NationStates Jolt Archive

Raysia is developing a sort of submersible fighter. Whether or not this fighter will be able to fly in air is undetermined, but right now, they are trying to decide on an underwater propulsion system.

What do you guys think would be a good propulsion system? Fans/turbines? If so, what power source, Diesel? Hydrogen Fuel Cell?

If not fans, then what?

it would most likely have a supercavitation field of some sort, so keep that in mind as well.

How about an electrolysis drive, that would take in water, zap it into hydrogen and oxygen, and then combust the two elements? Or would the water have to be really pure....

You should tg New Empire.

EDIT:
One thing to remember:-

One basic problem with using supercavitation is structural strength for the fighter. Building an entire underwater aircraft, as it were, would put you in a 2050 tech bracket just to simply have the materials to build such a fighter.

To propel such a craft, I would recommend a standard turbojet of a kind, but make sure you have an independant oxygen supply. I think NE uses what are basically rockets but these would in reality seriously hamper range.

The basic problem with using supercavitation is structural strength for the fighter. Building an entire underwater aircraft, as it were, would put you in a 2050 tech bracket just to simply have the materials to build such a fighter.Really? I didn't consider that. I'm not talking about deep-water stuff, I'm talking low-pressure, maybe 50m below the surface.You should tg New Empire.Yeah, umm, he has underwater rocketsleds... lol... I want something with a little more control and longevity.

Even so....the pressures are large, but more specifically the whole of the pressure is located at the nose of the craft. You need a spectacularly strong nose to just to maintain structural intergrity.

How about an electrolysis drive, that would take in water, zap it into hydrogen and oxygen, and then combust the two elements? Or would the water have to be really pure....

OOC: That's possible, that it would have to be pure. An example of something similar is the use of air in jet engines, but that is used entirely different...I think, not totally sure. Anyway, there is probably some way around it (i.e. purification, filtering, or a periodic cleaning of the engine).

Drakonia has developped a small underwater submersible fighter-like craft. Although, I haven't worked out the specifics (other than what it looks like). The Barracuda-Class Mini-Attack Submarine[/url] has proven itself very effective (See here: http://invisionfree.com/forums/United_Emirates/index.php?showtopic=20 for more information and a picture).

NOTE: It is not a supercavitor. I do not RP such technology, as I am modern and while there are supercavitating torpedoes in the modern world. I feal it's better not to use that technology.

Really, talk to NE, he's the only one with submersiblew FIghter craft as far as i know, and hell no, they aren't rocket sleds :roll:

Really, talk to NE, he's the only one with submersiblew FIghter craft as far as i know, and hell no, they aren't rocket sleds :roll:

*Point to self and then gestures to his above post*

Really, talk to NE, he's the only one with submersiblew FIghter craft as far as i know, and hell no, they aren't rocket sleds :roll:

*Point to self and then gestures to his above post*
My bad, just a good reiteration though

My BLUE Fleet submersibles carry small minisubs. They can't fly, but they're fast, deep diving, and stuffed to the gills with revolutionary technology. :)

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114647&highlight=

GM as well has fast minisubs designed to behave like an aircraft underwater (I based mine off the Deep Sea Aviator technology). I think the idea has already been touched by many a nation.

Also, more problems with supercavitation: First off, it's loud. Anyone with a sonar system would be hearing you from dozens and dozens of miles away. Secondly, you have sensor problems. You can't use sonar; the sound of your own craft drowns out everything else. You'd need to find some way to navigate.

Supercavitation and Subfighters
(this is a little intro, I just put it up for the benefit of those who don't know what it is... That and I won't sound like a psychotic maniac.)

Since their invention many years ago, ocean going vessels have always been plagued by the turbulence they create. Water is around 1000 times thicker than air, and logically induces 1000 times more drag on any object traveling through it.

The results are... Slow speeds. Conventional surface ships and submarine speed have always been limited to no more than 40 or 50 mph.
Supercavitation removes all these limits on speed...

Supercavitation occurs when an object moving though water reaches speeds in excess of 100 knots (110mph). If the object has a correctly shaped ‘cavitator’ on its nose, a bubble of air starts to form around the object... This extends to cover the entire object, and hence the object is no longer moving through water, but through air, which creates but a fraction of the friction! Hence craft will be capable of racing at high speed on or below the surface of the ocean.

Traveling in a bubble kills off all traditional marine propulsion techniques. Propellers spinning in air won't be much good after all… The only engines that will work are the same ones which power our ships to the stars… Rocket engines. Supercavitational craft will be high speed, highly maneuverable rocket powered fighters.

A supercavitational craft would have to have a nose with a specially designed ‘cavitator’ which extends the bubble and makes it stable. The size and length of the bubble is dependant on speed, although it size can be increased by ‘ventilated supercavitation’. In ventilated supercavitation, air is pumped into the bubble to increase its size and ensure that it covers the entire supercavitating projectile. The Shkval for example, uses ventilated supercavitation by redirecting part of the exhaust gases from its rocket engines through outlets near the nose of the torpedo.

Supercavitating subfighters will be the ‘Tomcats of the deep’, patrolling the oceans at over a thousand miles per hour. They can turn off their engines, loiter indefinitely, silent, undetectable. Aircraft launched to intercept them will circle aimlessly overhead, unable to target them. They will attack who they want, when they want.

The Admiral Mickolai Angelus (CVSN-88) is the next step in the evolution of the aircraft carrier. Not only will it be capable of traveling underwater, the changing face of naval warfare will also change it into a ‘subcraft’ carrier. Unlike the slow moving behemoth carriers of today, the Angelus is fast and stealthy, capable of traveling at high speed underwater for thousands of miles, and then loitering undetected. Crossing all the advantages of an aircraft carrier and a submarine, and throwing in the speed of a jet fighter, the Angelus keeps the carrier relevant in the age of high speed underwater battle.Unlike a subfighter, the Angelus as a carrier cannot be limited by range. To be effective it needs the ability to travel great distances underwater, and to complete tours without the need to refuel.

Moving such a large object underwater would require vast amounts of rocket fuel. Luckily for the Angelus, the fuel is all around it! Seawater is made up of Hydrogen and Oxygen. Hydrogen is the most energetic rocket fuel there is. The Angelus’ nuclear reactor provides the energy to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen, allowing the Angelus to burn hydrogen in its rocket engines and giving the Angelus effectively unlimited range.

What is most amazing, is that the Angelus and subfighters, moving around in a bubble of air underwater, are almost never wet!

By its very revolutionary nature, supercavitation has presented an entire new range of problems to overcome in designing these new high speed underwater craft, especially with regards to guiding them. Guidance presents one of the largest obstacles for supercavitating craft. Early versions of the Shkvals are thought to be ‘straight shooters’ capable only of flying in a straight line. Supercavitational bullets are also by their very nature unguided. The ability to successfully steer a supercavitational craft presents perhaps the most difficult aspect of fully utilizing the technology. Any control surface within the bubble will have little or no affect on the direction of the craft.

Steering a supercavitational craft creates the dual problems of both having to steer the bubble, and manipulating the bubble when turning to keep the craft in the supercavity. The latter is essential since if the fuselage were to come into contact with the ocean outside the bubble, then the force of suddenly hitting a wall of water would instantly crush it.

The solution envisioned in New Empire to steer the bubble is accomplished using wing like ‘fins’ which extrude from the fuselage and extend beyond the supercavitational bubble. Whilst these would cause some increase in friction, they have the far greater benefit of allowing the supercavitational bubble to be steered. The fins would operate as control surfaces which could steer the bubble, and have the additional benefit of stabilizing the craft within the inherently unstable supercavitational bubble.

The ability to control and manipulate the supercavitational bubble is also essential in both increasing maneuverability and to stop the crushing of the craft as it turns. The bubble creating cavitator at the nose of the craft would have to be capable of quickly changing its position and angle to both ensure the bubble is always encasing the craft and to compensate for varying water pressure as the craft’s depth changes.

Steering is aided through the use of thrust vectoring on the exhausts of the rocket engines, similar to current day proven systems used on the F-22 or SU-37 fighter jets. It has been widely speculated that thrust vectoring would greatly increase the maneuverability of supercavitational craft. The thrust vectored nozzles direct thrust both horizontally and vertically to allow much tighter turns and angles of attack, and assist the fins in effectively steering the bubble.

Cavitation in conventional marine craft is so dreaded because it can cause extensive damage to propellers as the bubbles implode. Fortunately, the decrease in the supercavitational bubble, as long as it is controlled, would not have such an effect. A gradual slow down has the effect of progressively reducing the size of the supercavitational bubble, gradually exposing the fuselage to greater amounts of friction.

As such as long as there is not a sudden collapse of the bubble, no damage is expected in leaving the supercavitational bubble.

Yes, I use rocket fuel for supercavitation. And people in my tech level use SCRAMjets on their standard fighters. Using rocket engines is much more effective for us than using other engines for supercavitating. But for "Wet" travel at attack speeds, they are equipped with more conventional systems like the ones Freethinkers speaks of.

1000 mph? Isn't that a little unrealistic, even for supercav?

Also, in all of that post, you still haven't solved the problems of being incredibly easy to detect, or how you'll navigate without sonar.

With the wonders of 2070 tech, inertial guidance as well as EMS readings allow us to use magnetic signals to guide it. It's basically an extremely advanced compass-like system. Also, 1000 mph is unrealistic now, give it 70 years, and it can happen.

The whole point of subfighters is that yes, they're loud. But they're hit and run. Run in, slow down, shoot, run out. They aren't supercavitating the enitre time. They slow to normal speeds to fire.

That would seem to eat fuel incredibly quickly....:?

Underwater fighters and supercav high speed vessels that are larger then torpedo-sized items would be far in the future. It would definitely surpass your tech level Ray even if it was shallow and slow.

But realistically it would certainly not exceed anymore then a few hundred miles per hour and have to have a LARGE super-cav propulsion system to reach the speed. It would probably be the same speed as the ShiVkal, which is in the 200s I think.

But at that you'd be loud and noisy as hell. You'd be better off developing a small, high-speed mini-sub that could achieve like 50 knots or more.

Would water jets be an efficient method of propulsion?

Been done :P

OOC: As noted, the primary problem with supercavitation is range. Turbojets and Turbofans will not work with supercavitation, as they require an airflow to operate. Such a thing does not exist underwater. That leaves rocket propulsion, which is the least fuel efficient propulsion method you can get. Rockets, while they'll provide nice speed, will run through their entire fuel supply in a matter of minutes, even faster than a jet engine on full afterburner. The end result is that range will be little more than a few dozen miles.
Another major problem will come with the application of weaponry. What kind of weapons will this fighter deploy, and how will it carry/use them? The nature of the bubble formed for supercavitation will mean there can't be any outcroppings - they'd not only slow it down but would likely be sheered off if it got fast enough.

Unfortunately, there are no real alternatives to supercavitation for an underwater fighter, unless you just want a fast minisub that goes maybe 90 miles per hour. And it'll still have serious range limitations at that speed.

OK OK OK, no supercav

I want this to be 2006-2020 tech.

I still like the Electrolysis drive. Anyone see any problems with that if I build some sort of filter?

OK OK OK, no supercav

I want this to be 2006-2020 tech.

I still like the Electrolysis drive. Anyone see any problems with that if I build some sort of filter?

Try it for like a high-speed mini-sub? That would be in your tech range.

The Federation Navy is developing a "high-speed," one-man attack sub that uses solenoid MHD waterjets.

ACS: What is a water jet?

Layarteb: Would the electrolysis engine work? I'll worry about frame after drive.

ACS: What is a water jet?

It's the kind of propulsion jet skis and some light fast attack boats use. However, instead of using pumps and fans, I use a solenoid magnetohydrodynamic propulsor to suck the water in and squirt it out the back.

ACS: What is a water jet?

It's the kind of propulsion jet skis and some light fast attack boats use. However, instead of using pumps and fans, I use a solenoid magnetohydrodynamic propulsor to suck the water in and squirt it out the back.umm... yeah, is a magenetohydrodynamic propulsor even real? Or did you just make that up... cuz I'm pretty sure water is not magnetic :P

umm... yeah, is a magenetohydrodynamic propulsor even real? Or did you just make that up... cuz I'm pretty sure water is not magnetic :P

It's a real concept, we just haven't figured out quite how to make it work right yet. Seen or read The Hunt for Red October? Same idea.

While water itself is not magnetic, sea water contains electrolytic compounds and its flow can be directed in the presence of a magnetic field.

Layarteb: Would the electrolysis engine work? I'll worry about frame after drive.

I don't know exactly, that's better left up to the experts.

Layarteb: Would the electrolysis engine work? I'll worry about frame after drive.

I don't know exactly, that's better left up to the experts.ACS Seems expertish... opinion?

Here's an image of what I'm working on:

http://phalanx.i8.com/FACS/naval/X_subfighter2.GIF

Layarteb: Would the electrolysis engine work? I'll worry about frame after drive.

I don't know exactly, that's better left up to the experts.ACS Seems expertish... opinion?

If I was going to use an underwater rocket, I would use something like that to separate the hydrogen and oxygen. However, the power requirements are large enough that you would need a nuclear reactor to do it.

Maybe I should work on a high-speed missile-sized torpedo that can be launched by an RF-X8

What about if you had a mini-sub using fuel cell technology and this electrolysis drive. If it were small and streamlined wouldn't it be able to reach something like 50 - 100 knots. You could use an advanced sail like that proposed for the Virginia NSSN.

Layarteb: Would the electrolysis engine work? I'll worry about frame after drive.

I don't know exactly, that's better left up to the experts.ACS Seems expertish... opinion?

If I was going to use an underwater rocket, I would use something like that to separate the hydrogen and oxygen. However, the power requirements are large enough that you would need a nuclear reactor to do it.You can't make a safe reactor that small. How about hydrogen fuel cell? You could get a few hundred kilowatts off that

Layarteb: Would the electrolysis engine work? I'll worry about frame after drive.

I don't know exactly, that's better left up to the experts.ACS Seems expertish... opinion?

If I was going to use an underwater rocket, I would use something like that to separate the hydrogen and oxygen. However, the power requirements are large enough that you would need a nuclear reactor to do it.You can't make a safe reactor that small. How about hydrogen fuel cell? You could get a few hundred kilowatts off that

I would stay away from supercav and rockets because they generate a LOT of noise and you'll be able to track them very far away. If you employ a wide enough prop you can achieve higher speeds with less RPMs and use a propulsor like the Seawolf and then probably, since of its size, move at forty knots without much, if any noise.

Hmm...

Alright...

How about just a new plane-dropped torpedo, propelled by a high-speed Hydrogen Fuel-Cell electric turbine?

I'm starting to think a fighter would be impossible and impractical

Hmm...

Alright...

How about just a new plane-dropped torpedo, propelled by a high-speed Hydrogen Fuel-Cell electric turbine?

I'm starting to think a fighter would be impossible and impractical

Would that be able to fit into a torp? For air dropped and a torp supercav is the way to go. Good thing is give it dual guidance: sonar & IR. It would be able to detect the thermal radiation given off by a reactor in a nuke. Maybe have it command guided but how though? Wouldn't have a wire like the ADCAP, you'd have to do something. I don't know if radio would work underwater.

Hmm...

Alright...

How about just a new plane-dropped torpedo, propelled by a high-speed Hydrogen Fuel-Cell electric turbine?

I'm starting to think a fighter would be impossible and impractical

It's entirely possible. Do some research on Deep Flight... high speed submarines that are "flown" like aircraft. I'm essentially going for much the same thing... I'm just taking advantage of my nation's post-modern tech status. :)

OK, yeah, duh, I knew that.

OK, so how about an air-dropped high-yield solid-rocket supercav torpedo?

OK, so how about an air-dropped high-yield solid-rocket supercav torpedo?

Very doable. Have it drop in like a shroud and once it hits the water it can come out of a shroud and deploy. It would protect it against the impact of hitting the water, thereby allowing medium altitude drops even.

OK, so how about an air-dropped high-yield solid-rocket supercav torpedo?

Very doable. Have it drop in like a shroud and once it hits the water it can come out of a shroud and deploy. It would protect it against the impact of hitting the water, thereby allowing medium altitude drops even.Doesn't even have to be that complicated. I have WiG attackers that can skim across the water and deploy it maybe 5-10 meters above water

Well AFAIK, i was one of the first to have real, honest to god subfighters in my navy, took them to use about 8 months ago. You can check what i use from here:
http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/Index.htm

Go to Military ----> Sea Systems

Ofcourse, these things are a wee bit advanced with supercav used in the fighters also and other rather advanced submersible stuff but hey, to give an idea.

OK, so how about an air-dropped high-yield solid-rocket supercav torpedo?

Very doable. Have it drop in like a shroud and once it hits the water it can come out of a shroud and deploy. It would protect it against the impact of hitting the water, thereby allowing medium altitude drops even.Doesn't even have to be that complicated. I have WiG attackers that can skim across the water and deploy it maybe 5-10 meters above water

That works too. Now guidance! What do you plan to use? Infra-red type thermal stuff to hone in on reactor heat (but then again will it track Diesel-Electrics with IR) or sonar or what? At high speed the sonar isn't all that great so. The Shivkal uses command AP but then again its deployed from a submarine.

OK, so how about an air-dropped high-yield solid-rocket supercav torpedo?

Very doable. Have it drop in like a shroud and once it hits the water it can come out of a shroud and deploy. It would protect it against the impact of hitting the water, thereby allowing medium altitude drops even.Doesn't even have to be that complicated. I have WiG attackers that can skim across the water and deploy it maybe 5-10 meters above water

That works too. Now guidance! What do you plan to use? Infra-red type thermal stuff to hone in on reactor heat (but then again will it track Diesel-Electrics with IR) or sonar or what? At high speed the sonar isn't all that great so. The Shivkal uses command AP but then again its deployed from a submarine.What about manual control? That way there'd be no error from decoys

What about manual control? That way there'd be no error from decoys

The torp guides itself like an autopilot deal? That requires precise target data pre-programmed before launch and such. Would it be able to adjust for target aspect changes easily and quickly?

Well AFAIK, i was one of the first to have real, honest to god subfighters in my navy, took them to use about 8 months ago. You can check what i use from here:
http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/Index.htm

Go to Military ----> Sea Systems

Ofcourse, these things are a wee bit advanced with supercav used in the fighters also and other rather advanced submersible stuff but hey, to give an idea.Yeah, umm, your subfighters have to carry oxygen on board, right? Kinda a problem

What about manual control? That way there'd be no error from decoys

The torp guides itself like an autopilot deal? That requires precise target data pre-programmed before launch and such. Would it be able to adjust for target aspect changes easily and quickly?Manual control... it would be controlled by a camera and joystick.

Or it could use LIDAR, that'd work underwater.

Well AFAIK, i was one of the first to have real, honest to god subfighters in my navy, took them to use about 8 months ago. You can check what i use from here:
http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/Index.htm

Go to Military ----> Sea Systems

Ofcourse, these things are a wee bit advanced with supercav used in the fighters also and other rather advanced submersible stuff but hey, to give an idea.Yeah, umm, your subfighters have to carry oxygen on board, right? Kinda a problem

Naturally, you cant really fit a nuclear level powerplant to a sub-fighter and keep it as a sub-fighter. So yep, they do carry oxygen and with that, their operational range and time is greatly limited, but considering that they arent meant to operate out of base for too long, not that big of an issue.

Or you could just do what RelicArms did months ago with the Pirahna Light Attack Sub(very bottom of page) (http://www.freewebs.com/bluebomber/storefrontnaval.htm). Hydrogen fuel cell provides electric, tesla turbine provides efficient and bladeless thrust, emergency semi-supercav for when it needs to get the hell away from stuff. It is very maneuverable with its large control surfaces, and it has several weapon systems.

I'm starting to think the only reason Relic has yet to be attacked is because we seem to be the only ones that planned our equipment to meet our future needs. All the stuff on our site is months old 8) .

Also, Raysia, in case you didn't see it, the radar system I developed can be found here (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137553&highlight=) enjoy!

Well AFAIK, i was one of the first to have real, honest to god subfighters in my navy, took them to use about 8 months ago. You can check what i use from here:
http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/Index.htm

Go to Military ----> Sea Systems

Ofcourse, these things are a wee bit advanced with supercav used in the fighters also and other rather advanced submersible stuff but hey, to give an idea.Yeah, umm, your subfighters have to carry oxygen on board, right? Kinda a problem

Naturally, you cant really fit a nuclear level powerplant to a sub-fighter and keep it as a sub-fighter. So yep, they do carry oxygen and with that, their operational range and time is greatly limited, but considering that they arent meant to operate out of base for too long, not that big of an issue.those things look like they'd eat through their oxygen in like 5 minutes.

What about manual control? That way there'd be no error from decoys

The torp guides itself like an autopilot deal? That requires precise target data pre-programmed before launch and such. Would it be able to adjust for target aspect changes easily and quickly?Manual control... it would be controlled by a camera and joystick.

Or it could use LIDAR, that'd work underwater.

Okay so command guidance. Just one curiosity. How will you communicate to the weapon? If it's something like 800 feet underwater it's very hard to communicate with. It's not like the ADCAP that runs with a wire trailing, you can't trail a wire from an aircraft to a weapon that fast. Would radio penetrate the waves and the water well or would sea conditions adversly affect it?

Or you could just do what RelicArms did months ago with the Pirahna Light Attack Sub(very bottom of page) (http://www.freewebs.com/bluebomber/storefrontnaval.htm). Hydrogen fuel cell provides electric, tesla turbine provides efficient and bladeless thrust, emergency semi-supercav for when it needs to get the hell away from stuff. It is very maneuverable with its large control surfaces, and it has several weapon systems.

I'm starting to think the only reason Relic has yet to be attacked is because we seem to be the only ones that planned our equipment to meet our future needs. All the stuff on our site is months old 8) .not bad


We have testla technology in Raysia, so we might be able to use that... but that sounds like It'd need a lot of power.

What about manual control? That way there'd be no error from decoys

The torp guides itself like an autopilot deal? That requires precise target data pre-programmed before launch and such. Would it be able to adjust for target aspect changes easily and quickly?Manual control... it would be controlled by a camera and joystick.

Or it could use LIDAR, that'd work underwater.

Okay so command guidance. Just one curiosity. How will you communicate to the weapon? If it's something like 800 feet underwater it's very hard to communicate with. It's not like the ADCAP that runs with a wire trailing, you can't trail a wire from an aircraft to a weapon that fast. Would radio penetrate the waves and the water well or would sea conditions adversly affect it?I assumed radio worked underwater...

I think it only will work underwater if you are underwater or else you'll get problems with transmission. Submarines usually can't be too deep to recieve radio transmissions. I think the towed VLF and ULF antenna only work around 250 feet.

You obviously haven't read up on our recently perfected tesla turbines, they have nothing to do with his experiments in electricity.

linkles (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=136507&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

Also on the topic of seeing underwater, our Millimeter Band Radar Imaging would work perfectly except its range is limited to ~3 km.

Well AFAIK, i was one of the first to have real, honest to god subfighters in my navy, took them to use about 8 months ago. You can check what i use from here:
http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/Index.htm

Go to Military ----> Sea Systems

Ofcourse, these things are a wee bit advanced with supercav used in the fighters also and other rather advanced submersible stuff but hey, to give an idea.Yeah, umm, your subfighters have to carry oxygen on board, right? Kinda a problem

Naturally, you cant really fit a nuclear level powerplant to a sub-fighter and keep it as a sub-fighter. So yep, they do carry oxygen and with that, their operational range and time is greatly limited, but considering that they arent meant to operate out of base for too long, not that big of an issue.those things look like they'd eat through their oxygen in like 5 minutes.

Well yeah, when using supercav both hydrogen and oxygen levels drop like a waterfall, the reason why they dont use supercav unless the range to destination is really long. My sea systems section is really in need of overhaul tough, should propably re-figure the numbers and stuff to there.
In any case, the oxygen in stored in its liquid state anywhere where there is suitable space for it. In the wings (along with hydrogen storages), in the fuselage and so on.

Sileetris:

OOC: I have had testla tech is Raysia for a while, I just didn't know all the applications IRL. Would you be mad at me if I started putting testla pump upgrades on my fighters? :)

I'm out for the night. Got class tomorrow at 12 and work tomorrow night so I'm cashing in for the night. Good luck with the weapon and let me know what it turns out like.

Raysia: Considering A) it has nothing to do with his work in electrical fields, which is what you've drawn on so far. B) it requires materials and technology you dont have yet to get working. C) it would start a fad of other people doing it for the hell of it, without giving me proper credit for thinking up a solution to its design flaws and creating a use for it, I'd have to say the answer is NO. I've had way too many people bugging me for it, and I was the only peron in the entire forum with the intelligence to figure it out, so I'm keeping it.

You can however take our original drive idea for the Pirahna and use it for a similar subfighter; a cone shaped tube with a corkscrew running down the center. The corkscrew can turn at very low speeds, but the effect of water being pushed through a narrower and narrower opening results in a fast push. Oddly enough I thought of this concept also, and it doesn't seem to have been patented IRL. No one dared to steal this :-P

Raysia: Considering A) it has nothing to do with his work in electrical fields, which is what you've drawn on so far. B) it requires materials and technology you dont have yet to get working. C) it would start a fad of other people doing it for the hell of it, without giving me proper credit for thinking up a solution to its design flaws and creating a use for it, I'd have to say the answer is NO. I've had way too many people bugging me for it, and I was the only peron in the entire forum with the intelligence to figure it out, so I'm keeping it.

You can however take our original drive idea for the Pirahna and use it for a similar subfighter; a cone shaped tube with a corkscrew running down the center. The corkscrew can turn at very low speeds, but the effect of water being pushed through a narrower and narrower opening results in a fast push. Oddly enough I thought of this concept also, and it doesn't seem to have been patented IRL. No one dared to steal this :-POh... ok... I didn't get half the stuff you said, But I understood 'no' :P

Raysia: Considering A) it has nothing to do with his work in electrical fields, which is what you've drawn on so far. B) it requires materials and technology you dont have yet to get working. C) it would start a fad of other people doing it for the hell of it, without giving me proper credit for thinking up a solution to its design flaws and creating a use for it, I'd have to say the answer is NO. I've had way too many people bugging me for it, and I was the only peron in the entire forum with the intelligence to figure it out, so I'm keeping it.

You can however take our original drive idea for the Pirahna and use it for a similar subfighter; a cone shaped tube with a corkscrew running down the center. The corkscrew can turn at very low speeds, but the effect of water being pushed through a narrower and narrower opening results in a fast push. Oddly enough I thought of this concept also, and it doesn't seem to have been patented IRL. No one dared to steal this :-P

Did it hurt to reach around so far to pat yourself on the back? A simple, "No, it's proprietary knowledge," would have sufficed. Some of us might actually have better things to do with our time than read about Tesla and his inventions.

Easy, ACS...he developed it, he can pat himself on the back as much as he damn well chooses...unfortunately. :?

Easy, ACS...he developed it, he can pat himself on the back as much as he damn well chooses...unfortunately. :?

Actually, if you look at the thread he made... he really didn't develop it. He took Tesla's idea and copied it to NS, fused it with frictionless bearings, and then went around talking like he was the smartest person in the game.

I'm not saying it was a bad idea, that couldn't be further from the truth. It was a good idea to incorporate. It's just not the end-all-be-all he makes it out to be... nor is the self-sanctimony necessary.