NationStates Jolt Archive

"I Nuke YOU! Your city is now wiped out!"
"Oh yea? Well I nuke all your ships~ you have no navy!"
"I nuke your ARMY! you have no forces!"
"Oh yea?"
"YEA!"

...Ladies and gentlemen, This, is what our Wars have been reduced to... I have been watching RP Wars here in Int Inc for a while, And raelt, if ever, do I see actual War Stradgy take place... No... Far to often is the case that we have opposing sides simply Nuking one another... How orginal...

Where is the creative thought? The planing of Armies? Navies? The working with allies to flank, exploit, and over power another Army? Alas, it seems the War of choice is simply Whos Econy is biggest and who has the most Nukes...

Reticule me, or agree with me, I simply am stating my observations... My own nation has banned nukes for years, WE have none, I find them distastful, crude, and an easy out... If I shall draw swords upon another nation, it will be with the calculated moves of my Armed Forces.

Lord High CEO Of Crossroads Inc.

i agree with u

Nukes are so passe...We prefer the use of variable controled plasma warheads

It's "ridicule"

and you have a very original idea........but then....who the hell would wanna give up their nukes?

I have nukes but only use them if really really needed. Allot of nations just use em and dont think of the real world were radiation CAN DRIFT around the world and also HARM THIER NATION TO duh!!!!!

Though I have yet to be engaged in any armed conflict, I agree with you whole heartedly. I also believe that even we might need a forum for serious nation builders, who want an involved semi-realistic approach (i.e no stupid names like Hells @#!hole or Banana Peel Island) with consequences for every action. The world community would react to nuclear strikes.

Ill Apoligize for the poor spelling :wink: I was simply in a heated mood... Hounstly it is easy to do away with Nukes, No one today in the Real world uses Nukes, it is purely for posturing purposes, to feed a nations Ego... I have no Nukes, and no problem with it... (I have plently else to defend with)

A very good point. Nuclear weapons have been out of commision in Muktar ever since the revolution, and we have been using the money for nuclear power plants and reprocessing plants. Safer, cleaner, more effecient, and no economic crashes from OPEC.

As for how we will handle other people who choose to nuke us, they generally won't due to our nation's combat style if we are invaded. We only ever invade as a counterattack, which generally comes after the invader's main attack is routed. So a few RP weeks tops.

Since most people's idea of a war RP is for twenty people to post the size of their army, get into an argument over said armies, flame each other, and then give up, nukes can do little to reduce the quality of such roleplay anyway.

Anyway, the nuclear program is fine, but when it comes to actual RPing they should only be used as a threat or only be used in extreme circumstances. I, for one, like more elaborate RPs.


Which leads me to another point, when I start my RP (when I get the time) I am going to put a post limit, say twice per day, that prevents the thread from getting flooded and impossible to follow.


EDIT: In the time that it took to post these, there were eight posts

Alas, but without threatening to use nukes, the RL nations would be warring with each other

See the Cold War, they both had nukes. If they didn't, they might've caused a WW3!

But in a NS run by 24 yr olds living with their mothers having names like "Big ol Piece of ***", yeah...I see what you mean

But I'm in no way giving up my nukes for someone's immaturity

I've seen people use nukes in the latest conflicts like they are so many rounds of rifle ammunition. Use them thoughtfully folks. These weapons are not meant as a general warfare weapon.

Since most people's idea of a war RP is for twenty people to post the size of their army, get into an argument over said armies, flame each other, and then give up, nukes can do little to reduce the quality of such roleplay anyway. Dear Me! You just sumed up my Entier point wonderfuly! That is exactly how I see this! These 'Wars' are really nothing ore then people yelling at each other.

lol...right.
the carefull planning of armys ended with WW1 when air superiority became essental, some navys are still carefully planned,it is foolish to launch a WMD at a ship,it could easily miss if the ship speeds up,or slows down before the missile hits,and then the missle splashs in the water.
and i doubt anyone will give away any nuclear weapons. and you cant tell me nukes have been used in evrey RP, if nukes were used that extensievly there would be major problems, most RP's have starteds ignoring nukes.

I think its a good idea, but about as likely to happen as the NS forums working for more than ten minutes.

Nukes make for bad RP, true. But nations without them are at the mercy of nations with them. :(

I would agree to establishing a serious roleplaying community(similar to the one described earlier in the discussion). Nuclear warheads are the instigator for a "war of words", if you will, "I launched 300 nukes at you", "Well my Star Wars Missle Defense System (which is possible thnks to Ronald Reagan) shot them all down", "Well then I shot your missle defense system down", "Oh yeah, well prove it". Thats all it is, a war of words. If one were to develop a method of deploying actual tactics, using land, naval, and air strategies, without stupid " No, my tanks killed your SEALs" players, and a set of guide lines and rules, that would actually be something worth playing

Due to your non-noob attitude, Germania, I'm going to assume you are someone's secondary nation. Are you not? I would employ tactics, if I knew any, however, it is difficult to use tactics that either guarantee you'll hit the target, or the target will miss you, without it being called god-modding.

I am wondering, If this sort of general statment comes up often, with the way the forum can send a thread into oblivion, other Nations may post similar reactions Often and I'd never catch it,

Ive never actually used a nuke in warfare. I use them all the time in my research facility though.

This issue keeps cropping up occasionally and I feel that now I've become more experienced I will add my opinion on the us of nuclear weapons and the problems they produce.


Firstly, nuclear weapons or most WMD exist in real life, they are an issue that all real life nations deal with, albeit not as much as they used to have to. The point is that if you want to RP a nation based on real life then WMD may come into it at one point.

Now the problem here is that many nations get the idea that Nation States is one big huge competion that they can eventually win, talking OOC to another nations before hand to sort out all the plot twists and technology problems may be ideal, but most nations wouldn't even think of concidering this.

NS has alot of nations feel that they need large numbers of WMD to be threatening, as well as to use incase they are in deep trouble. Some nations, but not many, are willing to use them first thing, seeing them as a valid tactic.

So what ends up happening is that you get half the nations playing in a almost unco-operative manner where they want to "glass" the other nation so that they may "win" and the few that are willing to use nuclear weapons are prepared to completely mess up someones nation to "win".

That, essentially is the problem with some NS roleplaying, to many it isn't about the story, it's about the winning.


However, the other half of NS is interested mostly in the entertainment they get out of the story... which is what roleplaying is about, a interactive story. Often they are a bit of both (playing for competition and the story) which is okay, providing they don't forget the story.

So on the plus side these nations may use nuclear weapons, or WMD, in a tactical fashion to add realism to the story of how they would solve this problem... they generally won't use hundreds of nuclear weapons at once because that would damage the story and it would probably result in a ignorefest.

To this end Iuthia has the NAFDA system, capable of taking down anything upwards from 91% of the ICBM's fired at Iuthia. Mostly I will ignore the system if attacked with damn good RP [Click for Example of Such an RP] (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132639&highlight=) in which case I may or may not be hit depending on how I feel about the attack, how likely it would be and what fun I would get out of it. Had I not been interested in Doujin's idea I would have said "It's more likely then not that the missile would be taken down, so I'm RPing it shot down." and that would be that.

However, if some random nations nukes me with 100+ high yield nuclear weapons because I insulted his donkey then the NAFDA system's defences jump up to anything from the 91% (I don't mind RPing the damage) to 100% (I'm not ignoring the attack, but I'm using my resources to negate it). Seeing as Iuthia doesn't have nuclear weapons it would be down to any conventional action should I feel that I have to resort to that.

The point is that WMD can produce good roleplay if done carefully and with an open mind. However, if it's used to glass another nation then I would probably just not bother with it. If I get ignored then the chances are I didn't want to RP with that nations anyways.

That my two pence.... if you want to ignore WMD then thats your choice, but I think it's missing out on parts of reality that can be good story plots; anything from a "Sum of All Fears" scenario to like "Broken Arrow" each with their rich story line and ideas.

i nuke your country to death! yay! i own you now!

i nuke your country to death! yay! i own you now!



Noooooooooo :cry:

i was joking...im very very bored

i was joking...im very very bored


Me too.

lol...right.
the carefull planning of armys ended with WW1 when air superiority became essental, some navys are still carefully planned,it is foolish to launch a WMD at a ship,it could easily miss if the ship speeds up,or slows down before the missile hits,and then the missle splashs in the water.
and i doubt anyone will give away any nuclear weapons. and you cant tell me nukes have been used in evrey RP, if nukes were used that extensievly there would be major problems, most RP's have starteds ignoring nukes.

No they didn't. Careful planning is still essential, what gave you that idea? And the part about a nuke missing a ship is just retarded. Have you never heard of an airburst?! A nuke doesn't have to have a direct hit upon the target to kill it, proximity detonations will destroy most things pretty fine.

Ill assume you arent refering to spacetech, since I for one use nukes (or more powerful warheads, such as antimatter) routinly as pretty much the only thing which can defeat uber-armoured polythermal thingy armour used by people who dont want their ships to explode at invonvienent times.

Of course, I wouldnt dream of using a 5gt warhead on Earth. It would be bad form and proboably cause some environmental problems, such as throwing the planet off its axis 8)

Of course, I wouldnt dream of using a 5gt warhead on Earth. It would be bad form and proboably cause some environmental problems, such as throwing the planet off its axis 8)

Of course, you would be ignored by most nations on earth too, but you can't let that get in the way either?

I would ignore their ignores :shock:

I would ignore their ignores.

Hehe... welldone, I think I'll keep that gem of a quote for another time. I'm assuming your not being serious, becausing ignoring an ignore would mean you don't beleive they exist in responce to them not beleiving you exist... the over all effect is that their ignore works better as they wouldn't even have to worry about you complaining about their ignore, seeing as you are ignoring them.

"I Nuke YOU! Your city is now wiped out!"
"Oh yea? Well I nuke all your ships~ you have no navy!"
"I nuke your ARMY! you have no forces!"
"Oh yea?"
"YEA!"

...Ladies and gentlemen, This, is what our Wars have been reduced to... I have been watching RP Wars here in Int Inc for a while, And raelt, if ever, do I see actual War Stradgy take place... No... Far to often is the case that we have opposing sides simply Nuking one another... How orginal...

Where is the creative thought? The planing of Armies? Navies? The working with allies to flank, exploit, and over power another Army? Alas, it seems the War of choice is simply Whos Econy is biggest and who has the most Nukes...

Reticule me, or agree with me, I simply am stating my observations... My own nation has banned nukes for years, WE have none, I find them distastful, crude, and an easy out... If I shall draw swords upon another nation, it will be with the calculated moves of my Armed Forces.

Lord High CEO Of Crossroads Inc.

Aside from a fine opinion one tends to forget the paramount consideration. One's RP is only as good as another's opinion. It's a game, if they are having fun throwing nuclear spot lights at each other, why should it bother you? Ship them off to some altered reality where the world never spins, space is amazing and nuclear weapons are made by the local cheese company as an off shore revenue fund.

IF you dont like it, dont play with them. Also it's not the weapons that are bad it's the people that give them a bad name. Dont hate the idea, hate the people that ruin it. To go OMG YEW R TEH BANNED FOR NEWKS is a silly thing it's Free Form Roleplay here, people can throw gerbils that explode with nuclear detonations if they wanted too. It's up to others to choose to RP with them.

Yes, I was entirley serious. I ignore peoples ignores on a daily basis.

*trips on a rock*
IGNORED!
*rock vanishes*
hehehe.

It should be noted that nuke is not a bad thing in NS: and in fact, sometimes it provides perfect opportunity for a good RP. But for many peopl;e who objects nukes, it is the current implementation and the method of using them, in which someone may give up fighting using conventional forces, get his what seems to be a million of missiles with 18 150-megaton supernuke warheads, and just nuke, nuke, and nuke.

But as Iraqstan said -- if you don't like nukes and some people's tendancy to nuke, nuke, nuke, don't RP or even ignore them. Certainly, why even RP and interact with them when they just do the "nuke thing" and when you hate using nuclear weapons in roleplays? After all, this is a game, and like people said, you can't be forced to RP with someone you don't like under very undesirable circumstances (although that doesn't mean that you can first invade some nation, inflict damage, and say that you ignore them while letting them keep the damage).

"I Nuke YOU! Your city is now wiped out!"
"Oh yea? Well I nuke all your ships~ you have no navy!"
"I nuke your ARMY! you have no forces!"
"Oh yea?"
"YEA!"

...Ladies and gentlemen, This, is what our Wars have been reduced to... I have been watching RP Wars here in Int Inc for a while, And raelt, if ever, do I see actual War Stradgy take place... No... Far to often is the case that we have opposing sides simply Nuking one another... How orginal...

Where is the creative thought? The planing of Armies? Navies? The working with allies to flank, exploit, and over power another Army? Alas, it seems the War of choice is simply Whos Econy is biggest and who has the most Nukes...

Reticule me, or agree with me, I simply am stating my observations... My own nation has banned nukes for years, WE have none, I find them distastful, crude, and an easy out... If I shall draw swords upon another nation, it will be with the calculated moves of my Armed Forces.

Lord High CEO Of Crossroads Inc.

Well i suppose but in a legitamate war it is "i nuked the town of Chedder" and the other person says " THe town was destroyed 2.1 million people died in the radioactive carnage." That is why some should be ignored but some should be payed attention to.

Any nuclear material my country has is purely for technical research into power generation :wink:

Any nuclear material my country has is purely for technical research into power generation :wink:

Yeah right, like bio-labs are only for making vaccines and studying viruses.

Any nuclear material my country has is purely for technical research into power generation :wink:

Yeah right, like bio-labs are only for making vaccines and studying viruses.

We are open to any and all inspections. We follow international law unlike some rouge nations.

I see this as a good time to advertise INOC, the International Nuclear Observation Committee.

The perpose of this organisation is to list all nuclear blasts* detected and to investigate such blasts with permission of the nation hit. Detection can be done from Iuthia using verious systems (Modern Tech) and the list is a simple list available to all nations, pretty much just facts, no opinion.

Click for Link (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119992&start=0)



* All nuclear blasts which are being registered as legitimate and acknowledged by the victim.

I completely agree, and I do ignore nukes.

I completely agree, and I do ignore nukes.
Well, you ignore almost everything...

*Escalates nuclear tests on tropical islands and shakes a proverbial fist at the thread while menacingly fingering the Big Red Button*

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=136856


See this link if you would like to join this Treaty.




For Immediate Release
From Apple Zer0
Office of the Press Secretary
April 3 2004

Text of Strategic Offensive Reductions Treaty
The Rogue Nation of Apple Zer0 and the Jarridia Federation, hereinafter referred to as the Parties,
Embarking upon the path of new relations for a new century and committed to the goal of strengthening their relationship

through cooperation and friendship,

Believing that new global challenges and threats require the building of a qualitatively new foundation for strategic

relations between the Parties,

Desiring to establish a genuine partnership based on the principles of mutual security, cooperation, trust, openness, and

predictability,

Committed to implementing significant reductions in strategic offensive arms,

Proceeding from the Joint Statements by the President of the Rogue Nation of Apple Zer0 and the President of the Jarridia

Federation on Strategic Issues of April 2nd, 2004 in Daylam and on a New Relationship between Apple Zer0 and Jarridia of

April 2nd, 2004 in Apple Zer0,

Mindful of their obligations under the Treaty Between the Rouge Nation of Apple Zer0 and the Jarridia Federation on the

Reduction and Limitation of Strategic Offensive Arms of April 2nd, 2004, hereinafter referred to as the START Treaty,

Mindful of their obligations under Article VI of the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons of April 3rd, 2004,



Convinced that this Treaty will help to establish more favorable conditions for actively promoting security and cooperation,

and enhancing international stability,

Have agreed as follows:

Article I

Each Party shall reduce and limit strategic nuclear warheads, as stated by the President Apple Zer0 on April 3rd, 2004 and as

stated by the President of the Jarridia Federation on April 3rd, 2004 and April 3rd, 2004 respectively, so that by April

30th, 2004 the aggregate number of such warheads does not exceed 1700-2200 for each Party. Each Party shall determine for

itself the composition and structure of its strategic offensive arms, based on the established aggregate limit for the number

of such warheads.

Article II

The Parties agree that the START Treaty remains in force in accordance with its terms.

Article III

For purposes of implementing this Treaty, the Parties shall hold meetings at least twice a year of a Bilateral Implementation

Commission.

Article IV

1. This Treaty shall be subject to ratification in accordance with the constitutional procedures of each Party. This Treaty

shall enter into force on the date of the exchange of instruments of ratification.

2. This Treaty shall remain in force until April 3rd, 2040 and may be extended by agreement of the Parties or superseded

earlier by a subsequent agreement.

3. Each Party, in exercising its national sovereignty, may withdraw from this Treaty upon three months written notice to the

other Party but may be subjuct to war.

Article V

This Treaty shall be registered pursuant to Article 102 of the Charter of the AZ & JF.

Done at Shelbin on April 3rd, 2004, in two copies, each in the Apple Zer0 and Jarridia languages, both texts being equally

authentic.

FOR THE ROUGE NATION OF APPLE ZER0:

FOR THE JARRIDIA FEDERATION:

# # #

Roycelandia maintains an enormous Nuclear Arsenal, for several reasons.

1. It gives us Authoritah (ie, the other nations I RP with know what a nuke will do, as do I... thus ensuring a deterrent effect).

2. They cost a fortune to develop, so we're keeping them!

3. They are capable of enormous damage if properly deployed.

We've never had to use them (We've NEARLY detonated A-bombs twice, but for a combination of Good RP and Tactical Viability, have held off at the last moment).

In closing, we regard Nuclear Weapons as a good thing, and anyone who disagrees can eat Radioactive Fiery Death! :D

OOC:I dont ignore that much. Future tech, Nukes, and God modders... Not exactly a picky list...

OOC:

ICly, nuclear weapons(mostly 1-5 kiloton ultra-clean tactical 'sub-nukes', but also larger strategic yeilds) are a vital part of forgine policy; with most of our defence spending going into building and maintaining a really kick-ass star navy, terrestrial forces have become rather neglected, and are in fact incapible of maintaining anything but a limited overseas deployment(my special forces, however, are quite spiffy, if under-utalised). It's a simple matter of limited force-projection.

When interacting with modern and near-future nations, I try and cull my tech advantage down to a bare minimum and even maintain 'atleast' two seperate orbital weapons platform networks, but it's still the same nation, and I won't ignore my spacetech sacrifice of a deccent army for a killer fleet, even if I can't use my star navy in RP with them.

Not sure if anyone has said this yet, but II is often referred to as the n00b forum. There isn't too much good RPing in here. The better stuff is in the NationStates forum. Nukes are practically never used, and when they are, they are generally the cause of the war. Very rarely are they used in conflict.

Not exactly sure if agree with that, I don't think II is a 'N00b' forum, there are a large amount of people who do take things seriously in here as far as I have observed. Though I would have to see if nukes are used less often there

How about this. Country's with nukes are bssiclly one step higher on the tech ladder than non nukes. For examplea n on nuke nation can refuse to fight a nuclear nation. Just as though the nuke nation is future tech. That way the losers who still want their nukes can have them and the rest of us can actully have some real wars

Couldn't agree more. I'm tired of all the nations who love to wipe out entire nations with their carpet nukes. They're just using them without thinking of the consequences. Ignorant and foolish if you ask me.

I know. IC, Feline has no WMDs. OOC, I will never make it have WMDs. They screw up roleplay. Any wars I get into, I make it clear that I will not have nuclear weapons involved on a tactical scale, and I have a huge missile defense system that has fortunately never had to be used. to deal with ICBM attacks.

As for the II/NS things, I prefer to put peaceful roleplays in NS, and war RPs in II. Also, storefronts go in II, anything else goes in NS. That's just how I do it, though.

How about this. Country's with nukes are bssiclly one step higher on the tech ladder than non nukes. For examplea n on nuke nation can refuse to fight a nuclear nation. Just as though the nuke nation is future tech. That way the losers who still want their nukes can have them and the rest of us can actully have some real wars I have a problem with this... Im a non nuke nation, But I consider myself to be 'Near' Future tech... I use Nuclear power as well, simply not for Arms. I would hate to think im 'Primative' for not using Nukes...

No.

In the age where battleships are nearly 1km long, and subs can dive thousands of feet below the waves, we're not about to give up our doctrine of tactical nuclear weapons (Less than 5kt, usually 1kt or less). When people parade their big huge ships with enough armor and defenses to deflect 99% of conventional weapons, I can either get one of my handful of railgun equipped subs, or launch a tacnuke at them. Or do both. Nuclear weapons are a fact of warfare. Deal with it.

I would hate to think im 'Primative' for not using Nukes...I'm sure that there are also nations who would hate to think that they are 'primitive' for not using rifles.