numbers of casualties from Drapol, mostly I just want to know postions. I figure with 5-10 million men you can afford to let a million or two go missing and it wouldn't affect us much. (lol - speaks to the hopelessness of the situation)

I would like to keep up to date on how far your men are advancing, we can RP our own destruction pretty well. I think I know in general how it would work... if we run into regulars we face waves of human suicidal troops, if we face special ops we get pounded.

I wouldn't mind having another thread, I've been trying to be clear about where my men are but I know the situation is a little confused.

Kilean. LLR, Xiaguo and all other players, I guess the planned offensive will be put off indefinitely.

Once we get going again I should be more focused on the south then and able to give you better information. If I do start a new thread, the first post will be packed with info and then hopefully my posts can be a bit more focused after that :)

Here and there I won't mind people starting isolated actions themselves- the front of our advance is quite disorganised, and central command won't have much say in who engages first, especially since our intelligence is suddenly poor. When we attacked the south we'd spent years pinpointing everything and planning its dismantling, but we're almost blind when attacking the coalition's perimiter. When we're moving again, if I still bore people silly, invited parties can probably start skirmishes to keep themselves entertained until I and the Central Directorature catch on :)

HA I HAVE FOUND IT.

Now i apologize for my numerous ooc comments in other thread.

and i ask drapol-are u ignoring me? or my 15 thousand lb bomb strikes? Cause im pretty sure that they can punch holes through most bunkers, adn even you admitted that they're easier to find now that they started firing.

Although your mountainous terrain would be a great asset in shielding these attacks, 15 thousand pound bombs level entire...places... so a little more than a handful of ur bunkers would be at least damaged, if not destroyed.

And did you take the EMP attacks that i've been launching at you?

and no, i didnt thinkt hat Seoul wouldnt be levelled.

they're a bit too close to your guns for you to miss.

I wouldn't mind starting again. It's better than the mess it is in right now.

Beginning a new thread might help for clarity. If you do, I suggest that you use this current OOC thread to determine who exactly fits into the Closed framework, to avoid confusion as to who is involved.

hey, what about using puppets in this war? Kilean needs cannon-fodder, dammit!

No! :evil:

I'm working on a first post for a new thread.

I know I'm a pain in the neck, but could I ask once again for anti-Drapoel deployments in the south? I want to make it all clear in the first post where I'll give the backstory.

I've pretty much decided after talking with a couple of people that it'll be almost like starting over in some respects. No offence to anyone, but I'm going to have to go back to the original condition of having PR China as my northern neighbour, because frankly that's the condition that existed when Dra-pol attacked the south, and if there'd been some sudden massive anti-Drapoel swing in PC China, we'd have known about it and thought twice about starting a major war. There's not really any IC reason for new hostile neighbours to suddenly appear in my little universe where China used to be. Plus the north was just about to turn into the all out invasion of Xiaguo, and we don't want that, do we? As I say, I attacked the ROK specifically so no human player would stand to lose his country if I won- being Dra-pol we can't really support a vassel state with a semi-autonomous government; you'd completely lose your country.

That doesn't mean I will win, but if the possibility doesn't exist it surely takes some of the fun out of it.

Anyway, I've got that Kilean, Hudecia, LRR, and POJ are in some condition of deployment to the southeastern ROK, and that _Taiwan and Quinntonia are engaged in various degrees of support. Spyr has been pretty much alone in sending diplomats to Dra-pol. The northern border is PR China (and a little Russia, unless that ends up conflicting with Spyr-et-cetera's peninsula- Dra-pol hasn't had many dealings with Russia since before the fall of the USSR, so it doesn't really matter). That doesn't mean that no one can pressure Beijing to be less supportive than during the Crusader War- we'll probably have to bicker in the ooc thread on behalf of the Chinese government, depending on which side looks best to back to what degree, from their point of view.

Positioning of Kilean/ROK troops in korea:

1 Mountain division nearing Gumi on the Taejon-Daegu* road. Is in contact with advanced Dra-Pol troops and is mounting a fighting retreat with many local spoling attacks to buy time.

1 ROK division in prepared positions around Daegu. They are in a defensive posture, but ready to move- either to the west, or to retreat further south.

1 ROK division (provisional) in Daegu. Not as mobile, these troops are dug in and although an ad-hoc formation, have enough antitank troops and engineers to mount a good defense.

1 Kilean paratrooper division occupying Pusan. Prepared positions are continually being reinforced by these troops and local manual labor.

3 divisions (1 panczer, 2 infantry) unloading in Pusan harbor. It will take some time for the units of II corps to be ready to move and engage in combat action.

In addition, the 4 ROK counter-infiltration brigades are inside the allied lines, constantly sweeping free ROK territory for infiltrators.

Kilean also has ISD teams behind Dra-Pol lines, attemtping to organize some sort of resistance (they sat up in a valley while the Drapoel passed them by, etc)

*the Korean government recently relased new spelling rules for english translations of Korean. This leads to confusion, as many "p" sounds are now supposed to be "b" sounds (i.e. it changed from Pusan to Busan) and many "T" sounds are now "D" sounds (Taegu to Daegu, from Taejon to Daejon). I hope this clears up confusion.
_____________________________________________________________

At Jeju-do, many of the pre-fab hardened aircraft shelters are complete, and the very quiet Kilean effort to fortify the island is almost complete. Warning radars, SAM sites, and command bunkers are now all in place. Overnight, a huge wave of aircraft arrives. Kilean airpower has just been dramatically increased in the Korean theatre. In addition, the first Kilean Landsmaacht Luftkorps jets arrive in Pusan, giving the army access to the dedicated ground support craft of the KLL (the KAF is primaily for air defense/air superiority/strategic strike/air defense supression while the KLL provides tactical air support for ground troops.)
_______________________________________________________________

TOTAL IN-THEATRE KILEAN AIRPOWER:

Kilean Air Force
(12 jets per squadron)

9 Interceptor squadrons (Raven fighters)- 3 at Pusan, 6 out of Jeju-Do.
12 Tactical Fighter squadrons (Falkon fighters)- 8 at Pusan, 4 at Jeju-Do
3 Deep-strike squadrons (Gryphon strike craft)- 3 out of Jeju-Do
1 Electronic warfare squadron ('Basilisk' Gryphon variant) 1 at Jeju-Do
1 Theatre support squadron (misc AWACS/command craft) at Jeju-Do
3 Tanker squadrons- (tanker variant of albatros transport) all at Jeju-Do

Out of theatre assets:

97 "Donner" heavy bombers at Skarlswald and Ostendt AFB's. In 3 wings, have taken losses in Korean theatre.

64 "Visgoth" low-altitude penetration long-range bomber. All based at Neuwald AFB.


Kilean Army Air Corps

Brigade- 96 craft
Regiment-48 craft
Squadron-12 craft

2 tactical air support brigades (jaguar jets) at Pusan
2 antitank regiments (Condor prop-driven tankbusters each) at Pusan
1 air defense supression regiment (Wild Weasel A-4 variants) at Pusan.
1 close air interdiction brigade (falkon jets) at Pusan.

(In addition, one ROK fighter wing is now operable out of Pusan)
_____________________________________________________________

One more request/question: could I stil RP as surviving ROK forces, too? I think it could add an interesting political dynamic to the situation, with Gen. Lee and his pseduo-government in exile.

Positions of Hudecian troops: (I'll use numbers just to be clear)


Army:
20 000 taking position in and around Gumi
20 000 in position in and around Andong
10 000 north of Daegu *heavy artillery positioned on mountain*
10 000 at Yeongcheon
20 000 at Pohang *light infantry only - no heavy equipment*
20 000 at Ulsan *light infantry only*
20 000 inbound *light infantry - ETA anytime the thread starts moving again*
40 000 inbound *on boats loaded with equipment for other corps as well - ETA -24-48 hrs after the thread starts up again*

Naval:

In the Yellow Sea:
1 Elessar Supercarrier
3 Nimitz Carriers
2 Kitty Hawk Carriers
(total aircraft = about 750 mostly F-22s)
5 Iowa class battleships
5 Spruance class destroyers
2 Ticondera class Destroyers
5 Zumwalt class destroyers
40 Halifax class destroyers
30 Ulsan class frigates

Sea of Japan
1 Iowa battleship
5 Wasp Assault Carriers
3 Spruance destroyers
10 Halifax destroyers
5 Ulsan class frigates
10 AOR transports


Incoming:
1 Huron Battlecruiser
5 Province destroyers
15 Ulsan class frigates
50 AOR transports
4 Watson transports

Air Force: (based out of Ulsan)
100 Arrow II
200 F-18s
200 F-36Ts
100 Harrier IIs

ooc: Thanks, I'm working this all into the first post of the new thread, helps to know I've not put my forces miles behind enemy lines :)

This may sound like a stupid question, but Gumi- AKA Kumi? That'd make it probably the scene of the next big showdown. Certainly a major PA target and one we don't want, ideally, to reduce with artillery- boosting industrial capacity is something DaKhiem is after.

(Actually, that reminds me- some might be confused over the motivation for the invasion- it's unification rather than reunificaiton, you'll notice, since we're not the DPRK. The Drapoel do maintain that their ancient ancestors ruled a vast Korea-wide empire, but not in living memory have the nations been one. DaKhiem needs the ROK since the loss of farmland in Quinntonia's annexation of Hamhung. Of course if we got that back it'd work okay, too.. We're also after an influx of modern technology. Basically its all to keep us from choosing between starvation and absolute dependence upon international aid (or capitalism).)

OCC:


LRR Numbers and positions:

2nd AEF

199 MBT-5B tanks
400 CV-9040, CV-90 Rapier, and CV-9040 AAA APCs
600 John Henry IV wheeled APCs
1,000 M-925 trucks

40,000 troops

56th Uhlans

59 AMX-10RCT wheeled tanks
3,000 troops
about 100 various trucks

Incoming:

1st AEF (same as the 2nd, except with one more tank :wink: )

1,500 troops
30 AMX-10RCT wheeled tanks

20 Halifax class frigates
10 Broadsword class frigates
3 Duke class frigates
8 Sovremenny class destroyers
12 Iroquois class destroyers
5 Aluka class submarines
2 Iowa class battleships
8 Whidbey Island class LPDs
2 Tarawa LHDs
1 Truman class helicopter carrier
2 Clemenceau class carriers
3 Kuznetzov carriers

62 MiG-29KI fighters
50 Jaguar IIN attack aircraft (-10, 7 airframes wrote off, three in lengthy repair)
2 E-2 Hawkeye AWACS aircraft
68 Sea King ASW helicopters
around 40 Merlin HC3 transport helicopters
20 Tiger PAH-3 attack helicopters

positions:

2nd AEF:

northwest of Pusan, with a contingent gaurding evacuation routes

2nd brigade, 56th Uhlans:

southeast of Daegu, with patrols covering Highway 12 near Hwawon

1st brigade, 56th Uhlans:

south of Ulsan, gaurding evacuation routes and roads

fleet:

distributed along the coast of the pocket, with the largest amount off Pusan, around the five carriers

the iowas are near Ulsan with a gaurding force of frigates

positions soon to be occuppied:

1st AEF:

between Ulsan and Pusan, southwest of the 2nd AEF

Once you've got it up, could we have the URL for the new thread?

OOC: That'll mean it will be a major battle scene because Hudecian command (HC) sees Kumi (aka Gumi) as an important site for its crossing of the Hwang river.

If we lose Gumi it means there is no more natural barriers between you and the rest of the ROK. Looks like quite the fight brewing.

HC also views Andong and other river crossings as equally essential.

Okay, bear in mind that i'm half way through a bottle of vodka (all on my incredibly skinny (like a Drapoel, yeah) lonesome), but I'm about to post the new thread- I'm sure I've missed all sorts and made stupid mistakes, but ideally if you read it and see huge errors we'd sort them out here, I'll update to accomodate for them, and then we can get rolling. It looks like Hudecia's northernmost division is in serious danger, then Gumi, and after that its anyone's guess where this will go. I plan to go more slowly from now on- I never planned an ending to this, so we'll have to see what we can collectively come up with!

(I meant to post that earlier, but the forums crashed on me.. now I can't quit e see what keys I'm pressing, as I'm way into my vodka.. er.. oh! yes, the PA is swarming over the Naktong ... but with poor intelligence. We're going to take some serious losses when I get this going. Good job you have Hudecia, he seems to have identified showdown No.1. Can our light tanks and pre-fab bridges carry us over? can we make it down from the north or will our advance units be cut off ? )

Can you say Jaguar IIN?

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Gumi's gonna be a showdown? Alright....looks like the Kilean mountain troops are gonna be fighting harder and retreating slower to let our allies dig in...

And the Tecumsehs will be packin' some serious heat.

Well, personally, I don't think we'll be able to hold him there. I vote for trying to send him reeling just a bit, then stage a fighting retreat. We need way more troops before we try holding territory.

Well, personally, I don't think we'll be able to hold him there. I vote for trying to send him reeling just a bit, then stage a fighting retreat. We need way more troops before we try holding territory.

Another 40,000 troops and equipment are on their way.....

But really, its not like we can get a million troops into the pocket. We have to rely on our airpower and naval gunfire support.

OOC: Hehe... I was wondering when you'd look for those river crossings... that's why we rigged them to blow. (OOC: not as dumb as I look eh?)

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3089347#3089347

I think that's the new thread. I'm sure you'll have lots of things to contest about it- I'm a bit.. piddled.. so.. bring them up here, if you would! thanks! I will try hard to be flexible from now on (I'm a freindly drunk who'd be trying to hug you now, if he could see you.. er.. but.. IC you're all capitalist pigdogs doomed to die on my bayonet).

OOC: Hehe... I was wondering when you'd look for those river crossings... that's why we rigged them to blow. (OOC: not as dumb as I look eh?)

Aw shit. We're going to lose so many men.





...still, less mouthes to feed, eh?

But really, its not like we can get a million troops into the pocket. We have to rely on our airpower and naval gunfire support.

I've got 75,000 guys unloading and two whole armies (~ 20 divisions) getting ready to sail back in Kilean, but yes, you're right. We have to make like NATO in the 80's and use air and seapower to buy time until more troops can arrive.

Edit: Also- we've only got light troops on the front lines, but the three divisions unloading in pusan are the heaviest, most elite troops in my army. I figure, I couldn't get enough troops there in any case, so why have 5 normal divisions when you could have 3 really tough ones?

OOC: Forces near Dra-pol

6 Shang Zhou class SSGNs

OK I'm back in town. I will post deployments from approaching naval task forces directly in the thread. right now I have one airborne division in Pusan and another in Hamhung. Where my seaborne forces go is still up in the air :P

FYI: Kilean 7th and 3rd armies are now done loading in ostendt, and a fleet of some 70 transport ships with escort are heading out for the long voyage to pusan.

NOTE: Kilean divisions are large US style ones, with more artillery units than a normal division.

Kilean artillery doctrine:

If Kilean obsesses over one thing, it is weight of artillery fire. Kilean is always sure to include at least 1.5 times the normal level of artillery in any formation. Starting from battery level, Kilean artillery batteries include 6 guns instead of the 4 it is in most armies.

Artillery is not seen as an accurate weapon- that’s what the air force is for- instead, the KLM uses sheer weight of fire to supersaturate area targets in preperation for assault. To this end, Kilean equips it’s infantry divisons with huge numbers of towed artillery pieces. The workhorse of Kilean artillery forces is the soviet-designed M1987 152mm towed howitzer. (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2a65.htm)

These cannons are all made-in-kilean copies of the soviet design. Units of these guns are organic in large numbers to infantry and light divisions, and all told, a typical Kilean infantry divison has some 80 152mm howizers

In addition, Kilean uses 105mm self-propelled guns mounted on the Chasseur light tank chassis in all of it’s infantry, light, and airborne divisons. These are used to tag along with mechanized infantry advances, be airdropped in to support paratroopers, and to provide a “shoot and scoot” capacity far exceeding that of the clunky 152mm guns. An average infantry division can call upon some 30 of these vehicles in addition to their towed guns.

For Kilean’s armored divison, an all-self propelled layout is in order. The standard self-propelled gun in Kilean armored formation is now the PzH 40 , a 152mm gun mounted on the "Lion" MBT chassis. The soviet-designed M1973 self-propelled gun is being phased out, and currently serves in occupation units only. SPG’s are distributed approx. 72 to a Panczer division. In addition, some 16 105mm SPG’s may also be attached as the situation warrants.

Kilean is a big fan of unguided rocket artillery. Old-style katyusha truck-mounted launchers have been used for decades, although they have been phased out, in addition the german-made LARS rocket launcher which is dissapearing as well. The latest Kilean unguided rocket artillery unit is a 32-tube rocket launcher based on a tank transporter chassis.

In armored divisions, self-propelled rocket launchers (a la the MLRS) based upon T-62(k) chassis are standard, outfitted with 24 launch tubes for free-flight rockets. These rockets usually carry area-effect weapons, like submunition warheads and napalm, although HE rounds are used to batter fortifications.

It’s standard kilean practice to, after bombarding a target with conventional artillery, have all rocket artillery available flush their racks at the enemy right before a direct infantry assault. The shock value and ferocity of these barrages (although they are short in duration) is not to be underestimated. Rocket artillery is also the preferred method for delivering chemical weapons.
_____________________________________________________________

UNITS NOW EN ROUTE:

3rd Army: Largest concentration of Kilean armor in the Dibujante war. Saw major combat during crossing of the Santander River, the battle of Agrenida.

Units in 3rd Army:

6 panczer divisions
7 infandtry divisions
2 indep. panczer bde.

TOTAL: ~335,000 men ~3,500 tanks (mostly Lions, indep. panczer bde's use Etronian "Chasseur" light tank)

7th Army 7th army is comprised of the divisions that were raised for the final offensive in Dibujante, but never used. 7th army is powerful unit, led by veteran officers and with young, fresh troops. They have been built from the ground-up with new equipment and were the first unit to be totally equipped with Lion MBT's.

Units in 7th Army

3 panczer divisions
4 cavalry divisions (mech cavalry)
5 infantry divisions
2 mountain bde.

Total: ~310,000 men, ~2,900 tanks (Lions)

Other units being sent:

4 heavy artillery rgt's (12 8-in guns each)
3 theatre missile regiments: 36 SCUD TLE's each. Kilean uses the scud beacuse it's simple and cheap to manufacture. We have huge stocks of them and use them to mass-launch at semi-strategic targets.

1 cruise missile regiment- 24 longsword ground-launched cruise missiles. Destined for Jeju-do.

_____________________________________________________________

This is the force that Kilean has been trying to send to Korea this whole time. We've now got the ships in port, the naval escorts readied (although we always need more- hint hint allies) and the men and equipment loaded. Over a million more soldiers are currently preparing to move out to Korea. That, though, will take some time....

Thought I should mention this:

-Hudecian Military Organization-

The need for rapid deployment lead the Hudecian Command to shrink the sizes of divisions to only 5 000, corps down to 20 000 and army groups to 80 000.

It was found that although this created a lot of officers that the benefits of being able to rapidly deploy troops anywhere in the world offset the costs.

_________________________________


Also being moved to ROK is 20 000 troops every 48 hours, and another Air Defence Corps (300 planes - this time including A-10s and A-15s)

Damn, but you've got a good rapid deployment capacity. Kilean has a huge&powerful army, but as you can see, that creates serious problems with moving it....

OOC: I have question for Dra-pol. As you may or may not know, the Jing army has been occupied with conquering and pacifying Central China. We have a few common enemies, and I was wondering if you would be willing to effect a merger between our respective wars.

This would involve a major Jingzhou push through the Gobi towards the city of Linxi, from there you and I could flank and destroy Xiaguo's army.

So, what do you think?

Battle Fleet Peiper arrives off Pusan:

14 CVNs: Judah, Reuben, Midian, Simeon, Nathan, Asher, Levi, Solomon, Jehu, Jericho, Elisha, Elijah, Rahab, Jordan
*standard aircraft compliment includes squadrons of F14d and RF-11d Raysian Archangel aircraft plus SH-60 Seahawk ASW helocopters, S-3B multi-purpose Vikings, E-2C AWACS Hawkeyes and EA-6B EW Prowlers. **
45 Ticonderoga Class CGs
60 Arleigh Burke Class DDGs
8 Spruance Class DDs
26 OH Perry FFGs
7 AOE Fleet Resupply vessels
8 As-39 Sub tenders
2 MHC-51 Osprey Minesweepers

20 Seawolf Class SSN attack subs *submerged on outer listening stations*

The following landing force begins debarking with the Pusan perimeter from 50 T-AKR/LMSR Watson (Bob Hope) class transports and 2 Rt-S10 ALCTs(specs to follow in additional post):

11th Lite Armored Corps (from Dibujante theatre)
11th Armored Div(20,000men 400 m1a2 Abrams 500 Bradleys)
13th Mechanized Div(20,000men, 250 M1a2 Abrams 600 Bradleys)

3rd Armored Corps:
12th and 16th Armored Divisions (20,000men 400 m1a2 Abrams 500 Bradleys each)
3rd Mechanized Div (20,000men, 250 M1a2 Abrams 600 Bradleys)

9th Armored Corps:
8th and 9th Armored Divisions (20,000men 400 m1a2 Abrams 500 Bradleys each)
6th Mechanized Division(20,000men, 250 M1a2 Abrams 600 Bradleys)

4th and 5th Seabee Regiments(3,000men each plus equipment)

Offloading from 12 Wasp Class LHAs and 12 San Antonio Class LPDs and 1 Rt-S10 ALCT:

1st and 2nd Marine Divisions (20,000men plus 330 MAFV-1 Borden Medium Battle Tanks each) The majority of the tanks are flame equipped and the squad weapons are M249s and extended range flamethrowers(one each per squad plus M16s etc).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Details on the Borden.

Vehicle MAFV-1 Borden Quantity: (55 each for Marine Regiments)
Crew 4 (Driver, Gunner, Commander, Loader)
Length 6.45 Meters
Width 2.72 Meters
Height 2.13 Meters
Weight 30 Metric Tonnes
Speed
Road 78 kph
Combat 57 kph
Range 300 miles
Engine
1 x General Motors DRV-9a Water-cooled 4 cycle diesel
Armament
1 x Viking Military Technologies 130mm 1st Generation Electro-Thermal-Chemical Cannon
1 x Saco Defense Industries Mk 19 Grenade Machine Gun
1 x Fabrique National M240G 7.62 x 51mm Machine Gun
1 x Hughes EX34 25mm Chain Gun
1 x Laser Target Designator
2 x Four-Tube Thunderbolt IR/Laser-Guided ATGM Launchers
Ammunition
12 x ATG-1 Mjolnir ATGMs
30 x 130mm ETC Rounds
1,000 x 7.62mm NATO
800 x .50 BMG
Defensive Systems
Layered Ceramic/Composite Alloy Armour with 3rd Gen ERA on forward surfaces and on turret.
Laser/Infrared/Microwave Threat Receptors
Charybdis MkI Laser/Infrared/Microwave Countermeasures Suite
Triphammer Active Intercept System
Kevlar Mine Matt integral to crew deck
Fully NBC-Rated Life Support System
Life Support rated for operation to -48 degrees C
15-Canister Smoke Grenade System
Anti-Spall Coating on all surfaces
Engine mounted forward of driver for enhanced crew survivability
Optics/Sensors
Low-Light Systems for the entire crew
Turret-Mounted IR Sight for both Gunner and Commander
Full Telescopic Magnification on both Natural- and Low-Light systems
Low Probability of Intercept (LPI) Millimeter Wave Radar Set
Computer-Aided Target Recognition system
Communications
Real-Time Command, Control, and Communications (RTC3) Data Link
- GPS Moving Map w' position and status of connected RTC3 units
- Connected to Auto-Diagnostic system for transmission of unit status
- Zip-Squeal Text/Data Transmission Capable
Universal Adaptor Port for Wire Communications
Hardwired Intercom System
High-Frequency Encrypted Radio
Other Systems
Automated Diagnostic System
Enhanced Fire Control System
Unit Cost $6.1M
Prime Contractor Kotterdam Motor Corporation

Notes

While the MBT-3A1 was designed for sheer firepower, the MAFV-1 has been designed from the ground up for portability. MAFV stands for Medium Armoured Fighting Vehicle. It is a tough, agile weapons platform capable of packing a punch while not being too heavy to deploy in a hurry. The MAFV-1 was designed to meet the following requirements: Its dimensions and weight must be such that one can be transported aboard a C-130, two aboard an LCAC or a C-17, and four aboard a C-5 Galaxy. The last mobility requirement can indeed be reached, but requires that the vehicles be loaded on pallets, as they are just barely narrow enough to fit two abreast.

Weaponry:

Although designed to be less than half the weight and marginally smaller, the MAFV-1 doesn't skimp overly much on firepower relative to the MBT-3A1. In fact, it mounts the same 130mm ETC cannon, maintaining a kill-range of five kilometers, with an accurate range of seven kilometers. Like the weapon on the MBT-3A1, it is more than capable of firing HEAT, AP Canister, HE-FRAG, APFSDS-T, and the 130mm ETC version of the RAKE-T, as well as the newly designed Smart Top Attack Kinetic Energy, or STAKE round. On top of all that, it can fire the new ATG-1 Mjolnir anti-tank missile from the barrel.

For anti-materiel applications, the MAFV-1 carries a 25mm cannon by Hughes mounted coaxially to the main gun, as well as a Mk. 19 Grenade Machine Gun from Saco Industries as the commander's weapon mounted in an armoured cupola to grant him a measure of protection while firing it. The loader's weapon, a M240G machine gun by Fabrique National in the 7.62mm NATO, is designed to be quickly unshipped in case of the destruction of the tank to provide extra firepower for the crew.

Two four-tube Thunderbolt missile pods are mounted, one on either side of the turret to grant further anti-armour firepower above and beyond that already supplied by the main gun. In case of critical damage to the pods, or the expenditure of their rockets, both pods are entirely disposable, and may be ejected.

Defensive Measures:

The MAFV-1 mounts a quantity of layered ceramic/composite armour sufficient to defeat up to a 120mm cannon shot within its kill range even without the ERA mounted on the forward surfaces and the turret. No armour is impregnable, though, and a point blank HEAT or APFSDS-T shot still stands a good chance of killing the tank.

Rather than relying entirely on its potent armour, the MAFV-1 also mounts the new Triphammer Active Intercept System, and a full suite of laser, microwave, and IR threat receptors and countermeasures. Also, the forward-mounted diesel engine provides a measure of protection for the crew in the case of a penetrating hit, as well as being well-insulated against heat, and exceptionally well-muffled to decrease engine noise. The composition of the aerosol "Smoke" grenades has been changed so that the cloud not only blocks line of sight visually, but it obscures infrared devices. While the enemy will certainly know that there is a tank somewhere in that cloud of smoke, it lowers the probability of a hit when they are forced to fire blind. As always with KMC-designed vehicles, the MAFV-1 is equipped with a full NBC-rated life support system to protect its crew from environmental hazards.

Fire Control:

The fire control system on the MAFV-1 is based largely on the one currently employed on the MBT-3A1, allowing it to track, target, and engage multiple moving targets, even fast moving ones such as helicopters. This can be done in defilade, on the move, at rest, and even while swimming. The targeting computer is linked into a sophisticated analysis system with an adaptive database that will even suggest an aimpoint and round type based on the past observed performance of similar targets in combat situations. Equipped with a so-called AI similar to that in some of the more sophisticated computer games, the analyzer will actually learn the weaknesses of a specific type of target given enough exposure and is, of course, pre-programmed with the known weaknesses of many standard targets.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Battleship Group. Taking up offshore firing positions to support the perimeter and approaches to same

Battleships Padre and Raider
2 Padre(Yamato) Class Battleships (AEGIS) First turret forward of superstructure removed along with most secondary and AA guns and replaced with some modern tech. Superstructure modified to resemble Ticongeroga Class crusier(on a much larger scale) "Padre" and "Raider"

Speed:30 knots
Crew:2500
6 18' Guns in two turrets 1 forward, 1 aft
16 5' Guns in 8 twin turrets
8 20mm Phalanx CIWS AA systems
40 Tomahawks TASM/TALM Cruise missiles in 10 quad launchers
20 Harpoon missiles in 5 quad launchers
Mk 7 AEGIS system with 2 MK 41 VLS systems installed where old turret was.

escorts:

6 Ticonderoga CGs
8 Arleigh Burke DDGs
1 AOE Fleet Supply vessel
1 MHC Minesweeper
2 Seawolf Class SSNs

Blockade Group

36 Kilo Desiel Attack Subs taking up station with orders to practice unrestricted submarine warfare against non allied vessels and/or blockade runners

18 Oscar II Missile SSGNs and 6 Virginia Class SSNs deployed outside blockade line off Pusan and submerged (Senior Capt Zuriach commanding)

The Typhoon II SSBN Agamemnon and OHIO class SSBN Benjamin

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leaving Netayana for Kilean

The CVN Joshua, CV Caleb, and the Iowa (AEGIS) Battleship "Jericho City" with

10 Ticongeroga CGs
12 Arleigh Burke DDGs
8 Spruance class DDs
32 OHPerry FFGs
2 AOE Fleet Supply ships
2 MHC-51 Minesweepers
1 AS-39 Sub Tender
6 Virginia Class SSNs
48 T-AKR LMSR Watson class transports (empty)
2 RT-S10 Amphibeous Landing Craft Transports (specs below, also empty)
12 Tarawa LHA and 12 Austin LPDs(empty)

RT-s10 Specs
The Ferrussian Coalition of Defense Agencies (FCDA) recently announced the launch of a radical new sea transport: the RT-S10. The colossal ship is a platform for any major sea-based invasion, with an integrated LCAC (hovercraft) deployment and recovery system and a maximum capacity of 2,176 M1A1 Abrams tanks*.

The transport holds up to 60 LCAC hovercrafts (sold with the transport) and the 4 elevators can altogether lower 20 hovercrafts every 10 minutes. With 16 decks for tank/personell/truck transport, and another 2 for hovercraft storage, the space limitations are few. With space in the back for fuel and food (see schematic below), the transport is largely self-sustaining, at least for short periods of time. Additional supplies are recommended for any extended voyage, as is heavy escort.

The transport is armored quite substantially, as the capacity means that losing just one transport could be potentially devastating. It is equipped with a helipad, RO/RO ramps in the front for faster loading/unloading of tanks when at a major port, and quarters for the hovercraft and tank/truck crews. Loading and unloading MUST take place in relatively calm waters.

The ships are being produced as quickly as possible, but it takes quite some time to complete a single vessel. With the included 60 LCAC hovercrafts, an RT-S10 transport costs $6 billion.

Ship Schematic (IMPORTANT)

COST: $6 BILLION

SPECIFICATIONS
Length: 712 ft.
Beam: 273 ft.
Weight (empty): 73,345 LT
Propulsion: Slow speed diesel engines
Screws: 4
Waterline (at recommended max. cargo): 50 ft.
Crew Compliment: 182

Speed
Cruising (empty): 16.2 knots
Cruising (near-full): 13.9 knots
Max. (empty): 16.85 knots
Max. (near-full): 14.4 knots

Capacity
Recommended max. cargo: 197,320 LT / 220,998.5 tons
Overload max. cargo: 305,586 LT / 342,256.5 tons
Area per cargo deck (90%): 63,099 sq. ft.
Area per cargo deck (max.): 70,110 sq. ft.
Cargo decks: 16



ooc note: I figured out that an LHA/LPD combo would hold about 3,000 or so Marines and that 6 Watson class LMSRs would hold a full division of my Army (20,000men) I got the info used in those calculations from the globalsecurity.org site. I use the RT-S10s for equipment for my divisions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

additional edit

AF contingent flying into Hamhung to occupy old HBF bases. 2nd guards airborne diviision already on the ground by previous post.

18 E767 AWACS
20 K135R Stratotankers
10 K767 Tanker/Transports carrying maintence and ground personnel and equipment
2 squadrons F117A Nighthawks Adv Strike Aircraft(25 each)
1 squadron F23 Spirit Walker Adv Stealth Fighters
2 squadrons MIG29 Fulcrums
2 squadrons f16 Falcons
2 squadrons F15E Strike Eagles
4 squadrons RF11-d Raysian Archangel dual purpose aircraft

AF and Land based naval air contingent flying into Pusan behind the 1st guards airborne already deployed

24 AC130 Spectar Gunships for use by Kilean, POJ and allied groundforces
2 K767 Tanker/Transports carrying maintenance, ground personnel and equipment
2 squadrons F14d Navy Fighters
2 squadrons Rf-11d Rayasian Archangel Navy fighters

May I participate?

May I participate?

OOC: Jingzhou... you are a Feb 2004 nation trying to take on mid to late 2003 nations.. and if you haven't noticed several other nations are taking you on... as for flanking Xiaguo ... yeah right...

That's like Custer getting up onto Little Big Horn and telling his men...

"Alright, this is the plan, we'll surround them and wipe them out..."

ooc Well said Hudecia. Question: is there a link to a North/South Korea map everyone is using? I found several but the names of town/cities are different

I'm using the one through the link on MSN.

You go to Encarta, and click on the zoom map of the world until you reach Korea. Note: P's have been changed to B's and T's to D's

Guess I need to post the specs on the RF-11d Archangel.

Raysian Aerospace RF-11D "Archangel"

Specifications:
Classification: The Ultimate Multirole
Crew: 2
Wing Span: 35.84 ft (11.20 m)
Length: 49.63 ft (15.51 m)
Weight: 55,018 lb empty (but including QAAM launchers and standard load) / 83,122 lb max. take off
Powerplant: 2 Vectored-Thrust REPH-1100 Pulse-Det Hybrids
Max Normal thrust: 25,000 lbs
Max plus afterburner: 30,000 lbs
Pulse Detonation: adds 7,500 lbs

Aux Power: Two Raysian Aero Aux. Pulse-Det "Blaster" pods, each outputting an additional 15,000 lbs of force (for STO and quick accelleration)
Maximum speed (with only QAAMs onboard, full fuel, and all engines and boosters at full, and flying at 30,000 feet): Mach 3.5
Cruising speed: Mach 1.15
Range: 2,400 km / 1,500 miles
Service Ceiling: 69,000 ft
g limits: +13, -9 (So be careful!) Automatic Safeties prevent the plane from pulling unsafe g-forces and harming the pilot.
Airframe can stand up to 15gs
Armament: One GSh-30-1 30mm cannon on the nose, One Raysia Arms FC-216 Flak Cannon mounted dorsally (35 ammo), 2 QAAM reloaders (with 6 QAAM-28s in each, for standard load), plus up to 22,000 lbs of payload over 8 hardpoints.

Unique Features: The turret mounted Flak Cannon with 35 ammo, Quad-rudders/tails, 3D thrust vectoring, "Blaster" pods for STO ability, and all are Carrier capable. Radar signature easily confused for a Mig-29, and has SuperManeuverability comparable to the Su-37 or F-22. Has built in reconnaissance equipment such as a digital Camera. Missiles can fire any direction.

Computers: Advanced Autopilot to automatically land the plane on a carrier or runway in case the pilot gets knocked out or any other emergency like that, may be engaged by C&C or a wingman. The HUD is used in tandem with the "VisorScreens," which is a display projected onto the Visor of the Pilot's helmet, and uses a sort of compass in tandem with the computer that can allow him to see highlighted targets in any direction, even what used to be a blind spot beneath him or behind him. The 'VisorScreen' does not display the Altitude, pitch, and Speed like the HUD, as most pilots found this very confusing, but the 'VisorScreen' does control the Flak Cannon's direction.

Another cool new feature of this plane is its ability to interact with and control up to 2 UCAV wingmen from the Navigator's seat... something that can come in handy in situations where jamming is heavy and the UCAVs can't be controlled by long distance.

Include the fact that Xiaguo is full of international forces almost to 10million, even if you were able to flank the nation, you wouldn't hold it for long.

Xiaguo has formally declared war on jingzhou and begin sending armies from Korea to Central China instead to weaken the advancement toward Chengdu after their capture of Xia'an which angered the nation itself.

I call on all nations on a crusade against the Germans. There shall be no Aryans ruling the Chinese!

Include the fact that Xiaguo is full of international forces almost to 10million, even if you were able to flank the nation, you wouldn't hold it for long.

Xiaguo has formally declared war on jingzhou and begin sending armies from Korea to Central China instead to weaken the advancement toward Chengdu after their capture of Xia'an which angered the nation itself.

I call on all nations on a crusade against the Germans. There shall be no Aryans ruling the Chinese!

*golf clap from the POJ cabinet*

"perhaps if we volunteered to hold your coat during the, well deserved I'm sure, a$$ kicking?"

Include the fact that Xiaguo is full of international forces almost to 10million, even if you were able to flank the nation, you wouldn't hold it for long.

Xiaguo has formally declared war on jingzhou and begin sending armies from Korea to Central China instead to weaken the advancement toward Chengdu after their capture of Xia'an which angered the nation itself.

I call on all nations on a crusade against the Germans. There shall be no Aryans ruling the Chinese!

*golf clap from the POJ cabinet*

"perhaps if we volunteered to hold your coat during the, well deserved I'm sure, a$$ kicking?"

Netanya Naval Base

the last Tarawa/Austin division size RDF;s left this morning carrying elements of the 5th Marine Dvision. The rest of the Division is rumored to have left by C141 for our newly occupied bases in Hamhung
Pusan
the 5th Seabee Regiment leaves towards the east aboard a Watson Class t-AKR with quipement stored on an Rt-s10. Escorts include a Ticongeroga class CG, a Spruance class DD and 2 OHPerry FFGs
The Isle of Daeron; 160 km south of Hanhung in the Sea of Japan; Capt Wittmann Spec Ops team

sir. the island is perfect for our uses.

Hamhung air base

Major General Franz Peiper boarded the C141 with elements from his 1st para Regiment. this wouldn't be a combat drop(or so he was told) but it would be under wartime conditions.

For the reccord, in Part II, I'm just clearing things up and using "RL" PR China as my northern neighbour as prior to this RP, it makes more sense. I.. don't really want to get involved in the Germanic invasion of China, and like.. hm.. Spyr? said, it'll just have to be another part of the multiverse, I think. DaKhiem would not support the invasion of China, and would probably send a light division to back-up Beijing, far from helping Jingzhou.. China's been historically too important to Dra-pol, providing the only realistic possibility for supply while under naval blockade. To become too heavily involved up north again would make it an entirely different and more confusing RP than the one I set out upon. Mostly want to use that end of things for working on diplomacy with the [name forgotten, again] peninsula and character interaction with the Beth Gellen Stalinist underground. Oh, plus, I've just realised, Kilean, Banat agents could get out that way and have a go at starting that trouble :)

*is nervous*

General Lee Gemby, Commander-in-Chief of the Quinntonian Dra-pol armed forces has just announced that the government of The Colony of Quinntonian Dra-pol has just signed a lease to be renewed yearly for a large, if agricultuarlly unsuitable island to the north of their island chain.
the surprising sum of this island, considering its importance to the chain, is an astounding $1USD.
The nation that has decided to lease the island is, our old and favored ally, POJ. General Gemby pionts out that the island is now considered to be POJ territory and any attacks coming from or being staged in that island will mot be in breach of the international promise that Quinntonian Dra-pol made to not allow any Coalition forces to attack from our territory.
The island will be re-named The Isle of Dearon. It has a natural harbour and lots of flat areas, but the soil is saturated with sulphur from a relatively dormant volcanoe, and thus can only support a small native population of less than 2 million persons, all of whom are given the option to swear alligience to POJ or be deported off the island.
WWJD
Amen.

Prime Minster Jesse son of Obed has decreed that three Naval Battle Groups under the command of Commandante Douglas Hutt are already on their way to Kilean to act as naval escort for their armies as an act of friendship, however, we will not be able to enter the conflict zone and will only attack those vessels that attack us, or those under our protection
WWJD
Amen.

The battle Groups Mathew, Mark and Luke are being sent
Each consists of-
2-Nimitz Class Aircraft Carriers-6
6-Kruger Class Cruisers-18
8-Stingray Class Destroyers-24
4-Attack Subs- Orca Class-12
I hope this will help give you some peace of mind.
BTW, each Carrier holds 32 Horsmen Mark V Fighter, specially equipped for anti-ship actions.
Again, this should not be construed as hostile action, I will not enter the conflict zone with this fleet and they will only be used if fired upon.

WWJD
Amen.

Kilean: don't forget these, they should be available to you by now.


Leaving Netayana for Kilean

The CVN Joshua, CV Caleb, and the Iowa (AEGIS) Battleship "Jericho City" with

10 Ticongeroga CGs
12 Arleigh Burke DDGs
8 Spruance class DDs
32 OHPerry FFGs
2 AOE Fleet Supply ships
2 MHC-51 Minesweepers
1 AS-39 Sub Tender
6 Virginia Class SSNs
48 T-AKR LMSR Watson class transports (empty)
2 RT-S10 Amphibeous Landing Craft Transports (specs below, also empty)
12 Tarawa LHA and 12 Austin LPDs(empty)

RT-s10 Specs
The Ferrussian Coalition of Defense Agencies (FCDA) recently announced the launch of a radical new sea transport: the RT-S10. The colossal ship is a platform for any major sea-based invasion, with an integrated LCAC (hovercraft) deployment and recovery system and a maximum capacity of 2,176 M1A1 Abrams tanks*.

The transport holds up to 60 LCAC hovercrafts (sold with the transport) and the 4 elevators can altogether lower 20 hovercrafts every 10 minutes. With 16 decks for tank/personell/truck transport, and another 2 for hovercraft storage, the space limitations are few. With space in the back for fuel and food (see schematic below), the transport is largely self-sustaining, at least for short periods of time. Additional supplies are recommended for any extended voyage, as is heavy escort.

The transport is armored quite substantially, as the capacity means that losing just one transport could be potentially devastating. It is equipped with a helipad, RO/RO ramps in the front for faster loading/unloading of tanks when at a major port, and quarters for the hovercraft and tank/truck crews. Loading and unloading MUST take place in relatively calm waters.

The ships are being produced as quickly as possible, but it takes quite some time to complete a single vessel. With the included 60 LCAC hovercrafts, an RT-S10 transport costs $6 billion.

Ship Schematic (IMPORTANT)

COST: $6 BILLION

SPECIFICATIONS
Length: 712 ft.
Beam: 273 ft.
Weight (empty): 73,345 LT
Propulsion: Slow speed diesel engines
Screws: 4
Waterline (at recommended max. cargo): 50 ft.
Crew Compliment: 182

Speed
Cruising (empty): 16.2 knots
Cruising (near-full): 13.9 knots
Max. (empty): 16.85 knots
Max. (near-full): 14.4 knots

Capacity
Recommended max. cargo: 197,320 LT / 220,998.5 tons
Overload max. cargo: 305,586 LT / 342,256.5 tons
Area per cargo deck (90%): 63,099 sq. ft.
Area per cargo deck (max.): 70,110 sq. ft.
Cargo decks: 16



ooc note: I figured out that an LHA/LPD combo would hold about 3,000 or so Marines and that 6 Watson class LMSRs would hold a full division of my Army (20,000men) I got the info used in those calculations from the globalsecurity.org site. I use the RT-S10s for equipment for my divisions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

additional edit

AF contingent flying into Hamhung to occupy old HBF bases. 2nd guards airborne diviision already on the ground by previous post.

18 E767 AWACS
20 K135R Stratotankers
10 K767 Tanker/Transports carrying maintence and ground personnel and equipment
2 squadrons F117A Nighthawks Adv Strike Aircraft(25 each)
1 squadron F23 Spirit Walker Adv Stealth Fighters
2 squadrons MIG29 Fulcrums
2 squadrons f16 Falcons
2 squadrons F15E Strike Eagles
4 squadrons RF11-d Raysian Archangel dual purpose aircraft


The above force will transfer to Daeron as facilities become available

The 5th Seabee Regiment will be the first to arrive followed by the 2nd Guards Airborne Division(portions doing a jump); both units placed in route yesterday (rl) and the 5th Marines which embarked from Netanaya yesterday(RL). work on facilities is probably underway bu not complete.

yeah, 3rd and 7th armies will be on the way soon, with more to follow.

with the heudecian escort ships, POJ battlegroups, and over 80 bright shiny new transport ships, the troop convoys will become more frequent and intense.

hell, once two kilean field armies get here, we can think about an offensive!

Stzaagtpanczer Lowen

The Lowen (Lion) was in preliminary development stages when the Kilean Heimatsversammlung was burnt down and the crisis with dibujante broke out. Although in development for some time, the Lion was not a rush project- the T-72 ausf.K was considered sufficent, and the Cougar was being pushed as the new battle tank for Kilean. The Total War Mobilization act, however, as well as combat experience against Dibujante, showed that the T-72 ausf.K was insufficent as a modern combat tank.

Although Kilean military planners had become nervous after the Gulf War- seeing US Abrams tanks rip apart Iraqi T-72's- it was considered that the upgrades of the ausf.k (the "super 72") would let it remain competitive on the modern battlefield. For Kilean, the last straw came when news of fuel depletion among gas-guzzling Cougar units coincided with news that Promise of Joshuan Abram's- confusing the ausf.k's for Dibujantean T-72's- were regularly penetrating side and even frontal armor in friendly fire incidents.

After this, Lion development became a crash program under the aegis of Ostendt Motorfabrik, Polzn Autowerke, and the Kilean War Academy. In lieu of prototype testing, the first five tanks were thrown into combat in Agrenida, where terrible problems with their automatic transmission and turbine engine meant that four out of the five were combat ineffective within four hours.

The rest of the war saw the problems corrected, but the Lion never saw combat in large numbers. Instead, the massive numbers rolling of the production lines of Kilean's converted automotive factories were used to equip the "new divisions" raised to end the war in Dibujante. Now, the phase-out of the T-72 ausf.k is complete, and it equips paramilitary units and Armed Forced of the Republic of Dibujante (AFRD) units only.

The Lion is a blend of Soviet and Western influences on Kilean tank design. The gun chosen is a 125mm rifle. Instead of a 120mm smoothbore, the Kilean design team chose this gun beacuse of greater range and accuracy, and beacuse the larger shell would offset losses in muzzle velocity over a smoothbore gun. In addition, it allows the Kilean army to draw on existing stocks of 125mm ammunition.
_____________________________________________________________

Lion MBT

http://mercury.operationcitadel.net/~matthias/nationstates/img/lion.jpg

Primary contractors: Ostendt Motorfabrik, Polzn Autowerke, Kilean government. Produced at 12 facilities throughout Kilean by a variety of contractos.
Weight:62 tons (loaded)[/b]
Engine: Ostendt Motofabrik pczT-3400 turbine
Mileage: 2.4 miles per gallon (under ideal conditions)
Speed: 47 Mph speed in open country. Much less in difficult terrain.
Crew: Three; driver, gunner, commander/systems operator.
Radio: KLM standard set- medium range frequency hopping, 56k encrypted wireless modem on command variants.
Fire Control: stabilized gun, laser rangefinding along with passive IR. Fire control system is able to display priority targets and other basic tactical data sent by platoon commander. System capable of accurate main gun fire out to 2 miles while moving at combat speeds.
Armament:
1 Kilean Waffenwerke 125mm rifled cannon (45 rounds stored)
1 14.5mm MG coaxial to main gun (1,500 rounds ready)
2 MG-87 MG's on gunner's, commanders hatches- (2,000 rounds each)
1 55mm mortar internal to turret (25 rounds)
Armor: DU inserts for glacis plate and turret face. Rolled steel with composite reinforcement elswhere. Crew compartment has anti-spalling layer. Overall average level of protection. Special attention given to protection against molotiv cocktails, mines.
____________________________________________________________

The Lion is now the primary battle tank of the Kilean army. It is deployed in Korea in the armored units of 1st infantry division and 3rd infantry division. It is a balanced tank, with a slight preference given to speed and fire control over armor and firepower. Experience against human-wave attacks in the Dibujante war has led to the development of anti-infantry systems that are fitted to most Lions by the time they arrive in the field. Most common are the "beehive" 125mm flechette rounds and the coupla mounted 40mm grenade launcher.

May I participate?

Anyone?

Drapol... Garrison II is asking you!

Perhaps the best way to get his attention is to TG him... sorry, this is Drapol's show.

Dra-Pol: could I have more operational level detail of what you're doing? beacuse I think that what you wanted the gumi crossing to be and what I thought it was were very different things. If you could give me a rundown of how many men (and how many divisions/brigades, whatever) are making the attack, I can react to it in a much more fair way.

I just assumed that with gumi being the southernmost point of contact with allied forces (right?) that those troops would be the vanguard of a much larger force, and that any attempt to take gumi right away would fail.

but, just for OOC purposes: that mountain division is now pretty much useless as a fighting force, and holding gumi is going to mostly fall to General Lee.

Erm, well, lets see.. Gumi was going to be subject to a pretty major assault, with the attackers around already being just the front of such, but their main support was to come down the west, and that has been in my estimation subject to the most serious anti-Drapoel airstrikes... the units advancing to back up the assault on Gumi and there about suffered heavy losses when Hotan decided not to afford them priority SAM and fighter support, instead favouring his captured airfields.
As a result there's really one assault division and some commando units throwing themselves at the river/town, and some broken parts of other formations. Those being from airborne insertions cancelled half way through when the skies became seriously unsafe, some forward elements of the reinforcements who found it easier to keep going than to stop/turn back/scatter when attacked from the air, and so on.
So, in total a few tens of thousands (maybe up to 40,000ish) men with light AV support are really concentrated on the Gumi area. They're still behaving pretty much as if they were part of an entire army of hundreds of thousands, though, as they've had no other orders and most don't know any other way of fighting.
As such the force is diminishing pretty rapidly, and its likely that in a while all that's left will be commando units trying to avoid major contacts.

The PA is still trying to get bigger units down the west, but its all been delayed as they largely give up on moving big columns down major highways while proper cover isn't available. Men are just swarming over hills with whatever they can carry and whatever vehicles can struggle after them, but it'll take time for them to arrive like that. It might be difficult on the ground to know exactly when they arrive- I'd imagine the attacking force will gradually diminish, then start to swell again as more units start to arrive in relative disorder.

The original plan of course was for the assault division at Gumi to start the attack there while much larger forces attack up around Andong and start to push down, then a similarly large force would eventually arrive at Gumi from the west. It's coming a bit unstuck, but the Drapoel will be damned if they're not sticking to their guns :)

Erm, Garrison II, I suppose I can't really say no- in reality the whole UN would probably be coming down on us. It's modern tech, of course, and participants are expected to recognise the serious nature of things (accept that Dra-pol isn't quite your every day jingoistic dictatorship and that cities like Seoul and Hamhung are essentially held to ransom just now) and act realistically, but that's about it, I think.

Uf, I'm half asleep.

alright, well- 40,000 men against 25,000 angry south koreans and 8,000 ragged Kilean effectives?

We're outnumbered, but then again, the fact that our soldiers have grown up with good nutrition may just win the day.

If that doesn't then the flexible Kilean officer corps will. In any case, I think that we'll be able to hold gumi unless hordes of drapoel arrive- if they even arrive at all.

I dunno. I think the hardest part of this war will be kicking the Dra-Pol out of northern ROK. I don't think they'll be in Pusan anytime soon, but, uuh....I don't think we'll be in Seoul without one hell of a fight.

Indeed. With Hudecians and LRR we probably don't outnumber you at all, around Gumi as a whole, it's just that we're behaving as if we do. If the attack did succeed, it'd never hold the land anyway.

Of course, it's still a big fight that must be fought, and there are millions of Drapoel swarming down the east who might, if they get their way, eventually arrive at Gumi from the other direction.

Agreed... I have 20 000 troops in Gumi...

As for the assault up north by Andong... the biggest problem is crossing the river. A quick counterthrust by a large army could chase you back across it, for the time being... until a much larger army tries to cross it.

Oh, there is a large army trying to cross up there (Andong).. they're coming around the east side, too.. that far north the advance is near full strength. We're having massive trouble down the west coast and into the far south, but up there millions of men are on the move.

Just an aside, something of an excuse, really... bear in mind that Dra-pol has to respond to just about every action by everyone in the thread, where as most of you have to be primarily concerned with only my posts. That's just to say that sometimes I won't get out more than one uber-post in a day (though I may be thinking about it while I potter about my pointless life :) ). Sometimes big leaps such as... Hudecian ships getting to Hamhung... would see Drapoel reaction (after all, there's millions of my characters, and only one of me!) before I have chance to tell you about it. Bear in mind that the port of Hungnam (at Hamhung) is within range of tens of thousands of Drapoel guns including hundreds of HARTS, and of Drapoel missile bases, airfields, and so on.
That's just an example.

oh.. my mistake.. .I was under the impression that Hamhung was safe... oh well... consider that part of my post deleted.

Going around the east part would put you in range of my fleet on that side of the peninsula. (see my position postings - I had split my fleet)

I wasn't assuming you were coming from that direction but I do have enough men to slow you to a crawl on that side as well. As well, you'd have to fend off strikes from my fleet. (and the fleet has air cover from Pohang). Not to mention the fact that there are only two main roads east of Andong. Both of which are within range of my troops stationed ontop of the mountain by Cheongseon. (do I hear massacre?) If you try to advance on foot without roads your men would have to be ubertroopers to be able to get through and still have the energy to fight at the end of it all.

As for crossing the Hwang-gang river... we've been blasting at those crossings for quite some time. Although you may have millions of men on one side of the river it will be hard to get them all across in any amount of time. As well, with no heavy armour (since there are no bridges), Drapol infantry would be scrambling to try to fend off an armoured assault. Air strikes against my armour would have to fight the fighters there too.

And since your latest attack on my carrier fleet would have drained a lot of your aviation fuel I'm assuming that the remnants of your airforce are inactive for the time being.

how quickly should I move units to korea? it just seems that major combat is heating up....

I mean, how much time has passed here? we've got a lot of assistance and have been snatching up ships.

I aim to have 500,000 men arriving soon, but...just wondering if it all checks out okay.

A lot of time seems to have gone on outside Korea... with the exception of Hudecia, whose ships were already at Japann, and whose reinforcements came in on civilian aircraft without their heavy equipment, everyone seems to have materialized fleets off the coast, and landed large troop numbers. The CPRD has been advancing, without pause, and has only recently slowed down. We're talking in the area of a week having passed (unless Dra-pol has a better timeframe... its not entirely clear, but its certainly not very long. Could be a matter of days).

It should take some time for ships to be gathered, troops prepared and boarded, ships set out and make the journey, then docking and unloading... they certainly shouldnt arrive for a little while, at least.

Yeah.. again I'm sort of in agreement with Spyr.. but I'm trying to be flexible. I don't want to tell anyone else how fast they can react, and I don't want to make anyone else miss all the action. Still, I gather that the CPRD completely surprise.. everyone with this move, and should probably have had days? Weeks? Without major multinational interference. That said, without other nations arriving fast, the RP wouldn't have been much fun- the ROKA could never have resisted the People's Army for more than a few days.

So, like I say, I'm trying to be fairly liberal with it all, and I've been trying to react to other people's deployments of so many tens of thousands of men, after being completely surprised, by saying that the PA has begun to heavily consolidate its early gains in the north.

I'm not sure.. is that fair? If you (every one else :) ) have gone from next to no attention on Korea to deploying tens or hundreds of thousands of troops and hundreds of billions of dollars of ships and planes, we (..I) have, after decades of preperation, in the meantime begun to dig in up north and have positioned SAM batteries, anti-shipping missiles, and begun to operate from ROK military positions? Oh, and if other nations have shipped tanks out of reserve, across the sea, into the field, and driven them up to Andong and such, we've certainly in the meantime driven ours from a few dozen miles away to..uh.. Andong, right? I mean, the full might of the People's Army is justified in coming down on the Andong front, isn' it? We're getting the pi...ddle kicked out of us at Gumi, I accept that, certainly.

Lots of question marks, because I'm still open to new input.


Oh, my, I've not slept.. and I think I'm still hungover, somehow.. can't stop shaking.. heh.. oh..

I was already sending troops to fight a major war in Yemen and one of our stops to refuel was Tokyo (I did post that in the Bonstock invades Yemen.. I think).

Then.. when I learned of the invasion of ROK and the end of hostilities with Bonstock, I had about 40 000 men and an invasion fleet right on the doorstep and about 40 000 more just about to leave, all with heavy equipment. I actually was expecting to fight a naval engagement with Bonstock (who had 6 carriers so I decided to match) and a large armoured land battle. That's where those tanks came from.

Still, that is not enough men to hold you off. So I, 'acquired', about 200 civilian airliners to begin ferrying in troops armed with essentially only their guns in hand. Assuming each air liner was only carrying 100 people each flight. (they were built for more but I decided to be fair, decrease the number of passengers to account for the weight of the guns). So 100 x 200 = 20 000

A trans-pacific flight takes a full day (recovery time for jet lag too).

I was assuming that we were travelling at the rate of 1 RL day = 1 RP day for the most part.

Well I've allowed minimum 24 hours RL to pass between my posting forces leaving and then arriving. My initial posts were originally on the other thread and I had to duplicate them but then felt ok with starting deployment ops.

edit: also my nation was at a high level of readiness due to the dibujante war

I disagree with parts of Dra-pols post about being able to throw millions upon millions into the fray (12mil per year?). People are not born in a vaccum and sooner or later your infrastruture will collapse. I reference Iran in the Iran/Iraq war and russia in WWI. Were you on your home turf things would be different, but your forces are the invaders and despite indoctrination to the contrary, your troops will probably have a pretty good idea when they are outside their home area.

That said, Dra-pol you have always kicked serious a$$ when it comes to quality rp and I'm glad to be a part of it.

I will post ic later in response to a few things but I'm trying to slow down a bit so you can get more detail and enjoy this despite how many people you have to respond to.

I was pretty drunk last night, and of course can't send all 12million each year, but then NS populations don't co-operate with reason anyway. I think I was trying to say that we've a bucket load of men we aren't yet using, and that they're just sitting near by waiting for space to move :)

Well, I think that Dra-Pol is one of the toughest countries ever to invade, but I don't think that this army of yours will do very well at all on foriegn soil where the populace is resisting you. Plus, your millions of men will be like locusts, especially with your minimal logistical trail. If we can just burn and scorch the earth before you, well.....even Dra-Pol need SOME food.

I was just wondering if I could perhaps join the thread as a neutral country, along the lines of AC, supply Dra-pol with basic items like food, clothing, bullets, shells, etc.
It would be done covertly, and perhaps a discovery or attempted discovery role-played. I have only 1/4 of my entire military mobilized, and only 1/8 of it is actually fighting, so I have quite enough to spare.

please? :D

I was just wondering if I could perhaps join the thread as a neutral country, along the lines of AC, supply Dra-pol with basic items like food, clothing, bullets, shells, etc.
It would be done covertly, and perhaps a discovery or attempted discovery role-played. I have only 1/4 of my entire military mobilized, and only 1/8 of it is actually fighting, so I have quite enough to spare.

please? :D

That would be really awesome, I think. I love the politicing of netutral-but-leaning-to-one-side countries.

Thanks. One question. If you pursue a Russia-esqe scorched earth policy, wont that destroy just as much of South Korean interests as Drapoel? Not to mention Korea isnt that big of a country to retreat into.

oh.......damn.


well, yes. But I was thinking more along the lines of food reserves. We can ship in food for the south koreans, while dra-pol never had much to begin with.

aah, you're right. it's a bad idea.

Sorry to put a hole in the grand strategy.

Sorry to put a hole in the grand strategy. :)

OOC- Daylem, I just want to let you know that there is a serious blockade going on, and if you tried to move cargo in any kind of numbers, over land, air or sea, you'de probably run into some huge resistance, not that you couldn't handle it, but you wouldn't remain nuetral for very long.
IC-Hud, if you arenervous about bringing those ships and men into Hamhung, keeping in mind, there have been no Quinntonian-Dra-poel hostilities as of yet, you may feel free to move toward our next military island, about 160kms. to the South.

WWJD
Amen.

that would be the Isle of Daeron recently leased to the POJ. We have a Seabee Regiment there developing port facilities and an airstrip is already in place. the Marines and Ariborne troops already present are establishing defensive positions. there is an airwing present. There are probably close to 60K people there now and I'm thinking the island could hold a max of maybe 150-200K people.

edit: We would gladly allow allied forces in and or access to port facilities still under contruction.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leaving Netanaya on the last remaining transports in the POJ inventory:

1st Guards Armored Corps Field Marshall Erich von Manstein commanding

1 Guards Mechanized Division (4th Guards Infantry)
3 Armored Divisions (1st Guards, 2nd Guards, 7th Guards Armored)

escorts
1 Ticonderoga CG
3 Arleigh Burke DDGs
1 Spruance DD
9 OHPerry FFGs
2 LA Class SSNs


ooc note: the transports that delivered the 3rd, 9th, and 11th Corps have returned and are fitting out for a possible return journey.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The PJS CVN Joshua force joins the Battleship group(Raider and Padre) with the following forces from the Kilean transport escort group after the transports start unloading in Pusan. (the remaining escorts will of course accompany the transports back to Kilean)

CVN Joshua, CV Caleb(Kitty Hawk Class), Iowa (AEGIS) class Battleship Jericho City

6 Ticonderga CGs
6 Arleigh Burke DDGs
4 Spruance DDs
8 OH Perry FFGs
4 Virginia Class SSNs

note: U2s and Sr-71s begin landing at Daeron instead of returning to POJ. They will then base out of Daeron for shorter flights, including flights over the blockade areas :D

k.. thanks Quintonian Drapol

Xiaguo announces the pulling of troops from Dra-Pol and heads to the front lines in western China to fend off the invading Jing forces.

Enemy invasion is worst then self invasion.

Port of Netanya

edit: 24 Oscar II SSGNs port leave seperately.


Also leaving are six carrier groups

CVNs Hezekiah, Zebulun, and the 4 HBF purchased and refurbished carriers:
Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, and CV Campanella

19 Ticonderoga CGs
30 Arleigh Burke DDGs
5 Spruance Class DDs
Iowa BB (AEGIS) New Joshua City
24 OHPerry FFGs
12 Wasp Class LHAs
12 San Antonio LPDs
10 LA(i) class SSNs
2 Seawolf SSNs
6 Sacremento AOE Fleet Supply ships
2 AS-39 Sub Tenders
3 Osprey Minesweepers.


The Zebulun with 3 CGs, 4 DDGs, 1 AOE Supply Ship, 1 Minesweeper, 2 Seawolf SSNs changes course and heads north into the open sea.

The remainder heads directly for the Yellow Sea
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pusan

1st Guards Armored Corps arrives and Field Marshall Manstein takes over command of 2nd Guards Army from General Skornsky who resumes command of the Airborne Division.

After making the long sea journey, and after a week-long organization process, the final units of 3rd army have arrived at Pusan. They are now at the command of general Anknecht.

The full power of the Kilean army has arrived.

Units in 3rd Army:

6 panczer divisions
7 infandtry divisions
2 indep. panczer bde.

TOTAL: ~335,000 men ~3,500 tanks (mostly Lions, indep. panczer bde's use Etronian "Chasseur" light tank)
________________________________________________________

7th army is a less battle-hardened unit, being comprised of new divisions. It is currently offloading the last of it's equipment and getting organized in the Pusan area.

7th army is comprised of the divisions that were raised for the final offensive in Dibujante, but never used. 7th army is powerful unit, led by veteran officers and with young, fresh troops. They have been built from the ground-up with new equipment and were the first unit to be totally equipped with Lion MBT's.

Units in 7th Army

3 panczer divisions
4 cavalry divisions (mech cavalry)
5 infantry divisions
2 mountain bde.

Total: ~310,000 men, ~2,900 tanks (Lions)

Other units being sent:

4 heavy artillery rgt's (12 8-in guns each)
3 theatre missile regiments: 36 SCUD TLE's each. Kilean uses the scud beacuse it's simple and cheap to manufacture. We have huge stocks of them and use them to mass-launch at semi-strategic targets.

1 cruise missile regiment- 24 longsword ground-launched cruise missiles. Destined for Jeju-do.

ooc: Dra-pol. Strongly recommend either ignoring Daylam(or overseeing him) the rest of the rp. He has gone overboard with other nations and is coming off as a godmodder of sorts. His nation was rp destroyed:

Daylams destruction (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143167&start=80&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)

and the links to the reasons why are on the last page of that rp. I found this because I was going to take things to him based on his posts here. Huducia and I ran into each other on one of the threads and found this. My concerns started with his reaction to Quinntonian Dra-pol and have since grown.

Its your show here so its probably your call. Thought we should know.

(Response to things brought up in IC thread, including comparison to logistics applicable :) The British didn’t bring fifty thousand armoured vehicles and tens of thousands of off-roading trucks, or thousands of bridging units transported on same. The PA has thousands of amphibious tanks, SAMs, and APCs including command, control, ambulance, recovery, and supply vehicles. They’re all built in Dra-pol specifically to operate in Korea and nowhere else- they off-road and traverse rivers, get fair fuel efficiency, and don’t cost much, and they’ve not much else going for them.
More than that, we’ve not gone all that far south of the river (on the eastern side) and there’s only been so much need for major re-supply. In terms of ammunition, for example, the Drapoel are, as explained, traditionally conservative with their fire, excepted and able to carry a significant load to begin with, are at most only a few days since leaving their major supply lines north of the river, and have more magazines than things to shoot at in the first place.
As for the coastal bombardment, well, I know about that, and I’m assuming that it’s causing casualties, but there aren’t enough shells on a ship to saturate the whole width of our progress. We’re only using a few of the limited available roads, and doing most of our travel cross-country (thus moving slowly, which is why any of the opposing forces’ men are still alive). Its generally quite fluid, so intelligence is constantly being made obsolete and one volley of shells to the next the target has changed. They are doing damage, but in the grand scheme of things it only matters so much. While you’re shelling men at point X we’re pushing forward a new unit from reserve through point Y and diverting supplies from crippled units to the new ones. (The PA will disregard lost causes, none of that, ‘we don’t leave a man behind’ stuff, rather, ‘the needs of the many...’) Oh, plus any battleship coming within firing range better have a good fleet defence screen up around it –an expendable one. Those anti-shipping missiles have been piling up in storage since before some of these warships were even laid down, I’d wager (yes, some of the guidance systems may be past their use by date..). I hope all these 16” guns and such have a better than 130km range and only have to deal with air-launched weapons coming from that far.

But, I’ve an altogether better was to clear this up. We’ll stop mincing about, act like Drapoel, kill everyone in-between Seoul and Uisong, and press on to the next stage.

Oh, Kilean, would it be too much to have the Banat bring with them a compact nuclear device? I thought it might by an effective spur to their rabble-rousing end, but we’ll try to be more subtle if you’d prefer :) I’m a bit ignorant of the state of affairs, you see, and don’t know how much we’ll be able to accomplish with a few agents

OOC-I just wantto piont out that Quinntonia, Quinntonian Dra-pol, and if you wish, it's many allies both Coalition members and not have been spending a large amount of time and resources over the last several years setting up conditions within China, and well, any nation that would be considerd a "freindly" wo Dra-pol that would be used at a time such as this to spring a full-out unofficial attack on Dra-pol's resources.
This means, as needed and in a lot of cases, at the same time (especialy in China and African Commonwealth, to say a few) we would be sponsoring scare tactics style attacks of intimidation on any supporters of the Dra-poel regime. We would also have a more concrete mostly local and merc supported guerrilla operatives and operations going active but keeping their targets to shipping of any and all supplies with priority going to weapons and arms, as well as medical supplies and food. These, of course would all be unofficial, but depending on the importance could warrant the full intervention of The Men of Masada, and those zealots would not be against resorting to torture and assasination. (For the greater good and all that)
During this whole time, through economic lines, we would be imposing trade embargoes and simultaniously using the considerable economic influence we would have bought over the last few years to make most of the captains of industry beg to stay out of it and crying for Dra-pol's blood, in all except for a few most fanatical supporters. Also, we would be bribing everybody we could find, from lowly officials to heads of state and cabinets, anybody who we thought could help us and/or hinfder Dra-pol. And, yes, we have th resources to do it.
Then, through our famed Diplomatic Corps. we would exert every possible influence towards achieving our means, and all of this GOES DOUBLE FOR CHINA.
You see, the last war, we learned a valuable lesson, in blood, we could not effect a proper blockade while overland routes were being used. The greatest mistake we made was alowing China to let supplies through to Dra-pol, it helped to modernise Dra-pol, and made it impossible for us tp win. We were not willing to allow that tto happen again, and have spent consoderable resources planning for this.
Daylam, this is what you are runnign into in China, Dra-pol can testify to this, I have been at work in China since before you even had a nation. And if you persist in your insane need to get smacked down, I'll gladly do it, and probably not break a sweat.
WWJD
Amen.

Dra-pol, are there any RL parallels to your trucks?

Like the Praga or ZIL-131?

The LRRA uses the Ural-375 and ZIL-131.

Mabye next time you would take along some PTS-Ms. Those things are awesome. The LRRA uses a lot of them.

Hm, maybe we'll put an equivalent into production as part of Hotan's on going reshuffle of... everything.
Anyway, the trucks... I dunno, they're just the absolute cheapest off-roaders we could build, designed to be good at getting across unfavourable terrain without too much concern for the crew being comfortable in the process. A lot of the ones being sent down now, in light of the prolonging of hostilities, are even more bare. Some don't have glass in the windows, some don't even have doors fitted and only have one basic headlight light over the cab.
Thankfully the Drapoel are fairly skilled at making warm coats and footwear after being shut off in north korea for centuries.

The resupplied and reinforced 10th (now "Guards Armored") division sets out from Dibujante for the Dra-pol theatre.

The 12th, 15th, and 17th Armored plus the 14th Guards Mechanized Divisions are also setting out from Netanaya.

The SCVN Joseph will be Christened and Commissioned into the POJ Navy within the next couple of months (this weekend rl) Its shakedown cruise will not be in the Dra-pol theatre.

OOC: OK, I didnt understand the situation in China. From just the thread it seemed like you just suddenly had them there. Thanks for explaining the situation. Quinntonia, I dont know about the smack-down part. Besides the fact that 4 to 1 isnt too horrible of odds, you have no way of reaching my nation. :P
Sorry for critisizing your attacks though. Obviously the aid will be scaled down (Ie destroyed) by the attacks.

I have two nations involved, so it's more like 8 to 1. And, what, is your nation on the moon? I have one major nation in Asia, (Quinntonian Dra-pol) and another about where (Well, it's supposed to be Canada, but that is already taken for the purposes of this thread) The USA is.
Not to mention my most major ally in Eastern Europe, The Estenlands, as well as over 10 Coalition members that are monitering this thread, at least three of whom are twice MY size.
WWJD
Amen.

Actually Daylam has previously posted in another thread (not related to the Dra-pol war) that his nation is in Northern Iran on the Caspian Sea.

I rped moving a sub that way (The "Armeggeddon" a modified Typhoon II SSBN with the catepillar drive system) into the Caspian Sea and was sending the Zebulun battle group that direction when I noticed what was happening with him v. what seemed like the rest of NS.

That seems to have died down and Daylam has changed for the better as a rper so I haven't done anything since. That is a long flight to Chinese territory though..... :twisted:

edit: as a side note, isn't CFI in ground strike range of this guy? He sold off some of his stuff but I think he just didn't want to fool with transporting to Dra-pol. If CFI is rping as being part of Israel than its not that far is it? Maybe a t-gram is in order. :D

There is one thing that I'm a little confused about regarding Daylam... he's attacking Chinese territory? Because I'd imagine that this might make Beijing less than keen to allow him to conduct trade through China... I might be misunderstanding, and it's not really in Dra-pol's best interests for me to point this out, but there you go.

OOC: Dra-pol, what happened was this.
1. Daylami agents stirred up a massive Turkish rebellion in Xinjiang.
2. Then, we "graciously" occupied Xinjiang for safekeeping and destroyed the rebellion.
3. Xinjiang is officially going to be returned to Beijing after all Turkic rebels and supporters are uprooted.

We really have no intention of giving it back, but we are going to maintain the farce that we will give it back when it has been made safe.


Quinntonia, it is bad RP to use puppets in a war, to my understanding.

OOC: Daylam.. it is also generally considered bad form to claim to have moved 1.4 million men into a country over the period of a week.

If you did do this (its not possible BTW).. it'd be obvious that you're expanding your empire, so don't give me this "there's no way you can say I'm being imperialistic" silliness.

Also, a coalition of Chinese nations are opposing you.. some of whom have already declared you to be hostile. I don't think they'll let you fly through anymore.

OOC: _Taiwan has claimed OOCly that two months have passed since Xinjiang was occupied. When you consider that I am not moving them by sea or air, but marching them in by the land, is it not possible?

Yes, it would be pretty obvious that it is imperialism. But, for the purpose of the Dra-pol war, it is the PRC to be considered and not the Chinese nations. I think that after losing control of a province and having an ally move in and crush a rebellion in their name they would still allow trade to flow through to Dra-po;.

ooc: We just declared war on Daylam in the Xinjiang thread. As Daylam claims to be in Iran geographical I am not far. he now has bigger problems at home.

This declaration was prompted part by Drapol statement on nuclear weapons which I dont have but drapol would like to see used on me next. After I crush Daylam I will be seeking transport for my armies here as my navy is actually quite small. Army air corps is large and army itself is larger.

Uhm. That's no good at all, CfI, I think you're referencing OOC comments made by me... in which I implied no intent to furnish Daylam with nuclear arms.

(To paraphrase, 'it's a good job Dra-pol doesn't actually like (capitalist) Daylam, or we might help them acquire ICBMs et cetra, if they do not already possess such' so if that is your justification for declaring war... you'll have to retract it. I could be mistaken in my assumption, of course.)

I have quite a large nuclear arsenal all ready. :roll:

Actually dra-pol he has already made enough comments on his own about "millions of frenzied soldiers and thousands of ICBMs" to justify anything I want to do. Link so others can see godmodding (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=144433&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80)

I especially like the post about all the soldiers "jacked up on Hash" where he rping others nations military forces destruction on page 5 i believe.

I'm backing off not because of a so called nuclear threat but because a nation with 520 mil people doesnt realistically have the forces he claims to be rping and I worry about rping with someone using his techniques.

Also "ceding a province back to rightful rulers" which he has just done with western iran to prevent me from getting at him isnt good rp and would be ineffectual as I would march through the now lawless area to get him. I've offered rp help instead of war. it is not in my hands now.

No one said "jacked up on hash". The actual RL area of Daylam was always noted for frenzying the first line of soldiers with hashish before a battle. We emulate the practice on a smaller scale.
Why can't I have millions of soldiers? Or enough ICBMs to destroy you? I never assume that I am the best RP'er ever, but no tells me why.
I did not RP any other forces destuction. I challenge you to quote the exact words where I did.

I will admit to the Iran being poor RP. If you want I will retract it and you can march right on in to that territory.

As I said, I am always ready to accept advice on RP and I want to learn.
Thanks!

No one said "jacked up on hash". The actual RL area of Daylam was always noted for frenzying the first line of soldiers with hashish before a battle. We emulate the practice on a smaller scale.
Why can't I have millions of soldiers? Or enough ICBMs to destroy you? I never assume that I am the best RP'er ever, but no tells me why.
I did not RP any other forces destuction. I challenge you to quote the exact words where I did.

edit: as to the question about numbers. As I say before, It is not realistic for a nation to have more than 1% max of total population in military. .5% is more standard. Exceptions are here in dra-pol because of nature of nation previously established with low tech military and well rped in devleopment to modern over time from last august 03. In your case, you claim advanced tech and the high numbers. Both are not possible and you are feb 04 with 520 mil pop. get used to the idea of 2.6 mil in military or 5.2 max with reserves mobilized at best. this is again not new for you as you were told this last night on other thread.

There is a saying about being careful what it is that you wish for Daylam:



Daylam
Minister


Founded: 10 Feb 2004
Posts: 396

Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 12:43 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK then.



Hami

There they were. The Xiaguo troops advanced into a wall of Daylami men, all psyched up and frenzied by hashish.

The horsemen never had a chance. Machine guns ripped into them as T-90 shells blew open hole after hole in the advancing Xiaguo armies. AK-47's bullets added to the hailstorm attending the Xiaguo advance.

MILAN missiles began targeting Xiaguo armor.

Then came the final blow.

A-10 aircraft, protected by F-22s, rained a hail of 3,900 rounds per minute per plane onto tanks, personnel, trucks, anything. AGM missiles blew up any tanks that survived the MILANS.

As the A-10 aircraft wreaked destruction on teh Xiaguo force, Apache aircraft joined the fray. Hellfire missiles aided MILANS and AGM-65s in destroying Xiaguo armor.


It was carnage, and the Qaghan was there to oversee it.




I will admit to the Iran being poor RP. If you want I will retract it and you can march right on in to that territory.

As I said, I am always ready to accept advice on RP and I want to learn.
Thanks!

I would have anyway, but I may not for reasons stated in the invasion thread that I just quoted from.

How is that RP'ing the other forces destruction? Through that whole battle I never actually RP'ed any breakthroughs or anything. I simply had a battle plan, made the moves, and responded as Xiaguo did. It was him who posted his rout, which I think was justified.

Im looking at the post and still not seeing where I RP'ed the destruction of his forces..

I still think that CfI's justification for war is imagined... the primary issue seems to be OOC comments about nuclear weapons... an NS nation can't go to war over OOC comments alone, really. As a democracy, CfI would, I think, be struggling to convince its people on this mysterious nuclear threat, since the evidence is all in a different universe...

I dunno, maybe I'm crazy.

ive answered the question in the other thread. there is an ic reason ive posted and that is in response to a request from an ally. I explain devleopments and logic on the other thread.

That is a lame reason for going to war in RL. "Yep, the nation of Daylam, who has done northing to us, was trading with our ally's enemy. Therefore we will fight a long and bloody war against them."

Yeah I can just imagine the reaction should a president be feeding that to America. :roll:

ooc: Can you say Haliburton? I thought you could :lol:

It was just that you talked of seeing red when the nuclear issue was raised, which seemed to be the pivot on which you swung into action. OH well.

Let me defend CFI as this is my doing. I asked him to intervene if possible. His rl schedule is busy so I didn't expect him to pile into a war but he later told me by pm (as I saw on the thread) that nukes came up pretty quickly and it was actually Dra-pol who raised the issue. Then in coming here to confront you dra-pol, CFI saw Daylam's post about already having nukes. This was a sore point with the player before he ever got into NS. It was at that point that he rped a decision to wipe Daylam off the face of the NS earth.

If his nation's diplomats react as he does as a player(mostly that would be a "yes") than there is no reason for him to believe that diplomacy goes anywhere from the point of the nuclear commentary on both boards, ooc or not, as reactions ic in NS will frequently mirror the belief mechanism behind ooc.

I've rped with him before. I saw his comment about the Facsist Might/nda war and he understated his role by a lot. I didn't finish that rp but he did while taking a nuclear hit in the process. In case you haven't noticed, CFI is a very deliberate sort whom I've come to like and trust.

Daylam, the good news is, you can take him at his word.

The bad news is, when he says he's is coming for you in rp, you can take him at his word. Think about someone with a nation named Christians for Israel making an alliance with a nation named Hitler III to destroy a couple of nuke happy losers like Freemantia and FM. Think a player like that has an issue with nukes? Hitler III still exists. I saw him on the board today so ask him and see what he says.

Offer to dismantle your nuclear arsenal and you can probably negotiate a way to keep him out of the war. Besides, no decent rper will hang with you if you actually use them. A bunch might pile in against you just because you did use them. :idea:

Thanks for that long and yet enlightening post, POJ. I am not "nuke-happy" and I hope no one sees me that way. I am, however, not above taking out a city or nation with me if they advance into the heartland of my nation and are attempting to wipe me out. Daylam would NEVER use nukes offensively (!). They are purely as a deterrent to attackers, so you have no need to worry on that point.

Leaving Netanya for the Dra-pol theatre and/or the Yellow Sea

3rd and 4th Marine Divisions
1st, 2nd, and 3rd Seabee Regiments

26th Armored Corps:
25th and 26th Armored Divisions
19th Mechanized Division
21st Guards Mechanized Division

Given the present situation, can I assume that a cease-fire is in place? I think all units should hold their positions until negotiations can get underway.

I would assume so except for the folks in and around Inchon and Seoul. I don't think they would stop shooting just because of events around them.

My airborne incursion and naval movements were posted so that we would be covered if someone tried to overwhelm our forces on the ground there.

edit for range as I should have been converting from 200 nautical miles range which equals 371km. I think I probably posted too many naval losses in light of the presence of threatre area defense Standard-2 block-IV and IV/A missiles on my ships but I didn't want to come off as a godmod but I think some nuclear prevention is in order and it could extend up to 350km or more inland Something to reduce the damage if we regret the nukes (http://www.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/missiles/wep-stnd.html)

edit2: the presence of the standard-2 block IV/As on the Ticonderoga, Arleigh Burke, and AEGIS battleships at 371 km range could cover almost the whole peninsula, including Pusan and Taegu. I'm willing to rp it from this point with the losses as they are, but wanted to give an option